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Thursday, November 16, 2023

MLB owners give Fisher green light to leave Oakland, move A’s to Las Vegas

After 56 seasons, Major League Baseball has given up on the Oakland Athletics.

The election that A’s fans have anticipated and dreaded for months took place Thursday morning and, as expected, MLB owners voted 30-0 to approve owner John Fisher’s plan to relocate his franchise to Las Vegas.

The owners, tired of the exhaustive A’s stadium search and desperate for commissioner Rob Manfred to consummate a deal, were ready to vote “yes” on ending the A’s time in Oakland, which would create an extremely lucrative one-team market for the San Francisco Giants.

The A’s moved from Philadelphia to Kansas City to Oakland and are headed to their fourth city. They are committed to just one more year at the Coliseum before their lease expires, and because Fisher doesn’t expect to open his dream house on the Strip until 2028, an interim home for the team will be necessary for at least three seasons.

Will it be the Coliseum with a belatedly negotiated lease extension? Or as part-time tenants at Oracle Park? Or Summerlin, Nev., home of the A’s Triple-A team? Or a location to be determined later?

Eventually, Major League Baseball and the A’s will sort out that important detail. For now, Fisher can be assured that his fellow billionaires and team owners have his back and support his abandoning Northern California and playing ball in the desert.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 16, 2023 at 09:27 AM | 50 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: athletics, las vegas

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1. The Duke Posted: November 16, 2023 at 09:47 AM (#6147339)

They really need to find a new home for the interim. I have to think there would be a city with a decent ballpark that would take them for three years. Nashville, Charlotte, Montreal, Sacramento.

Jacksonville has a nice AAA park

2. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 16, 2023 at 09:48 AM (#6147340)

If they're going to let them play in a AAA park, doesn't Vegas already have one?

3. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 16, 2023 at 10:10 AM (#6147343)

The A’s told MLB they plan to play in a revolving series of sites until they move, one MLB owner told USA TODAY Sports on the condition of anonymity because MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred has yet to publicly address the plans. They will play games in Summerlin, Nevada, home of the A’s Triple-A team, Oracle Park in San Francisco, where the San Francisco Giants play, and perhaps also the Coliseum.

It's official: Oakland Athletics' move to Las Vegas unanimously approved by MLB owners

4. The Duke Posted: November 16, 2023 at 10:41 AM (#6147347)

RR, can you put up a hot stove omnichatter ?

5. The Duke Posted: November 16, 2023 at 10:52 AM (#6147348)

The padres AAA team has a 10000 capacity in El Paso Texas but that's a long way from west coast . The Albuquerque isotopes have a park that holds 13000

The As AAA team in Vegas holds 10k but I'm betting they don't want to bring their crappy MLB team to Vegas right away

6. DL from MN Posted: November 16, 2023 at 11:20 AM (#6147349)

Play part time in Puerto Rico like the Expos did.

7. Jay Seaver Posted: November 16, 2023 at 11:50 AM (#6147351)

The Coliseum does not currently appear to have a naming-rights deal. If the stadium authority were to rename it the "Screw John Fisher Coliseum" for the upcoming season, would the league have any recourse to try and force broadcasters, newspapers, etc., to call its something else?

8. The Duke Posted: November 16, 2023 at 11:51 AM (#6147352)

From Drellich:

Nothing was decided today as to where A's play in 2025-27, sources said. Possibilities include staying at the Oakland Coliseum, going to Triple-A Sacramento's stadium, among others. (Oakland mayor Sheng Thao has made clear there would be conditions to staying at the Coliseum)

9. Traderdave

Posted: November 16, 2023 at 01:05 PM (#6147357)

Fisher can "Go Elsewhere & Copulate."

Be the Spiders 2.0 and play 162 on the road. Play at the goddamned Vegas Greyhound station for all I care, but Fu@k Off ASAP.

Latest indignity: https://www.si.com/mlb/athletics/column/john-fisher-to-as-fans-its-been-worse-for-me-than-for-you

10. A triple short of the cycle

Posted: November 16, 2023 at 01:32 PM (#6147361)

The owners, tired of the exhaustive A’s stadium search

Won't someone please think of the poor exhausted owners?

11. Walt Davis Posted: November 16, 2023 at 01:44 PM (#6147363)

Move them to N Carolina. Must be 20 minor-league parks spread across the state, one's guaranteed to be available on any given day. Sure, most of them are probably 80 years old and carry names like War Memorial where you'll want to double-check to make sure which war is being memorialized but supply is no problem. (Not that it's a serious idea but DBAP and Charlotte both have 10,000 capacity.)

12. JJ1986 Posted: November 16, 2023 at 01:53 PM (#6147364)

The Zebulon A's.

13. Traderdave

Posted: November 16, 2023 at 01:57 PM (#6147365)

Somewhat serious question:

Whose is more detestable, Fisher of Art Modell?

14. The Duke Posted: November 16, 2023 at 02:26 PM (#6147369)

I don't think you can move them East. Road trips are set up to minimize travel, you can't have someone going on LAA-OAK-SEA trip and the Oakland games being played on East coast

I thought the same - Charlotte or Nashville - but they need to find a west coast home. I suspect it will be Sacramento, Oakland or San Fran. Vancouver could work too. Portland could work if it's finally stopped burning.

15. sanny manguillen Posted: November 16, 2023 at 02:39 PM (#6147371)

There's a nice-sized corn growing area just east of the Bay Area. They could just move from cornfield to cornfield.

16. GregD Posted: November 16, 2023 at 02:53 PM (#6147374)

First F** John Fisher. Piece of garbage. And his lying assistants, too.

Second how does posting up to Sacramento work? I mean the River Cats aren't big league or even an especially strong minor-league franchise but still they have a high-profile owner. Does adding the As there destroy the team? There's zero chance that Vivek lets that happen or that anyone in the city has the juice to make that happen over his objections; for one thing, he controls the Kings.

So even if it was like Fisher pays a lot of money for access to a 10,000 seat ballpark and gets MLB to work the schedule around the River Cats needs, won't this in the mid-run devalue the River Cats value? You'd assume their attendance would drop while the As are there (that money can compensate) but also might not rebound when the As leave.

I could imagine this more easily in a place that 1) lost its minor-league team or 2) had a very disempowered minor-league team owner relative to the empowered stadium owner/controller. But jamming it into a functioning, reasonably ambitious minor-league franchise's park seems to be a thing every minor league team would fight like hell to avoid

17. The Duke Posted: November 16, 2023 at 03:08 PM (#6147376)

My guess is that three rich entities: fisher, mlb and the Sacramento guy could all figure out how to profit. It's free money. I'm sure someone is interested

18. The Duke Posted: November 16, 2023 at 03:33 PM (#6147377)

For those complaining about Fisher only , note how quickly the state of Wisconsin got the brewers deal done. Fisher may be an ass, but it takes two to tango. In fact, look how fast the Vegas deal got done. When two people want the same thing, it usually gets arranged pretty quickly.

19. Traderdave

Posted: November 16, 2023 at 03:35 PM (#6147378)

For those complaining about Fisher only , note how quickly the state of Wisconsin got the brewers deal done. Fisher may be an ass, but it takes two to tango. In fact, look how fast the Vegas deal got done. When two people want the same thing, it usually gets arranged pretty quickly

.

1) Oakland offered more money than Vegas
2) #### you.

20. Mayor Blomberg Posted: November 16, 2023 at 03:42 PM (#6147379)

19 - Indeed; the article you linked is brutal:

The A's potential relocation has not gone smoothly in any regard, but at some point it has to be the fault of the guy at the top, right? A's owner John Fisher has spent 18 years saying the team was going to move to Fremont or San Jose or Laney College before finally settling upon Howard Terminal not long before Covid hit. Instead of trying to build a ballpark, Fisher wanted to build an empire.
In Las Vegas he is getting a ballpark, but it will be on rented property. No surrounding development. None of the frills that were mandatory in Oakland. Just one crappy ballpark that has already changed sites once and has left the public waiting on renderings that the team doesn't consider trash. Those trash renderings were just used to secure $380 million from the Nevada legislature.

Aside from which I'd assume land prices are higher on Oakland than Vegas

21. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: November 16, 2023 at 06:04 PM (#6147391)

Play part time in Puerto Rico like the Expos did.

Play part time in Montreal, like the Expos did!

22. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: November 16, 2023 at 06:09 PM (#6147393)

The A's moved about 1,000 miles from Philly to KC, and then about 1,500 miles to Oakland. So, their next location should be about 2,000 miles from Oakland...Anchorage, Alaska!

ALA'SKA!

23. Walt Davis Posted: November 16, 2023 at 06:18 PM (#6147394)

I like it but Honolulu is about 2400 miles (exponential!) Next stop Tokyo and the A's will eventually be the first team on the moon.

24. Walt Davis Posted: November 16, 2023 at 06:19 PM (#6147395)

Anyway, there is clearly nothing more important to Rob Manfred than tradition and therefore the A's should be forced to play in the Raiders' stadium.

25. base ball chick Posted: November 16, 2023 at 06:33 PM (#6147397)

gregD and traderdave

- i am SO sorry for the loss of your baseball team

fisher is a lying (LOTS of swear words. all of then B A D)

26. Hombre Brotani

Posted: November 16, 2023 at 07:44 PM (#6147402)

People should take it easy with John Fisher. He worked very hard to be born to incredible wealth, so he deserves to destroy your happiness.

27. Booey Posted: November 16, 2023 at 08:58 PM (#6147405)

If they're not going to relocate to SLC (I never really thought we had a chance), this is the next best option. Super excited about the prospect of finally having an MLB team close enough to drive to for weekend trips.

(I guess technically I have driven to Denver, San Diego, and Seattle to watch a game, but this is obviously far superior)

28. GGIAS (aka Poster Nutbag) Posted: November 16, 2023 at 09:08 PM (#6147406)

Force em to play in Fresno

29. Doug Jones threw harder than me Posted: November 16, 2023 at 11:06 PM (#6147411)

It's quite hard to take. I have seen so many A's games in person, listened to them on the radio every chance I could get. How many closing days have I been to when, the A's out of the playoffs, the somber tone in the crowd was so hard to take, yet necessary.

Not sure whether I will be able to stomache going to another game, even if to say goodbye.

Fisher...well, I hope he falls into the Gap.

30. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick

Posted: November 17, 2023 at 08:00 AM (#6147424)

I lived in Berkeley for a few months in 1969 and 1971, and I must have gone to over a dozen A's games, including the final game of the 1971 ALCS. Of the 2 dozen+ ballparks I've been in, the Coliseum was somewhere in the middle, kind of like a poor man's version of the Orioles' Memorial Stadium, with the difference being that the A's never had an owner who either invested in the stadium or gave two ##### about the fans. But on a lazy Sunday afternoon during the height of the Swingin' A's era it was a great place to be, way better than Candlestick.

31. JL72 Posted: November 17, 2023 at 12:34 PM (#6147452)

The Coliseum does not currently appear to have a naming-rights deal. If the stadium authority were to rename it the "Screw John Fisher Coliseum" for the upcoming season, would the league have any recourse to try and force broadcasters, newspapers, etc., to call its something else?

I would chip in $50 to help get those naming rights.

32. DL from MN Posted: November 17, 2023 at 01:29 PM (#6147458)

I can't see the A's displacing an affiliated minor league team, even temporarily. The stadiums with the biggest capacity that don't currently have an MLB or affiliated minor league team are:

Omaha - 24,000 - would have to vacate during the College World Series
Puerto Rico - 18,264
Starkville, MS - 15,000
Tucson, AZ - 11,000
New Orleans, LA - 11,000

One strong possibility is just staying at their spring training facility in Mesa, AZ. That seats 13,000.

33. Who's ever heard of a snozzberry? Posted: November 18, 2023 at 12:31 AM (#6147520)

All I have to say is the the wrong owner died.

34. McCoy Posted: November 18, 2023 at 08:40 AM (#6147531)

Couldn't they just use the stadium in KC? There's currently no major league team using it.

35. Doug Jones threw harder than me Posted: November 18, 2023 at 01:57 PM (#6147551)

I sure hope the Giants don't let the A's play at Oracle or whatever it's named. And I hope, if they do, no one shows up.

Actually, I hope no one shows up for any of their games next year, or any of the subsequent years.

Next year, in fact, it could happen. The 12,000 die-hards that continued to show up next year may not. Who else will?

After that, unless they go to Las Vegas, where else would they get fans? It's not like the A's as currently constructed play an especially exciting form of baseball, and they WILL lose a lot of games.

Have you ever imagine if they "threw a baseball season and nobody came". That might happen.

36. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: November 18, 2023 at 06:01 PM (#6147569)

Might this put Oakland in the running for the next expansion team? It worked for Seattle and KC. And the bay area has got to be the richest part of the country. (I don't know if A's territory reverts to the Giants or something, but an expansion team is going to have to encroach on someone's territory.)

37. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 18, 2023 at 07:13 PM (#6147571)

It worked for Seattle and KC.

And Washington, DC, although with an unconscionably longer wait.

38. DFA Posted: November 19, 2023 at 12:26 AM (#6147607)

Not that it means much, but a big sorry to all the A's fans out there. This absolutely sucks, and it's disappointing MLB allowed this to happen. When I was in elementary school, the Colts left Baltimore robbing me of being a football fan. Thinking of those Oakland second graders...

39. Walt Davis Posted: November 19, 2023 at 01:46 PM (#6147628)

Recent analogies ... the Milw Braves drew 2 M a year at their peak. That had dropped to about 1 M (still middle of the pack) when they started looking for offers in 1962. Attendance dropped further until the move to Atl was announced. Court injunctions kept them in Milw for 1965 and they drew just half a million (thanks Wiki!) Note, Atlanta had tried to steal the A's from KC first.

I forget exactly which years Montreal was under MLB's ownership but attendance had already dropped badly by 1998 (<1 M), dropped some more but bounced back a couple of times. Not too disastrous, never worse than 650 K.

The A's official figure last year was 833 K and obviously that's going to get worse. If there is some AAA city out there with enthusiastic fans hankering for MLB, it could actually work as well or better than 2-3 more seasons in Oakland.

My brief take on the Coliseeum from my one visit. Without the Raiders moonstrosity, there would have been a lovely view of the hills. An old stadium with limited modern amenities but convenient and a pleasant spot on a late summer's night.

40. DL from MN Posted: November 19, 2023 at 02:17 PM (#6147631)

Might this put Oakland in the running for the next expansion team?

I see AAA baseball as a more likely scenario. The Saints are doing well in the Twin Cities as a AAA affiliate.

41. sunday silence (again) Posted: November 19, 2023 at 04:03 PM (#6147634)

the Milw Braves drew 2 M a year at their peak. That had dropped to about 1 M (still middle of the pack) when they started looking for offers in 1962.

Why did it drop so precipitously? They finished second place in both 59 and 60 and attendance kept falling. Everyone says if you win fans will show up but in smaller markets it seems that only lasts for so long (except KC). What else was happening?

42. Walt Davis Posted: November 19, 2023 at 04:23 PM (#6147638)

By the way, the Milwaukee Braves never had a losing record. So I suppose 86 wins didn't turn them on too much.

In Milwaukee's case, the question should probably not so much be "why were they only drawing 1 M in the early 60s?" but "how in the hell did they ever draw 2 M?" It was a metro area of only about 1-1.2 M population in the mid-late 50s so, on average, nearly 2 tix sold per person. That's absurd. Milw was first in attendance very year from 53-58 then fell just to 2nd. Crazy for a small market. When they fell to 5th in attendance in 1961, they still easily outdrew the Cubs and Phils, also slightly the O's and Red Sox and easily the Angels.

"The fans will come if you win" is not the same as "masses of people will move there and double your market size."

43. Where have you gone Brady Anderson? Posted: November 19, 2023 at 04:42 PM (#6147641)

The Giants Double A team is currently located in Virginia. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Giants tried to move them to the Bay Area, it would certainly be much convenient geographically.

44. Walt Davis Posted: November 19, 2023 at 11:40 PM (#6147662)

Couldn't they just use the stadium in KC? There's currently no major league team using it.

Not true, 20-21 MLB teams used it just last year.

45. .

Posted: November 20, 2023 at 10:23 AM (#6147679)

"The fans will come if you win" is not the same as "masses of people will move there and double your market size."

An accurate maxim which applies multi-fold to Vegas. Baseball has virtually no chance to survive in that market. You can get by in hockey with a rabid core fan base of 20-30 thousand people and Vegas obviously has that. Football is sui generis and Vegas is an easy drive from the Raiders' massive fanbase in the LA area anyway. Neither are comps.

There aren't even any real stadium plans; the preliminary sketches sound massively underwhelming, and the market is tiny. Fisher's plan is likely to just flip the team and MLB's play is the intentional punishment of cities that won't play the stadium subsidy game as per MLB demands -- much like the NBA with Seattle. For the corporate welfare game to work its best, you sometimes have to drop the hammer for its own sake lest the next municipality get uppity -- even, as here, when it doesn't make sense even on its own terms.

The whole thing is just gross and disgusting. Completely soulless.

46. DL from MN Posted: November 20, 2023 at 10:55 AM (#6147683)

The Giants Double A team is currently located in Virginia. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Giants tried to move them to the Bay Area, it would certainly be much convenient geographically.

What league would they play in? There isn't a Double-A team west of Texas. The options for minor league baseball in California are the Pacific Coast League (AAA) and the California League (A). I can't see Las Vegas continuing to support AAA baseball after the Athletics arrive so that is one PCL team that will need to relocate. The best options are Portland, New Orleans and Oakland.

47. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: November 20, 2023 at 12:05 PM (#6147692)

You can get by in hockey with a rabid core fan base of 20-30 thousand people and Vegas obviously has that.

Ah, but Vegas has never had a prolonged period of losing either to test the resolve of their fanbase. They were gifted an elite roster in their expansion draft and have missed the playoffs in only one of their six seasons, and even that one "down" year was bookended by playoff runs of losing in the conference finals and winning the cup.

48. Doug Jones threw harder than me Posted: November 20, 2023 at 05:41 PM (#6147748)

I could imagine that the A's will play in Vegas. I imagine the A's farm team will have to relocate. They won't relocate to Oakland. Brownsville, TX?

I wonder how many fans the A's will get before they build their stadium? 13,000? That will be laughable.

49. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: November 20, 2023 at 05:55 PM (#6147749)

I wonder how many fans the A's will get before they build their stadium? 13,000? That will be laughable.

That would be more than the A's have averaged since 2019.

50. Howie Menckel Posted: November 20, 2023 at 06:11 PM (#6147751)

They were gifted an elite roster in their expansion draft

to be fair, the Golden Knights owners BOUGHT an elite roster by paying $500 million as their expansion fee - marking the first time a new NHL team paid more than $80 million.

it's an interesting idea - set up a sliding scale where the more you're willing to stuff into our pockets up front, the better the team roster you get right out of the gate.

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Thursday, November 16, 2023

MLB owners give Fisher green light to leave Oakland, move A’s to Las Vegas

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