The Jays have announced that they've severed all ties with Alomar and are removing him from the Level of Excellence and taking down his Hall of Fame banner at Skydome.

Doesn't say what he did, but given the severity of the reaction it must have been borderline (at least) criminal.

I'll just say that this one may have a plot twist unexpected by many.

Read between the lines: Howie is hinting that Alomar molested John Hirschbeck.

I'll just say that this one may have a plot twist unexpected by many.

Is it that Alomar harassed another man? Because I think that's what many are expecting.

what the actual hell, man.

I'll just say that this one may have a plot twist unexpected by many.


Is it that Alomar harassed another man? Because I think that's what many are expecting.

There was that weird lawsuit years ago from a woman alleging that Alomar gave her HIV or AIDS, is that related?

#5, there are articles stating that his accuser is a female.

Attorney Lisa Banks, who represents the woman who made the allegation against Alomar, released a statement about the "brave step" her client took and thanked MLB for taking action.

"My client commends other baseball industry survivors who have come forward, and who helped her feel safer in sharing her own terrible and life-altering experience," Banks said.

Banks added that the woman did not plan to sue or take further action and that she "simply wants to ensure Mr. Alomar is held accountable for his wrongdoing."

"baseball industry survivors"

Leave Gregg Jefferies alone.

There was that weird lawsuit years ago from a woman alleging that Alomar gave her HIV or AIDS, is that related?

no, that was Tim Tebow

Tebow alleged Alomar gave him HIV or AIDS?

There was that weird lawsuit years ago from a woman alleging that Alomar gave her HIV or AIDS, is that related?

I assume not, as that was an ex-girlfriend whose was not anonymous -- she filed a civil suit against him. (He was also accused of domestic violence by his ex-wife.)

The current accusations are supposedly from someone who works in baseball.

The Jays have announced that they've severed all ties with Alomar and are removing him from the Level of Excellence and taking down his Hall of Fame banner at Skydome.

Will Alomar be the first player kicked out of the Baseball Hall of Fame? (It's already happened in hockey.)

HOF rescinded? What do you want to bet Pete Rose will use that as a point in a future interview to ask why is he banned.

HOF has already announced that they aren’t kicking him out.

The Eagleson NHL HoF example points a way forward for the MLB HoF -- mainly that the NHL HoF (a) waited until he was convicted (pled guilty) and (b) waited until several HoF players -- including Bobby Orr, Bobby Hull and Gordie Howe -- asked for him to be booted (or they would boot themselves). But yes, it would seem a big deal from the HoF standpoint that he is beyond persona non grata and actually on the ineligible list.

It's early days, I wouldn't put much stock in the HoF's announcement.

It's early days, I wouldn't put much stock in the HoF's announcement.

They (nor the BBWAA) never took any action to strip Conlin of the Spink Award.

#17 Worth noting that the Eagleson case was personal. Many of the hall of famers from the mid-60 and 70s were Eagleson client that he'd stolen from. They'd testified against him and many had sued him.

Nobody doubted Brad Park was serious when he said, him or me (Park was the public face of the stand against Eagleson). Or doubted that he was speaking for many others. And the hall relies on the hofers showing up for certain key events.

If a sizeable number of hofers speak out against Alomar then I'd expect the HOF to take action. Not otherwise.

The hockey HOF also booted Gil Stein but that one was easy. He had in effect bribed some of the electors. Board members vote for builders. Stein appointed some people to the board in exchange for promises to vote for him.

The current accusations are supposedly from someone who works in baseball..

There are reports that a civil suit is in the works, so presumably more details will emerge when it’s filed, if not before.

They (nor the BBWAA) never took any action to strip Conlin of the Spink Award.

Yes, the Spink award is an honor, but compared to Hall of Fame players the winners are virtually anonymous. A player is a whole other story--quite literally, it's a completely different news story that may not allow itself to be simply ignored. It's a lot easier to point at precedent and wait for the story to go away when hardly anyone knows about it.

Yes, the Spink award is an honor, but compared to Hall of Fame players the winners are virtually anonymous. A player is a whole other story--quite literally, it's a completely different news story that may not allow itself to be simply ignored.

On the other hand, it's doubtful the accusations against Alomar are more disturbing to the general public than ones lodged against Conlin.

Given the Hall's history, I would be surprised if it took any steps to boot Alomar (which would just open the door for campaigns to oust Cap Anson, Kirby Puckett and others), absent some kind of "him or us" stand from fellow players Ron mentions.

It really depends on what ALomar actually did, or rather actually found guilty of, right? I mean we can imagine cringeworthy crimes that might rise to such a level.

Given the Hall's history, I would be surprised if it took any steps to boot Alomar (which would just open the door for campaigns to oust Cap Anson, Kirby Puckett and others), absent some kind of "him or us" stand from fellow players Ron mentions.

I'm pretty sure they don't want to open Pandora's box. Given standards of conduct in the past, would it really be shocking if some highly regarded player had aggressively propositioned a woman or used words that are currently taboo? Set the precedent of removal, and you encourage a witch hunt.

They (nor the BBWAA) never took any action to strip Conlin of the Spink Award.

Which was 10 years ago and Conlin was never convicted (or as far as I know charged) with anything. He was also 77 at the time and conveniently died about 2 years after the allegations.

British actor/producer/director Noel Clarke was just accused by 20 women of sexual harassment and bullying. Within a day, the final episode of his current hit miniseries was withdrawn before airing. His top-rated TV series was cancelled. He was just given a special BAFTA (the Brit academy) and the chair of the BAFTAs had this to say:

“People will say, ‘Bafta knew, and didn’t do anything about it.’ We’ve been trying to do something about it,” Majumdar told one intermediary. “In the court of public opinion we are going to be … this will destroy us.”

(Apparently BAFTA was aware of some of the allegations beforehand, did reach out to the women involved, they declined to speak to BAFTA ... so BAFTA went ahead with the award which may not have been the best idea. But as far as I know, they haven't yet said they're taking the award back, whatever that might mean. And I suspect the chair is overstating things.)

Now of course almost nobody in the US cares about the HoF, Alomar wasn't much of a household name to begin with and retired over 15 years ago and it remains to be seen whether any HOFers are sufficiently aware and concerned enough to call for his ouster so in all likelihood this will not become a major story outside of (or even inside of) baseball. Or some folks will decide this is a big deal or (given how these episodes often go) more women will come forward, the HoF will come under increasing pressure and will change its position. But it's also the case that those suspended for domestic violence have been welcomed back into baseball without major public turmoil so there's a good chance this story will fade away too.

Again, MLB didn't just fire the guy and let teams know he's blackballed, they actually put him on the ineligible list. As far as I know, Chad Curtis, Luis Polonia and Mel Hall aren't on the ineligible list and they were all convicted. Times have changed.

Polonia got 60 days and a $1500 fine after pleading the charge down to a misdemeanor in 1989; Curtis got only 7 to 15 years in 2013 and is already out on parole; Hall got 45 years and won't be eligible for parole for another 10 years. Polonia played for another 10 years and was inducted into the Caribbean HoF. The judge actually postponed the sentincing until after the season ended. About Polonia, Yankees manager Dallas Green said: "It's a shame to see that happen. It's a personal thing. All you can do is warn people. You can't live their lives."

Times have changed. Not as much as we'd like but Green would at least have to pretend to have a smidgen of empathy for the victim.

I think Alomar will remain in the HOF unless MLB decides they want him removed, or unless there is an actual criminal conviction. Right now the only people who know what Alomar was actually accused of are MLB and those directly involved in the case. Players aren’t going to advocate for his removal without knowing more details, so unless MLB decides to share those details or pressure the HOF to remove him, I think he’ll stay.

EDIT: Having read the story, it doesnt seem like a criminal case is even pending. So its kind of odd to suspend someone merely on one person's account, but I guess there's more there.

A trial in the court of public opinion is much more likely to gain a conviction, and be much more costly for the accused, than a criminal case, if it's about sexual misconduct. And "one person's account" but there could have been (a) witness(es) to the act(s) that were uncovered and gave corroboration to the investigation, or (b) a submission of evidence supporting the accusation.

Added: Or (c) the accusation was brought by one person, but during the investigation more people testified that they had seen similar conduct like the accusation, so that went in the report.

The fact that the Blue Jays are cutting ties with him is a huge deal.

He was the most popular Blue Jays alumni, and the only one inducted into the HOF with a Jays cap.
His number was one of two retired (with the late Roy Halladay).

They disowned him immediately, so whatever evidence/information was presented to them by MLB must have been substantial/convincing.

His public statement has the weird phrasing of "With the current social climate, I understand why Major League Baseball has taken the position they have."

I was a big Halladay fan but....

he had morphine, amphetamines, Ambien, Prozac, and a trace of alcohol in his system when he crashed his plane - risking the lives of countless people with his recklessness. or am I missing something?

(and if the "trace of alcohol" sounds like nothing, he violated FAA rules with his dosage and let's just say I doubt they helped his drugs cocktail any).

the Blue Jays seemingly are cool with that - so what the hell did Alomar do?

Obvious difference is Halladay may have endangered many, but it was a single seat aircraft, and only he died.
Alomar's accused of harming another person.

Alomar was accused by another person who worked in baseball, so his misconduct likely came in the context of his work within the game. I think that’s also an important distinction. Halladay’s recklessness, whatever you may think of it, was purely extracurricular.*

The severity of MLB’s reaction, when there was literally no public awareness of the accusations or pressure on them to do anything, makes me think their investigation revealed some pretty bad stuff.

* And if Halladay had crashed his plane into a busload of children, the reaction might have been different.

[29] That was my reaction. Audible gasp.
For the Jays to cut ties with Robbie Alomar, it must have been an awful transgression. Or at least awful looking.

Indeed franchise icon. There are few that have one so clearly. Although maybe Joe Carter is in the conversation? (Different conversation, not changing subject. And it helps to have only started in 1977.)

I guess the Alomar details will come out in time. I gave a few reasons [28] how/why it happened, but I don't want to speculate with examples.

RTG: Glad to hear you got a vaccine, from the other thread. Mrs Snowboy & I are still too young and good looking, in this region, but we'll get it eventually. My niece is a nurse, and has been giving it in London and Mt. Brydges.

those are legitimate pushbacks, but - is it ok re Halladay because he didn't actually crash into the busload of children?

we don't know what Alomar's actions were, and their direct impact on people.

but to this point, I'm a little surprised at the possible dichotomy.

if he was a Calloway-like creep, then that's awful and extremely upsetting to anyone who was on the other end of such creepiness.

taking a plane off the ground in an "altered state" in a very non-remote region, though - and it's ok because luckily no one else got killed and it's all good because the offending athlete died?'

I dunno.

For the Jays to cut ties with Robbie Alomar, it must have been an awful transgression.

Well, that may depend on how such things are defined. If this was a hostile environment sexual harassment situation, the Blue Jays would only be liable if they knew or should have known of the harassment. However, once they were informed of the allegations and an investigation supported the claims, they were obligated to take prompt & effective corrective action. So firing Alomar might be the best way for the Blue Jays to limit their own liability. Now, we don’t know for sure that this was a hostile environment sexual harassment situation, but what we do know is so far consistent with how such cases are often handled, at least by legally sophisticated employers. It wouldn’t necessarily have to be the most severe forms of harassment to cause an employer to fire a harasser, so whether this fits the definition of ‘awful transgression’, may be somewhat subjective.

In any event, Halladay & Alomar are already in the Hall. There isn’t a process for removing Hall of Famers, and I wouldn’t lightly go down the path of creating one.

Well, as I understand it, MLB is replete with Calloway-level creeps as well as DUI offenders. So I’m assuming what Alomar did was worse than either of those things for him to be put on the ineligible list (but not so bad that MLB would feel obligated to involve law enforcement?). I don’t want to speculate as to what that might be.

Alternatively, perhaps MLB just decided that now is the time to take a firmer stand on workplace sexual harassment, and that Alomar would be the right guy to make an example of. That seems less likely to me, but we don’t know.

Without out knowing what he's accused of and the strength of the evidence, yeah, it's impossible to guess what will happen in this specific case. That being said, there are absolutely things a Hall of Famer could do that would be despicable enough to get him removed, even though there are no rules for it. Domestic violence or sexual harassment probably aren't on that list, but I don't think it takes much imagination to come up with a few offenses that would be if proven.

As for the lack of outcry at Halladay's bloodwork, I'm not really that surprised. He ultimately didn't injure anyone else and society seems to have a sort of sympathetic impulse towards addicts who manage to maintain a public appearance of functionality as long as they don't actually kill or maim anyone. Probably because so many people medicate themselves--legally or not--just to get through their day.

(Apparently BAFTA was aware of some of the allegations beforehand, did reach out to the women involved, they declined to speak to BAFTA ... so BAFTA went ahead with the award which may not have been the best idea. But as far as I know, they haven't yet said they're taking the award back, whatever that might mean. And I suspect the chair is overstating things.)

They've actually said that they've "suspended" the award, whatever that means.

After this article was published, Bafta updated its statement. “In light of the Guardian’s piece, which for Bafta provided for the first time detailed accounts outlining serious allegations regarding Noel Clarke’s conduct, we have immediately suspended the award and Noel Clarke’s membership of Bafta until further notice.”

Snowboy: Glad to have gotten the vaccine. I had planned to remain unvaccinated until July based on the vaccination rates/ages as recently as early April, so to get my first shot before the end of the month was a surprise. My wife gets all the credit for signing us up to multiple lists and making phone calls.

The Halladay situation is that he was so revered as a Blue Jays player that when the toxicology report (and stories) came out, most fans just chocked it up to "pain killer addiction" that hits a lot of athletes.
Obviously, if he killed more than himself (like Jose Fernandez), then the response might have been different.

(Side note: There was more "pain" in Jays fandom when Halladay's wife seemed to make the arbitrary decision for Roy to go in without a logo on his cap. He has said specifically (in an earlier interview after retiring) that he'd go in with a Jays cap. Of course, no one wants to get angry at a grieving widow, so it just simmers for now.)