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Friday, October 15, 2021

NBA 2021-2022 Season Thread

I estimate there are maybe 10-12 Primates left on this site, and none of us want to post this thread.

Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: October 15, 2021 at 11:39 AM | 4178 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: get me out of philly, nba, off top

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   2201. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: January 28, 2022 at 10:46 AM (#6062856)
   2202. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: January 28, 2022 at 10:47 AM (#6062858)
It is never anything less than terrifying when Joel Embiid falls over in an NBA game. I’ve thought about this, and the only other NBA player from my lifetime who inspired even close to the same level of anxiety during falls was Yao Ming
my concern is not so much the frequency of Embiid’s random-seeming tumbles, nor is it the possibility that Embiid’s body will be destroyed by a given fall. My concern, each time Embiid falls down, is that his body has already been destroyed, and the fall is just his ruined corpus collapsing into a large pile of glistening smithereens. I simply cannot make my brain believe that Embiid is not always on the brink of explosion. The fall is not how it will explode, but rather is evidence that it has just exploded.
What is the experience of watching Embiid fall over, for a fan of the 76ers? One poor fan compared it to “watching your child running with scissors 80–100 times a year,” and said “you get very used to holding your breath,” which honestly to me sounds like trauma!
Another Sixers fan described four years of “clench-inducing” horror, but said that he is now “totally numb,” something he considers “part of the package” of being a fan of this team

this is the good #### right here.
   2203. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: January 28, 2022 at 12:53 PM (#6062881)
On 3 April 1995, on Olowokandi's 20th birthday, he opened the Peterson's Guide to American Colleges and Universities to a random page and landed on the University of the Pacific (UOP). Olowokandi called the UOP basketball office in hopes that he would be accepted to play basketball for the Pacific Tigers.

I used to track walk-ons in college hoops - Olowokandi's success was thrilling to watch in real time.
As already noted - he wasn't the consensus #1, but he wasn't controversial either - there were some questions (in a good way, given his lack of experience) as to how much more he could develop.
   2204. smileyy Posted: January 28, 2022 at 01:10 PM (#6062884)
[2203] I guess with a completely raw players like that, it's really hard to gauge what their actual ceiling might be?

I'm probably bagging on him and the Clippers too much. From a putting-myself-in-the-drafters-shoes-circa-the-1998-draft shoes, there wasn't a consensus choice and like someone else noted, the best players were either from overseas (Nowitzki) or not the "best" prospect from their own team (Pierce behind Lafrentz, Carter behind Jamison)

At least Olowokandi stuck around the league long enough to post a -8.5 VORP, unlike Anthony Bennett who bounced out after 4(!) years.
   2205. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: January 28, 2022 at 03:44 PM (#6062920)
Carter behind Jamison)


Anyone know the story behind these two on draft night? Toronto drafted Jamison then traded him for Carter, who was picked immediately after. I'm guessing Toronto was fine with either and just took the cash when GS came with their offer?
   2206. Mike A Posted: January 28, 2022 at 05:30 PM (#6062939)
From what I understand, Golden State just wanted Jamison more. They were afraid the Raptors would take him at #4 and/or trade the pick, so they worked out a deal before the draft to swap the pick. The Raptors say they had Carter rated the #1 player in the draft, but who knows. Toronto got cash in return.

The Nowitzki story is pretty interesting as well. Apparently Boston worked him out in secret in Germany and were going to take him at #10. Then the Mavs traded down and picked Dirk at #9, shocking the Celtics (almost the same scenario happened with the Hawks/Bucks and Giannis years later). But Pierce was surprisingly still available (most mock drafts had him in the 1-5 range). The Celtics were panicked because they didn't know why Pierce had fallen and never, ever expected him to be there at #10. But they picked him anyways, and we know the rest of the story.

Even crazier was Larry Brown and the 76ers wanted to take Pierce at #8, but took Larry Hughes instead because they had promised Hughes they'd take him if he were available. Yeah, you might have wanted to break that promise.
   2207. PJ Martinez Posted: January 28, 2022 at 06:02 PM (#6062943)
Teams around the NBA would consider asking the league to investigate a James Harden to 76ers deal, should the Brooklyn Nets superstar land in Philadelphia, league sources told Yahoo Sports.
FWIW. Obviously, this might be translated as "teams around the league would prefer that the 76ers decide that they should deal Simmons now," but the reporting around Harden to the 76ers so far does seem to imply something fairly tamperish.
   2208. nick swisher hygiene Posted: January 28, 2022 at 06:36 PM (#6062946)
I guess I don’t think like the guys in the league—from my perspective, Simmons being cool with not playing the entire season takes roughly 50% off his trade value. But clearly nobody else believes that…

edit: What I mean is that player moves are always about relationships, and essentially never about the kind of on-the-court #### that you can eyeball or access via analytics
   2209. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: January 29, 2022 at 12:49 AM (#6062975)
Lakers lose again without LeBron, AD, and Monk. Westbrook was legitmately fantastic in a losing cause.
   2210. smileyy Posted: January 29, 2022 at 02:00 AM (#6062976)
I still don't get why the Lakers didn't just run it back, and acquiring Westbrook instead. Well, I do, because GM LeBron. The problem last year wasn't the supporting cast, it was LeBron's high ankle sprain and Anthony Davis's groin.
   2211. jmurph Posted: January 29, 2022 at 09:09 AM (#6062984)
I still don't get why the Lakers didn't just run it back, and acquiring Westbrook instead. Well, I do, because GM LeBron. The problem last year wasn't the supporting cast, it was LeBron's high ankle sprain and Anthony Davis's groin.

My guess is that LeBron felt like he needed help carrying the load? Which makes sense, it just seems like he (not uniquely among high level athletes) was bad at identifying the right guy to help.
   2212. tshipman Posted: January 29, 2022 at 03:35 PM (#6063011)
I still don't get why the Lakers didn't just run it back, and acquiring Westbrook instead. Well, I do, because GM LeBron. The problem last year wasn't the supporting cast, it was LeBron's high ankle sprain and Anthony Davis's groin.


It was kind of both. The supporting cast was fine if your goal is to make the playoffs, but they didn't think they were a championship team. Further, you were locking yourself into Dennis Schroder for 16 million to run it back, which I think is sort of self-evidently a bad decision.

The Westbrook acquisition was a gamble. How can you get a superstar level talent to join a capped out team that addresses your biggest weakness (minutes without LeBron), and gives you championship equity?

Obviously, it did not work, but there was a universe where it could have worked. We talked about this a fair bit at the beginning of the season. Russ never really bought in to setting screens and rolling on offense, and the defensive philosophy depended more on guys like Caruso and KCP than the Lakers' brass realized.

Russ not working sort of obscured the fact that none of the guys who were sent out were that great. Kuzma is probably the best of them, and he has a below average TS% as a poor defender. Montrezl is still a liability in the playoffs, and KCP is just a guy.
   2213. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: January 29, 2022 at 04:35 PM (#6063019)
I agree with most of both 2211 and 2212. Adding a few thoughts of my own--this will be "TL;DR" for many here I think.

1. The "get another playmaker to take the pressure off LeBron" thing goes back to when Magic Johnson was POBO. They brought in Rondo, then Schroder, and finally the deluxe plan--Westbrook. I see why they would think that is a good idea, but the problem is that James, while he is not a "selfish" player in the sense that he is a "gunner" is a very ball-dominant guy and a guy who is going to play 35-40 minutes a game, and you have to let him do what he wants because he's the GOAT.
2. James is the main promoter of the "NBA Brotherhood" stuff and part of that is sort of a de facto club of superstars/Team USA guys (a larger version of the Banana Boat). Westbrook, as a 9X All-Star and MVP, is in the club, so I think it is pretty clear that James and Davis were telling Pelinka "Get Russ!" That doesn't mean that this situation ultimately does not fall on Pelinka, but that would be hard pressure for any run-of-the-mill NBA exec to stand up to.
3. As far as the team 4-12: like I have said a few times, I think most high-end guys want to play with guys on their timelines, so in addition to moving three guys in their 20s for Westbrook, James trusted a bunch of older guys: Howard, Rondo, Jordan, Bazemore, Anthony, Ariza, Ellington. Der-K and others here have pointed out that it might be better to have more young legs around James, and the Lakers have looked a little better with some younger guys out there more: Johnson, Reaves, Monk.
4. And yes, Pelinka (and James) underestimated (as did I) the importance of Caruso especially and also KCP. Caruso (and his injury on the dirty foul by Allen was ofc very unfortunate) has taken his defensive numbers with him to Chicago, and while he is only one factor, his new team is much better and his old one is much worse. So clearly it is more about him than about system/coaching/teammates. Shipman is 100% right that KCP is just a guy, but he is a guy who fits quite well with James: he is pretty good at staying in front of people on the perimeter, is a decent 3P shooter, plays off-ball, has a low USG. I have never been a big fan of Kuzma's game, but he is sort of OK at a bunch of stuff, and is not a bad player, so he was a pretty good fit as well. On top of that, Pelinka overvalued THT.
5. Westbrook is frustrating to root for at times and has lost a couple of steps, but as we saw last night, he is still dangerous when he gets things going and has the ball in his hands all game. But playing with James, a lot of his positives are neutralized and his negatives are foregrounded.
6. Finally, as was the case with D'Antoni in 2013, Pelinka and LeGM assembled a roster that does not play to stuff Vogel is good at. The 2020 Bigball team, with KCP and Caruso on the perimeter, James running the O, and Davis/McGee/Howard protecting the rim, was right in Vogel's wheelhouse. Since then, Pelinka has pivoted to getting more O and now has a roster that is suited more for smallball floor spacing but has poor personnel on D, and that does not work well for Vogel.
7. In addition to the comps to the Dwightmare team here in 2013, this team reminds me of a very poor man's version of the first Heatles team. James and Pelinka seemed to think that since the Lakers had James/Davis/Westbrook and Vogel has shown some ability to coach defense, they could just sort of get anybody 4-12 and still be good. As I said in preseason, that might have worked in 2017--but was a big gamble now, and has not worked.
   2214. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: January 29, 2022 at 10:32 PM (#6063027)
Rich Hoffman @rich_hofmann
“I love Philly, I really do. But this snow is crazy.” — Tyrese Maxey

   2215. bob gee Posted: January 30, 2022 at 02:14 PM (#6063056)
The Hawks defense (outside of DeAndre Hunter, and maybe Huerter) looks poor.
   2216. PJ Martinez Posted: January 30, 2022 at 06:27 PM (#6063087)
The Hawks are bad on defense but good on offense, and they've quietly won seven in a row now.
   2217. bob gee Posted: January 30, 2022 at 06:32 PM (#6063090)
They also looked much better when they went to a zone later, which confused the Lakers.

Okongwu can fly!
   2218. Mike A Posted: January 30, 2022 at 07:18 PM (#6063094)
Okongwu can fly!
I think he had five 4th quarter dunks and a layup. Okongwu may be making Capela expendable - Capela is taller and a better rim protector, but Okongwu is quicker and able to guard players like Davis and Giannis. The Hawk defense isn't great, but they have looked substantially better since Okongwu and Hunter came off IR, hence the seven game win streak.

Hate to say it, but getting rid of Cam Reddish has also helped. Cam was a high usage, low efficiency player and without him running the show the second unit looks a lot better. Cam wanted out, but now he's getting no PT in New York which has to sting.

I would have bet the farm a couple of weeks ago the Hawks would make moves at the deadline, but now I'm not so sure. They're looking like last year's Hawks again.
   2219. tshipman Posted: January 30, 2022 at 08:15 PM (#6063104)
The Hawk defense isn't great, but they have looked substantially better since Okongwu and Hunter came off IR, hence the seven game win streak.


Last 7 games, Hawks: 30.08 OPP 3p%, opponent shot quality: 0.55 (3rd worst in NBA, higher number bad for defense)
Rest of season, Hawks: 36.19% OPP 3p%, opponent shot quality: 0.54 (worst in NBA)

Hard pressed to say that the Hawks have really been better, seems more like the opponent shots just aren't going in.

All stats from here: (http://www.pbpstats.com/totals/nba/)
   2220. Harlond Posted: January 30, 2022 at 08:23 PM (#6063105)
Cade Cunningham with the triple double in the home win against the Cavs. He's really coming on.
   2221. Mike A Posted: January 30, 2022 at 08:57 PM (#6063111)
Hard pressed to say that the Hawks have really been better, seems more like the opponent shots just aren't going in.
Watching the past two weeks, the effort at least seems to have been greatly increased on the defensive end. Even Trae is trying...well, at least in the 4th quarter.

So yeah, I guess the stats don't lie and a fair amount of it is three point luck, but it seems weird to me that getting two good defensive players back in the rotation (and losing Cam Reddish) wouldn't help. Small sample size, but Okongwu is killing the advanced defensive stats (96th percentile EPM, +4.2 RAPTOR).
   2222. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: January 30, 2022 at 09:34 PM (#6063127)
Cade's rookie season is incredibly under the radar. He was injured to start the season, and Mobley and other rookies grabbed the spotlight, then by the time he got back the Pistons were already written off and no one was paying attention to them. Then he had a mediocre start, but now is coming on like gangbusters... with almost no press. Compared to the media circus around Zion for instance it's pretty crazy how Cade's been able to work things out in peace, for a #1 overall pick.

He looks as advertised to me more or less.
   2223. tshipman Posted: January 30, 2022 at 10:50 PM (#6063140)
Ingles with an awful looking knee injury on a non-contact play. Jazz are tied in the loss column with the 5th seed Nuggets. Trades get a lot harder without Ingles' salary available.

Not sure, but there have been rumblings that Ingles would hang it up soon. This may be a career ender. I am not going to link to it.
   2224. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 31, 2022 at 10:17 AM (#6063169)
Caruso (and his injury on the dirty foul by Allen was ofc very unfortunate) has taken his defensive numbers with him to Chicago

Not including yesterday's game:
Steph Noh @StephNoh ·18h
My thoughts on Bulls defense missing Caruso:

The best defense in the league (GSW) has a 103.9 defensive rating. Worst is 116.3 (HOU).

Bulls defensive rating with Alex Caruso
on court: 105.4
off court: 114.3


The Bulls have had some really bad 3pt luck lately - although I hate to give it all to luck, as the Spurs got open 3 after open 3 in going 16 of 37 and beating the Bulls, but the Blazers went 18 of 39 on much harder shots and the Bulls still won by 14.
   2225. asinwreck Posted: January 31, 2022 at 10:32 AM (#6063170)
That game had serious Don Nelson-Paul Westhead c. 1991 vibes in the first quarter.

The Bulls' defense is going to be tested with both Caruso and Ball out until March. The silver lining is that Ayo Dosunmu seems to be able to adjust his game depending on team needs. Given an extended run with starter's minutes, maybe his defensive will improve enough that three weeks from now the team's defensive rating without Caruso will be a little better.
   2226. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: January 31, 2022 at 10:32 AM (#6063171)
Bucks-Nets in the first round feels like a real possibility at this point.
   2227. DCA Posted: January 31, 2022 at 11:17 AM (#6063181)
Trades get a lot harder without Ingles' salary available.

He can still be traded if injured, no? As the Jazz would probably being buying from a bad team, Ingles wouldn't have value to a trade partner anyway except as salary-matching. Might make a trade more likely, actually.
   2228. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: January 31, 2022 at 11:21 AM (#6063182)
I know that it's weird, but I'm kind of hoping that the Wovles do nothing much more than maybe move some salary around at the deadline. I'd like them to push for the 6 seed without making any sort of big move, mostly because I don't see anyone that they could realistically get who would be worth moving for, on net? They need a four, and a more reliable backup PG than Beverly (who has been very good, but injured). Like, maybe you get off of Layman's money or something -- the Wovles are way too close to the tax for a .500 team -- but don't blow it up for Jerami Grant. Turner, maybe, but his foot is troubling.
   2229. spivey Posted: January 31, 2022 at 11:26 AM (#6063184)
Bucks-Nets in the first round feels like a real possibility at this point.


Both are in danger of being the 7 seed. Milwaukee's had their big 3 for their last 2 blowout losses. Divincenzo has been terrible since he's been back, and Lopez is still out. It's not a great situation right now. I'm surprised they can't get Robin Lopez for nothing for Orlando. They need all of the Lopez things - team rebounding, rim protection.
   2230. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 31, 2022 at 11:44 AM (#6063189)
I want the Wolves to be aware of who they are. A young team, with obvious limitations and needs, and somewhat limited assets. If you can find a really good trade, either for short or long term improvement, then do it, but for now be happy with the large year-over-year improvement. Let the young players get better, try to keep some stability (coaching and players) and don't spend assets heavily just to make a splash this year.
   2231. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 31, 2022 at 12:44 PM (#6063198)
Are Robin Lopez and Thad Young going to be traded or are they likely buyout guys? Both could absolutely help a number of teams and they're just not playing much. I still am surprised Pops hasn't found a way to make Thad even more valuable.
   2232. tshipman Posted: January 31, 2022 at 12:50 PM (#6063199)
I want the Wolves to be aware of who they are. A young team, with obvious limitations and needs, and somewhat limited assets. If you can find a really good trade, either for short or long term improvement, then do it, but for now be happy with the large year-over-year improvement. Let the young players get better, try to keep some stability (coaching and players) and don't spend assets heavily just to make a splash this year.


This is good stuff, let's keep this idea on the table. Here's an idea, though, what if the Wolves were to pivot and make a series of short term moves designed to keep our star happy and chase the 5th seed. Then, after we lose in the first round, we could fire the coach. Seems like it fits the Timberwolves tradition a bit better.

Are Robin Lopez and Thad Young going to be traded or are they likely buyout guys? Both could absolutely help a number of teams and they're just not playing much. I still am surprised Pops hasn't found a way to make Thad even more valuable.


I think both guys could be traded if you offered enough. I don't think you're going to get them for a second or maybe even two seconds.
   2233. asinwreck Posted: January 31, 2022 at 01:36 PM (#6063202)
The weird thing about Thad Young this year is he seems like the kind of ball-distributing vet who'd be perfect guiding the Spurs' second unit. He also would be a useful player on several contenders, most of whom (Nets, Nuggets, Bulls*) would prefer him as a buyout candidate.

*I know the Spurs would have to trade him to a new team who'd buy him out before the Bulls would be able to sign him. He'd still look great on this roster.
   2234. tshipman Posted: January 31, 2022 at 02:04 PM (#6063205)
Do you guys think that Thad would take a buyout? He hasn't really seen any signs of decline, and if you start the min contract game, it can be hard to get off of that.

I would guess that he would go to the Nets over the Bulls, but he's a good fit on a number of teams.
   2235. asinwreck Posted: January 31, 2022 at 02:11 PM (#6063206)
I suspect he might, though I would also hope that the Spurs have had conversations with him about their intentions. His contract is useful if they are interested in a deadline deal for a declining veteran and draft pick compensation. Are they? We'll know soon.
   2236. jmurph Posted: January 31, 2022 at 02:44 PM (#6063212)
I think Thad is worth an asset- some kind of young change of scenery guy and/or a protected pick. He still seems like he could slide into the rotation of basically every team in the league.
   2237. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 31, 2022 at 02:45 PM (#6063213)
Do you guys think that Thad would take a buyout? He hasn't really seen any signs of decline, and if you start the min contract game, it can be hard to get off of that.

Are those offers gonna be any better if he's coming off a year full of DNP-CD on a losing team? His best chance of getting another decent contract is playing well, and likely a notable role for a contender. Then again, he signed with the Bulls they were bad and going to continue to be bad. So...

I would guess that he would go to the Nets over the Bulls, but he's a good fit on a number of teams.

He might pick the team that offers him the most PT - he would be a great fit on all of the East top 6 but probably would play the most on Philly or Chicago. I don't know how much PT he'd get in GS or PHX, but he'd also work on UTA, MEM, LAL, LAC, etc. He's the type of guy that should have a role on any team (coke to jmurph) - which is why it's so weird to me he's buried there.
   2238. DCA Posted: January 31, 2022 at 02:58 PM (#6063215)
Is Thad Young the George Hill of forwards?
   2239. Booey Posted: January 31, 2022 at 03:59 PM (#6063224)
JIngles. :-(
   2240. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 31, 2022 at 04:22 PM (#6063226)
JIngles. :-(

Torn ACL for everyone's favorite gym teacher, and at 34 (and on an expiring contract) this is probably the end of his NBA career. He had an awfully good run for a guy who made it to the league as late as he did, but still a rough way for things to end, if this is in fact the end for him.
   2241. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: January 31, 2022 at 05:09 PM (#6063239)
Even at his age, that still feels too pessimistic. Who's the last guy who's career was ended by just an ACL tear? They said no other damage, so he could be back for the 2nd half next year if he signs with someone.
   2242. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: January 31, 2022 at 05:15 PM (#6063240)
He was looking noticeably slower already this season, and not like he could lose much speed/lateral quickness and remain a decent defender. I also would not be surprised if he decides the grind is not worth it so he could spend more time with his family. But who knows, he loves playing by all accounts, and with his shooting and personality I could see the Jazz or another team wanting him if he recovers. I hope he can (and wants to) come back, but his career is already a major success.
   2243. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: February 01, 2022 at 01:12 AM (#6063306)
Sorry about Ingles' injury.
   2244. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: February 01, 2022 at 11:26 AM (#6063331)
when ingles was trying to get with the clips i thought "why are they wasting their time with this guy?" glad to be wrong and i hope his career can continue on his terms, should he want it to.

jazz have to trade his contract for a playoff piece, no?
   2245. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: February 01, 2022 at 11:42 AM (#6063337)
Yeah, I think this makes moving Joey Tingles a lock. Maybe with a future 1st?
   2246. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: February 01, 2022 at 12:38 PM (#6063346)
that'd be complicated by protections (which could be negotiated) on their already outgoing 1sts (that aside, they're already -2 net on both future 1sts and future 2nds)
might have to otherwise go far into the future if they deal a first
   2247. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: February 01, 2022 at 12:38 PM (#6063347)
Rich Hoffman @rich_hofmann
For no reason at all, it’s worth noting that Joel Embiid couldn’t be taken off the floor for two minutes against the Raptors (an elite opponent) in 2019. Embiid still figured out that his offensive game wasn’t good enough. So he worked on it and now you’re seeing the results.

   2248. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: February 01, 2022 at 01:36 PM (#6063358)
I am both fascinated and completely tired of the Simmons story; I hate when I see another story about him and then I read it anyway. Even ones that are supposedly meant to cast him in a positive light always come off very unfavorably and it may be because it's almost impossible to not to make him sound...well, like he sounds. Yet, somehow, today, for the first time, I finally find myself thinking a positive thought or two about him and this situation.

Also, today's piece actually has some real news in addition to more gossipy stuff:
The COVID-related protocols that created an artificial boundary between Simmons and the team are no longer an issue. As an unvaccinated player, he had to take a daily COVID-19 test in order to enter the facility. But that requirement was dropped after sources say Simmons chose to get vaccinated.
   2249. tshipman Posted: February 01, 2022 at 01:41 PM (#6063362)
Rich Hoffman @rich_hofmann
For no reason at all, it’s worth noting that Joel Embiid couldn’t be taken off the floor for two minutes against the Raptors (an elite opponent) in 2019. Embiid still figured out that his offensive game wasn’t good enough. So he worked on it and now you’re seeing the results.


You know, that series has always kind of overrated Embiid. The Raptors shot 26% on 3s when he was on the court and 38% when he was off. The 76ers shot 20% on 3s when he was off, and 37% when he was on.

Embiid was good, and important in that series, no mistake, but the raw on/off from a small sample size overrated his performance and got repeated over and over again.
   2250. smileyy Posted: February 01, 2022 at 01:48 PM (#6063364)
You know, that series has always kind of overrated Embiid. The Raptors shot 26% on 3s when he was on the court and 38% when he was off. The 76ers shot 20% on 3s when he was off, and 37% when he was on.


3P variance, or an actual effect that Embiid had on the court? I'm not sure which one you're arguing :)
   2251. smileyy Posted: February 01, 2022 at 01:49 PM (#6063365)
Effect on the court: having a rim protector like Embiid behind you lets you play more aggressive defense out on the 3P line. Embiid drawing double-teams on O will open up 3P shooters.
   2252. tshipman Posted: February 01, 2022 at 01:52 PM (#6063366)
Effect on the court: having a rim protector like Embiid behind you lets you play more aggressive defense out on the 3P line. Embiid drawing double-teams on O will open up 3P shooters.


Sure, I agree with that, but you're talking about marginal impact. The 76ers during the (edit: 2019) regular season gave up a 34% opponent 3p% with Embiid on the court (higher than when he was off) and shot 35% with him off the court.

In a small sample playoff series, variance explains more of that than Embiid.
   2253. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: February 01, 2022 at 04:03 PM (#6063392)
Tom Moore @TomMoorePhilly
Exclusive #NBA story on Doc Rivers' reaction to the latest from the #Sixers' Ben Simmons: 'Some of this stuff I laugh at ... The people that can't (handle the truth) probably don't handle me well. And I don't lose an ounce of sleep over it' https://t.co/awaUELQT1V #76ersPreview pic.twitter.com/YJQhpTkA4E

   2254. tshipman Posted: February 01, 2022 at 04:23 PM (#6063393)
'Some of this stuff I laugh at ... The people that can't (handle the truth) probably don't handle me well. And I don't lose an ounce of sleep over it'


Is everyone who plays or coaches in the NBA actually a middle-aged woman?
   2255. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: February 01, 2022 at 04:37 PM (#6063398)
That's a harmful stereotype, people of all ages and genders can post inspirational cliches and minions memes on facebook.
   2256. tshipman Posted: February 01, 2022 at 05:05 PM (#6063405)
That's a harmful stereotype, people of all ages and genders can post inspirational cliches and minions memes on facebook.


Great point, and I apologize for the harmful stereotype.
   2257. smileyy Posted: February 01, 2022 at 05:38 PM (#6063411)
I'm going to need to speak to your manager.
   2258. PJ Martinez Posted: February 01, 2022 at 06:59 PM (#6063415)
A few pages back we were talking about whether there was something about the way Phoenix plays that helps centers put up really good numbers. Bismack Biyombo has now played 273 minutes with the team and, at age 29, is putting up the best numbers of his career, by a wide margin in some categories. FWIW.
   2259. tshipman Posted: February 01, 2022 at 07:38 PM (#6063418)
A few pages back we were talking about whether there was something about the way Phoenix plays that helps centers put up really good numbers. Bismack Biyombo has now played 273 minutes with the team and, at age 29, is putting up the best numbers of his career, by a wide margin in some categories. FWIW.


I feel like the last sentence was written before checking Biyombo's age and then someone said to themselves, "Wow, Biyombo is only 29? I thought he was older than that."
   2260. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: February 01, 2022 at 07:49 PM (#6063420)
I feel like the last sentence was written before checking Biyombo's age and then someone said to themselves, "Wow, Biyombo is only 29? I thought he was older than that."
say what you will about the charlotte hornets inability to draft and develop a core group of good young talent, because at the very least, they do keep mediocre young talent employed for entire decades.
   2261. smileyy Posted: February 01, 2022 at 08:03 PM (#6063421)
I would have pegged Biyombo as 32-35. Then again, I thought Thaddeus Young had aged out of the league, so...
   2262. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: February 01, 2022 at 08:04 PM (#6063422)
   2263. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: February 01, 2022 at 08:51 PM (#6063425)
Isaiah Jackson, one of my favorite rookies and a guy I selected in the BBTF mock draft, has been 6th in the Pacers' pecking order for PF/C minutes behind Sabonis, Turner, Torrey Craig, Oshae Brissett, and Goga Bitadze.

Well last night four of those guys ahead of him were hurt or in protocols, so Jackson got his first NBA start. And he did not disappoint.

Jackson put up an efficient 26 points, 10 rebounds, 2 blocks, a steal, and no turnovers in 29 minutes, leading the Pacers to a win over the Clippers. He outhustled everyone in the opposing frontcourt, and when the Clippers went small, which was often, he simply scored over the top of them as the PnR dive man, on alley oops, and following offensive rebounds. Good times.
   2264. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: February 01, 2022 at 09:00 PM (#6063426)
Denver not really putting up much of a fight tonight. Yeesh.
   2265. GregD Posted: February 01, 2022 at 09:01 PM (#6063427)
Jackson put up an efficient 26 points, 10 rebounds, 2 blocks, a steal, and no turnovers in 29 minutes, leading the Pacers to a win over the Clippers. He outhustled everyone in the opposing frontcourt, and when the Clippers went small, which was often, he simply scored over the top of them as the PnR dive man, on alley oops, and following offensive rebounds. Good times.
He really punished the Draymond-less Warriors a week ago or so. I like him a lot from his days at UK.
   2266. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: February 01, 2022 at 10:03 PM (#6063430)
Woof. Taurean Prince going bananas. It's just One Of Those Nights for the Nuggets, I guess.
   2267. spivey Posted: February 02, 2022 at 08:56 AM (#6063461)
I know we've talked about it a lot, but the Eastern Conference standings are really congested, and it's looking like it'll be like that to the end. In the loss column the gap between the 1 seed and the 8 seed is 5 games. I don't ever remember anything like that. The closest I could remember in recent times is the West in 2014-15 where after the Warriors, there were 4 teams either 55-27 or 56-26, but that was only half the seedings. This led to the Spurs and Clippers playing in an epic first round series, and the Clippers had for my money their worst meltdown of the Chris Paul/Doc era in the second round, losing to a Houston team 3 in a row that they were much better than.

But back to the East, every seed is wide open right now (though I think the top 10 are most likely set, now). Some of the teams at the bottom of the conference are playing the best basketball. Toronto's been good, but so has Boston. They've had several blowout wins recently, and their SRS/Net Rtg are 6th and 7th in the league, respectively.
   2268. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: February 02, 2022 at 09:53 AM (#6063468)
Yeah, the East is nuts. And there's almost no way that the best teams will be the highest seeds, what with the injuries, the COVIDs, the Kyries, etc. Like you said, I'm not sure any of the top 6 teams in the East are definitely better than the next few teams, so there are going to be good teams losing in the first round no matter how it shakes out. The way the schedule is set up, it's also probably going to be hard for any one of those teams to pull away so the seeding is not going to be close to set for a while.

---

The Bulls overall defense is so, so bad right now. It's not all just missing Caruso and Ball either. I've only seen Orlando play 3 times this year - their 3 games against the Bulls - and they absolutely don't look like the worst team with the 3rd worst offense. Part of that is WCJ deciding to play like an All Star against the Bulls (if he played half this well consistently the Bulls may have never traded him), part of it is because the Wagner brothers both look like a hybrid of Luka and Dirk. The Bulls have a brutal 4 games in 5 days coming up (actually 5 in 7 if you add in a game @CHA) - @TOR Thu, @IND Fri, PHI afternoon game Sun, PHX. The Bulls very easily could go 0-4 and end up with a negative point differential by the end of it.
   2269. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: February 02, 2022 at 10:00 AM (#6063470)
I know we've talked about it a lot, but the Eastern Conference standings are really congested, and it's looking like it'll be like that to the end. In the loss column the gap between the 1 seed and the 8 seed is 5 games. I don't ever remember anything like that. The closest I could remember in recent times is the West in 2014-15 where after the Warriors, there were 4 teams either 55-27 or 56-26, but that was only half the seedings.

The 2009-10 West was just like this. Every team with 50-57 wins and an SRS in the +3 to +5 range. The Lakers were the #1 seed and won the title, but their first round matchup against ascendant OKC was close to a coin flip.
   2270. Fourth True Outcome Posted: February 02, 2022 at 12:07 PM (#6063484)
But back to the East, every seed is wide open right now (though I think the top 10 are most likely set, now). Some of the teams at the bottom of the conference are playing the best basketball. Toronto's been good, but so has Boston. They've had several blowout wins recently, and their SRS/Net Rtg are 6th and 7th in the league, respectively.

The Celtics, having spent most of the year playing to the level of the competition and closing games poorly, have of late looked great, especially the starting lineup, and they've been putting away ostensibly worse teams and good teams missing key players like you would expect a team of their net rating etc to be able to. I'm very curious to see if they can carry this momentum forward or if this is another phase and they'll be losing games they should win in a week. Everything has been pointing in the right direction, but after the season they've had it seems premature to trust them yet.
   2271. tshipman Posted: February 02, 2022 at 12:48 PM (#6063491)
I guess I think that the Bucks and the Heat are the best teams in the East, but that view is more based on pre-season expectations and fuzzy logic than I am fully comfortable with.

Milwaukee is weird and they have been pretty mediocre even with their big three available for games, but Giannis/Middleton/Jrue are still +10 for the season. They won the championship and I trust their defense more than any other unit in the East.

Miami ... I have to admit it's hard to find the case for Miami being a great team in the data. The Heat have had a lot of injuries, but Bam/Butler/Lowry are just +3 together. Butler's played better with Bam and Lowry out than with them on. Lowry and Bam work better together without Butler on the court. I guess it just comes down to trusting Spo, and that the talent will work itself out.

   2272. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: February 02, 2022 at 01:04 PM (#6063495)
I know we've talked about it a lot, but the Eastern Conference standings are really congested, and it's looking like it'll be like that to the end. In the loss column the gap between the 1 seed and the 8 seed is 5 games. I don't ever remember anything like that. The closest I could remember in recent times is the West in 2014-15 where after the Warriors, there were 4 teams either 55-27 or 56-26, but that was only half the seedings. This led to the Spurs and Clippers playing in an epic first round series, and the Clippers had for my money their worst meltdown of the Chris Paul/Doc era in the second round, losing to a Houston team 3 in a row that they were much better than.
the sixers are sitting in the 2-seed, so that much at least seems right to me.

w/ embiid: 27-11
w/o embiid: 4-8
   2273. asinwreck Posted: February 02, 2022 at 02:02 PM (#6063505)
What plausible Simmons deal would best position the Sixers to get the #1 seed this year?
   2274. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: February 02, 2022 at 02:13 PM (#6063508)
What plausible Simmons deal would best position the Sixers to get the #1 seed this year?

"i'm ready to come back and i'm all in for you, jo. whatever you need. let's win this ####### thing.



"...and when we win, i get that 18+ million dollars back, right daryl?"
   2275. asinwreck Posted: February 02, 2022 at 02:14 PM (#6063509)
Plausible.
   2276. DCA Posted: February 02, 2022 at 02:16 PM (#6063510)
I like Derrick White + Thad Young, but that's my own concoction not something I've heard rumored.

The biggest thing the 76ers can do is get a star, but that seems unlikely. After that, upgrading the bench, which is bad for a contender, but that might not require Simmons.
   2277. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: February 02, 2022 at 02:18 PM (#6063511)
I like Derrick White + Thad Young, but that's my own concoction not something I've heard rumored.
there actually was a rumor over the summer:
O'Conner says the 76ers wanted a haul from the Spurs that included the Spurs sending Philadelphia one of their young core players and much more. "There's so much stuff floating out there right now about the Sixers having outrageous demands like wanting four first-round draft picks, and three pick swaps, and a young player from the Spurs they say now. All these deals you hear about are outrageous. Nobody will do it for Ben Simmons."
   2278. DCA Posted: February 02, 2022 at 02:24 PM (#6063513)
This also works. Picks from NYK to both other teams.
   2279. DCA Posted: February 02, 2022 at 02:27 PM (#6063516)
And of course, the market value of Bradley Beal playing poorly has dropped similarly to Simmons not playing at all. So that could still work but I think both sides say no.
   2280. tshipman Posted: February 02, 2022 at 02:39 PM (#6063519)
This also works. Picks from NYK to both other teams.


I don't know if that deal even makes the Sixers better. Kemba is a liability, tbh. Jerami Grant is pretty overrated, and pushes Tobias to a worse position.

***

What plausible Simmons deal would best position the Sixers to get the #1 seed this year?


Well, the biggest hole on the Sixers is the PG and SF positions. Tyrese Maxey is more potential than results.

I think Gordon Hayward is maybe available? Simmons for Hayward works straight up, and could be supplemented with draft capital from Charlotte.
   2281. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: February 02, 2022 at 02:41 PM (#6063521)
This also works. Picks from NYK to both other teams.
i think this would work out better from an asset allocation point of view, with an obligatory handful of picks thrown in.

or maybe something more like this to give the sixers more actual firepower, with picks again flowing as needed.
Well, the biggest hole on the Sixers is the PG and SF positions. Tyrese Maxey is more potential than results.
fwiw, maxey is at least shooting 40% from beyond the arc.

he's not good enough yet, but he's not a liability, either. if the sixers (still) had a primary wing initiator (like, for instance, jimmy butler, rather than tobias tharris), maxey would be a reasonably competent 5th starter.
   2282. tshipman Posted: February 02, 2022 at 02:48 PM (#6063522)
he's not good enough yet, but he's not a liability, either. if the sixers (still) had a primary wing initiator (like, for instance, jimmy butler, rather than tobias tharris), maxey would be a reasonably competent 5th starter.


I agree with this, which is why I tried to get that player.
   2283. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: February 02, 2022 at 02:54 PM (#6063527)
I think Gordon Hayward is maybe available? Simmons for Hayward works straight up, and could be supplemented with draft capital from Charlotte.
i don't hate it.
   2284. jmurph Posted: February 02, 2022 at 03:07 PM (#6063530)
i don't hate it.

So Charlotte is giving up the better, cheaper player in this deal just for fun?
   2285. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: February 02, 2022 at 03:15 PM (#6063534)
So Charlotte is giving up the better, cheaper player in this deal just for fun?

Are you new here?
   2286. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: February 02, 2022 at 03:15 PM (#6063536)
So Charlotte is giving up the better, cheaper, older and more injury prone player in this deal just for fun?
ftfy.
Are you new here?
also true.
   2287. jmurph Posted: February 02, 2022 at 03:19 PM (#6063537)
Are you new here?

Well there are often obviously fake stiggles trades, but I think he actually means this one.



   2288. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: February 02, 2022 at 03:28 PM (#6063539)
Well there are often obviously fake stiggles trades, but I think he actually means this one.
anytime there's a plumlee on the table, you know 57i66135 means business.
   2289. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 02, 2022 at 04:24 PM (#6063554)
Ant is putting together a nice season.

EDWARDS (2021-22 SEASON) TRUE-SHOOTING PERCENTAGE
October 49.6%
November 54.4%
December 59.0%
January 60.2%

Ant and Steph
   2290. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: February 02, 2022 at 05:30 PM (#6063562)
Bally Sports New Orleans @BallySportsNO
Brandon Ingram was ejected from tonight's game for "taunting" former teammate Frank Jackson after a block
#WBD

https://twitter.com/BallySportsNO/status/1488702548190113792
"I thought Frank was going to have my back and tell the ref that we was homies."

Brandon Ingram on his ejection after jokingly taunting former teammate Frank Jackson. pic.twitter.com/1dfqXIKYvm

— Ballislife.com (@Ballislife) February 2, 2022
   2291. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: February 02, 2022 at 05:49 PM (#6063569)
Kinda similar to that, Cole Anthony got a technical for hanging on the rim after a dunk. Can't remember the last time I've seen that call...though in the refs defense, I haven't seen someone hang on the rim like that in a long time either.
   2292. tshipman Posted: February 02, 2022 at 06:01 PM (#6063572)
That double pump motion is pretty much always a T, which is why you don't see it.
   2293. DCA Posted: February 02, 2022 at 06:04 PM (#6063574)
Speaking of Brandon Ingram, he could be a trade match for Simmons. Philly gets a nice wing for the here and now, and the Pelicans are going nowhere in their current form, so why not roll the dice?
   2294. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: February 02, 2022 at 06:43 PM (#6063579)
Speaking of Brandon Ingram, he could be a trade match for Simmons. Philly gets a nice wing for the here and now, and the Pelicans are going nowhere in their current form, so why not roll the dice?
simmons would be a great compliment to zion and jonas and jaxson and willy.
   2295. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: February 02, 2022 at 06:46 PM (#6063581)
This works. And Sixers could then do a Thybulle-Ingram-Harris-Valanciunas-Embiid lineup.
   2296. smileyy Posted: February 02, 2022 at 06:49 PM (#6063582)
That double pump motion is pretty much always a T, which is why you don't see it.


Yeah, you get one free swing to find a landing space. That double-pump/flex on the rim runs the risk of tearing the rim off.
   2297. smileyy Posted: February 02, 2022 at 07:01 PM (#6063583)
zion


In order to ensure that Zion has some kind of successful career, I'll do the same thing I did with Joel Embiid: take the bet that he'll never play another NBA game again.
   2298. asinwreck Posted: February 02, 2022 at 10:14 PM (#6063604)
I'll be curious to see how Memphis fares in the playoffs. They may not have enough to beat Phoenix or Golden State in a series, but they've been fun to watch.

Desmond Bane got under Julius Randle's skin tonight. The Knicks lost their composure down the stretch despite getting to as close as six points.
   2299. Harlond Posted: February 02, 2022 at 11:18 PM (#6063620)
Lu Dort scores 14 points in overtime to lead OKC to a road win over Dallas. Overcame 40 points from Luka. Difference was Luka was cold in OT, Dort was hot.

UVA note, Mamadi Diakite, currently on his third 10-day contract with the Thunder, got the start at center and corralled 10 rebounds, a steal, and a block in 17 minutes. Go Hoos.
   2300. Harlond Posted: February 03, 2022 at 01:10 AM (#6063634)
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