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Tuesday, January 19, 2010
Molina Signs 1-Year Deal To Stay With SF Giants
SLOW BREAKING NEWS!
In a surprising twist, Bengie Molina has signed a one-year, $4.5 million contract to stay with the San Francisco Giants, CBS 5 has learned.
Sources outlined terms of the deal Tuesday that keeps the free-agent catcher in a Giants uniform.
In recent weeks, the 35-year-old Molina - after expressing disappointment with the Giants franchise - was reportedly close to reaching a two-year deal with the New York Mets.
Repoz
Posted: January 19, 2010 at 10:13 PM | 224 comment(s)
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Just trade Posey now before you f-up his career.
Wow. Just . . . wow.
Talk about saving Omar from himself.
And the amazing thing is, these drawn-out negotiations were only the second-slowest thing about Bengie Molina.
Oh, wait. The really amazing thing is that the Giants actually have a catching prospect whom they shouldn't block by signing a meh player like Molina. You have to adore Sabean.
That's how ###### up this is.
Is it a comment on Benjie, or on the Mets?
Even moving at top speed, he couldn't get to New York before the start of the season, so he was kind of stuck.
It's funny when it's not your team.
I say, give Omar credit! He gave Molina a firm offer and never budged.
I guess he didn't worship Molina to nearly the extent supposed. It seems possible that he attached a fairly accurate value to Molina and just stayed at that number.
(Now let's watch him panic and do something nutty)
I feel bad for Posey, but screw him, he's not a Met.
I bet Ken Williams would listen to offers for AJ Pierzynski...
Wright to catch, Tatis to play third?
Shut your dirty mouth.
J.C. Martin!
Duffy Dyer!
Wes Westrum!
Choo Choo Friggin' Coleman!
I say line up the old-timers, 162 of them, and let 'em catch one game each. They'll drop like flies, but it'll be the greatest spectacle baseball has seen since Eddie Gaedel.
I'm not actually sure about this. Molina is reliably mediocre and a stupid fat ####. BUt he is reliable. If they go into camp with a Santos/Thole/Blanco competition for the starting spot there is a real possibility of the position being a gaping <650 OPS wound all season long.
I'm telling you, AJ Pieryznski.
Wait a minute isn't signing a meh player like Molina cheaply is what you are supposed to do when you have a catching prospect entering the majors?
If Posey falls flat on his face you have a veteran around who can take over quickly and if Posey has a good season you have someone who you can use to limit his innings behind the plate.
And on a one year deal you aren't locked into the downward spiral like the Mets would have been.
Can you say, "Rod Barajas"? I knew you could . . . .
They could have signed Jason Bay for the money they blew on crappy free agents this year.
If Posey falls flat on his face you have a veteran around who can take over quickly and if Posey has a good season you have someone who you can use to limit his innings behind the plate.
This would be awesome if the Giants had signed Molina as Posey-fails insurance. But there is no way on Earth Molina signed there, with a starting job his for the taking in New York, unless Sabean gave explicit assurances that he would start in San Francisco. This wasn't done to have Molina as a failsafe. This was done to delay Posey for another year.
And on a one year deal you aren't locked into the downward spiral.
I take it you are not familiar with the conduct of one Bengie Molina last August & September, 2009.
Molina is a godawful baserunner and a sub-par defensive catcher. I wouldn't be surprised if Blanco's just as valuable.
And not only that, but he'll hit cleanup. Sigh.
It's possible. But it also seems that if you start Blanco there is a 50% chance of the media/blogosphere/FAN/etc demanding a move 6 weeks into the season.
Sounds like Molina declined the latest Mets offer, expecting a counter offer. He probably thought he had another suitor out there with a similar offer as well. Mets then counter with "we'll pass - we are focusing on Pineiro now"...other suitor says same thing, or if it was only the Giants they now say "our 2 year $10M offer is now 1 year $4.5M - take it or leave it". With the market now imploded Molina returns with his tail between his legs, but ready once again to bat cleanup.
But....
I mean.....
I swear, I didn't actually feel my eyes stinging from joy at this news.
Where's snapper? Maybe there is a god.
Everyone should be thrilled, because now I don't have to initiate "THE PLAN" and you all get to live.
Which iirc would leave the Mets without a catcher who can hit RHP with an OPS above .700, but it's a little late to worry about that one. They pretty much just need a body, and Rod will do.
This. A pickle.
Let's see..
Molina can't really hit with that .285 OBP of his (some people don't like his defense either) and he's a 35 year old overweight catcher. He's a prime candidate to completely suck out loud next year. He's also shown last year that he's not one to go gracefully into that good night, meaning there is little chance he slides into a backup role if Posey plays well. Posey is the best catching prospect in the National League - he de-effing-stroyed every class he's played in - and is making less than a tenth of Molina's salary.
The Giants spent $16 million this year on Uribe, Huff, DeRosa and Molina. None of whom may be above average offensively. They'd have been better off playing the kids with that money, or playing some of the kids and signing Jason Bay.
I think you meant to say it's quite possible that none will be above average offensively, it is on the other hand it is certainly possible that DeRosa or Huff might cough up a 100+ OPS+
I'd be really really happy if the Mets trade Frenchy, Parnell, Castillo and $ to the Giants for Posey and Lewis.
Or putting it toward the mortgage.
With an offense like the Giants', DeRosa isn't useless.
And yet, in the midst of all that buffoonery, they've gone from 71 wins to 72 to 88 from 2007-09. They could win the division this year.
Next time you're in town, remind me to introduce to one Bochy, Bruce.
I hear what you're saying, but that's a bit of cherry picking when it comes to the Giants record. They tailspun (I winged that one) their way to that 71 win record. Brian Sabean deserves a lot of credit for that little meltdown.
In re the Giants addlepated insistence on paying up for middlin' talent, in the abstract I agree. I am a big fan of a focus on a barbell salary curve, where you maximize near-free talent so you can pay up for the real stars who are so good they outperform even a hefty salary. Thing is, this is a high-leverage game where you need to distinguish the real stars from the merely very good, or you lose one of the major advantages of this approach.
Bay is a perfect example: he's good, but I don't think he outperforms that salary.
That's the great thing about drafting Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain, ain't it?
I think you meant to say it's quite possible that none will be above average offensively, it is on the other hand it is certainly possible that DeRosa or Huff might cough up a 100+ OPS+
DeRosa and Huff might very well both cough up a 100+ OPS+. The issue is that at left field and first base, a 100 OPS+ is well below average.
This is precisely the sort of clogging up the roster/payroll with proven-veteran mediocrity that is Sabean at his worst. None of these guys are likely to be terrible, but none will be good. It's just a waste of space and resources that could be leveraged far more efficiently.
I am not saying I favor this signing, BTW. I think the Giants should have gone after Miguel Olivo. But he's obviously too young for San Francisco. The Rockies signed Olivo for $2 million for 2010 (plus a buyout thingy for 2011) to back-up some other Rockies catcher the Giants got rid of because he was not a proven veteran.
I like Bochy a lot more than most, but if you think that Posey is ever, for any reason other than injury, going to play over Bengie Molina, you're dead wrong.
The Bengie you remember is not the Bengie that exists today. It's painful to watch that man play baseball. Even if you were to somehow convince me that he's the best option out of the veteran catch pack, I'd still hate the move.
Oh I'm pretty sure that at least one will, in fact, be terrible in 2010.
Well, sure, at least one out of four unproven young guys has a good chance of being terrible in 2010, also. But the real problem with these sorts of Sabean signings isn't the downside, which is fairly minimal, it's the complete lack of upside, that an an unproven young guy brings to the table at a fraction of the cost.
Or at least a year's sponsorship of the Ben Molina page on BBRef.com.
Patrick Ewing
Billy Joel
Garrett Morris (is he still alive?)
James Lipton
Bernadette Peters (Liza's surely too old)
Frank Rich
and, of course, JD Salinger
With any luck, #s 2, 4 and 6 will meet their demise.
Let's suppose that's what happens. In that case, what in the world will the Giants have accomplished with this signing? Spending $4.5 million for a guy who's destined to be the backup catcher for at least the second half of the season anyway? Is that a wise use of resources?
And it isn't as though Molina is walking in with the rep as mentor to Posey, an elder statesman happy to assume the role of nurturing the younger talent along. Molina loudly ####### and moaned all last September that if he wasn't going to start (and presumably, continue to bat cleanup), then the Giants just didn't value him, and he didn't want to be around anymore, blah blah blah. He acted like the furthest thing from someone ready to help Posey feel welcome and encouraged.
Last year, the team let Bengie sulk his way back into the lineup, and gave Posey only 17 PAs, despite calling him up in early Sept, starting his arb clock.
Let's face it, the Giants are not an intelligent organization.
From 2004:
Ahh, that vaunted experience standpoint.
Someone tell Sabes you don't get extra points for an old team.
I'm not sure I understand the Giants reasoning here either. $10 might have actually been high enough to get it done.
I do, however, think that they decided to sign Molina when they saw that Tim could only get $13M
+It almost seems as if the Giant's don't realize that Posey is an elite prospect.
I could be wrong, but I don't think a September call-up makes any difference in this regard.
If only that were the case. At least that would be a coherent policy, if a misguided one.
No, instead what the Giants do is this: they rush Posey though their minor league system like greased lightning: 7 games at the Rookie level, a grand total of 3 games in low-A, a whopping 80 games in high-A, 35 in triple-A, and whoosh, the major league call-up barely over a year after signing him, with a grand total of 125 minor league games under his belt.
THAT's how you treat someone whom you're utterly convinced is an elite prospect.
But THEN what do they do? They publicly announce that they don't think he's ready to start in the major leagues, and then go out and re-sign the very mediocre veteran who whined last year that Posey was going to steal his job.
If Posey isn't ready, then what in the blooming hell was the reason to leap-frog through the minors like that? If he isn't ready, they could have him in double-A in 2010, triple-A at the highest -- even though, of course, he utterly dismantled every level he's been in so far.
It just -- well, there's no other way to put it: it betrays a lack of basic rational cognition. If there's a plan here, it's a mystery, wrapped in a riddle, inside an enigma.
The Giants already signed Cain to a multi-year deal, and Lincecum is not interested in a long-term contract.
But Sabean is still pretty much the biggest idiot ever.
edit: OK, Wikipedia says he played 3 years at Florida State.
Other than the half of GMs over the last 15 years who were worse at their jobs than Sabean has been at his. Yes, he's an idiot. But he's far from alone.
This is bullshit. For months, everybody around here goes around anticipatorily mocking Minaya and the Mets for signing Molina to a 3yr deal even though there's no evidence that they were offering him anything in the ballpark. Then, when Molina re-signs with his current team for a crap deal, what's the takeaway for the posters at BTF? Is it that the Mets weren't offering him an especially good deal? Of course not - that would be contrary to everybody's preconceptions. It's that the Mets are so embarrassing as a franchise that the Mets couldn't get Benji Molina to take their money.
Most likely (i) the Mets offered Molina 1 yr/$5 mil with a vesting option at the same price, (ii) the Giants offered 1 yr/$4.5 mil and (iii) Molina figured that if he played well enough to trigger the Mets vesting option, he would be better off trying his luck on the FA market again next year, so why bother moving. Of course, this chain of events doesn't reflect particularly poorly on the Mets, so it must be wrong.
8 does seem a little low, though it has to be one of the highest team offered figures ever. I said they should have went 10, that would have given them a good chance to win, esp if Timmah's camp came in with some ridiculous 18 mil+. Looking at the offers it should be fairly easy for timmy to win this case.
Meanwhile smart teams are locking up their young pitching superstars to long extensions...
I might be in the minority here, but personally Tim Lincecum scares me too much to sign to any huge long term extension. His delivery flies in the face of all my experience watching, playing, and coaching baseball. His stride is inhuman, and the way he can generate so much velocity and put that much torque on such a small frame screams injury to me. The only other person that was able to generate that velocity and have that kind of control in the same body frame was Pedro, but Pedro had a much more compact delivery. I know he's never had any arm trouble, so the empirical evidence isn't there, this is just my observation.
I would just keep paying his record setting arb numbers for 2 more years and see. If he throws another 500 Innings injury free, then maybe there is no cause for concern and then see if you can buy out his last arb year with a large contract. Personally, I still wouldn't feel comfortable about it, that motion is not natural.
I'm here. I was at post #3. Then I had dinner plans.
I think this is an awful deal for SF, b/c it blocks Posey. The same deal for the Mets would have been OK; Thole belongs in AAA. A multi-year deal would have been bad.
But no reason to not open it up to a few other NY celebrities:
I hear Conan O'Brien may have some free time coming up.
Good heavens.
Posey twice (that I personally saw) flat out missed pitches while catching last year. One was a fastball right down the middle that winged an ump in the shin without having even touched Posey's glove, the other, a couple days later, barely missed the ump. This bodes ill for a staff with the likes of guys like Lincecum, Sanchez, Zito and Cain. Posey definitely has a lot of work to do. He'll probably come up mid-season or so and work his way behind the plate for good. No reason to kill the kid by throwing him into a situation that he's by all appearances not ready for.
Molina not being the cleanup hitter will most likely be a boon. He won't have to play every game, which should keep his defense fresh. He seemed to wear down late the last couple years just by virtue of having to catch every day. He also will be in a lower slot, 6th or so, which works in his favor. He'll probably never sniff a decent OBP, but I can take that from a catcher with decent D (I don't buy all the BS about how he's terrible defensively) who is not hitting cleanup. And he knows the staff, which is *huge* given how diverse the kinds of stuff they individually feature. And, this also means that the Giants *don't* have to sign Torrealba, who would be a major letdown from Molina's production.
Let's assume that you're correct in this assessment. The questions then loom enormously: WHY IN THE WORLD HAVE THEY RUSHED HIM THROUGH THE MINOR LEAGUES AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT? WHY DID THEY PROMOTE HIM TO THE MAJORS LAST SEPTEMBER?
He seemed to wear down late the last couple years just by virtue of having to catch every day.
Molina OPS, 2009:
1st half .708
2nd half .754
Molina OPS, 2008:
1st half .726
2nd half .827
Molina OPS, 2007:
1st half .723
2nd half .741
And, this also means that the Giants *don't* have to sign Torrealba, who would be a major letdown from Molina's production.
Molina OPS+ 2009: 86
Torrealba OPS+ 2009: 87
I'm half convinced Torrealba is only around because he hits the Giants so well, he crushed them for whatever reason. I was afraid they'd make a Mark Portugal error and sign him because all they ever see is him rounding second on yet another line drive into the gap.
EDIT My bad, he was called up in September. Still recall hearing the injury stuff, I can't remember if the G's were holding off any other AAA catchers because of playoffs or whatnot.
If the Giants believe the West is winnable and know that pitching will be the key then having a vet behind the plate makes sense. But it would also help to find some offense elsewhere to compensate for Benji's deficient bat.
And, as Treder says, if he's not ready, then why did they rush him?
When he was called up in Sept, the story was that Molina and Whiteside were dinged up. Molina then sulked and was suddenly, miraculously, healthy enough to play. Posey rode the pine and only got 17 PA, never getting a chance to settle in and even show if he could hit there.
And, they seem to be just fine with Bumgarner being the 5th starter next year, even though he showed every sign of not being ready, is still young, and did not pitch in AAA. I would have rather seen this money split on a cheaper C and a veteran starter.
FOR A MINOR AMOUNT OF MONEY.
Good lord people. This is a win for the Giants. Posey has one year of pro ball under his belt. But good lord Sabean is an idiot if he doesn't start right away. I mean, look at Lincecum and Bumgarner, for what that's worth and it's worth nothing at all. I think the Mets fanboy complaints have tainted the groupthink here.
Again, second offseason in a row, I am seriously thankful I am a Giants fan rather than a fan of a donkus POS org like NY's other team.
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