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Friday, October 15, 2021

NBA 2021-2022 Season Thread

I estimate there are maybe 10-12 Primates left on this site, and none of us want to post this thread.

Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: October 15, 2021 at 11:39 AM | 2056 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: get me out of philly, nba, off top

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   1201. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: December 01, 2021 at 04:46 PM (#6055654)
Flop.

But I'm pretty happy with the process with the Wovles. They're playing reasonably well, and Edwards has had some real flashes. I am excited and expecting to get screwed, as usual.
   1202. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 01, 2021 at 04:54 PM (#6055657)
Regarding the Wolves there is a little bit of "don't jinx it" going on from me.

Mostly I am really happy with the direction the franchise is going in.

1) Glenn Taylor is on his way out. Not gone yet, but he is a bad owner and bad owners kill franchises.

2) Ant Edwards has a chance to be the real deal. A superstar player and leader, plus an awesome interview. He is obviously not there yet, but he started raw, and he keeps making progress and seems to have the right attitude and work ethic. And he certainly has the raw tools to be great.

3) Chris Finch. He is a real NBA coach. I don't know where he will slot in league-wide, but it isn't the case of "Hey, he is young and could grow into a great coach". He is already an NBA coach.

4) Defense. Yes, they have had some serious shooting luck, but still, they seem to care about defense. They are hustling and working on the defensive end, and they are seeing results (even if a bit fluky). How much of the defense is due to luck, how much to coaching, and how much to our next entry, well I am not sure.

5) DRuss. For the first time ... ever? ... Russell seems to be playing like a complete player. He is shooting and passing and even (gasp!) playing some defense. Will it last? Maybe not, but I am enjoying to new improved model while it lasts.

6) A lack of non-NBA players getting minutes. There are very few minutes of "Oh no, why is that guy getting minutes?" Way fewer than previous years. The filler guys have become respectable rotation or bench guys, with roles they can fill. It is like a real team.


Where they end up, I have no idea. Will KAT ever grow up and ease up on the whiny bullshit? Probably not. But still, there is hope in the air.
   1203. An Athletic in Powderhorn Posted: December 01, 2021 at 05:42 PM (#6055667)
With MPJ out, Denver looks less threatening, so the only team behind MN that looks better on paper is Portland.
And now Dame will miss at least 10 days with "lower abdominal tendinopathy". Boo.
   1204. aberg Posted: December 01, 2021 at 06:30 PM (#6055678)
Opponent shooting has been a bit lucky, but they're not the very luckiest in the league. Opponents are shooting 36% on wide open threes against a league median of 37.7%. Against "open," it's 28.4 vs. 32.5. The converse is that the Wolves are 34% on wide open vs. 37.3 median (bigger gap than opponent shooting). They're within tenths of a percentage of average on open threes and leading the league in % of threes that are open. Net, that's a little lucky, but not so bad that it has me worried about a defensive collapse.
   1205. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: December 01, 2021 at 07:16 PM (#6055685)
I mean, any defense this godforsaken team plays is a bonus, so we're already in the black for this year, is my way of thinking.

But I'm way less interested in Simmons than I was earlier in the season, I tell you that for free.
   1206. SteveF Posted: December 01, 2021 at 07:47 PM (#6055687)
Al Horford revenge game.
   1207. Mike A Posted: December 01, 2021 at 08:02 PM (#6055690)
I've been to Indianapolis a dozen times and still forget it's in the Eastern Time Zone, so I missed half the Hawks/Pacers game.

They mentioned during the game that the Pacers haven't had a single-digit draft pick in 32 years (1989). It's crazy but true. Paul George in 2010 and Erick Dampier in 1996 were #10 picks.
   1208. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: December 01, 2021 at 08:05 PM (#6055691)
Al Horford revenge game.
shake milton coming out party.
   1209. SteveF Posted: December 01, 2021 at 08:05 PM (#6055692)
shake milton coming out party.

He's had a few of those in his career. Dude can get pretty hot.
   1210. SteveF Posted: December 01, 2021 at 08:15 PM (#6055694)
Celtics still look broken on offense. Philly's offense looks so much better.
   1211. SteveF Posted: December 01, 2021 at 09:16 PM (#6055708)
So many missed shots the teams are damaging the rims.
   1212. PJ Martinez Posted: December 01, 2021 at 10:00 PM (#6055736)
Embiid didn't look right physically, but I think Boston also played him well defensively. The C's defense has become really good. But, yeah, their offense is still broken. Some terrible possessions by Tatum in that game, which has been a theme all season. And just too much standing around.
   1213. SteveF Posted: December 01, 2021 at 10:02 PM (#6055737)
Philly looked like the better team to me, to be honest. Both teams shot poorly but the Celtics generally shoot poorly. I'd expect Philly to hit more of the shots they got going forward.
   1214. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: December 01, 2021 at 10:25 PM (#6055745)
I don't see any mention Bam is gonna be out for a while with a torn thumb ligament.
   1215. Mike A Posted: December 01, 2021 at 10:33 PM (#6055749)
Embiid didn't look right physically
COVID kicked his ass pretty good, according to Joel himself.

So of course, Doc runs him out there 45 minutes in his first game back.

May take Embiid a few weeks to regain strength. 7-33 his last two games, ouch.
   1216. Hombre Brotani Posted: December 02, 2021 at 02:55 AM (#6055781)
5) DRuss. For the first time ... ever? ... Russell seems to be playing like a complete player. He is shooting and passing and even (gasp!) playing some defense. Will it last? Maybe not, but I am enjoying to new improved model while it lasts.
You people -- that's right, I said it -- you people have always been way too down on Russell. Idiot locker room indiscretion aside* the guy has become a solid contributor. He's continually improved his game from year to year, and while he's never going to be a star (or a brain surgeon), he's also a lot better than the dumpster fire too many people here think he is.

*And really, the bad indiscretion wasn't exactly Russell's.
   1217. jmurph Posted: December 02, 2021 at 07:43 AM (#6055793)
He's continually improved his game from year to year

This is extremely charitable.
   1218. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: December 02, 2021 at 08:52 AM (#6055799)
I just like sharing these from time-to-time, here are the current conference odds at pinnacle.com

East
+165 Brooklyn
+280 Milwaukee
+550 Miami
+950 Philadelphia
+1325 Chicago
+1400 Atlanta
+2300 Boston
+3564 Charlotte
+3768 New York
+4074 Washington

West
+255 Golden State
+320 Phoenix
+420 Utah
+515 Lakers
+1200 Clippers
+1300 Nuggets
+1500 Dallas
+2734 Portland
+3000 Memphis
+5457 Minnesota
   1219. spivey 2 Posted: December 02, 2021 at 09:05 AM (#6055801)
D'Angelo Russell is a minus efficiency scorer and a below average distributor for a PG. He's also been below average at defense. It's hard for that to add up to a valuable piece, in my mind.

His +/- has been poor his whole career, until this year. His DARKO rating has him as 0.5 currently, but he was -0.8 before this year. Similar story with RAPTOR - he was below average the previous two years, but is solidly above average this year.

I think us guys were right. He's been a meh, non-winning player for most of his career. He's playing well now, but we're also talking about 652 minutes. Let's see it sustain.
   1220. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 02, 2021 at 09:30 AM (#6055812)
#1219, but at least his contract is a bargain!

But seriously, I really hope the improvement is real. It is possible, but mostly I am enjoying it while it lasts.
   1221. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: December 02, 2021 at 09:39 AM (#6055813)
I wonder if something has happened to westbrooks hands. The ball seems to slip out of his hand two or three times per game.


Maybe he eats too much candy a la Dwight Howard.
   1222. asinwreck Posted: December 02, 2021 at 01:17 PM (#6055874)
Russell was effective in a guard combination with Spencer Dinwiddie, Joe Harris, and (when healthy) Caris Le Vert during his final season in Brooklyn. I haven't paid close attention to his game since the Durant sign-and-trade, other than to note his injury problems.
   1223. Moeball Posted: December 02, 2021 at 01:54 PM (#6055882)
This is totally out of left field, but I was looking on basketball reference and didn't see anything on how players shoot on FTs at end of close games as compared to the rest of the game, sort of like the basketball version of "late and close". I've had friends make comments before about players who are terrible FT shooters overall"but this guy is actually really clutch on FTs when the game is on the line." Is there a way to verify this? I haven't found it anywhere.
   1224. KronicFatigue Posted: December 02, 2021 at 02:35 PM (#6055902)
Maybe he eats too much candy a la Dwight Howard.


His personal chef was also his bodyguard AND his assistant? That sounds resoundingly cheap on Howard's part.
   1225. PJ Martinez Posted: December 02, 2021 at 03:18 PM (#6055910)
Apparently ESPN has dropped Lakers-Clips in favor of Warriors-Suns after all. Good call, obviously.

Edit: They might have chosen differently if LeBron were playing, of course.
   1226. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: December 02, 2021 at 03:18 PM (#6055911)
His personal chef was also his bodyguard AND his assistant? That sounds resoundingly cheap on Howard's part.


Ehh, a combination of the two is pretty easy to see. Big jacked weightlifter guy is your bodyguard, and also knows nutrition for a good body? Easy to see. Bodyguard that doubles as an assistant? Why not, he's around all the time anyways.
   1227. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: December 02, 2021 at 03:44 PM (#6055920)
Ehh, a combination of the two is pretty easy to see. Big jacked weightlifter guy is your bodyguard, and also knows nutrition for a good body? Easy to see. Bodyguard that doubles as an assistant? Why not, he's around all the time anyways.
it could also be a jim mcgreevy situation.
   1228. spivey 2 Posted: December 02, 2021 at 03:55 PM (#6055922)
Brook Lopez had back surgery today and is out indefinitely. I think folks who don't watch Milwaukee regularly don't appreciate how important he is to the team. Really hope he's back this year.
   1229. Hombre Brotani Posted: December 02, 2021 at 05:14 PM (#6055940)
He's continually improved his game from year to year
This is extremely charitable.
All right, maybe there's some overreach there but, for example, I don't think he's just accidentally playing better defense. There's always been way too much focus on the stuff Russell did in the past, or what he can't do well. He's not a nuclear athlete and he doesn't have one unbelievable skill, but he's got a good handle, is a really good passer, and terrific at running PnR. If his shooting percentages rise back to his career norms and maintains a reasonable amount of defensive improvement, both reasonable expectations, that's a pretty good point guard.
   1230. tshipman Posted: December 02, 2021 at 07:32 PM (#6055964)
LeBron is out? Of COVID protocols.

So that's weird.
   1231. Hombre Brotani Posted: December 02, 2021 at 07:44 PM (#6055965)
If you're vaxed and asymptomatic, negative tests two days in a row gets you back on the court.
   1232. asinwreck Posted: December 02, 2021 at 08:05 PM (#6055968)
This Bulls-Knicks game is feisty. The MSG crowd is irate.
@StephNoh
Alex Caruso got an offensive rebound, threw a no-look, between-the-legs pass for a dunk, drew an offensive foul on Taj Gibson, participated in Gibson losing his mind and drawing two techs, and drew another offensive foul on Julius Randle all within his first 2:28 of checking in.
   1233. I don't want to talk about Rocco Posted: December 02, 2021 at 08:21 PM (#6055971)
Kind of ugly for Bucks. Only down 7 but seems like 15.
   1234. SteveF Posted: December 02, 2021 at 08:51 PM (#6055976)
This is totally out of left field, but I was looking on basketball reference and didn't see anything on how players shoot on FTs at end of close games as compared to the rest of the game, sort of like the basketball version of "late and close". I've had friends make comments before about players who are terrible FT shooters overall "but this guy is actually really clutch on FTs when the game is on the line." Is there a way to verify this? I haven't found it anywhere.

The only way I've found to do this is to use pbpstats.com's possession finder, input your criteria for "close and late" (quarter(s), range of time within quarter, range of score, or alternatively rely on pbpstats.com leverage setting (low, medium, high, very high -- what each means is defined on the website and found by clicking on the "details" hyperlink above the dropdown menu)) input the player in question and then check through all the possessions and count up the free throw makes/attempts.

It's less work than it sounds but might still be more work than you're willing to do.
   1235. PJ Martinez Posted: December 02, 2021 at 08:52 PM (#6055977)
I don't know how meaningful this is a quarter of the way through the season, but I was curious what Net Rating and SRS suggest about whose won-loss records might notably overstate or understate a team's quality thus far. Both stats seem to suggest that Indiana is significantly better than its record and Washington is significantly worse than its record, which makes sense. The other discrepancies are smaller, though both do have Utah ahead of Phoenix (with Golden State as the class of the league by far).
   1236. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: December 02, 2021 at 09:01 PM (#6055979)
Utah has had something like the 2nd easiest schedule so far, and even that might understate it since they faced Bucks with no one good but Giannis, Denver with only one half from Jokic (and IIRC on 2nd of a b2b), Heat without Butler one of the two games, and Philly without Embiid. Their most impressive win thus far is probably in Atlanta or their last game against Portland, neither of which are exactly top teams. Of course it's not their fault the schedule hasn't really had any games against healthy top teams (except Heat once), but right now I don't see any reason to put them higher than 3rd best in the west.

One positive surprising thing though is they have had a historically great offense.
@Ben_Dowsett
·
8h
Largest offensive outliers (above league average) in the @cleantheglass
database (back to 03-04):

1. 03-04 Mavs: +9.1 points above league average Ortg
2. 04-05 Suns: +8.9
**3. 21-22 Jazz (+8.6)**
4. 09-10 Suns: +8.4
5. 15-16 Warriors: +8.3

Can the Jazz sustain this? ICYMI:


I'm sure it will regress, but looks like if healthy they'll be a top offense again. Now if I just believed they could get a defense that will work against top teams in the playoffs...
   1237. Harlond Posted: December 02, 2021 at 09:18 PM (#6055982)
Khris Middleton with a looooong 3 and a very tough fadeaway 2 in the last 34 seconds of the 3rd quarter. When he's off, he's very off, but when he's on . . . .
   1238. spivey 2 Posted: December 02, 2021 at 09:40 PM (#6055985)
Re: 1236

Embiid, Jokic, Doncic, LeBron, Butler, and the various Bucks - among many others I'm sure I'm forgetting - have all missed a few games. I hear and see similar key misses for some of the other teams too. It's a factor, but point is you can't throw it out for just one team, because it's a common thing.

   1239. asinwreck Posted: December 02, 2021 at 09:59 PM (#6055989)
Jesus OKC.
   1240. PJ Martinez Posted: December 02, 2021 at 10:01 PM (#6055990)
Yeah, just saw the score of that game. Holy ####.

Edit: Someone named Santi Aldama (?) is currently a +53 for the game. (He leads the Grizzlies in minutes played, at 27.)

Second edit: new record for largest margin of victory, at 73 points (previous record was 68), but just short of the true double-up, which they still had with a minute to go.
   1241. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: December 02, 2021 at 10:06 PM (#6055991)
Those +/-s…
   1242. asinwreck Posted: December 02, 2021 at 10:10 PM (#6055992)
The Memphis bench apparently feasted.
   1243. Mike A Posted: December 02, 2021 at 10:10 PM (#6055993)
Both Jeremiah Robinson-Earl (-56) and Lu Dort (-53) made a serious run at the -57 plus/minus record held by Manny Harris against the Lakers in 2011 (the NBA started keeping track of plus/minus in 2007). They will now occupy the 2nd and 3rd slots respectively.

As noted above, Santi had it up to +57 before falling victim to garbage time. Though to be fair, the last three quarters were pretty much garbage time. The record is +57, as you all know, held by of course Luc Mbah a Moute.
   1244. asinwreck Posted: December 02, 2021 at 10:13 PM (#6055994)
The Thunder made a late run to make it look just bad rather than historically terrible, but at one point were being outscored 28-5 for the fourth quarter.

EDIT: I should specify "make the fourth quarter look just bad rather than historically terrible," as the overall game was a record for margin of victory.
   1245. Mike A Posted: December 02, 2021 at 10:19 PM (#6055995)
Wow, statmuse already has Robinson-Earl and Dort listed. That's impressive. Looks like Santi's +52 performance lands him 3rd best.
   1246. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: December 02, 2021 at 10:58 PM (#6055996)
One funny thing about this game is that by itself it's going to decrease Ja Morant's season on/off by like 2 points.
   1247. PJ Martinez Posted: December 02, 2021 at 11:16 PM (#6055998)
Grizz got their winning basket 2:12 into the third quarter. I checked the DARKO pbp-data to see if that was was a record, and the answer is...no! Dallas once defeated The Process Sixers with 12 seconds left in the 1H.
   1248. tshipman Posted: December 02, 2021 at 11:20 PM (#6055999)
OKC was winning too many games. Gotta send in the tank a team.

The annoying thing is that the league won't step in because it's OKC.
   1249. CFBF is Obsessed with Art Deco Posted: December 02, 2021 at 11:48 PM (#6056000)
For some reason I'm amused by the fact that OKC got 22 free throws.
   1250. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: December 03, 2021 at 03:32 AM (#6056002)
His personal chef was also his bodyguard AND his assistant?


Casey Ryback needed a new gig after leaving the navy.
   1251. DCA Posted: December 03, 2021 at 09:18 AM (#6056011)
That +/- is insane.

The Grizzlies played 12 guys. All of them were at least +14.

Brandon Clarke (+14 in 15 minutes) and Desmond Bane (+16 in 18 minutes) were the only ones not to be at least +1/minute.

The Thunder played 10 guys. All of them were -18 or worse.

Something named Gabriel Deck (that I didn't know existed until a minute ago, -18 in 22 minutes) was the only guy to not be worse than -1/minute.
   1252. spivey 2 Posted: December 03, 2021 at 09:37 AM (#6056012)
I was listening to the Duncan/Hollinger organization ratings and they were talking about Pop's pursuit of the wins record. He's only 19 wins from sole possession of first, so it should definitely happen this year imo. The team is more mediocre than they are terrible. Beat Portland @ Portland by 31 last night!

Anyways, had me looking at the list, and I did not appreciate how long Rivers' career has been. He's 11th all-time in games coached, and 10th in wins. He's only 332 wins back of Don Nelson (1st). He seems *very* likely to get the wins record, though his win % is well below Pop, Riley, and Jackson (probably the top 3 modern coaches, right?).
   1253. PJ Martinez Posted: December 03, 2021 at 01:25 PM (#6056035)
The Trail Blazers terminated GM Neil Olshey due to violations of the team’s Code of Conduct, team says. Director of Player Personnel Joe Cronin has been promoted to interim GM while Portland conducts search for replacement.
   1254. jmurph Posted: December 03, 2021 at 01:25 PM (#6056036)
Olshey fired by the Blazers as a result of the internal investigation into his conduct.

What a mess they are right now.

EDIT: Beaten to it by PJ.
   1255. asinwreck Posted: December 03, 2021 at 02:15 PM (#6056037)
@ChrisBHaynes
Yahoo Sources: With the Portland Trail Blazers firing general manager Neil Olshey, two candidates expected to receive strong consideration are Chicago Bulls GM Marc Eversley and New York Knicks GM Scott Perry.
Refreshing to see a Bulls executive as a desirable candidate to lead other teams. That's a departure from the status quo before April of 2020.
   1256. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: December 03, 2021 at 07:31 PM (#6056079)
Kyle Neubeck @KyleNeubeck
Stephen A. Smith just said on NBA Countdown that New York is the one place Dame Lillard would angle for if he eventually wanted/asked out. Adds, “There are people in his camp who would like him to give Philadelphia stronger consideration.”

   1257. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: December 03, 2021 at 08:13 PM (#6056084)
Pop, Riley, and Jackson (probably the top 3 modern coaches, right?)
I have to imagine that's the consensus, yeah. I personally am generally skeptical of coach rankings, because I think apparent coach quality shares some of the same problems as plus/minus-based analyses: the data is noisy and heavily influenced by the degree of talent of other people on the team. Those three were obviously excellent, though (unless you were talking about Mark Jackson, of course).
   1258. spivey 2 Posted: December 03, 2021 at 10:18 PM (#6056096)
Trading Mikal Bridges was not a great move for Philadelphia.
   1259. SteveF Posted: December 03, 2021 at 10:19 PM (#6056097)
If Philly does get Lillard, I wonder if they'd want to flip Curry for a guard with a little more defensive heft. I'm not sure about a Lillard/Curry backcourt in the playoffs. Maybe Embiid being back there makes it work.

Edit: Though maybe at that point you flip Maxey for something instead given the length of Lillard's contract and go all in.
   1260. spivey 2 Posted: December 03, 2021 at 10:30 PM (#6056098)
Big fan of watching Phoenix and Golden State play. Both teams are very good defensively and make you uncomfortable running your offense.
   1261. spivey 2 Posted: December 03, 2021 at 10:52 PM (#6056099)
Hopefully Bridges is ok there. Didn't seem happy about his hand coming off the floor.
   1262. Hombre Brotani Posted: December 03, 2021 at 11:45 PM (#6056106)
I can't even hate-watch the Lakers right now.
   1263. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: December 04, 2021 at 12:45 AM (#6056107)
The Lakers just couldn't get over the hump against the Clippers who shot the three very well, 46%. Ever watch a game and just have a feeling your team isn't going to get over the hump? That was the Lakers today. Clippers lead for most of the game, Lakers cut the lead down to 1 late and LeBron finds Monk for a wide-open three, and he misses it. Marcus Morris then hits a lucky three over AD, bank shot, and that was essentiall the game as the Clippers went up four late. Lakers missed a lot of free throws and that cost them as well.

   1264. Harlond Posted: December 04, 2021 at 09:53 PM (#6056223)
The Bulls and Nets just had a sequence that started with a turnover leading to a Cam Thomas layup blocked by Dosunmu that the Bulls promptly turned over, that the Nets just as quickly turned back over, leaving the Bulls in a 2 on 1 that Millsap managed to knock out of bounds, all this in about 15 seconds at breakneck speed. Just a fantastic sequence of bizarreness.
   1265. asinwreck Posted: December 04, 2021 at 09:58 PM (#6056224)
This is a sequence between the two teams with the best records in the East.

EDIT: Coke to Harlond #1264. I scared the dog laughing at what we were seeing.
   1266. asinwreck Posted: December 04, 2021 at 10:20 PM (#6056226)
The Nets may have been tired playing on the second half a back-to-back, but that was an impressive win by a Bulls team that had Caruso out for most of the game. DeRozan and LaVine have made this team impressive at closing out fourth quarters.
   1267. PJ Martinez Posted: December 04, 2021 at 11:21 PM (#6056234)
Apparently Memphis has yet to trail in the games played since Ja Morant got injured. First team with four straight wire-to-wire wins since Elias started tracking play-by-play data.
   1268. SteveF Posted: December 05, 2021 at 12:46 AM (#6056243)
Portland should be blown up. The basketball team, not the city.
   1269. PJ Martinez Posted: December 05, 2021 at 12:05 PM (#6056249)
Portland should be blown up. The basketball team, not the city.

There have been a lot of half-joking comments about the Trailblazers calling local boy Danny Ainge to take the job... On the one hand, it seemed to me that he had lost his fastball by the end of his tenure in Boston. (Edit: not to mention the speculation that he had grown too distant from the current players, as evidenced by those unfortunate comments he made, etc.) On the other hand, if you brought him in specifically to blow it up and accumulate assets for a rebuild, knowing that he won't stick around for too long given how close he is to retirement (and knowing that he's cold-blooded enough to make those sorts of deals) -- well, you could probably do worse.
   1270. spivey 2 Posted: December 05, 2021 at 06:44 PM (#6056287)
Portland's needed to be blown up for a while. Some random Dame magic in the playoffs including that year they got a very soft run into the WCF doesn't change that.

Olshey being fired suggests there were internal issues as discussed, so I'm highly skeptical they ever would have put together a championship caliber team, but they really blew their best shot that year of the cap spike where they gave tons of money to Crabbe, Turner, etc. Not that there were other good FAs that year besides Durant, but they could have waited or maybe tried to take on money through a trade.
   1271. Fourth True Outcome Posted: December 06, 2021 at 02:40 PM (#6056404)
The big X factor for the Blazers now and for at least the short-term future is Jody Allen. She's been reputed to be interested in selling the team since she inherited it, so that might preclude a full teardown even if it's the right move for the roster. I continue to think they are one of the few teams that Simmons makes sense for if they can get him for Not Dame, but we shall see if Morey is interested in that. But if that move isn't out there for a price they (whoever takes over as GM, I guess) are willing to pay, I'm not sure what they can do to move the needle. Olshey's "the roster is not the problem" roster really seems like a pretty big problem for them going forward.
   1272. spivey 2 Posted: December 06, 2021 at 07:29 PM (#6056438)
What would Lu Dort cost? Does OKC even want to give him RFA 3&D money? I mean, I would guess he's positive value on like a 4/60 deal if they wanted to move him later. They're fascinating in like a Football Manager/Diamond Mind sense in that it's like when do they pivot - to actually giving a #### - I guess it depends on if they get a top 3 pick this next draft. I heard Hollinger and Duncan mentioning the top 3 is strong again, and the 2023 draft is expected to be good. If they keep the absurd tanking going on for next year too.. oof.
   1273. asinwreck Posted: December 06, 2021 at 07:41 PM (#6056439)
Summing up 2021 in an afternoon, DeMar DeRozan was named Eastern Conference Player of the Week and entered the league's health and safety protocols.
   1274. Harlond Posted: December 06, 2021 at 07:42 PM (#6056440)
Both Hornets rookies, James Bouknight and JT Thor, got their first baskets in tonight's game against Philly. Thor got his on a monster jam. That's kinda fun.

The Hornets beat Atlanta in Atlanta last night without LaMelo or Rozier, getting a big game from Ish Smith, and they're beating the Sixers without all three of those guys--so no point guards at all--in the second quarter tonight. That's kinda fun, too.
   1275. spivey 2 Posted: December 06, 2021 at 07:57 PM (#6056443)
Detroit came into tonight shooting .299 as a team from 3. Killian Hayes is leading the team in 3pt%. Killian Hayes also has a 2pt% of .317 this year. These bad teams are so bad.
   1276. SteveF Posted: December 06, 2021 at 08:12 PM (#6056446)
Looking at the Hornets active players tonight, I'm unironically impressed they've held him to only 17 points on 7 shots.
   1277. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: December 06, 2021 at 08:49 PM (#6056449)
Wovles are not covering themselves in glory tonight.
   1278. spivey 2 Posted: December 06, 2021 at 08:56 PM (#6056450)
Pat Connaughton isn't going to win 6th man. Or deserve it even. But he has been one of the best bench players in the league this year.
   1279. spivey 2 Posted: December 06, 2021 at 09:40 PM (#6056458)
Cleveland has a pretty damn good defense. Hell, I'll go so far as to say I think an Allen/Mobley defense can be a championship level defense starting, well, now.
   1280. spivey 2 Posted: December 06, 2021 at 09:53 PM (#6056460)
Miami's fallen pretty hard since their great start, and with Bam out for a lot of time, my perspective is they're back where I expected them to be - which is, in danger of the play in, but clearly dangerous in the playoffs.

I still think they're just so reliant on Jimmy Butler to play at a near MVP level to beat good teams. He's obviously capable of that, but I don't know how likely it is to do 3-4 rounds in a row.
   1281. spivey 2 Posted: December 06, 2021 at 10:20 PM (#6056462)
Cleveland is a tough team. That's weird to say. If Sexton or Markkanen were the players they thought they were, they'd be good. There's a lot of teams like this, but if they could get a good two-way wing, they'd be a real pain in the ass.
   1282. Harlond Posted: December 07, 2021 at 11:03 AM (#6056496)
Hornets ended up losing to the Sixers in overtime. Seven Hornets scored in double-figures, 4 with more than 4 assists (31 assists on 48 baskets), but that wasn't enough to overcome Embiid's 43 pts and 15 rebounds. The OT started badly for the Hornets when Oubre stole the tip and then badly missed a layup with no one within 4 feet of him. Might have been poked in the eye. Then down 3 in the closing 35 seconds, the Hornets couldn't get a good look on two trips. Strange to say, but they really could have used Ish Smith in that last minute.

Still might be a confidence builder. Strong back-to-back performances against 2 playoff teams with practically everybody having a credible showing. Hornets might have some depth. Plus both of their rookies showed up pretty well. They both scored their first NBA baskets (Bouknight had previously hit 2 FTs), they both hit their first 3Pt, and they both threw down monster jams (which you can see on the highlights).
   1283. CFBF is Obsessed with Art Deco Posted: December 07, 2021 at 11:47 AM (#6056500)
Why is it Oklahoma City isn't getting the same attention and scorn for tanking as The Process Sixers? They're not being any more subtle or less shameless about it. Is it just that Presti doesn't sound like he's giving a TED Talk on The Virtues of Tanking in obnoxious Silicon Valley patois?
   1284. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: December 07, 2021 at 12:05 PM (#6056502)
Is it just that Presti doesn't sound like he's giving a TED Talk on The Virtues of Tanking in obnoxious Silicon Valley patois?


Honestly, I think the answer to this is "yes".

Also, I love that this posted the morning after my beloved Pistons lost at home to OKC by double digits.
   1285. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: December 07, 2021 at 12:43 PM (#6056507)
Why is it Oklahoma City isn't getting the same attention and scorn for tanking as The Process Sixers? They're not being any more subtle or less shameless about it. Is it just that Presti doesn't sound like he's giving a TED Talk on The Virtues of Tanking in obnoxious Silicon Valley patois?
it's probably because they didn't draft a joel embiid, and they haven't sold off SGA.
   1286. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 07, 2021 at 01:01 PM (#6056512)
I am sympathetic to the thought behind the process, but OKC is much less publically obnoxious about it. Some of that is, of course, the media environment between Philly and OKC is shall we say slightly different. However, I think OKC better start trying to win soon or I will be annoyed by it. They have enough draft picks, maybe put together a real team soon?
   1287. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: December 07, 2021 at 09:00 PM (#6056573)
OKC is only in year 2 of tanking, and the same GM, Presti, has consistently brought in players who were good and/or high profile in the past. Also, theis year's team surprisingly doesn't look like one of the worst teams of all time, just a run-of-the mill bad team.
   1288. PJ Martinez Posted: December 07, 2021 at 09:50 PM (#6056578)
Silly challenge here by Brooklyn, pushed for by Harden, who clearly swiped Doncic on the wrist. It's going to cost Brooklyn their last timeout, in a three-point game with 50 seconds to go.

Edit: Well what do you know. Of course, Dallas could still win this jump-ball, another reason the challenge didn't make sense. (And now they just did.)
   1289. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: December 07, 2021 at 09:59 PM (#6056579)
As an aside, I don't like when overturned foul calls unconditionally default to a jump ball; if one team is establishing an advantage in the wake of a blown call, it seems a real shame to rob them of it because of referee error.

Hardly the difference in this game, though.
   1290. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: December 07, 2021 at 10:23 PM (#6056581)
Also a really dumb system where you can get an incorrect call that disadvantaged you overturned and after that you can't challenge any more wrong calls
   1291. nick swisher hygiene Posted: December 07, 2021 at 10:35 PM (#6056582)
For the first 9 seasons of his career, Russell Westbrook was an 82% free throw shooter.
For the last 4 and change, he’s been a 69% free throw shooter.

Who else has weirdly lost it to this extent mid-career?
   1292. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: December 07, 2021 at 11:12 PM (#6056586)
His teammate, LeBron, has a noticeably worseFT% as a Laker, but it’s rebounded to his career average this year.
   1293. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: December 07, 2021 at 11:15 PM (#6056587)
The "competition" for the lower seeds of the playoff bracket in the West is interesting in that the best thing a team can do is have some off-days and which themselves pick-up ground as the rest of the teams lose.
   1294. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: December 08, 2021 at 12:24 AM (#6056590)
Every time I see Juancho Hernangomez play, I'm amazed at how good he isn't. Good first half highlights, good second half from the Lakers.
   1295. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: December 08, 2021 at 01:15 AM (#6056594)
I didn't watch the game but it looks like the Lakers win against the Celtics was their best win of the season. LeBron and Westbrook looked like they got to the rim a lot more frequently and they didn't shoot as many threes. Westbrook had a pretty good assist to turnover ratio and Davis had a big rebounding night with a few blocks and a few steals.

For as bad as the Lakers have been this year, they aren't in too bad of a position. A few good weeks and they could be high as 4th in the conference.
   1296. Mike A Posted: December 08, 2021 at 02:12 AM (#6056595)
For the first 9 seasons of his career, Russell Westbrook was an 82% free throw shooter.
For the last 4 and change, he’s been a 69% free throw shooter.

Who else has weirdly lost it to this extent mid-career?
I'd bet there's someone out there, but I looked and looked and came up blank. There's year-to-year variance, but the vast majority of long-time players are remarkable consistent at the line for their careers whether they're good or bad FT shooters.

There were a couple who started out bad and got appreciably worse - ex. Wilt Chamberlain (58% his first four years, 47% after) and Josh Smith. Alonzo and Richard Jefferson faded at the end of their careers. George McGinnis is perhaps the closest I found to Westbrook - he went from 71% his first eight years (4747 attempts) to 54% his last four years (1520 attempts). But then his career was over, and we assume Westbrook has 4-5 more years to go.

There's a lot of speculation about Westbrook's FT shooting - he himself claimed it was the NBA's rule change which forced him to stay inside the 3-point line in between FTs which disturbed his lifetime routine. Others think it has to do with injuries. But as noted - it's really weird.
   1297. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: December 08, 2021 at 02:41 AM (#6056597)
Iguodala came immediately to mind. First 6 years 72 percent and up, hasn't touched that mark since with years sprinkled throughout the 50s and 60s.
   1298. jmurph Posted: December 08, 2021 at 07:39 AM (#6056602)
There are times, like the first half last night, where I wonder how long LeBron can maintain this. +/- 3 more years? 5? He's absurd.
   1299. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: December 08, 2021 at 08:51 AM (#6056604)
nick anderson also deserves a mention here. 70% FT% in his first 7 years; 57% in his last 6.
   1300. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: December 08, 2021 at 10:39 AM (#6056619)

nick anderson also deserves a mention here. 70% FT% in his first 7 years; 57% in his last 6.


Got to have been mental with him. His lowest % (only 40%!) came in '96 after his finals misses. His 2pt% was down as well though, was he hiding an injury at the end of '95?
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