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Friday, December 18, 2020

NBA 2020 Season kick-off thread

I estimate it would take 10-12 Primates to beat James Harden in a wing eating contest.

Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: December 18, 2020 at 02:28 PM | 3341 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: best shape of his life, nba, off-topic

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   3001. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 06, 2021 at 12:09 PM (#6017300)
it's long been said that the problem isn't that there are too many 57i66135; it's that there are too few 57i66135


It has never been said. It will never be said. Those words are literally impossible to articulate.

:)

Flip.
   3002. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 06, 2021 at 01:22 PM (#6017306)
It has never been said. It will never be said. Those words are literally impossible to articulate.

:)
yeah, well, your words are impossible to articulate.
   3003. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: May 06, 2021 at 01:28 PM (#6017308)
it's long been said that the problem isn't that there are too many 57i66135; it's that there are too few 57i66135
it's STIGGLES. or s͖͛t͖͛e͖͛a͖͛g͖͛l͖͛e͖͛s͖͛. I forget.
   3004. tshipman Posted: May 06, 2021 at 02:06 PM (#6017315)
T͉o̫͔̼̪͈̲͖ ̠i͖nvo͔̘̗̲k̪̰ẹ̻̜ͅ ̯̘̩̼̯̗t͍̞͙̬͔h̦͇͓e̱͖̺͍ hi̖̞͖̯̝v͇̜̟̼e̙̭͔̲̱-m̟̭̖͙̱̭̪i̫̣̙ͅnd̰͎̭̹̙ ̙̯̫͉̖̙r̥e͇p̲̠̥r̪̬̭e͎s̻̣͇̺͕ent̳in̙̘͈g͖͇̟̪͙ͅ c͙h̦̫a̘͓̭̥ọ̼s͙͇̜̤͉̝.̺̳̦͇̦
̹͉Iͅn͈͕̤v͚̲͉̩̯̪o̜̗̗ͅk͖̯in͎͎g ̣̞͎͖̣̲̗t͚h̭̳̲̤͉͎e̟̤͖̤̥ ̤̗̭͔̰f̳̮̝e͎̳̝͍̟e̺̥̝͓̪l͔̥͉i͕n̬͇̭̘̹̫̪g͚̣͚̲͙̰ ̩̣̩͈̦̘ͅo̻̮f̫͔͖ ̼c͙͙̭͎̳̹h͚a̝̺̦os͖̥.͇̳͔̼̝̪
̙͉W̥̜i̯̣͈̺t͕̬h͎͙̲̭̝ͅ ̲o̩͉̹̼̪̟u̘̖̦̩͎̩̘t͉̱̼͙̺̞ ̰̳͔͚̹o̲r͈͔̤d̲̲e̘r̖.͖̤̮̖̰̩ͅ
̩̩̤̦ͅTh̳̬͓̤̥͙e͈ ̬͈͕͉N̬̪̗͇̜ẹ͍̯̖͉̫z̰͚̤͍per͕̹̜̼di̞̺͔a̺͖̥n̯̮͍̳͙̠ hiv̙͈̤̦̟͇eͅ-̦̤̤m͚̰̞͇̠̥ͅin͎̼̫̦̙͓d̯̩̤̗̯͍ͅ ̤͕͔̠o͖̙͈͉̭̺̣f͍̱̻ ͕c̠̭͓̹͇̗h̹̮̦͖a̜̪̼o̭͈̭͕͈̭s̮̞.͍̬̫̭ S͚͕T͖̺̦̗̞̞I̱̗̩̫G̺̲G̱̺̖L͉͕E͎̬͈͕̜S.̪͖̱
̺H̙͙͔̯̺e̬̠͚ ̯̫̯w͎ͅh̯͓̝̺̖͍o̞ ̥͈̬W̝͇̠̜̗̗̳a̟̹̪̹̣͔̟i̯͕̼͕̬̤t͓͕s͔ ̫͎̺B̠̬̤̰̭e͇̗h̟̭̣̤̯̲̭i͚n͔̖̳̬̺̫̺d̞͕̜̟̹̙̖ ̮T̬͓̭͙h͚̫͚̳e̤ ͍͖͕͎W̟̬͔̘͖͔a̘͓̩̝l̘̣̬̰̺̤l̺̻͔̹.̥̙̪̮
̪̥S͇̠̣̞͍T̰̠̯I͈͙̣̭̟̜ͅG̬̦G͍Ḽ͖E̘̜S̭͎̠̻̩̜̲!
   3005. jmurph Posted: May 06, 2021 at 02:07 PM (#6017316)
Oh god what have you guys done.
   3006. jmurph Posted: May 06, 2021 at 02:08 PM (#6017317)
So things are going pretty well with the Pacers, eh?
   3007. tshipman Posted: May 06, 2021 at 02:09 PM (#6017319)
Yeah, the whole Nate Bjorkgren era has not gone well.
   3008. Fourth True Outcome Posted: May 06, 2021 at 02:35 PM (#6017324)
The whole interaction between Bitadze and Foster is unlike anything I can remember from the NBA. Who talks to their coaches like that?! What kind of coach loses their cool that badly? Just wild stuff.
   3009. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 06, 2021 at 04:07 PM (#6017382)
The whole interaction between Bitadze and Foster is unlike anything I can remember from the NBA. Who talks to their coaches like that?! What kind of coach loses their cool that badly? Just wild stuff.

latrell spreewell.
   3010. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 06, 2021 at 04:08 PM (#6017383)
what in the #### is zalgo?
   3011. Fourth True Outcome Posted: May 06, 2021 at 04:23 PM (#6017389)
Spree was genuinely the one example that came to mind, but he at least had the composure to choke PJ Carlissimo in practice when there were no cameras around.
   3012. tshipman Posted: May 06, 2021 at 04:48 PM (#6017396)
I think that kind of language is not that uncommon in practice or behind closed doors?

I mean there's a long history of players getting coaches fired.
   3013. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 06, 2021 at 04:59 PM (#6017398)
Latrell just wants to feed his family!
   3014. Fourth True Outcome Posted: May 06, 2021 at 05:04 PM (#6017403)
I think that kind of language is not that uncommon in practice or behind closed doors?

That's certainly fair, and this may well be the sort of thing that isn't nearly as uncommon as I think, but is going to be captured, replayed, and rehashed ad nauseam in our HD broadcast/twitter discourse world. Still pretty wild to have both sides blow up so obviously on tv.
   3015. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 06, 2021 at 05:19 PM (#6017410)
Anthony Edwards Matches LeBron James, Kevin Durant Feat in Wolves' Loss to Grizzlies

According to ESPN Stats & Info, James and Durant are the only other teenagers in NBA history to finish a game with a 40-5-5 stat line.

He and James are also the only two teenagers to reach the 40-point mark in multiple games


Ant continues to show flashes of being a worthwhile pick. At the time I preferred Ball, and he still is likely to have a better career, but Ant really does have oceans of potential and it is fun when it pops out.
   3016. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 06, 2021 at 05:31 PM (#6017413)
Chris Fedor @ChrisFedor
#Cavs could've drafted Damian Lillard. They took Dion Waiters instead.

   3017. Fourth True Outcome Posted: May 06, 2021 at 05:34 PM (#6017414)
I'm rooting for Edwards to pan out, as much because he's already the best quote in the league as because it'd be fun for Minny to get its #### together finally. It would be nice if they are able to stabilize and have some success with an Edwards/KAT duo.
   3018. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: May 07, 2021 at 12:41 AM (#6017502)
The Lakers are likely going to have to play in the play-in tournament. AD left today's game against the Clippers with back spasms and probably won't play against the Blazers on Friday. LeBron is out as well which means the Lakers will be in the 7th spot after they lose against the Blazers.

I guess the Lakers have a non-zero chance of winning the title but I just don't think they have a good shot.
   3019. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: May 07, 2021 at 01:46 AM (#6017505)
I posted on a Lakers board after James went down that I thought they would end up in the play-in. And, no, they don't seem to have a good shot. I'd bet Clippers/Milwaukee if I had to put money down.
   3020. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 07, 2021 at 10:23 AM (#6017533)
Kyle Goon @kylegoon
Markieff Morris on if the Lakers' confidence has been shaken by the last few weeks: "Not sure." Says through the injuries and absences: "I've never seen anything like this."
Ryan Ward @RyanWardLA
Markieff Morris on play-in tournament: "I think I said before we're not thinking about the damn play-in game. ... If it happens, it happens."
Bill Oram @billoram
LeBron James has not been on the bench for the Lakers last two games. Frank Vogel first told @Kyle Goon there is no medical reason for that, and later added, "He's just not here." LeBron was with them in practice yesterday and shoot around today, but will not travel to Portland.
Rich Hoffman @rich_hofmann
Need an oral history on Blake remembering how to jump.
   3021. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 07, 2021 at 11:48 AM (#6017555)
I think there are six or seven teams who have a legit shot at the title this year, which means none of them has a super high chance.

That is a long way of saying I think you guys are too down on the Lakers. They have maybe a 1 in 5 or 1 in 6 chance to win (IMO, roughly guessing), which is not great, but all the other teams with similar or even better chances have big question marks as well.
   3022. tshipman Posted: May 07, 2021 at 12:18 PM (#6017564)
My odds for the Lakers would be way down compared to two weeks ago. Two weeks ago, I thought AD/LeBron would be back at close to 100% by now and that they were on track for the 5 seed.

LeBron apparently rushing back is surprising to me.
   3023. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 07, 2021 at 12:42 PM (#6017567)
LeBron apparently rushing back is surprising to me.
something something...fear...something something...desperation....
   3024. Jtsports01 Posted: May 07, 2021 at 01:08 PM (#6017576)
Feels like the Sixers getting the 1 seed makes them the favorites in the East, but I agree with RR that the Clippers are the best bet in the West.
   3025. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 07, 2021 at 01:15 PM (#6017578)
I think the Sixers are probably the weakest of the big three in the East, but the advantage from getting the #1 seed might outweigh that. It will be a fun playoffs.

   3026. Rally Posted: May 07, 2021 at 01:29 PM (#6017585)
I don't think I'd give this Laker team even a 1 in 25 shot. They never really had a shot. They didn't have enough time off to recover from last year's run. At least they got one last year, so they have something to show for the LeBron signing. And I'm optimistic about next year, as LeBron and Davis will have plenty of rest before 2021-22 starts. I'm thinking 2021-22 is going to be the equivalent of the Last Dance for LeBron. Lakers are famously loyal, there's no chance of a Krause-imposed rebuild and team breakup. But father time gets everyone eventually. LeBron's got one more title run in him, but not this year.

Do I know this? Hell no. But I strongly feel that this is what's up.
   3027. tshipman Posted: May 07, 2021 at 01:33 PM (#6017588)
A lot of it depends on seeds. The Clippers have a bad matchup vs. Denver and the Lakers, but a good matchup vs. Utah and Phoenix.

Dallas is a big wildcard as well--could beat any team in the west.
   3028. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: May 07, 2021 at 02:37 PM (#6017606)
West/Lakers: The problem with the Lakers is obvious: James and Davis do not appear that they are going to get right physically, at least not this year. James has actually said that he does not think that the ankle will "ever be 100%." Looking at the last six games on the schedule, they can probably win two even if James does not suit up--the Houston game and maybe NO or IND. NO is the last game on the schedule, and they will likely have nothing to play for. That puts the Lakers at 38-34, like someone said earlier, or 39-33 and probably 7th, meaning that they are at home in the 7/8 game. Win that and then they are in a first-round series against Utah or Phoenix, which is probably better for them than playing the Clippers. Gasol gives Jokic some trouble and Murray is out, so I would like their chances against Denver. I hear what shipman is saying about Dallas, but they are 19th in DRTG and I think a couple of years away.

But obviously all the scenarios/matchups stuff is moot if James and Davis are not James and Davis. The 2020 title was based on James and Davis both putting up 30 PERs in postseason; the Lakers had, more or less, two guys as good as old Michael Jordan and prime Kevin Garnett last spring. Now they don't, so 3026 may be right.

East: Any of Brooklyn, Philadelphia and Milwaukee can win it, but Milwaukee is the best balanced of the three, and their three main guys are 26, 29 and 30. Like the Clippers, I think this may be their moment, but we will see. I think there is an opening for Utah here as well.
   3029. asinwreck Posted: May 07, 2021 at 02:47 PM (#6017608)
Denver has surprised me since Murray's injury. I would not be surprised to see the Nuggets come out of the West this year.

The Bucks seem like the strongest team in the East, but that seemed true last year. Can they adjust during a playoff series?
   3030. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 07, 2021 at 03:07 PM (#6017613)
East: Any of Brooklyn, Philadelphia and Milwaukee can win it, but Milwaukee is the best balanced of the three, and their three main guys are 26, 29 and 30. Like the Clippers, I think this may be their moment, but we will see. I think there is an opening for Utah here as well.

if utah comes out of the east, i will eat my own left testicle.
   3031. tshipman Posted: May 07, 2021 at 03:14 PM (#6017614)
if utah comes out of the east, i will eat my own left testicle.


I think you mean W͙̭e̴̲̣̠̦͓̩ͅs҉̥̖̗̼̲t̲͉̣ ̹̹͍̤͇̦͍͝te͇͇͢s͔̤̬͉t̩͍i̩͉̫ͅc̻͝le̫̭̼̭͉.
   3032. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: May 07, 2021 at 03:21 PM (#6017615)
I get Utah skepticism, and if the Lakers do end up playing them in an 8/1 or 7/2, I would actually pick the Lakers if I think James and Davis are healthy. But Utah has a 51-15 PYTH, is 3rd in both ORTG and DRTG, and may have HCA throughout postseason. Mitchell is only 24, but I doubt that Utah will have a cleaner shot than this one.
   3033. tshipman Posted: May 07, 2021 at 03:30 PM (#6017616)
re: Utah:

I think they're an underdog against Denver, Clippers AND a healthy Lakers team. I'd have them at close to 50/50 against the Mavs or Suns.

That makes it pretty hard to see them coming out of the West.
   3034. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: May 07, 2021 at 04:17 PM (#6017625)
so sick of stiggles looking for cheap ways out of having to eat his own testicles
   3035. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: May 07, 2021 at 04:21 PM (#6017626)
Denver has been so great with Gordon, but Murray was the one player I don't think Jazz had any answer for (Jokic is gonna be great but it's Murray who I think would be way better than his normal level). If they had a healthy Murray I think I'd have them as the best team in the NBA. Without...I'd slightly favor the Jazz and Clippers against them and maybe the Suns, but it also wouldn't surprise me at all if Nuggets won the west. I'll take the Jazz easily over the Mavs. I mean Luka could average 40+ and I'll look like an idiot, but the Mavs don't scare me and I think they will destroy KP with their offense. I also have way more confidence in Royce at least making things difficult for Luka than I do if he's matched up against smaller guys like Steph, Dame, Murray, etc.

If I thought Lebron and AD were going to be close to 100% I'd still have them as best, but I don't think it's happening this season.
   3036. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 07, 2021 at 04:28 PM (#6017627)
so sick of stiggles looking for cheap ways out of having to eat his own testicles

don't blame whom for ambiguous wording.
   3037. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: May 07, 2021 at 04:29 PM (#6017628)
I think Denver will miss Murray in some tough postseason games. While I am sure it has happened (Ewing Theory), teams don't generally make the Finals with a key guy missing, and the West is pretty tough.

As to Utah, it may be that they are the proverbial "regular season team" and most Finals teams's best players are better than their best guys. But as I have said many times, I am not into overthinking (not smart enough to overthink anyway) and any team with Utah's basic metrics and record should be taken seriously--especially with James and Davis hurting. The 2000 Pacers or 2000 Blazers would probably have won if O'Neal and Bryant had had these kinds of injury/age concerns BITD.
   3038. tshipman Posted: May 07, 2021 at 04:49 PM (#6017632)
I get the high level position that Denver is missing a major guy, but who do they match up poorly against?

To me, Jokic forces a good matchup against every other contender except the Lakers. No one on the Clippers, Jazz, or Suns can guard him one on one, and they can't sufficiently punish him when he plays defense.

I don't think anyone's an outright favorite to come out of the West against the field, but I don't think the Nuggets have a bad matchup aside from a healthy Lakers team.
   3039. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: May 07, 2021 at 06:54 PM (#6017655)
I basically agree with that, tship. But do the Lakers have anyone who can guard Jokic one on one? Does anybody (maybe Embiid can)?

The numbers I saw on Jokic in the post vs. Gobert was that he was slightly above his career PPP, but don't think the data (or at least the person who posted it) said if Jazz double-teamed him less often in the post than most. IIRC, he was the only center that hasn't been significantly bothered by Gobert (let alone, actually did better), and this was even after Embiid's big game against the Jazz. Jokic is truly a freak and I was thinking recently he is probably the best offensive center since Shaq?

Also a decent chance the Jazz would do something they messed around with in the regular season and put Favors on him and try to keep Rudy by the rim, but in that case I'm not sure they could take advantage of Jokic's defensive problems -- I disagree that they can't otherwise, at least if Donovan and Conley are healthy, but maybe Gordon is good enough defensively that's no longer so true. I would think Kawhi and Paul George also are capable of punishing his defensive weaknesses.

I get the skepticism of the Jazz. Unless they play the Grizzlies, they're unlikely to play a single series where they have the best player (edit: maybe Suns too. I'm not certain how close to his prime CP3 still is but based on his career it also seems pretty unlikely he can stay healthy for a deep playoff run). But I also just don't see any huge favorite this year and would take the field against any single team in the West, so this is by far the best I've felt about the Jazz' chances since 98. Of course I also thought the concerns over the Bucks last year were overblown so...
   3040. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 07, 2021 at 07:18 PM (#6017657)
obviously, noone thinks the jazz are good enough to win 3 series in a row, but they're not gonna have to beat steph curry in the first round or anything. let's just let the first round play out and then worry about who the real contenders are.
   3041. tshipman Posted: May 07, 2021 at 07:22 PM (#6017658)
I basically agree with that, tship. But do the Lakers have anyone who can guard Jokic one on one? Does anybody (maybe Embiid can)?


Gasol is basically a anti-Jokic specialist.
   3042. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 07, 2021 at 07:27 PM (#6017660)
Gasol is basically a anti-Jokic specialist.
so is jahlil okafor.
   3043. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: May 07, 2021 at 07:30 PM (#6017662)
Gasol is basically a anti-Jokic specialist.


guess other teams just need to find a thicccer center than Jokic to matchup against him. Stupid of Embiid to lose his weight otherwise he might be thicker than Jokic this season.
   3044. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 07, 2021 at 07:38 PM (#6017664)
guess other teams just need to find a thicccer center than Jokic to matchup against him. Stupid of Embiid to lose his weight otherwise he might be thicker than Jokic this season.
embiid losing 240 worthless lbs in a shortened offseason is still one of the most impressive feats i've ever seen.
   3045. tshipman Posted: May 07, 2021 at 07:57 PM (#6017667)
A big part of Jokic's success is that the league has shifted away from the kind of players who are good at guarding him.

Poetl, Marc Gasol, Embiid, maybe Nurkic ... there's not that many guys who are big, strong, with good hands anymore.

Edit: like, just imagine 2000 Shaq being unleashed on the league right now.
   3046. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: May 07, 2021 at 07:59 PM (#6017668)
how has Draymond done against him? it's always been impressive how strong he is in the post against bigger guys, but Jokic is so freakishly strong.
   3047. SteveF Posted: May 07, 2021 at 08:40 PM (#6017673)
Ayton was decent against Jokic this year.
   3048. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 07, 2021 at 09:00 PM (#6017678)
Kyle Neubeck @KyleNeubeck
23 for Embiid at halftime, Simmons bullying Lonzo Ball, this one should be about over by the 4:00 mark of the third
Rich Hoffman @rich_hofmann
The Sixers were booed off the court after they lost the third quarter 37-18 to a team that has nine guys. Yeah, that'll do it.
   3049. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 07, 2021 at 09:14 PM (#6017682)
what would a lonzo ball sign and trade look like this summer?


(obviously, i'm asking about this because of the sixers)
   3050. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 07, 2021 at 09:27 PM (#6017683)
one team played hard.

sixers win anyway.


i am not a fan of the way doc rivers is handling this stretch run...where the sixers have won 7 straight games...and have nearly clinched the 1-seed in the east.
   3051. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 07, 2021 at 09:47 PM (#6017686)
let's do a thing again:

quick note: i've watched literally no college basketball this season, not even the tournament.


jalen suggs, gonzaga:

average athleticism
average burst
no wiggle
good anticipation
good feel for spacing
good hands
NBA strength
strong step back jumper; he creates real space with it.
deep range.

he reminds me of tyrese haliburton. this guy is as close to a lock as it gets to being a 10+ year starter in the NBA. i'm not sure i'd want him as a primary initiator, but he's the platonic ideal of a modern combo guard.

i'm not sure if he's getting any james harden comps, but that kind of development path isn't wholly impossible.



lottery: suggs.
top 40:
fringe draftable:
   3052. asinwreck Posted: May 07, 2021 at 09:52 PM (#6017688)
Wow, the Bulls are actually, successfully closing out a good team in the fourth quarter.
   3053. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 07, 2021 at 09:56 PM (#6017689)
moses moody, arkasnas:

high release, but deliberate
some wiry strength.
not just a shooter, but not a whole lot more.
he has those ben carson arms.

this is not the droid i'm looking for.

lottery: suggs.
top 40: moody.
fringe draftable:
   3054. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 07, 2021 at 10:10 PM (#6017693)
keon johnson, tennessee:

has some fire in him.
some burst.
wiggle isn't there.
he has one strong move that he can win with, but he doesn't chain them together.


he's another guy who played the 4 in college, but will move to the 2 or 3 in the NBA. sometimes that transition goes well (kawhi, butler, mikal bridges), but sometimes it doesn't (rondae hollis-jefferson, jarrett culver, miles bridges). i'm not sure this is a guy i'd buy in on.


lottery: suggs.
top 40: johnson, moody.
fringe draftable:
   3055. tshipman Posted: May 07, 2021 at 10:27 PM (#6017698)
Re: Suggs: The Gonzaga guys always scare me because I don't feel like I understand the WCC vs. the major conferences enough to know how much to discount because of SoS.
   3056. tshipman Posted: May 07, 2021 at 10:36 PM (#6017700)
Zion out the rest of the year with a ring finger fracture. Weird season for New Orleans.

On the one hand, Zion obviously made great progress as a player. They underperformed pythag a bit, so they'll be out of the playoffs instead of the 8-10th seed, which is probably better for them long term?

Somehow, they have a ton of dead money on their cap, with Steven Adams and Eric Bledsoe being basically dead weight. It looks like those decisions are going to lead to them losing Lonzo for nothing in the offseason.

I am not sure if I think they're better or worse for the future after this year.
   3057. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 07, 2021 at 10:46 PM (#6017705)
davion mitchell, baylor:

he's not a ball stopper.
good feet.
good burst.
some wiggle.
NBA strength
very good pnr instincts.
any big who plays with him needs to have good hands.


he reminds me of mike conley, pretty solid skills across the board. i'm a fan.



lottery: suggs. mitchell.
top 40: johnson, moody.
fringe draftable:
   3058. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: May 07, 2021 at 11:14 PM (#6017717)
as a Bucks fan, I appreciate the Milwaukee optimism in these playoff projections but I truly don't think they can win with Bud. If they do, it'll be because the players are smart enough to transcend his issues, because he really is just not very good at thinking on his feet to maximize situations. It tightens their margin for error in every game against good teams.
   3059. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 07, 2021 at 11:22 PM (#6017718)
josh giddey, europe:

high hips.
moves very mechanically.
his shorts are too long.
not strong enough to play in the NBA.
this is a weird player.
kevin garnett would eat this guy's ass all night.

he plays like he hasn't played enough basketball yet. even if he has decent instincts/basketball IQ, processing what he sees usually takes him an extra half-second that he's not gonna have in the NBA.

i wouldn't say he's undraftable, or even that he's not worth a 1st round pick, but he's not someone i'd target.

oh and fun fact: he plays with brandon paul, the least obnoxious paul brother.


lottery: suggs. mitchell.
top 40: johnson, giddey, moody.
fringe draftable:


   3060. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: May 08, 2021 at 12:03 AM (#6017722)
as a Bucks fan, I appreciate the Milwaukee optimism in these playoff projections but I truly don't think they can win with Bud. If they do, it'll be because the players are smart enough to transcend his issues, because he really is just not very good at thinking on his feet to maximize situations. It tightens their margin for error in every game against good teams.


Hmm. Have not heard this take before. Lakers fans said similar stuff about Mike Brown while he was here, briefly, and I was very skeptical that it made any difference, if true. Looking at the NBA expanded standings, I see that the Bucks are 6-5 in 3 points/less games and 18-17 vs. teams over .500. For comparison:

PHL: 7-3, 19-16
BKN: 3-5, 22-13

Milwaukee does not have any notable totals in these areas since Budenholzer took over that I see, but I am sure that you have specific things in mind and obviously you are thinking about the playoffs. I would go with Milwaukee since I think Holiday makes them very slightly better for postseason, and because as noted, they have the best balance. Philadelphia is 13th in O and Brooklyn is 25th in D. Milwaukee is comfortably Top 10 in both, plus they have Antetokounmpo in his physical prime. I make them a slight favorite in the East.

Speaking of Eastern Conference powers: Utah is 37-7 in games decided by 10 points or more, and they have eight more double-digit wins than the team in 2nd--the Clippers.

As posters have said on the thread: this is a weird year, and we might have some weird playoff outcomes.
   3061. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: May 08, 2021 at 02:17 AM (#6017727)
The Lakers lost against the Blazers today but in an odd way, I think it was encouraging in some ways. They lost by 5 points on the second game of a back to back without LeBron, Schroder, and THT. Harrell didn't play either (injured or DNP-CD?). AD had a really good game which is the most important thing for them.

The Lakers can be beaten by pretty much anybody if LeBron/AD aren't healthy. They can beat anybody if they are both healthy. They could win a title or they could lose in the play-in tournament.
   3062. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: May 08, 2021 at 04:06 AM (#6017729)
3061-

Yeah, fans in the Lakers blogosphere expressed similar sentiments. The Lakers banked enough Ws that they will likely hold on to 7th, and we could get a LeBron v. Steph 7/8 game. Little footnote: The Lakers and Boston both dropped into 7th on the same night.

The Lakers can be beaten by pretty much anybody if LeBron/AD aren't healthy. They can beat anybody if they are both healthy


Yep. The Shaq/Kobe teams were the same way. But Kobe was very durable, and Shaq was still in his late 20s during the best years.
   3063. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 08, 2021 at 08:30 AM (#6017736)
The Lakers have first world problems. #WolvesFan

:)
   3064. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: May 08, 2021 at 10:51 AM (#6017752)
Milwaukee does not have any notable totals in these areas since Budenholzer took over that I see, but I am sure that you have specific things in mind and obviously you are thinking about the playoffs.

Yeah, I have things I've noticed but you guys don't want to hear my too-specific gripes. Generally, when things aren't going according to plan, he is bad at adjusting on the fly. His adjustments are often too late and don't work or don't make much sense. Like, last year against Miami he adjusted by playing Brook less but then ran the same drop scheme with Giannis at center. Or sometimes he'll go to a switching or zone defense in situations where it just is plainly a bad idea, like he knows he should try something new but he doesn't have a good idea of what will work best.

I don't know, he has a built-in excuse this year because the mandate is clearly to try a lot of new things and they don't have much practice time, but he has made some baffling decisions and it has cost them enough games that it'll probably be the difference between the 1 seed and wherever they end up. They are leaning into not valuing their regular season record in favor of trying to be better in the postseason but, like, regular season record affects the post-season too. The 1 seed is a considerable advantage and they have basically just given it away. It's frustrating to watch.
   3065. Shohei Brotani (formerly LA Hombre) Posted: May 08, 2021 at 02:04 PM (#6017787)
The Lakers have first world problems. #WolvesFan
To be fair, we live in the First World. #WestCoastBestCoast
   3066. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 08, 2021 at 04:41 PM (#6017822)
james bouknight, uconn:

he's lean.
average burst, but long strides.
he scores a lot of college points that won't translate to the NBA.
handle is pretty loose, but he has a developable power dribble.
he also a slowish left to right crossover, but it's going to get eaten alive against NBA defenders.
he can find space in the half court, but he likes to stick in the dunker spot, rather than float back out to the 3P line.

this is another guy who's not my kind of guy, but he'd fit really well in a place like where he could work off a good passing big who works on the perimeter...but then again, find me someone who doesn't work well with jokic, so...yeah.



lottery: suggs. mitchell.
top 40: johnson, bouknight, giddey, moody.
fringe draftable:
   3067. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 08, 2021 at 05:04 PM (#6017828)
Re: Suggs: The Gonzaga guys always scare me because I don't feel like I understand the WCC vs. the major conferences enough to know how much to discount because of SoS.
one of the advantages of using video is that the level of competition can't distort what a player can or can't do.
   3068. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 08, 2021 at 05:12 PM (#6017830)
josh christopher, arizona state:

he's a lefty.
he's pretty basic.
he doesn't stand out in any meaningful way.

this is not a guy you draft for the future; this is a guy you draft if you think you might get fired in 6 months.

lottery: suggs. mitchell.
top 40: johnson, bouknight, giddey, christopher, moody.
fringe draftable:
   3069. tshipman Posted: May 08, 2021 at 05:31 PM (#6017840)
one of the advantages of using video is that the level of competition can't distort what a player can or can't do.


This is silly. Of course the level of competition distorts what a player can or can't do. You can't evaluate someone's first step in a vacuum. Everyone looks slower when they're being guarded by a great defender.
   3070. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 08, 2021 at 08:20 PM (#6017861)
This is silly. Of course the level of competition distorts what a player can or can't do. You can't evaluate someone's first step in a vacuum. Everyone looks slower when they're being guarded by a great defender

no, you are the one who is being silly, silly.


there aren't very many good defenders in college. the numbers can lie, but the tape very often does not. guys like lillard and mccollum stand out; guys like briante weber and semaj christon do not.
   3071. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 08, 2021 at 08:46 PM (#6017863)
there aren't very many good defenders in college. the numbers can lie, but the tape very often does not. guys like lillard and mccollum stand out; guys like briante weber and semaj christon do not.

or, if you think it's not possible to stand out vs. a legitimately good defender, go back and watch deaaron fox vs. lonzo ball.
   3072. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 08, 2021 at 08:57 PM (#6017868)
Justin Grasso @JGrasso_
Dwight Howard airballing a three made Joel Embiid laugh so hard he fell out of his chair #Sixers

   3073. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 08, 2021 at 09:50 PM (#6017872)
Noah Levick @NoahLevick
Doc Rivers said the Sixers told Tobias Harris to "get back to being Bernard King."

   3074. PJ Martinez Posted: May 09, 2021 at 05:07 PM (#6017947)
I know we discussed this a few pages ago, but do the teams that lose the play-in games get into the lottery? Asking for a franchise based in Massachusetts.
   3075. smileyy Posted: May 09, 2021 at 05:31 PM (#6017949)
[3074] Miss the playoffs and you're in the lottery, and the play-in tournament is not part of the playoffs.
   3076. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 09, 2021 at 06:06 PM (#6017951)
Jawn Gonzalez @JohnGonzalez
Congrats @phillysport on creating the most Philly headline of all time

"First-place Sixers showing flaws amid eight-game win streak"
   3077. PJ Martinez Posted: May 09, 2021 at 06:31 PM (#6017953)
Phew. I won't be rooting for them to lose, but it honestly might be the best plausible scenario for the Celtics at this point.
   3078. tshipman Posted: May 09, 2021 at 07:00 PM (#6017956)
Man, the east from like the 4 seed to the 12 seed is incredibly trick or treat.
   3079. spivey 2 Posted: May 09, 2021 at 09:33 PM (#6017967)
I think Philly is the worst of the big 3 in the East, but being the 1 seed is so big this year I think they have probably equal to better odds than Milwaukee of coming out.

I agree with Griffey's concerns about Milwaukee and Bud, though part of the Toronto series was make-or-miss and part of last season (and the Celtics series a few years back) was Bledsoe turning into a pumpkin. Still, it feels like Milwaukee can have long stretches where it feels like the coaching isn't putting the players in the best positions to be successful. I don't trust Nash at that stuff yet, and while I think Doc is a good coach, I feel like he's gotten in-game-adjustment flak. Milwaukee's shooters are both shooting much better this year but are also much better as a core, so in theory Milwaukee should be harder to gameplan against on both sides.

As for the Lakers, if LeBron and AD are healthy enough to play, they'll be dangerous, and I think that will be true next year too. They don't need to be 100%. Hell, Kawhi won a title playing well under 100% in the playoffs in Toronto.

I think Denver will miss Murray, but I think they're better this year without Murray than they were last year. The run to the WCF can make it easy to forget they were outscored - and I would argue outplayed, though the Utah one was about a push - through their first 2 series in the playoffs. That was with Murray doing ridiculous ####. I think they maybe have a little more of an identity right now.

Last thought - NBA nerd twitter is really on the Gobert should be getting MVP consideration bandwagon (though I think Jokic should win it, and it seems most stats guys do too). Gobert's not been very good in the playoffs in previous years, though I think it's a bit overstated. And it's a regular season award. And, with Conley being an all-defense level PG and the whole team playing well, I am not ready to just write them off. They're significantly better, more balanced, and more playoff-capable with the current team than the previous iterations have been. My worry if I was a Utah fan would be Jordan Clarkson shooting them out of a game or two in the playoffs.
   3080. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 09, 2021 at 10:39 PM (#6017970)
My worry if I was a Utah fan would be Jordan Clarkson donovan mitchell shooting them out of a game or two in the playoffs.
FTFY
   3081. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: May 10, 2021 at 03:57 AM (#6017977)
Davis went 42/12/5 tonight. That will just reinforce the fanbase's view that if James and Davis are mostly healthy, the team would beat Phoenix, Utah, Denver, or Dallas (not saying that it will happen, but that a lot of people feel that way). Lakers fans are most worried about the Clippers.

Wojnarowski ran a piece talking about bad James' ankle still is and how it may stay pretty bad for awhile.
   3082. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: May 10, 2021 at 04:32 AM (#6017979)
LakerNerds are also ofc twitchy about the play-in, the double-elimination position of the 7 seed makes people less jacked up. I notice that Brown was out today and that Boston was down 26 at the half. I could still see them winning a series.
   3083. PJ Martinez Posted: May 10, 2021 at 08:06 AM (#6017985)
Per ESPN Stats & Info, the Thunder have been outscored by 490 points in their last 25 games, the worst margin of defeat by any team in any 25-game span in NBA history. Previous worst was by the 92-93 Mavs (489 points), who went 11-71 that season.
   3084. tshipman Posted: May 10, 2021 at 12:02 PM (#6018024)
If I were a team like San Antonio who lost twice to OKC earlier in the year, I would be pretty pissed that they are running a G league team out there.
   3085. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: May 10, 2021 at 12:06 PM (#6018025)
Figures that as soon as the Bulls are all but out of the play in picture, they start playing their best basketball. Clobbering the Pistons isn't anything to write home about, but they looked so much better than both the C's and Horcats. What a weird stupid year.
   3086. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: May 10, 2021 at 02:39 PM (#6018051)
How warm is Brad Stevens' seat?
   3087. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: May 10, 2021 at 02:49 PM (#6018055)
How warm is Brad Stevens' seat?


I would say "not at all" as long as Ainge is running Boston.
   3088. Fourth True Outcome Posted: May 10, 2021 at 03:02 PM (#6018062)
If you ask Celtics fans online, pretty warm. If you ask Danny Ainge, I think rr has it correct. There are way too many confounding factors in the Celtics disappointing season to pin it on the coaching, and Ainge let slip that they had Stevens extended for several years yet during the IU rumor situation, which was interesting primarily because the team never discusses that kind of thing, making it a pretty clear show of support from Ainge.
   3089. jmurph Posted: May 10, 2021 at 03:19 PM (#6018068)
I think Milwaukee is better suited to the playoffs than in years past with the addition of Holiday, but Miami/Brooklyn/Sixers is not an ideal path to the Finals.
   3090. spivey 2 Posted: May 10, 2021 at 03:24 PM (#6018071)
The Celtics struggling strike me as more of a GM issue than a coaching issue. I think there's limits to how good you can be if your team is below average at passing, getting to the rim, and protecting the rim. Especially if they've lost the 3pt defense magic. A lot of the difference if you look at last year's team stats and this years can be summed up with "Last year teams shot .340 on 3s and this year they're shooting .375".
   3091. tshipman Posted: May 10, 2021 at 04:13 PM (#6018097)
It is remarkable how much the league transformed in a year.

Last year, the Celtics had a 113.4 ORTG, which was good for 4th overall. This year, they're at 114.2, which is 10th (!).

Edit: Seven teams are on pace to exceed the all time record for ORTG this year.
   3092. jmurph Posted: May 10, 2021 at 04:30 PM (#6018109)
I can't imagine the Celtics ownership making big moves like that (Stevens or Ainge) in a crazy league year in which they've seen more than their share of missed time from important players.

Which isn't to suggest they don't have issues to be fixed, they should have a much better record than they do.
   3093. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 10, 2021 at 05:55 PM (#6018129)
Luka was ejected after being assessed a Flagrant 2 foul for an "aggressive strike into the groin area.”
pic.twitter.com/jH2eA8P1pK

— SportsCenter (@SportsCenter) May 10, 2021
   3094. Fourth True Outcome Posted: May 10, 2021 at 06:12 PM (#6018134)
Which isn't to suggest they don't have issues to be fixed, they should have a much better record than they do.

I'm not even sure the Celtics should have a better record than they do. A healthy version of this Celtics team is comfortably better than a .500 team, but at no point this season have they been close to fully healthy.
   3095. Fourth True Outcome Posted: May 10, 2021 at 06:14 PM (#6018135)
Oof, right after I post that, Shams tweeted a report that Jaylen Brown has a torn ligament in his wrist and will miss the rest of the season. Maybe they should consider tanking the play-in game for a lottery pick...
   3096. Shohei Brotani (formerly LA Hombre) Posted: May 10, 2021 at 07:06 PM (#6018140)
Maybe they should consider tanking the play-in game for a lottery pick...
They should just tank the rest of the season and see if they can't just fall right out of the play-in scenario altogether, and then we can spend a few months talking about how Danny Ainge is a genius for moving up in the draft again.
   3097. tshipman Posted: May 10, 2021 at 07:27 PM (#6018144)
Only if Ainge *almost* makes a trade for a superstar will I consider him a genius.
   3098. Fourth True Outcome Posted: May 10, 2021 at 07:27 PM (#6018145)
Alas, the Celtics are six games up on the eleventh place Bulls with four games left to play, so I don't see that one happening.
   3099. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 10, 2021 at 07:36 PM (#6018147)
Alas, the Celtics are six games up on the eleventh place Bulls with four games left to play, so I don't see that one happening.
the ceiling is the roof.
   3100. PJ Martinez Posted: May 10, 2021 at 08:08 PM (#6018153)
Apparently, Tatum, Brown, Walker, and Smart played 292 minutes together this year, which, according to Sean Grande, ranks 137th among foursomes in the NBA.
Utah has had 13 different combinations of 4-players play together more than the Celtics' core four did.

New York has had 9.

Denver, Dallas, Phoenix and Philadelphia 6.
There are roster issues to be addressed (including whether Walker or Smart should be part of a "core four," e.g.), but it's hard to draw a ton of conclusions from this season.
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