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Friday, December 18, 2020

NBA 2020 Season kick-off thread

I estimate it would take 10-12 Primates to beat James Harden in a wing eating contest.

Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: December 18, 2020 at 02:28 PM | 3341 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: best shape of his life, nba, off-topic

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   2801. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: April 27, 2021 at 02:20 AM (#6015623)
Flip
   2802. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: April 27, 2021 at 09:26 AM (#6015638)
#Sixers coach Doc Rivers on 0-4 record last week: 'We did have a lot of guys out, but we didn't play well no matter who's on the floor. We have to get back to our tempo

Did anyone else read this and immediately have visions of Doc Rivers running practice like JK Simmons in Whiplash, with Tyrese Maxey in the Miles Teller role initiating sets over and over?
   2803. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: April 27, 2021 at 10:12 AM (#6015646)
Why do websites publish these awful playoff odds?

If I had a computer model that spit out title odds of 2% for the Lakers (currently only +350 at MGM) and 7% for the Nets (+250) or 38% for the Jazz (+800) I'd just not publish my computer model.

I get that modeling the NBA Playoffs isn't easy because you can't just use regular season power ratings/results and expect them to generate playoff percentages, but it's also very obvious that you can't just do that and yet people keep doing it for some reason.
   2804. tshipman Posted: April 27, 2021 at 11:43 AM (#6015662)
You got annoyed and you linked it for discussion. They don't care if it's accurate or not.
   2805. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: April 27, 2021 at 12:04 PM (#6015664)
You got annoyed and you linked it for discussion. They don't care if it's accurate or not.


You're right and I shouldn't have linked it. I guess I just wonder if A the writer know his numbers are bad and doesn't care B the writer does not know his numbers are bad.
   2806. aberg Posted: April 27, 2021 at 05:42 PM (#6015732)
It's maddening that the Wolves have started to play well just in time to likely play their way out of the bottom three records that get the best lottery odds. For anyone not following this cluster, their pick goes to GS if it's out of the top 3.
   2807. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 27, 2021 at 05:46 PM (#6015733)
It's maddening that the Wolves have started to play well just in time to likely play their way out of the bottom three records that get the best lottery odds. For anyone not following this cluster, their pick goes to GS if it's out of the top 3.
oh no. a team that's won the lottery 3 times in the last 7 years has slightly lesser odds than they might otherwise. que terrible


no, i'm not salty because of jahlil okafor. you're salty because of jahlil okafor.
   2808. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 27, 2021 at 05:55 PM (#6015735)
on an unrelated note, trade machine: who says no?

ORL: andrew wiggins
GSW: terrence ross, shitty MFer.
   2809. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: April 27, 2021 at 06:07 PM (#6015738)
Has anyone noticed how petulant Kevin Love has gotten in the last 3 years? That contract extension has been a disaster.
   2810. aberg Posted: April 27, 2021 at 07:12 PM (#6015747)
oh no. a team that's won the lottery 3 times in the last 7 years has slightly lesser odds than they might otherwise. que terrible


Twice. Speaking of Kevin Love, the other two #2 picks they had were traded for him (Wiggins and the original Ant Man Anthony Bennett).

   2811. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 27, 2021 at 07:38 PM (#6015751)
a natinal treasure:
3613. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:36 AM (#5714839)
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn 2m2 minutes ago

ESPN reporting with @WindhorstESPN: Cavaliers forward Kevin Love has signed a four-year, $120 million contract extension --- topping out his overall deal at five-years, $145 million, league sources tell ESPN.
3614. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:38 AM (#5714842)
Do the Cavs have a plan? Asking for a friend.
3615. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:39 AM (#5714844)
What the actual ####?
3618. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:53 AM (#5714861)
Hoping other teams will be as stupid as you are seems a bad way to go about things.
3619. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: July 24, 2018 at 11:56 AM (#5714864)
Nobody asked if they had a good plan.
3621. jmurph Posted: July 24, 2018 at 12:04 PM (#5714869)
Holy ####, that is a terrible contract. Wow.
3623. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 24, 2018 at 12:05 PM (#5714872)
I don't get the general idea that Love's trade value is better now that he's extended. It seems to me it's worse.
3630. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: July 24, 2018 at 12:35 PM (#5714910)
I have always defended/supported Love as a player(I tend to be biased towards/defend UCLA guys--Westbrook, Ball--Ariza has always been a personal favorite) but I do not think that Love's extension is a good idea for Cleveland. I have never seen a NBA franchise/team that was more about one guy than Cleveland was about LeBron James, so I think they need to be divesting, not investing. Love is 29 and played 59 games last year, and I think the case that he is not as good as some of the metrics suggest has some merit.
3634. jmurph Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:04 PM (#5714938)
Nate Duncan @NateDuncanNBA
$30 million a year for Kevin Love through his age 34 season immediately becomes a candidate for the worst contract in the NBA. And it's even worse that it provides no present value-doesn't even kick in until next year, when Cavs likely to be even further out of contention.
3641. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:21 PM (#5714966)
I think the Cavs are a 40-ish win team. Now that those guys won't be leaning on LeBron all the time, I think you'll see better play from some of them. They aren't the garbage the media makes them out to be in the LeBron is God narrative. They really could use a rim protecting center, though. Not sure why they didn't make a play for Noel.
3643. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: July 24, 2018 at 01:23 PM (#5714972)
Kevin Love is a fine player, underrated.
This was an overpay and a mistake.
3656. Rally Posted: July 24, 2018 at 03:01 PM (#5715081)
nearly unplayable on defense in the playoffs.

That's not going to be a problem at all this year. I concur with the 30-35 win estimate for the Cavs.
3686. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: July 25, 2018 at 07:11 PM (#5715946)
The Hawks' youth movement continues apace as they sign swingman V.Carter, of North Carolina.
   2812. Fourth True Outcome Posted: April 27, 2021 at 07:55 PM (#6015752)
Would the BBTF thread do a better job of running the Cavs than Koby Altman? Maybe, maybe not, but we definitely would have let Love walk instead of extending him and replaced him with <checks notes> noted defensive standout Nerlens Noel.
   2813. mike f Posted: April 27, 2021 at 09:04 PM (#6015765)
There was some context to the Kevin Love clip. Doesn’t excuse it, but he does look a little less ridiculous.
   2814. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 27, 2021 at 09:06 PM (#6015766)
Jason Quick @jwquick
Anfernee Simons started 9-for-9 from 3-point range tonight in Indiana before missing in fourth quarter. The 9-for-9 start tied the NBA record for 3-point makes without a miss held by Ben Gordon and Latrell Sprewell.
Keith Smith @KeithSmithNBA
I really hope Boston-OKC isn't the first basketball game someone has ever watched. They would never watch another one.
Jon Hamm @JonMHamm
When Dort and Smart collide pic.twitter.com/oPPmwgaiPd

Steve Bulpett @SteveBHoop
Regarding Pritchard's failed lob pass at the start of the 2nd quarter... Luke Kornet is a lot of things. Rob Williams is not one of those things.

Tas Melas @TasMelas
The Celtics broadcasters have spent so much time praising opposing players this season. Tough year for the C's.
Keith Smith @KeithSmithNBA
A lot of teams are concerned about officiating this year. So many new and inexperienced (at the NBA level) officials due to regular refs being out with COVID. I believe @Baxter Holmes may have written about this recently. It's something teams are worried about with the playoffs looming.
   2815. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 28, 2021 at 10:04 AM (#6015829)
It's maddening that the Wolves have started to play well just in time to likely play their way out of the bottom three records that get the best lottery odds. For anyone not following this cluster, their pick goes to GS if it's out of the top 3.


I get the sentiment, but I refuse to feel bad about Towns, Russell, and Ant playing well together. The ping pong balls fall where they may, but those three playing well together - assuming such a thing is sustainable - if the surest path out of the wilderness.

I am not against some strategic tanking, but even if they do so the odds are ever NOT in their favor, so I will enjoy the wins.
   2816. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: April 28, 2021 at 10:33 AM (#6015832)
I'm with Mouse -- falling to fourth is like a 5% increase in the chance that GSW gets the pick. That's a sunk cost, and it is very lame, but I think they need to play what there is of next year's team together as much as possible.
   2817. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: April 28, 2021 at 10:38 AM (#6015833)
Also, I think Rubio will stay and Beasley will be moved, meaning that the starters for next season are Russell/Edwards/Okogie/McDaniels/Towns, which isn't good, but certainly makes more sense than whatever the #### they were doing at the start of this year.
   2818. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: April 28, 2021 at 11:44 AM (#6015838)
CoTY: Yeah, I have been thinking of PHX more in terms of Chris Paul, but Williams will get it. I think Thibodeau will finish 2nd.
Lakers/Playoffs/odds: I assume The Ringer's algorithm for that weighs recent performance heavily and the alogorithm doesn't know that James is out. So it is pretty meaningless, of course. That said, assuming that the Lakers hold on to the 5th seed (not a lock and they are only 3 up on Portland for 7th with 11 games to go) they will be looking at three series without HCA to get to the Finals, against:

Denver
Utah or Phoenix
Utah/Phoenix/Clippers

If James actually comes back and pulls that off at age 36, that would stack up to pretty much anything he has done, even if they lost in the Finals. If the Lakers drop to 6th, we will almost certainly get The Hallway Series in RD 1, which would draw a hell of lot of clicks and eyeballs for a first-round series.
   2819. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 28, 2021 at 11:55 AM (#6015841)
If James actually comes back and pulls that off at age 36, that would stack up to pretty much anything he has done, even if they lost in the Finals. If the Lakers drop to 6th, we will almost certainly get The Hallway Series in RD 1, which would draw a hell of lot of clicks and eyeballs for a first-round series.
yes truly, beating phoenix in round 2 would be the highlight of lebron's career.


no, i'm not salty because of free agency. you're salty because of free agency.
   2820. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 28, 2021 at 01:56 PM (#6015861)
872. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: November 16, 2020 at 01:11 PM (#5988989)
It’s happening, per Woj:
The Phoenix Suns are finalizing a deal to acquire Oklahoma City Thunder All-Star guard Chris Paul, sources tell ESPN.
874. tshipman Posted: November 16, 2020 at 01:14 PM (#5988992)
Sam Presti has done it again.

He somehow took salary dumps and turned them into draft picks. Absolutely remarkable.
875. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: November 16, 2020 at 01:19 PM (#5988996)
Chris Paul's contract isn't good, but I don't think that trade is that bad for the Suns*. There's value to getting to the playoffs. Now, getting stuck without a way to improve also sucks, but getting over that hump is important.

*Do they still have that magical training staff?
878. tshipman Posted: November 16, 2020 at 01:26 PM (#5989000)
The main problem I have with the trade is that Phoenix takes on all the risk.

In return for having a higher theoretical chance to make the playoffs, the Suns pay a draft pick, a large salary, and risk injury crippling not just this season, but next one, too. They pay draft capital to take on that risk. All for a team that has roughly a 0.0% chance of winning the title.
884. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: November 16, 2020 at 01:41 PM (#5989009)
...
Obviously a good deal for Presti, who seems to have perfected a playbook: if you have a uniquely valuable player, SOMEONE is going to really want them, and you have cornered the market and can get a decent return. Like, not that Chris Paul is the best player in the league, but there really is only one Chris Paul out there, and if Phoenix wants it, you have the only one. Same thing that happened with Westbrook.

As previously discussed, I don't hate it for the Suns, who are giving up a reasonably protected pick, and using cap space they probably didn't have another great use for. I think it is probably an overpay, but I also think it is a good basketball move.
885. jmurph Posted: November 16, 2020 at 01:47 PM (#5989010)
Side note, that Rubio contract is an under the radar monstrosity.

Love this deal for OKC, and agree with Spivey they'll probably be able to turn Oubre into something.

EDIT: To be clear I kind of like Rubio? It's just, I can't believe Phoenix gave him 3 years/$51 million last year.
886. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: November 16, 2020 at 01:56 PM (#5989014)
EDIT: To be clear I kind of like Rubio? It's just, I can't believe Phoenix gave him 3 years/$51 million last year.
This is part of why I think the Paul deal is a decent option for the Suns. They haven't really shown any ability to use cap space well, whether that's due to nobody wanting to play in Phoenix or due to bad judgment.

889. spivey Posted: November 16, 2020 at 02:29 PM (#5989027)
I also think this move is bad if you're Phoenix. But I'm maybe starting to come around to Booker being an ok guy to build around. At the very least, Phoenix's best hope to build around, and maybe they felt this was necessary to keep him happy.




891. NJ in NJ Posted: November 16, 2020 at 02:53 PM (#5989034)
As someone who detests KD and Kyrie, I love the idea of a KD and Kyrie team adding James Harden. The inevitable playoff collapse would be too delicious.
   2821. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 28, 2021 at 01:58 PM (#6015862)
i should stop doing this block posts for a page or two.


quick: someone say something controversial (but not racist) so we can blow up this page and get to a fresh one.
   2822. SteveF Posted: April 28, 2021 at 02:08 PM (#6015864)
I think you should keep on posting messages with large numbers of block quotes.

Although, some opinions may be so contrary that they can't generate controversy and are instead dismissed as the ravings of a lunatic mind.
   2823. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: April 28, 2021 at 02:19 PM (#6015865)
I admit when I see those huge blocks of past quotes with no explanation or seemingly point I skip right on past them.
   2824. aberg Posted: April 28, 2021 at 02:29 PM (#6015867)
I would vote Quin Snyder for CoTY.
   2825. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: April 28, 2021 at 02:58 PM (#6015870)
I am all for reposting my proven-correct opinions.
   2826. aberg Posted: April 28, 2021 at 03:01 PM (#6015871)
I'm with Mouse -- falling to fourth is like a 5% increase in the chance that GSW gets the pick. That's a sunk cost, and it is very lame, but I think they need to play what there is of next year's team together as much as possible.


I agree, it's just very Wolvesy to pick right now to finally start playing ok.

Also, I think Rubio will stay and Beasley will be moved, meaning that the starters for next season are Russell/Edwards/Okogie/McDaniels/Towns, which isn't good, but certainly makes more sense than whatever the #### they were doing at the start of this year.


You're probably right about Beasley, though this doesn't seem like the time to maximize value in trading him out. His stats have been good, but coming off a suspension and an injury have to hurt. Not sure what'd they'd try to get in return. If they could a mid-1st pick after losing their own, that might be worth it. Otherwise, I wouldn't mind him being the 6th man. A Rubio/Beasley bench backcourt would be pretty dangerous.
   2827. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: April 28, 2021 at 03:03 PM (#6015873)
When Chris Paul joins / leaves teams (prorated to 82 game seasons where relevant):

2006 joined NOK +20 wins
2012 joined LAC +18 wins, left NOH -20 wins
2018 joined HOU +10 wins, left LAC -9 wins
2020 joined OKC +1 win, left HOU -3 wins
2021 joined PHX +19 wins, left OKC -22 wins

   2828. spivey 2 Posted: April 28, 2021 at 03:31 PM (#6015879)
I'm not sure I underestimated Chris Paul, but I did underestimate the rest of their team. And probably just underappreciated that they were pretty solid last year.
   2829. jmurph Posted: April 28, 2021 at 03:39 PM (#6015883)
I think the jury is still out on whether Paul/Phoenix were underestimated until the playoffs start.

(I mostly like the recap posts, for the record.)
   2830. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 28, 2021 at 03:43 PM (#6015888)
When Chris Paul joins / leaves teams (prorated to 82 game seasons where relevant):

2006 joined NOK +20 wins
2012 joined LAC +18 wins, left NOH -20 wins
2018 joined HOU +10 wins, left LAC -9 wins
2020 joined OKC +1 win, left HOU -3 wins
2021 joined PHX +19 wins, left OKC -22 wins
it's almost like he's one of the 5 best PGs of all time. of all time.
(I mostly like the recap posts, for the record.)
some of them are less bad than others.
   2831. tshipman Posted: April 28, 2021 at 03:44 PM (#6015889)
Do people think Phoenix is a title contender?

Like, fair play to the Suns, they've played well, but they've also been outrageously lucky with health, have gotten lucky with good clutch play and opponent shooting, and have benefitted from home court all year.

To me, they still look like a team whose ceiling is the second round.
   2832. aberg Posted: April 28, 2021 at 03:50 PM (#6015891)
Do people think Phoenix is a title contender?

Like, fair play to the Suns, they've played well, but they've also been outrageously lucky with health, have gotten lucky with good clutch play and opponent shooting, and have benefitted from home court all year.

To me, they still look like a team whose ceiling is the second round.


I think they have 5-10% title odds. I don't know if I'd say "ceiling" is 2nd round, but I think that's their most likely endpoint, which is pretty good!

True about health luck, especially with Paul. I don't know if regular season injuries predict playoff injuries or not, but that's money in the bank so far.

Paul's teams are usually good in clutch games because he makes his teams great in half-court offense. That's not a fluke.

I thought I read that the HCA for small crowds dried up as the year went on, but that is a fair critique.

From a very wide angle, they have an elite PG, an all-star caliber scoring guard, some wings who are too good to just be fungible types (Bridges and Crowder), and a versatile, decent rotation of big men who can give them different looks. As long as they don't bomb out in the first round, I'd consider this an excellent year for Suns fans (and that's how my 86 year old, die hard Suns fan grandma sees it, too).
   2833. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: April 28, 2021 at 04:03 PM (#6015893)
You're probably right about Beasley, though this doesn't seem like the time to maximize value in trading him out. His stats have been good, but coming off a suspension and an injury have to hurt. Not sure what'd they'd try to get in return. If they could a mid-1st pick after losing their own, that might be worth it. Otherwise, I wouldn't mind him being the 6th man. A Rubio/Beasley bench backcourt would be pretty dangerous.

I like Beasley, but he's on a very reasonable contract and they're going to be right up against it, salary-cap wise, next season. Obviously they'll desperately try to get off of Culver (lightly used! very lightly used!) but otherwise, where's the money going to go? If they keep the pick, I expect them to be aggressive about possibly moving Rubio, too.
   2834. Mike A Posted: April 28, 2021 at 04:19 PM (#6015895)
It always amazes me when I go to Basketball Reference and see how highly Chris Paul ranks in several career measures:

VORP 7th
Box Plus/Minus 5th
Win Shares 12th
PER 9th

How good is Chris Paul? Is he as inner-inner circle as some of these stats (admittedly somewhat flawed and lacking for pre-80s players) suggest?
   2835. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 28, 2021 at 04:21 PM (#6015897)
How good is Chris Paul? Is he as inner-inner circle as some of these stats (admittedly somewhat flawed and lacking for pre-80s players) suggest?
it's almost like he's one of the 5 best PGs of all time. of all time.
   2836. Mike A Posted: April 28, 2021 at 04:47 PM (#6015908)
it's almost like he's one of the 5 best PGs of all time. of all time.
Yeah, and I think many would agree. That said...

ESPN had him as the 40th best player of all-time, behind Iverson, McHale, Isiah, Wade, and Nash. And that seems to be the general consensus on Paul, a roughly top 30-50 guy. But that stats at least somewhat suggest he should rank quite a bit higher. I think the lack of playoff success has really hurt his narrative.

I still can't believe the Hawks picked Marvin Williams over him.
   2837. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: April 28, 2021 at 05:01 PM (#6015912)
Do people think Phoenix is a title contender?

This year? Sure. They have quite a bit of variance in potential outcomes; I wouldn't be surprised to see them lose to any of the West teams in the first round* and I wouldn't be surprised if they ending up winning 3 series in the West**. In a year like this, with no teams that have clearly separated themselves and with every team having an obviously fatal flaw or two, I think it's silly to declare with any sort of confidence that a team as good as these Suns has a "ceiling".

*Likely causes ranging from so much inexperience to Paul getting hurt
**Every other team has such obvious question marks, I don't see a single team today*** in the West that I would declare with certainty is a clear favorite in a series against the Suns.
***Footnote inside a footnote, nice. I can say this because today, because the Lakers are far from healthy and every other team is just as unproven as PHX.


---

Asking everyone here, who are the title contenders in your mind right now?
   2838. spivey 2 Posted: April 28, 2021 at 05:02 PM (#6015913)
Chris Paul is in the same tier as Nash and Wade. All 3 are much, much better than Iverson and McHale. Backpicks has all 3 of those guys (Wade, Paul, Nash) at around 20th. I think that's around where they were ranked when we did the last all-time thread rankings. That looks about right to me.

Once you get past the very inner circle guards, that's the next group. I think on peak they all compare favorably to Kobe.
   2839. aberg Posted: April 28, 2021 at 06:35 PM (#6015935)

I still can't believe the Hawks picked Marvin Williams over him.


The jury may still be out on that one.

I like Beasley, but he's on a very reasonable contract and they're going to be right up against it, salary-cap wise, next season. Obviously they'll desperately try to get off of Culver (lightly used! very lightly used!) but otherwise, where's the money going to go? If they keep the pick, I expect them to be aggressive about possibly moving Rubio, too.


I think that's right. I'm not in the mood to defend Rosas, but one thing he has done well is built decent depth without spending money or assets on it. McLaughlin, Nowell, McDaniels, Vanderbilt, and Reid would make up a good bench unit (McDaniels is probably already overqualified for that job. You could flip Juancho or Layman in there). Bolmaro is apparently playing very well abroad right now. Having cheap depth at least gives a little wiggle room at the top end.
   2840. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: April 28, 2021 at 07:18 PM (#6015941)
I had a whole post on Randle's midrange shooting typed up and never posted it. Oh well.

who are the title contenders in your mind right now?

Roughly in order, with distinctions between tiers much more significant than within one:

DEFINITELY CONTENDERS IF HEALTHY
Utah
LAL
LAC
Milwaukie
Brooklyn
Phoenix
Philly

AWKWARD COMBINATION OF SECOND-TIER CONTENDERS AND HIGH-VARIANCE TEAMS WHO CAN LOSE OR WIN AGAINST ANYONE
Denver
Boston
Miami
Dallas

I knew my list was going to be bigger than normal, but damn. It's been a weird season and I do not think this regular season is as predictive as a normal one.
   2841. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: April 28, 2021 at 08:34 PM (#6015959)
I think that's right. I'm not in the mood to defend Rosas, but one thing he has done well is built decent depth without spending money or assets on it. McLaughlin, Nowell, McDaniels, Vanderbilt, and Reid would make up a good bench unit (McDaniels is probably already overqualified for that job. You could flip Juancho or Layman in there). Bolmaro is apparently playing very well abroad right now. Having cheap depth at least gives a little wiggle room at the top end.

He's done well at the bottom end, I think that's inarguable. I still wish he'd drafted Ball, and really, anybody but Culver last year, but.
   2842. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 28, 2021 at 08:56 PM (#6015965)
george hill down.


but not out.
   2843. tshipman Posted: April 28, 2021 at 09:22 PM (#6015975)
Asking everyone here, who are the title contenders in your mind right now?


LAC
LAL
DEN
Milwaukee
Brooklyn
Philly

That's pretty much it.
   2844. SteveF Posted: April 28, 2021 at 09:50 PM (#6016002)
I'd take Phoenix over Denver. I think Denver is just too vulnerable to switching defenses without Murray. I don't think Phoenix can win either, but they are more versatile on offense and defense.

I guess I eliminate Utah (I suspect for the same reasons TShip did) because they have the same defensive issues they've always had. They have issues with elite wings and they can only play drop against high PnR.

So I guess I'd limit it to the Lakers, Clippers, Sixers, Bucks, and Nets. I like the Lakers because of their offensive and defensive versatility, provided they are healthy. It's just a pretty well constructed roster + LeBron + a switchable big (Davis).
   2845. spivey 2 Posted: April 28, 2021 at 09:59 PM (#6016014)
I don't have a problem including Utah or Phoenix. Utah I think outscored Denver in their series last year. They have playoff problems, but they've been really good this year.

Ultimately, I think the best teams if healthy are the Lakers and Brooklyn. But the Lakers have dealt with injury issues for AD and LeBron and they need both. And there's no way I'm trusting Brooklyn's health - though they're the best team if they can make it through the grind. And things look like they may be setting up for a relatively easy path for them, though the seedings are still very fluid. And I think your Utah's and Phoenix's of the world can win a title with those two out of the way.
   2846. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 28, 2021 at 10:00 PM (#6016015)
AWKWARD COMBINATION OF SECOND-TIER CONTENDERS AND HIGH-VARIANCE TEAMS WHO CAN LOSE OR WIN AGAINST ANYONE
Denver
Boston
Miami
Dallas
dallas does not belong in this group.

portland might.


phoenix should probably get demoted into this group, too.
   2847. tshipman Posted: April 28, 2021 at 10:21 PM (#6016028)
I'd take Phoenix over Denver. I think Denver is just too vulnerable to switching defenses without Murray. I don't think Phoenix can win either, but they are more versatile on offense and defense.


So let me start out by saying that this POV is reasonable.

Denver has been fantastic since the Gordon trade (22-6 in March and April), and Jokic was a real matchup issue for most teams in the West last year. If MPJ is capable of this level of performance, then Denver is absolutely a contender.
   2848. Mike A Posted: April 28, 2021 at 10:43 PM (#6016051)
Marvin Williams over Deron Williams and Chris Paul was a classic case of drafting (cough) talent over need. The Hawks decided to roll with Tyronn Lue and Royal Ivey at the point while picking up yet another forward in Williams. He had such upside!

To be fair, Marvin had a perfectly cromulent 15-year NBA career, even if it was arguably the most boring career of all-time.

From Chris Paul: "I stood up at the draft (while the #2 pick was being read). The Hawks pretty much told me they were picking me. I found a house (in Atlanta) and everything."
   2849. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 28, 2021 at 10:46 PM (#6016052)
From Chris Paul: "I stood up at the draft (while the #2 pick was being read). The Hawks pretty much told me they were picking me. I found a house (in Atlanta) and everything."
ATL was probably turned off by the fact that he didn't punch enough people in the nuts.
   2850. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: April 29, 2021 at 02:15 AM (#6016068)
How good is Chris Paul?


I think he is the most underrated all-time great, and is one of the three best PGs of all time, along with Magic Johnson and Stephen Curry.

Contenders: I think there are eight teams that can win it. The most likely to win it is hard to say right now. All things being equal, I would go with the Lakers, but given the health concerns and the playoff draw they will be dealing with, that is a reach. Looking at it from the "most likely to reach the Finals" POV I'd go:

WEST
LAC
DEN
LAL
UTA
PHX

EAST
MIL
BRK
PHL

Of course, I thought it would likely be LAC/MIL last year, too. No Finals matchups involving those eight teams would surprise me.

   2851. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: April 29, 2021 at 03:22 AM (#6016069)
I agree with everything in [2846], which is awkward.
   2852. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: April 29, 2021 at 09:15 AM (#6016083)
Here are the title odds right now at BetMGM:

Nets +250
Lakers +350
Clippers +500
Bucks +800
Jazz +800
76ers +1000
Suns +1400
Heat +2500
Nuggets +3000
BOS or DAL or POR +5000

Nuggets were down to around +1400 before the Murray injury. I'm surprised 76ers aren't solidly ahead of the Bucks.

I'm starting to think the Lakers are over-rated. They won last year against much weaker competition than they'll face this year. My current feelings about the Lakers remind me my feelings about the Cavs right before they swept the Raptors as a +165 underdog in 2018.

EDIT - Hindsight has turned that Raptors sweep into an inevitability, but they were a big underdog at the time! NBA betting odds are pretty sharp and I'd imagine some sharp bettors were taking the Raptors while maybe more casual bettors were on the Cavs. So I guess score one for the casual bettors? But also maybe LeBron's teams have been so good in the playoffs that it's almost weirdly hurting his legacy by making all of his opponents seem like chumps. Or something.
   2853. SteveF Posted: April 29, 2021 at 09:28 AM (#6016085)
Other smart people seem to like Denver and knowing myself to be something short of basketball omniscient, I'd probably put money on Denver at those odds.
   2854. jmurph Posted: April 29, 2021 at 10:20 AM (#6016096)
It's a cliche at this point but health rules all this year, to me. I think Brooklyn is, by a lot, the best team in the east, but like others have said I don't know how you can trust their health at all. If LeBron isn't 100% I think the Lakers are very beatable. I'm not 100% sure Kawhi is even on the Clippers any more. Etc. This is a very weird year.
   2855. tshipman Posted: April 29, 2021 at 12:18 PM (#6016115)
I'm a Lakers fan, so maybe I'm not objective, but the reasons why the Lakers are a top contender are because they're the team with the fewest questions aside from health.

They have a good offense with LeBron, and a great defense all the time that can throw different looks at teams.

No team has a good answer to the AD at center lineups.
   2856. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: April 29, 2021 at 12:29 PM (#6016117)
I think those seem like really short odds on Brooklyn. To me there are two major things that could doom the Nets:

1) Health. All their key players have health concerns. Even if they are all available by the playoffs, I doubt they will be near 100%.
2) Defense. What the Nets are trying to do (all O, no D) is largely unprecedented as a success blueprint. It's not like they have a switch to flip when they get to the playoffs like that Shaq/Kobe team that's always cited. They're likely to have some series where they get a bunch of 3s rained on them and then what?

I think either of these could by itself be a fatal flaw. And even if neither is, are they better than a tossup in the ECF or Finals? I don't see it. So I'd have them at something like 6-1 or 7-1. I wouldn't be shocked even if they lost in the first round, not expecting it but I think there is like a 10 percent chance.

My position is basically the same as it has been all season: the Lakers are favorites but this is a very wide open year, especially relative to recent times. I think the Lakers at +350 is reasonable (which are very high odds for an NBA favorite) and I'd redistribute some of the Brooklyn odds to everyone else.
   2857. spivey 2 Posted: April 29, 2021 at 12:46 PM (#6016120)
Nobody talks about the Spurs, because they shouldn't because they have an utterly forgettable team. But it's impressive to me they've managed to be 31-30 without anyone who actually seems particularly good. Team is young and seems like it could improve quickly if they get a good max player type, though.
   2858. aberg Posted: April 29, 2021 at 01:18 PM (#6016125)
I'd rate it as:

I think the champ will come from this group- Brooklyn, LAL, LAC
I wouldn't be shocked if the champ came from this group- Philly, Milwaukee, Denver
I'd be surprised, but can imagine it- Utah, Phoenix

Pushing Denver down now seems like a combination of two lines of thought I don't believe are fully true. First, it seems to suggest that Denver would rely on and get the version of Murray from the bubble. That player was insane and they pushed a Lakers team that was firing on all cylinders. They were playing great during this season with a really good version of Murray, but not that supernova version. Also, MPJ has grown extremely quickly. If you don't buy it or think he'll get exposed in the playoffs, that's a fair reason to discount them, but given how little actual basketball he has played, I'm buying the insane pace of his development. Gordon also changes the profile of their team defense in a good way.
   2859. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: April 29, 2021 at 02:13 PM (#6016135)
Good and nuanced discussion.

But at the same time, it also sort of comes down to "If LeBron and AD are LeBron and AD and are available for all games, then the Lakers probably have the best chance to get it done even without HCA." And no one, including James, Davis, Pelinka, Vogel, and Jeannie Buss, knows whether that will be the case.

Denver: I have been a skeptic, but with the Gordon acquisition and Jokic's continued development, I can see a moment for them if the LA teams are not at 100%.

Utah: I get the skepticism, but I said earlier in the year that I think that they could be one of those no-superstar/but covered everywhere teams who is able to get in in the right circumstances. I still think so.

San Antonio: Like I have said a few times, although no one talks about them anymore for obvious reasons, I think the post-Leonard years are yet more evidence of how good Popovich is at his job.
   2860. tshipman Posted: April 29, 2021 at 02:47 PM (#6016140)
But at the same time, it also sort of comes down to "If LeBron and AD are LeBron and AD and are available for all games, then the Lakers probably have the best chance to get it done even without HCA." And no one, including James, Davis, Pelinka, Vogel, and Jeannie Buss, knows whether that will be the case.


I think that some people think the Nets are better at full health.
   2861. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: April 29, 2021 at 03:04 PM (#6016151)

I think that some people think the Nets are better at full health.


Understandable, but I think the Lakers's D would give them the edge there.
   2862. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: April 29, 2021 at 03:13 PM (#6016153)
I guess I eliminate Utah (I suspect for the same reasons TShip did) because they have the same defensive issues they've always had. They have issues with elite wings and they can only play drop against high PnR.


The last isn't true at all. Gobert has become one of the very best switching centers in the game, and does not have to play drop coverage on the P&R. Now they are absolutely a much better defense if they can keep him near the rim, so I think even in the playoffs there's only a few teams they should seriously consider changing their primary defensive scheme -- with no Murray Nuggets don't concern me nearly as much, but Suns come to mind because I think both Paul and Booker are efficient enough in midrange he can't give them easy looks like he can against most players. And of course if they play Blazers or Warriors he has to get out on Steph and Lilliard.

Jazz having no great perimeter defenders to check elite guards or wings is my biggest concern though. I mean Royce is good but I don't think he's even a third-team all defense guy and he's easily the 2nd best defender on the team. But that does make it even funnier to me that people actually think Simmons is even in the same universe as Rudy as a defender this season.

I think if full strength both LA teams are a slight tier above the Jazz, but I don't see either as unbeatable even then and I'm skeptical that Lakers will ever be 100% this season. Then Phoenix is same tier as Jazz and honestly Denver might still be even without Murray. Dallas is probably the best team in the west I'd be surprised if the Jazz lose to, but with Luka it would not be shocking at all.
   2863. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: April 29, 2021 at 03:23 PM (#6016155)
Understandable, but I think the Lakers's D would give them the edge there.


This is where I'm at with the Nets too. It's hard to see Durant, Harden, and Irving and not think they're easily the best team if healthy, but has any team ever won it all with the 25th best defense? And it's not like that Shaq Lakers team where they clearly had a high defensive ceiling in the playoffs and just didn't try in the regular season. The 16 Cavs might be the best example for them, but again I don't think Nets have anyone close to the defensive ability of a Lebron who is actually trying.
   2864. tshipman Posted: April 29, 2021 at 03:27 PM (#6016157)
The last isn't true at all. Gobert has become one of the very best switching centers in the game, and does not have to play drop coverage on the P&R. Now they are absolutely a much better defense if they can keep him near the rim, so I think even in the playoffs there's only a few teams they should seriously consider changing their primary defensive scheme -- with no Murray Nuggets don't concern me nearly as much, but Suns come to mind because I think both Paul and Booker are efficient enough in midrange he can't give them easy looks like he can against most players. And of course if they play Blazers or Warriors he has to get out on Steph and Lilliard.


Gobert has been a liability on defense in the playoffs every year of the last three. He has to actually prove that he's improved for me to believe it.
   2865. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: April 29, 2021 at 03:45 PM (#6016163)
Gobert has been a liability on defense in the playoffs every year of the last three. He has to actually prove that he's improved for me to believe it.


No he hasn't. He has not been as effective in the playoffs, but calling him a liability is just straight up wrong and blaming him for how awful the Jazz perimeter defense has been. They were a significant plus with him last year against Denver, and that's with Murray shooting out of his mind no matter who was on him (and yes, Rudy deserves some blame there). Rudy also wasn't nearly as good defensively last season as he was this season.

Against Houston the previous season Rudy and the whole team was awful the first two games because none of the guards or wings knew how to play Snyder's scheme correctly and Rudy was having to guard a Harden-Capella P&R by himself because the Harden defenders were waaaaaaay overdoing Snyder's shading defense giving him basically a straight path to the basket. The defense was good after that, but the offense was horrible still and the Rockets were clearly a much better team. And of course the Jazz got destroyed by the Rockets and Warriors the previous two seasons too. They also were not even in the same universe as either team those years. I have no idea what his +/- was in the Clippers or Thunder series, but he was going against the other teams best players and the Jazz obviously were able to beat them.

There are problems with Rudy in playoffs vs. regular season. There are more players who can take advantage of the typical Jazz defensive scheme and so Rudy has not been nearly as effective, as I've said. That's a huge difference from a liability, at least defensively (I think offensively his first 2-3 years he was truly an offensive liability in the playoffs).
   2866. tshipman Posted: April 29, 2021 at 04:16 PM (#6016170)
No he hasn't. He has not been as effective in the playoffs, but calling him a liability is just straight up wrong and blaming him for how awful the Jazz perimeter defense has been. They were a significant plus with him last year against Denver, and that's with Murray shooting out of his mind no matter who was on him (and yes, Rudy deserves some blame there). Rudy also wasn't nearly as good defensively last season as he was this season.


2020 playoffs:
Gobert on: 120 DRTG
Gobert off: 107.5 DRTG

Jokic: 26/8/5 on .62 TS%
   2867. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: April 29, 2021 at 04:34 PM (#6016174)
Yeah, it's almost like they made sure to only play his backup against the worst Denver lineups. He was still a +8.6 per 100 and Jokic over the whole playoffs was -3. The latter is not to claim Jokic was overmatched or something last year, but that lineups are the factor most driving playoff on/off numbers for a lot of these guys.

I think you're making the same mistake you did (at least I believe it was you, apologies if I'm mistaking you) when you criticized Lillard's playoff performance, ignoring that like with the Jazz, the Blazers have had awful performances against teams clearly out of their league. Give either a better team (and Gobert should get that chance to prove me right or wrong this season if Conley and Donovan are healthy), and their on/off numbers are going to be a lot closer to their regular season numbers.
   2868. SteveF Posted: April 29, 2021 at 04:39 PM (#6016178)
The on-off stuff can be a bit misleading since Gobert's minutes just mirrored Jokic's. Jokic not being on the court obviously hurt Denver's offense.

Denver had a 115 ORtg with Jokic on, and 111.1 off in 2019-2020 regular season. 115.5/107.4 in the playoffs.

I wouldn't say Gobert was particularly effective defensively that series, though.
   2869. tshipman Posted: April 29, 2021 at 04:42 PM (#6016181)
I think Lillard is an on-point comparison to Gobert.

Both are kind of one dimensional players who are exceptional at their primary skills in the regular season, but limit their team in the playoffs.

Lillard is terrible at getting over screens and doesn't have a high activity level off the ball. That means that if you gameplan for him, you can take away a lot of what makes him special in the regular season.

The thing that's not on point in your comment is that the Jazz/Gobert have had bad performances against teams out of their league.

Last year the Jazz had a better SRS than Denver.
In 2019, the Jazz had a better SRS than Houston
   2870. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 29, 2021 at 04:44 PM (#6016183)
UTA (home): 26-4, +14 net rating
UTA (road): 19-13, +5 net rating

DEN (home): 23-10, +6 net rating
DEN (road): 18-11, +4 net rating


both teams play at altitude, which is a substantial advantage most years, but especially with the condensed schedule this year.
   2871. tshipman Posted: April 29, 2021 at 04:46 PM (#6016184)
Utah has had fans and Denver hasn't, of course.
   2872. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: April 29, 2021 at 04:46 PM (#6016185)
I wouldn't say Gobert was particularly effective defensively that series, though.


I would not either. Jokic is basically the one big whose numbers do not dip against Rudy, though Jazz may at least doubleteam Jokic in the post less often than most.

The bigger problem that series was Murray, who also shot like 99th percentile even for the quality of defense on him. Rudy was not effective against him, but the bigger problem was Royce is not good on smaller quick guards and none of the other guards they put on him were much if any better. It was not an impressive defensive performance from Rudy at all, but he was also nothing close to a liability. They probably would have been better off with Anthony Davis or Emdiid defensively, but not sure if there are any other centers (maybe Draymond but I thought his defense was rough last year) I think would have made more of an impact.
   2873. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: April 29, 2021 at 04:48 PM (#6016186)
Last year the Jazz had a better SRS than Denver.
In 2019, the Jazz had a better SRS than Houston


They also outscored Denver and were about an inch away from beating them, despite missing Conley two games and Bogey the entire series.

The Houston SRS shocks me but does anyone really think they were the superior team? They ultimately lost that series because of offense anyway.

And I mean I do think Rudy is someone who is more valuable in the regular season than playoffs.
   2874. SteveF Posted: April 29, 2021 at 04:51 PM (#6016187)
They probably would have been better off with Anthony Davis or Emdiid defensively, but not sure if there are any other centers (maybe Draymond but I thought his defense was rough last year) I think would have made more of an impact.

Davis yes, Embiid not so much (well, not defensively). I actually considered whether I should count out Philly for the same reason, but they at least have Simmons AND Embiid this year. Last year they got destroyed by high PnR. I'm sort of expecting Simmons to make a pretty big difference for them defensively.
   2875. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 29, 2021 at 04:53 PM (#6016188)
I think Lillard is an on-point comparison to Gobert.

Both are kind of one dimensional players who are exceptional at their primary skills in the regular season, but limit their team in the playoffs.

lillard has singlehandedly carried his team to a conference finals.

gobbert has not, and will never.
   2876. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 29, 2021 at 04:58 PM (#6016190)
Davis yes, Embiid not so much (well, not defensively). I actually considered whether I should count out Philly for the same reason, but they at least have Simmons AND Embiid this year. Last year they got destroyed by high PnR. I'm sort of expecting Simmons to make a pretty big difference for them defensively.

sort of?
   2877. SteveF Posted: April 29, 2021 at 05:01 PM (#6016191)
I like to hedge.

Off topic: does curb stomp have racist overtones? I edited my post to be safer, but would like to know for future reference. Granted, this might not be the best forum for getting an informed opinion on the matter ;)
   2878. tshipman Posted: April 29, 2021 at 05:02 PM (#6016192)
I feel like Philly last year was so hampered by the coaching situation it's hard to judge.
   2879. jmurph Posted: April 29, 2021 at 05:16 PM (#6016198)
I feel like Philly last year was so hampered by the coaching situation it's hard to judge.

Embiid was terrible in that series and should take more #### for it.
   2880. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 29, 2021 at 05:18 PM (#6016201)
Embiid was terrible in that series and should take more #### for it.
he averaged 30 and 12 on 60% true shooting.
   2881. jmurph Posted: April 29, 2021 at 05:19 PM (#6016202)
Did they play any basketball on the other end of the court or no?

(Well, he didn't, but I meant generally.)
   2882. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 29, 2021 at 05:28 PM (#6016203)
Did they play any basketball on the other end of the court or no?

(Well, he didn't, but I meant generally.)
did literally any other sixer play half as well as embiid?



   2883. jmurph Posted: April 29, 2021 at 05:36 PM (#6016206)
I definitely agree that other Sixers also played poorly in that series.
   2884. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: April 29, 2021 at 05:39 PM (#6016207)
lillard has singlehandedly carried his team to a conference finals.

gobbert has not, and will never.


That's true, and Lillard > Rudy, but to partly discredit my earlier argument about Lillard, it was the least impressive trip to the WCF I can recall.

But it is funny to me that Conley's shot goes in and there's a very good chance Jazz are losing to the Lakers in the WCF last year and the perception of them (and Rudy) going into this season is vastly different.

sort of?


Well on/off numbers have shown Sixers barely notice when Simmons is playing on defense this year, but the third best defensive player on the team is still pretty important.
   2885. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: April 29, 2021 at 05:40 PM (#6016208)
Also as an aside, it is truly hilarious that the Jazz put up the franchise record for points and point differential in a game without Conley and Mitchell. Kings were without Fox, but it's very easy to see why that team has the worst dRTG of all time.
   2886. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 29, 2021 at 06:36 PM (#6016217)
Well on/off numbers have shown Sixers barely notice when Simmons is playing on defense this year, but the third best defensive player on the team is still pretty important.

the sixers rotation has been juked so that simmons and thybulle are very rarely on the floor together. that means that when the sixers' "third best defensive player" is taken off the floor, he's almost always replaced by their best defensive player.
I definitely agree that other Sixers also played poorly in that series.

and embiid was trying to drag them, kicking and screaming, to the finish.

anyone who would criticize embiid coming out of that series has the basketball IQ of a toddler.
   2887. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: April 29, 2021 at 08:56 PM (#6016226)
anyone who would criticize embiid coming out of that series has the basketball IQ of a toddler.


To be fair, my toddler does throw the remote at the screen when a team is slow to rotate leaving an open three.

(And at pretty much every other time, but who's counting.)
   2888. asinwreck Posted: April 29, 2021 at 10:18 PM (#6016232)
Kevin Porter Jr. has gone off against the Bucks tonight. 49 points with 43 seconds to go.

He's one three shy of a rare double double (11 assists, 9 threes).

EDIT: Made a FT with 16 seconds left to finish at 50 points.
   2889. jmurph Posted: April 30, 2021 at 07:48 AM (#6016246)
anyone who would criticize embiid coming out of that series has the basketball IQ of a toddler.

This is obnoxious.

The Celtics had a 124.7 ORtg when he was on the court, outscoring them by 53 points in a series in which the point differential was 47 points. I'm not questioning his manhood, or his character, or how great he is. He played terribly in that series on defense. It was discussed in this thread at the time (though I'm pretty sure you said all these same things then, too!).
   2890. jmurph Posted: April 30, 2021 at 07:57 AM (#6016247)
Huh, weird:
376. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: August 19, 2020 at 06:51 PM (#5970666)
embiid is already gassed. 4:30 into the 1st quarter.

386. tshipman Posted: August 19, 2020 at 07:21 PM (#5970679)
I'm glad I don't root for a team that employs Embiid. He is perhaps the worst conditioned top 10 NBA type player.

390. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: August 19, 2020 at 07:31 PM (#5970683)
Sixers interior defense is just a rumor.

But hey that was already the 1st quarter of game 2 of a 1st round series, he was probably just exhausted from dragging them along for 5 quarters over 3 days.
   2891. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 30, 2021 at 11:07 AM (#6016277)
Huh, weird:
i don't see anything from moses or derk.

and if you're expecting me to respect the analysis of something called a "bothsidegasms", you're barking up the wrong bush.

The Celtics had a 124.7 ORtg when he was on the court, outscoring them by 53 points in a series in which the point differential was 47 points. I'm not questioning his manhood, or his character, or how great he is. He played terribly in that series on defense. It was discussed in this thread at the time (though I'm pretty sure you said all these same things then, too!).

DRTG of every sixers who played more than 20 minutes in that series:
embiid -- 124
harris -- 122
horford -- 124
richardson -- 116
thybulle -- 123
milton -- 120
burks -- 115
neto -- 133
korkmaz - 89
scott -- 85

the whole ####### team was torched...except for two guys at the end of the bench whose minutes happened to coincide with the celtics going cold. embiid's net on-off rating in that series was -33; furkan korkmaz's net on-off rating was +44. is that difference meaninful? no. in fact, there's a word for this phenomenon #smallsamplesize.

   2892. jmurph Posted: April 30, 2021 at 11:11 AM (#6016282)
I shall give up, I don't want to be on the wrong side of stiggles long term. But you can't claim small sample size when you're talking about how someone played in ONE SERIES.
   2893. tshipman Posted: April 30, 2021 at 11:28 AM (#6016288)
Stiggles has many virtues, but consistency with previous opinions is not among them.

Frankly, it's a feature, not a bug. Stiggles exists in the ever changing prism of wiggle, and he has no time for anything but length.
   2894. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: April 30, 2021 at 11:30 AM (#6016289)
Four in a row? Break up the Wolves!
   2895. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 30, 2021 at 11:37 AM (#6016291)
401. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: August 19, 2020 at 08:22 PM (#5970703)
i need validation.
   2896. tshipman Posted: April 30, 2021 at 11:48 AM (#6016295)
I will say, credit to Embiid. With a short offseason, he looks in noticeably better shape this year.
   2897. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 30, 2021 at 11:53 AM (#6016299)
I will say, credit to Embiid. With a short offseason, he looks in noticeably better shape this year.
yeah, he lost about 240 lbs when al horford was traded to OKC.
   2898. jmurph Posted: April 30, 2021 at 12:27 PM (#6016307)
Gotta chalk it up to the influence of Certified Winner Dwight Howard.
   2899. asinwreck Posted: April 30, 2021 at 02:45 PM (#6016335)
Woj says LeBron may play tonight.
   2900. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 30, 2021 at 03:15 PM (#6016340)
Woj says LeBron may play tonight.
you smell that? that's fear. that's desperation.
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