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Friday, December 18, 2020

NBA 2020 Season kick-off thread

I estimate it would take 10-12 Primates to beat James Harden in a wing eating contest.

Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: December 18, 2020 at 02:28 PM | 3341 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: best shape of his life, nba, off-topic

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   601. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: January 10, 2021 at 04:55 PM (#5998852)
Pilf
   602. tshipman Posted: January 10, 2021 at 05:08 PM (#5998857)
So the Heat/Celtics game is suspended because the *Heat* don't have enough players.

The Heat played the Wizards yesterday. The whole Wizards being the typhoid mary of the NBA is a weird subplot, particularly since the Wizards keep testing negative.

I don't know what to make of any of this.
   603. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: January 10, 2021 at 05:13 PM (#5998858)
So question for guys who have been following more closely than I have: should the league have stayed in the bubble?
   604. tshipman Posted: January 10, 2021 at 05:42 PM (#5998862)
The bubble wasn't workable for 9 months, IMO.
   605. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: January 10, 2021 at 05:45 PM (#5998863)
Right, but I was thinking short schedule--you know me, all about the shorter season.
   606. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: January 10, 2021 at 05:50 PM (#5998865)
So question for guys who have been following more closely than I have: should the league have stayed in the bubble?
no.

a playoff bubble made sense because there were a limited number of teams, and half of them get eliminated every 2 weeks. playing the whole season in a bubble, even if it would be cut down to 4 months, plus the playoffs, is just way too much.


what's happening in the NBA is a reflection of what's happening all over america. more people tested positive for covid last week than ever before; more people died from covid last week than ever before. with the amount of travel NBA teams are doing, the number of people they're coming into contact with, the hotels they're staying at, the cabs and busses they're driving in....this is just not tenable.

i hope the league office deciding to postpone today's game is an indication that they know that this can't go on. they can't be the NFL; they can't just plow through the season while teams dress 4 guys off the street to get a game in.
   607. tshipman Posted: January 10, 2021 at 05:53 PM (#5998866)
Right, but I was thinking short schedule--you know me, all about the shorter season.


The problem with a short season and a short bubble is that it would mean greatly decreased revenue due to having to lose out on TV broadcast money.

So that was also unworkable in a real sense. The players were willing to keep funds in escrow, but not willing to take what would amount to a 50% cut in money.

None of this is terribly surprising, tbh. It sort of mimics the pattern that is happening in the country at large, as Stiggles points out.
   608. asinwreck Posted: January 10, 2021 at 05:54 PM (#5998867)
They did get the Christmas games in for TV, so I imagine the league feels it got its basic goal in starting the season. I can't imagine they really thought the schedule would proceed as drawn up, even for just half a season.
   609. SteveF Posted: January 10, 2021 at 06:00 PM (#5998868)
At least we'll get a G League season in.
   610. asinwreck Posted: January 11, 2021 at 09:16 AM (#5998951)
I'm impressed with the progress the Bulls have made over last season. Despite the chaos caused by the pandemic, the team is adapting to having a functional offense, and Patrick Williams just got done doing a solid job of guarding HOF players. I'd be happy with several last-minute losses like the ones they've had this week as long as the team continues to make the kind of improvements they've demonstrated since the first two games of the season. (While picking in the lottery again.)
   611. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 11, 2021 at 10:14 AM (#5998966)
The Wolves do make a lot more sense when Towns is available.
   612. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: January 11, 2021 at 10:33 AM (#5998976)
I'm impressed with the progress the Bulls have made over last season. Despite the chaos caused by the pandemic, the team is adapting to having a functional offense, and Patrick Williams just got done doing a solid job of guarding HOF players. I'd be happy with several last-minute losses like the ones they've had this week as long as the team continues to make the kind of improvements they've demonstrated since the first two games of the season. (While picking in the lottery again.)

Agreed. The overall stats don't reflect it yet - mostly because of how bad those first 2 games were, but this is clearly a better team than last year. There's just a level of competence that we haven't seen in some time. The roster still ain't great and I'm not sure which young guys are worth keeping and which aren't (besides The Florist), but I've been really happy with Donovan.
   613. jmurph Posted: January 11, 2021 at 10:57 AM (#5998980)
I've been watching the Warriors a lot and keep thinking that they'd really make a lot of sense with just one more shooter... and then I remember Klay Thompson exists and is missing his 2nd straight year. What a huge bummer that is.
   614. tshipman Posted: January 11, 2021 at 01:27 PM (#5999008)
I've been watching the Warriors a lot and keep thinking that they'd really make a lot of sense with just one more shooter... and then I remember Klay Thompson exists and is missing his 2nd straight year. What a huge bummer that is.


Early days, but just in support of this, Warriors with Damion Lee and Steph are +20. Lee primarily replaces Oubre in the lineup, so not exactly breaking news that 48% 3p shooting is better than 14%.
   615. jmurph Posted: January 11, 2021 at 01:52 PM (#5999012)
Lee primarily replaces Oubre in the lineup, so not exactly breaking news that 48% 3p shooting is better than 14%.

I can't decide if running your offense (basically) the same to generate open 3s for terrible shooters like Oubre, etc., is genius or madness. Pretty sure the latter?
   616. asinwreck Posted: January 11, 2021 at 01:54 PM (#5999013)
@wojespn
Dallas doesn't have the eight eligible players, so Mavericks-Pelicans is postponed tonight, sources tell ESPN.
12:45 PM · Jan 11, 2021


@wojespn
NBA has postponed Celtics-Bulls on Tuesday too, league says. Source says Boston remains short the necessary players.
12:51 PM · Jan 11, 2021
   617. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: January 11, 2021 at 01:59 PM (#5999015)
[616] worth noting that both of those games are intraconference, whereas saturday's sixers-nuggets game that was forced through was not.
   618. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: January 11, 2021 at 02:38 PM (#5999022)
Noah Levick @NoahLevick
The Sixers have been fined $25,000 for not listing Ben Simmons on the initial injury report for Saturday's game vs. the Nuggets, the NBA announces. Simmons missed the game with left knee swelling and is listed out tonight with the same injury.
   619. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: January 11, 2021 at 02:39 PM (#5999024)
From Pelton, current WARP leaderboard so far.

   620. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: January 11, 2021 at 02:55 PM (#5999027)
From Pelton, current WARP leaderboard so far.
it does not immediately fail the smell test.
   621. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: January 11, 2021 at 03:21 PM (#5999037)
it is strange to me that the league didn't, pre-g league bubble, have a bubble of covid replacement players at the ready, maintained on the league's dime. i imagine some useful players would have accepted low-to-zero wages in order to be first responders in the situations we're seeing now.
   622. asinwreck Posted: January 11, 2021 at 03:22 PM (#5999039)
@wojespn·
1h
The NBA has set a special Board of Governors meeting for Tuesday, sources tell ESPN.

@wojespn·
1h
Among topics for GM call today centered on tightening protocols, sources tell ESPN: Re-examining shootarounds and practice lengths, pre-and-post game socializing on court (for example, hugs), further restrictions on restaurant dining and tighter rules on mask-wearing.
   623. tshipman Posted: January 11, 2021 at 04:37 PM (#5999060)
I only support a pause in play if the Sixers are forced to keep playing.
   624. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 11, 2021 at 04:47 PM (#5999064)
I support a pause in play if it means that the Wolves get to keep their 2021 draft pick.
   625. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: January 11, 2021 at 06:06 PM (#5999088)
Oleh Kosel @OlehKosel
Stan Van Gundy isn't worried about the basketball-related issue regarding delays, etc, but rather life and death when it comes to Covid-19. "I'm 61 year's old. This #### scares me...I want everybody to be just as careful as possible."
   626. CFBF is Obsessed with Art Deco Posted: January 11, 2021 at 06:45 PM (#5999097)
Now I want the NBA to come up with a ridiculously elaborate and detailed breakdown of what kind of on-court socializing is allowed.

Helping a player up after he falls to the court? Acceptable.

Fist bumps? Each player gets two (2) fist bumps per game.

Hugs? Absolutely forbidden.
   627. tshipman Posted: January 11, 2021 at 07:51 PM (#5999113)
Undercook chicken? Jail.
Overcook chicken? Believe it or not, jail.
   628. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: January 11, 2021 at 08:10 PM (#5999119)
Something to keep an eye on in Milwaukee: after this past weekend when the Jazz scorched the Bucks for 25 3s, Jrue said postgame he would prefer to switch more. Tonight in Orlando they're switching way more than usual, with Jrue as the most aggressive. He just switched with Giannis onto Aaron Gordon. Gordon tried to back him down, failed, and then tried a stepback that Jrue packed immediately out of his hand so it was a jump ball.

Anyway, Jrue rules and it's nice to see him nudging Bud's tendencies.
   629. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: January 11, 2021 at 09:38 PM (#5999135)
Rich Hoffman @rich_hofmann
Sixers just lost the second and third quarters by a combined score of 69-32, lol.
Ky Carlin @Ky_Carlin
And Philly has to play again tomorrow? Man, that’s brutal. #Sixers
   630. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: January 11, 2021 at 09:57 PM (#5999139)
Rich Hoffman @rich_hofmann
Doc Rivers on any positives he can take from tonight's game: "Well, we got out of it healthy. And we get to see the second half of the Alabama game."

   631. asinwreck Posted: January 12, 2021 at 10:37 AM (#5999224)
@ShamsCharania
The Wizards have canceled today's practice after two players enter health and safety protocols, team says.
10:22 AM · Jan 12, 2021
   632. jmurph Posted: January 12, 2021 at 11:20 AM (#5999228)
Eyes emoji:
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
Sources with @Malika_Andrews: As the NBA is expected to begin examining online videos circulating of a maskless Kyrie Irving at a family birthday party, there’s no belief that he will return to the Brooklyn Nets lineup this week.
   633. spivey 2 Posted: January 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM (#5999229)
Something to keep an eye on in Milwaukee: after this past weekend when the Jazz scorched the Bucks for 25 3s, Jrue said postgame he would prefer to switch more. Tonight in Orlando they're switching way more than usual, with Jrue as the most aggressive. He just switched with Giannis onto Aaron Gordon. Gordon tried to back him down, failed, and then tried a stepback that Jrue packed immediately out of his hand so it was a jump ball.

Anyway, Jrue rules and it's nice to see him nudging Bud's tendencies.


That is great to see. I've not watched them much, but the pieces all seem to be fitting pretty well.

Giannis seems like he's just a very bad free throw shooter now, which is pretty disappointing. And Augustin I think will go down as a waste of money. But on the whole, the roster makes a bit more sense to me. Portis' athleticism makes more sense as a backup big than RoLo and Jrue helps a lot.

Middleton is off to another monster start this year, though I think he's officially at the same point in his career as Giannis where people won't take him as seriously as his numbers suggest unless they make the Finals.
   634. tshipman Posted: January 12, 2021 at 11:52 AM (#5999240)
Sources with @Malika_Andrews: As the NBA is expected to begin examining online videos circulating of a maskless Kyrie Irving at a family birthday party, there’s no belief that he will return to the Brooklyn Nets lineup this week.


Is getting KD worth having to deal with Kyrie?
   635. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: January 12, 2021 at 12:00 PM (#5999244)
What a terrible year it must be to be a bookie.
   636. spivey 2 Posted: January 12, 2021 at 12:00 PM (#5999245)
It's early, but Toronto is digging themselves into a hole that could take all year to get out of.
   637. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: January 12, 2021 at 12:05 PM (#5999247)
What a terrible year it must be to be a bookie.

they take the vig, either way, though, so i can't imagine it's that bad.
   638. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: January 12, 2021 at 12:12 PM (#5999250)
Everyone was talking all somberly about Kyrie leaving the team for personal reasons, you know "I sure hope everything is ok" and all that. That's not to say he didn't have a legit reason, but...
   639. jmurph Posted: January 12, 2021 at 12:15 PM (#5999251)
Everyone was talking all somberly about Kyrie leaving the team for personal reasons, you know "I sure hope everything is ok" and all that. That's not to say he didn't have a legit reason, but...

Whatever the reason, the most important thing is that it will somehow be everyone else's fault, as usual.
   640. NJ in NJ Posted: January 12, 2021 at 12:55 PM (#5999261)
The Kyrie rumors I've heard are all over the place (not from Twitter, but from People Who Know Things). Some would excuse the absence. That was all before the sister's party incident though.
   641. Paul d mobile Posted: January 12, 2021 at 01:30 PM (#5999272)
It's early, but Toronto is digging themselves into a hole that could take all year to get out of.

Back to back one point losses on a west coast trip is tough.

Not necessarily Toronto specific, but at what point of the season do you call it over? Trade veterants (Lowry), reduce best player (Van Vleet's) minutes, and wait for next year?

Or do you try to improve now? (Horford?)
   642. jmurph Posted: January 12, 2021 at 01:38 PM (#5999277)
Not necessarily Toronto specific, but at what point of the season do you call it over?

This doesn't quite answer your question but Pelton has made the case in the past that some of team stats tend to stabilize around the 20 game mark (can't find this reference now, but I'm pretty sure I'm remembering this correctly).
   643. tshipman Posted: January 12, 2021 at 01:52 PM (#5999282)
Or do you try to improve now? (Horford?)


Sam Presti is willing to accept your first round picks.
   644. spivey 2 Posted: January 12, 2021 at 02:45 PM (#5999297)
This doesn't quite answer your question but Pelton has made the case in the past that some of team stats tend to stabilize around the 20 game mark (can't find this reference now, but I'm pretty sure I'm remembering this correctly).


That feels about right to me. I'd give the team about 10 more games to see what's up. I wouldn't try any win-now moves that jeopardized the future, though.

Though looking at their future, Lowry walks. Let's say Powell and Baynes options aren't picked up. That gives them room to get about the max. Anunoby is also earning a lot of money, probably too much imo.

Basically, I like Siakam and VanVleet, but you either need a guy better than them, or probably 2 guys as good as them, to win the title. They're also 26, so youngish, but in their prime. I think bringing in Horford just locks up their cap space and kind of throws away those years. Even not subscribing to championship or bust, I think there's a bunch of ways they can use that money to get better and be more exciting.
   645. tshipman Posted: January 12, 2021 at 02:58 PM (#5999301)
If you are going to go all in for a big, shouldn't you get Vucevic?

I don't exactly think he's championship caliber, but if you really trust your coach, he's 30, and coming off of 3 straight years of AS level performance. He spaces the floor and is a good rebounder.
   646. Paul d mobile Posted: January 12, 2021 at 03:18 PM (#5999309)
Maybe you get the guy better than Siakam and Van Vleet by tanking this year?

Probably not though, although might be a better plan than listening to my butcher.
   647. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: January 12, 2021 at 03:22 PM (#5999311)
Middleton is off to another monster start this year, though I think he's officially at the same point in his career as Giannis where people won't take him as seriously as his numbers suggest unless they make the Finals.


If that is true of Antetokounmpo, then it is mostly just narrative. Middleton, however, has posted playoff PERs below 15 four of the five years that he has been in postseason, including each of the last two. So in his case, it is warranted. As per Bask Ref, Milwaukee through 11 games is again leading the NBA in PYTH and Point Differential (the Lakers are second) so Milwaukee will likely end up with the best record in the NBA again. We will see what happens in May.

Re 20 games/stabilization: I think Pelton has said that, yes.
   648. tshipman Posted: January 12, 2021 at 05:30 PM (#5999340)
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
2h
Among protocol changes now agreed upon: NBA players can no longer interact with non-team guests at road hotels, sources tell ESPN. Players were allowed to have guests in rooms, but that is no longer the case.


lol at the careful wording.
   649. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: January 12, 2021 at 07:31 PM (#5999367)
what the #### is on kelly olynyks neck?
   650. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 12, 2021 at 07:50 PM (#5999372)
That's his head, stiggles.
   651. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: January 12, 2021 at 07:52 PM (#5999373)
That's his head, stiggles.
it's a merkin.
   652. tshipman Posted: January 12, 2021 at 08:37 PM (#5999384)
James Harden looks out of shape these days.
   653. PJ Martinez Posted: January 12, 2021 at 08:42 PM (#5999386)
I haven't been following all the Kyrie reporting, but it appears he's doing something wholesome this evening.
   654. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: January 12, 2021 at 08:53 PM (#5999390)
The Lakers are way more deep on offense than they were last year.
   655. Tin Angel Posted: January 12, 2021 at 11:46 PM (#5999415)
This dude is such a joke.

Tim MacMahon @espn_macmahon
James Harden says Rockets are "just not good enough ... I love this city. I literally have done everything that I can. I mean, this situation is crazy. It’s something that I don’t think can be fixed."
   656. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: January 13, 2021 at 08:21 AM (#5999430)
I don't want to defend Harden specifically, but isn't the Harden situation sort of the logical extension of All That Matters Are Rings?

He's not going to win a Ring with Houston. Since All That Matters Are Rings, shouldn't he be trying to get out?
   657. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 13, 2021 at 08:23 AM (#5999431)
I think you guys are being too hard, James has done everything he can. How can you ask him to do something he can't do?

Seriously though, whatever. I suspect most professional athletes are spoiled brats on some level, but I don't have to be their friend and they are not my role-models. They are amazing players, and James Harden is - despite all his many flaws - an amazing basketball player.

Of course, I am also happy he is not on my team. They have enough problems without dealing with that.
   658. spivey 2 Posted: January 13, 2021 at 08:53 AM (#5999435)
I won't defend Harden going to strip clubs without a mask.

But I'm actually going to defend Harden wanting out. He's given Houston 8 years of his prime. He's probably only got 2-3 years of near prime left. If he's going to win as the main guy, it's now or never. Houston made some really poor personnel decisions and as such they are already at the luxury tax, without draft assets, so don't really have any good ways to get better around Harden.

I'm all for player agency, given that teams have no problems shipping guys as salary makeweight, and especially given how much Harden has given Houston.

   659. jmurph Posted: January 13, 2021 at 08:58 AM (#5999438)
Houston made some really poor personnel decisions and as such they are already at the luxury tax, without draft assets, so don't really have any good ways to get better around Harden.

I agree that they shouldn't have caved to Harden's wishes and made one of the worst trades in league history to get Westbrook. It would have been interesting to see what they could have done if Morey had traded Harden a year ago, instead (not that the owner would have allowed it).
   660. NJ in NJ Posted: January 13, 2021 at 09:18 AM (#5999440)
I am usually pro player, but I find the Harden situation really distasteful. To whatever extent the Rockets are ######, Harden and his inability to get along with any of the Harden-approved stars Houston brought in is a huge part of the reason they're in the mess they're in. As I texted to my basketball group chat last night, if I owned the Rockets Harden's complete lack of professionalism about the situation would motivate me to just keep him and waste his prime until his contract runs out so we can be miserable together.

People point to Davis, who obviously wanted out, but he still showed up (in shape) and put together a great season when allowed to play. Harden is completely out of shape and not even attempting to LOOK like he's trying while in the game. There was a play last night where the Rockets got the turnover and were in a 5 on 4, Harden with the ball and he (a) refused to push pace, coming up the court at what could best be described as a light jog before (b) "throwing" one of the absolute worst/most predictable lob passes I've ever seen, which ended up effectively being a high chest pass to Marc Gasol standing right in front of Harden. I've defended Harden's style of play and past criticisms of his physical fitness/work ethic, but seriously, #### that guy.
   661. spivey 2 Posted: January 13, 2021 at 09:57 AM (#5999451)
Even granting that Harden pushed for the Paul/Westbrook trade, I think a strong front office and coaching staff still needs to be able to make the best decision for the team. There are flare ups between players and managing that sort of stuff is part of the job. If they couldn't do that with Harden, it's as much on them as it is on Harden. The "We can't control him/we just have to do what he says" doesn't get far with me - that's your job, and you're paid extraordinarily well for it.

And if they did feel like they had to trade Paul for Westbrook, they should not have needed to attach all of the draft assets they did. It was an awful deal, even granting they wanted to deal Paul. I don' think OKC had that much leverage either. They'd just dealt George, Westbrook was coming off of a poor year and wanted out, Westbrook was on the supermax so not a lot of teams could or would want to add him, and OKC seemed willing to do right by Westbrook for his years of service.

I find the Harden situation a bit distasteful, but watching soccer has desensitized to me to it, a bit.

All that said, I wouldn't trade the warchest for Harden.
   662. Paul d mobile Posted: January 13, 2021 at 10:52 AM (#5999460)
I mean, Kawhi clearly didn't want to be in Toronto, but showed up everyday, busted his ass, played through injury, and won the championship.
   663. tshipman Posted: January 13, 2021 at 12:03 PM (#5999475)
I think the Harden situation is about 90% on Fertitta and about 10% on Harden.
   664. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: January 13, 2021 at 12:19 PM (#5999477)
I don't disagree with either tship in 663 or NJ in 660. The Rockets made a lot of mistakes, and part of that was in trying to please Harden. Harden gets some blame for that, but also the way he's acting now is 100% on him. I don't want to moralize here, but it's the stuff NJ talks about that are beyond the pale for me. There's being unhappy, and there's actively sabotaging; Harden's way over that line.
   665. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: January 13, 2021 at 12:22 PM (#5999478)
OTOH, more and more games are getting cancelled. I think the NBA is being a lot more proactive/safe than MLB or the NFL were - the NBA is cancelling games at even the slightest hint of there being a problem while the other sports saw that as a last resort. I'm sure there's some level of contingency plans, but we're off to a bad enough start that isn't worth wondering if they'll end up having to pause the season again and/or reconsider a bubble later on.
   666. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: January 13, 2021 at 12:24 PM (#5999479)
I think the Harden situation is about 90% on Fertitta and about 10% on Harden.

i don't know that i'd put the number that high, but i agree with the sentiment. fertito seems like a insufferable person and a terrible employer.
Harden is completely out of shape and not even attempting to LOOK like he's trying while in the game

this is every criticism of james harden for the last 10 years. it's not new this year; it's just what he does.
the NBA is cancelling games non-sixers games at even the slightest hint of there being a problem while the other sports saw that as a last resort
ftfy
   667. tshipman Posted: January 13, 2021 at 12:42 PM (#5999486)
this is every criticism of james harden for the last 10 years. it's not new this year; it's just what he does.


No, like James Harden looks like I would warming up. He's significantly out of shape these days.
   668. NJ in NJ Posted: January 13, 2021 at 12:50 PM (#5999487)
No, like James Harden looks like I would warming up. He's significantly out of shape these days.

This. As I said above, I've always been a James Harden defender when it came to his physical appearance/fitness (he isn't quite Zion but he is a guy who has a body that is different than the NBA standard and that hurts him in visual assessments). What he's doing now is taking things to an entirely different level.
   669. KronicFatigue Posted: January 13, 2021 at 02:04 PM (#5999505)
Is Harden's poor defense a result of fatigue / conservation of energy? And if so, is that a fitness thing, or that he burns so much energy on offense? Does he fade in the playoffs?

I've never hated a style of play more than his. That alone makes him the villain in my book. His poor GM'ing and off the court shenanigans were the icing on the cake. Him eating those tubs of icing this off season are beyond the pale.

   670. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: January 13, 2021 at 02:25 PM (#5999509)
Shams/Woj saying the Rockets told Harden to stay home. Also both saying the Rockets are weighing final offers for him from PHI/BKN.
   671. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: January 13, 2021 at 02:27 PM (#5999510)
Marc Stein @TheSteinLine ·3m

The Rockets are pursuing a trade package from the 76ers that would be headlined by Ben Simmons and Tyrese Maxey, league sources say

Marc Stein @TheSteinLine ·1m

Houston is increasingly determined to complete a James Harden trade as soon as today, league sources say, and has chased the promising Maxey in addition to Simmons

Philly is known to covet Houston's PJ Tucker in addition to Harden while the Nets have also remained in pursuit
   672. jmurph Posted: January 13, 2021 at 02:35 PM (#5999513)
Wow. I kind of didn't actually think this was going to happen.

EDIT: Also Morey pretending he cares about giving up the guy he just got 21st overall is hilarious, and it will probably work.
   673. tshipman Posted: January 13, 2021 at 02:37 PM (#5999514)
Houston is increasingly determined to complete a James Harden trade as soon as today, league sources say, and has chased the promising Maxey in addition to Simmons

Philly is known to covet Houston's PJ Tucker in addition to Harden while the Nets have also remained in pursuit


This has felt inevitable since November. I actually am not sure that PJ Tucker is a great fit with the Sixers, unless they play him as a backup C.
   674. jmurph Posted: January 13, 2021 at 02:41 PM (#5999516)
Who will put up sleepier second halves in the playoffs: Harden or Embiid? Can't wait to see!

(I'm actually terrified of this happening, I'm laughing to keep from crying.)
   675. jmurph Posted: January 13, 2021 at 02:41 PM (#5999517)
Will the Harden/Embiid Sixers be the first team to shoot 40 free throws in a half?
   676. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 13, 2021 at 02:46 PM (#5999518)
Good lord.
   677. tshipman Posted: January 13, 2021 at 03:09 PM (#5999523)
I think Embiid + Harden is a pretty natural championship pair. It gives you great versatility to attack opposing teams, and they each nicely cover for each others' weaknesses. It's rare to have a team well equipped to defend both Embiid and Harden, and they can naturally shift into very different looks.

A great offensive guard, and a great defensive big are a pretty classic formula for a championship contender.
   678. jmurph Posted: January 13, 2021 at 03:17 PM (#5999527)
I think Embiid + Harden is a pretty natural championship pair.

Agree with the whole post. It's also tremendously easy to build around.
   679. spivey 2 Posted: January 13, 2021 at 03:20 PM (#5999528)
I agree that Embiid + Harden is a potentially scary team if they're both healthy. They did a pretty good job of surrounding them by guys - Harris, Danny Green, and Seth Curry - who can both shoot and won't kill you on the defensive end too. Curry and Harris are at least somewhat capable of making a play off the bounce, too.

The roster makes way, way more sense this way than it did 4 months ago.
   680. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 13, 2021 at 03:25 PM (#5999530)
I sort of want the Rockets to go for the giant bag of picks from Brooklyn, because that means that more teams will need to be involved and I want Rosas to get in the middle of that sort of insanity.
   681. jmurph Posted: January 13, 2021 at 03:38 PM (#5999532)
Ahahahahahahahahaha:
Tommy Dee @ThomasCDee
Update on Kyrie situation.

I’m told he’s been “furious” at the organization for some time for not giving him more input on the head coach hiring.

He was not in favor of Steve Nash.

Also, his relationship with Kevin Durant has been described as “very distant” recently.

(No idea who this is but he apparently works for SNY.)
   682. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 13, 2021 at 04:13 PM (#5999534)
Woj bomb:
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Reporting with @RamonaShelburne: Brooklyn is acquiring Houston’s James Harden in a blockbuster deal, sources tell ESPN.
   683. tshipman Posted: January 13, 2021 at 04:16 PM (#5999535)
They must be shipping out Kyrie then??? Seemed impossible a month ago.

Edit: Shocker! No Kyrie going out:

Brooklyn’s acquiring James Harden in a three-way deal with Cleveland. Caris LeVert, Dante Exum, Rodions Kurucs, four 1st round picks – including Cavs’ 2022 first via Bucks -- and 4 Nets pick swaps to Rockets. Jarrett Allen, Taurean Prince to Cavs.


Somehow a terrible deal for both teams?
   684. PJ Martinez Posted: January 13, 2021 at 04:20 PM (#5999536)
The Indiana Pacers are moving Victor Oladipo to the Rockets for package around Caris LeVert, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium.
   685. tshipman Posted: January 13, 2021 at 04:22 PM (#5999537)
Three quick thoughts:

1. Why would you take this offer over the Simmons/Maxey package?
2. What the hell is Cleveland doing picking up Jarrett Allen?
3. Who is going to play defense on Brooklyn?

Edit:
The Indiana Pacers are moving Victor Oladipo to the Rockets for package around Caris LeVert, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium.


I feel like I am taking crazy pills!
   686. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 13, 2021 at 04:24 PM (#5999538)
I need a flowchart to get my head around all of this.
   687. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 13, 2021 at 04:25 PM (#5999539)
WHAT THE #### IS GOING ON
   688. Paul d mobile Posted: January 13, 2021 at 04:25 PM (#5999540)
You don't take this over Simmons, so that must mean Simmons wasn't actually offered?

Unless you take it so you can get Oladipo, because you still want to compete this year? (Although.... doesn't Simmons do that at least as much as Oladipo?)
   689. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 13, 2021 at 04:28 PM (#5999541)
And what are the Hell are Cleveland doing?
   690. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 13, 2021 at 04:37 PM (#5999546)
I'm guessing the math was Oladipo + the next near-decade of Brooklyn picks > Simmons and chaff, but it'll be interesting to see reports of what Philly was actually putting on the table.
   691. tshipman Posted: January 13, 2021 at 04:41 PM (#5999548)
Allegedly the sticking point for Philly was on including Tyrese Maxey in the deal, which is a mistake on Philly's part IMO.
   692. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: January 13, 2021 at 04:43 PM (#5999549)
What....what the ####?
   693. jmurph Posted: January 13, 2021 at 04:44 PM (#5999550)
Cleveland got Jarrett Allen for a Bucks first rounder, that's a great move. I'm not sure where the complaints are coming from?
   694. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: January 13, 2021 at 04:45 PM (#5999551)
I think the Rockets are coming out of this in really good shape, at first glance.

That's not to say getting Simmons wouldn't have been better.
   695. jmurph Posted: January 13, 2021 at 04:45 PM (#5999552)
I think the Rockets are coming out of this is really good shape, at first glance.

Same. If Simmons wasn't available, this is as good as you're likely gonna get.
   696. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: January 13, 2021 at 04:47 PM (#5999554)
For posterity (shams):

Full current trade:

Rockets: Victor Oladipo, Dante Exum, Rodions Kurucs, 3 BKN first-rounders (22, 24, 26), 1 MIL first (22, unprotected), 4 BKN 1st round swaps (21, 23, 25, 27)

Nets: James Harden

Pacers: Caris LeVert, 2nd-rounder

Cavs: Jarrett Allen, Taurean Prince


All picks and swaps are completely unprotected.
   697. asinwreck Posted: January 13, 2021 at 04:48 PM (#5999555)
I'm going to miss watching Allen, though in terms of follicles, that's a fair trade.

Cleveland is likely going to move a big man after this.
   698. tshipman Posted: January 13, 2021 at 04:50 PM (#5999556)
Cleveland got Jarrett Allen for a Bucks first rounder, that's a great move. I'm not sure where the complaints are coming from?


They already pay two (maybe 3 with Nance) other guys big money whose best position is center. There is no market for Drummond or Kevin Love. Are they going to turn around and trade Allen? He's the best of those three! They should want to keep him!
   699. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: January 13, 2021 at 04:51 PM (#5999557)
Jake Bittle @jake_bittle

The Nets have now acquired all three types of Brooklyn guy; a weirdly skinny guy, a guy with a huge beard, and a guy who’s obsessed with astrology and conspiracy theories.
   700. spivey 2 Posted: January 13, 2021 at 04:52 PM (#5999558)
I like this a lot for Houston.

In the player empowerment era, I can see super teams rising and falling quickly, and these years worth of draft assets can turn pretty juicy pretty quickly. Especially since Brooklyn's guys are mostly all a bit difficult, injury prone/out of shape, or old.

I think a team built around Wall, Oladipo, Wood, and Cousins could actually be pretty fun to watch, even if they're not that good.
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