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Friday, October 15, 2021

NBA 2021-2022 Season Thread

I estimate there are maybe 10-12 Primates left on this site, and none of us want to post this thread.

Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: October 15, 2021 at 11:39 AM | 2056 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: get me out of philly, nba, off top

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   1301. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: December 08, 2021 at 11:20 AM (#6056633)
anderson: there was a season lag between his flameout in the finals and the collapse in his ft% (and, to a different extent, his ftr):
regular season career ft% pre-june '95: 69.6%
1995-1996 season ft%: 69.2%
then 56.7% from the rest of his career (which including the 40% season). his ftr also collapsed that year (he was afraid to go to the line by his own admission, as i recall), though it rebounded to his normal level for two years before collapsing again after he left orlando.
   1302. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: December 08, 2021 at 11:24 AM (#6056635)
not what people are talking about here, but bruce bowen's struggles from the free throw line are absurd. 70% in college (when he wasn't much of a perimeter shooter either), he improved from three as a pro to the point where he led the league in three point percentage in 2002-03 (44.1%). that same year he shot 40.4% from the line (!) and only managed to shoot 57.5% over his 13 nba seasons. (part of this was that he rarely went to the line and i guess it wasn't worth it for him to build out this skill.)
   1303. kubiwan Posted: December 08, 2021 at 11:36 AM (#6056638)
Why is it Oklahoma City isn't getting the same attention and scorn for tanking as The Process Sixers?


OKC posted a .306 winning percentage last year and is at .304 now. That translates to 25 wins in an 82-game season, which I regard as basically run-of-the-mill bad.

The 76ers had consecutive seasons of 19, 18, and 10 wins (and only rebounded to 28 in Year 4). That is historically awful. It is entirely possible the Thunder will have as many wins in 2 years (even with a shortened season last year) as the Sixers had in 3 years.
   1304. spivey 2 Posted: December 08, 2021 at 12:14 PM (#6056651)
The Ringer had an interesting article about how a team's shot quality rank no longer correlates with offensive success. Link.

Related, has anyone read The Midrange Theory yet? I've heard really good things, but my local indie bookstore hasn't fulfilled my order yet.
   1305. spivey 2 Posted: December 08, 2021 at 12:18 PM (#6056652)
Re: 1303

The SRSs that OKC put up last year and this are in the same ballpark as Philadelphia's bad years, that -9 to -10 range. OKC last year also straight up benched good players to be worse, which I think is different from what Philly did. Philadelphia mostly didn't have any worthwhile talent. I think the optics matter, though, which is the big reason why they're treated differently. But I think if OKC misses on top 3 again and runs back another awful tank, I think the questions start to become more prevalent. And SGA may start grumbling too if they stay on the suck train for too long.
   1306. jmurph Posted: December 08, 2021 at 12:22 PM (#6056653)
OKC last year also straight up benched good players to be worse, which I think is different from what Philly did. Philadelphia mostly didn't have any worthwhile talent.

Yeah I'm pretty sure we talked about this a bit at the time, benching Horford was probably worse than anything the Sixers did (on purpose).
   1307. tshipman Posted: December 08, 2021 at 12:27 PM (#6056654)
I think it is accurate that because OKC wins a few more games, people generally ignore the egregious tanking. Also because they're OKC and no one really cares about that franchise.

The Ringer had an interesting article about how a team's shot quality rank no longer correlates with offensive success. Link.


Thanks for this, it's interesting.

One thing that has been an early trend is the collapse in above the break 3p shooting. I think I posted last year about how teams in empty arenas were shooting a ton better at home. That has changed this year, and I think people weren't really prepared for that.
   1308. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: December 08, 2021 at 12:37 PM (#6056657)
On the tank thing, I think trigger event also matters. OKC had George demand out, Westbrook then wanted out, not their fault. Similarly, the Rockets' current tank started with Harden wanting out. The Cavs have tanked both times Lebron left, and don't get scorn for that (although certainly Dan Gilbert getting a parade of #1 picks doesn't play well but that's not tank related).

Whereas Philly, overnight, chose to pivot from a decent team to a purposeful sack of garbage.
   1309. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: December 08, 2021 at 01:59 PM (#6056675)
On the tank thing, I think trigger event also matters. OKC had George demand out, Westbrook then wanted out, not their fault. Similarly, the Rockets' current tank started with Harden wanting out. The Cavs have tanked both times Lebron left, and don't get scorn for that (although certainly Dan Gilbert getting a parade of #1 picks doesn't play well but that's not tank related).

Whereas Philly, overnight, chose to pivot from a decent team to a purposeful sack of garbage.


OKC was 49-33 in '18-19 with Westbrook and 44-28 in '19-20 without Westbrook. I guess it took them a full season to realize they 'needed' to tank to get better? I guess they figured they were stuck in mediocrity mode - good enough to make the playoffs, not good enough to win in the playoffs.
   1310. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: December 08, 2021 at 04:39 PM (#6056712)
1304/spivey: I've had the Midrange Theory for about a week but haven't had time to start it yet. Will likely read it the week after Christmas.
   1311. asinwreck Posted: December 08, 2021 at 04:49 PM (#6056714)
When Billy Donovan and the Thunder announced they were mutually parting ways in September 2020, Sam Presti mentioned he and Donovan sat down at the end of the 2019-20 season to figure out the future. It was widely speculated that Presti told Donovan he wanted to rebuild and Donovan was not interested in sticking around for a teardown.
We had planned to sit down at the end of the season and discuss the best way to move forward for both of us," Thunder executive vice president and general manager Sam Presti said in a statement. "After those discussions, it became apparent that we couldn't provide him the information on the future direction of the team over the next several seasons to give him the level of clarity that he understandably desires at this stage of his career.

"Therefore, we close this chapter and reflect fondly on all that he has given to the team, organization and community. Billy will always have a place in the Thunder family."
   1312. An Athletic in Powderhorn Posted: December 08, 2021 at 06:30 PM (#6056735)
The article doesn't say and I'm not sure how to find this on Cleaning the Glass without subscribing first: where is the line drawn between "short midrange" and "long midrange"? Intuitively, it seems like "short midrange" would be between 3-15 feet or so.
   1313. asinwreck Posted: December 08, 2021 at 08:54 PM (#6056744)
The Rockets have opened up a 20-point lead on the Nets with 7:42 left in the second quarter.

EDIT: And the Nets have closed it to an 8-point gap in 2:20.
   1314. Harlond Posted: December 08, 2021 at 09:22 PM (#6056747)
Cleveland shellacking the Bulls. Cleveland bench outscoring Chicago's by 25-4. And Mobley blocked one of Levine's shots by simply taking it out of Levine's hands at the apex of his jump.

Hornets once again making a game of it against the Sixers without any point guards.
   1315. tshipman Posted: December 08, 2021 at 09:31 PM (#6056748)
The East is really weird. As a conference, the average is much better than in previous years, but the whole conference is somehow a 4 seed.
   1316. spivey 2 Posted: December 08, 2021 at 10:08 PM (#6056749)
Milwaukee losing to Miami without Butler or Bam is pretty bad. A lot of 3pt variance, but still disappointing. Not sure Giannis is 100% since he's come back from the calf injury, and Middleton's had a down year.

Edit: win the oreb battle by 6, TO battle by 2, FTA battle by 15... and still lose by 9. Oof.
   1317. CFBF is Obsessed with Art Deco Posted: December 08, 2021 at 11:54 PM (#6056754)
Hold on. Kenyon Martin has a son and he's playing in the NBA?
   1318. jmurph Posted: December 09, 2021 at 07:48 AM (#6056761)
The East is really weird. As a conference, the average is much better than in previous years, but the whole conference is somehow a 4 seed.

This is very well put and I might even go further, I'm not sure the best teams are even that good. Brooklyn is really unimpressive. The Cavs are currently tops in SRS in the East. You'll be forgiven for not believing the Cavs, Bulls, or Hawks (top 3 in SRS) are actual contenders.

I do think it's reasonable to expect the Bucks to round into shape by the playoffs, but I'm pretty much out on everyone else at the moment.
   1319. asinwreck Posted: December 09, 2021 at 09:43 AM (#6056768)
COVID is hitting the Bulls hard enough that they signed Stanley Johnson with a hardship exemption before the Cleveland game and played Devon Dotson 19 minutes last night. I was surprised they won their first game without DeRozan and not surprised by last night's blowout.

That said, Mobley is a special defender. It will be fun to watch him and Allen grow together.
   1320. spivey 2 Posted: December 09, 2021 at 10:31 AM (#6056779)
I don't know if this is even a hot take anymore, but Cleveland is just a good two-way player or two from being a contender imo.

I'm not even saying it has to be one of the heliocentric guys or even someone on the level of Mikal Bridges.

You put Alex Caruso and Lonzo Ball on this team... they'd be a god damn nightmare.
   1321. CFBF is Obsessed with Art Deco Posted: December 09, 2021 at 10:39 AM (#6056780)
I was going to make a joke about LeBron signing with Cleveland after this season, but apparently his contract extension takes him through 2023.
   1322. asinwreck Posted: December 09, 2021 at 11:20 AM (#6056784)
If Cleveland is willing to gamble on Caris LeVert's health, he could be a terrific fit on that roster.
   1323. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: December 09, 2021 at 11:36 AM (#6056788)
Cleveland shellacking the Bulls. Cleveland bench outscoring Chicago's by 25-4. And Mobley blocked one of Levine's shots by simply taking it out of Levine's hands at the apex of his jump.

Just like IND, CLE is a team that is just built to punish the Bulls with their size. Like asinwreck said, doesn't help the Bulls are also down DeRozan, Caruso, and Green. Mobley looks so ####### special, in a way that even his good stats don't show yet.

I do think it's reasonable to expect the Bucks to round into shape by the playoffs, but I'm pretty much out on everyone else at the moment.

I think last night was the first time the Bucks lost this year when Giannis/Jrue/Middleton all played (11-0 going into the game), and they've been without Lopez all year - though losing to MIA without Bam isn't a positive sign.

In addition to MIL, if BKN and PHI can do something to their rosters with Kyrie/Simmons things, they're back up top and are probably actual contenders. But as presently constructed, it's hard to separate out BKN and PHI from the MIA/CHI/CLE/ATL* group and which teams win individual series will be very matchup based.

*As suspected, WSH's underlying numbers have probably removed them from that bunch. Maybe CHA belongs in that group too, or maybe BOS also gets back there. But yeah, does feel like there's at least 5-7 4 seeds in the East this year. Or I guess even the ICNICICS.
   1324. tshipman Posted: December 09, 2021 at 12:13 PM (#6056790)
Brooklyn is really unimpressive.


Fun? Fact: Brooklyn's entire positive point differential is built on 3p luck. Their 3p% allowed of 30.5% is driving their +3 net rating. They give up so many 3s (37 per game, 20th in NBA) that if opponents had hit a league average rate, they would have a negative point differential.

I don't know if this is even a hot take anymore, but Cleveland is just a good two-way player or two from being a contender imo.


They have a pretty large weak spot with Okoro as their 5th starter. If you could replace him with ... Will Barton or someone, they could realistically make the conference finals.
   1325. tshipman Posted: December 09, 2021 at 12:41 PM (#6056794)
Interesting tidbit from a recent podcast with Duncan and Ben Taylor:

FTs are down for smalls, but slightly up for bigs, illustrating the impact of the rules changes.
   1326. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: December 09, 2021 at 01:08 PM (#6056796)
That's good to hear. I'd love to see the return of a post-up big or two, if only for the novelty.
   1327. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: December 09, 2021 at 01:38 PM (#6056798)
Derrick Jones Jr now to the COVID list for the Bulls - that's the 5th guy. The Bulls supposedly are 100% vaccinated too. Geez.

---

Rick Carlisle also out for the Pacers. Things are starting to get close to being out of hand...
   1328. Fourth True Outcome Posted: December 09, 2021 at 01:44 PM (#6056799)
I thought for a second you meant Carlisle had been fired, which stunned me.
   1329. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: December 09, 2021 at 08:32 PM (#6056850)
LeBron looks really good physically in the first quarter. Driving to the basket and very active defensively.
   1330. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: December 09, 2021 at 09:15 PM (#6056854)
The Lakers biggest problem is their sloppiness with the ball. 14 turnovers. LeBron has been the worst offender today. A lot of unforced errors. It has been a really big problem this season.
   1331. PJ Martinez Posted: December 09, 2021 at 09:56 PM (#6056858)
Speaking of the Lakers, has anybody linked to this yet?
   1332. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: December 09, 2021 at 10:37 PM (#6056863)
Speaking of the Lakers, has anybody linked to this yet?

That might be the only thing less watchable than the Lakers right now.

The Lakers with the brutal loss today. They only score 66 points after the first quarter. They lost to a Grizzlie team that was on the second game of a B2B, with Morant.

Russ was brutal today. 6 TOs, shot a poor free throw percentages, really ugly misses.

LeBron was looking really spry in the first quarter although he also had way too many turnovers and wasn't a big factor in 4th quarter.

Lakers are turning the ball over way too much and didn't rebound well. 22 turnovers and gave up 14 offensive rebounds lead to them having 16 few shot attempts than the Grizzlies.

Honestly, it is the turnovers for this team. They are going to score but their biggest problem is turnovers which also hurts the defense.

Really ugly game.
   1333. GregF Posted: December 09, 2021 at 11:29 PM (#6056868)
Re: #1309, note that OKC’s 44-28 season was led by Chris Paul, who also wanted out of town at the earliest opportunity. It’s hard to see how they’d have reached even mediocrity while accommodating his request - and hard to blame them for tearing down and rebuilding through the draft when vets don’t want to play there.
   1334. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: December 09, 2021 at 11:59 PM (#6056869)
Jazz with probably their best win of the season in Philly. They're def looking better and the offense is still historically great. Still skeptical of them as in top tier with GSW and PHO unless they can add another good switchy defender
   1335. Moeball Posted: December 10, 2021 at 03:20 AM (#6056874)
With Utah win @ PHI I believe West is now 68-64 against East and top 3 records in the league are all in the West. The way the season started it looked like the East had improved and finally was going to be competitive this season but now it looks like the West is starting to assert their dominance again for the umpteenth year in a row (similar to how AL owns the NL in MLB these days). But I don't really understand why this happens every year. Do the West teams just shoot better? Or play better defense? Or both? It also didn't look good with Toronto losing at home to OKC and the Nets losing to HOU.
   1336. spivey 2 Posted: December 10, 2021 at 08:58 AM (#6056880)
I think you're editorializing the data.

The cumulative SRS for the West is -0.49. East is -0.03. Not sure why it's not zero sum, but anyways, it's close enough.

Even removing the bottom 2 teams in each conference (on SRS rather than record), which is ORL, DET, OKC, and HOU doesn't move the needle. ORL and DET have actually been worse since Houston went on this little streak. The conferences seem to be on the whole about even, and the East being much, much deeper (10 teams with positive SRS in East). That's what's unique about this year. The last couple of years the teams at the top of the East have been just as good if not better than the West, but the conference was very shaky outside that top group.

I don't think there's much to suggest other than the conferences have been even. And even at the top, I think a lot of folks still view as Brooklyn and Milwaukee as right there with Golden State as the inner circle of contenders, despite the record/SRS.

Why it's happened historically, my guess is it's some combination of:
- West randomly having better front offices and/or hitting on generational players
- East glamour markets (Chicago, NYK) not being managed well
- More warm weather markets in West
- West being so good/competitive brings out best in other teams
   1337. DCA Posted: December 10, 2021 at 10:12 AM (#6056882)
Not sure why it's not zero sum, but anyways, it's close enough.

Teams have played different number of games.
   1338. DCA Posted: December 10, 2021 at 10:20 AM (#6056883)
By SRS, there really appear to be 4 distinct tiers of team this year:

The top tier (3, all West: GSW, Suns, Jazz)
Solid playoff teams (6, all East: Nets, Bulls, Bucks, Heat, Cavs, Hawks)
Fringe playoff/fodder (16 teams)
Garbage (5: Magic, Pistons, OKC, Rockets, Pels)

That feels about right, subjectively, allowing that injuries are a big part of why some teams are where they are. What's interesting is that all the great teams are in the West, and all the good teams are in the East. The mediocre and bad teams are spread more or less evenly across the rest of both conferences.
   1339. tshipman Posted: December 10, 2021 at 12:08 PM (#6056888)
I don't think there's much to suggest other than the conferences have been even. And even at the top, I think a lot of folks still view as Brooklyn and Milwaukee as right there with Golden State as the inner circle of contenders, despite the record/SRS.


I agree with the rest of your post, I just don't think you can make a good case that Brooklyn is actually a good team. They've actually been healthy, gotten tremendous shooting luck, and Brooklyn is still just +4 with KD and Harden on the court.
   1340. spivey 2 Posted: December 10, 2021 at 02:32 PM (#6056909)
I think the best case for Brooklyn is that betting odds are one of the best indicators we have of not just perceived team quality but actual team quality, and they're still rated very highly there.
   1341. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: December 10, 2021 at 02:34 PM (#6056911)
I think it's mostly just people still thinking Kyrie is gonna play for them this season.
   1342. asinwreck Posted: December 10, 2021 at 03:36 PM (#6056915)
And that Harden will round into shape as the season progresses. He could, but he is currently a shadow of the playmaker and finisher he was last year before the hamstring injury.

Durant's been brilliant, Aldridge and Mills have been great pickups, and the rest of the roster has underwhelmed.
   1343. spivey Posted: December 10, 2021 at 04:32 PM (#6056924)
Sources saying Steve Kerr named next Team USA coach, will do 23 World Cup and 24 Olympics.
   1344. tshipman Posted: December 10, 2021 at 09:24 PM (#6056949)
When I think about how much better the Lakers would be with Garrison Matthews instead of Avery Bradley, it makes me quite annoyed.
   1345. spivey 2 Posted: December 10, 2021 at 09:30 PM (#6056950)
1342: One other guy I've been impressed by is James Johnson. He's bounced around the league so much I kind of just thought he was washed, but he's a solid player still.
   1346. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: December 10, 2021 at 09:44 PM (#6056952)
1342: One other guy I've been impressed by is James Johnson. He's bounced around the league so much I kind of just thought he was washed, but he's a solid player still.
nothing but love for james johnson.
   1347. asinwreck Posted: December 10, 2021 at 09:48 PM (#6056953)
As I read this, Johnson just had a nice finish off a Harden pass. Nic Claxton is also having a good game as he ramps up his minutes after being out with mono most of the season.
   1348. spivey 2 Posted: December 10, 2021 at 09:55 PM (#6056954)
Kevin ####### Durant just clowned the city of Atlanta on that little 30 second stretch.
   1349. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: December 10, 2021 at 09:58 PM (#6056955)
Everyone remember Bing Bong Day from back in October?
   1350. spivey 2 Posted: December 10, 2021 at 10:04 PM (#6056956)
Cleveland with another monster performance tonight. It'll be interesting to see what they do with Sexton. I don't think it's an accident they're doing so well without him. I'd offer him a Jordan Clarkson type role/money, and if he declines it, whatever. I think someone probably gives him 4/60+ though.

James Johnson stories were good, until my wife googled him and saw he was arrested for domestic abuse. So maybe not quite nothing but love.
   1351. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: December 10, 2021 at 10:07 PM (#6056957)
Wovles laying another egg. Ugh.
   1352. Howie Menckel Posted: December 10, 2021 at 10:08 PM (#6056958)
interesting challenge out there: 4 biggest U.S. states (CA, FL, TX, NY) vs all other comers - who wins NBA title?

Side A: Warriors, Nets, Lakers, Heat, Clippers, Mavericks, Knicks (Rockets, Spurs, Kings, Magic)

Side B: Suns, Jazz, Bucks, Bulls, Wizards, Grizzlies, Cavaliers, 76ers, Hornets, Hawks, Celtics, Nuggets, Raptors (Timberwolves, Pacers, Trail Blazers, Thunder, Pelicans, Pistons)

(should have more teams in parentheses)

which side would you choose as the better play?
   1353. Mike A Posted: December 10, 2021 at 10:12 PM (#6056960)
I just want the Hawks to finally get healthy so I don't have to see Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot play 31 minutes ever again. His missed open layup(s) just killed all momentum.

So frustrating to throw away another 4th quarter.
   1354. tshipman Posted: December 10, 2021 at 10:28 PM (#6056962)
interesting challenge out there: 4 biggest U.S. states (CA, FL, TX, NY) vs all other comers - who wins NBA title?

Side A: Warriors, Nets, Lakers, Heat, Clippers, Mavericks, Knicks (Rockets, Spurs, Kings, Magic)

Side B: Suns, Jazz, Bucks, Bulls, Wizards, Grizzlies, Cavaliers, 76ers, Hornets, Hawks, Celtics, Nuggets, Raptors (Timberwolves, Pacers, Trail Blazers, Thunder, Pelicans, Pistons)


Since the merger, you're looking at a record of 25 titles for side A and 20 titles for side B.

The last 25 years are much more one sided--18 to 7.
   1355. Howie Menckel Posted: December 10, 2021 at 11:19 PM (#6056967)
thanks.

I mean this season, which side feels more likely to win. I think it's pretty close, but at this point you guys follow the league more closely than I do now - hence the query.
   1356. Booey Posted: December 10, 2021 at 11:21 PM (#6056969)
In the post-Jordan era, California and Texas teams (specifically the Lakers, Warriors, Spurs, and Mavs) have won the West in 21/23 seasons. The only exceptions were the 2012 Thunder and last years Suns.
   1357. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: December 11, 2021 at 01:47 AM (#6056983)
Russell Westbrook has now played 15 games with LeBron:

16.7 ppg/8.1 apg/6.8 rpg/1.0 spg/0.3 bpg/3.7 topg. He is shooting .448/.280/.622. He's not shooting well from 3 but he's not shooting a lot of them with LBJ in the lineup (3.3 pg) and the turnovers aren't too bad. That's not really bad overall from the "third star".
   1358. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: December 11, 2021 at 01:58 PM (#6057011)
think a lot of folks still view as Brooklyn and Milwaukee as right there with Golden State as the inner circle of contenders, despite the record/SRS.


I am in this group. With all the variables of injury, schedule, Irving, rest etc. I think Brooklyn and Milwaukee should be considered serious contenders, especially, obviously, Milwaukee. They won last year and Antetokounmpo is in his prime. At the moment one of BKN/MIL vs. one of GS/PHX is the most likely outcome. The variables in terms of actual individual guys are what happens with:

Irving
Leonard
Lillard
Thompson

Where those guys land in terms of availability in three cases and location in one could have a real impact on the championship picture.

I think Utah gets bagged on a bit too much, but I think you have to put them at the top of the second tier rather than in the first one.
   1359. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: December 11, 2021 at 04:43 PM (#6057026)
Marc Stein @TheSteinLine
Pelicans statement on Zion Williamson: “After experiencing persistent soreness in his right foot ... (imaging) showed a regression in the bone healing of his fifth metatarsal." Williamson's training will be reduced for an extended period "for further bone healing," team says.


This sucks. And you never know with health, but it's hard to see Zion at this weight and this young already with significant foot problems and think he's gonna have a long career.
   1360. asinwreck Posted: December 11, 2021 at 05:02 PM (#6057029)
The name "Greg Oden" looms.

In other health news, the Bulls' COVID outbreak just extended to Ayo Dosunmo and the recently-signed Stanley Johnson. Really wonder if we're going to see some canceled games soon.
   1361. . . . . . . Posted: December 11, 2021 at 05:25 PM (#6057030)
Marc Stein @TheSteinLine
Pelicans statement on Zion Williamson: “After experiencing persistent soreness in his right foot ... (imaging) showed a regression in the bone healing of his fifth metatarsal." Williamson's training will be reduced for an extended period "for further bone healing," team says.


This sucks. And you never know with health, but it's hard to see Zion at this weight and this young already with significant foot problems and think he's gonna have a long career.


The body you have used to jump with is too fat. To obtain a special Greg Oden jersey, please mash the folding chair on the bench with your fat ass now.
   1362. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: December 11, 2021 at 09:18 PM (#6057048)
The name "Greg Oden" looms.
it seems more akin to what joel embiid (and to a lesser extent, ben simmons) went through. these aren't chronic issues; they're a series of acute injuries and recurrences.

he'll be fine...as long as he doesn't eat himself out of the league.
   1363. spivey 2 Posted: December 11, 2021 at 09:31 PM (#6057049)
I know he's just a finisher of plays, but Jarrett Allen is averaging 17.3 points a game on .723 TS%, which is god damn ridiculous.
   1364. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: December 11, 2021 at 09:44 PM (#6057050)
In addition to the 7 guys out with covid, the bulls are also without their tv and radio color guys. The NBA really should consider a postponement or 5.

So it's not really a surprise the Heat are running the Bulls off the court....except the Heat are also decimated by injuries.
   1365. spivey 2 Posted: December 11, 2021 at 10:09 PM (#6057052)
If Omicron is really as transmissable as it seems like it might be, I think the sports world is going to be forced to make some adjustments. Hopefully it's as mild as is hoped, though.
   1366. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: December 11, 2021 at 10:52 PM (#6057054)
you can't overturn this.

...and yet...
   1367. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: December 12, 2021 at 12:34 PM (#6057080)
Zach Lavine and troy Brown Jr both in protocol today. That's 9 players and 2 announcers. Time to pause the bulls season at least.
   1368. tshipman Posted: December 12, 2021 at 12:52 PM (#6057083)
Michael Jeffrey Jordan never entered COVID protocols in his whole career. Just another sign that today's NBA "Stars" don't have what it takes.
   1369. Harlond Posted: December 12, 2021 at 12:57 PM (#6057084)
Michael Jeffrey Jordan never entered COVID protocols in his whole career. Just another sign that today's NBA "Stars" don't have what it takes.
But how many people did he literally sicken during the Flu Game. Yesterday's star I suppose must answer for that.
   1370. tshipman Posted: December 12, 2021 at 01:48 PM (#6057089)
But how many people did he literally sicken during the Flu Game. Yesterday's star I suppose must answer for that.


Are hangovers contagious? I suppose in one sense they are.

***

To be serious, the NBA's COVID protocols are clearly not working anymore. Delta and Omicron are too contagious, and boosters are not prevalent enough.

This represents a serious problem for the NBA. The responsible thing to do is to shut down the league again. There is approximately 0.0% chance that happens.

They could modify the COVID protocols to make them more effective, but they have huge issues with the players buying in to that. Players at this point don't see COVID as a serious issue, just a temporary inconvenience.

The most likely outcome is to just weaken the COVID protocols so that asymptomatic players can still play.
   1371. asinwreck Posted: December 12, 2021 at 02:06 PM (#6057090)
K.C. Johnson @KCJHoop
Late Saturday, Nikola Vucevic said “most players” had received booster shots. Bulls also were fully vaccinated as of early November.

Billy Donovan said some players are asymptomatic.

This could be a bumpy winter for the league.
   1372. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: December 12, 2021 at 04:13 PM (#6057098)
Bulls also were fully vaccinated as of early November.


I sometimes wonder about whether this is actually true, with all teams, not just Chicago.

As a Lakers fan, I am all for a 4-5 week break and then a return to The Bubble.
   1373. spivey 2 Posted: December 12, 2021 at 04:33 PM (#6057100)
I think taking precautions or pausing while we learn more about omicron is reasonable, but given how transmissable delta and omicron are we'll be living with COVID the rest of our lives. Given that, I think shutdowns or bubbles just aren't realistic.

I think one thing I would be open to is being more flexible with canceled games and a level of comfort that all teams may not have to play 82 games.
   1374. An Athletic in Powderhorn Posted: December 12, 2021 at 05:42 PM (#6057106)
16.7 ppg/8.1 apg/6.8 rpg/1.0 spg/0.3 bpg/3.7 topg. He is shooting .448/.280/.622. He's not shooting well from 3 but he's not shooting a lot of them with LBJ in the lineup (3.3 pg) and the turnovers aren't too bad. That's not really bad overall from the "third star".
That efficiency is really bad, IMO. His playmaking numbers look good. How's his defense? I haven't watched him live very often.
   1375. An Athletic in Powderhorn Posted: December 12, 2021 at 05:54 PM (#6057108)
Different subject. It's not a major concern, but the eye test backs up the numbers in suggesting that Steph's rim-finishing ability is in decline. That's not a major part of his game, but if you're looking for holes in Golden State's armor, that's one. Elite offensive bigs may be another. Embiid didn't torch them by any means, but with all their attention focused on him they still couldn't keep him off the line. They haven't faced Jokic yet. Once they do, I'll have a better idea if I should be worried.
   1376. spivey 2 Posted: December 12, 2021 at 06:19 PM (#6057113)
I think the teams with amazing offensive bigs (unless you count Giannis in this) mostly are so weak elsewhere that I don't think they are big threats to Golden State. But I think the big way to beat them will be: possessions, free throws, and in the paint. The paint is tough because with their offense right now they're in the top 3 in offensive and defensive 2pt%. Maybe a locked in defense stops a lot of their "cheap" layups, but I believe in their defensive rim protection. Their gang rebounding is working really well.

In their 2 matchups with Phoenix, I am generally more bullish on Golden State. I think combining the 2 games, they pretty comfortably won the possession battle. They outrebounded Phoenix in both.

I think I'm now at a point where I consider Golden State the favorites.
   1377. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: December 12, 2021 at 06:19 PM (#6057114)
Different subject. It's not a major concern, but the eye test backs up the numbers in suggesting that Steph's rim-finishing ability is in decline. That's not a major part of his game, but if you're looking for holes in Golden State's armor, that's one. Elite offensive bigs may be another. Embiid didn't torch them by any means, but with all their attention focused on him they still couldn't keep him off the line. They haven't faced Jokic yet. Once they do, I'll have a better idea if I should be worried.
on a completely unrelated note:

Rich Hoffman @rich_hofmann
How Matisse Thybulle and the Sixers slowed down Steph Curry for a night: theathletic.com/3011180
Lauren Rosen @LaurenMRosen
Steve Kerr on @Matisse Thybulle guarding Steph Curry tonight: "He harassed [Steph] really well.. I give Thybulle credit. He was fantastic defensively. He's a rare combination of length and athleticism and brains. He did as good a job on Steph as anybody I've seen in a long time."
Kyle Neubeck @KyleNeubeck
Thybulle asked what allowed him to succeed against Steph Curry defensively tonight. “Uh, playing hard?”
Noah Levick @NoahLevick
Joel Embiid said he thinks Matisse Thybulle is “probably the best perimeter defender in the league” and has a chance to win Defensive Player of the Year.
Ky Carlin @Ky_Carlin
Joel Embiid said he doesn’t understand why NBA teams play zone. He thinks it’s a college thing. #Sixers
   1378. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: December 12, 2021 at 11:04 PM (#6057133)
LBJ is still a dominant force physically.
   1379. asinwreck Posted: December 13, 2021 at 08:40 AM (#6057144)
Chicago Tribune Sports @ChicagoSports
The Bulls' COVID-19 outbreak began on Dec. 1 with Coby White.

Since then, it's been at least 1 player every 2 days: Green (Dec. 3); DeRozan (Dec. 5); Thomas (Tuesday); Jones Jr. (Thursday); Dosunmu and Johnson (Saturday); and now LaVine and Brown Jr.
Bulls Talk @NBCSBulls
Not playing might be a good health & safety protocol
Bobby Marks @BobbyMarks42
I think we might be at the point of hitting the pause button with Chicago.
Daniel Greenberg @ChiSportUpdates
The Chicago Bulls have asked the NBA to postpone their game on Tuesday against the Detroit Pistons due to so many players being out because of COVID but there has been no action by the league and they will likely have to play that game, per @KCJHoop.
   1380. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: December 13, 2021 at 09:49 AM (#6057159)
Just make the Pistons forfeit the Tuesday game.
   1381. asinwreck Posted: December 13, 2021 at 09:57 AM (#6057160)
In hockey, the NHL has postponed the Blackhawks-Flames game in Chicago tonight because six Flames players and a staffer tested positive. Chicago media understandably is comparing that situation to the NBA's inaction on the Bulls' outbreak.
   1382. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: December 13, 2021 at 11:04 AM (#6057165)
Alize Johnson just became the 10th Bulls player in the protocols.

There's a chance White and Green can clear in time to play tomorrow, otherwise the Bulls currently only have 8 active players. But really, the league should postpone some games because surely the Bulls have already spread this to other teams.

The Bulls' COVID-19 outbreak began on Dec. 1 with Coby White.

Vuc had it even before White. But that was earlier in November, so unrelated to this outbreak.
   1383. asinwreck Posted: December 13, 2021 at 11:53 AM (#6057176)
S E V E N @TimAnderson7
@chicagobulls Eyes you know we locked out right.. holla at me gang! #imreadyBasketball
   1384. CFBF is Obsessed with Art Deco Posted: December 13, 2021 at 12:00 PM (#6057177)
Think it's time for Moses to lace up the sneakers and hit the court. The Bulls need some bodies. Plus, it would be a pretty hilarious middle finger to the league office.
   1385. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: December 13, 2021 at 01:26 PM (#6057189)
Great piece on Curry as he's on the precipice of the all-time 3's record. It's on the Athletic, so paywalled. What a revolutionary player. He's probably solidly one of the 20 best players of all-time by now.
   1386. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: December 13, 2021 at 01:27 PM (#6057190)
Moses has been dead for over 3000 years. He ain't walking through that door.
   1387. tshipman Posted: December 13, 2021 at 01:35 PM (#6057194)
Moses has been dead for over 3000 years. He ain't walking through that door.


"Moses splits the defenders like they're the Red Sea! He elevates like a plague of locusts!"
   1388. bob gee Posted: December 13, 2021 at 01:44 PM (#6057197)
Bulls next two games have been postponed.
   1389. asinwreck Posted: December 13, 2021 at 01:48 PM (#6057199)

Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
The Chicago Department of Public Health had concerns about the Bulls continuing to play this week, and that played a part in the NBA decision, sources tell ESPN.
   1390. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: December 13, 2021 at 02:57 PM (#6057212)
Glad the league did the right thing here. By that, I'm talking more about not asking me to play and less about postponing the games.
   1391. asinwreck Posted: December 13, 2021 at 04:14 PM (#6057223)
Now we'll never know if a Moses-Tim Anderson backcourt could approach the +/- numbers some of the Thunder put up against Memphis.
   1392. asinwreck Posted: December 13, 2021 at 04:59 PM (#6057231)
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
Brooklyn Nets F Paul Millsap has entered the league's Covid protocol, sources tell
@malika_andrews and me.
   1393. spivey Posted: December 13, 2021 at 09:31 PM (#6057270)
Indiana really gave this game away.

I go back and forth between if Curry just flops on every 3 or if people run into him on every 3 because he's Steph Curry. But he certainly crumples as much as anyone in the NBA.

Is LeVert actually good at basketball? I've never particularuly understood what people liked about his game.
   1394. tshipman Posted: December 13, 2021 at 10:42 PM (#6057276)
I go back and forth between if Curry just flops on every 3 or if people run into him on every 3 because he's Steph Curry. But he certainly crumples as much as anyone in the NBA.


This is definitely a "thing." Curry defenders will say that it's something he's trained to reduce his risk of injury to his ankles. I dunno, seems definitely like he doesn't exactly *mind* getting the FTs from it.

He has really been pressing with being close to this record. He's one away now, I think.
   1395. Mike A Posted: December 13, 2021 at 10:55 PM (#6057279)
Another day, another Hawks meltdown, giving up 44 in the 4th to the Rockets(!?) to somehow lose a game they were winning by 18 or 19 or something. I really can't figure this team out.

Trae, Collins, and Capela are all in the top 50 in EPM, so seems no serious issues there. The rest of the team, however, has been pretty awful - particularly on defense. 'Tis weird, and injuries haven't helped, but it's hard not to look at coaching.
   1396. Fourth True Outcome Posted: December 13, 2021 at 10:57 PM (#6057280)
Funny how having Jaylen Brown playing opens up things for Jayson Tatum, who has been (finally) hitting his shots. Middleton left with what was eventually reported to be a hyperextended knee; hope that doesn't linger. Cs should start thinking about starting Grant Williams over Al Horford, who isn't hitting 3s like he was at the start of the season and is starting to look his age.
   1397. jmurph Posted: December 14, 2021 at 10:34 AM (#6057315)
Yeah surprising and nice win from the Celtics over the Bucks. Yes the Bucks lost Middleton, but I think Boston was up 6-8ish at the time of that anyway, so I don't want to credit it entirely to that (also they shot like crazy from 3, though several of those came late to make it look like a blowout).

It's a super basic point, but when the ball moves they obviously look much better: they're 19th in the league in assists per game with 22.9, and last night they had 31.
   1398. asinwreck Posted: December 14, 2021 at 10:55 AM (#6057318)
I suspect the Bulls' postponements this week will not be the only schedule alterations this month. The league office is probably fretting quite a bit about the Christmas Day schedule.
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
LaMarcus Aldridge, DeAndre Bembry, Jevon Carter and James Johnson join Paul Millsap in Covid protocols for the Nets now, team says.
   1399. asinwreck Posted: December 14, 2021 at 01:01 PM (#6057333)
Dan Woike @DanWoikeSports
The Lakers have cancelled practice today, and a team spokesperson confirms that it’s related to the league’s health and safety protocols. More details to come.
   1400. asinwreck Posted: December 14, 2021 at 01:01 PM (#6057334)
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