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Friday, December 18, 2020

NBA 2020 Season kick-off thread

I estimate it would take 10-12 Primates to beat James Harden in a wing eating contest.

Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: December 18, 2020 at 02:28 PM | 1772 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: best shape of his life, nba, off-topic

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   801. rr doesn't talk to pawns Posted: January 16, 2021 at 02:42 AM (#6000074)
I don't disagree with the basic argument of 799, but a few caveats:

1. Going into tonight, the Lakers were 1st in DRTG, 5th in ORTG, 2nd in point differential, and 1st in SRS (9.23). So to this point, Gasol, Harrell and Schroder do in fact appear to have made the team better, as a lot of people thought would be the case. I was skeptical; so far, I have been wrong.
2. Saying "one of their two best players is 36 years old" is ofc true, but that guy is LeBron James, and the other guy is Anthony Davis, who is in his prime at 27. James and Davis are on par with any two-man combo I have personally seen, with the other best ones being Jordan/Pippen and O'Neal/Bryant. Magic/Kareem was killer too, although they did not timeline all that well.
3. The Lakers won three titles in a row two decades ago with this type of team, and the guys other than O'Neal and Bryant were not especially impressive. Both O'Neal and Bryant were in their 20s then, which is a big deal, but James at this point is sui generis, I think is the fairly clear GOAT, and seems determined to play as long as he can.

Milwaukee, Boston and the Clippers appear to be hitting their stride and as I have said a few times, I think any of those teams would have given the Lakers a rougher time than Denver and Miami did. But none of those teams has made the Finals, so I think making the Lakers slight favorites makes sense.

As to the "wide open" argument, yes and no. Going into last year, pretty much everybody thought one of the Bucks, Lakers or Clippers would win the title, and that is what happened, albeit it with Milwaukee and the Clippers biffing in postseason before they played the Lakers. I may be underrating Philadelphia, Brooklyn, Boston, and Denver, but I would put money on those three vs. the field.
   802. . . . . . . Posted: January 16, 2021 at 07:58 AM (#6000075)
The Curry conversation is a bit silly - certainly at his age with his injury history he’s unlikely to be quite what he once was. So not sure what his ability to drag a team to the playoffs this season says about that.

But isn’t doesn’t an insight of Russian’s toasty take - that he is an EPIC co-primary or secondary player - suggest that the Warriors should be trading him ASAP? Doesn’t he make almost every good team vastly better, with an easier and more-likely-to-work fit than almost any other player (other than LeBron, praised be his name).
   803. asinwreck Posted: January 16, 2021 at 09:07 AM (#6000081)
If Brooklyn had the ability to flip Harden for Curry, I bet they'd do it in an instant.
   804. PJ Martinez Posted: January 16, 2021 at 10:37 AM (#6000092)
To the question of whether Steph Curry's net rating for the season is a meaningful point of debate 11 or 12 games in, I just saw that Boston's net rating leaders for the season so far are Jeff Teague (+14.8), Semi Ojeleye (+14.6), Payton Pritchard (+13), and Rob Williams (+12.8). Granted, Ojeleye's shown some improvement, Pritchard's been a pleasant surprise, and Williams is a talented player with some things to work on, but these just aren't Boston's best players, either to this point in the season or in general. I don't think that number over such a small stretch means very much.
   805. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: January 16, 2021 at 12:42 PM (#6000108)
I am going to leave the Curry discussion alone. It's just something I am interested in but I don't have to talk about it here to think about it more.

Some random thoughts:

1) One of the things that I was pretty confident this year was that LBJ wasn't going to be real contender for MVP considering the short layoff and his age. I thought AD would have the better MVP shot certainly. That's not true so far and surprising to me. The Lakers are also doing pretty well with LeBron off the court, +4.7. I think that's the best a LBJ team has done without him on the court.

2) PG13 and Kawhi have been shooting the lights out from 3, up to nearly 49%. PG13 has been especially on fire. He's flashing MVP form and if he's playing that well, the Clips can beat anyone.

3) Luka's not really shooting well from 3, at 26%. He obviously needs to be better there to make the leap into the conversation of best player in league.

4) Jokic would be my MVP vote although I am concerned that Murray hasn't sustained the gains he made in the bubble.
   806. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 16, 2021 at 12:48 PM (#6000109)
3) Luka's not really shooting well from 3, at 26%. He obviously needs to be better there to make the leap into the conversation of best player in league.
ben simmons is looking down on him from 33%.
   807. tshipman Posted: January 16, 2021 at 01:37 PM (#6000114)
2) PG13 and Kawhi have been shooting the lights out from 3, up to nearly 49%. PG13 has been especially on fire. He's flashing MVP form and if he's playing that well, the Clips can beat anyone.


I actually kind of think this is a negative for the Clippers, not a positive.

The team is hugely overperforming at the 3p line. They are not going to shoot 44% for the season. Despite this overperformance, their net rating is relatively pedestrian at +4.6. If they end the season at 38% (which was best in the league last year), you'd expect them to score about 5 points fewer than they do right now.

They're the best team on offense, and it's basically *all* built on unsustainable shooting.
   808. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: January 17, 2021 at 11:08 AM (#6000176)
So...Harden was wearing a fat suit in Houston?
   809. PJ Martinez Posted: January 17, 2021 at 12:39 PM (#6000183)
Apparently Kemba Walker is available for today's 1 pm Celtics-Knicks game.
   810. asinwreck Posted: January 17, 2021 at 03:19 PM (#6000195)
The Knicks are destroying Boston, possibly as a birthday gift to Tom Thibodeau.
   811. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: January 17, 2021 at 04:14 PM (#6000202)
Luka has 30/7/5 at the half but mavs losing by 15 to the bulls. Luka has done everything he can to keep this game close.
   812. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 17, 2021 at 05:44 PM (#6000213)
Kyle Neubeck @KyleNeubeck
Tonight's Sixers game has been postponed.

Derek Bodner @DerekBodnerNBA
The 5:30 pm injury report only had 4 players on the Sixers listed as out: Seth Curry and Vincent Poirier because of health and safety, and Mike Scott and Joel Embiid with right knee injuries. No word yet on who/what has changed (outside of contact tracing protocols).

Kyle Neubeck @KyleNeubeck
As of the 5 p.m. deadline to submit an injury report for 5:30 NBA release, the only four Sixers players listed on their injury report were expected absences for this weekend (Embiid, Curry, Scott, Poirier). This seems to be a fast-developing situation.
   813. asinwreck Posted: January 17, 2021 at 07:11 PM (#6000216)
@wojespn
The Sixers postponement is due to contact tracing connected with the game against the Grizzlies on Saturday night, sources tell ESPN.

@wojespn
Memphis C Jonas Valanciunas has entered the league's health and safety protocol, team says.
   814. NJ in NJ Posted: January 17, 2021 at 08:01 PM (#6000224)
Title Picture

Too lazy to go back to see who said this, but I disagree on the race being wide open. Right now, I think the Lakers are the best team by a lot. Their statistical profile is much stronger than it was last year (10.2 SRS) and...they're not even trying. I've watched every Laker game and they have spurts of 4-6 minutes where they turn it on, but it's fairly evident that the guys are not giving their all. Not only that, but LBJ and Davis are playing Bud level minutes. I was not impressed by their offseason moves, but the offense is so much more fluid now and the defense remains strong (but different). As a LeBron fan, I'm happy that I've been wrong about this team just about every step of the way since summer '19.

I think the Nets moves PROBABLY make them the second best team in the East and I believe the East is lining up nicely for the Bucks. I'm really interested to see some of the matchups in Nets-Bucks tomorrow night.

Knicks

Curious what the Celtics thought of the Knicks youngsters (Robinson, Knox, Barrett, Quickley)? My current thoughts:

Mitchell Robinson - Don't know whether it's natural growth or Thibs, but he has really cut down on the fouls and is showing tremendous growth as a defender. He's improved his footwork guarding in space and maintained sensational timing on jumpshot blocks. In the paint he's being a lot less aggressive (good thing) and relying more on the fact that he's really tall and really long to give the other team problems at the rim. His offense hasn't changed much even though I would love it if he was allowed to flash the 3 pointer he loves posting to Instagram.

Kevin Knox - Gone from arguably the worst player in all of basketball to a decent bench guy. This is huge. The Knicks had high hopes for him as a shooter when they drafted him and he's finally showing signs. His first 2 years 22% of his 3 point attempts were from the corner and he hit 33%. This year those numbers are 46% and 61%, respectively. I give all the credit to Thibs/the coaching staff on (a) the development and (b) the gameplan. As an aside, Thibs and crew clearly recognize the value of spacing but for some reason...

RJ Barrett - ...love to run RJ out in the most shooting depleted lineups since the pre '15 stone ages. RJ is still well to slighlty below average as a shooter, ballhandler, and athlete, but there are signs. His FT% is significantly up. He's showing signs of being a plus defender. He chips in on the boards. By the eye test, he LOOKS much better but he has to contest with the fact that most of the time he's on the court he's lining up next to Elfrid Payton, Mitchell Robinson, Julius Randle and Reggie Bullock. Bullock is the only one of those guys who defenses even pretend to respect from distance so it's really tough to be a positive contributor as a non-shooting, wiggle-less scorer with ok athleticism and one hand.

Immanuel Quickley - Setting aside the skyhook, his floater has to be the dominant signature offensive weapon in the league's history, right?
   815. tshipman Posted: January 18, 2021 at 12:30 AM (#6000249)
Curious what the Celtics thought of the Knicks youngsters (Robinson, Knox, Barrett, Quickley)?


How has Julius Randle not spun his way into your heart yet?
   816. NJ in NJ Posted: January 18, 2021 at 07:39 AM (#6000253)
[815] His game is just so ugly. I can’t get over the aesthetics. In addition, while he’s been shockingly effective, I also just have this sense that he’s a guy who’d rather be the man on a crappy team than be a contributor on a good one so I tend not to think about him when dreaming of a future good Knicks team.
   817. NJ in NJ Posted: January 18, 2021 at 12:49 PM (#6000280)
Quickley has 9 points in his first 5 minutes in the game, including 2 more floaters.
   818. asinwreck Posted: January 18, 2021 at 01:22 PM (#6000286)
Yikes.
Cavaliers guard Kevin Porter Jr. is expected to be traded or released following an outburst Friday in the Cavs locker room, The Athletic has learned from several sources with direct knowledge of the events.

Porter, 20, who has not played this season due to personal issues, grew angry when he entered the locker room and realized the team gave his old locker to Taurean Prince, who was acquired in a blockbuster trade Wednesday.

Sources said Porter, whose locker was moved to the wall where the younger, end-of-bench players reside, began yelling and at one point threw food.
   819. asinwreck Posted: January 18, 2021 at 01:36 PM (#6000288)
Today's Pistons-Heat game is delayed from 3pm to 8pm to see if there are enough players testing negative to proceed without postponing.
   820. JJ1986 Posted: January 18, 2021 at 02:00 PM (#6000291)
at one point threw food.
Was it soup?
   821. tshipman Posted: January 18, 2021 at 02:42 PM (#6000303)
We need a 30 for 30 on the Cavs' catering department.
   822. tshipman Posted: January 18, 2021 at 03:11 PM (#6000308)
   823. RJ in TO Posted: January 18, 2021 at 03:31 PM (#6000312)
I'm not going to say Kevin Porter Jr. handled that well, but it does seem like the team should have let him know what they were going to do beforehand.
   824. asinwreck Posted: January 18, 2021 at 03:50 PM (#6000315)
I am concerned for his well-being.
   825. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: January 18, 2021 at 04:02 PM (#6000318)
You're not alone:
In August of 2020, he was accused of punching a woman in the face. In November of 2020, he was arrested following a one-car crash and had a loaded handgun in the vehicle. Despite the pair of off-court incidents over the offseason, Porter came back to the Cavs' facility on Dec. 7, going through individual workouts with Bickerstaff with assistant coaches Sam Jones and Josh Estes. Porter even participated in a full-team practice on Dec. 10.
[SNIP]
At this point, the team source is hopeful that Porter can turn things around in his life and continue to progress as a man: "I'm worried about him outside of basketball at this point."
   826. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 18, 2021 at 04:26 PM (#6000324)
Who says no?

zhaire smith and mikal bridges.
   827. spivey 2 Posted: January 18, 2021 at 05:05 PM (#6000334)
Mikal Bridges and DiVincenzo are off to really good years this year. Man, that Villanova team was stacked. That trade was a PR disaster for Philly, and it's shaping up to be a pretty big on-court disaster for them as well.
   828. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 18, 2021 at 07:47 PM (#6000352)
Mikal Bridges and DiVincenzo are off to really good years this year. Man, that Villanova team was stacked. That trade was a PR disaster for Philly, and it's shaping up to be a pretty big on-court disaster for them as well.

the most shocking thing about those teams is that arcidiacono is now a 4 year NBA veteran. (it's only the bulls...but still...)
   829. spivey 2 Posted: January 18, 2021 at 08:01 PM (#6000353)
This Milwaukee/Brooklyn game is awesome so far. Both teams came to play this first quarter. Except Harden.
   830. spivey 2 Posted: January 18, 2021 at 08:09 PM (#6000355)
Jrue Holiday seems to be a pretty good cutter without the ball, which is a great skill to have as a PG on Milwaukee.
   831. asinwreck Posted: January 18, 2021 at 08:26 PM (#6000357)
I have the feeling this is Marv Albert's final season behind the microphone.
   832. phredbird Posted: January 18, 2021 at 08:34 PM (#6000361)

is it just me or is the net's floor colored in such a weird way that i feel like i'm watching the game in black and white and the players and unis are in color?

i like a black and white color scheme for a team, but this is extreme.
   833. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 18, 2021 at 08:37 PM (#6000362)
is it just me or is the net's floor colored in such a weird way that i feel like i'm watching the game in black and white and the players and unis are in color?

i like a black and white color scheme for a team, but this is extreme.

no, you're not alone. i'm not even watching it, and i know exactly what you're talking about.
   834. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 18, 2021 at 08:47 PM (#6000364)
so i just saw this "trending" on tweeter:
President Trump has signed an executive order to establish a National Garden of American Heroes, which will honor the likes of Kobe Bryant, Christopher Columbus, Albert Einstein and dozens more


i'm guessing twitter ran out of room to mention jerry sandusky, oj simpson and greg little due to character limits.
   835. asinwreck Posted: January 18, 2021 at 09:02 PM (#6000369)
Harden, Durant, and Green working together in the third quarter like they have several years experience playing together or something.
   836. phredbird Posted: January 18, 2021 at 09:46 PM (#6000379)

ya, the nets looking like beasts. milwaukee is a darn good team, keeping it close, but harden/durant are just rolling.

   837. phredbird Posted: January 18, 2021 at 09:55 PM (#6000381)

as a former designer (i'm semi-retired now, in a second career as a painter), i appreciate what brooklyn is doing though. it's like anti-design design.

'let's just go black and white, plain black and white. 'Brooklyn Nets' in Helvetica on the ends of the court under the basket. In the middle of the court, just stick this line drawing of a basketball in the middle, with a plain san-serif 'B' ...

so cool/not cool.
   838. phredbird Posted: January 18, 2021 at 09:57 PM (#6000382)

... and while i'm not looking, milwaukee climbs back into the game. this is quite a contest.
   839. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 18, 2021 at 09:57 PM (#6000383)
as a former designer (i'm semi-retired now, in a second career as a painter), i appreciate what brooklyn is doing though. it's like anti-design design.

'let's just go black and white, plain black and white. 'Brooklyn Nets' in Helvetica on the ends of the court under the basket. In the middle of the court, just stick this line drawing of a basketball in the middle, with a plain san-serif 'B' ...

so cool/not cool.
counterpoint:

watching a sporting event on TV should not evoke schindler's list.
   840. asinwreck Posted: January 18, 2021 at 10:02 PM (#6000385)
That's the kind of national TV game the NBA wants. Great game, great fourth quarter.
   841. phredbird Posted: January 18, 2021 at 10:09 PM (#6000389)

watching a sporting event on TV should not evoke schindler's list.


nah. it's a kind of urban/gritty scheme. the court color is the grey of the urban concrete playground. but it is jarring after every court being simply varnished wood since forever.

... to your point, Helvetica was designed by a Swiss guy who derived it from akzidenz grotesk which of course has strong german connections. but they were the good germans!

   842. tshipman Posted: January 18, 2021 at 10:19 PM (#6000391)
Difficult to evaluate Brooklyn in that game. They kicked the ball around the gym, with 17 turnovers, but shot 48% on 3. They also got some good fortune to have Milwaukee shoot 30%. Milwaukee probably turns the ball over a bit more than 5 times in a typical game.

Brooklyn has a ton of questions on defense for me. In particular, they looked weak on the glass in this game. They were 25th in the league in DRB% going into this game, and have serious issues whenever DAJ is not on the court.
   843. phredbird Posted: January 18, 2021 at 10:20 PM (#6000392)

huh, now we get lakers/warriors?

cool. i didn't even know that was coming.

as most of you can figure out, i'm not a super close follower of basketball.

and i am going to leave the game long enough to watch jeopardy.

ken jennings is doing a very good job taking over for the late lamented alex trebek. he handles the game rhythm just fine, no flubs etc., but he does not project, his voice is a little thin, which is a drawback. i hope the producers address that, i'm rooting for him because he so obviously loves the game.

   844. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 18, 2021 at 11:02 PM (#6000394)
nah. it's a kind of urban/gritty scheme. the court color is the grey of the urban concrete playground. but it is jarring after every court being simply varnished wood since forever.

Here I thought they were going for a Pleasantville sort of thing.
   845. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: January 18, 2021 at 11:08 PM (#6000395)
The Lakers are more than willing to let Oubre and Draymond shoot wide open threes.
   846. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: January 18, 2021 at 11:21 PM (#6000397)
Draymond a cool -28 in 17 minutes. Wiggins with no rebounds, blocks, steals, or assists in 15 minutes.

What is Andrew Wiggins best case scenario at this point? He's obviously got a lot of physical gifts has had very little success to this point. Can he be the 3rd or 4th best player on a good team? A 3 and D guy later in his career if he improves his shooting?
   847. rr doesn't talk to pawns Posted: January 18, 2021 at 11:23 PM (#6000398)
Milwaukee/Brooklyn was a very fun game to watch.
   848. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: January 18, 2021 at 11:29 PM (#6000399)
Jeremi Grant has been playing really well for the Pistons BTW. His net rating is +14.4, scoring 25 ppg, and shooting 45/40/85. I was impressed with him last year in the playoffs but wasn't sure he could handle being one of the primary options.
   849. smileyy Posted: January 18, 2021 at 11:41 PM (#6000404)
The Lakers (as discussed) seem kind of good. I realize it's the Warriors, and also the Warriors haven't been terrible lately. Montrezl Harrell seems like a good pickup for them.

How soon is too soon to worry about the Mavs?
   850. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: January 19, 2021 at 12:36 AM (#6000418)
Wow, the Lakers are giving the game to the Warriors here.
   851. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: January 19, 2021 at 12:48 AM (#6000420)
The Warriors are now 3-0 on games decided on the last shot. Brutal, brutal loss by the Lakers.The Warriors really had no reason to win this game. The Lakers really just played sloppily down the road. Oubre actually really well. The Lakers probably could have blown them out with some more focus.
   852. sardonic Posted: January 19, 2021 at 12:51 AM (#6000421)
The Warriors have stabilized, and with Looney in there instead of Wiseman are surprisingly competent. Wiseman is showing flashes and they gotta develop him, but he sticks out like a sore thumb right now when it comes to playing winning basketball. -19 in 13 min with 5 fouls and 5 turnovers.
   853. phredbird Posted: January 19, 2021 at 12:51 AM (#6000422)

man. warriors came out of nowhere with this one.

killer robot with a bit of breakdown at the end. age related?
   854. smileyy Posted: January 19, 2021 at 12:52 AM (#6000424)
Wow
   855. spivey 2 Posted: January 19, 2021 at 08:29 AM (#6000456)
Title Picture

Too lazy to go back to see who said this, but I disagree on the race being wide open. Right now, I think the Lakers are the best team by a lot. Their statistical profile is much stronger than it was last year (10.2 SRS) and...they're not even trying. I've watched every Laker game and they have spurts of 4-6 minutes where they turn it on, but it's fairly evident that the guys are not giving their all. Not only that, but LBJ and Davis are playing Bud level minutes. I was not impressed by their offseason moves, but the offense is so much more fluid now and the defense remains strong (but different). As a LeBron fan, I'm happy that I've been wrong about this team just about every step of the way since summer '19.


I was thinking about this. I think they are the favorite, and agree they have very good MOV while not being 100% dialed during the season. But all of that looks great when you're making shots and your opponents are missing shots. They're shooting 39% from 3 (5th in the league), and if you look at their roster it's not a good 3 point shooting team imo - most of the guys are shooting above their career marks. AD is also shooting much better away from the rim but inside the arc than he has at any point in his career. I still think there's some potential reckoning of their role players not being good shooters, by and large. Their opponents are also only shooting .338 from 3, which is 4th best. Regress those numbers as heavily as you need to, and I think it looks a lot different.

Milwaukee and the Clippers are also shooting very well from 3 this year, though Milwaukee had some regression last night.
   856. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 19, 2021 at 08:32 AM (#6000457)
What is Andrew Wiggins best case scenario at this point?


Millions of dollars..

Seriously though, his problem is and has always been he doesn't seem to care. Like at all. For a few games each season he will get up and do some stuff and the rest of the time he floats. Seems like an OK dude, and emotionally fairly well balanced, but lacking in motivation.

DRuss is no great shakes, but watching Wiggins every night was miserable.
   857. spivey 2 Posted: January 19, 2021 at 08:39 AM (#6000459)
Milwaukee/Brooklyn - I was only able to watch the first half, but it looked like a great game all the way through. A lot of it does come down to make-or-miss, and Brooklyn's role guys, including Jeff Green who is no better a shooter than Eric Bledsoe, made a bunch of 3s.

Brooklyn will be a tough team in the playoffs because of their raw scoring power. Milwaukee I thought was defending them reasonably well in the first half - there were several possessions in the second when Durant was trying to crossover his guy and rise up for a shot that there was a good help contest from a weakside defender on the jumpshot. That's good attention to detail, as Durant can get a bit of tunnel vision on shooting in those situations.

Milwaukee is a bit undersized on these matchups, though, which could be difficult in the playoffs. Middleton on Durant, Holiday on Harden, and DiVincenzo on Kyrie is likely what I'd expect to start the game and crunch time.

Looks like Giannis picked up his game in the second half, but in the first he was struggling with Jordan a bit, and Milwaukee was playing some of their best basketball without him on the floor. If Brooklyn does play Jordan on Giannis, I could see him being in and out of foul trouble throughout the playoffs, and I think it's something Giannis would be able to figure out. They'll probably hope to have another vet big by the time the playoffs rolls around, though. I generally would trust Giannis to make adjustments and be outstanding in a playoff series against Brooklyn. They just don't have the physical, active help defense that tends to really give him problems in a playoff setting.
   858. jmurph Posted: January 19, 2021 at 08:59 AM (#6000465)
I LOVE the Brooklyn grayscale thing and anyone who doesn't is a monster.

I went to bed at halftime and am stunned to see the Warriors won that game. It looked like an A-B intrasquad game at times in the first half.

Curious what the Celtics thought of the Knicks youngsters (Robinson, Knox, Barrett, Quickley)?

I thought Robinson looked really good! Much better than past games I've watched. I also liked what I saw of Toppin.
   859. spivey 2 Posted: January 19, 2021 at 09:13 AM (#6000471)
Has anyone watched the Spurs? I expected them to be depressingly mediocre like they've been the last couple of years, but it seems like their young guys are playing pretty well, and they're doing it without Derek White too.

They have a TON of money coming off the books: DeRozan (27.7), Aldridge (24), Gay (14), Mills (13.3), Lyles (5.5). Gay and Mills would be nice guys to bring back in limited roles, but they should have room for a max guy and another decent deal.

My brunch guy told me that Kawhi has been thinking about coming back.
   860. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 19, 2021 at 09:30 AM (#6000475)
What is Andrew Wiggins best case scenario at this point? He's obviously got a lot of physical gifts has had very little success to this point. Can he be the 3rd or 4th best player on a good team? A 3 and D guy later in his career if he improves his shooting?

You're looking at him. He'd have to learn how to play defense to be an x&D guy.
   861. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 19, 2021 at 09:32 AM (#6000476)
I also harbour no illusions about Russell, but he's at least, in theory, possibly, good at some of the things that complement Towns. Wiggins ... wasn't.
   862. sardonic Posted: January 19, 2021 at 09:34 AM (#6000477)
Yeah, I mean Wiggins played okay last night. 18 points on 11 shots, hit a couple big 3s and showing solid on ball defense. He's been blocking more shots as a Warrior and has shown that he can not screw up a defense if it is otherwise good. That's roughly the 4th banana on a title team, like a more famous Harrison Barnes.
   863. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 19, 2021 at 09:58 AM (#6000490)
I LOVE the Brooklyn grayscale thing and anyone who doesn't is a monster.
it looks like it was designed by someone who woke up every morning and thought: "we should just bulldoze through that majority-minority community to build our 3-lane highway, and then i'll be able to get to the catskills 10 minutes quicker"
   864. asinwreck Posted: January 19, 2021 at 10:03 AM (#6000492)
I mean, the BQE isn't far from Barclays Center. Maybe the Nets will issue a Robert Moses-inspired City Edition uniform next season.
   865. KronicFatigue Posted: January 19, 2021 at 10:42 AM (#6000500)
What's the best NBA podcast out there? I'd want it to mirror this thread: a little of everything. I don't need game recaps or interviews, but would rather have in-depth discussions on various topics. Roster building, advanced stats explanation, etc. Something that I could spend 1-3 hours a week passively listening to and get a better understanding of the modern NBA game.

Thanks!
   866. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 19, 2021 at 10:47 AM (#6000502)
No idea if they are the best ...

I listen to Dunc'd on (the free version), Hollinger & Duncan NBA, Real GM Radio, and Thinking Basketball. There is a fair amount of overlap between the first three.
   867. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 19, 2021 at 10:51 AM (#6000504)
I listen to Dunc'd On, and Danny Leroux' Real GM Radio, and they're both pretty good, although Nate Duncan has a very strong "PROCESS OR RINGZZZZ" bias. But they're both good. I like the Hollinger and Duncan one, but they're pretty duplicative of Dunc'd On, and I prefer Danny to Hollinger. Obvs I love Zach Lowe. Because I hate myself, I listen to several Wolves podcasts, which are too depressing to recommend to anyone except a total masochist.
   868. jmurph Posted: January 19, 2021 at 10:57 AM (#6000506)
I try the many Athletic ones on occasion, but they're way heavy on schtick that isn't actually funny, so my tolerance for them goes up and down. If you can catch Partnow, he's solid. There's one with David Aldridge that I usually like.

ESPN has a few that can be good, in addition to Lowe, but it depends on the guest. It seems like most of their pods these days are heavy on the reporters, less so on the analysis, but anytime you can catch Pelton he's a good guest.

Otherwise the ones already mentioned can all be pretty decent.
   869. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 19, 2021 at 10:58 AM (#6000507)
I think the Athletic's "Raptors Reasonabilists" is good, but it's heavy on schtick, so that could just be my Stockholm syndrome talking.
   870. NJ in NJ Posted: January 19, 2021 at 11:20 AM (#6000512)
The Athletic NBA Show on Fridays has Nerder She Wrote, I think you'd enjoy that.
   871. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 19, 2021 at 11:27 AM (#6000513)
If the Wolves ever get good (don't laugh) I will want some recommendations for Wolves podcasts. I am not enough of a masochist enough to listen now in addition to the generic MN sports podcasts I consume.
   872. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: January 19, 2021 at 11:41 AM (#6000517)
i listen to the lowe post, dunc'd on (free), duncan and hollinger, the woj pod, and game theory. agree with all of the above comments and can't really endorse the last two i mentioned (woj has a lot of interviews i don't really care about + game theory has a lot of meanderings about the draft when i'm not in draft mode).
--
more generally, i'm a lot less invested in the nba so far this season than i was last year. (much as i had a hard time paying attention to baseball in 2020.) i think it's because i thought the bubble was well designed and i felt good watching it. i don't have the same warm fuzzies with the league this year (or with baseball).
i guess this is bad comment / username synergy.
   873. CFBF's Results are Certified Posted: January 19, 2021 at 11:43 AM (#6000518)
You people listen to a lot of damn podcasts.
   874. jmurph Posted: January 19, 2021 at 12:04 PM (#6000521)
You people listen to a lot of damn podcasts.

I subscribe to a lot of damn podcasts, that's for sure. But I delete most of them without listening.
   875. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 19, 2021 at 12:12 PM (#6000522)
I subscribe to a lot of damn podcasts, that's for sure. But I delete most of them without listening.

This.
   876. NJ in NJ Posted: January 19, 2021 at 12:29 PM (#6000528)
You people listen to a lot of damn podcasts.

2x speed is a game changer.
   877. spivey 2 Posted: January 19, 2021 at 12:29 PM (#6000529)
I like to second the Pelton recommendation. I listened to his podcast, but it's very Seattle/PNW-focused and isn't basketball-driven - so I wouldn't recommend it.

He's a great guest that presents interesting thoughts and stats that I often haven't thought of, and is willing to disagree with the host if he doesn't agree with their point, which many guests across most podcasts (NBA or otherwise) don't do.

I did enjoy Dunc'd On for a while, but I felt like, at least a year back, once you've listened to one of them, you've listened to them all.
   878. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: January 19, 2021 at 12:43 PM (#6000536)
i've never checked out his pod but like pelton as a guest as well.

i do listen (not just subscribe) to a lot of damn podcasts (dozens per week - at regular speed at that). granted, i'm generally not paying much attention to them - they're background noise while i write or code or read or try to go to sleep.

I did enjoy Dunc'd On for a while, but I felt like, at least a year back, once you've listened to one of them, you've listened to them all.
very true.
   879. tshipman Posted: January 19, 2021 at 12:47 PM (#6000539)
I like Dunc'd On for a couple of things.

1. They go over every team. I value that they get to all 30 teams and discuss them with some depth. It helps me stay up to date on a lot of teams that I won't ever watch myself and understand more if I do see those teams playing.
2. They talk about the fundamentals of a team on offense and defense in a way that I think helps ground the conversation. Too often media types talk about teams as great offenses when they're like 10th in the league.

What I don't like:
1. They are weirdly stuck on some opinions. Like they stuck to Brandon Ingram being not good for a long time after it was clear he was pretty good. The notorious examples are Dennis Smith, Jr. and Juancho Hernangomez, where those guys were talked about as potential stars for ages. Garett Temple was like 10 different teams' top target this offseason.
2. They have this insistence that spacing and switching are the only ways to win in the playoffs. I think that is no longer true. Miami doesn't switch. The Lakers don't really switch that much, although they did against Houston last year. How much of the Lakers success is due to switching and how much is due to Anthony Davis? I think sometimes that this overly didactic POV can hurt their analysis.
   880. asinwreck Posted: January 19, 2021 at 12:55 PM (#6000543)
This sounds hopeful.
Delonte West is now working at the drug rehabilitation center in Florida that he attended after Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban helped the former homeless NBA player get his life back on track, a source confirmed to ESPN.

West was treated at the Rebound therapy center in Florida. Cuban picked West up at a gas station last September after pictures circulated of him panhandling at an intersection in Dallas. Cuban also helped West to reconnect with his mother.

Cuban is among several people involved in the NBA who in recent years have been attempting to help West, who publicly discussed his diagnosis of bipolar disorder during his NBA career.
   881. jmurph Posted: January 19, 2021 at 12:55 PM (#6000545)
Strong agree on points 1 and 1, tship. Duncan in particular is extremely stubborn about incorporating new information into his settled takes on players.

But yeah I do like that they'll spend a solid amount of time on teams I don't personally spend a lot of time thinking about.
   882. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 19, 2021 at 12:55 PM (#6000546)
I'm with tshipman on Dunc'd On. I do like the 15 in 60s.
   883. phredbird Posted: January 19, 2021 at 01:06 PM (#6000548)

it looks like it was designed by someone who woke up every morning and thought: "we should just bulldoze through that majority-minority community to build our 3-lane highway, and then i'll be able to get to the catskills 10 minutes quicker"



OK i laughed. but the scheme appeals to my contrarian nature. and i've always liked harden's dope beard, so the nets will be my aesthetic darlings this year. ironic, because when the rockets debuted their crazy 'R' logo, i was blown away by that, it was way ahead of it's time.

since i'm not a complete basketball nut, i don't have a favorite favorite team. i'll probably root for LA or GS in the playoffs, hoping the nets come through in the east.
   884. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: January 19, 2021 at 01:54 PM (#6000564)
879/tship - i endorse all of that

i thought that bulldoze line was funny as well, though i don't hate the nets' scheme (and like the use of helvetica)
   885. tshipman Posted: January 19, 2021 at 02:11 PM (#6000571)
The Nets' floor is one of those things that I liked when I saw renderings, but hate when I see it in person. It really does weirdly make the game look like it's in grayscale.

Nets jerseys are blah, whatever. Not a great jersey, not terrible. The NBA really only has a few great jerseys (Bulls, Lakers, Celtics, Trailblazers, maaaaybe the new Bucks whites).
   886. jmurph Posted: January 19, 2021 at 02:12 PM (#6000572)
I like the blue alt Nets jerseys, similar to one from the New Jersey days. But their other ones aren't great. The Clippers remain the biggest disappointment, though.

I still think most of the 3rd jerseys have been pretty bad, but I'm not exactly a jersey collector so I get that they're not for me.
   887. tshipman Posted: January 19, 2021 at 02:18 PM (#6000576)
I still think most of the 3rd jerseys have been pretty bad


I would say they're real bad.

Why the hell is Houston in blue?
The abomination that is the Boston third uniform.
Orlando combines orange with pinstripes for reasons that are unclear.
The Suns look like a knockoff video game that couldn't get licensing worked out.
   888. asinwreck Posted: January 19, 2021 at 02:19 PM (#6000578)
I really like the Nets' "regular" B&W uniforms, enough so that I was actively disappointed when Harden debuted in the blue 1991 uniforms. I also quite like Golden State and Toronto's uniforms of the past few years. Chicago's current alternates are nice.

   889. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: January 19, 2021 at 03:01 PM (#6000597)
Garett Temple was like 10 different teams' top target this offseason.

To be fair, Temple has looked pretty dang good so far with the Bulls. But that's a pretty low bar.

Zach Lavine has taken another step forward offensively this year, btw. Still gives plenty back defensively, but it's been pretty impressive considering he's probably playing more PG type stuff than he has before in Chicago and I know that it wasn't working for him in the role in MN.
   890. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: January 19, 2021 at 04:17 PM (#6000619)
Chicago's current alternates are nice.

They look better in action that when you see a picture of them. They're still easily the worst of their alternates, IMO, but yes, still above average.
   891. tshipman Posted: January 19, 2021 at 04:30 PM (#6000624)
My only issue with the Chicago alternates is that the Chicago primaries are the best or at worst second best uniforms in basketball, so why are you dicking around with it?
   892. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 19, 2021 at 05:03 PM (#6000630)
I jumped back here and read the last post and initially thought it was talking about the Bulls bench. I was all ready to question that take when it finally penetrated what was being talked about.
   893. phredbird Posted: January 19, 2021 at 05:25 PM (#6000641)

heh. logos and marketing are such a funny thing. some franchises know not to mess with the look (yankees) but newer teams need to find their way to fan loyalty and play around a little.

most of the logos i like are old school, but every now and then somebody does something different and i go 'hm, yeah'.

portland's logo is actually pretty old now, very 70s, but i like it cuz it's so well executed, it still feels fresh.
   894. smileyy Posted: January 19, 2021 at 08:12 PM (#6000675)
Going back to Delonte West, bipolar disorder is a #####. I have type 2 (hypomania, not full on mania) and I'll admit, I miss the high ever since I started taking medication. I can only imagine how easy it is to chase that and stop taking medication. It is also associated with incredibly high rates of suicide. I hope he can stabilize his life. Happy to see he's getting help.
   895. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: January 20, 2021 at 09:56 AM (#6000767)
With Jonathan Isaac and Markelle Fultz both out for the season, I wonder if Orlando goes into fire sale mode. It seems like a good year to be a seller, with a bunch of teams trying to contend, a (perceived) strong draft, and less financial downside than usual from giving up on the season. I think the Magic could get a nice haul in exchange for Vucevic and Gordon, and Fournier and Ross have positive value too.

For example, the Warriors have to be looking to make a move, right? That they're managing to be in the bottom quarter of the league offensively with Curry on the court is kinda impressive in terms of the sheer degree of difficulty. Their starting lineup is Curry and 4 bricklayers, 3 of whom are poor decision-makers who don't create for others. Shouldn't they be willing to give up Wiseman, the Wolves pick, or both to try to avoid wasting the rest of Curry's prime? Starting Vucevic in place of Wiseman would make their offense soooo much better.
   896. spivey 2 Posted: January 20, 2021 at 10:15 AM (#6000770)
Terrence Ross should get you a first, and I think he'd be a great fit on Milwaukee and the Lakers. Though I don't know that the Lakers, Clippers, or Bucks have much in the way of draft capital.

I think he'd be a good fit for Toronto if they bounce back and still want to try to win, and Philly. They both need another wing scorer.
   897. sardonic Posted: January 20, 2021 at 10:53 AM (#6000778)
If I'm the Warriors I'm not a real buyer unless I see a deal that makes me a contender next year when Klay is back.

I doubt there's a deal that gets them there this year, and there probably isn't one for next year either. I see them just aiming to make the playoffs this year and develop Wiseman and then evaluate after the season. More likely than not they will then use the Wolves pick, see if they can get a few breaks and make some noise in the playoffs with Klay and try to have it both ways.

They're probably just as close to planning around Wiseman's timeline as Curry's if the goal is to win a championship.
   898. tshipman Posted: January 20, 2021 at 02:25 PM (#6000812)
For example, the Warriors have to be looking to make a move, right? That they're managing to be in the bottom quarter of the league offensively with Curry on the court is kinda impressive in terms of the sheer degree of difficulty. Their starting lineup is Curry and 4 bricklayers, 3 of whom are poor decision-makers who don't create for others. Shouldn't they be willing to give up Wiseman, the Wolves pick, or both to try to avoid wasting the rest of Curry's prime? Starting Vucevic in place of Wiseman would make their offense soooo much better.


I strongly doubt the Warriors make that kind of a move. Wiseman + Wolves pick is worth a lot more than Vucevic, and Vucevic is not worth the luxury tax bill he'd incur. Vucevic is not the kind of guy who makes a team a contender. He may be unplayable against the Lakers, for example.
   899. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 20, 2021 at 03:03 PM (#6000822)
Thanks for being willing to share, smileyy. West has always seemed like a good guy; I hope he's able to maintain and build on his stability going forward.
   900. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: January 20, 2021 at 07:21 PM (#6000856)
Adam Himmelsbach @AdamHimmelsbach
The Sixers have their entire hype team here, thundersticks and all, and it's weird.
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