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Friday, May 21, 2021

NBA 2021 Playoffs+ thread

I estimate there are maybe 10-12 Primates left on this site, and they all post in the NBA thread.

Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: May 21, 2021 at 01:07 PM | 3916 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: clutch, narratives, nba, off topic, redemption

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   1201. spivey 2 Posted: June 13, 2021 at 05:20 PM (#6024023)
Milwaukee should win this game anyways, but Brooklyn has really gotten the benefit of the whistle since Kyrie went down.
   1202. spivey 2 Posted: June 13, 2021 at 05:22 PM (#6024024)
I wonder if we could see Hack-a-Giannis in this 4th quarter. This is exceptionally bad free throw shooting.
   1203. spivey 2 Posted: June 13, 2021 at 05:31 PM (#6024025)
Why has Blake Griffin been on the bench for the last quarter? He's like their 3rd best player.
   1204. tshipman Posted: June 13, 2021 at 05:40 PM (#6024026)
This year is so unusual in how every single contender has (seemingly) fatal flaws.
   1205. Shohei Brotani (formerly LA Hombre) Posted: June 13, 2021 at 06:41 PM (#6024029)
I guess Bud's not getting fired yet.
   1206. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: June 13, 2021 at 07:26 PM (#6024036)
personally I think waiting until game 4 to make all the obvious adjustments is not a feather in Bud's cap.
   1207. asinwreck Posted: June 13, 2021 at 08:18 PM (#6024042)
The Suns look primed to sweep the Nuggets tonight. Playing great team defense, and every starter has scored in the first seven minutes of the game.
   1208. spivey 2 Posted: June 13, 2021 at 08:30 PM (#6024043)
I was about to say nobody on Denver is playing with the toughness to match Phoenix, but then Javale McGee came in and he looks ready to commit a flagrant 2 on anybody and everybody.
   1209. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 13, 2021 at 08:38 PM (#6024044)
I was about to say nobody on Denver is playing with the toughness to match Phoenix, but then Javale McGee came in and he looks ready to commit a flagrant 2 on anybody and everybody.
ah yes, javale mcgee: the crown jewel of the process.

February 19, 2015: Traded by the Denver Nuggets with Chukwudiebere Maduabum and a 2016 1st round draft pick (Furkan Korkmaz was later selected) to the Philadelphia 76ers for Cenk Akyol and cash.

   1210. asinwreck Posted: June 13, 2021 at 09:07 PM (#6024048)
The Nuggets started playing better and are still down by eight at the half.
   1211. spivey 2 Posted: June 13, 2021 at 09:38 PM (#6024050)
I mean, I can understand Jokic's frustration. It doesn't feel like the whistle calls have been anywhere near even in today's game. Phoenix has shot more free throws despite clearly going to the basket less, and Phoenix has definitely been physical at the basket.

But that's a really dangerous play, and he's gonna be kicked out.
   1212. asinwreck Posted: June 13, 2021 at 09:43 PM (#6024051)
A disgraceful way for Jokić to end his MVP season.
   1213. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 13, 2021 at 09:45 PM (#6024052)
Wow, that's a shocking turn. I get the call, I think it's the right one, but what a deflating ending to Jokic and Denver's season. (Barring Will Barton going truly nuts or something.)
   1214. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: June 13, 2021 at 09:45 PM (#6024053)
I'm actually surprised they gave him a flagrant 2 since it's him, the playoffs in Denver, and AFAIK he is not a dirty player in the least. But that was a major windup and looked like just a stupid frustration play not a real basketball play, so I think it was right. Credit to him for apologizing to Payne after getting ejected as well. And I don't like Booker but I think he did the right thing getting in Jokic' face immediately after the foul.
   1215. spivey 2 Posted: June 13, 2021 at 10:17 PM (#6024059)
Denver not completely folding when Jokic went out is both impressive and surprising. They definitely had an opportunity when they went down about 15. They should have played like this all series.
   1216. tshipman Posted: June 13, 2021 at 11:23 PM (#6024066)
I get why and all that, but that was a really ####### soft flagrant 2.
   1217. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 14, 2021 at 04:52 AM (#6024076)
Mitch Lawrence @Mitch_Lawrence
NBA ref David Guthrie to DenPost reporter Mike Singer on Jokic ejection: "At review we saw wind up, impact, and follow through, which lead to unnecessary and excessive contact above the shoulders and also into the face. Which by rule met the criteria for a Flagrant Foul Penalty 2
Harrison Wind @HarrisonWind
Michael Malone postgame says the explanation he got on Nikola Jokic ejection was along the lines of, "Windup, malicious intent, some other mumbo jumbo."
Royce Young @royceyoung
Nikola Jokic: "I wanted to change the rhythm of the game, I wanted to give us some energy, maybe change the whistle a little bit, so I wanted to make a hard foul. Did I hit him, did I not hit him? We don't know. So I say sorry if I did."
Harrison Wind @HarrisonWind
Nikola Jokic: "It was a fun season until the last four games."
Harrison Wind @HarrisonWind
Will Barton's walking back through the last three years in detail, all the way back to Game 82 in 2018. He says the last year and a half have been really tough physically and mentally, from injuries to his cousin getting murdered, to COVID.
Royce Young @royceyoung
Monty Williams: "The darkest moment of my life, Chris was right there. One of the highlights of my career, he's right there."
Sam Vecenie @Sam_Vecenie
Honestly can’t wrap my head around Deron Williams having been out of the NBA four years, and his incredible seven-year peak stretch having ended eight years ago. Meanwhile, CP3 is leading a team to the WCF right now. It’s honestly crazy. D-Will’s run was almost a decade ago!
Michael Pina @MichaelVPina
robert sarver thinking about how much money he's gonna have to pay chris paul, mikal bridges, and deandre ayton this summer pic.twitter.com/h77NRnFaHW
   1218. spivey 2 Posted: June 14, 2021 at 09:28 AM (#6024088)
I get why and all that, but that was a really ####### soft flagrant 2.


I saw that take all over Twitter, and I can't help but think it's because people like Jokic, but it doesn't match what I saw. It was reckless, dangerous, unnecessary, and he hit him in the face. I don't think he meant to hit him in the face, but that all the more shows he was out of control. If he swiped down just a little differently, he could have easily broken Payne's nose and concussed him.
   1219. KronicFatigue Posted: June 14, 2021 at 11:08 AM (#6024106)
I saw that take all over Twitter, and I can't help but think it's because people like Jokic, but it doesn't match what I saw. It was reckless, dangerous, unnecessary, and he hit him in the face. I don't think he meant to hit him in the face, but that all the more shows he was out of control. If he swiped down just a little differently, he could have easily broken Payne's nose and concussed him.


But how many of fouls that are ultimately called a flagrant 1 check off those boxes as well? Without any evidence, it feels like Flagrant 2 calls are rare when it's an isolate incident without any past history. In practice, it's a "Flagrant 1, plus we've been putting up with your #### all game / career and we've had enough"
   1220. PJ Martinez Posted: June 14, 2021 at 11:08 AM (#6024107)
I wasn't watching the game; watching the replay, I thought Flagrant 1 would have been the right call. But "I wanted to make a hard foul" makes me think that perhaps Flagrant 2 was more appropriate after all?
   1221. tshipman Posted: June 14, 2021 at 12:22 PM (#6024116)
I guess where I was coming from was, if that was LeBron, there would be no way that a flagrant 2 would be called there.

The windup was bad, so I get why it was called like it was. That said, Payne sure played it up. It was a glancing blow off the face, and he acted like Jokic took his neck off.

To be clear, it certainly didn't seem to matter to the outcome of the series, and tossing Jokic was certainly in the bounds of reasonable. I was annoyed at Payne going full Hollywood, and at how arbitrary the flagrant rules seem now, but at the end of the day, Jokic put himself in a position where they could call a Flagrant 2, so he only has himself to blame.
   1222. jmurph Posted: June 14, 2021 at 01:23 PM (#6024120)
Sources: Mike D'Antoni to interview for Portland Trail Blazers' head-coaching job Monday

Maybe this is the right call, just go all in on the offense. Don't win anything but be very entertaining.
   1223. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 14, 2021 at 01:36 PM (#6024123)
I assume that were the Blazers to hire Mike Dan Tony they would also hire a well-qualified defensive expert assistant coach to bolster his staff; if the plan is to do everything to retain Dame and the roster adjustments are limited, I assume they'll be trying to maximize the impact the new coaching staff has on both sides of the ball. I think the league is more and more about coaching staffs and less just the coach. (It may be more true that this has been the case for some time but is being more accurately talked about these days.)
   1224. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: June 14, 2021 at 01:40 PM (#6024124)
I wonder if Vanterpool would go back to Portland?
   1225. spivey 2 Posted: June 14, 2021 at 02:05 PM (#6024125)
I assume that were the Blazers to hire Mike Dan Tony they would also hire a well-qualified defensive expert assistant coach to bolster his staff; if the plan is to do everything to retain Dame and the roster adjustments are limited, I assume they'll be trying to maximize the impact the new coaching staff has on both sides of the ball. I think the league is more and more about coaching staffs and less just the coach. (It may be more true that this has been the case for some time but is being more accurately talked about these days.)


Maybe so. I read an article on Cleaning the Glass yesterday, and there's obviously bias since Ben Falk worked for Portland, but it sounds like Stotts was very receptive to analytics, and really thought critically about how to apply it to the team and game. And he did mention something that was interesting, which is that since Stotts has been head coach they've consistently outperformed their net rating, and are by far #1 in the league in that time. Some of that may be the clutchness of Lillard, it also has me very much thinking, this is a roster problem. And they've had this roster problem pretty much all of Dame's prime, which is that their backcourt can't defend, and on top of that, their wing defending most years is pretty sketchy too.

I think they can make big changes to the structure of the roster - if they're willing to deal Nurkic and McCollum. And I think they should be.
   1226. tshipman Posted: June 14, 2021 at 02:12 PM (#6024126)
I don't really know what to do with Portland.

There are basically two blueprints for winning with a small guard as your best player: Golden State with Steph and Philly with Iverson.

Dame is probably better than Iverson, but worse than Steph. The era is also significantly different now. I think they've tried to copy the Steph blueprint, but it hasn't worked very well.

Maybe try the Iverson blueprint?
   1227. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 14, 2021 at 02:12 PM (#6024127)
Mavericks front office a concern in keeping Luka Doncic long-term: Sources

https://theathletic.com/news/mavericks-front-office-a-concern-in-keeping-luka-doncic-long-term-sources/2inXVCav9Xje


No idea if this has legs or what the biases are; I did see a couple of people talking about it. I don't subscribe, so I have not read it.



   1228. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 14, 2021 at 02:16 PM (#6024129)
Maybe try the Iverson blueprint?


Yeah. They obviously need a high-end defensive anchor. Also, very different time, but the Bad Boy Pistons, who were focused a lot on Isiah Thomas, had young Rodman and great size/length up front: Rick Mahorn, John Salley, James Edwards.
   1229. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 14, 2021 at 02:19 PM (#6024130)
[S]ince Stotts has been head coach they've consistently outperformed their net rating, and are by far #1 in the league in that time. Some of that may be the clutchness of Lillard, it also has me very much thinking, this is a roster problem. And they've had this roster problem pretty much all of Dame's prime, which is that their backcourt can't defend, and on top of that, their wing defending most years is pretty sketchy too.

I continue to think that the biggest issue the Blazers have had over the last near-decade is Olshey's inability to find any wings who could play both defense and offense. I think they need to trade CJ and probably also Nurk, but I also think they need a better GM and it seems like Olshey is safe, so we'll see. Stotts may have hit his expiration date with that team/locker room, but I agree that he did a pretty good job with what he was given year after year. It seems like a better idea to truly reshuffle things now with Dame safely under contract than to try to make smaller moves with a new coach, but we'll see. This will be an interesting stress test of Jody Allen's intentions for the team going forward. If they are in a similar spot a year from now with no more obvious road to improvement, it might be time to blow it up.
   1230. spivey 2 Posted: June 14, 2021 at 02:19 PM (#6024131)
Dame is probably better than Iverson, but worse than Steph. The era is also significantly different now. I think they've tried to copy the Steph blueprint, but it hasn't worked very well.


Steph was always underrated as a defender, and he was backed up by the #1 or #2 defense in the league two or three of those years. Tons of length on the wings, and then either Bogut, Draymond, or both at center. I absolutely think that model will still work, but if they tried to duplicate that model they didn't think critically about how to reproduce it. I actually think the Steph and Iverson blueprint are similar, the Steph version of the blue print is just the luxury model.
   1231. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 14, 2021 at 02:54 PM (#6024135)
I assume that were the Blazers to hire Mike Dan Tony they would also hire a well-qualified defensive expert assistant coach to bolster his staff; if the plan is to do everything to retain Dame and the roster adjustments are limited, I assume they'll be trying to maximize the impact the new coaching staff has on both sides of the ball. I think the league is more and more about coaching staffs and less just the coach. (It may be more true that this has been the case for some time but is being more accurately talked about these days.)
could the celtics have won in 08 without thibs?
Maybe so. I read an article on Cleaning the Glass yesterday, and there's obviously bias since Ben Falk worked for Portland, but it sounds like Stotts was very receptive to analytics, and really thought critically about how to apply it to the team and game. And he did mention something that was interesting, which is that since Stotts has been head coach they've consistently outperformed their net rating, and are by far #1 in the league in that time. Some of that may be the clutchness of Lillard, it also has me very much thinking, this is a roster problem. And they've had this roster problem pretty much all of Dame's prime, which is that their backcourt can't defend, and on top of that, their wing defending most years is pretty sketchy too.

if only they had thought to sign nerlens noel, jakarr sampson and james anderson.
   1232. tshipman Posted: June 14, 2021 at 03:00 PM (#6024136)
Steph was always underrated as a defender, and he was backed up by the #1 or #2 defense in the league two or three of those years. Tons of length on the wings, and then either Bogut, Draymond, or both at center. I absolutely think that model will still work, but if they tried to duplicate that model they didn't think critically about how to reproduce it. I actually think the Steph and Iverson blueprint are similar, the Steph version of the blue print is just the luxury model.


I think that Dame is closer to Iverson than Steph, actually, in how ball dominant he is. The way Kerr supercharged the Warriors was by running Steph off screens and I don't think that works for Lillard as well because of how you really want Lillard to run PnR.

I think Portland should have broken up the Lillard/McCollum thing a while ago, and this is sort of the consequence of not doing that.
   1233. aberg Posted: June 14, 2021 at 03:08 PM (#6024139)
In the cases of both Steph and AI, the teams were at their best when the built an excellent defense behind their defensively-limited one=man offense. I don't think the strategies are that different. Portland hasn't done that, partially because they have always had Dame play next to CJ, who is maybe an even worse defender. I don't know if they'd win more regular season games if they had a full lineup of guys who skew more defensive, but they'd probably raise their playoff ceiling. I don't know if their current roster has one player who fits that blueprint other than Covington.
   1234. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 14, 2021 at 03:08 PM (#6024138)
could the celtics have won in 08 without thibs?

Definitely not, and Thibs was the initial coach that led to that aside, but then Tex Winters etc came to mind and I wondered if I were imposing a hard line on a shift that has been more a matter of degree and increased media coverage.
   1235. aberg Posted: June 14, 2021 at 03:09 PM (#6024140)
Definitely not, and Thibs was the initial coach that led to that aside, but then Tex Winters etc came to mind and I wondered if I were imposing a hard line on a shift that has been more a matter of degree and increased media coverage.


And I think we can all agree that the Warriors would not have reached dynastic status without Mike Brown.
   1236. tshipman Posted: June 14, 2021 at 04:01 PM (#6024143)
Today I learned the following:

1. Haralabob is apparently the shadow GM of the Mavericks
2. Luka does not care for this.
   1237. aberg Posted: June 14, 2021 at 04:20 PM (#6024144)
I would love if Luka went to another team. Between the sexual harassment stuff and my general feelings about Dallas, there are at least 20-25 teams I'd rather watch him play for. The one thing Dallas has going for it is Carlisle, and the odds of him going to a better coach are pretty slim.
   1238. jmurph Posted: June 14, 2021 at 04:21 PM (#6024145)
Sean Highkin @highkin
About the Blazers’ coaching search: They’ll interview other people, but if it’s Neil Olshey’s hire, there’s only ever been one candidate and that’s Chauncey Billups. But ultimately, ownership has to sign off and who knows what they may have in mind.

   1239. asinwreck Posted: June 14, 2021 at 04:22 PM (#6024146)
Indeed, if Doug Collins had been more receptive to his assistants' ideas (both Tex Winter with the triangle and Johnny Bach on defensive schemes), maybe Jerry Krause doesn't replace him with Phil Jackson in 1989.

   1240. aberg Posted: June 14, 2021 at 04:29 PM (#6024148)
This is so extreme that it's almost hard to believe, "Voulgaris has been the most influential voice within the Mavericks front office since joining the team, either initiating or approving virtually every transaction made over the past two seasons. Those same sources add that Voulgaris has frequently gone as far as scripting the starting lineups and rotations for longtime head coach Rick Carlisle."
   1241. jmurph Posted: June 14, 2021 at 04:41 PM (#6024150)
Yeah that last sentence is tough to reconcile with everything we have heard about Carlisle as a coach.
   1242. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 14, 2021 at 04:43 PM (#6024151)
On the other hand, it is not difficult to imagine Mark Cuban being impressed enough with a guy who makes millions betting on the NBA to give him too much authority.
   1243. aberg Posted: June 14, 2021 at 04:48 PM (#6024152)
On the other hand, it is not difficult to imagine Mark Cuban being impressed enough with a guy who makes millions betting on the NBA to give him too much authority.


True. This whole situation sounds like it was devised at a dinner with Bill Simmons at a tacky Vegas steakhouse.
   1244. jmurph Posted: June 14, 2021 at 04:50 PM (#6024153)
On the other hand, it is not difficult to imagine Mark Cuban being impressed enough with a guy who makes millions betting on the NBA to give him too much authority

Absolutely true.

Anyway you can't argue with the results!
   1245. tshipman Posted: June 14, 2021 at 04:57 PM (#6024154)
I actually thought of you on that! You were saying that you thought it was remarkable that Donnie Nelson was still in charge, but it appears that he is not really in charge any more.
   1246. jmurph Posted: June 14, 2021 at 05:02 PM (#6024157)
I actually thought of you on that! You were saying that you thought it was remarkable that Donnie Nelson was still in charge, but it appears that he is not really in charge any more.

Ha, seriously. I stand corrected!
   1247. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: June 14, 2021 at 05:03 PM (#6024158)
could the celtics have won in 08 without thibs?


People may have forgotten this by now because Garnett got injured the following year and the the Heat formed the James-Wade-Bosh super team not long after, but that 2008 Celtics team was an all-time great team with Garnett, Pierce and Allen and they even had good role players like Rondo and Big Baby Davis. To not win a title with that roster would have been an embarrassment.
   1248. tshipman Posted: June 14, 2021 at 05:32 PM (#6024165)
I assure you that no one is at risk of forgetting the 2008 Celtics.
   1249. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 14, 2021 at 06:02 PM (#6024166)
I checked all of the wings that the Blazers employed during Terry Stotts' tenure, and it's every bit as grim as I recalled. Batum was pretty good for the first three years, but other than that it's Al-Farouq Aminu playing reliable defense and meh offense, Mo Harkless doing about the same for a year or two less, and then....Allen Crabbe? Jake Layman? Prior to Covington and Powell showing up this year it's really a wasteland of inefficient young scoring wings who didn't defend and decent defenders who were limited enough on offense that they were liabilities in the playoffs. Yeesh.
   1250. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: June 14, 2021 at 06:20 PM (#6024169)

I assure you that no one is at risk of forgetting the 2008 Celtics.


The who now?
   1251. smileyy Posted: June 14, 2021 at 07:07 PM (#6024172)
Given that Luka is good enough to drag the Mavs to at least a low playoff seed, they don't have a ton of opportunity to get better through the draft and their assets aren't exactly desirable for trades.

Luka is going to make some other team very successful.
   1252. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 14, 2021 at 08:02 PM (#6024175)
ALL-DEFENSIVE TEAM
First team
C: Rudy Gobert
F: Giannis Antetokounmpo
F: Draymond Green
G: Jrue Holiday
F: Ben Simmons

Second team
C: Joel Embiid
F: Bam Adebayo
F: Kawhi Leonard
G: Jimmy Butler
G: Matisse Thybulle
   1253. GregD Posted: June 14, 2021 at 08:10 PM (#6024179)
How is Draymond going to crow about beating out Kawhi? I'm sure he'll be understated
   1254. Mike A Posted: June 14, 2021 at 08:21 PM (#6024180)
Scans for Clint Capela's name on the all-defensive team...

I'm sure it's there somewhere.
   1255. tshipman Posted: June 14, 2021 at 08:41 PM (#6024181)
Is this the first time the #1 team in defense doesn't have anyone on the all defense team?
   1256. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 14, 2021 at 09:06 PM (#6024188)

I assure you that no one is at risk of forgetting the 2008 Celtics.


Between this and Cuban, I feel a little queasy.
   1257. smileyy Posted: June 14, 2021 at 09:16 PM (#6024190)
I'll be hecka amused if Ben Simmons misses a triple double on points.
   1258. smileyy Posted: June 14, 2021 at 09:18 PM (#6024191)
And, aw.
   1259. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 14, 2021 at 09:25 PM (#6024194)
I'll be hecka amused if Ben Simmons misses a triple double on points.

he's done it 4 times in his career, including once already in these playoffs.
   1260. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 14, 2021 at 09:34 PM (#6024201)
i would strongly prefer that the sixers not #### this game up.
   1261. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 14, 2021 at 09:40 PM (#6024203)
that seems like a dwight howard thing to do.
   1262. smileyy Posted: June 14, 2021 at 09:41 PM (#6024207)
Maybe I'm old and also that doesn't feel like a Flagrant-1 to me and on the third hand it probably is and should be.
   1263. CFBF's Results are Certified Posted: June 14, 2021 at 09:43 PM (#6024212)
Dwight Howard's hair.

That's it. That's the post.
   1264. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 14, 2021 at 09:47 PM (#6024216)
Maybe I'm old and also that doesn't feel like a Flagrant-1 to me and on the third hand it probably is and should be.
i think you could plausibly say that dwight howard was trying to box collins out, and collins tried to get under the box out by ducking, causing howard to inadvertently elbow him in the head.

i think you could also plausibly say that dwight howard knew exactly where collins was, and deliberately lined him up for an elbow to the head.


i'd have leaned towards calling a flagrant 1, but i wouldn't feel great about it.
   1265. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 14, 2021 at 10:03 PM (#6024227)
Dwight Howard's hair.

That's it. That's the post.
only those who risk going too far find out how far they can go
   1266. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 14, 2021 at 10:11 PM (#6024232)
Ky Carlin @Ky_Carlin
Seth Curry has not attempted a triple in the 2nd half. Philly has to get him open for a look. #Sixers
Ky Carlin @Ky_Carlin
Just a rare off night for Joel Embiid. He’s 0/11 from the floor in the 2nd half, but he is knocking down his free throws. #Sixers



and...####.
   1267. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: June 14, 2021 at 10:31 PM (#6024239)
True. This whole situation sounds like it was devised at a dinner with Bill Simmons at a tacky Vegas steakhouse.


This made me laugh. Thank you.
   1268. Howie Menckel Posted: June 14, 2021 at 10:40 PM (#6024246)
at a tacky Vegas steakhouse.

is there any other kind?

am going back on business in October.
:)
   1269. spivey 2 Posted: June 14, 2021 at 11:38 PM (#6024251)
I like Atlanta’s team and they’re doing it without Hunter too. Trae Young needs to clean up his shot selection as much as Giannis, frankly. Guarded Embiid really well.
   1270. tshipman Posted: June 15, 2021 at 12:19 AM (#6024253)
Goldsberry quantifying something that PJ Martinez has been noticing (along with others):

Kirk Goldsberry
@kirkgoldsberry
·
6h
Kyrie Irving will be the 7th different All-Star to miss a playoff game this year, the most in a season in NBA history.

He joins a list that already includes Anthony Davis, James Harden, Donovan Mitchell, Mike Conley, Jaylen Brown and Joel Embiid.
   1271. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 15, 2021 at 08:06 AM (#6024259)
I have been a Bucks semi-fan for years now, I have been sad about their recent playoff woes, but man if they beat the Nets (likely) it will be a travesty. The way they have played (and been coached) has been utter horse bleep and yet ...

So far the Suns have shown me a little bit and the pre-injury Nets, but all the other teams just seem so flawed and maddening.

We could easily end up with a Bucks v Clippers finals and that would have been awesome pre-playoffs, but now .... whoof. Oh well, I suppose by definition whoever makes the finals would have had to put together some solid series and so will look better at that point.
   1272. . . . . . . Posted: June 15, 2021 at 08:43 AM (#6024262)
Last night’s was a worthy heir to the “with no regard to human life” dunk.
   1273. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 15, 2021 at 10:33 AM (#6024268)
Playoffs/injuries: I have seen a couple of "Hunger Games" jokes. As a Lakers fan, Davis going down was frustrating to me personally, but it was also one of those things that happens. The Lakers caught some breaks in '20. But the playoffs in some ways right now are IMO being defined by the injuries, so I am not liking them as much. I don't believe in the * bullshitt, but it does seem to be pretty likely it will be the PHX/LAC winner vs. MIL, in part since they are the only teams whose key guys are all healthy.
Milwaukee: I wouldn't use the word "travesty" and I think some people are overreacting to Budenholzer, but beating BKN without Harden and Irving is, if they do, well, what it is. You can only beat who is in front of you. Also, the use of the word "slander" in relation to Middleton was a weird use of the word. Middleton has shot like crap in the playoffs in multiple series, I have pointed that out, and that is one big reason that Milwaukee has lost in postseason. He has also shot very well at times, like in G3, and I pointed that out, and he is a huge reason that Milwaukee is back in this series.
Phoenix: They have a very good team and deserve credit. They also had no real answer for Davis and were losing that series when he went down. They were perfectly set up to exploit Denver's depleted backcourt, and they did (Paul and Booker combined for 71 in G4). But if they play the Clippers, with Booker and Bridges dealing with Leonard and George, and Beverley around to annoy Paul, they will look flawed in a hurry (although they certainly can win the series if it happens).
   1274. asinwreck Posted: June 15, 2021 at 10:55 AM (#6024272)
@wojespn
Harden is expected to test his hamstring in shoot-around today and has been determined to try and find a way to get cleared to play Game 5, sources tell ESPN. There are no guarantees on his status but Harden is trying to play with series 2-2.[/quote
   1275. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 15, 2021 at 11:34 AM (#6024273)
I like Atlanta’s team and they’re doing it without Hunter too. Trae Young needs to clean up his shot selection as much as Giannis, frankly. Guarded Embiid really well.

I think at the end of the POR/DEN first round series, I compared ATL's roster to POR's and said that although I though the Hawks did a better job building around Trae than the Blazers did with Lillard I also pretty much dismissed the first round result differences between the teams as mainly the product of the West > East. I've been really impressed with how well ATL is playing this series, so maybe I underestimated them before (I still think I think that if the Hawks had Lillard instead of Trae this year they'd be a real threat to come out of what the East is right now).

Then again, maybe the easiest explanation last night is that Embiid is hurt; he wasn't the same after he left and came back in. The Sixers without Embiid aren't that good, as others on here have pointed out.

Kirk Goldsberry @kirkgoldsberry ·13h
Joel Embiid went 0-12 in the 2nd half. That's the most attempts in a half without a make over the last 25 postseasons.

Kirk Goldsberry @kirkgoldsberry ·13h
With his final miss in crunch time, Embiid surpassed Michael Jordan, who went 0 for 11 in the 1st half of Game 4 of the 1997 Eastern Conference Finals.

Kirk Goldsberry @kirkgoldsberry ·13h
Embiid's 0 for 12 is also tied for the most attempts without a make in a half over the last 25 seasons, *regular season or playoffs*


I'm still not sure how he missed that layup right at the end.

EDIT: Wait, Simmons only had 1 FGA in the 2nd half? WTF.
   1276. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 15, 2021 at 11:38 AM (#6024275)
The Vertical @YahooSportsNBA
Damian Lillard and Draymond Green have committed to play for Team USA at the Tokyo Olympics, per @Shams Charania and @Joe Vardon. pic.twitter.com/C1asGgjUop
Sopan Deb @SopanDeb
apparently we only have two more years left of charles barkley on the air bit.ly/3iJyQ0y pic.twitter.com/JE9Qhay3Ry
Jon Krawczynski @JonKrawczynski
Glen Taylor fires back at Meyer Orbach in court, as a squabble over money brings rare transparency to the shrouded world of pro sports ownership theathletic.com/2651406/2021/0…
Michael Grange @michaelgrange
Confirmed for @CanBball SMNT camp (so far): Andrew Wiggins, Dwight Powell, Cory Joseph, Lu Dort, Nickeil Walker-Alexander, Melvin Ejim, Kaza Kajami-Keane, Anthony Bennett; Trae Bell-Hynes.
   1277. jmurph Posted: June 15, 2021 at 01:18 PM (#6024284)
Agree with others that there is no such thing as an asterisk in the playoffs, you only get to play who you get to play. That said (ha), the Bucks getting by an injured Nets and then getting to face a hobbled Embiid to get to the Finals would be about as close as you can get to deserving one. Does anyone seriously doubt they're down 3-1 if Kyrie doesn't go down the other day?

Now on the third hand, Milwaukee-Phoenix/Utah would be a fun change of pace for the Finals, that's for sure.
   1278. spivey 2 Posted: June 15, 2021 at 01:36 PM (#6024287)
Agree with others that there is no such thing as an asterisk in the playoffs, you only get to play who you get to play. That said (ha), the Bucks getting by an injured Nets and then getting to face a hobbled Embiid to get to the Finals would be about as close as you can get to deserving one. Does anyone seriously doubt they're down 3-1 if Kyrie doesn't go down the other day?


Yeah, I doubt that. Kyrie played about half the game, Milwaukee was winning when Kyrie went out, and Durant had a very poor game. I'm not saying they guaranteed win it, but I don't see why it is implausible or even unlikely.

Edit: That said, I agree it would be a bummer if Kyrie/Harden don't play the rest of the series. I expect we will see at least one of them again in the series - probably Harden. I don't think there's any chance he doesn't at least try to suit up in an elimination game. Worst cast scenario his hamstring isn't 100% and he re-aggravates it.
   1279. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 15, 2021 at 02:01 PM (#6024289)
Shams Charania @ShamsCharania ·48m
Nets‘ James Harden plans to play tonight in Game 5 vs. Milwaukee barring a setback in pregame warmups, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium. He’s been upgraded to questionable.


I understand the desperation, but there's no way he's 100% and even if they get a win today (or in this series) he's gotta to be a huge risk in every game he plays for some time. OTOH, if he can stick this out and the Nets win, he'll have done wonders for his legacy.
   1280. tshipman Posted: June 15, 2021 at 02:14 PM (#6024293)
I get how players see the hero narrative, but how in the world is Harden supposed to compete as a perimeter defender in a switching system with a bad hamstring?
   1281. aberg Posted: June 15, 2021 at 02:19 PM (#6024296)
I'm getting flashbacks to AD in the first round, limping up and down the court a couple times and then sitting on the bench with his towel on his head the rest of the game.
   1282. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 15, 2021 at 02:20 PM (#6024298)
John Hollinger
@johnhollinger
·
43m
Interesting situation in each of the active series right now. Normally a 2-2 series pretty heavily favors the home-court advantage team. But in this case, all three of those teams have an injured All-Star.
   1283. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 15, 2021 at 02:23 PM (#6024299)
That puts even more pressure on Kevin Durant, who has carried the Nets this series and provided 28 points and 13 rebounds Sunday. The only other Net in double figures was Irving, who had 11 points before leaving.

After Irving made a basket in the paint to cut the Bucks’ lead to 44-40 midway through the second quarter, his left leg hit the right leg of Antetokounmpo on his way down and his ankle rolled. Irving landed awkwardly and clutched his right ankle as play briefly continued on the other end of the floor.


No one knows, ofc, and arguing counteractuals is pointless. For the record, Brooklyn was down 4 and Irving was scoring at a pretty good clip.
   1284. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 15, 2021 at 02:32 PM (#6024302)
I think any championship is as valid as any other. But still, the coaching and play from the Bucks this series have been kind of sad. They just don't feel like a very good team right now (I mean they have been largely stymied by the immovable object known as the Nets defense!), and yet they have a fair shot at winning the title.

But like I said, no matter how it looks now whoever wins the title will have had a run of success and will almost certainly look better than they do now.
   1285. tshipman Posted: June 15, 2021 at 02:44 PM (#6024303)
I think any championship is as valid as any other. But still, the coaching and play from the Bucks this series have been kind of sad. They just don't feel like a very good team right now (I mean they have been largely stymied by the immovable object known as the Nets defense!), and yet they have a fair shot at winning the title.


I'm starting to feel like Bud and Giannis deserve each other.

You have a two-time MVP being guarded by has beens and nobodies and he settles for bad 3s and shoots 38% from the FT line.
   1286. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 15, 2021 at 03:55 PM (#6024320)
I know it sucks that so many important players are injured for this postseason (though it's also in no way surprising, given the realities of the schedule over the last year), but I'm kinda concerned about the long-term health of a few players. It seems like Harden and Embiid, at the very least, are playing with fire in terms of their long-term health, and I hope they don't pay too much of a price for it.

On Bud/Giannis, they may deserve each other, but I think that's more damning of the coach than the player still. If Giannis has a tendency to play into the teeth of the defense like this, you'd want his coach to help him avoid that, not just roll with it.
   1287. smileyy Posted: June 15, 2021 at 07:06 PM (#6024339)
Giannis (and Simmons) leave so many points at the line that they're a real liability to a championship team. I guess a parallel is Shaq, and also neither of those guys are Shaq.
   1288. spivey 2 Posted: June 15, 2021 at 09:00 PM (#6024358)
Milwaukee is playing really well, and I think is starting to really figure out how to guard Brooklyn. But they need to stay out of foul trouble. That's really the thing I was worried coming into this game about.
   1289. spivey 2 Posted: June 15, 2021 at 09:16 PM (#6024361)
I hate this lineup right now where Durant is out there and Middleton and Tucker are not. Tucker has 6 fouls on Durant. Why not use all of them.
   1290. spivey 2 Posted: June 15, 2021 at 09:21 PM (#6024363)
Don't think Harden is adding anything. I mean, he got 2 fouls on Jrue, so not nothing, I guess. But he's not scaring their defense.
   1291. spivey 2 Posted: June 15, 2021 at 09:31 PM (#6024365)
Giannis not shooting 3s with more than 10 seconds on the clock is outstanding.
   1292. spivey 2 Posted: June 15, 2021 at 09:34 PM (#6024366)
Connaughton and Brolo have been way better defensively the last few games. When we have 5 of Tucker, Jrue, Middleton, Giannis, Connaughton, and Lopez out there, I just don't think they can score at an NBA rate right now.
   1293. spivey 2 Posted: June 15, 2021 at 09:59 PM (#6024368)
Milwaukee got very lucky they called that foul call on Harden on Middleton instead of Tucker, who reached and should have picked up his 3rd. I stand by Milwaukee only losing due to foul trouble, or maybe Jeff Green shooting 12-14 from 3. Durant has played outstanding. He just doesn't have enough help. I thought going into this series, and after the first 2 games, that Joe Harris was the 7th best player in the series. He's really struggled to deal with physical defense and a larger scoring load. Still really like him as a player, though.
   1294. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: June 15, 2021 at 10:00 PM (#6024369)
Seems weird that Kenny/Chuck spent halftime complaining about Brook Lopez not gunning for his own offense in the post after the Bucks had one of their better offensive halves of the series. Or maybe it's not weird I never usually actually listen to them.
   1295. spivey 2 Posted: June 15, 2021 at 10:02 PM (#6024370)
I mean, they're absolutely right that the Bucks offense just pisses away a ton of possessions. But they were absolutely focusing on the wrong stuff in that segment.
   1296. tshipman Posted: June 15, 2021 at 10:03 PM (#6024371)
Harden is 1-8, with three turnovers and -11. It's always a bad move.
   1297. tshipman Posted: June 15, 2021 at 10:07 PM (#6024372)
Kenny and Charles always have terrible adjustments. They've been out of the game for so long that they don't really have good answers for what's going on.
   1298. spivey 2 Posted: June 15, 2021 at 10:11 PM (#6024373)
Griffin flops so god damn much, it's exhausting.
   1299. spivey 2 Posted: June 15, 2021 at 10:18 PM (#6024376)
Durant has been amazing today. Gonna end up with 35, but he's made some really nice passes. He's a hell of a player.
   1300. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: June 15, 2021 at 10:22 PM (#6024377)
KD is such a warrior. The guy's come back from bad injuries multiple times in his career, and he's still one of best players in the world.
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