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Friday, October 15, 2021

NBA 2021-2022 Season Thread

I estimate there are maybe 10-12 Primates left on this site, and none of us want to post this thread.

Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: October 15, 2021 at 11:39 AM | 4178 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: get me out of philly, nba, off top

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   2001. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: January 20, 2022 at 11:49 AM (#6061704)
Flip
   2002. tshipman Posted: January 20, 2022 at 12:08 PM (#6061707)
Silver needs to suspend/fine the Nets coach into the stone age. Minimum 20 game suspension.
   2003. jmurph Posted: January 20, 2022 at 12:28 PM (#6061711)
[1998] Well, for three of their four head coaches, this would be perfectly legal.

This is nicely done.
   2004. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: January 20, 2022 at 01:13 PM (#6061716)
Silver needs to suspend/fine the Nets coach into the stone age. Minimum 20 game suspension.
i see no reason to be that lenient.

i'm not saying this guy's career in basketball should be destroyed, but he should never be allowed courtside at an NBA game again. he can go coach in college, or at some high school, or if the nets really like him, they can make him a scout or something, but the idea that someone on the bench would do this is beyond the pale, and i see no reason to treat him better than a random fan who would do the same thing.
   2005. spivey Posted: January 20, 2022 at 01:24 PM (#6061719)
No way the coach gets punished that bad. Coach probably thought the ball was coming into the bench so tried to do it for safety reasons. My guess is he gets suspended for a game or two.

But what's absurd is there is a ref right there, and he missed it. It led to a turnover, and Brooklyn won by 1 point. That ref should get a 20 game suspension.
   2006. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 20, 2022 at 01:26 PM (#6061720)
Not that replay is the answer to everything, but couldn't - shouldn't - they have reviewed that and given the Nets bench at least a technical? Actually, what would the penalty be if the ref did see it?
   2007. jmurph Posted: January 20, 2022 at 01:28 PM (#6061721)
Yeah I'm with spivey, it's not that big of a deal. The refs should have caught it and fixed it immediately (I assume that's a technical? Just guessing).

Coke to Moses
   2008. tshipman Posted: January 20, 2022 at 01:41 PM (#6061722)
Various sources online have said that it should have been a dead ball and a T.

It's not reviewable, so that's not an option.

My thing is that if it was inadvertent, the coach should have told the ref that he touched it. Kuzma pointed at him immediately, and the coach just denied it. You can't reach out onto the court and touch the ball in play.
   2009. tshipman Posted: January 20, 2022 at 01:47 PM (#6061725)
I think maybe the replay would be helpful?

I agree that if it looked like the ball were coming into the stands it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but here the coach reaches onto the court to touch the ball.

Check the angle at 20 seconds.
   2010. jmurph Posted: January 20, 2022 at 01:49 PM (#6061727)
The ref is like 6 feet away, how the hell did he miss that?
   2011. asinwreck Posted: January 20, 2022 at 01:50 PM (#6061728)
Per the report in #1997 on the last page, Lonzo Ball has indeed opted for knee surgery and will be out 6-8 weeks. Coming after Alex Caruso's layoff, the fates are conspiring to give Ayo Dosunmu starter's minutes over an extended stretch.
   2012. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: January 20, 2022 at 01:50 PM (#6061729)
It's not reviewable, so that's not an option.


Why isn't it reviewable? Isn't this "who did the ball go out of bounds off of"?
   2013. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 20, 2022 at 01:53 PM (#6061731)
It's not reviewable, so that's not an option.

Well that's just stupid. There's probably a number of things that are technically unreviewable because they haven't been explicitly listed as reviewable - which I assume is the case here because why you would spell this very unlikely scenario out - which is a stupid way to design a rule. It's not that I think they should add this type of play to the reviewable list as much as make a list of specifically unreviewable plays so that when something new comes up the refs have the option to review and get something like this right. It also shouldn't be considered a coach's challenge, just like reviews for flagrants aren't.

Also, I agree intent is clear here, so the coach should face some sort of punishment for interfering with the game like this. And the league should consider some rules about who can and can't stand up on the sidelines, plus the refs should do a better job keeping the area closest to the court clear.
   2014. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 20, 2022 at 01:55 PM (#6061732)
The ref is like 6 feet away, how the hell did he miss that?

He may be screened by Nash or some of the other coaches.
   2015. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 20, 2022 at 02:06 PM (#6061737)
Per the report in #1997 on the last page, Lonzo Ball has indeed opted for knee surgery and will be out 6-8 weeks. Coming after Alex Caruso's layoff, the fates are conspiring to give Ayo Dosunmu starter's minutes over an extended stretch.

That blows, and puts his timeline to return much closer to the end of the year. That's another 20+ games he'll miss. Oof. Here's hoping Ayo is up for it (and he should start over Coby, who probably is less likely to be traded now unless the Bulls also get a PG back).
   2016. asinwreck Posted: January 20, 2022 at 02:15 PM (#6061743)
My guess on the Bulls is that they won't make any major trades in-season, but will work the phones to see what buyout possibilities of vets may be out there. (Related, what kind of collusion might the front office be investigated over in terms of asking opposing players to get bought out of their contracts? That has to happen every year, doesn't it?)
   2017. epoc Posted: January 20, 2022 at 02:22 PM (#6061746)
The ref is like 6 feet away, how the hell did he miss that?


The officiating in that game was laughably bad. This was the most absurd (non-)call, but there were plenty of really obvious groaners. Aside from personal foul stuff, which is always a crapshoot, I specifically remember a kick ball and self-pass that were obvious in real time and weren't called, as well as a situation where a OReb/clock reset was reversed to an airball/shot-clock violation. That one wasn't so obvious in real time, but it was obvious on replay, and it was pretty bizarre that the refs took it upon themselves to reverse their initial call only to get it wrong. There was also a situation where they reversed a foul call on replay after a coach's challenge, which was pretty ridiculous because it was a clear foul, they looked at the replay, and then they reversed their own decision to make the obviously wrong call.

At the beginning of the season, I was having more fun as an NBA viewer than I've had in a long time, mostly I think because of the new standards for officiating offense-initiated contact, but Covid has absolutely tanked the on-court product, both in terms of level of play and quality of officiating.
   2018. spivey Posted: January 20, 2022 at 02:48 PM (#6061755)
Old man yelling at cloud: I hope this event gets the league to crackdown on how close guys are to the court. I feel like it's a matter of time before a star player in the corner shoots a fadeaway, sprains their ankle on someone who is either on the court or unnecessarily close to it, and it impacts the season. Basically a Kawhi, but even more preventable. I'm surprised it hasn't happened already, or maybe it has and I just don't remember.
   2019. asinwreck Posted: January 20, 2022 at 02:59 PM (#6061759)
   2020. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: January 20, 2022 at 02:59 PM (#6061760)
Why isn't it reviewable? Isn't this "who did the ball go out of bounds off of"?


In that tweet, the ball didn't actually go out of bounds. It is stupid that it was allowed to stand, though.
   2021. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: January 20, 2022 at 03:09 PM (#6061763)
Does Westbrook just have too much clout to move him to a 6th man? That seems like the best on-court solution. Vogel is fighting for his job, is Russ just being protected by LeBron or the front office?
   2022. spivey Posted: January 20, 2022 at 03:14 PM (#6061765)
Re: 2020
I was referring to person on the bench. But sure, fans too.
   2023. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: January 20, 2022 at 06:59 PM (#6061783)
Derek Bodner @DerekBodnerNBA
"I would implore people to ignore Ballsack dot com." .@Daryl Morey, with no context.
   2024. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 20, 2022 at 08:35 PM (#6061795)
Seth Rosenthal @seth_rosenthal
Walt Frazier just referenced the Butt Fumble but called it “The Old Butt Trick"


---

Shams Charania @ShamsCharania
Nets assistant coach David Vanterpool has been fined $10,000 and the Nets’ organization has been fined $25,000 for Vanterpool interfering with live play on Wednesday night.


Hmmm

---

Shams Charania @ShamsCharania
Forward Paul Millsap and the Brooklyn Nets have agreed to find the four-time All-Star a new team where he can have a greater contribution, sources tell @TheAthletic@Stadium.


Shams Charania @ShamsCharania
Millsap, 36, has played in only two of the Nets‘ last 17 games. He chose among Nets, Bulls and Warriors in free agency last offseason.

K.C. Johnson @KCJHoop
Was told Bulls finished close second in Millsap sweepstakes when he chose Nets.


Not sure how much he has left, but the Bulls are desperate for a 4 and there's the Denver connection. I'm honestly not sure who gets the boot now since Thomas and McKinnie have been converted from 2 way/hardship contracts respectively. Both are playing now, but that's really only cause of injuries. I think getting Malcolm Hill (who I think might have a role/future worth exploring) on a 2 way might make McKinnie more expendable.
   2025. spivey Posted: January 20, 2022 at 10:00 PM (#6061804)
Ayton's been good this year, but the success of his backups really do make me think he's not worth a max. They are a team that is so solid at every possession, it really puts their centers in a position to be successful. His ability to hit that little jump hook is a nice option for the playoffs, to be sure. I'm sure he still gets at least near max. But hell, Middleton and Jrue didn't get the max, though they got close. They're both way better than Ayton (imo). John Collins I think I like more than Ayton, and he only got 25mil/year.
   2026. CFBF is Obsessed with Art Deco Posted: January 21, 2022 at 12:01 AM (#6061812)
Chandler Parsons has officially retired.
   2027. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: January 21, 2022 at 01:32 AM (#6061814)
Chandler Parsons has officially retired.
chase budinger isn't walking through that door.
   2028. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 21, 2022 at 08:16 AM (#6061819)
Not sure how much he has left, but the Bulls are desperate for a 4 and there's the Denver connection.


As far as I know, there isn't much connection at all, but the Wolves have been desperate for help at the 4 for a long while now.
   2029. asinwreck Posted: January 21, 2022 at 09:09 AM (#6061824)
Once the Nets brought back Aldridge, it was hard to see where Millsap would get minutes, and he's been away from the team for most of the past month for what was reported as personal reasons. He's a gamble worth taking for a team needing help at the 4. It would be amusing if that team was the Bulls, given that Chicago was briefly home to Alize Johnson after the Nets cut him to make room for Millsap.

What kind of deal makes the most sense for Brooklyn? Millsap is on a minimum deal, so matching salaries probably won't bring back a rotation player, and taking back salary is going to be expensive for the Nets as they are deep into the tax.
   2030. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 21, 2022 at 10:44 AM (#6061829)
The Bulls have a TPE for $5mil, so maybe they can get a 2nd from the Nets to just take Millsap off their hands. Or they just waive him/buy him out. Save more money by getting him off their books.

Ayton's been good this year, but the success of his backups really do make me think he's not worth a max. They are a team that is so solid at every possession, it really puts their centers in a position to be successful. His ability to hit that little jump hook is a nice option for the playoffs, to be sure. I'm sure he still gets at least near max. But hell, Middleton and Jrue didn't get the max, though they got close. They're both way better than Ayton (imo). John Collins I think I like more than Ayton, and he only got 25mil/year.

I'm coming around to this view too. Biyombo looks amazing for them last night.
   2031. PJ Martinez Posted: January 21, 2022 at 03:25 PM (#6061859)
One thing I only just noticed because I was curious how many minutes Tatum has played this year: Russell Westbrook leads the league in minutes played. (Tatum is fourth.)
   2032. tshipman Posted: January 21, 2022 at 04:57 PM (#6061885)
That is the equivalent of that old joke that you lose money on every sale, but you make it up on volume.
   2033. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 21, 2022 at 05:33 PM (#6061888)
The Rockets, who traded Russell Westbrook to the Wizards for John Wall and a future first-round pick during the 2020 offseason, would be amenable to reacquiring Westbrook from the Lakers if the deal included “sufficient draft compensation,” Marc Stein writes in his latest Substack column.


This would be so funny. It needs to happen.
   2034. smileyy Posted: January 21, 2022 at 05:37 PM (#6061889)
Who tf would the Lakers want back from the Rockets?
   2035. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 21, 2022 at 05:37 PM (#6061890)
Who says no stolen from twitter (also threw a couple picks to HOU)

But that isn't good enough for our purposes here, so how about this or this or this one...
   2036. smileyy Posted: January 21, 2022 at 05:37 PM (#6061891)
Oh, John Wall apparently.

Edit: b/c the Lakers appear to need another PG who can't shoot?
   2037. smileyy Posted: January 21, 2022 at 05:46 PM (#6061896)
For possibly the first time ever, I agree with a Stephen A. Smith headline:

Stephen A.: Westbrook needs to accept that he can't shoot
   2038. tshipman Posted: January 21, 2022 at 05:51 PM (#6061898)
My favorite thing about the ESPN trade machine is that it still gives you "Hollinger's Analysis" despite him not writing for ESPN for like 10 years.
   2039. smileyy Posted: January 21, 2022 at 06:06 PM (#6061900)
If HOU wants picks to move Wall (who is sitting out the season in search of a trade) for Westbrook, doesn't that acknowledge that HOU thinks Westbrook is a net negative value (not that any of us here are arguing otherwise)?
   2040. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 21, 2022 at 09:39 PM (#6061922)
This Bulls Bucks game is one of the worst shooting games I've seen in years. Plenty of good defense, mostly on the wide open threes for both teams. Halfway thru wed bucks are 5/20 and bulls are 2/21.

Edit #### grayson Allen and his cheap shot punk ass.
   2041. spivey Posted: January 21, 2022 at 10:20 PM (#6061928)
I go back and forth between thinking Wesley Matthews is toast and could provide value for 15 minutes of wing defense in the playoffs.
   2042. spivey Posted: January 21, 2022 at 10:23 PM (#6061929)
BOBBY BOBBY BOBBY
   2043. asinwreck Posted: January 21, 2022 at 10:25 PM (#6061930)
This Bulls Bucks game is one of the worst shooting games I've seen in years. Plenty of good defense, mostly on the wide open threes for both teams. Halfway thru wed bucks are 5/20 and bulls are 2/21.

Remarkable game. I think there were NBA games in 1975 with more made 3s.
   2044. asinwreck Posted: January 21, 2022 at 10:26 PM (#6061931)
Cook is going to get more minutes at the 4 after tonight's performance.
   2045. spivey Posted: January 21, 2022 at 10:30 PM (#6061932)
The shooting in this game is horrendous. I've only been able to watch the 4th quarter. Caruso d'ing up Giannis well isn't surprising, but is impressive. Of course they're sending doubles and such, but I'm glad Caruso's defense this year has gone beyond just NBA nerds nerding out about it to the mainstream. It's hard to imagine a world he doesn't get at least 2nd team all-NBA defense.

Chicago really needs a 4, or at least a big 3 (like Middleton). They suck at rebounding.
   2046. spivey Posted: January 21, 2022 at 10:39 PM (#6061933)
Giannis just let Jrue cut down the middle of the lane wide open to take a terrible turnaround baseline 2pt jumper. Giannis can take some bad shots when he's pressing. Still love him, but it happens.
   2047. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 21, 2022 at 10:47 PM (#6061935)
Bulls had zero business being in that game. Some really bad offense at the end doomed them, not to take anything away from bucks defense.
   2048. asinwreck Posted: January 21, 2022 at 10:50 PM (#6061936)
Had you told me how poorly the Bulls would shoot (and of all the ice cold shooters, Coby White was the one who most misunderstood why George Gervin was called the Iceman) that the Bulls would defend Giannis this well and be in the game to the final minute, I wouldn't have believed you.

Yeah, they still need a 4. Cook will get more time to play while the front office decides whether or not to offer Pat Williams to Detroit.
   2049. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: January 21, 2022 at 10:56 PM (#6061938)
The Lakers' next game is against Miami, so I looked at Miami's BaskRef page, and I frankly didn't realize what a good year they are having. They lost by two in ATL tonight, but they are 5th in the NBA in Net Rtg and Top 10 in both ORTG and DRTG, even though Butler is 32 and Lowry is 35 and have missed time this year. Butler has been great when he has played. No one seems to talk much about Riley and Spoelstra any more but they still run an operation to be reckoned with.
   2050. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 22, 2022 at 03:44 PM (#6062012)
Woj:
Chicago Bulls guard Alex Caruso has suffered a fractured right wrist and will likely need surgery, sources tell ESPN. The injury occurred after a fall following a flagrant foul from Milwaukee’s Grayson Allen on Friday night.


#### that ############. Smirked the whole time out and never said anything to Caruso.

What are the odds the bulls would have 2 guys break their wrists on flagrant fouls this year?

Edit:
Injury Update: Alex Caruso will undergo surgery early next week and be re-evaluated in 6-8 weeks after sustaining a fracture of his right wrist in last night’s game versus the Milwaukee Bucks.
   2051. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 22, 2022 at 03:55 PM (#6062013)
https://twitter.com/Bucks/status/1484903932686176264

This is gross as hell. Grayson should be suspended for as long as Caruso is out.
   2052. asinwreck Posted: January 22, 2022 at 04:15 PM (#6062016)
This was the first of several games between Chicago and Milwaukee this season. Curious to see what the league does before their next game.
   2053. tshipman Posted: January 22, 2022 at 05:01 PM (#6062018)
Feel awful for Caruso. Those kinds of injuries can linger, and affect the jumpshot. I'm glad he got paid at least.
   2054. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 22, 2022 at 05:49 PM (#6062024)
Truly a horseshit foul. No way he would accomplish anything but what he did with what it was. Donovan, who is always nice in public, went off on it after the game.
   2055. kcgard2 Posted: January 22, 2022 at 07:47 PM (#6062045)
The Bulls/Bucks game was really hard to watch - I turned it off in the 3rd quarter because the offensive play on both sides was maddeningly poor. A lot of the foul calls were driving me crazy in that game, too. The Bucks are also a team that will spend some games not really trying to execute good offense but just settling for whatever semi-junk shot is available and committing lazy turnovers. Those games are hard to watch, but they're one of the better teams to watch when their heads are right.

Grayson Allen singlehandedly makes the Bucks really hard to root for, and they're a team I really want to root for.
   2056. PJ Martinez Posted: January 22, 2022 at 08:00 PM (#6062047)
According to Marc Stein, when one player injures another on a reckless play, the league does take the injury into account when deciding on a penalty. So it seems at least possible that Allen will receive a significant suspension.
   2057. spivey Posted: January 23, 2022 at 10:01 AM (#6062088)
I didn't like the Allen signing, or giving him a 2/20 deal before he'd done anything or shown he wouldn't be a dirty player. I've never liked Grayson Allen. I'll say this about the foul.

It was dirty. My initial thought was dirty in the reckless way, though the smirk is obnoxious/concerning. It seemed like he was making a play on the ball, just very recklessly (too hard and while in the air and from an angle where it wasn't likely to be successful, though he is pretty athletic).

It's a big bummer that Caruso is hurt. Hopefully he's back and healthy, and fit for the playoffs, because he's crucial to what they do. And seriously impressed he was playing such good defense, even in the post, vs. Giannis with a fractured wrist late in the game.

I don't disagree injuries should be a factor for the suspension. But hopefully post 2051 and others who feel the same way have the same energy for Jokic, and think he should be sitting out the entire year because yes, Markieff Morris is still out. Giannis takes borderline dirty fouls all the time. Like when Chris Paul shoved him in the back in the air on the biggest play of the NBA finals last season. The league probably doesn't do enough to protect offensive players in the air.

I'll also be interested to see what the Bucks do. They didn't play him last night. They said it was an injury, but I'm skeptical. I didn't think Allen fit the players or culture the team had.
   2058. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 23, 2022 at 12:41 PM (#6062102)
But hopefully post 2051 and others who feel the same way have the same energy for Jokic, and think he should be sitting out the entire year because yes, Markieff Morris is still out.

I don't think Jokic should be out, nor do I think Allen should be out as long as it takes for Caruso's wrist to heal. I do think Jokic should've been suspended a few more games than he was, and Allen longer than that because of his history of dirty fouls, and because this wasn't retaliation like Jokic's was. I wish the league came down harder on borderline dirty fouls generally, as often the line between a hard fall and a serious injury is pretty much luck. But I also don't think an-eye-for-an-eye adjudication is the answer when an injury does occur.
   2059. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: January 23, 2022 at 01:09 PM (#6062105)
hopefully post 2051 and others who feel the same way have the same energy for Jokic, and think he should be sitting out the entire year because yes, Markieff Morris is still out.

let the record show that i called for jokic to get a 25+ game suspension for that crippling cheap shot on morris:
696. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: November 09, 2021 at 01:30 PM (#6052092)
...
the more i see of this, i have to say that i'll disappointed if jokic is suspended for anything less than 25 games. i'd also make his return to an active roster contingent on never training in combat sports until he's retired.



grayson allen has repeatedly shown himself unable to control his own actions. hist lack of impulse control makes him a persistent danger to the health and safety of anyone who happens to be playing against him, and personally, i don't think he should be allowed to play in the NBA again.
   2060. tshipman Posted: January 23, 2022 at 01:59 PM (#6062110)
I think part of the problem is that the rhetoric and attention to these kinds of plays is always driven by the outcome, not the action.

You can find a play of nearly every NBA star making contact with a player in the air. You can find clips of LeBron, Durant, or Curry (just to name the three biggest stars) making questionable contact on guys in midair. Obviously the Grayson Allen play wasn't "questionable", but dangerous.

I prefer the NBA to be about athleticism and the beautiful game over physicality and toughness, but the game has always contained all of those things. The flagrant rules have gotten stricter over time, but they are applied incredibly inconsistently.

In my opinion, the league should improve consistency by having all flagrants and borderline flagrants be logged and reviewed by a the league office to improve consistency and make it more about the action than the result.
   2061. jmurph Posted: January 23, 2022 at 02:45 PM (#6062112)
I'm also not really supportive of the "depends on the severity of the injury" thing. The Bynum on Barea foul, to name a famous one that comes to mind, wasn't any less egregious because Barea seemingly has bendier bones than other players.
   2062. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 23, 2022 at 04:37 PM (#6062128)
I think Jokic deserved a longer suspension than he got but his cheap shot also directly followed a cheap shot from Morris. Grayson has proven himself to be a dirty piece of #### and I don't see any extenuating circumstances for this play. There are obviously issues with keeping players out for as long as the guy they injure is out, so I don't expect the league to ever seriously consider it. But with Grayson I would not care if he was suspended the rest of the season.

Also, speaking of inconsistent calls, I'm still upset at the dirty foul Paul Pierce put on Alec Burks years ago that IIRC broke Burks' leg and really set back his development. It wasn't even called a flagrant because it was Pierce who did it.
   2063. Harlond Posted: January 23, 2022 at 04:49 PM (#6062129)
Seems to me the "depends on the severity of the injury thing" thing enables the NBA to achieve a sort of rough justice, which generally speaking is a good thing. We generally take outcome into account when doling out punishments. But if it wants to deter the behavior, the NBA cannot focus solely on outcome, or as you say, fouls on bendier players are punished less severely. In Allen's case, the foul was unnecessarily hard, the fouled's player's fall was sufficiently hard and out of control that injury was a likely outcome* of the fall, injury did in fact occur, and the fouling player has a bad history and no mitigating circumstance, such as a preceding hard foul from the fouled player. That seems to me to be the case that calls most compellingly for harsh punishment.

Jokic's case is a better one, in that the fouled player's fall was not so extraordinarily hard or out of control that injury was likely* and Jokic may have been retaliating from a hard foul against him by Morris. Not that you want to encourage retaliation, so maybe you shouldn't take that into account, but human nature is what it is. But I agree that since injury did occur, Jokic's punishment should have been more severe.


*NBA players are so tough. I played a pick up game one time with Calvin Duncan, who played for a pretty good VCU team, was the 30th overall pick in the 1985 NBA draft, and spent some time in the CBA. I tried to set a pick on him once, but only once, because I felt like I'd been in a car accident afterwards. Really, every time you came into contact with him, it hurt. One game with Duncan and I was ready to switch to tiddly winks; Duncan was utterly unaffected. I assume this is how it is for NBA players every minute of every game, and they show an amazing ability to stay on the court. Whereas I think any NBA foul on me during a layup would put me out for weeks. Duncan later became a minister, where he could have beaten his flock into obedience just by having them set picks on him.
   2064. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 23, 2022 at 04:53 PM (#6062130)
@wojespn
The NBA is suspending Milwaukee’s Grayson Allen for one game over the flagrant 2 foul on Chicago’s Alex Caruso that caused a fractured wrist, sources tell ESPN.


Wow, an even bigger joke than Jokic' suspension.
   2065. tshipman Posted: January 23, 2022 at 05:16 PM (#6062132)
One game is incredibly common for these kind of suspensions. LeBron got one for the Stewart confrontation earlier in the year. Stewart went full on psycho-mode and only got two games.

Allen tried to make a play on the ball. He did so recklessly and compounded that mistake by taking Caruso to the ground while in midair, but he didn't try to actively punch anyone. You were never going to see more than two games.
   2066. GregD Posted: January 23, 2022 at 07:02 PM (#6062153)
In my opinion, the league should improve consistency by having all flagrants and borderline flagrants be logged and reviewed by a the league office to improve consistency and make it more about the action than the result.


Don’t you think this already happens? I haven’t paid close attention to their evaluation system but I have a close family member who refs for a couple of top college leagues and they get analysis of their calls within days of each game. I assume NBA is much more analytic driven though I haven’t looked to see. The challenge in basketball rules isn’t knowing them; it’s being positioned the right way to see the right thing at the right time and responding clearly under pressure and I’m stages of fatigue. The TV cameras are amazing and their angles unforgiving but it’s very hard for people on the court to get it right at the level fans (understandably) expect
   2067. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 23, 2022 at 07:46 PM (#6062156)
Allen tried to make a play on the ball. He did so recklessly and compounded that mistake by taking Caruso to the ground while in midair, but he didn't try to actively punch anyone. You were never going to see more than two games.

I agree that multiple games was never going to happen, but if the NBA wants to discourage this type of play - and they should - they would make the penalties more severe. I go back and forth on how I feel about an injury impacting the length of suspension, on one hand I think it's pointless to ignore but on the other plays that could result in injuries but don't still *should* be punished. The league just hasn't taken a strong enough stand yet, and it'll probably take a serious injury to a star player and/or during the playoffs for the uproar to get loud enough.

As for making a play on the ball - he kinda did, but missed then grabbed Caruso's arm and shoved him in the air with the other arm. Getting close to making a play on ball doesn't mean you can do whatever after you miss the ball (I'm not saying you're saying it does, it's just I don't think it should matter because it wasn't the play on the ball that caused the injury/was the reason for the flagrant 2). Also, Allen has almost no chance on making a play on the ball at all, so that also matters.

Having said all that, I know teammates and coaches have to stick up for their guy (even if they don't want to) and nothing Bud or anyone else said was *that* bad even
if I wish Bud could have said something like he appreciates the effort but that type of play is dangerous and Allen has to know better blah blah blah...it's not throwing him under the bus but it also is the type of thing that everyone would understand and be ok with. This, on the other hand:

Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn ·29m

Milwaukee Bucks’ statement on Grayson Allen’s 1 game suspension: “We disagree with the suspension. We support Grayson and look forward to him rejoining our team for Friday’s game vs. New York.”


#### YOU

"It was very unfortunate how it played out," Allen wrote. "I jumped to block it with my left and as I'm spinning went to grab the ball with my right hand not throw him down. It was a really hard fall and I'm glad he's okay. If I could do the play over again knowing he'd fall like that I wouldn't make the play."

#### you, I don't believe you and you're lying, you piece of ####.
   2068. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: January 23, 2022 at 08:40 PM (#6062164)
Gonzaga University has suspended season tickets for one of its most notable alumni and Hall of Fame basketball player John Stockton after he refused to comply with the school's mask mandates at games, he said in an interview with The Spokesman-Review in Washington.

The former Utah Jazz point guard confirmed the school suspended his tickets in an interview Saturday.
"Basically, it came down to, they were asking me to wear a mask to the games and being a public figure, someone a little bit more visible, I stuck out in the crowd a little bit," Stockton said. "And therefore they received complaints and felt like from whatever the higher-ups -- those weren't discussed, but from whatever it was higher up -- they were going to have to either ask me to wear a mask or they were going to suspend my tickets."


-cnn.com
   2069. tshipman Posted: January 23, 2022 at 08:46 PM (#6062166)
As for making a play on the ball - he kinda did, but missed then grabbed Caruso's arm and shoved him in the air with the other arm. Getting close to making a play on ball doesn't mean you can do whatever after you miss the ball (I'm not saying you're saying it does, it's just I don't think it should matter because it wasn't the play on the ball that caused the injury/was the reason for the flagrant 2). Also, Allen has almost no chance on making a play on the ball at all, so that also matters.


I agree with all of this. It only matters in the context of the suspension. Like, it's not Kermit Washington or Ron Artest v. Harden. Those are the situations where you get the really long suspensions.

Edit: I actually agree that they should make the penalties more severe, but you have to announce it in advance, preferably in the offseason, like they did with the whole "anyone who leaves the bench gets a suspension" rule.
   2070. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: January 23, 2022 at 08:53 PM (#6062168)
The Lakers make it interesting after getting down big against the Heat. That said, Russ had a good game and the Lakers might have gotten the W with some better three point luck. Russ had 24/9/9 on 9/15 shooting with only three turnovers.

Malik Monk has not been getting as many shots recently despite decent amount of playing time.

The Lakers should be getting AD back soon. At some point, they should get Kendrick Nunn. There only real hope is that AD and LeBron are healthy and play well, they can piece the rest of the playoff rotation with Westbrook, Monk, Bradey, Howard, Nunn, Johnson, Melo, and Reaves. They probably would be better if they just stopped playing Ariza who is looking very washed.
   2071. asinwreck Posted: January 23, 2022 at 10:26 PM (#6062186)
Ant Edwards just got helped off the court in the last seconds of a blowout win, putting no pressure on his right foot. I hope it's not serious.
   2072. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 24, 2022 at 06:40 AM (#6062193)
Seems like a simple knee knock (touch wood). That was a fun game.
   2073. spivey Posted: January 24, 2022 at 08:44 AM (#6062197)
As for making a play on the ball - he kinda did, but missed then grabbed Caruso's arm and shoved him in the air with the other arm. Getting close to making a play on ball doesn't mean you can do whatever after you miss the ball (I'm not saying you're saying it does, it's just I don't think it should matter because it wasn't the play on the ball that caused the injury/was the reason for the flagrant 2). Also, Allen has almost no chance on making a play on the ball at all, so that also matters.


The way I interpreted the play the first time I saw it was he went for the play with one hand, missed the ball but fouled Caruso, then saw Caruso looked like he was still going to be able to get a shot on the rim, so came really hard with his second arm to try to block again or foul harder to prevent the shot going up.
   2074. jmurph Posted: January 24, 2022 at 10:16 AM (#6062212)
Some interesting cap notes from the latest free Dunc'd On podcast:
- The Nets currently face a $109 million tax bill.
- Because of Brooklyn and the other teams well over the tax, teams that are under the tax are currently set to get a $10ish million payment.
   2075. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 24, 2022 at 10:57 AM (#6062217)
The way I interpreted the play the first time I saw it was he went for the play with one hand, missed the ball but fouled Caruso, then saw Caruso looked like he was still going to be able to get a shot on the rim, so came really hard with his second arm to try to block again or foul harder to prevent the shot going up.

The foul - the first part you're talking about - included grabbing Caruso's arm at the elbow, holding on, and throwing down and then he came with the 2nd arm with a hard swipe but the ball was already out of Caruso's hand. Allen's momentum was taking him away from Caruso, so he was already reaching back across his body. Like I said, maybe, maybe, he was trying to make a play on the ball, but he had virtually no chance and with his history he absolutely doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. Not to mention his reactions after the play.

Again though, the larger point is the league should whatever they can to make it so guys don't even try to make that type of foul, even accidentally. This Oubre play last night had some similarities, but also some big differences - Oubre wasn't as close to the ball initially so he got Hunter lower on the arm at initial contact, but Oubre didn't grab or hook, he didn't swipe with his other arm, and he immediately checked on Hunter. It's pretty safe to assume that was a total accident and he wasn't trying to commit a hard foul, unlike Allen. However, Oubre also had virtually no chance on making a play on the ball so he shouldn't have tried.

Since the NBA said they take the injury into account and since Oubre also got a flagrant 2, I'll be shocked if Oubre is suspended unless the Hawks announce Hunter is hurt.

And yes, the only reason I'm still talking about this is because I don't want to talk about yesterday's Bulls game and how bad Vuc is and how much I want him off the Bulls.
   2076. PJ Martinez Posted: January 24, 2022 at 11:06 AM (#6062219)
76ers prefer to wait to pursue James Harden or another superstar in offseason and want to save Ben Simmons for that potential deal over current market, per sources with knowledge and rival teams.
Per Shams.

In semi-related rumor-news, there was a report the other day from a Philly writer that the Sixers supposedly turned down Halliburton, Barnes, Hield, and two first-rounders for Simmons, Harris, and Thybulle. I'm skeptical that that happened, but I wonder if Stevens could pursue a deal along similar lines with Brown in place of Simmons. I'd do that deal if so.
   2077. tshipman Posted: January 24, 2022 at 11:24 AM (#6062225)
In semi-related rumor-news, there was a report the other day from a Philly writer that the Sixers supposedly turned down Halliburton, Barnes, Hield, and two first-rounders for Simmons, Harris, and Thybulle. I'm skeptical that that happened, but I wonder if Stevens could pursue a deal along similar lines with Brown in place of Simmons. I'd do that deal if so.


You want the Celtics to trade for Harris first? Bold strategy.

...

1. Morey is clearly leaking that they're comfortable just waiting until the offseason, so there are reasons to be skeptical that it's the truth.
2. Big picture, I still don't get the strategy. Who is going to be out there this summer? Is it really just Harden or bust?
3. I know the leaks are just leaks, but Morey has been trying this bullshit Overton window stuff around Simmons's trade value and I don't get it. If he really did turn down Halliburton, Barnes and Hield, then what the hell does he expect to get?
   2078. jmurph Posted: January 24, 2022 at 11:33 AM (#6062227)
Halliburton, Barnes, and Hield, and you get off Harris's contract, and they're the team that gets the picks? That would be an incredible return for the Sixers. If it wasn't the Kings I wouldn't believe it for a second.
   2079. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: January 24, 2022 at 11:39 AM (#6062229)
In semi-related rumor-news, there was a report the other day from a Philly writer that the Sixers supposedly turned down Halliburton, Barnes, Hield, and two first-rounders for Simmons, Harris, and Thybulle. I'm skeptical that that happened, but I wonder if Stevens could pursue a deal along similar lines with Brown in place of Simmons. I'd do that deal if so.
fwiw, what i've heard is that the kings proposed (something like) that deal without tharris, and the sixers counter, which was rejected by the kings, included tharris.

whatever you're referencing is probably just derivative of that previous report, but also wrong.
   2080. bob gee Posted: January 24, 2022 at 11:43 AM (#6062231)
I take that Sixers deal if there's no Thybulle. But I really like Halliburton and think Barnes has turned the corner.
   2081. PJ Martinez Posted: January 24, 2022 at 12:07 PM (#6062235)
The Sacramento Kings have reportedly considered a trade package of Tyrese Haliburton, Buddy Hield, Harrison Barnes and two-first-round picks in exchange for the Philadelphia 76ers' Ben Simmons, Tobias Harris and Matisse Thybulle, according to Keith Pompey of the Philadelphia Inquirer.

Pompey noted that the Sixers weren't interested in the package, however, and added that "sources have repeatedly said the Sixers are not interested in a deal involving De'Aaron Fox unless he's shipped to a third team."
   2082. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 24, 2022 at 12:20 PM (#6062238)
My God, if that was offered and rejected, KANGZ fans should be praising Morey's intransigence.
   2083. DCA Posted: January 24, 2022 at 12:39 PM (#6062243)
So the Kings don't want to deal Fox, and the Sixers don't want to acquire him. Nevertheless, this works. Picks to SAC.
   2084. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: January 24, 2022 at 12:40 PM (#6062244)
The Sacramento Kings have reportedly considered a trade package of Tyrese Haliburton, Buddy Hield, Harrison Barnes and two-first-round picks in exchange for the Philadelphia 76ers' Ben Simmons, Tobias Harris and Matisse Thybulle, according to Keith Pompey of the Philadelphia Inquirer.

i stand by what i said in [2079].

i don't want to go after pompey too hard, so i'll just say that he would fit better at zombie "deadspin" than at "the athletic".
   2085. asinwreck Posted: January 24, 2022 at 02:28 PM (#6062263)
- The Nets currently face a $109 million tax bill.
So, where do we think Kyrie will play next season?
   2086. jmurph Posted: January 24, 2022 at 02:45 PM (#6062264)
So, where do we think Kyrie will play next season?

This is interesting. $36 million player option. He might just pick that up?

Halfway through his 3rd season with the team, he's played just shy of one full season, 81 games.
   2087. asinwreck Posted: January 24, 2022 at 02:58 PM (#6062267)
Maybe the Nets will try to place him elsewhere in the metaverse.
The Brooklyn Nets have filed three separate applications with the United States Patent and Trademark Office for the trademark “Netaverse,” according to trademark attorney Josh Gerben of Gerben Intellectual Property.

One filing indicates a potential interest in broadcasting — or at least replaying — games in the metaverse. That one calls for a trademark on the term for:

“Entertainment services in the nature of broadcast of three dimensional multi-camera virtual reality game services in the nature of broadcasts of live game action and replays of game action in the field of basketball and promoting a professional basketball team.”
Another extensive filing is focused around merchandise, including “clothing, namely hosiery, footwear, basketball shoes, t-shirts, shirts, polo shirts, sweatshirts, sweatpants, tank tops, jerseys, shorts, pajamas, sport shirts, rugby shirts, sweaters, belts…”

The last filing is one that’s based around technology, calling for “downloadable computer application software for mobile phones, namely, software for providing an internet search engine for obtaining job listings, resume postings and other job search information…”
   2088. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: January 24, 2022 at 04:07 PM (#6062283)
Gimmicky tech tie-in, you say? Spencer Dinwiddie reunion trade demand coming in 3... 2... 1...
   2089. tshipman Posted: January 24, 2022 at 05:37 PM (#6062298)
So, where do we think Kyrie will play next season?


I wonder if the Nets would trade him for Westbrook. Just to keep Durant/Harden happy.

I have no idea how toxic Kyrie's contract is around the league.
   2090. aberg Posted: January 24, 2022 at 06:39 PM (#6062306)
Here's a weird stat. Every year since he became a starter, Jokic has had a def reb % between 26.1-27.9 and this year it's at 36.3%! That's a pretty significant drop, and it's not like he's playing with poor rebounders around him. Also interesting that Gordon has dropped from ~18% for his year and has been ~13% since getting to Denver.
   2091. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 24, 2022 at 07:51 PM (#6062318)
Bulls get LaVine and Green back tonight, but are giving DeRozan the night off for rest. He needs it, but Bulls also need him. After getting creamed in Orlando yesterday, I'm not assuming tonight in OKC is a gimme.
   2092. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 24, 2022 at 08:41 PM (#6062323)
Kendrick Williams has the worst hair style in the NBA in years.
   2093. asinwreck Posted: January 24, 2022 at 09:24 PM (#6062330)
Cleveland's defense* is a pleasure to watch. They just smothered the Knicks at the end of tonight's game.

*Evan Mobley. Evan Mobley is a pleasure to watch.
   2094. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: January 24, 2022 at 09:28 PM (#6062332)
Cleveland's defense* is a pleasure to watch. They just smothered the Knicks at the end of tonight's game.

*Evan Mobley. Evan Mobley is a pleasure to watch.
he's like a young tyson chandler.
Kendrick Williams has the worst hair style in the NBA in years.

it takes a lot of effort to top this guy.
   2095. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 24, 2022 at 09:35 PM (#6062334)
Stupid autocorrect. It's kenrich. And yes it's worse than that.
   2096. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 24, 2022 at 09:49 PM (#6062336)
Stupid autocorrect. It's kenrich. And yes it's worse than that.

It is shockingly bad.
   2097. asinwreck Posted: January 24, 2022 at 10:00 PM (#6062338)
Ayo Dosunmu's shooting of late has been unreal. Currently 10-12 tonight, including this halfcourt heave.
   2098. tshipman Posted: January 24, 2022 at 11:13 PM (#6062351)
Jazz are actually not that far from the 5th seed, which is pretty wild.
   2099. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: January 25, 2022 at 02:30 AM (#6062360)
Bill Simmons
@BillSimmons
·
15h
The Ben Simmons reports are becoming more and more ludicrous. Oh Brooklyn is gonna be leaping at the chance to trade Harden for him this summer? Give me a break. You float pie-in-the-sky stuff when you have no leverage. Philly has no leverage. He’s legit damaged as a trade asset.
   2100. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: January 25, 2022 at 02:30 AM (#6062361)
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