On/Off

On/Off only in games player has played:

3 point percentages on/off offense/defense/net


This in theory measures 3 point luck to some degree, the defense number being more relevant given the offense number is probably more influenced by the player in question taking some of those 3s on offense. Positive numbers on offense are luckier, negative numbers on defense are luckier.

Positive numbers on offense are luckier, negative numbers on defense are luckier.

I sometimes wonder if Steph is a slight exception to that. People get suckered into taking some awful 3s when he gets hot.

Probably not the case, and it would take a lot of evidence to show it, but I do wonder about that sometimes when watching them play.

As an addendum to my post, it is not true. Since 2016, in games where Curry plays, the team has a better 3p% against with him off the court.

Durant with a 6 point trip. Jumpshot and-1 flagrant 1 followed by a jumpshot and-1.

Durant is scoring at will against the Hawks, but the Nets aren't stopping anyone and have turned the ball over a lot.

Trae Young has taken a bunch of lousy shots this game.

Nobody watching the Final 4? Thought maybe we’d have the Wiggle Report from Stiggles at least….

Durant is scoring at will against the Hawks, but the Nets aren't stopping anyone and have turned the ball over a lot.

This is the kind of game that makes you think worse of both teams.

Four-time NBA champion Manu Ginobili, five-time NBA All-Star Tim Hardaway, three-time WNBA champion and two-time gold medalist Swin Cash, and five-time WNBA All-Star and four-time WNBA champion Lindsay Whalen highlighted the 13-member Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame Class of 2022 that was announced Saturday.

Other honorees included two-time NCAA Coach of the Year Bob Huggins, longtime NBA coach George Karl, longtime NBA referee Hugh Evans and former NCAA champion and WNBA Coach of the Year Marianne Stanley.


Along with those eight, six-time NBA All-Star Lou Hudson was elected by the Veterans Committee, six-time NBA All-Star and former coach Larry Costello and former coach Del Harris were elected by the Contributor Committee, former AIAW three-time All-American Theresa Shank-Grentz was selected by the Women's Veterans Committee, and Radivoj Korac, who once scored 99 points in a EuroLeague game, was chosen by the International Committee.

I am kind of having a hard time with Del Harris in the BBHOF.

Also, for the Grizzlies Stans:

A decade later, Pera is richer than Walton ever was. His company has soared and so has his net worth, to $15 billion and rising. The average NBA fan might know the richest owners in the league are the LA Clippers' Steve Ballmer, worth around $100 billion depending on how Microsoft's stock does on any given day, and the Cleveland Cavaliers' Dan Gilbert, worth more than $20 billion. But Pera, who ranks third among league owners, is a relative ghost, rarely seen and never heard, unlike some of his courtside-sitting, cheerleading peers.

Because of Pera's deepening pockets -- he's in line to take in $135 million this year on his Ubiquiti stock dividends alone -- the Grizzlies are in position to keep their current roster of players and potentially add more.

I am kind of having a hard time with Del Harris in the BBHOF.

Yeah, that’s weird.

3811: No inside news but seems like a combo of gold watch for being in game for decades and helped with international efforts like China. Apparently a very well liked guy which probably helped

Del Harris belongs in the hall of fame for hair. He's had that white mane for like 30 years. Just great hair.

White, G. Williams and Pritchard are 11-12 on 3's off the bench, up 43 on the Wizards.

Concur that is is awfully peculiar the Grizzlies seem to play better when Morant isn't available. Part of it is that, while he's extremely talented offensively, he seems to dominate the ball a little too much, and his slightness of build hurts them defensively.

Dallas has not handled the trap well at all. Something to file away for the post-season.

I am kind of having a hard time with Del Harris in the BBHOF.

Get it but I also like the Contributor's category. Some guys play a huge role in the sport but aren't HOF as players as coaches. It would be bizarre if he were honored as a coach. I don't honestly know how they evaluate it and whether he's a good fit, but if he's like a Lefty O'Doul presence in the spread of basketball, that's cool.

I actually think Hardaway is hard to picture as an HOFer though I get he's a marginal in by most measures. I guess maybe there's a minute where he and Price were the best point guards in a league that was looking to non-PGs, and that then if Stockton and Payton slipped up later on, he could sneak in to the conversation. Given the fact that the Warriors had three HOFers in their primes, you'd think they'd have had a .500 record with them those two years.

Dallas has not handled the trap well at all. Something to file away for the post-season.

I could believe any outcome for Dallas from first round loss to NBA Finals.

Edit: lots of discussion around the rest of the NBA world about the Jazz collapsing last night. Crazy stat that Donovan Mitchell only averages 2 passes per game to Gobert. Not assists, just passes.

Bro Rudy Gobert just did the most frustrated Frenchman thing I've ever seen and Steph immediately got up to clown him for it lmao

https://twitter.com/kai_arman/status/1510442086830850055

This is legit hilarious. They blew a 21-point 3rd quarter lead against a Steph-less Warriors.

Rudy Gobert gets Klay on a mismatch, seals him in the restricted area, and gets completely ignored

https://twitter.com/ProCityHoops/status/1510462174250024960

I guess it's still a question as to whether Jazz players (including Donovan) don't want to pass to Rudy because they're so sick of him, have no confidence in him (though he's gotten so much better at finishing or drwawing fouls on these exact plays), or I guess a combo of both. But you can tell the team has zero trust in each other and the game plan just falls apart at slightest pressure. There are probably teams that have come back from vibes like this, but I don't see it happening here. Playoff run this year could change everything but there's zero reason to think they're capable of it.

I'm surprised that according to Lowe and his guest there are many teams interested in Rudy so maybe Jazz actually can get assets for him on that deal. I think you also have to go to Donovan and get him to be honest if he has any plans of sticking in Utah, and if not trade him at peak value and go for a full rebuild.

Crazy stat that Donovan Mitchell only averages 2 passes per game to Gobert. Not assists, just passes.

The play from late in last night's game (~1:30 to go), when the Jazz were down 3 and Gobert got Klay sealed down low on a switch and Mitchell just waved him off, is really something.

Edit: Coke to Cervo.

On paper I feel like a Mitchell/Gobert team should be able to be a fringe contender with better success than they've had. But those guys clearly don't like each other. It's a sad situation, really, and it's hard for me to see them having a successful playoffs (I'd consider successful one series win and playing a contender really tough in a loss in the second round, at this point).

I'm surprised that according to Lowe and his guest there are many teams interested in Rudy so maybe Jazz actually can get assets for him on that deal. I think you also have to go to Donovan and get him to be honest if he has any plans of sticking in Utah, and if not trade him at peak value and go for a full rebuild.


Though Utah has probably underperformed, there's a number of teams that would kill for this level of under performance. Dallas was a good shout from McMahon. Aren't a ton of ways for them to get a second star. Gobert may be one where they don't have to completely break the bank to do it. I've found him way better as a guest on The Lowe Post than his old Around the Horn days where he just seemed like another forgettable clown in a circus.

Though Utah has probably underperformed, there's a number of teams that would kill for this level of under performance. Dallas was a good shout from McMahon. Aren't a ton of ways for them to get a second star. Gobert may be one where they don't have to completely break the bank to do it. I've found him way better as a guest on The Lowe Post than his old Around the Horn days where he just seemed like another forgettable clown in a circus.

congratulations jazz fans! you're the envy of every orlando, charlotte and new orleans fan that you'll never meet.

The Lakers are done this year but what do they look like next year? Obviously, I don't think they can be a title contender but with a relatively healthy LBJ and AD they should be a playoff team. But is that too optimistic? This team has absolutely fallen aparts since they were around .500 halfway through the season. Westbrook wasn't good for this team but they were never going to do much without LBJ and AD healthy most of the time.

It doesn't help they got literally nothing from Kendrick Nunn and essentially nothing from THT, younger guys that were supposed to be productive regulars.

What an awful season that does not bode well for the future either.

The Lakers are done this year but what do they look like next year?

trade machine: who says no?

We'll see what they do in the off-season, but are these Lakers able to get to be better than the Pels + Zion? Than the Wovles? Than whatever weird zombie thing is happening in Portland? I don't know.

A lot of it depends how far out the Lakers are willing to go to get off Westbrook.

I was listening to an Athletic pod where they had a Lakers blogger on that was pretty good and he brought up a trade I think is at least interesting.

Westbrook + 2027 FRP + 2029 FRP for Brogdon and Buddy Hield. I think with a couple decent moves on the edges that team would be a contender if LeBron and AD are healthy in the postseason. Really just kind of depends on what the #### Indiana is doing, which has been hard to figure out. I know they've not wanted to tank, but I think trying to rebuild around Halliburton, Duarte, Myles Turner, and assets is better than whatever the #### they're doing now. Have like 1 or 2 deep tank seasons, then try to get back to where they traditionally sit.

I realize this is throwing good money after bad a bit, but I think the Lakers are incentivized to deal future FRPs since their draft cupboard the next several years is so bare. Try really hard the next 2-3 years to win another championship, then maybe if AD isn't cooked another star comes and takes LeBron's place?

Putting aside the question of whether that trade is a good trade for Indiana (it isn't), their GM is GMing for his life this offseason. I can't see Pritchard trading decent players next year for draft picks in 5 and 7 years from now.

Edit: If Pritchard gets fired this offseason, maybe they will go into tank mode. Playing Westbrook big minutes would certainly aid that cause.

Westbrook's line today: 27/10/7, on 11-15 shooting, +1 in a game the Lakers lost by 11. He has actually put together a string of good games on O (with the notable exception of the NO game) since Towns and Beverley made fun of him in the game at Minnesota (not saying it is related, necessarily). So, the guy is not actually washed, IMO. The Lakers shot 53% from the floor today, and Davis and Westbrook combined for 55 points on 40 shots. They got beat anyway, since Denver shot 57% with Barton and Gordon going 17/26 from the field and made 12 3s to the Lakers's 6.

The Lakers suck for three reasons:
1. James and Davis can't stay on the floor and are not as dominant as they were in '20 when they do play. The team has only gone 11-11 when they have both been out there.
2. The team won the 2020 bubble title on James/Davis, defense, and size. That team was 11th in ORTG and 21st in 3P%. Pelinka and whoever else you want to hold responsible pivoted violently from that model to an old, undersized team that is 20th in 3P% with literally the exact same % (.349) but is 21st in DRTG (24th in ORTG).
3. Westbrook is not done, but he has lost a step, cannot play effectively with James, and is a liability on D. Keeping THT, a 21-year-old who, like Westbrook, needs the ball in his hands to do anything and cannot shoot from distance, instead of Caruso, a very strong defender and low-usage guy who can play off-ball and is competent from 3, has exacerbated all of these issues, as everybody knows. Also, FWIW (nothing, really) I blame James for this more than I do Westbrook. Nobody forced James to support/push the deal, and THT is a Klutch client.

As far as what to do about it: there is no evidence that I am aware of that anybody other than the Lakers blogosphere guys who came up with it (there is a four-team version of it as well, which puts Gordon Hayward in Indiana, Westbrook in OKC, and Myles Turner in Charlotte) wants to do that type of trade. Brogdon is pushing 30, has played 36 games this year, is owed 23.3M in 24-25 and has had a bad year from 3. Hield is also pushing 30 and ofc will not help with the D, and they make about 47M a year between them (Westbrook's exact salary number for next year, which is one reason it got started).

So, while I get the reasoning, and ofc a lot of Lakers fans are constantly talking about getting rid of Westbrook (and there are those who want to BLOW IT UP! and trade James and Davis too, which definitely will not happen under Jeanie Buss IMO) I am not sure that this is the way to go for the Lakers, even if the other teams were up for it.

@3830/rr: thanks for the detailed breakdown of the Lakers situation. Excellent.

What do you think they can/should/will do, going forward?

Lakers have basically two paths in the offseason:

1. Trade Westbrook
2. Take the medicine

The problem with 1 is that it's hard to find what you need, and Westbrook isn't really the biggest issue. The team has a +0.7 net rating with AD/LeBron on and Westbrook off. That is only in 183 minutes, which is a tiny, tiny, tiny sample and gets to sort of the root cause. Amusingly, in 267 minutes without all three players, they are +0.01.

Let's say that Indiana agrees to the deal spivey outlines in 3828, or the one that robinred outlined in 3830. Are they a contender? I don't think so. They're another year older, another year more brittle, with terrible depth, plus whoever the wildcard new coach is.

That leads me to 2: you either trade AD, or just ride it out with Westbrook and get his cap hit off the books. This is not appealing for many reasons, but frankly, the Westbrook trade, while it did have championship upside, has failed and doubling down on a bad decision is sort of pointless. Maybe you can fool yourself into believing a new coach can fix this mess. D'Antoni is probably available to help with finding a better role for Westbrook.

I think trading more future assets to dump Westbrook is not a great decision. 9/10 times in the NBA, you can put off paying the piper, but I think this is the 1/10 time.

What would an Anthony Davis trade look like in 2022? His salary is 37.9m next year, going up to 40.6m in 23/24 and 43.2m in 24/25. He's missed major portions of the last two seasons, and even a best case scenario should assume he'll miss at least 15 games per season based on his history.

Who'd be most likely to offer the Lakers what would make sense to move on from Davis? (Leaving aside the question of whether LeBron would approve of such a deal.)

@3830/rr: thanks for the detailed breakdown of the Lakers situation. Excellent.

What do you think they can/should/will do, going forward?

Thank you for the compliment on the post. This may be kind of long, so people who don't have me on ignore/don't care what I think/don't like Kremlinology should skip it.

There is a third option of sorts, which would be to use the Stretch on Westbrook's deal, and I have heard it mentioned a couple of times. That would be sort of funny, since the Lakers still have Luol Deng's deal on the books (it comes off this summer). With Westbrook's deal, it would be about a 15M yearly hit for three years. So that + what shipman said covers "can."

As to "will", I have read that James is eligible for a supermax extension in August, which, if he got it, would pay him 50.1M in his age-40 season. Sounds crazy ofc on an analytical level, but I could see Jeanie doing it. Her old man's business model included two inflexible principles:

1. Get superstars, max them out money-wise, and keep them. The exception was Shaq, ofc, but they still had Kobe, seven years younger, and Shaq dissed Old Man Buss in public, supposedly. Had either Kobe or Shaq been more willing to keep it going, I think that Shaq would have retired as a Laker, and even so, they still gave him a pretty cool statue outside The Crypt.
2. Run the team with people you know and trust who have Lakers connections.

I am not saying that these things are either good or bad--just that I think it is clear that Jeanie oversees the org based on both. So, I think that Jeanie's instinct will be to try to get James signed beyond 2023, when his current deal ends.

As to "should" this gets into stuff that we can't see--where James' head is, where Westbrook's head is, whether Vogel has totally lost the team etc. But I am with shipman, in that I am not really interested in giving up more FRPs to get Westbrook off the roster. Supposedly James and Rich Paul were pressuring Pelinka to trade Westbrook and the 2027 FRP for John Wall, who is a Klutch guy, and Pelinka said no. If that happened, then I agree with Pelinka.

If James were 31 instead of 37, and were under contract for two more years instead of one, I would be more interested in something like the Hield/Brogdon deal. As it is, I am not sure it is a good idea. Now, that doesn't mean that I will freak out and pound the table if they do it, but at this point, based on what I know, I would just as soon that they keep Westbrook next year, let his deal expire, and in the meantime see what Pelinka can do to improve the defense on the cheap, and, obviously, hope that James and Davis can get out there for 70 games and play like Top-10 guys. Not a great set of things to bet on, but I don't really think that they can get a good enough return for Westbrook going the other way.

Westbrook's MVP year was the year in OKC when Durant was gone and before George showed up. Westbrook had a 41.7 USG that year, which, to put it in perspective, is three full percentage points higher than Kobe Bryant's career high. Westbrook, as some have said, is a "floor-raiser." If you can hand him the keys on a team that is not tanking, where he is the best guy and/or paired with a finisher, then he can still put up numbers for you--like, for example, today. Putting him at age 33 on an old team with a ball-dominant GOAT candidate who is going for Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's scoring record, surrounded by a bunch of other guys who don't defend well, basically destroys his value, as we have seen.

As to Vogel, if they keep him, which seems unlikely, then they need to hire an offensive coordinator type to see if they can get more out of James and Westbrook. If they can Vogel and hire an O-oriented guy, then they need to hire a defensive coordinator type to try to get the team closer to the middle of the pack on D. Either way, Pelinka needs to focus on adding 2-3 cheap guys with youngish legs who have a little ability/are willing to bust hump on D. Obviously, with the cap situation, that will not be easy, but I do not see a better path right now.

Who'd be most likely to offer the Lakers what would make sense to move on from Davis?

People have, as you would expect, speculated about Chicago. Chicago needs a top-tier star, and the Lakers could perhaps get Ball back, which would give Lakers fans some feels. Plus ofc Davis is from Chicago.

What isn't talked about much when it comes to the Laker defense is how little Lebron is contributing to it. He used to be a superior defender but those days are gone. He doesn't play very much help defense anymore, and doesn't do those hustle plays he used to do. He's also gotten fairly easy to beat off the dribble. Given he's going to be 38 next year, this problem is likely to be worse next year, not better. If I were a Laker fan, I'd be on the "Blow it up" bus.

That trade Stiggles posted, no way would Miami ever do that. That would constitute a blow up on their part, and being in first place, there is no reason for them to do that.

Re: Westbrook being a floor raiser

This is as good of a comment as any to mention this, though I think your takes on Westbrook are mostly mild and on the money, rr.

Westbrook went to a finals and 3 other conference finals as the #2 on a team that was very top heavy, and some years he was closer to a 1a to Durant. He did this putting up good box score stats, great on/off stats, and generally being a team that played the top teams in the league very, very tough. They were a top 3-4 team pretty much his whole prime, but generally in a conference that had like 3 of the top 4 teams and 6 of the top 8 every year.

I think Westbrook is mostly washed. But I also think Westbrook has always been a polarizing player and I think people are using his current struggles as a referendum on his previous play.

Re: 3824

It's more teams than that. I think if Utah were in the East they probably have a little bit more success. As it is, they've not had worse success than Embiid's 76ers in the last 4-5 years. I guess maybe people have expected more from them? Maybe so, they've had been regular seasons, but Embiid's a top ~7 player.

For the salaries to work, a Bulls trade for Davis would probably have to include Nikola Vučević alongside Ball. Would the Lakers really want to do that?

Atlanta could be a more attractive trade partner, and a healthy Davis paired up with Trae Young would be fun to watch...if they see Davis's health as worth the risk.

For the salaries to work, a Bulls trade for Davis would probably have to include Nikola Vučević alongside Ball. Would the Lakers really want to do that?

Probably not, but yes, that is exactly what the spec was. This was just people on-line; it wasn't like Charania or Stein or whoever. I don't think that either James or Davis is going anywhere this off-season. I think that they will try to move Westbrook, though.

If James were 31 instead of 37, and were under contract for two more years instead of one, I would be more interested in something like the Hield/Brogdon deal. As it is, I am not sure it is a good idea. Now, that doesn't mean that I will freak out and pound the table if they do it, but at this point, based on what I know, I would just as soon that they keep Westbrook next year, let his deal expire, and in the meantime see what Pelinka can do to improve the defense on the cheap, and, obviously, hope that James and Davis can get out there for 70 games and play like Top-10 guys. Not a great set of things to bet on, but I don't really think that they can get a good enough return for Westbrook going the other way.

Yeah, this is where I am as well.

Westbrook went to a finals and 3 other conference finals as the #2 on a team that was very top heavy, and some years he was closer to a 1a to Durant. He did this putting up good box score stats, great on/off stats, and generally being a team that played the top teams in the league very, very tough. They were a top 3-4 team pretty much his whole prime, but generally in a conference that had like 3 of the top 4 teams and 6 of the top 8 every year.

I think that Westbrook has changed, and the league has changed.

In 2013, when Westbrook and Durant went to the Finals and Westbrook was really almost 1A, the NBA averaged 20 3pers attempted per game per team. This year teams are averaging 35.

Further, the year after Durant left, Westbrook shifted into this total control mode on offense. Where Westbrook used to be pretty decent on defense, he suddenly blatantly took possessions off. He can't make FTs anymore after the rule change that banned walking back from the circle. He's completely unwilling to screen, even for LeBron where he can get a mismatch and a dunk out of it. I don't remember any of that when he was with Durant in OKC.

I think that both shipman and spivey make reasonable points about Westbrook. I also think that the "floor-raiser" thing perhaps applies better to the current Westbrook in today's league than the past Westbrook in the league of ten years ago. As I have said a couple of times, I think it is worth noting that while Washington is a little better than the Lakers (34-44 with a 32-46 PYTH) they did not improve by trading Westbrook for KCP and Kuzma (and they moved Harrell to Charlotte). Part of that ofc is that Beal has only played about half the schedule, but then, so has Davis.

Westbrook's game yesterday without Lebron looked nothing like many of his earlier games without Lebron. I'm not sure if it was because of Denver's defense, but he wasn't taking pull-up threes, far away bank shots (which used to be his specialty and not anymore), his layups looked more in control. Offensively he played very smart.

On defense, Lebron is usually covering the team's weakest player (like Robert Williams), but what happens way too often is there is a switch, ball swings from one side to the other, and there's an open three with Lebron nowhere near the man. It's difficult to watch given his history and high level of play, but he is old. He still puts in some highlight blocks from behind, but the regular action is just awful.

I think it more accurate to describe Westbrook as a "ceiling lowerer" than a "floor raiser". With the contract he has, and his current age, he has net negative value. The Lakers are going to have to pay someone to take him off their hands. It's a horrible situation for them.

Crazy stat that Donovan Mitchell only averages 2 passes per game to Gobert. Not assists, just passes.

Even crazier is that Donovan Mitchell handles the ball more and has a higher assist rate than he did 2 years ago, but he throws about 1/3 as many passes to Gobert as he did back then.

Dustin Taylor
@DustinT_NBA
Donovan Mitchell passes to Gobert year by year:

2017-18: 3.6
2018-19: 4.4
2019-20: 5.8
2020-21: 3.5
2021-22: 2.3

This is despite Gobert leading the league in FG% and TS%. I just don't think the situation between them is tenable long-term. There's always a lot more we don't know about teammate relationships than what we actually do know, but there's more smoke around the Mitchell-Gobert relationship than just about any teammates in recent memory. I mentioned a couple weeks ago that I think Utah seriously explores trading Gobert this summer, and everything since then seems to have pushed the Jazz further in that direction.

So I've been on vacation for a week+ and come back to catch up on this thread and see this:

Jayson Tatum is about to make his 2nd All NBA appearance and is not yet 25. I suspect that it's not particularly common for players who aren't great to do that? Perhaps there are some examples out there. But you and Moses with the "hmmm I don't know about Tatum, maybe he'll prove me wrong," this is discourse worthy of engagement? How many All NBA teams does a guy need to make to be considered a good player? Maybe we can agree on a groundrule there, and I'll promise to hold off commenting on a very good basketball player who plays on my favorite team until you and Moses decide whether he's good enough.

Keep my name out of your damn mouth, jmurph.

Seriously though, I thought I was clear that my opinions on Tatum and the C's were completely biased, fan-based opinions based on rightfully hating anything and everything to do with the Celtics (and Duke). I most recently was talking about the C's simply in the context that I thought the Bulls might have a 10-15% chance of winning a series (or maybe just a couple of games) against them as opposed to a 0% chance of winning with a guaranteed sweep against MIL (Giannis has won 12 or 13 games in a row against the Bulls) or PHI (Embiid has literally never lost to the Bulls) or MIA (beat the Bulls all 3 times they played this year by a combined 50 points). Oh well.

For the salaries to work, a Bulls trade for Davis would probably have to include Nikola Vučević alongside Ball. Would the Lakers really want to do that?

Damn, the Bulls would do that deal in a heartbeat which means no chance the Lakers would.

Damn, the Bulls would do that deal in a heartbeat which means no chance the Lakers would.

To pull together two strands is there a Gobert/Davis trade that makes any sense? I assume not, but you guys are more creative than I am.

Not a surprise at this point, but Simmons has been ruled out of the play-in games. Is there any chance that the first time he suits up for Brooklyn is in a playoff series against a highly seeded opponent? Seems... unlikely.

To pull together two strands is there a Gobert/Davis trade that makes any sense? I assume not, but you guys are more creative than I am.

I would love that, if only to see tship's reaction.

Had Dallas already not traded Porzingis, I could see how him and Gobert could have been dealt for each other.

Had Dallas already not traded Porzingis, I could see how him and Gobert could have been dealt for each other.

I struggle to see how this makes sense for Utah, as Porzingis would downgrade the defense without really helping much otherwise, though obviously he can shoot 3s better than Gobert.

But I've been wondering, both for reasons of market and which player might want to stay in Utah, if it might make sense for Utah to think about flipping Mitchell instead of Gobert. Mitchell is the better player, but he's also much more likely to get a haul in return and has, to some degree, always seemed like a flight risk. If they're at all worried about him asking out in the next couple of years, it would be interesting to see what they could get in return for him and what kind of defense they could build around Gobert if he isn't asked to cover for deficient perimeter defense constantly.

Ideally they wouldn't need to trade either, as they're a good team that at least on paper has some promise still, but the vibes seem bad enough that they may no longer feel like they have the option of standing pat.

Not a surprise at this point, but Simmons has been ruled out of the play-in games. Is there any chance that the first time he suits up for Brooklyn is in a playoff series against a highly seeded opponent? Seems... unlikely.

Well, Brooklyn has to make it out of the damn play-in first.

I would love that, if only to see tship's reaction.

Look, I did not like the Westbrook trade, but at least I could see how it was a gamble that could theoretically lead to a championship. I didn't like that risk because I thought the upside was unlike to occur and depended on Westbrook becoming a different player, but at least it was possible.

Trading Anthony Davis for Gobert is exactly the wrong kind of move--it maximizes the regular season at the expense of the playoffs. Teams should try to win championships, not make a drive for the 4 seed. This is particularly true for a franchise like the Lakers.

I struggle to see how this makes sense for Utah, as Porzingis would downgrade the defense without really helping much otherwise, though obviously he can shoot 3s better than Gobert.

It's mostly just that both teams would have been sick of the player and the money makes them hard to deal for other guys.

McMahon made it sound on the Lowe Post like it's a 100% guarantee that Mitchell won't spend his whole career in Utah. I'd not heard that stated with so much certainty before. He also said that Gobert seems to like Utah and want to stay there, though his take was if you deal one you may as well deal the other. Unless you can get a lot of NBA ready players back for Mitchell, that probably makes sense given Gobert's age.

Porzingis isn't a better than average NBA player imo. Gobert may have less effectiveness in the playoffs, but he's at worst top 20 regular season player imo.

trade machine: who says no?

something like this would be very interesting.

something like this would be very interesting.

I seriously doubt that trade would result in an additional 18 wins for the Knicks.

and finally, at the risk of harming my well-cultivated reputation for trade machine mastery, this is a more serious stab at it:


trade machine: who says no?

trade machine: who says no?

Isn't it obvious?

The Lakers would never trade Talen Horton-Tucker.

That "projected wins" nonsense has gotta be hurting Hollinger's brand at this stage

Well, that's not ESPN's problem anymore since he's at the Athletic, right? Those projected wins never made much sense in the first place, it's just odd they've left them there and with Hollinger's name (he left what 10 years ago?).

Wait a minute, there are no games today? WTF?

EDIT: I know the NCAA championship game is tonight, but that isn't a good reason.

McMahon made it sound on the Lowe Post like it's a 100% guarantee that Mitchell won't spend his whole career in Utah. I'd not heard that stated with so much certainty before. He also said that Gobert seems to like Utah and want to stay there, though his take was if you deal one you may as well deal the other. Unless you can get a lot of NBA ready players back for Mitchell, that probably makes sense given Gobert's age.

I will say that he never once said he had actual info on Mitchell and basically just cited the example of Harden and that other teams have said he wants out. Obviously the most likely scenario is Mitchell wants to go elsewhere at some point especially if Utah rebuilds/takes a step back, but don't think what McMahon said changes my opinion anymore than some random caller to sports radio saying the same thing.

IMO the Lakers would be very dumb not to offer AD (bad attitude, possible loafer) for Rudy.

IMO the Lakers would be very dumb not to offer AD (bad attitude, possible loafer) for Rudy.

Here's a very realistic photoshop of what AD would look like on the Jazz.

Here's a very realistic photoshop of what AD would look like on the Jazz.

9.5/10

3843 is a pretty good post. Like many foresaw, one issue of many with Westbrook is that he duplicates some of James's faults. I have told a few IRL Lakers fan pals that the old "you need shooters around LeBron" model needs to be replaced with "you need guys under 30 who defend around LeBron."

I have not followed things as closely this year as I normally do; I did not realize that Utah was having these issues I am reading about here.

The on-off numbers for Lopez have been horrendous, but it's almost all 3P variance. Teams are shooting 45% from 3 with him on the floor, 35% with him off. You could argue some of that is because of the drop coverage, but opponent 3PAr is 40.4% with him on and 45.0% with him off. Teams are attempting fewer shots at the rim (23.4 vs 25.6), making fewer shots at the rim (61.0 vs 66.6), and have a much lower rim or 3 frequency (63.8 vs 70.6).

Milwaukee does lose something on offense with him in there, but I'd expect him to be a plus defender in the playoffs.

Anthony Davis getting traded to Utah would be one of the funniest options for NBA drama this offseason. Rudy for Simmons might be #1.

Anthony Davis getting traded to Utah would be one of the funniest options for NBA drama this offseason. Rudy for Simmons might be #1.

trade machine: who says no?

how are the Sixers not involved?!?!

This Knicks-Magic sequence was full of #Shaqtin moments
pic.twitter.com/l4vy9ya8og

— Shaqtin' a Fool (@shaqtin) April 4, 2022

Ky Carlin @Ky_Carlin
Cavs coach J.B. Bickerstaff has been fined $15,000 for criticizing the officials in last night’s loss to the Sixers. He was upset about Joel Embiid and James Harden getting the amount of free throws they got. #Sixers pic.twitter.com/rlpYLemD4i

joel embiid is a natinal treasure.

Billy Lange, 76ers assistant coach: My wife, Alicia, and I have four sons. He takes a car service, he comes over and Alicia cooks for him. He has this backpack with him. He says to my boys, “You guys want to play video games?” Of course, they’re going to say yes. And he takes out his PlayStation.

Alicia Lange: He put it literally on the main TV in my house. He wanted everyone to watch how bad he beat them.

Billy Lange: When I say he pummeled my kids, there was no mercy. I think he won a Madden game, 98-6.

Alicia Lange: At the time, my kids were 7, 9 and 10.

Marc Lange, Billy’s and Alicia’s son: Every time he’d get a turnover he’d say something to me, right to my face. One time he left to go to the bathroom and I got a safety with his controller and he was mad.

Alicia Lange: No mercy.

Billy Lange: Then he goes to play (NBA) 2K, which has all these angles and my kids have always played on the angle like you’re watching the game on television. But Joel plays from the baseline angle. He was beating them by like 200 points. He was unrelenting and he was talking smack. “Can’t guard me. You can’t get a stop.” All of it. Just giggling. Unbelievable. While my wife is cooking for him.

Alicia Lane: He killed them and laughed the entire time. He wiped every kid off the game.

How many playoff teams would be improved by swapping LeBron with their best player? I don't think LeBron can be a #1 on a championship team unless they're deep enough to keep his minutes down. And his salary doesn't really allow that. And I personally wouldn't want AD as my #1. Too much injury risk.

How many playoff teams would be improved by swapping LeBron with their best player? I don't think LeBron can be a #1 on a championship team unless they're deep enough to keep his minutes down. And his salary doesn't really allow that. And I personally wouldn't want AD as my #1. Too much injury risk.

I think a lot of them.

The Suns are an amazing team with LeBron instead of Booker. Significantly better.
Miami is much better with LeBron over Jimmy Butler
Memphis is significantly scarier with LBJ over Ja.
Chicago has a puncher's chance with LeBron instead of DeMar


The only teams that aren't better are the ones with MVP candidates. This is kind of a bad take.

LeBron's did have a brilliant statistical season offensively. I don't think he can carry as heavy a load offensively and still play well defensively. I think he remains superbly athletic (his head was at the rim on a recent slam on Kevin Love) although there is certainly some question now more than ever about his durability.

I really don't know what to think about his season this year. His basic stats are amazing. His team was pretty bad even when he was on his court. He missed a lot of time. He used to be without question in the argument of best player in the league. I am not sure that's true anymore.

He took a pretty bad supporting cast to the NBA finals in 2018. This team isn't going to finish in the top-10 in the conference. He's not as good as 2018 but I really don't know how much worse he is now.

Dunc'd on top 10 NBA podcast came out:

Tier 1
1. Durant
2. Giannis (Danny had Giannis 1, but in the same tier)

Tier 2
3. Kawhi (Danny had Kawhi in a tier by himself)
4. Luka
5. Steph

Tier 3
6. Jokic
7. Embiid
8. LeBron (Danny had LeBron in a lower tier at first, but then moved him up)

Tier 4
9. Tatum
10. Paul George
11. Trae Young (Danny had him 9???)


***

I think Kawhi is quite a bit high for me, as I have way less confidence that Kawhi is the same guy. I would have him around 10. I would put Jokic and probably Embiid in tier 2. I have Giannis as the best player in the NBA.

Edit: oh, and I'd probably have Booker over PG or Trae.

I think deciding who the best player in the league is is harder than it might appear, although I am sure those guys set criteria. But is it one year? Starting a franchise? It usually means "today, this minute in a vacuum" I suppose.

I think Antetokounmpo is the best player in the league right now, and I don't think many people think it is James. Leonard has not played a minute this year, so I think it is weird to rank him as high as that.

It's a prime episode this year, but IIRC usually the way Dunc'd On has done it is you get the next year of the player. So regular season and playoffs both matter. Which I think is a pretty good way to do it. I think Nate Duncan tends to pretty heavily overrate playoffs, and I think Danny usually falls in line with Duncan even if he initially felt differently. That's actually one of the reasons I don't like the podcast more. Whereas, Hollinger I think is more willing to question or disagree with Duncan, I find the Duncan + Hollinger podcast usually to have more interesting, less homogenous takes.

Anyways, Kawhi may still deserve to be ranked here in a "everyone's healthy, Game 7" situation. But the amount of time he misses - and it's not just the regular season. He'll now have missed time in 3 of the last 5 playoffs, and if that's his main calling card, it's a problem. It's not just a couple games here and there either. He missed more than a full series both with the Spurs and Clippers last year, and would have missed over half the playoffs if the teams made the Finals. He's just not reliable, at all. That's on top of the new injury. A lot of guys take a while to get back. Kawhi hasn't moved the same since his last injury, imo. He's still huge, an amazing shooter, and very able to get to his spots - but his defense hasn't been the same after the Zaza imo. I get ranking him high, but this is ranking him over all-NBA first team level players who are much more dependable.

I think I'd have Steph 3rd, in a tier by himself, and then probably Luka + the 6-8 guys together. I think there's a big gap after that. Maybe that's where Kawhi fits for me, then Tatum, then I think the 10th spot is a tossup among several people.

Happy 10th anniversary, SVG and Dwight.

Jamal Collier @JamalCollier ·8m
Lonzo Ball experienced some discomfort when the Bulls tried to ramp up his knee rehab again, Billy Donovan says

He says they’ll meet in the next day or two to determine the next steps

Welp. His season is done.

LaVine isn't playing tonight against MIL, not that the Bulls had a chance to win anyway, but his knee is still acting up. Caruso is now having back spasms and very clearly playing at less than 100%. Unfortunately, it also appears Vuc is still at 100%. At least the first half of this year was fun.

---

So LeBron is out tonight. Maybe his April Fool's joke wasn't a joke. He needs to play 2 more games if he wants to win the scoring title, and in spite of this season I kinda hope he does win it.

RIP: Gene Shue, All-Star and LongTime NBA Coach, Dies at 90

Gene Shue, an All-Star N.B.A. guard of the late 1950s and early ’60s who went on to turn losers into winners in 22 seasons as a pro coach, died Sunday at his home in Marina del Rey, Calif. He was 90.

Shue’s death was announced by the NBA. His partner, Patti Massey, said he had been treated for melanoma.

Welp. His season is done.

Woj is confirming this is likely true. Sorry, Moses. Sucks when injuries wreck a promising season.

Dennis Podman @DennisPodman ·31m

Given news that he will be shut down for the year, worth noting:

In the 5 years of his career, Lonzo Ball will have played 252 of 390 possible regular season games for his teams. That's 65%. He's never played more than 63 games in a season.

Not great.

I guess I never thought of him as injury prone before. It's not a good sign when a relatively minor injury turns into something bigger that then isn't recovered from anywhere near the expected timeline.

Hehe. Grayson Allen and Alex Caruso are covering each other and Allen barely nicked the rim with a 3 from the corner after Caruso went running out at him on a close-out.

In the 5 years of his career, Lonzo Ball will have played 252 of 390 possible regular season games for his teams. That's 65%. He's never played more than 63 games in a season.

Kawhi, Kyrie and Zion read that and look from side to side to see if anyone can see them.

Those guys, along with AD, are inner circle HOF-fragile. Lonzo is just a hot prospect who's got a lot to learn if he wants to be in the same league.

...

I don't think I've despised a Bulls player as much as I despise Vuc right now since, I don't know, Keith Bogans? Chris Duhon? He's more Ben Wallace due to the cost and overall impact as opposed to a couple role players. Boozer was what he was, so I could never truly dislike him for underacheiving (plus this earns him a lifetime free pass).

I hate watching him be so ####### soft and shitty, then get even angrier thinking how much he cost the Bulls to get - and they still owe a first rounder for him. Ugh.

Mo Bamba?!?

I don't think I've despised a Bulls player as much as I despise Vuc right now since, I don't know, Keith Bogans? Chris Duhon? He's more Ben Wallace due to the cost and overall impact as opposed to a couple role players. Boozer was what he was, so I could never truly dislike him for underacheiving (plus this earns him a lifetime free pass).

you did hate bogans, but only because he was playing, and that's not really his fault.

Vuc is now 2 for 15 tonight.

DeMar still rules though.

I gather that the Blazers may have just put on the greatest tanking performance of all time.

Mo Bamba?!?

This is the year where Mo Bamba is surprisingly frisky so that he gets overpaid in a ridiculous deal that he is never healthy for.

[3888] That PDX-OKC box score is a thing of beauty. I can honestly say I've heard of only 6 of the 17 players who played in that game, and of those 6 I'm not sure I would have guessed a single one was on the team they're on.

If you would have told me someone named Kalaitzakis was in the NBA, I would have bet money it was not true.

Lakers officially eliminated.

Big night for Brooklyn. They win, Atlanta and Charlotte lose. With their remaining schedule, they're likely to stay in the top half of the play-in, now.

Toronto up to the 5 seed, game up on Chicago but Chicago has the tie breaker. Chicago has a tough run-in, starting with Boston tonight on a b2b. Then Boston has a b2b vs. Milwaukee, who will have a road b2b after the Boston game. Don't like how many b2b's are scheduled here, but I guess these are probably makeup games? Anyways, everything is so fluid with 2-4, 5-6, and 7-10 that strategic winning and losing is probably not very worthwhile. You'd like to get Chicago or Cleveland, but there's no good way to guarantee that right now.

Portland's run after the all-star break is pretty impressive. They've worked their Net Rating all the way down to 28th after being 25-35 at the break.

Their margin of victory after the ASB is -19.3 (103.9/123.2). That's ####### amazing.

One thing I noticed this year after previous years with shortened seasons. The podcasts like The Lowe Post, Dunc'd On, and The Athletic have felt very repetitive throughout the year. It doesn't feel like there's been 82 games of interesting storylines this year. Not that this will get them to shorten the season.

The podcasts like The Lowe Post, Dunc'd On, and The Athletic have felt very repetitive throughout the year.

One reason I don't pay (like for Dunc'd On) is I get more than enough content now. Like yes, redundant even, so why pay for more.

That PDX-OKC box score is a thing of beauty. I can honestly say I've heard of only 6 of the 17 players who played in that game, and of those 6 I'm not sure I would have guessed a single one was on the team they're on.

As a Michigan fan who watches a fair bit of B1G basketball, I am utterly stunned that Isaiah Roby turned into a useful rotation piece as a pro. The guy could barely get off the bench his first couple of years at Nebraska. He was a great athlete but had no shot, no ball-handling, really barely any offensive skill at all. A lesson about how drafting for long arms and quick twitch athleticism, and crossing fingers that the rest falls into place, isn't a bad strategy in the second round.

Portland's run after the all-star break is pretty impressive. They've worked their Net Rating all the way down to 28th after being 25-35 at the break.

Their margin of victory after the ASB is -19.3 (103.9/123.2). That's ####### amazing.

Over that span, the Blazers have been exactly 1 game worse than the Lakers. They were 3 games behind the Lakers at the ASB and they're 4 games behind them in the current standings. How is that even possible?

One reason I don't pay (like for Dunc'd On) is I get more than enough content now. Like yes, redundant even, so why pay for more.


For the podcasts I pay for extra content, it's usually more as compensation for them creating the free content - which is often the best content anyways for a lot of these folks.

3890 - I was just about to make that same post. Glad I looked back first. OKC had one player with 4 minutes played, and 6 other players (only one I heard of), yet still won. Crazy.

flip