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Friday, December 18, 2020

NBA 2020 Season kick-off thread

I estimate it would take 10-12 Primates to beat James Harden in a wing eating contest.

Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: December 18, 2020 at 02:28 PM | 3341 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: best shape of his life, nba, off-topic

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   201. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: December 25, 2020 at 03:32 PM (#5995958)
flip
   202. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: December 25, 2020 at 03:37 PM (#5995959)
Theory - the ratio of "mean" tweets to "not mean" tweets about Andrew Wiggins might be the highest ratio in the history of Twitter for any athlete.

EDIT - "mean" I guess means anything negative-ish; "not mean" everything else
   203. Hombre Brotani Posted: December 25, 2020 at 03:58 PM (#5995964)
Legendary Boston Celtics player, coach K.C. Jones dies at 88.

To this day, Jones is just one of eight players to win college basketball and NBA titles as well as Olympic gold, joining Russell, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Jerry Lucas, Quinn Buckner, Clyde Lovellette and Anthony Davis.
R.I.P.
   204. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: December 25, 2020 at 04:20 PM (#5995967)
Giannis’ touch is off - on passes as well as shots
   205. tshipman Posted: December 25, 2020 at 05:32 PM (#5995976)
On the upside for GSW, Wiseman looks like a good player.

On the downside, the offense looks like a clogged toilet. Some of it is shooting luck? Wiggins and Oubre just look awful out there. Paschall has no idea how to play with Curry.

Draymond coming back and some 3p reversion should help, but the Warriors only really look to have 4 rotation caliber NBA players: Curry, Wiseman, Draymond and Wannamaker.
   206. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: December 25, 2020 at 05:38 PM (#5995977)
I see that Stiggles is still salty that James blew off the 76ers to come here. That said, I was as noted a little surprised that James came here, too, but his confidence in himself proved to be justified. The Busses, warts and all, are not like Dolan. Also, James just wanted to live in LA to be part of the movie culture. That was not clear before he signed.

Wiseman looks like he will be very good, but I have not seen anything, yet,obviously to make me feel less skeptical about GS. I am sort of surprised that Kerr has not retired. I had the sound off, so it might have been explained, but I didn't get the Bucks' Christmas Unis. Looked like Dallas colors.

Ups to Hombre for mentioning KC Jones on his passing.

   207. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: December 25, 2020 at 06:10 PM (#5995979)
that blue is the Bucks' third color, they use it as an accent mainly and I have a hat with it that I like a lot. Those jerseys are just too much blue though, and the font and design are pretty uninspiring.
   208. asinwreck Posted: December 25, 2020 at 06:28 PM (#5995980)
Kyrie has discussed growing up a Nets fan watching Ian Eagle on TV.
   209. asinwreck Posted: December 25, 2020 at 06:29 PM (#5995981)
Terrible year for Celtic legends.
   210. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: December 25, 2020 at 07:06 PM (#5995986)
I see that Stiggles is still salty that James blew off the 76ers to come here.
you're not wrong.

i'm not sure whether i'm more or less petty about it now that lebron proved himself right. probably less, but that might change from moment to moment.
That said, I was as noted a little surprised that James came here, too, but his confidence in himself proved to be justified. The Busses, warts and all, are not like Dolan. Also, James just wanted to live in LA to be part of the movie culture. That was not clear before he signed.
it was always clear that lebron valued things other than "just" basketball.

what was less clear is that he was willing to sacrifice one of his last remaining years in order to get a jump on his post-retirement plans.
   211. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: December 25, 2020 at 07:28 PM (#5995987)
The Warriors are 1-6 in the last 7 games Curry has played with a point differential of -17.1.

It's not his fault but it's not not his fault either.

EDIT: What I mean by that is that it is not his fault they are bad but he hasn't been the reason they have been good either.

   212. asinwreck Posted: December 25, 2020 at 07:30 PM (#5995988)
If the Nets stay healthy, they will be fun.
   213. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: December 25, 2020 at 07:31 PM (#5995989)
I still think Kyrie Irving is good. Jaylen Brown looks good, but Boston needs Walker. Payton Pritchard vs. Alex Caruso will be pretty epic when the Lakers play Boston.
   214. GregD Posted: December 25, 2020 at 07:39 PM (#5995990)
The Nets looked kinda scary today. We will see. They had more from the non big two guys than I expected. Jarrett Allen was fun to watch tonight
   215. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: December 25, 2020 at 07:47 PM (#5995991)
Curry: when this came up before,my opinion was one of my usual simple ones: on O, peak Curry was historically great, as good as almost anyone ever. On D, he was just a guy. There is I think a ceiling of sorts on how good a guy Curry's size can be. The other two guys his size on his level historically are likely Chris Paul and Jerry West. You can argue for some others--Nash, Stockton. I guess the argument is whether Curry was actually the best player in the game when he was winning MVPs. I had no problem with his winning, but I don't think many people ever really thought he was actually better than LeBron James. I never did.

As far as now, Curry is almost 33, and they don't have Thompson, Durant, or Green right now, plus their skilled veteran bench guys are gone. This does not substantially affect my personal view of peak Curry.
   216. tshipman Posted: December 25, 2020 at 07:49 PM (#5995992)
The Warriors are 1-6 in the last 7 games Curry has played with a point differential of -17.1.

It's not his fault but it's not not his fault either.

EDIT: What I mean by that is that it is not his fault they are bad but he hasn't been the reason they have been good either.


Curry shot 23% from 3 in those games, while taking an average of 10 3s per game.

Do you think it's more likely that Curry continues to shoot 23%, or his career rate of 43%?
   217. smileyy Posted: December 25, 2020 at 09:04 PM (#5995996)
What if Steph isn't a video game anymore?
   218. Tin Angel Posted: December 25, 2020 at 09:28 PM (#5995998)
Luka Dončić is 14 for 36 so far this year and the Mavericks are about to start 0-2. I personally will look back at his prime with a grain of salt.
   219. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: December 25, 2020 at 09:28 PM (#5995999)

Do you think it's more likely that Curry continues to shoot 23%, or his career rate of 43%?


I think his percentage is going to be lower than his career average, especially if he continues to shoot 8+ threes a game. I think not having Thompson, and the other great complement of players that he has had for a large part of his career, is going to drive his 3-point percentage down. If he shoots 8+, I think he shoots between 35-40% from 3.

All I am going to say that I think Steph Curry's success was more context dependent than a lot of superstars. Other superstars raise the floor of their teams more than Curry does IMHO. I think it's more possible to have a bad team with Steph Curry, even prime Steph Curry, as the team's best player than it is with other superstar players like LBJ, Durant, Kawhi, and Harden.

I am willing to acknowledge that I am wrong and I am also willing to consider that Curry's unique skill set may raise the ceiling of a team more than other superstars.

Luka Dončić is 14 for 36 so far this year and the Mavericks are about to start 0-2. I personally will look back at his prime with a grain of salt.

How do you feel about Curry right now and is there anything that can happen this year that can change your mind? If the Warriors are really bad this year, does that matter at all?

It is going to be interesting to me to see how this year goes for the Warriors.

   220. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: December 25, 2020 at 09:44 PM (#5996002)
why is DAL wearing celtics jerseys?
   221. Tin Angel Posted: December 25, 2020 at 10:27 PM (#5996006)
How do you feel about Curry right now


You mean all two games? Or all seven he's played in since his injury? Either way, obviously it negates everything he's done in his career and it proves you are right and he was vastly overrated.

It is going to be interesting to me to see how this year goes for the Warriors.


I'm going to let you in on a little tip- they are going to be very bad because they have one, maybe two good players.


   222. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: December 25, 2020 at 11:15 PM (#5996007)
why is DAL wearing celtics jerseys?
Not nearly as bad as the Bulls St. Patrick’s Day unis, which ought to be grounds for trademark infringement.
   223. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: December 25, 2020 at 11:31 PM (#5996008)
People may know this, but as one of the older dudes on the thread, I will note that those were the Mavs' road unis during the Aguirre/Tarpley/Blackman years.
   224. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: December 26, 2020 at 12:25 AM (#5996009)
why is nikola jokic's nose redder than a baboon's #######?
   225. . . . . . . Posted: December 26, 2020 at 12:50 AM (#5996010)
Because Santa needs someone to pull the sleigh on foggy nights, you heathen.
   226. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: December 26, 2020 at 03:21 AM (#5996012)
The Curry gloom and doom stuff notwithstanding, I'm very interested to see how the Warriors approach the next few years. Curry, Klay, and Draymond are all in their 30s now and coming off injuries. They have Andrew Wiggins for some reason. Are they really going to keep paying absurd luxury taxes for this team? They have Wiseman and the upside of the Wolfs' pick next year, they could try to tear it down and reassemble a pretty good team with another year or two of tanking.

On the other hand, they have the shiny new arena ready to be deployed and you'd think they'd need to be decent... but after years of championships, will fans really want to pay top dollar to watch even a 45-win first-round-playoff-exit team?
   227. billyshears Posted: December 26, 2020 at 01:07 PM (#5996034)
I think we way overstate the difference between organizations that are perceived as smart and organizations are perceived as dumb. So much of what we perceive as intelligence is luck combined with a couple 60-40 decisions that work out and so much of what we perceive as idiocy is bad luck combined with 60-40 decisions that don't work out. And a string of luck and decisions that work out often lead to easier and better options, at least for a while. Whereas bad luck and decisions that don't work out often lead that nothing but bad options, until a stoke of luck comes your way. Obviously this isn't the whole story. Player development matters. Some teams work more on the margins to get extra assets and some teams piss them away. But more often than not, those six extra second rounds and the occasional extra late first doesn't move the needle.
   228. smileyy Posted: December 26, 2020 at 02:44 PM (#5996044)
These threads can converge when the Knicks sign a late-career no-longer-All-Star Curry to a long term deal.
   229. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: December 26, 2020 at 03:13 PM (#5996045)
Adam Spolane @AdamSpolane
James Harden didn't address anything that has taken place over the last week
   230. tshipman Posted: December 26, 2020 at 03:48 PM (#5996048)
These threads can converge when the Knicks sign a late-career no-longer-All-Star Curry to a long term deal.


Are you saying the Warriors are going to release Curry this year? Wow.
   231. . . . . . . Posted: December 26, 2020 at 04:10 PM (#5996050)
You know, the Warriors turned into a hardcore dumb organization so gradually that I didn’t even notice.
   232. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: December 26, 2020 at 05:18 PM (#5996052)
The Warriors planned to go into this year with all of Curry, Thompson, and Green healthy, which even at their age is the bones of a dark horse contender; every time a potentially contending roster is in place, even one that would need a little injury or shooting luck, a team would be stupid not to go for it. Bad luck and stupidity are sometimes hard to distinguish, but this case seems pretty clear cut to me.
   233. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: December 26, 2020 at 06:34 PM (#5996066)
the only winning move is not to ... trade for andrew wiggins.
   234. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: December 26, 2020 at 06:45 PM (#5996068)
I mean, I'd say that the only winning move is not to offer D'Angelo Russell a max contract, but, same energy?
   235. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: December 26, 2020 at 07:44 PM (#5996075)
these knicks jerseys are godawful.

i like them.
   236. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 26, 2020 at 10:26 PM (#5996085)
The Timberwolves are currently in the playoffs.

Stop the season.
   237. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: December 26, 2020 at 10:29 PM (#5996087)
Harden looks reasonably engaged so far and has 7 assists in 8 minutes.

Blake Griffin shoot 16 3s today and did hit 8 of them but he only scored 2 points outside the three pointers. The Pistons really need someone other than Rose to create offense.
   238. sardonic Posted: December 26, 2020 at 11:13 PM (#5996089)
I mean given that the Warriors were capped out anyway, I'm pretty sure if they weren't paying Wiggins they would just have nothing, right? And they also netted out Minny's first round pick next year. That series of transactions essentially also netted the exception that led to Kelly Oubre at the cost of a protected 2024 first rounder and Andre Iguodala, who would be gone anyway.

Sucks for Lacob's bank account, but basketball wise it's not like Wiggins is taking minutes away from some great prospect. Oubre seemed like a solid pickup for the exception space.

The plan was worth a shot to see if the Curry/Klay/Dray core had another run in them, but I guess that's not to be.

All that's left to do is for on Kerr and Ron Adams to coach these guys up. Even with Curry playing more like a fringe All Star, with Wiggins and Oubre playing to their career averages you should have at least the talent of a fringe playoff team.

All in all I do expect the talent to jell a bit more and finish above .500 and end up a fringe playoff team.

Maybe if Wiseman develops to an 80th percentile outcome for a no 2 (LaMarcus Aldridge?) by next year and Klay comes back reasonably healthy they can make one last run like the 2014 Spurs.

Otherwise, while we're extrapolating everything off two games seems like Wiseman and next year's Minny pick is a good place to start rebuilding. Should still be fun to watch Curry and Klay do their thing while the kids develop even if they're not a contender the next few years.
   239. Hombre Brotani Posted: December 27, 2020 at 12:02 AM (#5996095)
Chris Paul looks good running PnR with Ayton.
   240. tshipman Posted: December 27, 2020 at 12:23 AM (#5996096)
I mean given that the Warriors were capped out anyway, I'm pretty sure if they weren't paying Wiggins they would just have nothing, right?


I mean, the whole idea is that would be an improvement.
   241. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: December 27, 2020 at 01:40 AM (#5996097)
Harden scored 44 points with 17 assists. Say what you want about the guy but he can put up numbers.
   242. Hombre Brotani Posted: December 27, 2020 at 01:49 AM (#5996098)
The Timberwolves are currently in the playoffs.
D'Angelo Russell, leading another team into the playoffs.
   243. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 27, 2020 at 10:36 AM (#5996102)
Two wins, no losses. A Christmas miracle.
   244. asinwreck Posted: December 27, 2020 at 11:56 AM (#5996106)
Based upon the first two games of the season, the Bulls-Warriors game should be a classic.
   245. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: December 27, 2020 at 12:58 PM (#5996112)
I agree that most of the Knicks story could (and has) happened to most any organization, but this, on the other hand...
   246. puck Posted: December 27, 2020 at 01:22 PM (#5996122)
Did anyone catch Soul? There was a Knicks joke in there and Doris Burke is credited as "basketball announcer."
   247. asinwreck Posted: December 27, 2020 at 01:45 PM (#5996129)
The film's attention to detail is remarkable, and the Knicks reference is no exception.
   248. Hombre Brotani Posted: December 27, 2020 at 02:30 PM (#5996134)
That was perhaps the most delightful little throwaway joke in the whole movie.

Really good movie, but somewhat less than the sum of its parts, I think.
   249. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: December 27, 2020 at 04:33 PM (#5996146)
77-27?
   250. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: December 27, 2020 at 04:34 PM (#5996147)
77-27?
   251. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: December 27, 2020 at 06:03 PM (#5996156)
Lakers without Davis will be a test of whether the added O makes up for missing interior D/length.
   252. puck Posted: December 27, 2020 at 06:38 PM (#5996159)
77-27?

And the Nuggets couldn't come back against them after Kawhi went out.
   253. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: December 27, 2020 at 08:04 PM (#5996169)
The first two games made me re-think Luka Doncic, but this game makes me re-re-think him.
   254. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: December 27, 2020 at 09:37 PM (#5996176)
Kelly Oubre has had a less than good start to the season.
   255. An Athletic in Powderhorn, Silly Posted: December 27, 2020 at 10:28 PM (#5996180)
Why does Andrew Wiggins exist?
   256. smileyy Posted: December 27, 2020 at 10:33 PM (#5996181)
To take shots that someone else really should.
   257. Hombre Brotani Posted: December 27, 2020 at 10:56 PM (#5996183)
Weird day in the NBA. Nets and Celtics lose. 76ers and Bucks lose to bad teams, and the Clippers don't even show up.
   258. spivey 2 Posted: December 27, 2020 at 11:39 PM (#5996186)
Today's game between the Mavs and Clippers is going to have a pretty meaningful impact in their SRS-type metrics for the year.
   259. Hombre Brotani Posted: December 27, 2020 at 11:43 PM (#5996187)
40 minutes of garbage time for Wolves-Lakers. NBA action, it's fantastic.
   260. spivey 2 Posted: December 27, 2020 at 11:51 PM (#5996189)
I feel like a LOT of the primetime games in this short season have been blowouts.
   261. tshipman Posted: December 28, 2020 at 01:51 AM (#5996192)
I think if teams are going to take 40 3pers a game, you're just going to get a lot of blowouts. Particularly when a lot of the guys taking 3s are more marginal 3p shooters.
   262. An Athletic in Powderhorn, Silly Posted: December 28, 2020 at 08:37 AM (#5996195)
I'll take it, but the Warriors had no business winning that game. 70% of their possessions seemed to be Steph getting a ball screen, being doubled, and either taking a tough shot or kicking it to a wide-open Oubre for a brick. That's probably not sustainable.
   263. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 28, 2020 at 08:50 AM (#5996198)
You think Oubre has a limited supply of bricks?
   264. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: December 28, 2020 at 12:26 PM (#5996234)
I take back all previous optimism - the Bulls are hot garbage. Assorted thoughts:

1. WCJ played better last night, but looked unbelievably bad the first 2 games. My hopes for him are fading fast. Both the Hawks and Pacers* just destroyed the Bulls in the paint, and most of that is on WCJ.
2. Coby White is not a PG. I think I'd rather have LaVine run point, and also I'd rather have LaVine as a starting 2. Though it's still early for him...he's surprisingly unathletic.
3. Lauri looks a lot better, and the Bulls have been at their best so far this year with him at C. I don't think he's a center, it's a nice change of pace to place him there against bench lineups though.
4. Patrick Williams will easily be the Bulls best player by the end of this year, IMO.
5. Bulls should have traded Otto Porter and Thad Young (who hasn't played yet) for anything they could have gotten this offseason. There's still time to trade them, but they'll do more for the Bulls future as trade bait.
6. I think the FO goofed by not shaking up this roster more substantially in the offseason. They'll probably regret that when they do actually make a deal (which they might during the season).


*Sabonis is owning the bad guy in an 80's ski movie vibe right now.
   265. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: December 28, 2020 at 12:27 PM (#5996235)
You think Oubre has a limited supply of bricks?

Bulls suck, but this was funny.
   266. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: December 28, 2020 at 12:28 PM (#5996236)
Bulls suck, but this was funny.
can confirm.
   267. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: December 28, 2020 at 12:36 PM (#5996237)
5. Bulls should have traded Otto Porter and Thad Young (who hasn't played yet) for anything they could have gotten this offseason. There's still time to trade them, but they'll do more for the Bulls future as trade bait.

oh boy, do i ever have a proposal for you
   268. asinwreck Posted: December 28, 2020 at 01:43 PM (#5996244)
Dwight Howard is not going to Chicago.
   269. asinwreck Posted: December 28, 2020 at 02:14 PM (#5996246)
Who had Spencer Dinwiddie as the first Net to be out significant time with an injury?
   270. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: December 28, 2020 at 02:24 PM (#5996248)
Kyle Neubeck @KyleNeubeck
The NBA announced that Daryl Morey has been fined $50k under anti-tampering rules for a recent post about James Harden
   271. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 28, 2020 at 02:54 PM (#5996254)
The Dinwiddie injury (like most injuries, especially this early) really sucks.

EDIT: And I am not even a Nets fan.
   272. tshipman Posted: December 28, 2020 at 03:15 PM (#5996258)
Dwight Howard is not going to Chicago.


Has anyone told him about the art museums though?

The NBA announced that Daryl Morey has been fined $50k under anti-tampering rules for a recent post about James Harden


They should probably fine Magic, too, just to be safe.

The Dinwiddie injury (like most injuries, especially this early) really sucks.


Except for the Marquese Chriss injury. We went from Christmastime to Chriss miss Time.
(found on NBA reddit)
   273. puck Posted: December 28, 2020 at 03:29 PM (#5996261)
Damn, Dinwiddie's done both ACLs now. I guess at least they know he's able to put in the rehab work.
   274. asinwreck Posted: December 28, 2020 at 08:27 PM (#5996299)
Uh oh. Ja Morant seems to have badly hurt his left ankle.

EDIT: Couldn't put any weight on the foot and they took him off in a wheelchair. Really hope this isn't as serious as it looks.
   275. DCA Posted: December 28, 2020 at 08:42 PM (#5996301)
Quoting myself from the first page of the thread:

There isn't a team in the NBA that George Hill wouldn't help. OKC is going to hold him until all the "recently signed/traded" time limits are up and then gouge the first contending team that develops a need for a 25 MPG rotation guard that can run the point and shoot.


Maybe the Nets win the Hill sweepstakes? Dinwiddie for Hill straight up works in the trade machine.
   276. I am going to be Frank Posted: December 28, 2020 at 09:17 PM (#5996305)
Why would OKC want an injured Dinwiddie? Would they do Taurean Prince and 1st for Hill?
   277. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: December 28, 2020 at 11:19 PM (#5996321)
One thing that is obvious about this Laker team is that they have more guys that can create their offense. Schroeder, Harrell, and even THT can get a bucket by themselves. Even Kuzma seems more confident.
   278. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: December 28, 2020 at 11:42 PM (#5996323)
Morant's ankle is reportedly a sprain; I didn't see it happen, but a really bad sprain might put him out 2 months (thanks to Galaxybrain Harnessmaker for making me learn those timetables earlier this year). Huge bummer, that young man is electric.
   279. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: December 28, 2020 at 11:53 PM (#5996324)
Galaxybrain Harnessmaker

I always thought his name was Glass Human.
   280. Hombre Brotani Posted: December 29, 2020 at 12:13 AM (#5996326)
Portland's raining 3s in the 4th.
   281. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: December 29, 2020 at 12:22 AM (#5996328)
Even Kuzma seems more confident.


Is... is this a good thing?
   282. Hombre Brotani Posted: December 29, 2020 at 12:27 AM (#5996329)
Kuzma's fine. Trent Jr. going off from long range and a few bombs from CJ and Dam are what did it. The Blazers were hitting guarded 3s, and there's not much you can do about that.
   283. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: December 29, 2020 at 12:32 AM (#5996331)
The Lakers actually shot better than the Blazers from 3 although the Blazers hit more 3s. It was the second game of B2B and they ran out of gas . Davis did not have his best game either.

I have been impressed with Schroder the most out of the new guys.
   284. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: December 29, 2020 at 10:17 AM (#5996362)
There isn't a team in the NBA that George Hill wouldn't help. OKC is going to hold him until all the "recently signed/traded" time limits are up and then gouge the first contending team that develops a need for a 25 MPG rotation guard that can run the point and shoot.

I've been thinking about this lately too. Hill checks off just about every box in terms of contender needs: outside shooter, perimeter/team defender, secondary ballhandler/initiator, demonstrated playoff performer. He's my pick as this year's role player who generates a bidding war and gets dealt for more than a first rounder. I think there are at least a handful of teams who'd gladly deal their pick for him, and it certainly helps that his salary is easier to match than most useful guards/wings.

It's also some kind of wizardry that tanking OKC walked out of a 4-team trade with 3 presumptive playoff teams (MIL/DEN/NOP) getting a veteran who'd really help each of them. When Hill gets traded for 2 first rounders or a first + a prospect, OKC will have effectively traded 1 very expensive year of Steven Adams for 3 firsts and 2 seconds or thereabouts.

I also find it remarkable how Sam Presti's GM tenure to this point can basically be split into 2 diametrically opposed halves: (1) where he drafted brilliantly and was terrible with trades, and (2) where he's drafted poorly and traded exceptionally well.
   285. tshipman Posted: December 29, 2020 at 11:38 AM (#5996386)
I also find it remarkable how Sam Presti's GM tenure to this point can basically be split into 2 diametrically opposed halves: (1) where he drafted brilliantly and was terrible with trades, and (2) where he's drafted poorly and traded exceptionally well.


He's better at setting the table than clearing it.

The drafting was pretty much the same the whole time: he takes toolsy athletic guys, and hopes they develop a shot. It's just the quality of the guy he takes goes up and down based on where he is in the draft, and sometimes the guy figures it out and sometimes they don't.
   286. aberg Posted: December 29, 2020 at 03:22 PM (#5996429)
While two wins didn't make Minnesota a contender, they were two very fun and entertaining wins, and it was pretty disheartening for KAT's wrist to explode that quickly.

The drafting was pretty much the same the whole time: he takes toolsy athletic guys, and hopes they develop a shot. It's just the quality of the guy he takes goes up and down based on where he is in the draft, and sometimes the guy figures it out and sometimes they don't.


It has been a while since anyone figured it out. He hasn't drafted a good player since Adams in 2013 (?). At least he has given himself lots of chances to swing and miss.
   287. tshipman Posted: December 29, 2020 at 03:33 PM (#5996432)
He hasn't drafted a good player since Adams in 2013 (?).

Um excuse me, but have you heard the good word of
D O R T
O O
R  R
T    T 


More seriously, Cameron Payne looks like he might be a player, and the thunder haven't drafted higher than 21 outside of Payne, so it's not shocking that they don't have a ton of rotation players from the draft.
   288. aberg Posted: December 29, 2020 at 04:43 PM (#5996453)
More seriously, Cameron Payne looks like he might be a player, and the thunder haven't drafted higher than 21 outside of Payne, so it's not shocking that they don't have a ton of rotation players from the draft.


Yeah, I don't think he's been a disaster, just nothing special. The part that's funny to me is how many time he's gone back to the well on uber athletes who could become Kawhi Leonard if they learn how to shoot and dribble, but none of them have learned how to shoot or dribble (Jones, Bazeley, Dort, Ferguson, Diallo, Roberson, TLC).
   289. . . . . . . Posted: December 29, 2020 at 05:58 PM (#5996474)
The theory I've heard is that it is effectively impossible to outdraft the field for a sustained period, regardless of how good a GM you are. Reason being that it is too easy for others to reverse engineer what you're doing if you do find an inefficiency to exploit (all the necessary info is public), so sustained success would require constantly coming up with new ideas that allow you to beat the market, and that's effectively impossible.

By contrast, that sort of reverse engineering is much harder to do for trade jujitsu or player development, so those advantages are more sustainable (though even those ultimately regress to the mean as people from your front office disperse throughout the league).

And this is pretty much universal in all pro sports with a draft.
   290. puck Posted: December 29, 2020 at 06:09 PM (#5996477)
#289, I thought I was in the tab with the Cubs/Darvish thread and that comment made sense, so I guess it checks out.

Didn't Jerry West have a long run with the trade jujitsu though? And Red Auerbach, but it may not be useful to go back that far.
   291. aberg Posted: December 29, 2020 at 06:14 PM (#5996480)
Didn't Jerry West have a long run with the trade jujitsu though? And Red Auerbach, but it may not be useful to go back that far.


It has always seemed to me like West had a great intuitive sense for how players and skill sets will fit together. He got credit for pushing back on the Warriors trading Klay Thompson in a package for Kevin Love. That seemed insane to me, even to the point that I didn't want Klay back as the centerpiece as a Wolves fan. In reality, Klay became a perfect partner for Curry- he didn't need the ball to be an offensive force and he could guard the best perimeter player on the other team to keep Steph fresh/protected. If the accounts about the negotiations are true, he saw all of that coming together for GSW before those players were even close to their peaks.
   292. tshipman Posted: December 29, 2020 at 06:23 PM (#5996483)
Almost completely agree with 289, with the only caveat that it is possible to avoid some of the most obvious busts.
   293. asinwreck Posted: December 29, 2020 at 06:57 PM (#5996487)
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
2h
Memphis Grizzlies guard Ja Morant has suffered a Grade 2 sprain of his left ankle and will miss three to five weeks, team says.
   294. asinwreck Posted: December 29, 2020 at 08:48 PM (#5996502)
The Heat and Bulls are very different teams, but they have a couple things in common. Both are giving young gunners (Tyler Herro, Coby White) early starts at PG in hopes they will improve as floor leaders. The second thing may be related to the first. Both have now given up 83 points by halftime.
   295. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: December 29, 2020 at 09:58 PM (#5996516)
Pistons may not win a dozen games. 2019 pick Sekou Doumbouya still looks incredibly raw. 2020 pick Killian Hayes is driving the struggle bus. Lot of fun in Detroit.
   296. Hombre Brotani Posted: December 30, 2020 at 12:58 AM (#5996543)
The Bucks shot 56.9% from long range, the 29 made 3s (out of 51 attempts) is an NBA record.

I love the NBA and all that, but I don't like this.
   297. Tin Angel Posted: December 30, 2020 at 01:24 AM (#5996546)
The Bucks shot 56.9% from long range, the 29 made 3s (out of 51 attempts) is an NBA record.

I love the NBA and all that, but I don't like this.


What, would you prefer to watch Shaq post up Greg Ostertag 30 times a game?
   298. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: December 30, 2020 at 01:42 AM (#5996549)
The Bucks shot 56.9% from long range, the 29 made 3s (out of 51 attempts) is an NBA record.

I love the NBA and all that, but I don't like this.
the funny thing is that the bucks have enough talent that they don't even need to spike like that to win games.

if washington or charlotte or chicago shot 60 3s per game, that might be the best chance they have to win, and so that style of play would be...understandable. but the bucks don't even need to play this way. in fact, it seems more likely than not to hurt them when games actually matter in the playoffs.
   299. Hombre Brotani Posted: December 30, 2020 at 02:47 AM (#5996553)
What, would you prefer to watch Shaq post up Greg Ostertag 30 times a game?
Something in-between would be nice. If the shot is falling, I don't blame teams for bombing away, but the one-dimensionality of that sort of thing is numbing.
   300. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: December 30, 2020 at 08:36 AM (#5996563)
Sucks for Lacob's bank account, but basketball wise it's not like Wiggins is taking minutes away from some great prospect. Oubre seemed like a solid pickup for the exception space.


Sucks for his bank account is right, the article I read said that Oubre's contract increased their luxury tax bill by $68 million. Link. Oubre is okay as a rotation guy, but damn.

Miles Turner needs a new team. I get that Sabonis has outpaced him, but Turner was slandered pretty hard this offseason for a guy I think is good.

Fun factoid after four games: Jokic is leading the league in both assists and turnovers.
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