Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Friday, December 18, 2020

NBA 2020 Season kick-off thread

I estimate it would take 10-12 Primates to beat James Harden in a wing eating contest.

Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: December 18, 2020 at 02:28 PM | 1100 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: best shape of his life, nba, off-topic

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 8 of 11 pages ‹ First  < 6 7 8 9 10 >  Last ›
   701. jmurph Posted: January 13, 2021 at 04:52 PM (#5999559)
They already pay two (maybe 3 with Nance) other guys big money whose best position is center. There is no market for Drummond or Kevin Love. Are they going to turn around and trade Allen? He's the best of those three! They should want to keep him!

They're horrible and Allen is now their... best player, I think? Figure it all out later, that's my stance!
   702. spivey 2 Posted: January 13, 2021 at 04:53 PM (#5999560)
Why did the Nets trade Allen? Did they have to get off his salary to make this work? They really need a guy like him, imo. Though maybe you can find the NBDL or ring-chase vet equivalent?
   703. jmurph Posted: January 13, 2021 at 04:57 PM (#5999562)
It's extremely obvious to me that Kyrie and Harden won't work together. That also has to be up there for the worst defensive backcourt in recent history.
   704. tshipman Posted: January 13, 2021 at 04:58 PM (#5999563)
It's extremely obvious to me that Kyrie and Harden won't work together. That also has to be up there for the worst defensive backcourt in recent history.


Yes, especially since you attack them the same way: with offball movement and screens.

***

To be clear, Houston got a lot better as a result of the trade, I only don't like the trade for them because they could have gotten Simmons instead, and that makes this sort of bad in comparison.
   705. jmurph Posted: January 13, 2021 at 05:00 PM (#5999564)
To be clear, Houston got a lot better as a result of the trade, I only don't like the trade for them because they could have gotten Simmons instead, and that makes this sort of bad in comparison.

I agree, if that was real. It seems really un Morey-like to blow a superstar trade up over a late round pick, so I'm a little skeptical.
   706. I am going to be Frank Posted: January 13, 2021 at 05:01 PM (#5999565)
I may be mistaken but it seems that they traded Allen to get another 1st round pick? This isn't the Nets/Celtics trade since Harden is younger and better than old men Pierce/Garnett. It has tons of potential to blow up and defense is going to be a real problem, but Harden is a MVP candidate. If this doesn't placate Kyrie, then they can build around Harden/Durant.
   707. jmurph Posted: January 13, 2021 at 05:01 PM (#5999567)
I think a team built around Wall, Oladipo, Wood, and Cousins could actually be pretty fun to watch, even if they're not that good.

Totally agree, I'm genuinely looking forward to this.
   708. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 13, 2021 at 05:02 PM (#5999568)
To be clear, Houston got a lot better as a result of the trade, I only don't like the trade for them because they could have gotten Simmons instead, and that makes this sort of bad in comparison.
i have seen no indication that simmons was ever available to HOU.

   709. jmurph Posted: January 13, 2021 at 05:03 PM (#5999570)
If Durant is okay moving Kyrie I'd do it tomorrow. Today. No idea who takes that gamble at this point, though.
   710. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 13, 2021 at 05:04 PM (#5999571)
If Durant is okay moving Kyrie I'd do it tomorrow. Today. No idea who takes that gamble at this point, though.
this works.
   711. aberg Posted: January 13, 2021 at 05:07 PM (#5999572)
The Nets are going to be really weird but probably also very good. It will be interesting to watch because they have such profound strengths and weaknesses.

I'm guessing Houston took Oladipo over Levert because his contract ends sooner and he helps them tank this year? I definitely prefer Levert. I already found Indy fun to watch with everything going through Sabonis and this move should make them better.
   712. rr doesn't talk to pawns Posted: January 13, 2021 at 05:07 PM (#5999573)
They should trade Irving to Washington for Westbrook and reunite the 2013 Thunder.

This deal is interesting to me personally. I have always defended Irving, and Harden (he needs less defending ofc, being the superior player of the two) , and mostly stuck to my "Hey Guys! Count the Superstars!" Mayor of Simpleton style of analysis. So we will see about this.

On the Philly thing: as I said a few weeks ago, I would have given very serious consideration to trading Simmons to get Harden and Embiid on the same roster if I were the 76ers. So we will see about that as well.
   713. I am going to be Frank Posted: January 13, 2021 at 05:07 PM (#5999574)
What about Kyrie for Beal? I know it doesn't make sense but who cares!
   714. asinwreck Posted: January 13, 2021 at 05:09 PM (#5999576)
It's extremely obvious to me that Kyrie and Harden won't work together. That also has to be up there for the worst defensive backcourt in recent history.

When do the Nets next play the Bulls? Because that's the current test of this statement.
   715. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: January 13, 2021 at 05:10 PM (#5999578)
this works.


Why did I even click?
   716. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 13, 2021 at 05:19 PM (#5999579)
Why did I even click?
why are you asking me? i thought everyone here knew not to click on 57i66135' links by now.
   717. tshipman Posted: January 13, 2021 at 05:19 PM (#5999580)
What about Kyrie for Beal? I know it doesn't make sense but who cares!


It's provocative! It gets the people going!

Edit: The crazy thing about trading Kyrie for Harris is that it probably significantly improves the Nets.
   718. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: January 13, 2021 at 05:47 PM (#5999589)
Considering the Stein leaks about PHI were right before BKN closed the deal, I tend to suspect that was the Rockets trying to publicly push the Sixers one last time (and/or to get one last pick or swap from BKN).
   719. JJ1986 Posted: January 13, 2021 at 05:52 PM (#5999590)
I assume the Rockets aren't planning on keeping 'Dipo long-term, so I'm a little surprised they preferred him to LeVert. He's a better player and might have more trade value, but they'll have much less time to trade him.

   720. tshipman Posted: January 13, 2021 at 06:12 PM (#5999597)
Btw, at what point does Stiggles stop proposing Tobias Harris trades?

Harris/Embiid have played 230 minutes together and are +19.4 per 100 possessions. Harris is averaging a crazy efficient 19/8/3 and has the highest plus/minus on the team.
   721. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 13, 2021 at 06:26 PM (#5999601)
Btw, at what point does Stiggles stop proposing Tobias Harris trades?

Harris/Embiid have played 230 minutes together and are +19.4 per 100 possessions. Harris is averaging a crazy efficient 19/8/3 and has the highest plus/minus on the team.
you'll have to pry my trade machine out of my cold, dead hands.
   722. Thok Posted: January 13, 2021 at 06:55 PM (#5999609)
The Nets are now sort of a much older version of the 2011-2012 Thunder, with the emphasis on much older.
   723. asinwreck Posted: January 13, 2021 at 07:58 PM (#5999624)
Washington would listen on Russ and Scott Brooks.
   724. tshipman Posted: January 13, 2021 at 08:00 PM (#5999625)
The Nets are now sort of a much older version of the 2011-2012 Thunder, with the emphasis on much older.


This is a good take. They're all kind of better on offense and worse on defense.
   725. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: January 13, 2021 at 08:40 PM (#5999629)
I'm confused as to why everyone is surprised here? Wasn't "picks from Brooklyn" always a co-frontrunner with "Simmons from Philly"? Nothing else that's going on here matters.
   726. spivey 2 Posted: January 13, 2021 at 08:55 PM (#5999632)
I'm confused as to why everyone is surprised here? Wasn't "picks from Brooklyn" always a co-frontrunner with "Simmons from Philly"? Nothing else that's going on here matters.


It was, but Kyrie going awol so early into the season and the Nets managing to trade their best defender and rim protector have added an extra level of intrigue. Harden being as out of shape as he is adds some spice to the whole situation as well. I'm inclined to think he'll work into shape by the playoffs (assuming there is a playoffs this year), but I don't think that's a guarantee.
   727. RJ in TO Posted: January 13, 2021 at 09:00 PM (#5999633)
Btw, at what point does Stiggles stop proposing Tobias Harris trades?
Two years after Harris retires.
   728. tshipman Posted: January 13, 2021 at 09:03 PM (#5999635)
Jarett Allen matters quite a bit to the Nets.

Jarett Allen net rating: +11.3
DeAndre Jordan net rating: -9.3
   729. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: January 13, 2021 at 11:07 PM (#5999649)
Just my random thoughts about this trade:

1) I think Harden is insurance for Kyrie both because of the latter's flakiness and injury history. The Nets probably couldn't make the Finals with Durant if Kyrie is injured for a round or two in the playoffs. Kyrie is a great talent but he has missed a lot of time in his career. Harden/Durant could make the finals.

2) I agree with tshipman about Allen/Jordan. Deandre is not a good player right now.

3) The Rockets did well here considering the circumstances especially if the Nets don't last as a superteam. Would not shock me at all if all three of those guys are on different teams in 3 years, especially considering the personalities of Harden/Durant/Irving.

4) How do Kyrie/Harden share the ball? Durant has shown he can do so with other great players. Has Harden since he became Houston Harden? Can Kyrie?

5) Not really sure what the Cavs are doing but never am.

6) Maybe the Pacers thought they weren't good enough to win with Oladipo and think he's gone anyway?
   730. spivey 2 Posted: January 14, 2021 at 08:24 AM (#5999671)
Pelton's grades are up.

He gives Brooklyn a D, Houston an A-, Indiana a B+, and Cleveland a C.

I think I agree with all of those, though I may give Brooklyn a C.

For Indiana, I still don't love Levert, he's not an efficient player, and as the league gets more efficient, that's more and more a drag. But he's improved his passing and if there's one team where non-efficient volume scoring would be helpful, it's Indiana. Oladipo has asked out I thought, so wasn't resigning if he had a good year/other offers.
   731. jmurph Posted: January 14, 2021 at 09:12 AM (#5999679)
I kind of like it for everyone, which rarely happens. I think Houston probably overpaid a bit? But this appears to be the bed they made when they took on Durant/Kyrie/DeAndre. But yeah, they're the team that 2-3 years from now might look at this move as a major disaster.

For Houston, I think Levert would have made more sense than Oladipo for their current team, but I think they're smartly not set on Wall/Wood/Cousins being their core going forward. Either way, I think that's a close call, especially given Levert is signed beyond this season.

Cleveland getting Allen for what will almost certainly be a very late 1st is a great move to me. Pelton's C seems to be based on having to pay him soon, which okay, and the fit this year, which meh. Drummond and McGee are just not guys I'm spending any time worrying about.

   732. jmurph Posted: January 14, 2021 at 09:19 AM (#5999683)
There is maybe not a single good defender in Brooklyn's rotation now? Green is okay, I guess, Durant has been one in the past. They're going to have to do some things at the team level, but thankfully they have Nash/D'Antoni, two of the finest defensive minds in the game.

EDIT: DeAndre is still solid, I guess.
   733. spivey 2 Posted: January 14, 2021 at 09:27 AM (#5999685)
Cleveland getting Allen for what will almost certainly be a very late 1st is a great move to me. Pelton's C seems to be based on having to pay him soon, which okay, and the fit this year, which meh. Drummond and McGee are just not guys I'm spending any time worrying about.


I think the grade based on needing to pay him fair market value in a year makes sense, since I imagine he will get RFA offers. They are bad and the fit is awful this year, so I think the "value" you get this year is pretty irrelevant for their franchise.

I'm not sure a late first is worth getting the inside track on Allen. I'm skeptical I'd even want to sign him for the deal he's likely to get. He seems like one of the best rim-running/rim-protecting bigs in the league, but I'm starting to feel like paying any kind of serious money to a big that doesn't have AD-like talent is a waste. Replacement level is just so high, and there's always vets and guys coming out of college with that profile.
   734. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 14, 2021 at 10:07 AM (#5999695)
EDIT: DeAndre is still solid, I guess.

Not really.
   735. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: January 14, 2021 at 10:37 AM (#5999704)
Future Legend Bruce Brown is a positive defender for the Nets. But he's not a defender of bigs so not sure if he can play at the same time as Harden and Kyrie.
   736. jmurph Posted: January 14, 2021 at 10:44 AM (#5999708)
i have seen no indication that simmons was ever available to HOU.

Lowe said on his podcast (with, I think he said, 98% certainty) that if the Rockets wanted Simmons they could have had Simmons.
   737. asinwreck Posted: January 14, 2021 at 10:48 AM (#5999710)
The Jarrett Allen trade is brilliant for Cleveland. Yes he'll be a RFA, but there's no way Cleveland won't match any offer. He's precisely the kind of young talent they wouldn't be able to attract to the CLE as a UFA and he'll be a fixture in the middle for then through his late 20s. None of the other bigs on the roster are going to be there in 2024. Allen and the Sexland backcourt have the chance to be a workable core for several years. Given the franchise context, this trade is an easy A+.
   738. Rally Posted: January 14, 2021 at 11:24 AM (#5999716)
I'm guessing Houston took Oladipo over Levert because his contract ends sooner and he helps them tank this year?


Tanking won’t help them as OKC controls their draft pick. Unless they fall in the top 4. Seems more likely a tanking strategy would give OKC a pick in the 5-12 range.
   739. jmurph Posted: January 14, 2021 at 11:35 AM (#5999718)
Lowe said on his podcast (with, I think he said, 98% certainty) that if the Rockets wanted Simmons they could have had Simmons.

Tim MacMahon also says he was absolutely on the table.

So it does seem pretty likely that Houston preferred this package to getting Simmons+.
   740. tshipman Posted: January 14, 2021 at 12:05 PM (#5999728)
I think it's more about not giving Harden to Morey.
   741. jmurph Posted: January 14, 2021 at 12:16 PM (#5999732)
I think it's more about not giving Harden to Morey.

Could be, but Fertitta also sounds like the kind of guy who very confidently thinks he could do a better job of GMing than his former employee.
   742. tshipman Posted: January 14, 2021 at 01:08 PM (#5999744)
Random thought:
Miami should be looking to pick up PJ Tucker.
   743. DCA Posted: January 14, 2021 at 01:42 PM (#5999749)
737: The Jarrett Allen trade is brilliant for Cleveland. ... Given the franchise context, this trade is an easy A+.

Give how clearly the two side teams in this deal - Cleveland and Indy - came out ahead in the deal, it really baffles me that Houston/Brooklyn couldn't get this done between them and keep all that extra value that leaked out to the Cavs/Pacers between them.

Yes, I suppose Olapido for Levert + a pick was entirely Houston's choice, but what's the logic for letting the Cavs steal so much value out of the main deal?
   744. jmurph Posted: January 14, 2021 at 01:54 PM (#5999752)
There's a decent chance Brooklyn had no interest in including teams like Toronto, Philadelphia, or Boston in the East (and vice versa: they don't want to help Brooklyn land Harden). Houston wanted it done ASAP. Cleveland had the right pick to offer- a late surplus first. I guess I can see how those side things can end up not maximizing value.

I'd think, for instance, that Levert could potentially fetch more in a standalone deal? But Brooklyn had to do it all at once basically.

EDIT: To be clear I mostly agree with you DCA, I'm just thinking through how these things might happen.
   745. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 14, 2021 at 02:23 PM (#5999758)
"he asked nicely, and then he asked not so nicely, and then he just took a crap in the middle of the basketball court"

-- amin elhassan, on james harden
   746. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: January 14, 2021 at 03:03 PM (#5999762)
All these mega trades make the Kawhi-to-Toronto one look weirder. Maybe it made sense at the time, I know Kawhi only had one year on the deal and injury concerns. But there's a big gap between this Harden trade package and the Kawhi trade package. I guess no one then was interested in beating it?

Maybe the Durant Warriors made teams more gun shy.
   747. NJ in NJ Posted: January 14, 2021 at 03:05 PM (#5999765)
[746] People were afraid of the injury, the Spurs had half of the league on their no-trade list and Pop wanted to compete.
   748. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: January 14, 2021 at 03:31 PM (#5999769)
Yeah I think the Warriors being a superteam turned off a lot of suitors. Whereas now the league is jostling for position. Mortgaging your future makes a lot more sense if the upside is emerging as the dominant team compared to if it's being in the best position to take a long shot at the Warriors. So people are willing to spend a lot (in terms of draft capital) to bring their vision into existence, mostly to Sam Presti.
   749. jmurph Posted: January 14, 2021 at 03:40 PM (#5999771)
Someone alluded to this yesterday- spivey, I think?- but man, these teams giving up years and years of draft assets for guys that aren't exactly famous for longterm decision-making is really fascinating.
   750. tshipman Posted: January 14, 2021 at 03:42 PM (#5999772)
Someone alluded to this yesterday- spivey, I think?- but man, these teams giving up years and years of draft assets for guys that aren't exactly famous for longterm decision-making is really fascinating.


Particularly since two out of the three of these guys have injury histories, and they are all older than 30.

The Nets have this year and next to win it all, and that's about it.
   751. jmurph Posted: January 14, 2021 at 03:45 PM (#5999773)
Particularly since two out of the three of these guys have injury histories, and they are all older than 30.

The Nets have this year and next to win it all, and that's about it.

The Clippers are on the clock first! Kawhi can opt out this year.
   752. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 14, 2021 at 03:48 PM (#5999774)
Particularly since two out of the three of these guys have injury histories, and they are all older than 30.

The Nets have this year and next to win it all, and that's about it.
(kyrie is only 28 years old)
   753. Rally Posted: January 14, 2021 at 03:59 PM (#5999777)
I saw Kyrie in a movie 3 years ago and would have sworn he was in his 70s.
   754. tshipman Posted: January 14, 2021 at 04:35 PM (#5999785)
(kyrie is only 28 years old)


I am honestly blown away. It feels like forever ago that he got drafted.
   755. spivey 2 Posted: January 14, 2021 at 04:36 PM (#5999786)
[746] People were afraid of the injury, the Spurs had half of the league on their no-trade list and Pop wanted to compete.


I think it was the first and the third especially. I remember there being reporting that teams were willing to beat the deal, but Spurs wanted proven vets back.

It's also easy to forget, but Kawhi only had a year left and there was some real worry that he wasn't going to be healthy that year, may just sit out to wait for FA, or may not be healthy again. IIRC it was said at the time Toronto refused to include Siakam.

I think there's very little chance the Nets aren't buried in a hole in 5 or 6 years when swaps and draft picks are still flowing (all the way out to 2027). Even if 2 or 3 of these guys re-up, they'll be ancient by then. If they win a ring or go to a few Finals, I guess it's worth it. But it's one of the first times with this sort of deal where you can say, "Ok, those picks are gonna probably be awesome". At least with a deal like the Giannis one or the Westbrook one (in theory), you can say well these stars will still be really good during the lifetime of the picks I'm giving up.
   756. spivey 2 Posted: January 14, 2021 at 04:40 PM (#5999787)
Is LeBron that much of a magician that he was able to keep Kyrie on the straight-and-narrow all those years? Or did Kyrie get crazier as he got older?
   757. jmurph Posted: January 14, 2021 at 04:50 PM (#5999790)
I don't pretend to know or understand anymore about Kyrie than anyone else, but it seems to me he wants the spotlight while being really, really unsuited for it, and it hasn't gone well post shadow of LeBron (by this I mean in his Cavs days he was clearly not the main story).
   758. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: January 14, 2021 at 04:57 PM (#5999794)
I think Kyrie has become more of a loose cannon. He was in the perfect situation as LeBron's sidekick, and wanted to be traded to Boston, now he's a perennial malcontent. Someone asked a few pages ago, who is a good player who you can't imagine rooting for, and Kyrie is definitely on my list.

I was wrong about one thing in my preseason talk: I said Beal/Westbrook was better than the top 2 of other teams in their tier, but it looks like Sabonis/Brogdon is clearly a better duo. I also had doubts about the Pacers' new coach, but early returns look good.
   759. tshipman Posted: January 14, 2021 at 05:05 PM (#5999799)
Is LeBron that much of a magician that he was able to keep Kyrie on the straight-and-narrow all those years? Or did Kyrie get crazier as he got older?


I think the 2016 title was kind of the worst possible thing to happen to Kyrie.
   760. Tin Angel Posted: January 14, 2021 at 05:41 PM (#5999801)
I don't pretend to know or understand anymore about Kyrie than anyone else, but it seems to me he wants the spotlight while being really, really unsuited for it


Completely agree. It feels like he wants to be treated like a superstar but at the same time doesn't want anyone to pay attention to him.
   761. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 14, 2021 at 05:55 PM (#5999804)
Is LeBron that much of a magician that he was able to keep Kyrie on the straight-and-narrow all those years? Or did Kyrie get crazier as he got older?

i think it's unfairly dismissive to just say that kyrie "got crazier". if you put aside the flat earth bullshit (which he has now disavowed...i think), most of his "crazy" basically comes down to thinking that basketball should not be played in a pandemic, and that our collective attention should be directed towards more important societal issues instead.


(allegedly) being an irritative malcontent isn't a huge selling point for him, but it also isn't too far outside the norm among top NBA players.
   762. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 14, 2021 at 07:45 PM (#5999827)
Is he even a malcontent? By which I guess I mean has Kyrie ever had a significant issue with teammates? All I can remember is him chafing at how the media portrayed/asked him about his relationship with LeBron and Jaylen Brown chafing at how Kyrie treated the young players in Boston (but Tatum loved him, and all of the Cs seemed legitimately glad to see him when Brooklyn played the Cs earlier this season.) Most of the friction seems to come from him chafing at the media, wanting to be covered as he saw fit when he saw fit and not otherwise, and answering questions in verbose, condescending ways. My armchair analysis of the guy, which is of course worth exactly as much as the electrons I'm printing it on here, is that he seems to think he's the smartest person in the room pretty much always without interrogating that assumption.

He seems to truck in a mixture of earnest left politics, galaxy brain nonsense, and woo woo new age nonsense, and is pretty condescending about how he should have to interact with the media as an NBA player. None of that is particularly appealing to me (other than the lefty politics), but I'm not sure he's really much of a malcontent, beyond wanting to be allowed to play ball and be left alone otherwise. He's never going to get that, as it's simply not how pro sports work, but I get the desire. He mostly seems like a immature, arrogant young man, which 28 is perhaps getting old to be, but how pro athletes keep a sensible head on their shoulders I have never known, given how crazy their worlds must be.
   763. . . . . . . Posted: January 14, 2021 at 08:03 PM (#5999831)
I think Kyrie is just dumb, like baseball dumb, and it sticks out jarringly in a league filled with really bright guys.
   764. NJ in NJ Posted: January 14, 2021 at 08:21 PM (#5999836)
[762] Perfectly sums up my Kyrie views.
   765. asinwreck Posted: January 14, 2021 at 08:37 PM (#5999839)
The "we need players" comment from a year ago may have annoyed some of his teammates.

It'll be interesting to see his relationship with Ian Eagle going forward, as he grew up a fan of the Nets' announcer, and Eagle has not shied away from being perplexed on the air about Irving's current absence.
   766. rr doesn't talk to pawns Posted: January 14, 2021 at 09:18 PM (#5999844)
basically comes down to thinking that basketball should not be played in a pandemic, and that our collective attention should be directed towards more important societal issues instead.


This may be the case, but LeBron James, Draymond Green, D'Angelo Russell, and many other guys seem to be showing that these things can be, to put a flippant spin on it, multitasked. But I think considering this angle on Irving is a good idea.

Irving may be one of these guys who has the great ability but doesn't love the game itself that much. Hard to say.
   767. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: January 14, 2021 at 09:57 PM (#5999856)
I think Kyrie's heart is in the right place, he's just sort of a dumbass, and that wouldn't be a problem except he wants to be taken seriously. I do give him a lot of credit for his WNBA support* though-- I don't think I could ever root for the guy but that made me look at him more positively.

*he gave $1.5mil to support WNBA players who chose to sit out their bubble season for covid concerns.
   768. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 15, 2021 at 07:47 AM (#5999887)
Nurkic broke his wrist? Too many injuries, I want three eliminated.
   769. asinwreck Posted: January 15, 2021 at 08:21 AM (#5999891)
How much playing time will Kanter get now? Portland's defense will be something.
   770. asinwreck Posted: January 15, 2021 at 09:13 AM (#5999893)
@ShamsCharania
The Washington Wizards are now up to five players who have tested positive for coronavirus, sources tell me and @fredkatz.
8:57 AM · Jan 15, 2021·
   771. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 15, 2021 at 10:50 AM (#5999912)
I also think that these people are under all kinds of bizarre pressure even in the best of circumstances, so expecting them to react to things like us normals is probably unreasonable. Add to that [waves hands around] all this, and I'm inclined to cut the players a break.
   772. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: January 15, 2021 at 01:36 PM (#5999946)
I'm guessing Houston took Oladipo over Levert because his contract ends sooner and he helps them tank this year? I definitely prefer Levert. I already found Indy fun to watch with everything going through Sabonis and this move should make them better.


Houston is in full tank mode, at this point. And Oladipo could easily be flipped for additional picks before the end of this season, or simply allowed to leave as a FA, opening up more cap space.

As for Simmons, it seems pretty clear that Phily was willing to trade Simmons for Harden...but without a whole lot of additional assets included. If Houston had taken a deal like that, it would be because they thought they could quickly rebuild a competitive team with Simmons as a pillar of it. By the time they are again ready to compete for the Finals, Simmons would be gone, or would be getting paid max money.

In the East, a number of teams can plausibly make a run at the Finals (Mil, Bos, Bro, Mia, etc.), but in the West, if the Lakers stay relatively healthy, it is going to be very tough to dethrone them. If you're Houston, this is a good couple of years to start over...
   773. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: January 15, 2021 at 01:50 PM (#5999948)
I also think that these people are under all kinds of bizarre pressure even in the best of circumstances, so expecting them to react to things like us normals is probably unreasonable.


And honestly, us 'normals' haven't put up all that great a track record.
   774. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: January 15, 2021 at 02:00 PM (#5999951)
By the time they are again ready to compete for the Finals, Simmons would be gone, or would be getting paid max money.

Simmons already signed his rookie max extension.

I'm not sure what Houston is doing now, if they're tanking or not. They're paying John Wall a shitton of money for a while longer, which may help or hurt that plan.
   775. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 15, 2021 at 02:15 PM (#5999956)
And honestly, us 'normals' haven't put up all that great a track record.

True that.
   776. tshipman Posted: January 15, 2021 at 02:37 PM (#5999963)
I'm not sure what Houston is doing now, if they're tanking or not. They're paying John Wall a shitton of money for a while longer, which may help or hurt that plan.


Houston's really confusing, because I think they are obscuring their motives.

I think their goal is to make the playoffs, but not pay the tax. They want to pick up talent, but they don't seem to be serious about contention, or about finding stars.

They honestly are operating like Indiana or Utah.
   777. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 15, 2021 at 02:57 PM (#5999966)
Houston's really confusing, because I think they are obscuring their motives.

They have a terrible owner. As a fan of a team with a terrible owner, I see you, Houston fans. I see you.
   778. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: January 15, 2021 at 03:05 PM (#5999968)
Marc Stein @TheSteinLine ·40m

James Harden calls himself "an elite player, an elite teammate and an elite leader" in his first Nets interview

Marc Stein @TheSteinLine ·29m

Asked to describe his conditioning level, Harden says simply: "Great"
   779. tshipman Posted: January 15, 2021 at 03:08 PM (#5999969)
Asked to describe his conditioning level, Harden says simply: "Great"


"Great"
   780. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: January 15, 2021 at 03:08 PM (#5999970)
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn ·12m

The Wizards-Cavaliers games on Sunday and Monday in DC are postponed, league says. With an outbreak of positive COVID tests, Washington won’t have eight players.
   781. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 15, 2021 at 03:14 PM (#5999971)
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn ·12m

The Wizards-Cavaliers games on Sunday and Monday in DC are postponed, league says. With an outbreak of positive COVID tests, Washington won’t have eight players.
i am very disappointed that the league is continuing to stick to this "eight player" nonsense.

some of these lineups would make the process-era sixers look like playoff contenders.
   782. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: January 15, 2021 at 03:16 PM (#5999972)
Steph Curry's net rating this year is -2.9. He had a great shooting night yesterday against the Nuggets but was still -21 with 7 turnovers. The Warriors are 6-6, with 1-point victories over the Raptors and Bulls. He is expending a lot of energy on the offensive end but he looks bad on defense. The Warriors are still in the think of things and I like Wiseman a lot. I don't think Green is very good player right now.
   783. Tin Angel Posted: January 15, 2021 at 04:52 PM (#5999993)
I don't think Green is very good player right now.


I think he is still excellent on defense and a great passer. I kind of don't get why people use +/- to rate players. Of course Curry's rating is low, he is out there with Wiggins and Oubre, who have been terrible. Pretty sure if he was playing on the Lakers it would be much better. Context.
   784. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 15, 2021 at 05:57 PM (#6000001)

Shams Charania @ShamsCharania
The Timberwolves-Grizzlies game tonight has been postponed, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium.
   785. CFBF's Results are Certified Posted: January 15, 2021 at 06:45 PM (#6000007)
   786. asinwreck Posted: January 15, 2021 at 06:56 PM (#6000009)
That poor man. I cannot imagine how he is feeling after all that virus has done to his family. (And his story is merely a more famous example of the suffering so many families have been through this year.)
   787. SteveF Posted: January 15, 2021 at 07:09 PM (#6000012)
Embiid is apparently out the next 2 games with right knee pain. Someone check on 57i66135.
   788. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 15, 2021 at 07:21 PM (#6000014)
Embiid is apparently out the next 2 games with right knee pain. Someone check on 57i66135.
i can't blame anyone for not wanting to go to oklahoma right now.
   789. rr doesn't talk to pawns Posted: January 15, 2021 at 07:53 PM (#6000018)
Rooting for Towns. That's terrible.
   790. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 15, 2021 at 08:05 PM (#6000021)
Woof that's terrible.
   791. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: January 15, 2021 at 08:17 PM (#6000025)
I think he is still excellent on defense and a great passer. I kind of don't get why people use +/- to rate players. Of course Curry's rating is low, he is out there with Wiggins and Oubre, who have been terrible. Pretty sure if he was playing on the Lakers it would be much better. Context.

Net rating isn't a simple plus minus. The Warriors, up to this point have fared about 3 points better per 100 possessions when Curry is off the court versus when he is on the court. Certainly, players on a good team are going to have a better plus minus than players on a bad team, but that shouldn't matter as much when it comes to net rating.

You do make a valid point about Oubre and Wiggins. Those guys have worse net ratings than Curry and he has played about half of his mintues with thse two guys on the floor. Those guys are playing poorly now and most of that is on them and bad luck (shooting slump for Oubre). But a guy who is supposed to be one of the best players in the league should make the players around him better.

(Curry/Wiseman/Oubre have a net rating of -7.6 in 218 minutes, Curry has an overall net rating of -4.5 in 414 minutes.
   792. tshipman Posted: January 15, 2021 at 09:29 PM (#6000036)
But a guy who is supposed to be one of the best players in the league should make the players around him better.


What is Curry supposed to do if he creates space for guys who miss wide open shots?
   793. spivey 2 Posted: January 15, 2021 at 10:14 PM (#6000042)
Watched the second half of this Bucks/Mavs game. First time really sinking my teeth into the Bucks for a while.

Jrue is still a very good defender, and all told, did a pretty good job on Doncic.

I like the lineup variety that the Bucks have this year, and the increased shooting and ability to dribble the team has. They're not as long, but I think the changes are mostly good. I like Portis' energy. I think he ability to get after it, extend possessions and get dirty points will be important in the playoffs.

On the downside, Giannis was 1-10 from the line. That problem doesn't seem to be going away. And I still don't trust a Giannis and Bud offense in playoff crunch time against physical defenses when the whistles get swallowed. Middleton can struggle to play through contact as well at times when the game is allowed to get physical. I think they need to continue to look at ways to get Giannis the ball in good spots off ball, and run more actions where all of the guys involved can shoot. I wouldn't hate seeing some Jrue/Middleton pick and rolls, just to see if it works.
   794. asinwreck Posted: January 15, 2021 at 10:27 PM (#6000046)
Billy Donovan will have some words with his team over their untimely offensive fouls late in this Oklahoma City game.
   795. spivey 2 Posted: January 15, 2021 at 10:28 PM (#6000048)
Curry has been an on-off monster his entire career, well beyond the other guys - including Durant - were putting up. This wasn't just in game, but IIRC their record when Curry sat out was not great. I think trying to draw conclusions of on/off from a 12 game sample is fraught unless you're digging into things like quality shot metrics. what we can see is Curry is putting up huge point totals at high efficiency, all while still probably not shooting as good from 3 as can be expected, and his passing and turnover rates still look normal.

I'm not even really sure why this debate is occurring. Russlan very much seems to have his mind made up.
   796. spivey 2 Posted: January 15, 2021 at 10:49 PM (#6000053)
Anthony Davis has taken a ton of fadeaway jump shots from the mid-post this first quarter. That got me to look at his numbers, and while he's putting up a career high in TS% at .634, he seems to be shooting well above average at pretty much all levels. He's shooting an absurd 71% from 3-10ft, but also shooting around 46% on mid-range and long 2s (10-16 and 16-3p). He's shooting 36% of his shots at the mid-range and long twos which is significantly higher than it's been the previous few years, and his attempts at the rim are way down from the last few years.

Again, early, but that will be interesting to watch and see if it holds up.

He's done a really nice job affecting Zion, though nobody else has, and Zion's looking pretty spry compared to when I watched him earlier this week.
   797. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: January 15, 2021 at 11:35 PM (#6000061)
The Bulls were up to a 99.1% chance to win up 10 with 1:56 left in regulation before they lost to the Thunder in OT

Teams were 1-2,930 when trailing by 10+ points in the final 2 min of regulation over the last 5 seasons. The only other win was by the Kings on January 27, 2020.


Bulls were up by 20+ several times as well, including in the last 5 minutes. Just a total collapse.
   798. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: January 15, 2021 at 11:53 PM (#6000063)
I'm not even really sure why this debate is occurring. Russlan very much seems to have his mind made up.

I just find him extremely interesting. He is the greatest shooter of all time. He was the best the player on a team that averaged 70 wins over two years and was the first unanamious MVP. He's not super-fast, super-strong, or have some freakish combination of size/skills like KD. He's not a dominant defensive player. He looks frail to me when he is playing. To me, his three finals without KD are good but not dominant (he never won a Finals MVP and I don't think he was ever the best player in Finals, although some might argue otherwise).

I think he had a perfect complement of talent for his skillset. I am not sure his presence in his prime guaranteed a playoff spot just because of his style of play and flaws (defense/size), whereas I think guys LeBron/Kawhi/Durant/Giannis/(maybe even Chris Paul) essentially ,during their primes, would. I also think that the way he plays allows him to make a good team a great in a way guys like Paul and Harden might not.

If it seems like I am nit-picking it is because anytime you are trying to figure out where a guy ranks amongst the greatest players of his generation, you are already asserting he's great. I am just trying to figure what level he is at.

I have tried to have this conversation about this guy here because you guys give me a different perspective and bring up points that I don't think of.
   799. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: January 16, 2021 at 12:09 AM (#6000065)
In the East, a number of teams can plausibly make a run at the Finals (Mil, Bos, Bro, Mia, etc.), but in the West, if the Lakers stay relatively healthy, it is going to be very tough to dethrone them. If you're Houston, this is a good couple of years to start over...


This feels like bait, but I couldn't let it pass. The Lakers don't seem like a particularly intimidating team to me. They are substantially weaker from 3rd best player on down than the typical championship team, and one of their two best players is 36 years old. Their SRS was +6.28 last year, and their championship was obtained under atypical conditions (I am not saying there's an asterisk, but from the standpoint of how dominant they will be going forward it doesn't have as much predictive value as usual).

I think the NBA right now is quite wide open by historical standards. Before last year, 8 of the previous 9 seasons had a prohibitive favorite -- the Warriors dynasty or the Heatles (and the 9th one of those was the year the Warriors ended up establishing their dynasty). Last year was wide open, this year is wide open. Someone has to be the favorite and I'm fine calling it the Lakers, but this is an attractive time to make a move IMO regardless of which conference you're in.
   800. rr doesn't talk to pawns Posted: January 16, 2021 at 12:24 AM (#6000067)
FLIP
Page 8 of 11 pages ‹ First  < 6 7 8 9 10 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama
for his generous support.

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogNo new Hall electees for first time since 1960
(118 - 3:45am, Jan 27)
Last: Alex meets the threshold for granular review

NewsblogOT - Soccer Thread - Winter Is Here
(719 - 3:19am, Jan 27)
Last: AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale

NewsblogSources: MLBPA rejects universal DH, expanded playoffs
(57 - 3:02am, Jan 27)
Last: DJS Thinks Apples and Oranges are Similar

NewsblogPhiladelphia Phillies keep J.T. Realmuto with 5-year, $115 million deal, sources say
(12 - 1:40am, Jan 27)
Last: SoSH U at work

NewsblogInfielder Freddy Galvis and Baltimore Orioles agree to 1-year contract
(4 - 1:39am, Jan 27)
Last: Dog on the sidewalk has an ugly bracelet

NewsblogSS Andrelton Simmons, Minnesota Twins agree to 1-year, $10.5M contract, sources say
(7 - 12:51am, Jan 27)
Last: baxter

NewsblogNBA 2020 Season kick-off thread
(1100 - 11:37pm, Jan 26)
Last: Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging

NewsblogMarcus Semien, Toronto Blue Jays reach agreement on 1-year, $18M deal, source says
(7 - 10:42pm, Jan 26)
Last: Tin Angel

Newsblog2021 BBHOF Tracker Summary and Leaderboard – Baseball Hall of Fame Vote Tracker
(634 - 10:26pm, Jan 26)
Last: Joyful Calculus Instructor

Hall of Merit2022 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
(87 - 9:32pm, Jan 26)
Last: Chris Cobb

NewsblogFormer Tides Manager Ron Johnson dies after battle with COVID-19
(6 - 7:33pm, Jan 26)
Last: Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert

NewsblogEmpty Stadium Sports Will Be Really Weird
(11906 - 7:33pm, Jan 26)
Last: puck

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 1-26-2021
(4 - 6:19pm, Jan 26)
Last: Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc

Sox TherapyThe Roster - As It Stands
(7 - 6:11pm, Jan 26)
Last: villageidiom

NewsblogNationals, Brad Hand agree to one-year, $10.5 million deal, per reports
(13 - 5:14pm, Jan 26)
Last: The Duke

Page rendered in 0.6514 seconds
48 querie(s) executed