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Friday, December 18, 2020

NBA 2020 Season kick-off thread

I estimate it would take 10-12 Primates to beat James Harden in a wing eating contest.

Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: December 18, 2020 at 02:28 PM | 3080 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: best shape of his life, nba, off-topic

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   2901. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: April 30, 2021 at 03:41 PM (#6016345)
I really respect STIGGLES schitck and trolling. I wish he'd take the bait on my trolling attempts about Simmons, but even if he never will I still enjoy it because I truly hate Simmons and think he's the whiniest and most delusional player in the NBA.
   2902. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: April 30, 2021 at 03:53 PM (#6016346)
   2903. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: April 30, 2021 at 03:54 PM (#6016347)
   2904. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: April 30, 2021 at 04:00 PM (#6016350)
To give Stigs his trolling due, the fanbase and the team are concerned about ending up in the play-in:

LAL 36-26
DAL 35-27
-----------
POR 34-28

A friend of mine is taking his kid to the game tonight, so they are ofc hoping that James does play.
   2905. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 30, 2021 at 04:10 PM (#6016351)
I really respect STIGGLES schitck and trolling. I wish he'd take the bait on my trolling attempts about Simmons, but even if he never will I still enjoy it because I truly hate Simmons and think he's the whiniest and most delusional player in the NBA.

truly, that is a pitiable attempt at trolling. you need to give it a bit of whimsy if you want to stick it in the sweet spot.
To give Stigs his trolling due, the fanbase and the team are concerned about ending up in the play-in:
and as always, it helps when you know you're picking someone else's scabs.
I shall give up, I don't want to be on the wrong side of stiggles long term. But you can't claim small sample size when you're talking about how someone played in ONE SERIES.
however, it's also important to allow for counterplay, thereby drawing the trollee even deeper into an unwinnable argument.

because just like in fishing, you don't want to lose the hook and let the grouper get away.
   2906. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: April 30, 2021 at 04:14 PM (#6016353)
and as always, it helps when you know you're picking someone else's scabs.


Sure. See 2903 for confirmation.
   2907. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 30, 2021 at 04:27 PM (#6016359)
Sure. See 2903 for confirmation.
this is primer; i don't click links.
Stiggles has many virtues, but consistency with previous opinions is not among them.

Frankly, it's a feature, not a bug. Stiggles exists in the ever changing prism of wiggle, and he has no time for anything but length.

i would actually argue that i'm more consistent than most when you adjust for the polarization of my opinions. i'm not always right, but when i'm wrong, i don't cut bait and pretend that it didn't happen.

i was a big fan of nerlens noel, and i am still a big fan of nerlens noel.
i was a big fan of jahlil okafor, but when i watch him play now, i don't see the strengths in his game that used to be there. there was a point in his career when, instead of being told "this is what you do well; do more of it", he was told "this is what you suck at; be less shitty at it". and so, instead of honing his strengths at age 21, 22, 23, 24 and turning himself into a unicorn, he regressed and turned into a poor man's mikki moore.


it should also be noted that i didn't cut bait on joel embiid when he spent two years hiking the appalachian trail.
   2908. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: April 30, 2021 at 06:13 PM (#6016383)
i would actually argue that i'm more consistent than most when you adjust for the polarization of my opinions.
None of the rest of us has enough free time to canvas the whole thread history for damning pull quotes, so you can go ahead and argue all sorts of things.
   2909. SteveF Posted: April 30, 2021 at 07:16 PM (#6016396)
If the Sixers give up 90 offensive rebounds (their current pace), I predict that they will lose this game.
   2910. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 30, 2021 at 07:16 PM (#6016397)
None of the rest of us has enough free time to canvas the whole thread history for damning pull quotes, so you can go ahead and argue all sorts of things.

#dinc
   2911. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 30, 2021 at 08:03 PM (#6016407)
john collins is getting son'd.
   2912. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: April 30, 2021 at 08:35 PM (#6016409)
Kamenetzky Brothers
@KamBrothers
·
55m
This feels like a tweet from the past coming to the present to help stop a tweet from the future. The Terminator, but in reverse. AK
Quote Tweet
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
· 1h
13-year NBA veteran Anderson Varejao plans to sign with the Cleveland Cavaliers for the remainder of the season, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. Varejao is returning to the franchise with which he’s spent 12 decorated years.
   2913. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 30, 2021 at 08:45 PM (#6016411)
there are ads for something called "girl contracting inc" on the sixers' court. i assume it's not a prostitution service.
   2914. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: April 30, 2021 at 08:47 PM (#6016412)
Could be midwifery.

Or is that too much of a dad joke?
   2915. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: April 30, 2021 at 08:49 PM (#6016413)
[double post, ish]
   2916. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 30, 2021 at 08:52 PM (#6016415)
the sixers are playing chess
the hawks are playing checkers
solomon hill is playing hockey.
   2917. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: April 30, 2021 at 09:55 PM (#6016428)
Daryl Morey @dmorey
Biggest margin of victory over 3 games (+97) in @Philadelphia 76ers history
Justin Grasso @JGrasso_
Doc Rivers on Ben Simmons’ play as of late: “Since he’s been back he’s been a tone-setter for us. He’s been amazing. I wouldn’t say this is the best he’s played all year, but it’s close” #Sixers
Rich Hoffman @rich_hofmann
BBall Paul just blocked a shot, went coast to coast and Euro-stepped around a dude for a dunk. Embiid was rolling around on the floor.
Brian Seltzer @brianseltzer
As a 35 year old I truly cannot fathom Dwight Howard doing what he's doing at age 35.
Kevin Chouinard @KLChouinard
Ben Simmons has played a hell of a game, and he has also leveraged the diplomatic immunity associated with his DPOY campaign quite well.

Brock Landes @LandesBrock
Paul Reed pins it and then dances his way to the rack...

Embiid is a fool
   2918. Fourth True Outcome Posted: April 30, 2021 at 10:30 PM (#6016435)
Jayson Tatum tied Larry Bird's Celtic record of 60 points tonight in an overtime comeback win. The Celtics were down by 32 at one point; the only games I'm confident this years' Celtics team will play well in are games where they go down big early. If they are behind by 20 in the first half, they'll either win by 5 or lose by 3 in frustrating fashion.
   2919. Fourth True Outcome Posted: April 30, 2021 at 11:39 PM (#6016440)
0 turnovers, too, which is nuts. Two behind Melo's all-time record of 62 with no turnovers. (Tied with Klay, who also had a turnoverless 60. Five more assists than Melo's zero.)
   2920. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: May 02, 2021 at 04:11 PM (#6016549)
@Tjonesonthenba
He would have been Jordan’s rival. That’s how good Len Bias was

https://twitter.com/Tjonesonthenba/status/1388938233535340546

Feels hyperbolic with no actual NBA games played, but (and not to encourage Boston fans too much) is that how good he looked?
   2921. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: May 02, 2021 at 05:34 PM (#6016554)
Playing the hits. We had multiple Bias discussions here about eleven years ago, which involved me going at it with Kevin, comparing Bias' college numbers to James Worthy's, quoting Bill Simmons, etc. Simmons has always been the #1 Bias mythologizer in the MSM. (No snark at Tom Cervo, who was not around here then). Also, most of the Boston fans here were likely in elementary/middle school or not born when Boston drafted Bias, although I do not know that for sure. It was 35 years ago.

At the moment, the 4-5 series is now LAC/DAL, and the 3-6 series is DEN/LAL. Schroder is out tonight for the Lakers due to COVID protocols.
   2922. GregD Posted: May 02, 2021 at 06:30 PM (#6016559)
Feels hyperbolic with no actual NBA games played, but (and not to encourage Boston fans too much) is that how good he looked?


He was a wonderful player and I wouldn’t put anything past a guy with his ability.

But he was also the best of a type of player who dominated eighties and early nineties college basketball but by and large struggled in the pros: the 6-6 to 6-8 very athletic forward with a little bit of handle and a little bit of shot.

Now Barkley turned out to be great. But there are a lot of highly drafted guys in that type who were amazing college players and pro mediocrities. Bias was too good to be a mediocrity but I wouldn’t be sure he’d be an nba super duper star. Beyond Barkley what other guys of that type really blossomed? Larry Johnson. Could he have been a more explosive leaping Larry Johnson?

I feel like the NBA big forward position was changing or becoming just a wing forward who rebounded and the college big forwards struggled to adjust.
   2923. tshipman Posted: May 02, 2021 at 07:07 PM (#6016564)
Len Bias has a lot of the indicators of a bust.

He had no good skills besides scoring. His rebounding was just average, his passing was not good. His steals and blocks were poor. His efficiency was just good until his senior year.

He compares more to Dominique Wilkins than Jordan, and 'Nique was basically better in every way.

But, obviously, we'll never really know, and either way it's a tragedy.
   2924. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: May 02, 2021 at 08:01 PM (#6016572)
If this turns into a thing (and I guess it could until the playoffs) I may try to dig up some of my old posts/links from the time that I found etc. Bias was picked #2 behind Brad Daugherty in 1986, and I think that Worthy, another ACC guy about five years ahead of Bias, is the most relevant comp. Worthy was a little better across the board except in FT%, where Bias was far better. Like I have said, I am older than most guys on this thread, so I was actually watching NBA basketball in the late 80s, and I do not think that Bias would have been a bust in that era. I think he would have been a very good NBA player, and it is arguable that adding a guy like him to the creaky but still talented Boston teams might have made a difference in 1987-1990 when Boston was losing to the title-winning Lakers and Pistons teams. But the key word there is "arguable"--the 1987 Lakers were a great team, and the 1989 Pistons were, too. But Bias would have Boston more dangerous, for sure, and everybody knew that when they drafted him.

That said, the idea that Simmons has put forward, and that the guy Tweeting above is echoing, which is that Bias would have anchored a 1990s Boston team that would have perhaps been going to toe-to-toe with the 1990s Bulls based on Bias being on Jordan's level is a very long reach. You would have to assume that Bias, like Jordan, was held back by the structure of college ball and would have exploded on the NBA. As John Bach, who was an assistant with the Bulls from 1986 to 1994, said after the 1993 Finals: "The thing about Michael is that God only made the one."

   2925. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 02, 2021 at 08:26 PM (#6016576)
joel embiid is being "defended" by something called a "eubanks".


this seems like a wee bit of a mismatch.
   2926. GregD Posted: May 02, 2021 at 08:28 PM (#6016577)
1986 bias was one of three consensus all American forwards (there were no centers on first teams—Daugherty made second teams):

Len Bias
Walter Berry
Kenny Walker

Berry was college player of year but didn’t project to the NBA and was taken like fourteenth

Walker was taken fifth. (Chuck Person was taken fourth, a sign that the nba was preferring shooters)

Bias second

So Bias definitely had the most excitement among them. But how much more? Would observers have traded bias for Walker and Berrys careers? (Not literally for them since you couldn’t play them together.)

My memory as a teenager was the talk of the draft was Ron Harper at number eight.
   2927. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: May 02, 2021 at 08:36 PM (#6016578)
In terms of context on Bias: Boston had just had their awesome 1986 run, and the Lakers had lost the WCF to the Olajuwon/Sampson Rockets, so it is understandable, given that, that Bill Simmons would see Bias's death the way that he does--as an historic turning point. For Simmons and many Boston fans from that time, they would think that adding Bias would have set up Boston for more titles and cemented their ascension over the Lakers as the team of the 1980s (the teams were 3-3 in 1980s trophies on the day that Bias was drafted, and Boston would not win again until 2008).

Jordan had already established himself, but the Bulls had nothing around him yet, and the NBA was still seen a Big Man's game, as the fact that Daugherty went #1 shows. So adding Bias to Bird/McHale/Parish understandably had Boston fans very hyped.
   2928. Mike A Posted: May 02, 2021 at 10:08 PM (#6016586)
I remember being so frustrated that the Celtics had lucked into the #2 pick in 1986. First, they trade Gerald Henderson for a first rounder. Gerald Henderson? Then they win the lottery. And then they get Len Bias! Bias may have had his faults - and obviously the Jordan comparison is over-the-top - but he was certainly fun to watch.

I don't think he would have rescued the dynasty, though, that team was just getting too old and as noted, Bias probably wasn't going to be that good.

That 1986 draft was filled with tragedy, failure, and frustration. You had the premature deaths of Bias and Drazen Petrovic (and later, Kevin Duckworth). The drug/alcohol abuse of Bedford, Tarpley, and Washburn. #1 pick Daugherty having to retire at 28 with injury.

The 2nd round of the that draft actually ended up with a higher VORP than the 1st round, led by Hornacek, Price, Rodman, and McMillan.
   2929. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 02, 2021 at 10:29 PM (#6016591)
holy ####; a replay review overturned the original call.
   2930. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 02, 2021 at 10:32 PM (#6016592)
i hate charges.
   2931. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 02, 2021 at 10:38 PM (#6016593)
at least it wasn't a loss.
   2932. Moeball Posted: May 03, 2021 at 12:41 AM (#6016603)
I watched GS @ HOU and, wow, I hadn't realized just how bad the Rockets are now. They led 59-53 in the 3rd quarter and Curry was ice cold (I think the announcers said he was shooting something like 2 for 11 at that point) and then the Ws ran off 24 unanswered points to take a 77-59 lead. Steph hit several 3s during the streak as he heated up and ended up scoring 23 in the 3rd quarter and the game was basically over. GS ended up winning 113-87. Yes, the Warriors got hot shooting to turn the game around, but they also got helped out a lot by Houston's lackadaisical defense. There was just no effort at all on several plays defensively leaving GS with many wide open shots. When I see that little effort from players I tend to think that's on the coach.
   2933. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: May 03, 2021 at 12:57 AM (#6016606)
The Lakers kinda suck right now.
   2934. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: May 03, 2021 at 11:19 AM (#6016645)
#1 pick Daugherty having to retire at 28 with injury.


I'd totally forgotten about that. Daugherty played HS ball in my conference (years before me). In what was a hilarious self-own, my geometry teacher had a picture of him getting stuffed by a flat-footed Daugherty.

Daugherty was an excellent pro...not on the Olajuwon/Ewing level, but he did make 5 All-Star teams in 8 years on those entertaining Price/Daugherty/Nance teams.
   2935. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: May 03, 2021 at 11:49 AM (#6016651)
Good piece on The Athletic about the Cavs/Love situation. Basically, the Cavs have shipped out JR Smith, Keven Porter and others in the name of team chemistry, only to have Love totally undermine it (mostly by omission, and some by commission). Combine that with an over-involved owner, and an over-his-head GM, and you get, well, the Cavs.
   2936. asinwreck Posted: May 03, 2021 at 01:41 PM (#6016663)
It was a pleasure watching Daugherty and Olajuwon pass the ball. Cleveland was actually pretty good for a few years in no small part due to Daugherty.
   2937. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: May 03, 2021 at 02:14 PM (#6016671)
It was a pleasure watching Daugherty and Olajuwon pass the ball. Cleveland was actually pretty good for a few years in no small part due to Daugherty.

Those Cavs teams were super fun.
   2938. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: May 03, 2021 at 02:22 PM (#6016674)
   2939. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: May 03, 2021 at 02:32 PM (#6016676)
Lakers slip in the standings plus LeBron ankle stuff has them up to +415 to win the title at Pinnacle sports book. Probably the lowest they've been. Part of me (not the rational part of me) thinks it's all a game so LeBron can drop to 7th and win 17 playoff games this year. Something Jordan never did!

EDIT - Also brings up my favorite thing that it takes "reporting" from both Ramona Shelburne AND Adrian Wojnarowski to confirm that LeBron isn't playing against Denver tonight. Definitely requires a lot of hours working sources to report such a thing.
   2940. Rally Posted: May 03, 2021 at 02:44 PM (#6016679)
Looking at the stats, and going by the video I've seen of him, trying to think what kind of profile Len Bias would have as a player.

1. Excellent scorer
2. Mid range game and could get to the line
3. Not a 3 point shooter
4. Average rebounder
5. Not a great passer
6. Good defensive potential, strong shot blocker for position

In the late 80s and early 90s, the Celtics actually had that player. Reggie Lewis, who was drafted #22 overall one year later. And also left this world too soon.

Comparing Reggie to my 6 point guess of what Bias would have done, I'd call it a match on at least 5.5 points, with the difference being that Bias might have been better at getting to the line (though in College Lewis got to the line about as often as Bias). One player of that type wasn't enough to overcome the aging of the rest of the roster. But two? You never know, if they had lived.

You might think that if Bias had lived and put up a good rookie year, they might not have drafted a similar player and instead grabbed a different player type in the following draft. I don't buy that though. Lewis was the 22nd pick, at that stage of the draft you don't draft for need, you just try to get someone who can contribute. Even with his membership in the dead at 27 club, Reggie had a better NBA career than anybody picked after him. The Celtics with Bias might have passed on Lewis, but there were no good alternatives left at that point that would have made the team better.
   2941. Rally Posted: May 03, 2021 at 02:53 PM (#6016682)
Lakers slip in the standings plus LeBron ankle stuff has them up to +415 to win the title at Pinnacle sports book. Probably the lowest they've been. Part of me (not the rational part of me) thinks it's all a game so LeBron can drop to 7th and win 17 playoff games this year. Something Jordan never did!


If they fall to 9 he'll need to win 18 games to get a title. They have a bit of a cushion, up 4 games on GSW, but if Lebron is not 100% and able to give it his all on both offense and defense then there aren't many games that I'd feel comfortable favoring the Lakers.

They are 36-28 now. If Lebron is sidelined or at best working his way back in, I could see them finishing 38-34.
   2942. jmurph Posted: May 03, 2021 at 04:01 PM (#6016690)
Less attention is being paid to the East standings, understandably, but the race for 1 strikes me as pretty important. The 2 seed has to go up against Milwaukee in the 2nd round and whatever you think of them, they're going to be a significantly better team than whoever finishes 4.

(2 could also have to play someone like Miami in the first round. I'm still convinced Miami isn't particularly good, but I imagine teams aren't exactly excited to take on Butler and Bam in the first round.)
   2943. JC in DC Posted: May 03, 2021 at 04:29 PM (#6016694)
I agree with robin about Bias, who I also got to watch back in the day. The only thing I'll add to his analysis that he was unlikely to "bust," is that Bias was improving year-to-year. He was a bit of a late bloomer. There is a case to make that he would've been quite good had that trajectory continued. A tragedy, but man, that's a long time ago now.
   2944. JC in DC Posted: May 03, 2021 at 04:30 PM (#6016695)
Ugh, and Kenny Walker? Lots of athleticism, but very little game. Killed us Knicks fans being another guy not good enough to help Ewing.
   2945. Mike A Posted: May 03, 2021 at 06:02 PM (#6016704)
That 1984 Kentucky Final Four team busted out hard in the NBA. You had Mel Turpin (#6 draft pick overall, RIP), Kenny Walker (5th overall), and arguably the most famous bust ever in Sam Bowie (#2 overall, ahead of...). Bowie and Walker started having injury issues, and Turpin couldn't keep his weight down.

The three #2 picks after Bowie all died young - Wayman Tisdale (44, cancer), Len Bias, and Armen Gilliam (47, heart attack while playing basketball).
   2946. asinwreck Posted: May 03, 2021 at 07:44 PM (#6016715)
Wayman Tisdale's life was too short, but he led an interesting one. A notable basketball player, but even more successful as a bass player.
   2947. SteveF Posted: May 03, 2021 at 08:57 PM (#6016724)
Rumor has it LeBron James hasn't been vaccinated for Covid-19.

To be clear, I bring that up only to point out the possibility he could miss time in protocols during the playoffs.
   2948. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: May 03, 2021 at 09:03 PM (#6016730)
Based on his comments when asked about the vaccine earlier this year, it wasn't a crazy assumption that he probably wasn't getting vaccinated*.

And rumors is a little too scandalous sounding, based on how this came out, I think:

Deandre Hayton @YCSNOW23

Translation from a German article with an Interview with Dennis Schröder:

"Nearly the whole team is vaccinated - only LeBron and I are not, I think."

"I can’t go into quarantine again, if that happens now, I‘ll miss a whole round in the playoffs. I can’t live with that"


Schroder is in the protocol now.

*I don't think it's that hard to figure out who has and hasn't gotten vaccinated - and not just in the NBA - between various comments and releases the teams/leagues have made**. For instance, it's a pretty safe assumption LaVine wasn't vaccinated and has missed the last couple of weeks after a positive test just by reading between the lines of what the team has officially said and various comments by reporters and coaches (for example, everyone was surprised LaVine was cleared to sit on the Bulls bench their last game).

**Whether or not that's a worthwhile use of your time, that's for you to decide. I'm sure it'll be something that can impact betting lines and whatnot during the playoffs, for one instance.
   2949. SteveF Posted: May 03, 2021 at 09:05 PM (#6016734)
Well, I used the word 'rumor' not to make it sound scandalous but rather to make it sound less like a known fact.
   2950. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: May 04, 2021 at 10:00 AM (#6016799)
Russell Westbrook became the only player with multiple 20-assist, 20-rebound games in NBA history -- Wilt Chamberlain is the only other player with one -- and the surging Washington Wizards moved closer to Indiana in the Eastern Conference playoff standings by beating the Pacers 154-141 on Monday night.

Westbrook had 14 points to go along with his career-high 21 rebounds and career-high-tying 24 assists for his league-leading 32nd triple-double of the season. He has 178 triple-doubles, three short of Oscar Robertson's career record, with seven games remaining this season for Washington.

Monday's performance guarantees that Westbrook will average a triple-double in a season for the fourth time in his career; Robertson is the only other player to do this, and he did it once, in 1961-62.


We've picked him apart plenty over the years...but these games are just something else.
   2951. PJ Martinez Posted: May 04, 2021 at 10:42 AM (#6016809)
The Ringer's basketball writers rank the 25 best players in the league.
   2952. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: May 04, 2021 at 10:52 AM (#6016814)
Is Andrew Wiggins a good player now? Over his last 30 games, He is scoring 19.5 ppg/5 rbg/2.6 apg/1.2 spg/0.9 bpg while shooting .485/.414/.769.

Those are some nice numbers overall.
   2953. jmurph Posted: May 04, 2021 at 10:55 AM (#6016816)
The Ringer's basketball writers rank the 25 best players in the league.

I think I disagree with a lot of this, but it's well done.
   2954. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: May 04, 2021 at 11:06 AM (#6016818)
Is Andrew Wiggins a good player now?

He is precisely what he's always been -- useful but hilariously overpaid.
   2955. tshipman Posted: May 04, 2021 at 11:57 AM (#6016831)
Wiggins isn't that overpaid. He's basically on a 3/93 contract. I think he's about worth 20 mm on the open market, so there's only about 30 million of dead money there.
   2956. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: May 04, 2021 at 12:10 PM (#6016833)
I think I disagree with a lot of this, but it's well done.

I don't agree with most of the order/rankings, but they probably have the best 25 guys in there (probably, because I'm not immediately thinking of any obvious "snubs").
   2957. tshipman Posted: May 04, 2021 at 12:17 PM (#6016834)
I think I disagree with a lot of this, but it's well done.


Counterpoint: the Brad Beal section had a completely pointless anecdote about an old guy singing at a karaoke bar.
   2958. Fourth True Outcome Posted: May 04, 2021 at 12:21 PM (#6016836)
Counterpoint: the Brad Beal section had a completely pointless anecdote about an old guy singing at a karaoke bar.

It's a Bill Simmons-run media property, I'm pretty sure that is a contractual obligation in every piece.
   2959. smileyy Posted: May 04, 2021 at 12:31 PM (#6016837)
I thought it was casual sexism that was de rigueur or is that only in Simmons-authored pieces?
   2960. jmurph Posted: May 04, 2021 at 12:39 PM (#6016839)
Counterpoint: the Brad Beal section had a completely pointless anecdote about an old guy singing at a karaoke bar.

Hey I can't be expected to read entire articles.
   2961. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: May 04, 2021 at 12:53 PM (#6016847)
I thought it was casual sexism that was de rigueur or is that only in Simmons-authored pieces?


Well, Simmons stopped writing years ago, so.....

These Wizards are kind of what I was expecting at the beginning of the season: a solid, if bottom half, playoff team in the East.
   2962. Fourth True Outcome Posted: May 04, 2021 at 05:27 PM (#6016940)
I thought it was casual sexism that was de rigueur or is that only in Simmons-authored pieces?

If I'm recalling correctly, BS went for the classic trope of toning down his casual sexism after he had a daughter, because why would one consider women as people until you've created one? (This is all hazy memory, as like Votto says the man is more into fighting his employees' union than writing these days.) It's a lot like that roof-surfing scene in Teen Wolf where Michael J. Fox is on top of his friend's van and...
   2963. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 04, 2021 at 08:15 PM (#6016974)
Less attention is being paid to the East standings, understandably, but the race for 1 strikes me as pretty important. The 2 seed has to go up against Milwaukee in the 2nd round and whatever you think of them, they're going to be a significantly better team than whoever finishes 4.
FWIW, bk-ref has the sixers at 92% to finish as the 1-seed.

i'd take the under on that.
   2964. asinwreck Posted: May 04, 2021 at 09:15 PM (#6016987)
Giannis being able to shoot from outside seems unfair.
   2965. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: May 04, 2021 at 10:18 PM (#6016996)
Giannis hitting shots from the outside always fills me with apprehension because he very rarely maintains it for the whole game. He almost gave the game away in the last 3 minutes tonight because he alternated between bricking jumpers and turning the ball over.
   2966. CFBF's Results are Certified Posted: May 04, 2021 at 11:08 PM (#6017005)
Is Julius Randle really the 21st-best player in the NBA?
   2967. jmurph Posted: May 05, 2021 at 07:28 AM (#6017022)
Is Julius Randle really the 21st-best player in the NBA?

I interpreted that list as their take on who is having the best season. It says this in the intro: Like in years past, (the writers) were given a simple/painful task: Rank the best 25 players in the NBA today. So maybe I'm wrong. But I think having Randle there, having Davis at only 9, etc., has to mean it's a snapshot in time.

   2968. Thok Posted: May 05, 2021 at 07:41 AM (#6017024)
Randle is a pretty strong contender for the Most Improved Player award this year.
   2969. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: May 05, 2021 at 07:44 AM (#6017025)
Davis at 9 and Luka at 10 feel low, but then I look at who's 1-8 and I'm not sure who I could move them ahead of in any sort of ranking system. So many stars out there.
   2970. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: May 05, 2021 at 10:15 AM (#6017049)
Towns at 25 seems ... high?
   2971. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: May 05, 2021 at 10:31 AM (#6017052)
I was just worried they were gonna have LaVine or Vucevic in the list; after all, they're both deserving All-Stars.

K.C. Johnson @KCJHoop 17m

Before trade deadline:
19-24
110.6 Off Rtg
111.6 Def Rtg

After trade deadline
7-15
108.9 Off Rtg
113.2 Def Rtg

With LaVine/Vucevic
3-7
103.5 Off Rtg in 245 shared minutes (small sample size)


Their net rating in those 245 LaVine/Vuc minutes is -12.3.

I bought into the idea that maybe - just maybe - the offense could get better, so that getting worse is a little surprising. But is anyone really surprised how terrible they've become defensively? If the Bulls don't win one of the 4 lottery slots, this trade will turn disastrous pretty damn quickly.
   2972. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 05, 2021 at 11:28 AM (#6017058)
Towns at 25 seems ... high?


Who knows? His potential ceiling is much higher than that. His floor is much lower. A player of his age and experience shouldn't have such a ridiculous spread, but there you have it.

Personally, I might nudge him up a little, because think the stench of the dumpster fire around him has hit him harder than it really should, but I can't really argue with someone who thinks he should be off the list entirely.
   2973. PJ Martinez Posted: May 05, 2021 at 11:50 AM (#6017061)
I was a little surprised to see Jrue Holiday on the list, but then I went to check out his numbers this year and it looks like he might be having the best season of his career?

I tend to think of Middleton as Milwaukee's second-best player, but clearly there's a case for Holiday.
   2974. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: May 05, 2021 at 11:54 AM (#6017062)
Who knows? His potential ceiling is much higher than that. His floor is much lower. A player of his age and experience shouldn't have such a ridiculous spread, but there you have it.

Yeah, this is right. He'll have his first competent coach for a fully year next year, so maybe?
   2975. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: May 05, 2021 at 12:11 PM (#6017063)
I tend to think of Middleton as Milwaukee's second-best player, but clearly there's a case for Holiday.


The fact that it's close is a great sign for Milwaukee. Holiday and Giannis are both very good defenders, and Middleton is okay.

Mentioned on the Lowe Post earlier this week is that Portis has been a good bench players this season. I think he's only behind Clarkson, Ingles, Brunson, Harrell, and Boucher in Win Shares. (not sure if that's a credible NBA stat, and I've never been a Portis fan, but he's definitely been a solid rotation guy.)
   2976. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 05, 2021 at 12:54 PM (#6017067)
the real question is this: would you rather have julius randle for 2/38, or tobais tharris for 4/149
   2977. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 05, 2021 at 12:59 PM (#6017069)
reposting, since it's arguably relevant to the ongoing conversation:
To no one’s surprise, the best players on title-winning teams are usually extraordinary talents. Among the 33 NBA champions since 1985, the top-rated player on the team, according to CPM, was one of the three best players in the league that season on 23 occasions. And the team’s best player was among the top 10 in the league on all but three occasions.
...
No matter how brightly he shines, however, a superstar usually can’t deliver a title without a good sidekick or two.6 On average, the second-best player on these championship teams was the 14th-best player in the league, according to CPM. And although not every champ had a classic “Big Three” like LeBron James’s Miami Heat, the third-best player on the championship team rated as the 37th-best player in the league, on average — still very solid.

just gonna take a second to scrawl my own eyeballs out of my skull as i remember that the sixers could still have embiid, simmons and jimmy butler if they hadn't let someones #### it up.
So then all you need is an Alpha, a Beta and a Gamma and — presto! — you win an NBA championship? Actually, your options are more flexible than that. A team with an Alpha and a Beta — say, this year’s Houston Rockets — could probably skip the Gamma if they had a deep rotation. A team with no Alphas but three Betas — say, Jimmy Butler, Antetokounmpo and Kyle Lowry — would more than likely be good enough to contend for a title. A team with a very strong Alpha could go without a Beta and make up for it with two or more Gammas instead — that’s sort of how the current Cavaliers are constructed.

   2978. tshipman Posted: May 05, 2021 at 01:22 PM (#6017073)
Actually, the guy with the best case for being snubbed on that list is probably Vucevic.
   2979. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 05, 2021 at 03:17 PM (#6017103)
Actually, the guy with the best case for being snubbed on that list is probably Vucevic.
trae young is dead. this comment killed him.
   2980. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 05, 2021 at 03:27 PM (#6017107)
one could also argue that the play-in is working exactly as intended. Meaningful games are happening all over the league with just two weeks left to play, and teams like the Pelicans, Kings, Raptors, and Bulls are continuing to try to win rather than tank. Not to mention the fact that all this buzz—both positive and negative—is creating one of the most can’t-miss season finishes we’ve seen in some time. “I think it’s great,” one assistant coach said. “It gives lesser and younger teams something to play for toward the end of the season. It makes teams not tank and helps younger teams grow and develop.”
...
Some teams, like the Lakers and Heat, who had short offseasons and have been affected by either COVID-19 or injuries this season, can’t fathom that their fate could come down to a handful of games. For a team like the Wizards, though, the play-in has given their stretch run a purpose.

   2981. Rally Posted: May 05, 2021 at 03:42 PM (#6017113)
Finishing 6th is a clear advantage than finishing 7th or 8th. And 7/8 is a clear advantage to 9/10.

So yeah, I think the play-in is good for the league. I’m used to tuning out the NBA until the playoffs start, but this does add some drama.
   2982. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 05, 2021 at 03:56 PM (#6017118)
I am shocked at how great the play-in has been. I was skeptical but I think it has been pretty good.
   2983. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: May 05, 2021 at 04:47 PM (#6017133)
I have always been a Gasols Stan:

Kamenetzky Brothers
@KamBrothers
·
34m
Andre Drummond says that Marc Gasol, despite having lost his starting spot to him, has been his biggest source of help during his acclimation period. Drummond's always respected Gasol's game, and asks him a lot of questions. AK
   2984. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: May 05, 2021 at 05:06 PM (#6017143)
The play-in is like anything else: good in some ways and bad in others, and good for some teams, and bad for others. I am personally not thrilled by the fact that teams a little below .500 are supposedly playing "meaningful" games now, but of course I am biased about it since it is bad for the current iteration of the Lakers. Absent the play-in, the Lakers would probably actually rather be 8th than 6th since I expect that the team that they are most worried about, other than themselves, is the Clippers. The 9/10 game between the Pacers and the Wizards will not be on my must-see list. Also, speaking cynically, the NBA's media providers will love the play-in a little less if Golden State and/or the Lakers gets eliminated during the play-in, putting Curry and/or James off-screen for the duration of the playoffs, while setting up Memphis/Phoenix and/or San Antonio/Utah 1st-round matchups. The other side of course is that Curry might be out altogether without the play-in; this way, fans will at least get to see him in a one-and-done or two-and done, so again: good and bad.

James amusingly went off on the play-in last week, (whoever thought of that shitt needs to be fired) and rightfully took a little crap for "whining" (although some LakerLand honks pointed out that he also spoke out against it in 2018).

One reason so many people love the NCAA Tournament is ofc the one-and-done format, so it is not surprising that both MLB and the NBA have added one-and-done elements to their postseasons.
   2985. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: May 05, 2021 at 06:38 PM (#6017173)
The best defense of the play-in I've yet read (from, I believe, Hollinger) is simply pointing out how little of the current NBA discourse is about tanking, a topic that can be interesting in theory but never, ever is in practice. Teams seeded anywhere in the 12-6 range have much stronger incentives to try to actually win games down the stretch, and much more downside to even strategic losing (whether for draft position or a perceived favorable matchup); as a side effect, the teams scrambling to make or avoid the play-in games generate enough storylines to keep the basketball media talking about actual basketball.
   2986. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 05, 2021 at 07:08 PM (#6017179)
Cody Taylor @CodyTaylorNBA
I just witnessed Tacko Fall miss a dunk in the pre-game layup line. I'm not entirely sure how that happens.

   2987. tshipman Posted: May 05, 2021 at 07:52 PM (#6017190)
The best defense of the play-in I've yet read (from, I believe, Hollinger) is simply pointing out how little of the current NBA discourse is about tanking, a topic that can be interesting in theory but never, ever is in practice. Teams seeded anywhere in the 12-6 range have much stronger incentives to try to actually win games down the stretch, and much more downside to even strategic losing (whether for draft position or a perceived favorable matchup); as a side effect, the teams scrambling to make or avoid the play-in games generate enough storylines to keep the basketball media talking about actual basketball.


The flip side of this is that OKC is engaging in some of the most egregious tanking we've ever seen and getting zero pushback from the league.
   2988. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 05, 2021 at 08:11 PM (#6017193)
The flip side of this is that OKC is engaging in some of the most egregious tanking we've ever seen and getting zero pushback from the league.
is OKC even the most egregious example of tanking in their own conference?


i mean, HOU has gone 5-39 since starting the season 11-10.
   2989. tshipman Posted: May 05, 2021 at 08:37 PM (#6017199)
Houston is bad, but OKC is sitting guys with fake injuries and not even bothering to come up with a plausible injury for Al Horford.
   2990. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 05, 2021 at 08:38 PM (#6017201)
Houston is bad, but OKC is sitting guys with fake injuries and not even bothering to come up with a plausible injury for Al Horford.
DNP-old is pretty accurate, imo.
   2991. SteveF Posted: May 05, 2021 at 08:48 PM (#6017202)
You could see it as tanking. I choose to see it as teams competing fiercely for the #1 pick.
   2992. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 05, 2021 at 09:07 PM (#6017204)
now that the sixers are no longer tanking, i think the NBA should look at how far into the future teams can trade picks. these recent "superstar" trades (harden, holiday, george) have been underpinned by future 1st round picks in 2025, '26, '27, and that's a deeply weird environment to be in. it really does hurt the league on both ends, since the team getting the "superstar" doesn't have to sacrifice parts of their current roster, and the team losing the "superstar" isn't receiving assets that currently exist.
   2993. asinwreck Posted: May 05, 2021 at 09:46 PM (#6017214)
In the first quarter tonight, the Knicks scored 12 and Nikola Jokić scored 24.
   2994. bob gee Posted: May 06, 2021 at 08:22 AM (#6017259)
Westbrook has been doing amazing lately, much better shot selection and passing.
   2995. asinwreck Posted: May 06, 2021 at 09:25 AM (#6017270)
An advantage to the play-in is seeing the maniacal effort Westbrook will bring to the format.
   2996. jmurph Posted: May 06, 2021 at 10:58 AM (#6017286)
Houston is bad, but OKC is sitting guys with fake injuries and not even bothering to come up with a plausible injury for Al Horford.

Yeah that was gross, the league and the players association should have problems with this.
   2997. Shohei Brotani (formerly LA Hombre) Posted: May 06, 2021 at 11:20 AM (#6017290)
now that the sixers are no longer tanking, i think the NBA should look at how far into the future teams can trade picks.
I love the qualifier there. "We really should close at loophole, now that I'm not using it...."
   2998. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 06, 2021 at 11:37 AM (#6017295)
I love the qualifier there. "We really should close at loophole, now that I'm not using it...."
heh, i just wanted to save someone else the trouble of pointing it out.
   2999. Shohei Brotani (formerly LA Hombre) Posted: May 06, 2021 at 11:47 AM (#6017297)
Hey, sports should be the one place where partisanship and hatred of The Other should thrive. I wholeheartedly endorse your hypocrisy, and sign off on your terrible example.
   3000. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 06, 2021 at 11:50 AM (#6017298)
Hey, sports should be the one place where partisanship and hatred of The Other should thrive. I wholeheartedly endorse your hypocrisy, and sign off on your terrible example.
it's long been said that the problem isn't that there are too many 57i66135; it's that there are too few 57i66135
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