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Friday, December 18, 2020

NBA 2020 Season kick-off thread

I estimate it would take 10-12 Primates to beat James Harden in a wing eating contest.

Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: December 18, 2020 at 02:28 PM | 3341 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: best shape of his life, nba, off-topic

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   3101. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 10, 2021 at 08:19 PM (#6018156)
paige bueckers.
   3102. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: May 10, 2021 at 09:19 PM (#6018168)
Maybe they should consider tanking the play-in game for a lottery pick...


I was told that the genius of the play-in is that it removes tanking from NBA conversations.

Kamenetzky Brothers
@KamBrothers
·
2h
There's no question about the connection. There's also no question the players agreed to these parameters because, like the NBA, they wanted as much money as possible, too. It is what it is. AK
Quote Tweet
JD Cannon
@JamaulCannon
· 2h
Replying to @KamBrothers
Gosh, its almost as if giving all the Conference Finalists last year a whopping two month offseason, led to tons of injuries to all four teams.
   3103. asinwreck Posted: May 10, 2021 at 09:20 PM (#6018169)
paige bueckers.

Yet another New England star who just had surgery.
   3104. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 10, 2021 at 09:58 PM (#6018183)
JD Cannon
@JamaulCannon
· 2h
Replying to @KamBrothers
Gosh, its almost as if giving all the Conference Finalists last year a whopping two month offseason, led to tons of injuries to all four teams.

show me a team that hasn't battled injuries all year, and i'll show you the utah jazz (and, i guess, milwaukee).

everyone had a 4 month hiatus from march to july last year, so no, i don't buy that a "2-month offseason" led to "tons of injuries" for these teams and noone else.


this year's condensed schedule is a problem. the travel is a problem. corona is a problem. a 2-month offseason? that's just some disingenuous bullshit.
   3105. tshipman Posted: May 10, 2021 at 10:32 PM (#6018188)
Apparently, Tatum, Brown, Walker, and Smart played 292 minutes together this year, which, according to Sean Grande, ranks 137th among foursomes in the NBA.
Utah has had 13 different combinations of 4-players play together more than the Celtics' core four did.

New York has had 9.

Denver, Dallas, Phoenix and Philadelphia 6.
There are roster issues to be addressed (including whether Walker or Smart should be part of a "core four," e.g.), but it's hard to draw a ton of conclusions from this season.


That lineup was -4 points per 100 possessions, so not exactly sure that missing that lineup was the cause for Boston's troubles.
   3106. SteveF Posted: May 10, 2021 at 10:49 PM (#6018192)
but it's hard to draw a ton of conclusions from this season.

One conclusion I would draw is that Tatum and Brown aren't good enough players to elevate marginal NBA players into useful ones.
   3107. PJ Martinez Posted: May 10, 2021 at 11:38 PM (#6018197)
I'm still fairly bullish on Tatum. Brown made some encouraging strides on offense, though it's not always clear that those two bring out the best in each other, or that Brown can defend consistently when he's carrying as much of an offensive load as he did this year. Smart's defense didn't seem quite the same this year; he's a little young to have entered a decline phase, but we'll see. Walker may have peaked, which is bad news. I think Rob Williams could be really good if he can stay healthy.

I don't know, this year was a bummer, but I'm not feeling that pessimistic about the future. Ainge had a crappy offseason and Stevens still needs to prove that he can get the most of a roster with high expectations, but they mostly seem good at their jobs. Better luck next year, I hope.
   3108. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: May 11, 2021 at 01:32 AM (#6018209)
show me a team that hasn't battled injuries all year, and i'll show you the utah jazz (and, i guess, milwaukee).


Their 2nd best player is gonna miss around 20 games due to injury and their third best a couple more than that likely, with around half of them at the same time. This is more true of Phoenix than the Jazz by far.
   3109. jmurph Posted: May 11, 2021 at 07:06 AM (#6018210)
show me a team that hasn't battled injuries all year, and i'll show you the utah jazz (and, i guess, milwaukee).

everyone had a 4 month hiatus from march to july last year, so no, i don't buy that a "2-month offseason" led to "tons of injuries" for these teams and noone else.


this year's condensed schedule is a problem. the travel is a problem. corona is a problem. a 2-month offseason? that's just some disingenuous bullshit.

I think this is possibly a defensible argument for several guys. Just thinking through names: Butler always misses a ton of time, and this year dealt with covid. Tatum dealt with covid. Dragic has been frequently hurt for years now. I'm pretty sure Jaylen Brown's recent injury was contact. And LeBron got his leg crushed by a large man.

Kemba's is pretty directly related to the short offseason in that he missed the first couple weeks and never played back to backs, but it's also possible he is just in the "misses time due to knee problems" phase of his career.

The obvious question is Murray, and I guess also Davis, and I'd be surprised if it's possible to say definitively if a longer offseason would have helped with anything. Unless of course Dr. Zop can weigh in. But I do know we generally think it's a good idea to give these guys as much rest as possible, and they didn't get it. And the Olympians aren't going to get it this year, either, and I think the offseason is going to be a little shorter again for everyone.
   3110. spivey 2 Posted: May 11, 2021 at 08:31 AM (#6018217)
With Brown out, getting 2nd I think is a big advantage over 3rd in the East (Miami vs. Boston/Washington). Of course, Milwaukee just gave up 146 points to the Spurs to give Brooklyn the inside track for that.
   3111. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 11, 2021 at 10:21 AM (#6018234)
And the Olympians aren't going to get it this year, either, and I think the offseason is going to be a little shorter again for everyone.
i hadn't really thought about this yet, but yeah, i think we're in for another team USA that doesn't have any stars who are 25+ years old.


get ready for a starting lineup of fox/SGA/lavine/iguodala/towns
   3112. jmurph Posted: May 11, 2021 at 10:38 AM (#6018237)
Towns isn't eligible but yeah, you're probably otherwise right. Which is a bummer, could have been a last (Team USA) hurrah for LeBron and some of the older guys.

Wait SGA is also Canadian. I'm either falling for something or you need to check BBRef more!
   3113. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 11, 2021 at 11:43 AM (#6018252)
Towns isn't eligible but yeah, you're probably otherwise right. Which is a bummer, could have been a last (Team USA) hurrah for LeBron and some of the older guys.

Wait SGA is also Canadian. I'm either falling for something or you need to check BBRef more!
explaining the joke explains the joke.
   3114. tshipman Posted: May 11, 2021 at 02:43 PM (#6018298)
Apparently A-Rod may not be buying the Wolves?
   3115. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 11, 2021 at 04:12 PM (#6018330)
Jon Krawczynski @JonKrawczynski
A reminder: The 30-day negotiating window was not a deadline to get a deal done. If both parties are negotiating in good faith, and they are, a deal can be consummated.




Shams Charania @ShamsCharania
For NBA’s final day of regular season on May 16, all 30 teams — 15 games — will play in afternoon starting between 12-3:30 pm ET.

All six games Saturday will be between same afternoon times.
Shams Charania @ShamsCharania
Based on feedback from teams and player health group, games on Saturday and Sunday will now be within, and outside of, 12-3:30 pm ET window.
   3116. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 11, 2021 at 10:06 PM (#6018435)
when the sixers won 10 games in 2016, their DRTG was 109.2.

that would rank 5th in the NBA this year, just 5 seasons later.



their ORTG that season, 98.8, would rank 30th, nearly 5 points per 100 possessions worse than this season's worst offense, and nearly 15 points per 100 possession worse than league average.


i got 7/31 on the sporcle. that's beatable if you want to try.
   3117. smileyy Posted: May 11, 2021 at 11:21 PM (#6018478)
Domantas Sabonis has been racking up triple doubles lately. I haven't had a chance to see the Pacers play -- how good is he?
   3118. DCA Posted: May 12, 2021 at 12:23 AM (#6018485)
Wiggins earning his contract tonight.
   3119. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: May 12, 2021 at 01:56 AM (#6018490)
This is linked on BTF:

Bob Cousy was told to remember two lines, but the 75-year Worcester resident had a lot more to say.

“I’m Bob Cousy, as you’ve just been told,” he informed the crowd at Polar Park in Worcester’s Canal District on Tuesday, gathered for the inaugural Worcester Red Sox home game as they took on the Syracuse Mets.

The crowd roared.

“You’re being nice,” Cousy quipped. “If my name is even fairly familiar to any of you, that probably means you’re receiving your social security check.”


Pedro Martinez showed up as well. Cousy is 92; he has lived in Worcester for 75 years. Cool that Cousy, Russell, and West are all still around. Chamberlain died many years ago, and MLB HOFers got hit very hard in '20.
   3120. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: May 12, 2021 at 02:00 AM (#6018491)
I am a little bummed out that everybody missed the thread's 12th birthday. Before we know it, it will be getting a learner's permit and wanting to date other threads. The "10-12 Primates" thing has lasted the whole time:

Sunday, May 03, 2009
NBA Playoffs Thread
I estimate that only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA Playoffs, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: the Duke Lacrosse case and Pavement’s discography.

rr Posted: May 03, 2009 at 06:34 PM | 21164 comment(s) | Bookmark
Tags: general


   3121. Randomly Fluctuating Defensive Metric Posted: May 12, 2021 at 06:40 AM (#6018494)
Despite having to wake-up very early for work, I stayed up and watched that fantastic Knicks-Lakers game last night. But I've got to mention, as a 'Bockers fan, how pissed off and emotional I was after yet another (predictable) brutal possession while trailing in the closing seconds of a game. And I couldn't help to direct my ire toward Barrett. According to Basketball-Reference (and I am not an expert on advanced stats, especially with regard to the NBA) Barrett is ranked 211 in Value over replacement player. (Right behind Carmelo Anthony) I'd wager that he has a ton of minutes for a player that low on the leaderboard, relative to other guys. But I'm not sure if that means he's been especially bad, relative to other players with huge minutes. Here's the thing. While I'm not as knowledgable as other Knicks fans, I also feel like I can be more objective. Your die-hard fans can get a notion in their head about how things are supposed to go with the "master-plan" for long-term contention. We're still generally enthusiastic about Barrett as a fan-base. But objectively speaking, this is a team that is being carried by Julius Randle (more VORP than James Harden, for instance, and slightly less than the great Embiid and Zion) along with nice contributions from Rose, Quickley, et. al. Is there room for a conversation about whether Barrett will remotely justify his draft status? Hard not to feel like draft-luck killed us again.
   3122. jmurph Posted: May 12, 2021 at 07:50 AM (#6018495)
This look at defensive stats on the Ringer is really good.
   3123. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: May 12, 2021 at 08:17 AM (#6018499)
Current losing streaks - Detroit 3, Orlando 4, Houston 6, OKC 8, Cleveland 11.
   3124. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 12, 2021 at 08:39 AM (#6018503)
This look at defensive stats on the Ringer is really good.
this was not bad, either:

Most teams struggle when they lose their leading scorer and top source of shot creation. Utah, on the other hand, is 11-5 without Donovan Mitchell this season, and has all but locked up the West’s no. 1 seed with its star guard on the shelf for much of the past month. The Jazz are outscoring opponents by more than 14 points per 100 possessions with Mitchell off the floor, due in large part to the steady backbeat Gobert lays down as the league’s premier rhythm section.

   3125. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 12, 2021 at 11:28 AM (#6018533)
[3122]:
according to NBA Shot Charts’ regularized adjusted plus-minus (RAPM), an advanced metric that aims to encapsulate a player’s holistic impact, Jokic is 1.2 points per 100 possessions below average on defense. That ranks him in just the 8th percentile among players with at least 1,000 minutes.
...
According to FiveThirtyEight’s RAPTOR, another advanced metric that aims to encapsulate a player’s holistic impact, Jokic is 0.8 points above average on defense, ranking in the 65th percentile.
...
According to ESPN’s real plus-minus, yet another advanced metric that aims to encapsulate a player’s holistic impact, Jokic is 1.7 points above average on defense, ranking in the 80th percentile

...If that all sounds confusing, welcome to the world of advanced defensive stats—the toughest nut for the analytics movement to crack. The challenge is not just a matter of evaluating Jokic’s MVP case this season, but of judging the defensive bona fides for every player in the league.

   3126. tshipman Posted: May 12, 2021 at 01:05 PM (#6018553)
So, I am sympathetic to the idea that we should be casting a wide net and evaluating with multiple sources, but the outputs of some of these things are kind of garbo.

If I created a stat called "monkey points" that purported to measure NBA defense, and was in fact just a measure of how many times monkeys flung their #### at a photo of an NBA player, it should not be included in an average.

I submit that some of these defensive stats are closer to monkey points than anything else.
   3127. PJ Martinez Posted: May 12, 2021 at 01:07 PM (#6018555)
You're just saying that because your favorite player has so few monkey points.
   3128. jmurph Posted: May 12, 2021 at 01:10 PM (#6018556)
Everyone knows you have to use Adjusted Monkey Points, you can't just trust what it spits out.

Amateur hour over here.
   3129. jmurph Posted: May 12, 2021 at 01:21 PM (#6018559)
I think it's all interesting even though I don't always agree with what I see in the numbers. On/off and on-court stuff is among the most compelling, I guess, but even then you're dealing with credit to entire lineups and the varying quality of backups, etc. As a fan of a team with some pretty terrible rotation players this season, for example, there's obviously some problems in giving a starter too much credit for his backup being awful.

   3130. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: May 12, 2021 at 01:50 PM (#6018568)
This was from yesterday, but is something else:

Fred Katz @FredKatz ·May 10

The Wizards are 13-4 since April 12. And here’s the bonkers part:

All four losses have been either by one point or in overtime.



---

This was really well done
   3131. tshipman Posted: May 12, 2021 at 02:02 PM (#6018571)
Paul Pierce pooped his pants is in the wrong category.
   3132. spivey 2 Posted: May 12, 2021 at 02:21 PM (#6018576)
Are those all real conspiracies that people believe or have suggested? Besides the Paul Pierce one, I don't think I've seen any of those beyond like 4th tier.
   3133. tshipman Posted: May 12, 2021 at 02:25 PM (#6018577)
I think most of the bottom ones are jokes. I have legitimately heard the "Wilt is Otto Porter's grandpa" one, but as a joke more than anything.

People seriously said that Nike was in control of the KD move. I definitely read that at the time. And that Harden's beard is a technique to accentuate fouls. And that every draft is rigged.

I would be willing to entertain the idea that the introduction of the 3p line was racially motivated, but I'd have to see evidence to that effect.
   3134. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 12, 2021 at 02:37 PM (#6018578)
I think most of the bottom ones are jokes. I have legitimately heard the "Wilt is Otto Porter's grandpa" one, but as a joke more than anything.
if wilt is otto porter's grandfather, who is michael porter jrs?
   3135. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 12, 2021 at 04:11 PM (#6018603)
This was really well done

let's see, how deep do i get...


"lying about ages" -- thon maker hasn't been arrested. yet.

"markelle fultz (everything)" -- yeah, #### this guy

"bettman is david stern's manchurian candidate" -- this one seems legit

"lebron on HGH" -- didn't he go from 265 lbs to 240 lbs that one offseason where the NBA decided to ramp up their PED testing?

"paul pierce pooped pants" -- didn't pp admit the poopoo?

"walton LSD triple double" -- microdosing is a hell of a drug.



so that's as far as i go.
   3136. SteveF Posted: May 12, 2021 at 04:34 PM (#6018611)
It wouldn't shock me if blood doping -- either via erythropoietin or homologous blood transfusions -- was used by a largish (10%) fraction of NBA players. It would be very effective and essentially impossible to detect given the NBA testing regime.

The NBA schedule is pretty brutal.
   3137. Fourth True Outcome Posted: May 12, 2021 at 05:31 PM (#6018622)
As a cycling fan, I've long assumed that any sport combining aerobic intensity, big money, and non-Olympic tier drug testing is rife with PEDs to one degree or another. (And if the NFL's non-dealing with steroids has shown anything about American sports leagues, it's that PEDs are a PR issue much more than a competitive one in how they are handled.) I would bet quite a bit that there has been a decent contingent of the NBA doing some form of blood doping, likely since the league got serious about training in the 90s/00s. It's not like they're doping to get a better jumpshot, just to stay fit for the whole game and recover for the back-to-back. (Personally I don't really condone or condemn; I tend to think it's hard to judge this kind of decision when it's so out of my frame of reference.)
   3138. SteveF Posted: May 12, 2021 at 06:05 PM (#6018625)
It's not like they're doping to get a better jumpshot, just to stay fit for the whole game and recover for the back-to-back

I completely agree. It's not a moral issue for me and I wouldn't have any negative judgment of a player engaged in blood doping. The NBA schedule is brutal.
   3139. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 12, 2021 at 06:32 PM (#6018626)
   3140. tshipman Posted: May 12, 2021 at 06:40 PM (#6018627)
With all the other #### Kobe was willing to do to his body, I'd be shocked if he wasn't using some form of PEDs.

Like, he's willing to go to Germany and inject platelets in his knee, but not take HGH in a pill?

The same for LeBron. LeBron allegedly spends a million dollars a year on his training regime.
   3141. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: May 12, 2021 at 08:14 PM (#6018634)
Kamenetzky Brothers
@KamBrothers
·
4m
No LeBron, AD or Schröder. Revenge game against the team that cut him. This is Ben McLemore’s version of an open bar. AK
   3142. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: May 13, 2021 at 01:53 AM (#6018665)
The Lakers clinched 7th in tonight's G-League game, and 6th is unlikely since POR and DAL each need one win. So, if I were Vogel (and James), I would consider punting on the last two games and being as healthy as possible for the play-in, which will likely be a home game against Golden State (good matchup for clicks and eyeballs). To make the actual playoffs, the Lakers will need to win a home game against GS, or one against MEM or SA. It appears that the losses to Sacramento and Toronto will more or less put the Lakers in the play-in, and rightly so, frankly.

THT is fun to have on the team.
   3143. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: May 13, 2021 at 11:13 AM (#6018685)
If you are of the belief that the Lakers toughest matchup is the Clippers than ending up in the 7th or 8th spot might be a bit better than actually being 6th. Maybe the Lakers can get by Jazz/Suns while LBJ/AD shake some rust off and are closer to the best if/when they play in the later rounds.

I am not saying that that's right or even if the Lakers should be favored in the first round. It's just one way of thinking about things.
   3144. tshipman Posted: May 13, 2021 at 12:53 PM (#6018697)
I sort of generally think that if you want to win a championship, you just focus on winning your games, and don't worry about matchups.

Teams that try to play the matchup game have it backfire as often as succeed, and I feel like it gives a bad mindset to the team.
   3145. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 13, 2021 at 12:56 PM (#6018698)
If you are of the belief that the Lakers toughest matchup is the Clippers than ending up in the 7th or 8th spot might be a bit better than actually being 6th. Maybe the Lakers can get by Jazz/Suns while LBJ/AD shake some rust off and are closer to the best if/when they play in the later rounds.

I am not saying that that's right or even if the Lakers should be favored in the first round. It's just one way of thinking about things.
any halfway decent person should want to see LAL-UTA in the first round.
   3146. asinwreck Posted: May 13, 2021 at 01:45 PM (#6018707)

@ShamsCharania
Former MLB star Alex Rodriguez and tech entrepreneur Marc Lore have reached agreement to purchase the Minnesota Timberwolves from Glen Taylor for $1.5 billion, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium.

@ShamsCharania
Rodriguez and Lore are expected to sign formal paperwork shortly, and sources say A-Rod and Lore are equal, 50-50 partners in the purchase.
   3147. jmurph Posted: May 13, 2021 at 01:55 PM (#6018709)
   3148. tshipman Posted: May 13, 2021 at 02:10 PM (#6018713)
A-Rod has 750 MM liquid? Good for him.
   3149. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: May 13, 2021 at 02:14 PM (#6018715)
Miami Heat guard Victor Oladipo has opted to have season-ending surgery on his right quadriceps tendon, the team announced Wednesday.


I hadn't realized he only played 4 games for them.
   3150. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 13, 2021 at 02:25 PM (#6018717)
A-Rod has 750 MM liquid? Good for him.
hahhhahahha.

noone buys sports teams with money anymore. you just take out huge loans, then put literally no money into the team until you pay those loans off.
   3151. Shohei Brotani (formerly LA Hombre) Posted: May 13, 2021 at 02:59 PM (#6018724)
A-Rod has 750 MM liquid? Good for him.

hahhhahahha.
noone buys sports teams with money anymore. you just take out huge loans, then put literally no money into the team until you pay those loans off.
Yeah, I was gonna say, especially with interest rates well under 3% right now. It reminds of the guy who tried to buy the Islanders with no money, and how close he came to actually doing it. If that guy, with no cash, could almost buy a franchise, then I have to imagine ARod, with stupid amounts of money, could finance a buy relatively easily.
   3152. tshipman Posted: May 13, 2021 at 03:15 PM (#6018727)
There was a bit of sarcasm in my statement.
   3153. asinwreck Posted: May 13, 2021 at 04:10 PM (#6018738)
@ShamsCharania
The Golden State Warriors are planning to sign guard Gary Payton II this weekend, sources tell me and
@anthonyVslater. Payton showed a solid defensive presence during his two 10-day contracts.

There's something right and natural about a Gary Payton playing in the Bay Area, though it would have been better when the Warriors were still in Oakland.
   3154. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 13, 2021 at 05:09 PM (#6018750)
   3155. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 13, 2021 at 08:23 PM (#6018772)
udonis haslem has left the building.
   3156. SteveF Posted: May 13, 2021 at 08:27 PM (#6018773)
If you're going to have a guy ejected it may as well be the guy who is on the roster only because you had an under the table agreement to circumvent the cap.
   3157. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 13, 2021 at 09:05 PM (#6018778)
Ky Carlin @Ky_Carlin
Again, there’s a huge 3-point disparity. The Heat are 8/19 from deep tonight while Philly is 2/10. #Sixers

Noah Levick @NoahLevick
Jimmy Butler, who was 21 for 98 on 3s heading into this game, is 3 for 3 from long range. The Sixers are 2 for 10. A half that couldn't have gone much worse for the Sixers, who are being out-rebounded 27-12.

   3158. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 13, 2021 at 09:46 PM (#6018781)
Derek Bodner @DerekBodnerNBA
The good news is that, with Dwight Howard likely to be suspended for tomorrow's game after picking up his 16th technical, you could be seeing some more Mike Scott tomorrow night.
   3159. spivey 2 Posted: May 13, 2021 at 10:14 PM (#6018785)
Philadelphia by virtue of having the tiebreaker with Brooklyn only has to win 1 of 2 against an Orlando team that is actively trying to lose, and one of them will be B2B and the second will be a 3-in-4. That should be a cakewalk, which means probably the most interesting thing is where 4-5-6 shakes out. Atlanta's last game is against Houston who is trying to lose. New York is playing 2 teams that will probably try to stay out of the 9-10 matchup in Charlotte and Boston, so those could be contested.

And then Miami/Milwaukee is a pretty interesting matchup. Milwaukee is more likely to play Miami in the first round if they win that matchup. With them looking like they're starting to get healthy, I'd rather play the Knicks and probably Atlanta though they're looking pretty safe for the 4 seed.

I don't think I hate Bud quite as much as Ken Griffey does, but I don't trust him in that matchup vs. Spo. We have significantly better shooting, and they're worse at shooting and wing defending, but I still worry about Bud's ability to come up with an offensive gameplan worth a #### against a strong-side defense matchup zone.
   3160. PJ Martinez Posted: May 13, 2021 at 10:48 PM (#6018786)
New York is playing 2 teams that will probably try to stay out of the 9-10 matchup in Charlotte and Boston, so those could be contested.
Celtics are locked into the 7th seed now. No reason for them to contest their remaining games.
   3161. Thok Posted: May 14, 2021 at 07:00 AM (#6018802)
I hope the NBA gives a bonus for whoever managed to get Golden State-Memphis as one of the last games of the season.
   3162. asinwreck Posted: May 14, 2021 at 07:48 AM (#6018803)
"It was fun," Haslem said afterward. "It was fun. For me to just go out there and play the game of basketball, show that I can continue to play at a high level and help my team win, it was fun.

"It's a great memory. And, if this is the last one, I finished it the only way Udonis Haslem could: with an ejection."
   3163. jmurph Posted: May 14, 2021 at 07:53 AM (#6018804)
Jimmy Butler, who was 21 for 98 on 3s heading into this game, is 3 for 3 from long range.

Ahh, I see the Heat are rounding into their "make all the shots in the playoffs" form. Excuse me while I smash everything in my vicinity.
   3164. jmurph Posted: May 14, 2021 at 07:54 AM (#6018805)
Celtics are locked into the 7th seed now. No reason for them to contest their remaining games.

Celtics: Way ahead of you, PJ.
   3165. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: May 14, 2021 at 07:58 AM (#6018806)
I think every single one of tonight's games has a team with something kinda/sorta left to play for playing a team with nothing to play for. Boo. Oh well, playoffs next week.
   3166. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 14, 2021 at 08:29 AM (#6018809)
I think the play in increased competition down the stretch, but no system is going to ensure down to the wire action (sadly).
   3167. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: May 14, 2021 at 09:28 AM (#6018818)
I think the play in increased competition down the stretch, but no system is going to ensure down to the wire action (sadly).


For sure, I just figured there had to be ONE game between teams with something to play for. Just weird how this particular night shakes out with 8 teams with something, even if that's a little something, to play for and 8 teams without and they seemed to match up perfectly one-for-one.
   3168. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: May 14, 2021 at 09:43 AM (#6018820)
I sort of wonder about what a full 30(2?) team playoff would look like. I think it would be awesome, but I'm open to the idea that the unforeseen side effects would be really bad.
   3169. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: May 14, 2021 at 10:33 AM (#6018827)
Odd timing, and as far as I know he didn't pull a Pierce, but CWeb is done at TNT.

When they lost Marv last night and Reggie had to carry the broadcast....well, the silence was some of the best work of Reggie's broadcasting career.
   3170. tshipman Posted: May 14, 2021 at 12:17 PM (#6018835)
The CWebb thing is that apparently he was supposed to be on March Madness. It was voluntary because there was a bubble for the announcers. He asked out at the last minute and kind of screwed TNT, who got pissed.
   3171. spivey 2 Posted: May 14, 2021 at 01:43 PM (#6018839)
I just want Wade and Candace Parker back.
   3172. asinwreck Posted: May 14, 2021 at 02:15 PM (#6018844)
@malika_andrews
Steve Nash said he expects the Nets' Big 3 of Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant and James Harden to play together in Saturday's game against the Chicago Bulls.

It will be the just the eighth game they've played together this season.
   3173. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 14, 2021 at 04:52 PM (#6018875)
Odd timing, and as far as I know he didn't pull a Pierce, but CWeb is done at TNT.
good.
I just want Wade and Candace Parker back.

i'll always hold out hope that malik rose would get back into announcing, but he's probably content as the NBA's VP of basketball operations.
   3174. Fourth True Outcome Posted: May 14, 2021 at 06:03 PM (#6018882)
Clayton Wilson, former equiptment manager: When KG was a rookie he tried to block a shot in L.A. and cut the area between his second and third fingers pretty bad. They ended up getting him these cloth finger sleeves that would keep his fingers together. He only needed to wear them for a couple weeks until his injury healed. But he started playing so well that he ended up wearing one for the next 20 years. KG said that they could not be washed because that would wash the luck out. So Kevin would wear them in practices until they got broken in and then would put them in his right shoe as we traveled from city to city.

The final game of the 2003-04 season was in Memphis. If we won the game we were the first seed. If we lost we were the fourth seed playing the Lakers. At shootaround in the morning, KG asked where his finger sleeves were.

I said, “Aren’t they in your right shoe?” He said they weren’t. So we tried to figure out where they were. Our rehab guy, Andre (Deloya), had changed out KG’s orthotics the night before and thrown the shoes in the shoe bag. Kevin wouldn’t wear new (sleeves) so we had no used ones on the road. After shootaround, Kevin went to the training room to get some work and I broke the news to him (that the finger sleeve wasn’t there). Myself, Andre and (athletic trainer) Gregg Farnam all took the blame.

Kevin was quiet for about 15 minutes and then said, “At the end of the day it’s my responsibility to put my finger sleeve in my right shoe so it is my fault.” The room was dead silent for 30 straight minutes, which is unheard of. After Kevin left, we decided that if we lost the game, it would probably be because of the finger sleeve.

We called back to Minnesota, had the custodian grab a finger sleeve out of KG‘s locker, had Sam Cassell‘s friend drive it to the airport, got a Delta pilot that was going to Memphis to bring it with him, had a driver pick it up at the airport and bring it to the Pyramid in Memphis. I was waiting for the driver in the parking lot 30 minutes before tipoff. The driver showed up. I grab the finger sleeve and sprinted to the locker room. KG had 10 hot packs on his body just trying to loosen up watching film. I said here you go young fella and put it into his hand like a person giving a valet a tip. He did about four fist pumps. The first play of the game, he did a step back on Pau Gasol and swish! He back pedals the whole way down the court pounding his chest and pointing at me.

Flip says what is that about? I said, you don’t even want to know.

Garnett scored 26 points on 9-for-13 shooting, grabbed nine rebounds and blocked two shots in a 107-90 win.

Just a tremendous collection of KG stories over at The Athletic today if you have a subscription. I'd always been curious what the deal was with his finger sleeve.
   3175. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: May 14, 2021 at 06:10 PM (#6018883)
The Wiggins one is :chefskiss:
   3176. tshipman Posted: May 14, 2021 at 08:07 PM (#6018896)
Why is every KG story so ####### funny?
   3177. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: May 14, 2021 at 08:09 PM (#6018897)
Why is every KG story so ####### funny?

Because that dude is ####### weird. He remains my favourite or second favourite player ever, having seen him at Farragut Academy, and then becoming a Wolves fan.
   3178. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 14, 2021 at 08:46 PM (#6018898)
Because that dude is ####### weird. He remains my favourite or second favourite player ever, having seen him at Farragut Academy, and then becoming a Wolves fan.
yeah he is.
   3179. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 14, 2021 at 09:09 PM (#6018901)
jaden springer, tennessee:

fringe burst
he's tough
below the rim athlete
plays just a little faster than late-career andre miller.
one-move ballhandler.
he has the tempo to be a good pnr ballhandler, but he doesn't have experience at it, and i'm not sure he has the courtvision for it, either.

i don't buy him as a scorer. he seems to play a little too slow to be able to do it at an NBA level.

he would not be on my draft board.


lottery: suggs. mitchell.
top 40: johnson, bouknight, giddey, christopher, moody.
fringe draftable: springer.
   3180. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 14, 2021 at 09:20 PM (#6018902)
miles mcbride, west virgina:

this is my kind of guy.
good wiggle
good burst
good tempo
good vision
tight handle
low center of gravity
quick feet
amphibious

just a really solid PG prospect. i don't see star potential, but he seems like a reasonably solid bet to be a starting caliber, top 25-ish, PG.



lottery: suggs. mitchell.
top 40: johnson, mcbride, bouknight, giddey, christopher, moody.
fringe draftable: springer.
   3181. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: May 14, 2021 at 09:30 PM (#6018903)
My top five players:

Garnett, A. Sabonis, A. Mahmoud-Rauf, Doug West, Tim Hardaway

It's weird, I'll grant that.
   3182. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 14, 2021 at 09:36 PM (#6018904)
nahshon hyland, VCU:

he weighs 120 lbs
his release is really good. most players load, then shoot. hyland uses the steph curry style one motion release, so the ball is out of his hands before you can get to it.
he is all elbows and knees.

this one's tough. he can clearly shoot, and he can get his shot. but can he defend? and will defenders respect his drive enough that he'll have space on the perimeter?

best case scenario, i see shades of zach lavine.


lottery: suggs. mitchell.
top 40: johnson, mcbride, hyland, giddey, bouknight, christopher, moody.
fringe draftable: springer.
   3183. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 14, 2021 at 09:55 PM (#6018906)
tre mann, florida:

fringe wiggle
fringe burst
he has a stepback j
he's a finesse player
it's fun to say "mann handling"
footwork is unrefined.
not a precision passer.
tempo is not a strength.
doesn't have much funk.


it might not sound like it based on what i've said, but there's a lot to like here. if he hits, there are shades of malcolm brogdon, on both ends. i don't see "star potential" here, but i do see "star in your role" potential.


lottery: suggs. mitchell.
top 40: johnson, mcbride, mann, hyland, giddey, bouknight, christopher, moody.
fringe draftable: springer.
   3184. tshipman Posted: May 14, 2021 at 10:49 PM (#6018908)
jaden springer, tennessee:

i don't buy him as a scorer. he seems to play a little too slow to be able to do it at an NBA level.

he would not be on my draft board.


miles mcbride, west virgina:

this is my kind of guy.


One of these guys is two years younger than the other, played a harder schedule and is two inches taller.
   3185. CFBF's Results are Certified Posted: May 14, 2021 at 11:28 PM (#6018911)
I can only assume that "doesn't have much funk" literally means that Mann doesn't stream much funk music.
   3186. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: May 15, 2021 at 08:22 AM (#6018920)
So if I'm reading this right, Denver could keep the Lakers, if they go 2-0 this weekend, out of the play in by beating Portland. But their reward would be first round with the Lakers.
   3187. spivey 2 Posted: May 15, 2021 at 11:44 AM (#6018927)
That story in 3174 is amazing. KG was outstanding in Uncut Gems, and that story sounds like something straight out of the movie.
   3188. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 15, 2021 at 12:00 PM (#6018930)
One of these guys is two years younger than the other, played a harder schedule and is two inches taller.

west virginia played 12 games against ranked teams (4 were ranked in the top 5 at tip off), going 5-7. their strength of schedule (via cbb-ref) was 25th.

tennessee played 4 games against ranked teams (only 1 was ranked in the top 10 at tip off), going 2-2. their strength of schedule was 55th.



but yes, mcbride is two years older and 2 inches shorter than springer, so you're probably right to insinuate that he could never be the better NBA prospect.
   3189. tshipman Posted: May 15, 2021 at 12:24 PM (#6018931)
Fair play, I didn't check the schedule and just went off reputation.
   3190. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 15, 2021 at 12:40 PM (#6018932)
Fair play, I didn't check the schedule and just went off reputation.

yeah, you gotta come harder if you want this smoke.

i do think it's a mistake to get hung up on that kind of biographical information though, which is one of the reasons why i keep doing this, year after year. compare cj mccollum pre-draft to zach lavine one year later:

age: 22 vs. 19
height: 6'3 vs. 6'5
school: lehigh vs. UCLA
conference: patriot vs. pac-13

that's a TKO, if you're just looking at biographical context, but POR still got a hell of a lot more out of mccollum than MIN got out of lavine.

mccollum's rookie contract was good for 2 years of fringe all-star production. and then POR extended him based on that performance.
otoh, MIN got 3 years of fringe average (at best) production from lavine, but then traded him because they didn't want to pay him for as-of-yet unrealized potential.
   3191. tshipman Posted: May 15, 2021 at 12:57 PM (#6018935)
i do think it's a mistake to get hung up on that kind of biographical information though, which is one of the reasons why i keep doing this, year after year. compare cj mccollum pre-draft to zach lavine one year later:


Age is like the single most important factor in evaluating a prospect (once they've already cleared the bar of being advised to be drafted).

I'm not sure your example works for you. CJ had significantly better college stats than LaVine. I'm not sure who the better player is now. LaVine is a better offensive player. They're both arsonists on defense.

These two players, who I don't know well, are very similar statistically. If you're evaluating physical tools, the most important ones are age and height.
   3192. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 15, 2021 at 01:08 PM (#6018937)
MIN got 3 years of fringe average (at best) production from lavine, but then traded him because they didn't want to pay him for as-of-yet unrealized potential.


I am not part of the rest of this discussion, but the take on why Lavine was traded from the Wolves could not possibly be more wrong.

Lavine was Flip's guy and if Flip had not died he would still be on the team. Once Thibs took over Thibs wanted Butler and had no connection to Lavine and that is who the Bulls wanted (there was more to the trade than that obviously).

It was absolutely not the case that MN was dumping Lavine because of future salary.
   3193. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: May 15, 2021 at 01:21 PM (#6018940)
LeBron looks healthy in his first game back so far, 4 points and 4 assists in six minutes, and just dunked viciously on an alley-oop from Schroder.
   3194. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 15, 2021 at 01:56 PM (#6018943)
Age is like the single most important factor in evaluating a prospect (once they've already cleared the bar of being advised to be drafted).

are you saying that you would just write off NCAA upperclassmen like jimmy butler, draymond green, khris middleton, jordan bell, malcolm brogdon, mikal bridges? steph curry? damian lillard?
These two players, who I don't know well, are very similar statistically. If you're evaluating physical tools, the most important ones are age and height.

that may be true at the top of the draft, but once you get outside the top 5-ish picks, the difference between prospects isn't so clear cut.
Lavine was Flip's guy and if Flip had not died he would still be on the team. Once Thibs took over Thibs wanted Butler and had no connection to Lavine and that is who the Bulls wanted (there was more to the trade than that obviously).
yeah, but that story is a lot less funny, so....
   3195. tshipman Posted: May 15, 2021 at 02:24 PM (#6018945)
are you saying that you would just write off NCAA upperclassmen like jimmy butler, draymond green, khris middleton, jordan bell, malcolm brogdon, mikal bridges? steph curry? damian lillard?


I'm saying you need to discount the performance of older prospects, which is not exactly cutting edge analysis. If you have two guys who are basically equivalent, the younger guy is the better prospect.

You can list all those guys, but what about Gary Clark, Sindarius Thornwell, Denzel Valentine and Frank Kaminsky?
   3196. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: May 15, 2021 at 08:24 PM (#6018973)
I'm saying you need to discount the performance of older prospects, which is not exactly cutting edge analysis. If you have two guys who are basically equivalent, the younger guy is the better prospect

but what are you discounting? and to what extent? the older player isn't 10% slower than he appears just because he's older. his ballhandling isn't 14.6% less effective.

"basically equivalent" is doing too much heavy lifting here. if this was all so easy that you could say "bol bol is younger and taller than everyone else; just pick him", then minnesota wouldn't be stuck in a 20+ year cycle of rebuilding.
You can list all those guys, but what about Gary Clark, Sindarius Thornwell, Denzel Valentine and Frank Kaminsky?

busts exist in all shapes and sizes.
   3197. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: May 15, 2021 at 08:44 PM (#6018976)
but what are you discounting?



Typically potential. Younger players generally have more room to improve.
   3198. GregD Posted: May 15, 2021 at 09:14 PM (#6018982)
Anecdotally it does seem a number of three and four year guys picked in low first to second develop into rotation guys so I have always wondered if the late pick people are overvaluing a small chance of stardom and undervaluing a rotation guy. Especially since raw younger guys don’t often develop within the rookie contract timeframe. But does anyone know if that’s really true?
   3199. asinwreck Posted: May 16, 2021 at 09:42 AM (#6019018)
Webber and Pierce apparently are going into the Naismith Hall of Fame together right after each man's broadcasting job ended.
   3200. stanmvp48 Posted: May 16, 2021 at 10:02 AM (#6019019)
Do the Nuggets have a disincentive to win today?
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