Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Saturday, February 22, 2020

MLB was told about the Astros’ system years ago and did nothing

Jonathan Lucroy plays for the Red Sox now. Yesterday he talked to the Boston media about his time in Oakland. Specifically, he talked about how, when he played there, he and the rest of the A’s learned about the specifics of the Astros’ sign-stealing scheme from teammate Mike Fiers, who was traded to Oakland in August of that season.

Here’s what Lucroy said about what went down when he heard about Fiers going public in November:

“When I saw it, I read it and I’m like, ‘Oh boy, here we go. And people are calling me and I’m like, ‘Look, I’ve known about that for two years.’ Guys who were playing against them . . . I would text people and say, ‘Just so you know, this is what is going on.’ It got around baseball pretty quick.”

And it wasn’t just player-to-player chatter. The Oakland Athletics as a club reported it

*Decides to polish CV, in preparation for potential application for the position of Commissioner of Major League Baseball*

 

 

QLE Posted: February 22, 2020 at 12:36 AM | 24 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: coverups, dirty rotten cheaters, mlb

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. The Duke Posted: February 22, 2020 at 09:27 AM (#5925987)
WSJ has an article on crane and his prior business sleaze as well.

I’ve morphed into taking the title away. No mention of title in any team publicity, take down all banners and memorabilia, and no mention on any broadcast that the Astros won in 2017. They clearly cheated. I’d ask the union to demand the World Series money be returned and donated.

You can’t suspend or fine the players but if you ruin their achievement that is a powerful penalty

Manfred should be fired and the league should lean on crane to either sell or find a new general partner
   2. majorflaw Posted: February 22, 2020 at 10:40 AM (#5925992)
“ I’d ask the union to demand the World Series money be returned and donated.“

Suspension of respiration not advisable.


“ You can’t suspend or fine the players . . . “

Wouldn’t having to return their WS shares, roughly $430K at last check,

https://www.mlb.com/press-release/2017-postseason-shares-announced-262432566

amount to a fine?
   3. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: February 22, 2020 at 11:44 AM (#5925999)
Manfred should be fired

How would that affect his Hall of Fame chances?
   4. Lassus Posted: February 22, 2020 at 12:19 PM (#5926004)
The union should not support a "kill - I mean fine 'em all, let God sort it out" plan of action by MLB.
   5. TJ Posted: February 22, 2020 at 01:13 PM (#5926011)
Common knowledge in baseball of Amphetamine use MLB reaction- “We’re shocked, shocked I say, to discover players used greenies!”

Common knowledge of PED use in baseball. MLB reaction- “We’re shocked, shocked I say, to discover players used steroids!”

Common knowledge of using tech to steal signs. MLB reaction- “We’re shocked, shocked I say, to discover teams using live video to steal signs!”

This is why I have not joined the “strip the Astros of their title” camp. MLB had to at least suspect teams were doing this sort of thing. My baseball buddies surely did- we spoke at length while watching games on TV about how easy it would be to use video feed to steal signs. Most every broadcast showed players and coaches huddled around a tablet or monitor in the dugout at some point in the game. If MLB had a concern about really stopping the process, they could have at any time before 2019 issued an edict that no tech more advanced than the bullpen phone would be allowed outside of the clubhouse doors and any player found using something more advanced than JD Martinez’s little notebook during a game would be fined and suspended for 20 games or more. That would have stopped it. But MLB didn’t, so I feel the league administration carries at least as much blame as the Astros, Red Sox and every other team or players who were playing the cheating game.

It’s not like baseball didn’t already have a history of players and teams cheating six ways to Sunday if they though the league would let them get away with it.
   6. Dog on the sidewalk has an ugly bracelet Posted: February 22, 2020 at 02:12 PM (#5926022)
People wanting WS shares returned, is your goal to punish the people most actively involved or to bankrupt the fringe guys? Carlos Beltran can shrug off $400k. I'm guessing someone like Juan Centeno cannot.
   7. Walt Davis Posted: February 22, 2020 at 04:11 PM (#5926029)
#6: You'll note #1 said "lean on the union" (which is also a response to #2). I've suggested a few times that the Astros players and the union should have figured this out from the start and donated the money as a group as a PR gesture. The rich guys can cover for the guys who really need the money ($800 K also not a big deal for Beltran). Done collectively you don't know who paid and who didn't so hopefully Juan Centeno wouldn't have to put up with "you cheating bastard, you kept the money."

But no matter how you slice it, the team cheated, that cheating might have helped the Astros win the playoff bonuses, Centeno doesn't deserve that money any more than the rest of them (including the possibility that they all deserve everything they got). FWIW, looks like he was with the team for 2 months and the playoffs so I'm not sure he got a full share -- still a nice bonus relative to career earning. He's got just over 2 years service time so already up to about $1.2 M career earnings plus whatever bonus he got, whatever he's paid in the minors, etc.
   8. Dog on the sidewalk has an ugly bracelet Posted: February 22, 2020 at 06:03 PM (#5926032)
The Astros awarded 60 full shares, so I assume Centeno got one of them.

Anyway, I agree it's all ill-gotten gains. Just don't think it's reasonable to expect the fringe guys to be able to return their shares so long after the fact. No objection to what you suggested.
   9. Sunday silence Posted: February 22, 2020 at 08:22 PM (#5926039)
the fact that Manfred gave them immunity makes those shares sort of protected. I dont care about the money, just please do the right thing and strip the team that was cheating on a wholesale level w/ most of their position players for at least two seasons...Its just so far ahead of one guy doing something wrong for one game.
   10. Walt Davis Posted: February 22, 2020 at 08:55 PM (#5926041)
the fact that Manfred gave them immunity makes those shares sort of protected.

I think we are agreed that MLB will not be able to fine them or otherwise force them to rescind. They should volunteer to donate the money to a charity.
   11. Sunday silence Posted: February 23, 2020 at 10:35 AM (#5926075)
yes..but they seemed determined to unrepentent.
   12. Cris E Posted: February 23, 2020 at 03:55 PM (#5926100)
But as the dust appears to have settled, what is the impetus for any player not to keep cheating? Who cares what happens to management? There's not been a single step in their direction. If Manfred tries to make a huge deal out of it in the CBA it'll create a bad problem, making the union defend the bad behaviour just because they can't foresee how such a rule may eventually be employed. I say take a shot now against individual players, and use that mess as the grounds for a more focused conversation in CBA talks.
   13. Buck Coats Posted: February 23, 2020 at 04:11 PM (#5926104)
Well presumably the impetus will be management. If the manager and GM know that they'll be kicked out of baseball over this stuff, presumably they'll make sure the players don't do it?
   14. Ron J Posted: February 23, 2020 at 05:16 PM (#5926111)
#10 Not seeing any upside for the players in donating any bonuses.

Nothing short of ritual atonement is going to satisfy the critics.
   15. Walt Davis Posted: February 24, 2020 at 01:13 AM (#5926129)
#10 Not seeing any upside for the players in donating any bonuses.

Yes, at this point it's probably too late. If a donation had been announced along with the immediate firing of Luhnow and Hinch, it would have helped with the public (IMO) but possibly wouldn't have avoided the anger of other players.
   16. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: February 24, 2020 at 06:01 AM (#5926132)

Please spare me the faux outrage. Everyone knew about it, everyone was doing it. Except Chris Davis, who nobody could possibly think has any clue what pitch was coming at any point over the last three seasons.
   17. base ball chick Posted: February 24, 2020 at 01:57 PM (#5926204)
DMN

it would be REALLY bad if poor ol chris DID know what was coming and couldn't do anything more with it than i could
   18. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: February 24, 2020 at 05:35 PM (#5926255)
Paying back bonuses from 3 years ago is very difficult. Will the IRS give them back the taxes? Many people will have spent the money and have zero ability to pay it back.
   19. Mayor Blomberg Posted: February 25, 2020 at 01:59 AM (#5926288)
Will the IRS give them back the taxes?


File am amended return, certainly. I mean, not that it's gonna happen. At this point, just make sure the damned flag don't fly forevs.
   20. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 25, 2020 at 10:59 AM (#5926327)
The Astros franchise could always reimburse the league for the cost of the fraudulently-obtained playoff shares.
   21. jingoist Posted: February 26, 2020 at 09:48 AM (#5926493)
DMN
Do the Orioles plan to give Davis yet another chance to regain his lost skills in 2020?
His ongoing level of futility ranks right up there with a Steve Blass back in the 70’s.
   22. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: February 26, 2020 at 12:22 PM (#5926541)

Do the Orioles plan to give Davis yet another chance to regain his lost skills in 2020?
They're the Orioles. Of course they do.
   23. Ron J Posted: February 26, 2020 at 02:35 PM (#5926577)
Further to #22. They're also hoping Mike Cuellar has a good year. And yes, I know he died a decade ago.
   24. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: February 26, 2020 at 04:01 PM (#5926606)

Further to #22. They're also hoping Mike Cuellar has a good year. And yes, I know he died a decade ago.

Cross him off, then.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Adam M
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogBaseball Question of the Day: Which historical game would you want to see?
(34 - 2:16pm, Apr 04)
Last: phredbird

NewsblogUS-based pro sports leagues monitoring coronavirus outbreak
(4132 - 2:12pm, Apr 04)
Last: Howie Menckel

NewsblogBryce Harper, wife Kayla donate $500,000 to coronavirus relief
(21 - 1:51pm, Apr 04)
Last: SoSH U at work

NewsblogCoronavirus could cause $1 billion loss for NBA, NHL and MLB broadcasters, ad firm says
(2 - 1:50pm, Apr 04)
Last: JJ1986

NewsblogWho Would You Build an MLB Team Around in the 2020s?
(6 - 1:36pm, Apr 04)
Last: bbmck

Hall of Merit2021 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
(204 - 12:54pm, Apr 04)
Last: Dr. Chaleeko

NewsblogMLB Can't Afford to Come Back Too Soon
(23 - 12:43pm, Apr 04)
Last: "RMc", the superbatsman

NewsblogBaseball Question of the Day: What’s your favorite baseball movie?
(53 - 12:34pm, Apr 04)
Last: "RMc", the superbatsman

NewsblogTom Brady has arrived in Tampa Bay, moving into Derek Jeter’s mansion
(26 - 12:25pm, Apr 04)
Last: Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama

NewsblogOT - NBA Thread 2020
(2029 - 12:03pm, Apr 04)
Last: Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB)

NewsblogEvan Gattis says his 2017 Astros ‘cheated baseball and cheated fans’
(2 - 11:55am, Apr 04)
Last: majorflaw

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 1926 Discussion
(4 - 11:20am, Apr 04)
Last: DL from MN

NewsblogAn Activist and a Bookworm, Sean Doolittle Is the Conscience of Baseball
(20 - 10:51am, Apr 04)
Last: DonPedro

NewsblogMLB reportedly discussing a 100-game season that would include a neutral-site World Series at Dodger
(33 - 12:35am, Apr 04)
Last: Jay Z

NewsblogAJ Reed Announces Retirement
(1 - 10:47pm, Apr 03)
Last: Ziggy is done with Dominican discotheques

Page rendered in 0.3592 seconds
46 querie(s) executed