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Friday, December 18, 2020

NBA 2020 Season kick-off thread

I estimate it would take 10-12 Primates to beat James Harden in a wing eating contest.

Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: December 18, 2020 at 02:28 PM | 1912 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: best shape of his life, nba, off-topic

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   1001. asinwreck Posted: January 24, 2021 at 08:10 AM (#6001441)
Flip it like Denzel Valentine pushing it to the basket.
   1002. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 24, 2021 at 11:51 AM (#6001456)
Mike Ganter @Mike_Ganter
No Kyle Lowry again today vs. Pacers. Toe infection.

ew.
   1003. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 24, 2021 at 12:39 PM (#6001459)
Christian Clark @cclark3000
There are 81 NBA players who are taking 5+ 3s per game. Among that group, Redick is 76th in 3P%. Ball is 77th. stathead.com/basketball/psl… pic.twitter.com/HxpZ2PXgud
   1004. puck Posted: January 24, 2021 at 03:44 PM (#6001479)
Luka's on that list, wow.

All those players should be ashamed they are shooting a lower % than Gary Harris.
   1005. sardonic Posted: January 24, 2021 at 05:42 PM (#6001497)
Cribbed from the Athletic:

Kerr has been transparent about his decision to remain firm with a starting lineup that, after Saturday’s disaster in Utah, is now a cumulative minus-73 in its 161 minutes together, a number that’s far worse than any other high-usage lineup in the NBA.

His reasoning has been about defense and the future. Curry, Green and Andrew Wiggins are obviously cemented into their spots. The only questions are about Oubre and Wiseman. The Warriors have committed to Wiseman as the starting center, tying nearly all of his minutes to Curry and Green, because the franchise knows his growth is essential to its climb back into the elite next season, once Klay Thompson returns.

“If we’re going to be a championship contender the next few years, those guys have to learn to play together,” Kerr said.

Oubre is the easier change without long-term implications. He’s not under contract for next season. He’d seem to fit pretty well as a slashing scorer off the bench in units that mostly don’t include Curry or Green and can operate differently.

But Kerr, to this point, has said he wants Oubre out there for defense. He’s longer, more athletic and more disruptive than the other wing options, and Kerr’s belief is that the Curry-Oubre-Wiggins-Green-Wiseman five-man unit, if it meshes in the coming months, gives the Warriors the highest playoff ceiling. Before Saturday’s game, he reaffirmed that he had no plans to look at starting lineup alternatives.

But then that lineup went out and trailed 19-2 and, in 15 total minutes, was outscored by an eye-popping 26 points, which had Kerr striking a slightly different tone after the game.


Pretty interesting to me. Clear that the Warriors are not optimizing for this year. They could probably be 9-7 or 10-6 if they just limited Wiseman's minutes more or even just focused on the Curry-Green PnR before they are down 20. If everything went just right that's a team that could land in the 4-6 seed range.

As it is, it seems like they want to season Wiseman, try to integrate Oubre more into their system and probably evaluate whether he'll be worth the prodigous tax bill to re-sign with Bird Rights for next year.

They're not tanking, per se, both because they want to get back to the playoffs in a more real way next year with Klay and really want to see what they have, and also because they still have Minny's lottery bound pick as upside.

Can't really argue with this as a fan. Will always be fun to catch as many more vintage Curry explosions as he has in him and at the same time Wiseman gives a reason to watch even the beatdowns like last night's by the Jazz.
   1006. rr doesn't talk to pawns Posted: January 24, 2021 at 06:27 PM (#6001502)
Off-topic: I am only a very casual football fan now (all about MLB and NBA) but Tom Brady seems to be basically the LeBron James of football. I do wonder if lack of fans has affected the football playoff a lot; don't know enough to evaluate.
   1007. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 24, 2021 at 06:41 PM (#6001504)
Good lord the Wolves are terrible.
   1008. sardonic Posted: January 24, 2021 at 07:16 PM (#6001508)
Off-topic: I am only a very casual football fan now (all about MLB and NBA) but Tom Brady seems to be basically the LeBron James of football. I do wonder if lack of fans has affected the football playoff a lot; don't know enough to evaluate.


I don't think that analogy is quite right -- Lebron is in fact still playing at close to an MVP level in the regular season, and still someone who would be a Finals MVP. Brady is still solid, but no one is putting him in the MVP convo with guys like Pat Mahomes or Aaron Rodgers. He threw three INTs today and was bailed out by his defense stopping A-Rod in the 4th. At this point Brady is probably more like Shaq on the 06 Heat team.
   1009. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 24, 2021 at 09:24 PM (#6001514)

Daryl Morey @dmorey
I am surprised I beat @getnickwright to this but @TomBrady made a huge mistake winning that game. When he loses to @PatrickMahomes in the @SuperBowl his legacy will be further tarnished. It is always better to lose before the @SuperBowl than to get to the @SuperBowl and lose.
   1010. Howie Menckel Posted: January 24, 2021 at 10:19 PM (#6001516)
Fabled/retired/infamous WFAN talk show host Mike Francesa really did insist that Montana and Bradshaw's 4-0 record in the Super Bowl was better than Brady's 4-2 (or 5-2, or 6-2, and soon perhaps 7-2).

"if you get to the big game, you have to win it."

conference championship games? just tuneups, apparently.

was worth it just to have callers send Mike down a path of logic that left him helplessly trapped in a box - then springing their traps on him. you had to watch the simulcast to see the spittle and flop sweat.

this Brady is exponentially better than the rotting corpse of Peyton Manning when he was propped up at the podium to accept a Super Bowl trophy. but yes, he also is not going to beat Rodgers for MVP this year.

he'll accept the SB MVP if the Bucs win, though, as long as he is still conscious when the game ends (if not, his wife will do the honors). pretty sure the voting is already completed there.
   1011. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: January 24, 2021 at 10:51 PM (#6001519)
By DVOA, Tampa Bay is well ahead of KC. In fact, they are as far ahead of KC as the Chiefs are ahead of San Francisco.
   1012. sardonic Posted: January 24, 2021 at 10:55 PM (#6001521)
this Brady is exponentially better than the rotting corpse of Peyton Manning when he was propped up at the podium to accept a Super Bowl trophy.


Hah, that would have been like watching Karl Malone or Gary Payton win a title with the Lakers.
   1013. sardonic Posted: January 24, 2021 at 10:57 PM (#6001522)
Oh damn, I forgot the Glove was also on that 06 Heat team.
   1014. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: January 24, 2021 at 11:41 PM (#6001523)

I don't think that analogy is quite right -- Lebron is in fact still playing at close to an MVP level in the regular season, and still someone who would be a Finals MVP. Brady is still solid, but no one is putting him in the MVP convo with guys like Pat Mahomes or Aaron Rodgers.


Brady is 7 years older than LeBron, so not quite fair. Brady won the MVP in 2017, when he was 40 years old, though.
   1015. rr doesn't talk to pawns Posted: January 25, 2021 at 12:04 AM (#6001525)
Even though I do not follow football closely at all anymore, I do know what DVOA is from reading FO in past years, so apparently TB is just a very strong team. As to Brady/LeBron, I see merit in both points from 1008 and 1014. I will say that from a narrative POV, Brady switching teams and conferences at age 43 and going to the SB without Belichick is impressive, even if Brady is not a supergreat QB anymore.

   1016. sardonic Posted: January 25, 2021 at 12:18 AM (#6001528)
Yup, didn't mean it as a diss toward TB at all. Not a fan of his, but it is incredibly impressive how he's playing at his age. I'd wholeheartedly agree with the comparison to LBJ in that sense.
   1017. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: January 25, 2021 at 02:50 AM (#6001534)
This is going to regress to the mean obviously, but Devin Vassell's defensive on/off is +13.4. SAS has a DRtg of 101.7 with Vassell on the court, which would easily be first in the league. The list of 20 year olds (he doesn't turn 21 until August) who have been anywhere near that good on the defensive end of the floor is, I imagine, very, very short.

Spurs have such a weird roster. They have nobody between the ages of 26-30, except Derrick White, who has been out all season. They have some old guys, and some young guys, but no one in their theoretical prime.
   1018. SteveF Posted: January 25, 2021 at 07:03 AM (#6001537)
It's rare for a player that age to have such a good on/off.

----

2016 redraft is starting to look interesting.
   1019. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: January 25, 2021 at 08:23 AM (#6001539)
Brady's resume is overwhelming. The QB position is the most important in football but any QB requires a lot of help from coaching, defense, skill positions. I won't argue that he's the best of his generation, and likely of all-time, but why has he been so much more successful than everyone else? He's better than Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, Favre, but is he so much better that he has had more Super Bowls wins and appearances than all of them combined? Would anyone of those guys be just as successful in the same circumstances? I don't know. It's amazing.
   1020. . . . . . . Posted: January 25, 2021 at 09:16 AM (#6001549)
Is the QB as important as the very best, highest usage players in basketball?

There was a story last week that Mahomes playing/not-playing would swing the line approx 10 points. Out of an over/under of approximately 60 (higher if he played, lower if he didnt).
I think that's bigger than the effect that Peak LeBron sitting out a playoff game would have, when converted into the probability of victory, but it's pretty close, no?
   1021. spivey 2 Posted: January 25, 2021 at 09:19 AM (#6001551)
Brady probably does have to be considered the best of all time, but he was pretty thoroughly outplayed by Rodgers yesterday, who was doing it against a considerably better defense.

On top of New England being really good at roster building for much of his prime, a lot of Brady's success seems to be he and the teams he played for don't beat themselves. They've won at least 2 Super Bowls (28-3 and the Seahawks one) they had no business winning. You could maybe put the decision to kick a FG in there, but not as egregious (WinEx looked to go down with the decision from what I saw, but from like 10% to 9%). That's a skill, and the QB definitely deserves part of the credit.

They've also had what seems like a strong homefield advantage, a weak division, so IIRC they had a bunch of playoff byes. As a Spurs fan, I appreciate that style where if you give yourself a ton of chances, you're likely to win a lot. They cheated too, of course.
   1022. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 25, 2021 at 09:24 AM (#6001553)
I think that's bigger than the effect that Peak LeBron sitting out a playoff game would have, when converted into the probability of victory, but it's pretty close, no?
Wouldn't it be more analogous to LeBron missing the series?
   1023. jmurph Posted: January 25, 2021 at 09:36 AM (#6001554)
You're all princes among men but I just want to gently point out there's an active NFL thread.

EDIT: I know I know it's an extended NBA/NFL thing happening.
   1024. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: January 25, 2021 at 09:57 AM (#6001558)
I don't care about the NFL so I'll post this here anyway: I looked at pro football reference the other day, at which player was #1 in HOF predictor by position - Brady was second at QB (behind Peyton - those two were way ahead of everyone else. Wouldn't be surprised if this additional SB moves TD Tom to #1).
   1025. NJ in NJ Posted: January 25, 2021 at 11:04 AM (#6001570)
How awesome is Immanuel Quickley though? I mean, seriously.
   1026. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: January 25, 2021 at 11:07 AM (#6001573)
I haven't seen the Knicks yet - I'm definitely curious to check him out. Thibs is doing something like what I though Stan Van might and vice versa...
   1027. asinwreck Posted: January 25, 2021 at 11:11 AM (#6001575)
Do elaborate. I would rather read any Knicks discussion (including in-depth analysis of the music of JD and the Straight Shot) than football posts in the basketball thread.
   1028. jmurph Posted: January 25, 2021 at 11:18 AM (#6001577)
Thibs is doing something like what I though Stan Van might and vice versa...

Yeah what's up with the Pelicans? Is this a covid-absence thing? I haven't paid much attention. But their record and stats are horrid.
   1029. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: January 25, 2021 at 11:24 AM (#6001578)
i keep hearing that quickley has been insanely good on floaters (sidebar: are floaters making a bit of a comeback? i feel like i've heard more about young players being good at them than ever before.), like, in an unsustainable way but also that's it's clearly a skill of his. additionally, my recollection is that the knicks schedule may have played a role in their success on defense - running in a group of clubs which are alternately bad from the perimeter or missing key scorers.
   1030. sardonic Posted: January 25, 2021 at 11:31 AM (#6001581)
I haven't seen the Knicks yet - I'm definitely curious to check him out. Thibs is doing something like what I though Stan Van might and vice versa...


Against the Warriors, they packed the paint on defense, which worked in their favor since outside of Curry the Warriors can't shoot. Mitchell Robinson ate Wiseman's lunch inside and basically played the Warriors even in the first half until Draymond got ejected, which is about right for two teams around .500.

Feels like their approach works against teams with limited shooting, but they're going to lose battles at the 3 point line with a lot of teams, which is kind of where the NBA is at now.
   1031. SteveF Posted: January 25, 2021 at 11:38 AM (#6001586)
The Knicks are long and recover well out to the 3 point line. They seem to play pretty hard under Thibs. I think their biggest issues are floor spacing and PnR defense.

They aren't going to make the playoffs and will finish under 500, but they aren't a train wreck.
   1032. asinwreck Posted: January 25, 2021 at 11:47 AM (#6001593)
Coaching seems to matter, which explains the major improvement to general competence for the Knicks and Bulls this season. RJ Barrett's development this season is, other than Clyde's wardrobe, what I tune into Knicks games for this year.
   1033. NJ in NJ Posted: January 25, 2021 at 12:02 PM (#6001600)
i keep hearing that quickley has been insanely good on floaters (sidebar: are floaters making a bit of a comeback? i feel like i've heard more about young players being good at them than ever before.), like, in an unsustainable way but also that's it's clearly a skill of his. additionally, my recollection is that the knicks schedule may have played a role in their success on defense - running in a group of clubs which are alternately bad from the perimeter or missing key scorers.

Quickley IS really good on floaters and shoots floaters where other guys go to pull up jumpers, which helps make him feel like the King of the Floater. Seriously, I've watched every Knicks game and can't recall a single non-3 pull up jumper. Once he's within the 3 point line there's a 99.9% chance his shot attempt will be a floater. My math might be off, but only slightly. I have to assume there's some initial strategic advantage in this because I've never seen another player play this way and these types of quirky things tend to work better in the regular season when teams can't prepare for you every night (I also love the fact that he previewed he would play like this in the preseason when he cited synergy data supporting his floater heavy game).

Even if you adjust for 3 point luck, I believe the Knicks defense still comes in in the 10-15 range, which I'll gladly take. Thibs has brought a general level of competence and visible sign of a gameplan that just has not been seen by the Knicks in almost a decade. I'm SO happy right now.

The Knicks' offense is horrific though. To say that floor spacing is an issue is to undersell how horrifically bad most of the lineups are. Knicks fans are screaming for Quickley to replace Payton in the starting lineup to help with that. In Thibs' defense, Quickley does lack wiggle and struggles to get into the teeth of a defense so a lot of time when he's the PG you'll see late shot clock offense and some inept possessions mixed in with lots of beautiful floaters and 3s.

And yes, RJ is coming along nicely. Already a plus defender and a plus on the boards and has done a much better job changing speeds/tempo to do little things like pin defenders to his back on the PnR, which is crucial for someone who is an average to below average athlete and not particularly skilled.
   1034. tshipman Posted: January 25, 2021 at 12:12 PM (#6001604)
The thing with RJ Barett is that the shot doesn't go in. And it doesn't go in from like everywhere on the court. Almost half his 3s are from the corner and he is shooting 28.6% on them.

Yeah what's up with the Pelicans? Is this a covid-absence thing? I haven't paid much attention. But their record and stats are horrid.


Zion is just awful on defense when playing the 4. JJ Redick somehow forgot how to shoot. That's most of it.
   1035. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: January 25, 2021 at 12:17 PM (#6001606)
They cheated too, of course.


Narrator: They did not cheat.
   1036. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 25, 2021 at 12:31 PM (#6001607)
Tommy Beer @TommyBeer
not that Knicks Reddit if fired up about Immanuel Quickely or anything, but they simply suggest Adam Silver should change the NBA logo, and I'm not sure I disagree... #GoatOfFloat
pic.twitter.com/XbkX7rSP69
   1037. jmurph Posted: January 25, 2021 at 12:41 PM (#6001611)
So only 15 games, but Hayward is having a really good year so far, at or around career best numbers pretty much across the board. And he got to take (and make) the gamewinner last night.
   1038. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 25, 2021 at 12:42 PM (#6001613)
Jabari Davis @JabariDavisNBA
Remains his best commercial ever. The perfect capper.
pic.twitter.com/LnbxYD05vJ
   1039. NJ in NJ Posted: January 25, 2021 at 12:46 PM (#6001615)
The thing with RJ Barett is that the shot doesn't go in. And it doesn't go in from like everywhere on the court. Almost half his 3s are from the corner and he is shooting 28.6% on them.

Eh. He went through a horrific shooting slump to start the year. I by no means think he's ever going to be a good shooter, but last year he shot 35.6% from the corner while being a worse shooter than he is now (61% FT to 76% this year). I expect that number to rise.
   1040. tshipman Posted: January 25, 2021 at 12:49 PM (#6001616)
Eh. He went through a horrific shooting slump to start the year.


So far that shooting slump has been his whole career. On 269 career 3s he has shot 30%.

That is not good.
   1041. JJ1986 Posted: January 25, 2021 at 12:51 PM (#6001618)
I don't really believe it but Brooklyn may be interested in Kevin Love because defense is not a thing.
   1042. tshipman Posted: January 25, 2021 at 12:57 PM (#6001620)
Kyrie for Kevin Love works straight up.
   1043. jmurph Posted: January 25, 2021 at 12:59 PM (#6001621)
Love it. Cleveland needs more small guards and Brooklyn needs more defensive sieves.
   1044. asinwreck Posted: January 25, 2021 at 01:00 PM (#6001624)
The player on Cleveland's roster that the Nets could really use is Jarrett Allen.
   1045. JJ1986 Posted: January 25, 2021 at 01:05 PM (#6001628)
I can't put Tyler Johnson in the trade machine yet, but I believe Dinwiddie, Jordan, Claxton and Johnson works.
   1046. tshipman Posted: January 25, 2021 at 01:06 PM (#6001629)
The player on Cleveland's roster that the Nets could really use is Jarrett Allen.


Maybe they could trade a first for him.
   1047. NJ in NJ Posted: January 25, 2021 at 01:09 PM (#6001631)
On 269 career 3s he has shot 30%.

That is not good.


I agree.
   1048. asinwreck Posted: January 25, 2021 at 01:22 PM (#6001636)
Maybe they could trade a first for him.

How strong is the 2030 draft looking? If Sean Marks's scouts aren't seeing much out of fifth-grade recess games, dealing the pick is a reasonable gamble.
   1049. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 25, 2021 at 01:26 PM (#6001638)
I kind of want the Wolves to lose the damn pick this year and just get over it. I also want them to trade Russell, or, more precisely, to never have signed Wiggins to that goddamned extension in the first place.
   1050. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 25, 2021 at 01:34 PM (#6001640)
I kind of want the Wolves to lose the damn pick this year and just get over it. I also want them to trade Russell, or, more precisely, to never have signed Wiggins to that goddamned extension in the first place.
you could always offer anthony bennett...err, edwards... to GSW to try to get your pick back.
   1051. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 25, 2021 at 01:35 PM (#6001641)
Honestly, they should just contract the goddamned team.
   1052. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 25, 2021 at 01:46 PM (#6001646)
Honestly, they should just contract the goddamned team.
or maybe just move it to seattle.
   1053. jmurph Posted: January 25, 2021 at 01:56 PM (#6001648)
Moving the Wolves to Seattle to troll ABerg would be kind of fun.
   1054. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 25, 2021 at 02:01 PM (#6001651)
Naw, the franchise is cursed. Glen Taylor delenda est.
   1055. asinwreck Posted: January 25, 2021 at 02:14 PM (#6001656)
The best part of the Nets potentially picking up JaVale McGee will be when Brooklyn is on TNT and Shaq tries to control his disdain for the center on orders from his mom.
   1056. tshipman Posted: January 25, 2021 at 02:35 PM (#6001659)
JaVale for Landry Shamet and Nic Claxton works, but I'm not sure if either team really wants to do that deal.

It's surprisingly difficult to trade JaVale. It's challenging to include Dinwiddie because the salary pushes Cleveland over the tax.
His number is high enough that you have to make it a 2 for 1.
A lot of the traditional salary ballast guys you would like to include are recently signed, meaning you can't deal them until late Feb.
   1057. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 25, 2021 at 05:28 PM (#6001691)
a story in two acts:
Derek Bodner @DerekBodnerNBA
about 1 hour ago
Joel Embiid has been named the Eastern Conference Player of the Week. He averaged 37.7 points and 11.7 rebounds as the Sixers went 3-0.

Derek Bodner @DerekBodnerNBA
about 10 minutes ago
Joel Embiid (back tightness) will not play tonight. #sixers
   1058. asinwreck Posted: January 25, 2021 at 09:45 PM (#6001732)
The final five minutes of tonight's Brooklyn-Miami game comprise the highlight video Sean Marks will watch as he calms himself from trading this decade's draft picks. Just a late obliteration of the Heat, with Harden's playmaking, Irving's defense, and Durant's rebounding working together splendidly.
   1059. sardonic Posted: January 25, 2021 at 10:20 PM (#6001735)
Warriors replaced Wiseman with Looney in the starting lineup and started 14-4 against the KAT-less Wolves in the first 5 minutes. Maybe they're more serious about that push for the 6th seed than I thought.
   1060. rr doesn't talk to pawns Posted: January 25, 2021 at 10:50 PM (#6001736)
I thought New Orleans would be pretty good and Cleveland would be terrible. I am 0-for-2 on that so far.

Just a late obliteration of the Heat, with Harden's playmaking, Irving's defense, and Durant's rebounding working together splendidly.


Count the superstars.

>>>>>"Joel Embiid (back tightness) will not play tonight. #sixers"

They are saving him for Wednesday's "Make LeBron James Re-Think his Career Choices" showdown.

   1061. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: January 25, 2021 at 10:58 PM (#6001737)
Cleveland actually seems pretty interesting. They didn't play with Nance/Love today either. Theirs guards are quick and they play good defense as a team. I think they are an interesting team right now.

LBJ hit a couple crazy shots to ice a difficult game against the Cavs.
   1062. tshipman Posted: January 25, 2021 at 11:50 PM (#6001755)
Cleveland is a deeply weird team, which I agree makes them interesting.

They play Drummond/Nance, two traditional big men, more minutes than any other pairing. Despite this, they are 29th in Defensive Rebounding as a team.

Everything on Cleveland is backwards:
They are leading the NBA in turnovers, with Larry Nance pacing the team (and the league!) at 2.3 steals per game.
Their leader in fouls per game is a guard?
Their leader in turnovers is a center?
   1063. billyshears Posted: January 26, 2021 at 07:25 AM (#6001761)
How strong is the 2030 draft looking? If Sean Marks's scouts aren't seeing much out of fifth-grade recess games, dealing the pick is a reasonable gamble.


Given the likely roll-back of the 1 & done rule, he should probably be scouting 4th grade recess games too. Can never be too thorough.
   1064. asinwreck Posted: January 26, 2021 at 07:54 AM (#6001763)
Kerr couldn't help but chuckle when asked if a win over the Timberwolves meant a little more given that the Warriors have the rights to the team's future first-round pick, which is top-three protected in 2021 and would be unprotected next year if it doesn't convey.

"Yes," Kerr said. "I'll be honest."
   1065. Rally Posted: January 26, 2021 at 08:26 AM (#6001765)
Given the likely roll-back of the 1 & done rule, he should probably be scouting 4th grade recess games too. Can never be too thorough.


A lot of those 4th graders, though, are not playing recess games in schoolyards because they are stuck at home thanks to covid. Never fear though, many post on youtube and I saw a 4th grader throw down an epic nerf dunk on the hoop attached to the back of his bedroom door. Totally the next Jordan.
   1066. PJ Martinez Posted: January 26, 2021 at 09:21 AM (#6001778)
   1067. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 26, 2021 at 09:25 AM (#6001780)
I am aware that opinions differ, but I feel very lucky to have gotten back into the NBA (2015, when my first daughter was born and I had a lot of time to watch games) in time to enjoy late-period LeBron. He is a goddamned national treasure.
   1068. PJ Martinez Posted: January 26, 2021 at 09:41 AM (#6001784)
Do opinions differ? At this point, I think it's weird to be a fan of the NBA and not appreciate LeBron. (And I say that as someone who sports-hates the Lakers with a passion.)
   1069. jmurph Posted: January 26, 2021 at 09:49 AM (#6001786)
The 2nd Cleveland stint seems to have pulled back in a lot of neutrals or people who didn't like him previously.

I'm sort of the opposite: I think those were the only 4 Finals years I cheered against his team? Even Lakers over Miami was an easy call for me. But I found those Cavs teams to be really unlikable.
   1070. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 26, 2021 at 10:33 AM (#6001795)
I never really rooted for his teams, as a neutral, but I am so glad he exists.
   1071. jmurph Posted: January 26, 2021 at 10:41 AM (#6001799)
I never really rooted for his teams, as a neutral, but I am so glad he exists.

Oh I rarely did until the Finals, especially since he was frequently roasting my team on the way there.
   1072. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: January 26, 2021 at 10:45 AM (#6001800)
Did everybody see this flop?
   1073. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 26, 2021 at 11:01 AM (#6001802)
Did everybody see this flop?

It is a thing of beauty.
   1074. NJ in NJ Posted: January 26, 2021 at 11:23 AM (#6001808)
LeBron saved basketball for me back in the late aughts when the Knicks were unwatchable and my only hope was that maybe this guy would come to the Garden. He never did, but watching him has been one of the great joys of my life. I get a kick out of how quickly my 4 year old daughter recognizes him when he's on screen (though, unfortunately given my rooting interests, her favorite basketball players of all time are Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant). I'm going to be really sad when he's gone.
   1075. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: January 26, 2021 at 12:16 PM (#6001818)
He never did, but watching him has been one of the great joys of my life.

Don't give up hope. He might decide to play the last 5 years of his career with the Knicks when he becomes a free agent.
   1076. tshipman Posted: January 26, 2021 at 12:19 PM (#6001820)
The 2nd Cleveland stint seems to have pulled back in a lot of neutrals or people who didn't like him previously.

I'm sort of the opposite: I think those were the only 4 Finals years I cheered against his team? Even Lakers over Miami was an easy call for me. But I found those Cavs teams to be really unlikable.


LeBron played such beautiful basketball in Miami that the second Cleveland stint was hard. It wasn't that it was ugly--I don't think LeBron is capable of playing ugly basketball. It was just so brutalist.

It was actually fairly reminiscent (although less extreme) of Harden in Houston, which I also didn't enjoy.
   1077. spivey 2 Posted: January 26, 2021 at 12:44 PM (#6001824)
I absolutely hated the roster that LeBron had around him in Cleveland, which affected my enjoyment then. I also didn't like both the perception and the reality of Golden State and Cleveland playing every year, especially since the matchups mostly weren't fun (especially after Durant came in).

I'd fallen out of love in the mid-2000s to early 2010s, and swore it off after the travesty that was the Miami/Dallas Finals. But the talent and product, with LeBron being a huge part of that, was undeniable, and brought me back. LeBron is the face of the Golden Age of basketball, imo.

Add onto that LeBron is such a great guy to be the GOAT. Great ambassador for the game, wise beyond his years, isn't gonna say some bullshit like republicans buy sneakers too. It'll be a very sad day when he's gone.
   1078. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 26, 2021 at 12:58 PM (#6001827)
he still should have signed with the sixers for a year, instead of wasting it on julius randle and brandon ####### ingraham.
   1079. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: January 26, 2021 at 01:56 PM (#6001840)
Going into this season, I thought LeBron would ease into the season and allow AD to carry the team as LeBron tread water until the playoffs. It dos seem to be the other way around though which is remarkable.

LeBron is still the team’s engine. He leads the Lakers in minutes (32.7), points (25.2), and assists (7.4), and is second in rebounds (7.9). The team goes from a net rating of plus-12.5 in 588 minutes with him to plus-1.2 in 276 minutes without him. The difference is that Los Angeles’s newcomers are making LeBron better, instead of him always having to make his teammates better.

Davis, despite being almost a decade younger than James, is the Lakers superstar who has taken a step back this season. He’s averaging the third-fewest points per game (21.8) of his career. Los Angeles has a net rating of plus-5.7 in 235 minutes when LeBron plays without Davis, and minus-1.3 in 169 minutes when Davis plays without LeBron.


LeBron is shooting the three better but that's a small sample. I do think having Schroeder allows him to rest in the game more than last year and he is also playing fewer minutes.
   1080. rr doesn't talk to pawns Posted: January 26, 2021 at 01:57 PM (#6001841)
I like public James more than public Jordan as well (e.g. 1077), but I will say that Jordan (and Magic) were the right personalities for that moment, just as James is the right personality for this moment. Jordan and Magic were perfect "crossover" icons at a time when that was a thing (1980s Michael Jackson, Prince, Bill Cosby) in a way that it is not now.
   1081. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 26, 2021 at 02:00 PM (#6001842)
Jordan and Magic were perfect "crossover" icons at a time when that was a thing (1980s Michael Jackson, Prince, Bill Cosby)
petition to replace prince with oj simpson
   1082. tshipman Posted: January 26, 2021 at 02:25 PM (#6001850)
Going into this season, I thought LeBron would ease into the season and allow AD to carry the team as LeBron tread water until the playoffs. It dos seem to be the other way around though which is remarkable.


I've been tracking this as well.

Weirdly, the Lakers are playing AD without LeBron with Montrezl Harrell (and Marc Gasol to a lesser extent) overwhelmingly (90%+). These lineups are suboptimal, and I'd imagine that they will go away in the playoffs.

I assume this is just AD being a baby about playing C, but it went away in the playoffs completely last year, and probably will again this year.
   1083. billyshears Posted: January 26, 2021 at 03:02 PM (#6001866)
Don't give up hope. He might decide to play the last 5 years of his career with the Knicks when he becomes a free agent.


I've already talked myself into the Knicks signing 44 year old Lebron to a max contract.
   1084. asinwreck Posted: January 26, 2021 at 03:23 PM (#6001870)
Is any of James Dolan's estate planning a matter of public record? Imagine how different the Knicks would be with competent ownership.
   1085. CFBF's Results are Certified Posted: January 26, 2021 at 03:36 PM (#6001873)
It's 2031. A 46-year-old LeBron James is putting up 20/5/3 on efficient shooting for the London Towers. This thread debates whether LeBron's insistence on keeping his son Bronny on the roster meaningfully saps his value to Towers.

Meanwhile, Jahlil Okafor is putting the finishing touches on the third of his back-to-back-to-back MVP campaigns, as stiggles revels in his control of all six Infinity Stones.
   1086. asinwreck Posted: January 26, 2021 at 03:38 PM (#6001874)
Best wishes for a smooth road ahead to Caris LeVert.
Indiana Pacers guard Caris LeVert is expected to make a full recovery after undergoing surgery to treat renal cell carcinoma of his left kidney Monday, the team announced.

The surgery was performed by Dr. Jason Sprunger at Community Hospital North in Indianapolis, and the team said no further treatment is needed.


I'll miss watching him play in Brooklyn, but I'm so glad he was traded so this was caught as early as it was.
   1087. rr doesn't talk to pawns Posted: January 26, 2021 at 03:52 PM (#6001878)
Adding: Back in the late 80s, Mario Cuomo once made a public statement in a political setting, lamenting the lack of role models "like Joe DiMaggio" among star jocks. A legislator got up and said that we did in fact have such role models and "their names are Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson." Cuomo said, "I stand corrected."

Today, of course, Jordan and Johnson are seen as being much more flawed than they were then for many reasons, and it may be the same for James. These guys seem very different once their playing time ends. OTOH, James seems like he could do awesome stuff after basketball.
   1088. rr doesn't talk to pawns Posted: January 26, 2021 at 03:53 PM (#6001879)
petition to replace prince with oj simpson


Heh. Indeed.
   1089. rr doesn't talk to pawns Posted: January 26, 2021 at 04:01 PM (#6001881)
I do think having Schroeder allows him to rest in the game more than last year and he is also playing fewer minutes.


Yeah. Schroder, Gasol, and Harrell help the O, and to this point, the D has been good as well. As I said when he got hired, Vogel came to LA with a pretty good record as a D coach, and that had played out so far.
   1090. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: January 26, 2021 at 04:05 PM (#6001882)
Today, of course, Jordan and Johnson are seen as being much more flawed than they were then for many reasons, and it may be the same for James. These guys seem very different once their playing time ends. OTOH, James seems like he could do awesome stuff after basketball.


What are Johnson's flaws? Isn't he generally seen as a very positive black businessman?
   1091. tshipman Posted: January 26, 2021 at 04:11 PM (#6001884)
What are Johnson's flaws? Isn't he generally seen as a very positive black businessman?


I mean, Magic didn't get HIV in a board room. Like, I love Magic and he is my favorite basketball player of all time, but if I could pick a superstar in the NBA for my son to emulate, it would be LeBron by a huuuuge margin.
   1092. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 26, 2021 at 04:46 PM (#6001887)
There hasn't been anything about Magic's personal life crossing any ethical lines, has there? I don't think enthusiasm for promiscuity or even orgies is any sort of mark against a person, even though that's not what butters my personal bread.
   1093. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 26, 2021 at 05:00 PM (#6001888)
Meanwhile, Jahlil Okafor is putting the finishing touches on the third of his back-to-back-to-back MVP campaigns, as stiggles revels in his control of all six Infinity Stones.

i saw jahlil okafor play for the first time in a few years this week (because joel embiid fouled out DET's entire front court) and i'm pretty sure he's toasted.

his offensive game is depressingly basic. all he does is set screens, and roll (lazily) to the rim. his face up game is gone. his midrange game has disappeared. his body is completely different, but his lack of explosion is entirely the same. he gets up and down the court more easily, but he's not beating anyone down the floor to get easy looks.

it was depressing.
   1094. . . . . . . Posted: January 26, 2021 at 05:07 PM (#6001889)
I'll miss watching him play in Brooklyn, but I'm so glad he was traded so this was caught as early as it was.


As a Michigan guy, I second this so emphatically. RCC caught incidentally, as a small mass, has a 90%+ cure rate. Once it's symptomatic (which necessarily means its large, and often means it's already metastasized), its <50%. Caris is a seriously lucky guy.
   1095. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 26, 2021 at 06:47 PM (#6001917)
I never thought Magic's HIV diagnosis was a mark on his character; it seemed more like an inevitability and his number just came up. He certainly has done a lot of interesting good work in the Black community post-playing career.
   1096. puck Posted: January 26, 2021 at 09:29 PM (#6001991)
Nothing about the Murray nut punch?

That surprised me. I had never heard about him taking cheap shots...did Hardaway totally get into his head earlier that game?
   1097. Tin Angel Posted: January 26, 2021 at 10:45 PM (#6002029)
Is tonight's light schedule random or meant as a tribute to Kobe?
   1098. rr doesn't talk to pawns Posted: January 26, 2021 at 11:02 PM (#6002030)
1097: Lakers/76ers is tomorrow in Philly, which would seem to be the appropriate Kobe Memorial game, so to speak.

Magic Johnson: This may be living in LakerLand, but I think the businessman thing has faded in memory and he is known some now for his FO incompetence and goofiness on Twitter and on TV. But by "flawed" I meant more "less than competent" than "ethically deficient."
   1099. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: January 26, 2021 at 11:21 PM (#6002037)
Recently, it appears that there has been a theme that Andrew Wiggins is figuring things out/playing better with the Warriors. He has been shooting a bit better recently but is this anything more than a good shooting stretch?
   1100. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: January 26, 2021 at 11:37 PM (#6002045)
if I could pick a superstar in the NBA for my son to emulate, it would be LeBron by a huuuuge margin.

I am not saying you are a bad parent, but the correct answer is Steph Curry. And you are a bad parent.
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