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Friday, October 15, 2021

NBA 2021-2022 Season Thread

I estimate there are maybe 10-12 Primates left on this site, and none of us want to post this thread.

Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: October 15, 2021 at 11:39 AM | 4178 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: get me out of philly, nba, off top

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   2301. Harlond Posted: February 03, 2022 at 01:10 AM (#6063635)
Lu Dort scores 14 points in overtime to lead OKC to a road win over Dallas. Overcame 40 points from Luka. Difference was Luka was cold in OT, Dort was hot.

UVA note, Mamadi Diakite, currently on his third 10-day contract with the Thunder, got the start at center and corralled 10 rebounds, a steal, and a block in 17 minutes. Go Hoos.
   2302. Fourth True Outcome Posted: February 03, 2022 at 03:30 AM (#6063641)
@NiceSheehan
Rob [Williams] still on pace for more blocks than fouls this year.

After tonight's game

89 BLKs, 86 Fouls

   2303. PJ Martinez Posted: February 03, 2022 at 09:11 AM (#6063653)
The sense one gets from these opinions, for what it's worth, is that the trade deadline will not be terribly active or dramatic.
   2304. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: February 03, 2022 at 09:24 AM (#6063655)
Last night was apparently bad loss night - Nets lost to Kagnz, Sixers to Wiz, Cavs to Rockets, Mavs to Thunder, and less so but Pacers to Magic.
   2305. PJ Martinez Posted: February 03, 2022 at 09:36 AM (#6063661)
I think every Pacers loss counts as a good loss at this point, but otherwise yeah.
   2306. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: February 03, 2022 at 11:10 AM (#6063681)
Sure, but every loss to the Magic is a bad loss. I remain flabbergasted at the Pacers this year, especially after bringing back Carlisle.
   2307. tshipman Posted: February 03, 2022 at 11:13 AM (#6063684)
How certain are we that James Harden will be better than Ben Simmons over the next 5 years?
   2308. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: February 03, 2022 at 11:32 AM (#6063694)
How certain are we that James Harden will be better than Jarrett Allen over the next 5 years?
   2309. jmurph Posted: February 03, 2022 at 12:25 PM (#6063704)
Harden will be 33 at the start of next season and has given no reason to make anyone think he's going to age well physically. That contract could be pretty devastating pretty quickly.

But Harden/Embiid is immediately a Finals contending tandem, right?
   2310. nick swisher hygiene Posted: February 03, 2022 at 12:40 PM (#6063706)
I go back to my semi-serious proposal from a few pages back. There are as many as half a dozen geniuine contenders in the East. Two of them have significant assets that for peculiar reasons cannot be utilized. Swap Kyrie and Simmons, each team has gotta be SIGNIFICANTLY stronger. Picks can be involved if necessary. Do neither of these teams care about playing in the Finals? Why is “do something after the season is over” even in play?
   2311. tshipman Posted: February 03, 2022 at 12:43 PM (#6063708)
But Harden/Embiid is immediately a Finals contending tandem, right?


I am increasingly less certain as the season goes on that this statement, which I thought was obvious at the beginning of the season, is true.

Harden had the worst game of his career last night. The best case scenario is that he's checked out and unhappy on a team that he forced a trade to a year ago.
   2312. jmurph Posted: February 03, 2022 at 12:44 PM (#6063709)
Do neither of these teams care about playing in the Finals? Why is “do something after the season is over” even in play?

Kyrie and Embiid would be very good together right up until Kyrie gets hurt in the playoffs as is his custom.

I think Simmons is a monumentally terrible fit with Harden and Durant.
   2313. jmurph Posted: February 03, 2022 at 12:47 PM (#6063710)
Harden had the worst game of his career last night. The best case scenario is that he's checked out and unhappy on a team that he forced a trade to a year ago.

Actual LOL on this one. But also totally accurate.

Honestly thinking about it more I'm not sure Harden and Embiid are a great basketball fit, either. I'd still lean towards the sum of the two being pretty effective.
   2314. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: February 03, 2022 at 01:03 PM (#6063712)
But Harden/Embiid is immediately a Finals contending tandem, right?

This year, in this East? Yes. Next year? Eh, hard to say but much less certain than this year.
   2315. tshipman Posted: February 03, 2022 at 01:33 PM (#6063719)
   2316. GregD Posted: February 03, 2022 at 02:12 PM (#6063728)
Was at Kings game last night, and however bad Harden looked in stats or on TV, he looked even worse in person. He had some pretty passes, but no ability to enforce himself on the game even with the Kings defense out there. And I actually thought he looked like he was trying, which made it sad. He kept demanding the ball up top and trying to run the offense, while Kyrie stood daydreaming in the corner.
   2317. asinwreck Posted: February 03, 2022 at 03:24 PM (#6063741)
Yeah, the Kyrie-Harden backcourt in the second half was shockingly bad. Nash afterwards said they looked tired. Irving looked comatose. Sacramento is not known for its tenacious backcourt defense. That game looked like a typical Nets game before Kenny Atkinson got hired. Listless, no defense, and sloppy turnovers.
   2318. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: February 03, 2022 at 04:57 PM (#6063752)
Nets lost to Kagnz, Sixers to Wiz, Cavs to Rockets, Mavs to Thunder, and less so but Pacers to Magic.


Weird year. That is why it seems like a time Phoenix could win although I still would not bet on it. Hollinger, who goes a little Stan about teams like Phoenix, wrote about it again the other day.

   2319. asinwreck Posted: February 03, 2022 at 06:56 PM (#6063761)
This looks like a showcase.

Jeff McDonald @JMcDonald_SAEN
Having not appeared in 22 of the previous 25 games, Thaddeus Young is poised to start his first game of the season for the short-handed Spurs.
   2320. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: February 03, 2022 at 10:21 PM (#6063778)
Brady Hawk @BradyHawk305
Jimmy Butler on Tyler Herro not being named an All-Star today: "I think he's been playing at an All-Star level...He deserves it. But he has a long career and he'll be a multiple All-Star." @5ReasonsSports
Brady Hawk @BradyHawk305
Erik Spoelstra on Tyler Herro not being named an All-Star: "I wouldn't slam the door on that yet." Says with injuries in the All Star game, he thinks he should still be considered @5ReasonsSports
Mark Medina @MarkG_Medina
Lakers coach Frank Vogel on Anthony Davis & Russell Westbrook not making the All-Star team: "It’s a little surprising. I think obviously we feel like those guys should be on there." Vogel then added the exclusions are "probably more indicative of our win-loss record."
Paul Jones @Paul__Jones
Congrats to All-Star @Fred VanVleet who becomes the 4th undrafted player to be named all-star Ben Wallace, John Starks and Brad Miller #rtz #Raptors
Matthew Tynan @Matthew_Tynan
Technical fouls this season: Heat 41 Spurs 4 That’s a helluva stat from the CW35 broadcast.

NBA on TNT @NBAonTNT
"He acting like a baby.”

@Shaq went IN on Ben Simmons and says the Sixers star DM'd him mad for comments Shaq recently made on @NBAonTNT

More on #TheBigPodcast: http://bit.ly/3ARWte6
https://twitter.com/NBAonTNT/status/1489253353083211784
   2321. smileyy Posted: February 03, 2022 at 10:44 PM (#6063779)
A few pages back we were talking about whether there was something about the way Phoenix plays that helps centers put up really good numbers. Bismack Biyombo has now played 273 minutes with the team and, at age 29, is putting up the best numbers of his career, by a wide margin in some categories.


And a DNP-CD tonight, in Ayton's return.
   2322. spivey Posted: February 03, 2022 at 10:45 PM (#6063780)
I love Middleton. But he has in no way been better than Jrue this year. Or a handful of other guys. Especially for guys like Harden, Tatum and Middleton who have multiple to many, I’d rather reward the guys who have actually been really good this year. That’s not Herro of course.
   2323. smileyy Posted: February 03, 2022 at 10:47 PM (#6063781)
Tyler Herro, of the -0.9 BPM.

At least that's gotten better every year?
   2324. PJ Martinez Posted: February 03, 2022 at 11:25 PM (#6063786)
Especially for guys like Harden, Tatum and Middleton who have multiple to many, I’d rather reward the guys who have actually been really good this year.
Seems like all of those guys have been really good this year? Not quite great — and obviously Harden is well off his usual performance — but nonetheless really good, overall. (All-Star level, basically.) It's also not immediately clear to me that Holiday has been flagrantly superior to any of them — better than Middleton, sure, but it doesn't seem egregious, at least on the surface. I realize someone who's watched more Bucks games than I have would know better on that comparison specifically.
   2325. jmurph Posted: February 04, 2022 at 07:40 AM (#6063794)
That’s not Herro of course.

This is somehow going to be a thing that Butler/Spoelstra speak into existence and he'll be a reserve, but man, he would be one of the worst All Stars in a long time.

Jarrett Allen is a name I'm seeing a lot on twitter, Jrue being the other one. But I thought the picks were generally fine. All the missed games make it a little weird this year.
   2326. spivey Posted: February 04, 2022 at 08:39 AM (#6063798)
Middleton got off to a poor start this year (Tatum did too, I think), so he's caught up recently. But, yeah, Jrue's impact numbers are way better this year, and his box score stats are just as good (less scoring but much better assists/turnovers). He's been very good defensively, and Middleton has been just ok. Middleton's had a bad year taking care of the basketball (as has Harden).

I don't have any particular problem with any one of these guys in a vacuum, I just think Jarrett Allen and Jrue have had better years. I think there's a lot of inertia around all-star games. Maybe in some respects, there should be, they affect bonuses, HOF credentials, etc.

Harden has great box score stats but I'm reluctant to say his play this year is driving winning basketball. But Middleton will now have made 3 in the last 4. Holiday has only made 1, years ago in Philadelphia. It's a good reminder how hard it is to make the allstar game, especially as a guard. I feel like Middleton is getting credit for all of the big shots he hit in the playoffs last year, basically.
   2327. spivey Posted: February 04, 2022 at 09:14 AM (#6063803)
I think Washington is going to greatly regret not dealing Bradley Beal when they could and when his value was high. Same Portland/Dame, though I think Dame's much more of a team legend, so that can make it tricky.

I don't think Beal has ever been worth the supermax, and I think he's just barely worthy of a normal max now. Like, he probably deserves such a contract, but I don't think there's excess value on it.
   2328. PJ Martinez Posted: February 04, 2022 at 09:24 AM (#6063805)
2326: That all makes sense. I think Allen should be on the team; he seems to me the most deserving of all the guys we're discussing (Tatum, Holiday, Harden, Middleton).
   2329. tshipman Posted: February 04, 2022 at 11:58 AM (#6063820)
Yeah, Jarett Allen is the guy who has a case for being snubbed. He's had more impact on a better team than basically the entire list of reserves.

***

I think Washington is going to greatly regret not dealing Bradley Beal when they could and when his value was high. Same Portland/Dame, though I think Dame's much more of a team legend, so that can make it tricky.


I kind of agree, kind of disagree. The real regret is going to be giving him this 5 year deal. Trading, not trading, those are about equal IMO.
   2330. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: February 04, 2022 at 01:30 PM (#6063839)
the legacy of linsanity:

On February 4, 2012, the struggling Knicks were gearing up for their third game in three nights—a byproduct of a lockout-shortened season during which the league pushed to make up for lost time. The deadline for contracts to become guaranteed for the remainder of the season was less than a week away, and as the New Jersey Nets visited Madison Square Garden, Lin’s NBA dreams hung in the balance. “So much stuff had to come together at the right moment—my back was against the wall,” Lin tells The Ringer. “That was going to be it for me. My agent had actually called me before the game and said, ‘If you don’t play well, tonight will probably be your last game in the NBA.’ … The amount of anxiety, the pressure, just the embarrassment that I was facing, if I would finally make it to the NBA and then just completely underperform and fizzle out—that would’ve been a really, really tough pill to swallow.”

Lin came off the bench to score 25 points and dish out seven assists in a much-needed win for the Knicks, who had just lost 11 of their past 13 games. Then, Lin dropped 28 points with eight assists in another win, against the Utah Jazz, two nights later. A couple of nights after that, Lin was crossing up 2010 no. 1 pick John Wall and dunking on the Washington Wizards in the team’s third straight win. Next came a duel against Kobe Bryant and the Los Angeles Lakers at the Garden, where Lin scored 38 points, including a dagger 3 in front of the Lakers bench. Against the Toronto Raptors on Valentine’s Day, he waved away incoming screens with the score tied and the clock waning, and delivered a game-winning triple just before the buzzer.

   2331. jmurph Posted: February 04, 2022 at 01:31 PM (#6063840)
“That was going to be it for me. My agent had actually called me before the game and said, ‘If you don’t play well, tonight will probably be your last game in the NBA.’

I really hope this is an exaggeration, because man, that's some terrible agent-ing!
   2332. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: February 04, 2022 at 01:37 PM (#6063842)
fun fact:

"linsanity" can also be pronounced as if it rhymes with "cincinnati." tmyk.
   2333. tshipman Posted: February 04, 2022 at 01:44 PM (#6063846)
I really hope this is an exaggeration, because man, that's some terrible agent-ing!


"Yeah, Jeremy, they're offering you a minimum, and I think you need to take it right now! We can't take the risk that they pull the signing bonus of an almost completed sandwich card!"
   2334. Harlond Posted: February 04, 2022 at 01:46 PM (#6063847)
I really hope this is an exaggeration, because man, that's some terrible agent-ing!
Well, but it did work. And Lin went on to earn $65 million in the NBA.
   2335. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: February 04, 2022 at 01:58 PM (#6063850)
Another Ringer piece, this one on Okongwu and the Hawks.

The 21-year-old is playing just half the game (23.2 minutes), but the Hawks are destroying opponents in those minutes (net rating of plus-7.7). Their defensive rating goes from 113.7 without him (no. 27 in the NBA) to 105.8 with him (no. 4). That may not be completely sustainable, but something real is happening.


It's obviously great news for the Hawks that Okongwu is looking like an impact player. Capela is still a good player, and under contract for three more years, but he and Bogdanovich could be nice trade pieces if they want to go that way.
   2336. PJ Martinez Posted: February 04, 2022 at 02:42 PM (#6063852)
The Clippers are trading Eric Bledsoe, Justise Winslow, Keon Johnson and future second-round pick to the Trail Blazers for Norman Powell and Robert Covington, sources tell ESPN.
   2337. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: February 04, 2022 at 03:01 PM (#6063854)
wat
   2338. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: February 04, 2022 at 03:05 PM (#6063856)
@LawMurrayTheNU
League source confirms to @theathletic
that Clippers are trading a 2025 Detroit 2nd round pick along with reserves Eric Bledsoe, Justise Winslow, Keon Johnson to Portland for Norman Powell and Robert Covington.


Powell's contract must be viewed as negative value, right? Otherwise wouldn't get this for Portland.
   2339. DCA Posted: February 04, 2022 at 03:23 PM (#6063858)
Everyone's a negative contract there, except Keon (rookie lottery ticket) and RoCo (expiring).

My first reaction was that Portland should have gotten a first. But if they like Keon, he's basically the same thing a first.
   2340. mike f Posted: February 04, 2022 at 03:24 PM (#6063859)
Bobby Marks
⁦‪@BobbyMarks42‬⁩
The trade will put Portland under the luxury tax.
The Clippers tax bill increases from $93.9M to $112.9M (+$19M).


   2341. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: February 04, 2022 at 03:39 PM (#6063863)
The Woj tweet calling Powell a "proven two-way wing" made me chuckle.
   2342. DCA Posted: February 04, 2022 at 03:44 PM (#6063864)
Thing about Portland, is that they have basically nothing on the books after this year. Just Dame, CJ, and one year of Nance. Bledsoe's not guaranteed next year, and he'll be waived.

With Dame and CJ in their early 30s, this is a 3 max guys move, but there aren't going to be any max guys who fit well with Dame and CJ available in FA (only Ayton, but he's RFA, and not the kind of max guy we are talking about here.

The other obvious option is getting Simmons + assets for Dame now (before Harden hits the market) and then filling out the roster OKC style (overpaid vets + with assets attached) with an aim to compete in a few years.
   2343. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: February 04, 2022 at 03:56 PM (#6063866)
Boy, was I wrong about Winslow. I thought he was the best player on Duke's championship team (teammates with Jahlil Okafor and Tyus Jones), and would be an Eric Gordon-type player in the NBA. His +/- looks okay, but it's safe to say that he hasn't panned out.

Nurkic has to be on the move any day now, right?
   2344. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: February 04, 2022 at 03:59 PM (#6063867)
The other obvious option is getting Simmons + assets for Dame now (before Harden hits the market) and then filling out the roster OKC style (overpaid vets + with assets attached) with an aim to compete in a few years.
trade machine: who says no?

   2345. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: February 04, 2022 at 04:07 PM (#6063868)
I weirdly like that for the Wovles?
   2346. asinwreck Posted: February 04, 2022 at 04:11 PM (#6063869)
This is pretty much what Portland wanted to do:
The deal moves Portland under the luxury tax threshold and expands LA's from $93.9 million to $112.9 million.

They also have likely kept the protected 2022 first that was in the Larry Nance Jr. trade, at least for another year as they should be lottery-bound.

Edit: Coke to mike f.
   2347. tshipman Posted: February 04, 2022 at 04:35 PM (#6063871)
I think that trade is a home run for the Clippers? The lux tax stuff is super surprising, but if Ballmer is willing to spend, then it makes their team pretty significantly better and reduces their dependency on Nic Batum.
   2348. tshipman Posted: February 04, 2022 at 04:54 PM (#6063873)
I think this is what people mean when they say the NBA has gotten soft.

“McDaniel prioritized manhood. Specifically, his own manhood. According to McDaniels’s teammates in Seattle, he often walked around the Sonics locker room fully erect after games, hanging towels on his hardened member. Also, he fought people-and he fought them constantly.”

   2349. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: February 04, 2022 at 04:59 PM (#6063874)
I think that trade is a home run for the Clippers? The lux tax stuff is super surprising, but if Ballmer is willing to spend, then it makes their team pretty significantly better and reduces their dependency on Nic Batum.

They must be pretty confident on Kawhi coming back this year, and PG not missing that much more time. Yeah, it's just money for Ballmer, and they're not giving up any future assets.

Also, pretty funny that Woj's ESPN story on the trade only mentions Covington in the first line about who's in the trade, but he has a glowing comment about everyone else in the deal.
   2350. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: February 04, 2022 at 05:10 PM (#6063876)
@ShamsCharania
Sources: The Philadelphia 76ers are expected to pursue Brooklyn's James Harden ahead of NBA trade deadline Thursday – and the Nets are now open to discussing a deal.


Here we go.

Also I think Ty Lue the other day said in an interview something to the effect of they know Kawhi is not coming back this season.
   2351. spivey Posted: February 04, 2022 at 05:25 PM (#6063878)
Simmons/Harden makes some sense. If they know Harden is out or are skiddish on supermaxing him, they have to move him.

They have so many future draft assets handed out, and just a couple of late prime KD years left, they can't be KD and a bunch of scrubs next year. Hard to see how they keep Kyrie unless NYC changes their laws. Which, even if they do, they could easily change them again to make him ineligible. It's just a market where I don't think you can trust an unvaxxed player to be allowed to consistently play.

I'm curious what Kyrie's trade value is around the league.

Edit: I heard on the Lowe Post one of the guests (Bontemps or Marks) saying they didn't think Simmons was a good fit on Brooklyn. I think he'd be a pretty good fit. They need more size, defense, and rebounding. Kyrie and Durant are two of the very best hard shot makers in the league, and can mostly get their offense with other guys just standing around. I don't think Simmons' spacing issues would be as big of a concern with those guys as with many others.
   2352. tshipman Posted: February 04, 2022 at 05:51 PM (#6063879)
You know, I will give Morey credit that compared to the offseason, Lillard and Harden both look much, much more gettable than they did previously.
   2353. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: February 04, 2022 at 06:16 PM (#6063881)
Brian Geltzeiler @BGeltzNBA
Here’s how you know the Clippers did well today. If we played the old “who says no” game to today’s trade, the Blazers would be saying no. They gave up two first for Covington and a stud in Gary Trent for Powell. Getting cap fodder and a 2025 2nd for those two is a failure


   2354. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: February 04, 2022 at 07:20 PM (#6063887)
The idea that they should have to give up multiple valuable trade chips for a disgruntled player who could outright walk away from Brooklyn in the summer has already been mocked internally. If Harden is in danger of actively sabotaging what the Nets want to build, as Charania reports here, the Sixers don't believe they should have to give up more than a multi-time All-Star in Simmons to get a deal done before February 10th.

"Brooklyn would love to get a 25-year old, multi-time All-Star who is under contract for multiple years in exchange for a guy who is unhappy and not under contract long term," one source said.
...
Take this as you will — as of Friday evening, team sources told PhillyVoice there has been no significant conversation between the Nets and Sixers regarding Harden
link
   2355. PJ Martinez Posted: February 04, 2022 at 07:30 PM (#6063890)
I see that negotiating through the press is well under way.
Brooklyn would love to get a 25-year old, multi-time All-Star who is afraid to shoot and has refused to play for half a season despite being under contract for multiple years
Noticed a few words missing. (I'd take him on Boston.)
   2356. Harlond Posted: February 04, 2022 at 08:47 PM (#6063896)
Jarrett Allen sending a message to the Commissioner with 24 points and 20 rebounds in 25 minutes.
   2357. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: February 04, 2022 at 09:47 PM (#6063901)
Kyle Neubeck @KyleNeubeck
turned on ESPN expecting to see another basketball game and there's a hockey player in a magician cape using a disappearing booth what the hell is this
   2358. asinwreck Posted: February 04, 2022 at 10:35 PM (#6063908)
Kyrie at -30 near the end of the 3rd quarter.
   2359. PJ Martinez Posted: February 04, 2022 at 11:08 PM (#6063911)
Nets are a half-game out of the play-in.
   2360. Harlond Posted: February 05, 2022 at 02:33 AM (#6063918)
The Cleveland-Charlotte game was fun to watch, but there was some seriously weird refereeing involved in the outcome.

First, with 4:44 remaining and Cleveland up by 10, Mason Plumlee and Dean Wade (not the D. Wade) contend for a rebound under the Charlotte basket. Wade handles the ball while his foot is clearly out of bounds, but no whistle. Plumlee grabs the ball and passes it to Rozier in the corner next to the Cleveland bench. The whistle clearly sounds, and obviously and indisputably AFTER the whistle, Rozier takes a dribble and then puts up a 3PA. Darius Garland and Ed Davis touch Rozier while he's shooting, apparently trying to disrupt his concentration on what must have seemed to all concerned a practice shot, but again, after the whistle has blown, so it's not a legal shot and the ball is not live. Rozier misses the shot. The eventual outcome of the play is that Rozier is awarded three points on a shot taken after the whistle that he missed, a technical is called on the Cleveland bench for touching a player on the court, and Rozier makes the free throw. Four point play on a missed shot taken while the ball was dead. (Possession after the free throw went to the Cavs, presumably because Rozier "made" the shot.) Never seen that before.

With 12 seconds left, and Charlotte up by 1, Isaac Okoro absolutely manhandles Gethune Hookman on the rebound from a Rozier shot, wrapping an arm around GH, bending him backward, and practically lifting him off the ground. Four feet away from the assault, Brandon Goodwin grabs the loose ball. All this right in front of the ref, who calls nothing. I don't know what he was looking at or how he could he have missed the foul.

Anyway, Cleveland goes down court, gets up a shot, and with 1.1 second left in the game--again Cleveland down by 1--Kevin Love rebounds the ball and is fouled by Rozier while Love is in the middle of an upward motion. Cleveland was not in the bonus, so if it's a non-shooting foul, there would be no free throws. The Charlotte announcers made a big deal of this, but in that situation, I don't see how it's not a shooting foul, Love is moving upward and there is no time for Love to do anything but shoot. The refs call it a shooting foul, Love hits both free throws, Cleveland wins. This looks like a good call to me--putting aside the fact that the Hornets should've had the ball on the uncalled GH foul--but that didn't stop the Charlotte announcers from crying that the game had been "stolen" from the Hornets.

I guess since it's not in the last 2 minutes, the Rozier awarded 3P will not be mentioned, but I would sure like to know how you can award a team points on a missed shot taken while the ball is dead. Shouldn't it have been a free throw and possession to the Hornets?

   2361. PJ Martinez Posted: February 05, 2022 at 01:13 PM (#6063930)
The case against a Harden-Embiid pairing.

I tend to believe that superstars can figure it out, but that article makes some valid points, I think. Also, holy ####:
Assuming Harden goes with the most lucrative possibility, he would opt into next season at $47.4 million and sign a four-year extension that would have him earning $62.5 million in the final year.

Harden will be 37 years old that season
   2362. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: February 05, 2022 at 02:21 PM (#6063933)
Mike Schmitz @Mike_Schmitz ·3h

Ayo Dosunmu is yet another example of how we all (myself included) often overthink the draft. All the indicators were there to suggest he would be an impactful NBA player. College star who averaged 20-6-5, shot 39% from 3, 6-10 wingspan, basketball junkie.



Last night's highlights (going backwards in the game for some reason), when he put up 15pts/14ast. The last one, when they called an iso for him and he dunked on the Pacers GLeague team, was something else.

Since he's started at PG for Lonzo: 12.8/4.3/7.3 in 37.8mpg with 1.3stl and 1.9TOs and shooting 55/44.2/82.4 and the only Bulls backcourt guy who is playing defense. If you're not sick of my talking about him already, you will be soon enough. Getting way, way ahead of myself here, but wonder if he's going to turn Lonzo into trade bait sometime in the next year or so; he's shown the ability to be a pure PG this stretch.
   2363. epoc Posted: February 05, 2022 at 03:48 PM (#6063946)
The case against a Harden-Embiid pairing.


I don't buy that case at all. Harden's age and next contract are valid concerns, but the on-court stuff is totally wrong. Embiid's greatness in the post and Harden's gravity on the perimeter are an ideal combination, not a problem. And a Harden/Embiid pnr would be deadly. If Embiid prefers to pop rather than roll, again, that is a good thing. When the screener can either roll or pop, that creates a level of variation to the offensive scheme that Harden's pnr attack never had in Houston (and was arguably the main reason those Houston teams struggled in the playoffs). The Sixers would certainly have to scheme around Harden's defensive shortcomings, but having a rim protector like Embiid is probably the number one key to doing so effectively. The answer probably involves playing more zone or faux-zone schemes (a tactic that I think Embiid has belittled in past, to be fair, for whatever that's worth).

As for the age/contract stuff, I think if you're the Sixers you have to look at it like: does Harden put us in position to win a chip during Embiid's peak? If so, you gladly lock yourself into paying Harden $60M for his age 37 season, even if it sucks when that bill comes due.
   2364. asinwreck Posted: February 05, 2022 at 04:10 PM (#6063947)
The wild thing about Dosunmu is he's giving off serious Swiss-army knife vibes. He'd been serving as a good 3 and D type before Ball and Caruso went out. Then they needed a PG, so now the assists are up and he's posting double-doubles. As his minutes have increased, he's demonstrated that he's a quick study with great court vision. My unrestrained exuberance comp is to another Midwestern second-rounder: Draymond Green. Green quickly demonstrated the intelligence and well-rounded game that made him a steal. Obviously, Dosunmu is a long ways away from peak-level Draymond, but his growth this season makes thinking about his future a lot of fun.
   2365. KronicFatigue Posted: February 05, 2022 at 04:32 PM (#6063948)
I haven't been as hyped as I am for this Harden-->Sixers thing since the Ewing/Oakley/Starks Knicks. I hate Harden (for his style of play), but hate Irving way more, and have actually injured myself rolling my eyes regarding Durant. I was fine with Durant joining the Warriors...who wouldn't want to get away from Westbrook? And yeah, winning a single championship with the Warriors would come with an *, but creating and maintaining a dynasty would have been impressive.

Him wanting to be his "own man" in Brooklyn, only to create a new super team with Irving and Harden was weaksauce. To watch it all blow up so spectacularly would be amazing. And I've always had a begrudging respect for "the process", and lamented how unlucky they got with their draft picks (maybe unlucky is the wrong term).

Simmons is the worst type of athlete, and I wish nothing but the worst for him. Embiid seems like the exact opposite, and I'd love for him to get a true chance at a ring while in his prime.

And while I don't like Morey, he was absolutely right to stay firm, and if it pays off, he's earned the right to do laps around the court in his underwear taunting "I told you so". Role players wouldn't have moved the needle. The only way to move the needle was for Simmons to play again (ha!), or to trade him for a legit talent.

And then there's Stiggles. I will f5 the hell out of this page watching stiggles bask in the glory.
   2366. asinwreck Posted: February 05, 2022 at 09:14 PM (#6063956)
On the ABC telecast, Mike Breen expressed shock at how well the Knicks have played tonight. This would not be nearly as funny if Breen wasn't the Knicks' play-by-play voice.
   2367. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: February 05, 2022 at 10:31 PM (#6063961)
Simmons is the worst type of athlete, and I wish nothing but the worst for him. Embiid seems like the exact opposite, and I'd love for him to get a true chance at a ring while in his prime.

And while I don't like Morey, he was absolutely right to stay firm, and if it pays off, he's earned the right to do laps around the court in his underwear taunting "I told you so". Role players wouldn't have moved the needle. The only way to move the needle was for Simmons to play again (ha!), or to trade him for a legit talent.


How amazing would it be for the Sixers to win a title even without trading Ben Simmons and with him sitting out the whole season? I am rooting for LBJ and the Lakers but that would be outstanding.
   2368. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: February 05, 2022 at 11:11 PM (#6063965)
After what is looking like the Lakers best half of the season, the Lakers have blown a 9-point lead late with 2.5 minutes left in the game and now the Lakers are going to overtime.

The Lakers went 1-5 late in the game with respect to free throws. Wow, this team is just the worse. This would be a bad loss considering how well the second half was.
   2369. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: February 05, 2022 at 11:38 PM (#6063966)
The Lakers win the game and really played well in the second half after a horrible first half. LBJ looked good and AD was outstanding defensively and active offensively. He was a force defensively and makes the Lakers defense much better. Malik Monk was excellent and is easily the most gifted offensive player have had to pair with LBJ and AD.

Westbrook actually got benched for the OT and he looks like a guy whose confidence is completely shot. He looks afraid to shoot. He missed two late free throws that would have iced the game in regulation.

It does look like Vogel is not going to be afraid to bench him down the stretch. Ariza hit a big shot in OT but he looks so cooked. THT continues to be awful. They need Nunn and THT to be better if they are going to reduce Russell's impact.

   2370. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: February 05, 2022 at 11:58 PM (#6063967)
Morey strikes me as the guy at the bar who watches some smooth operator (played by Sam Presti) going around and picking up all the chicks (picks), and then he tries the same moves but comes off like a big ####### and they just don't work, and he's like "I don't get it, why isn't this working?".
   2371. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: February 06, 2022 at 01:03 AM (#6063968)
Frank Vogel on benching Russell Westbrook in OT: "Hopefully the response is that player plays better."
   2372. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: February 06, 2022 at 02:02 PM (#6063985)
This is in the category of “stuff nobody cares about”, but there’s not a single source of what I consider reliable stats for g league numbers this year. Sports reference still has some kind of join issues or something going on, the g league site apparently doesn’t care about the first chunk of the season (that tourney thing), and realgm has always had some tiny discrepancies with their data (seriously though, it’s an impressive site).
   2373. KronicFatigue Posted: February 06, 2022 at 03:29 PM (#6063989)
He looks afraid to shoot.


He went 1/10 while the rest of the starters went a combined 41/70.

He missed this shot, which is becoming a pattern. (links thanks to /r/nba)

Crowd booed him at least twice. First, after that miss, and second, BEFORE he took a corner 3. He still took it, and missed badly.

   2374. smileyy Posted: February 06, 2022 at 04:08 PM (#6063996)
Dear Russ, there's a reason that that's a wide open shot for you.

Edit: just watched the composite video. Those aren't even open shots.
   2375. asinwreck Posted: February 06, 2022 at 04:31 PM (#6064001)
The Cavs are attempting to win the James Harden trade now that they employ Allen and LeVert.
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
Cleveland is acquiring Caris LeVert in a trade, sources tell ESPN.
Adrian Wojnarowski@wojespn
The Cavs are sending a package to the Pacers that includes Ricky Rubio’s expiring contract and a lottery-protected 2022 and first-round pick and two second round picks, sources tell ESPN.
   2376. tshipman Posted: February 06, 2022 at 04:44 PM (#6064011)
So it's a first and two seconds? Good piece of business for Indiana. LeVert still can't shoot, and he's 27. LeVert makes 19 million next year, and I don't think he passes the Nene test.
   2377. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: February 06, 2022 at 04:47 PM (#6064013)
Embiid is averaging about 60/25 per36 against Vuc thisnyear. Vuc is averaging about 8/2 against embiid.
   2378. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: February 06, 2022 at 04:49 PM (#6064015)
I think that's a decent trade for the Cavs. He's a good fit and fills an obvious need, the pick is lottery protected and the Cavs can make a real run this year.

I think bulls are gonna be lucky if they don't end up in the playin.
   2379. smileyy Posted: February 06, 2022 at 04:53 PM (#6064016)
Lotta defense being played in that DEN/BKN game.
   2380. asinwreck Posted: February 06, 2022 at 05:15 PM (#6064017)
There is defense in the third quarter - on Denver's part. Brooklyn shot out the lights in the first half but have 10 points in the first 11 minutes of the third quarter.
   2381. smileyy Posted: February 06, 2022 at 05:25 PM (#6064018)
NGL, was a little disappointed to not see a 156-154 game.
   2382. asinwreck Posted: February 06, 2022 at 05:27 PM (#6064019)
If Malone didn't rest Jokić once the Nuggets built an extended lead, Denver would have had a good shot at 150 today. In 27 minutes, he's one assist shy of a triple double.
   2383. asinwreck Posted: February 06, 2022 at 05:45 PM (#6064021)
Jokić got a brief return to record one more assist. 27 points, 12 rebounds, 10 assists, 30 minutes played.
   2384. asinwreck Posted: February 06, 2022 at 05:49 PM (#6064022)
Brooklyn's point distribution looks like altitude sickness: 40 35 16 13.
   2385. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: February 06, 2022 at 06:36 PM (#6064027)
Jokić got a brief return to record one more assist. 27 points, 12 rebounds, 10 assists, 30 minutes played.
ricky davis, eat your heart out.
   2386. tshipman Posted: February 06, 2022 at 07:28 PM (#6064030)
Who gets to .500 first? The Lakers with LeBron or the Nets without Durant?
   2387. Harlond Posted: February 06, 2022 at 07:43 PM (#6064033)
Russ is missing those shots so badly I wonder if he doesn't have some sort of vision problem. Or something.
   2388. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: February 06, 2022 at 08:14 PM (#6064034)
Russ is missing those shots so badly I wonder if he doesn't have some sort of vision problem. Or something.

Russ had a pretty decent stretch of shooting just before slumping again for 3 games. In that nine game stretch, he averaged 20/6/5 on 48/41/79 shooting. Russ is Russ and has always been Russ. He isn't playing all that differently from last year. It does surprise me that he sucks at free throws.

The Lakers still have not had a good stretch of games with AD, LBJ, and RWB together in the lineup all together. Maybe he learn to play so that he can be useful with LBJ handling the ball and still handle the ball occasionally. Or maybe he plays the same way and he becomes more of 20-25 minute player for them.

What I feel faily confident about is Malik Monk can be their third best offensive players. He's a really good offensive player.

Russ being a lightning rod has really diverted attention from THT who has had a horrible year.
   2389. smileyy Posted: February 06, 2022 at 11:59 PM (#6064052)
Remarkably, amazingly, this is not the worst 2P%, 3P% or eFG% that Russ has put up in his career. Those triple doubles really distract from how shitty of a shooter he is. If it likely weren't against the CBA, I'd fine him for every one of those jumpers.
   2390. . . . . . . Posted: February 07, 2022 at 08:48 AM (#6064057)
Thibs refusing to play Cam Reddish is peak Thibs
   2391. spivey Posted: February 07, 2022 at 09:41 AM (#6064061)
I'm not sure Monk is that good. He's having a good year, but this is his first year with an above average TS+. He generates a reasonable amount of his own shots, but he doesn't create for others much, doesn't offensive rebound. He's been a good shooter the last 2 years but the other years count too, and his career 3pt% is .354.

He strikes me as an offense first role player who has value, but that's about as far as I'd go.

I don't think there's a real contender where he'd be their 3rd best player on offense.
   2392. I am going to be Frank Posted: February 07, 2022 at 09:52 AM (#6064062)
Man, there is so much smoke around Simmons/Harden trade. I think Simmons can work in Brooklyn, because even though it's in NY, no one cares about the team so it's a big market with relatively low scrutiny. Kyrie and Durant will suck up all the shots. At this point doesn't KD go tell Kyrie to get the damn vaccine?

How much PnR does Philly run with Embiid? The times I've watched Philly it's Embiid in the high or low post or out on the perimeter, but I'm far from a regular viewer.
   2393. PJ Martinez Posted: February 07, 2022 at 10:03 AM (#6064064)
I am more convinced than ever that it would be a big mistake for Philly not to get something for Simmons this year. The East seems wide open, and the team's out west are by no means invincible. Who knows how long Embiid's body will hold up. I also don't really buy that you need a prime-Harden-level talent to move the needle, not when Embiid is playing this well. Morey should get something done, IMO, Harden or not.
   2394. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: February 07, 2022 at 10:39 AM (#6064068)
I am more convinced than ever that it would be a big mistake for Philly not to get something for Simmons this year.


Nonsense. The important thing is to make sure you win the trade. Nothing else matters. /jk
   2395. spivey Posted: February 07, 2022 at 10:45 AM (#6064070)
I think the Simmons+stuff/Harden trade could be the rare one that helps both teams.

I do wonder what Philly's defense would look like in the playoffs if you just try to spam pick and rolls with Harden and Embiid's guys. Of course, they'll try to hide Harden, but there are ways to bring him into the action.
   2396. jmurph Posted: February 07, 2022 at 11:02 AM (#6064073)
I'm struggling to imagine the Nets sending Harden in-season to one of their likely 3 top rivals for the conference, which then also requires them retooling their team to incorporate a guy who hasn't played in months, unless it's for a massive return. "They could lose him this summer for nothing" is not a reason to do that.
   2397. jmurph Posted: February 07, 2022 at 11:12 AM (#6064074)
(They also don't really face much of a risk of losing him for nothing this summer, especially to Philadelphia who would need a ton of help to clear the cap space.)
   2398. a 57i66135 with a grenade still has a grenade Posted: February 07, 2022 at 11:33 AM (#6064078)
How much PnR does Philly run with Embiid? The times I've watched Philly it's Embiid in the high or low post or out on the perimeter, but I'm far from a regular viewer.
i'm sure this is entirely coincidental and not at all influenced by the harden rumors, but embiid was asked about it after yesterday's decisive victory over chicago:

Rich Hoffman @rich_hofmann
Joel Embiid on DeMar DeRozan: "I always thought he was underrated... Footwork kind of reminds me of Kobe." And then I asked him about a nerdy topic, when he decides to pop vs. roll on pick-and-rolls. Thought he gave a pretty good answer.
pic.twitter.com/tR6YTqhRBg



fwiw, i don't think embiid is comfortable rolling to the rim. i don't think it's natural for him to turn away from the ball and so he winds up side shuffling towards than paint instead of cutting hard to the rim.

however, given embiid's proclivity for rapid improvement, maybe he just needs to watch a video of a YMCA game from grenwich connecticut over a long weekend to show up on next monday rolling to the rim like tyson chandler.
   2399. PJ Martinez Posted: February 07, 2022 at 11:34 AM (#6064079)
Re: 2396: Yeah, it really only makes sense if he demands a trade, or Durant demands that he be traded, or if they're convinced he's quit on the team. None of those seem impossible, though.
   2400. jmurph Posted: February 07, 2022 at 11:46 AM (#6064080)
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