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Friday, May 21, 2021

NBA 2021 Playoffs+ thread

I estimate there are maybe 10-12 Primates left on this site, and they all post in the NBA thread.

Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: May 21, 2021 at 01:07 PM | 4930 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: clutch, narratives, nba, off topic, redemption

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   1501. asinwreck Posted: June 18, 2021 at 05:38 PM (#6025002)
If the Lakers want another of their core players to be one with chronic questions about availability due to leg injuries, the rest of the West would appreciate that gamble. Lowry seems a much better bet to be productive next year.
   1502. Hombre Brotani Posted: June 18, 2021 at 05:45 PM (#6025003)
I agree with this. I just think the takeaway is more about Giannis' limitations than about Middleton's. Middleton could be #2 on a championship team with a truly elite #1.
This begs the question: If a 26-year-old, two-time MVP Giannis isn't a truly elite #1, who is? If Giannis and Middleton aren't enough, then how are the Bucks going to add on enough talent to help them? Giannis' supermax kicks in next year, as does Jrue Holiday's massive 4-year extension. That's ~$106 million between those three, ~$120 million when you add Brook Lopez's contract in there. That's a 50-win team every year, but they're going to keep running into the same problems in the playoffs.

I'm a Lakers fan, so I'm used to a team that has to deal with this sort of thing. I imagine it's easier recruiting veteran ring-chasers when you have Kobe and Lebron than it would be with someone else? Or maybe just getting a different coaching staff will solve it? I don't know.
   1503. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 18, 2021 at 06:07 PM (#6025006)
I think Antetokounmpo is a #1, but he is not the same type of #1 as the other guys I mentioned in that post--the creative multifaceted offensive fulcrum. So Milwaukee needs a 2 or 3 who can do some of that better than the guys they have had. But Middleton just put up 33 in G3 and 38 in G6, so maybe he is that guy and just has had some off games. If you think of Antetokounmpo as being more like Garnett or Davis than like James, I think that is a #1 but one who needs a different type of 2 and 3--the guy who can create some O on his own.

The thing with James (or Jordan) is that they are/were so awesome in so many phases of the game that you can pair them with different types of #2 guys. Jordan ofc always had Pippen, but there are other guys I think that he could have won with as Chicago's 2nd-best guy. But they are the only two guys on that level.

Curry was/is a #1 on O, but he needed that elite defender--Green. Bryant was a #1 on O, but not as efficient/gifted as James/Jordan, so he needed bigs who could play efficiently around him--Gasol, Odom, Bynum. Magic was a #1 on O, but he needed defensive help (Cooper) and guys who could convert all his great passes and/or be a half-court option (Worthy, Abdul-Jabbar). So I don't agree entirely that it has been about Antetokounmpo's limitations; I think it has also been about Middleton's and Bledsoe/Holiday's. I was not 100% sold on Holiday as an answer when they traded for him as I said, although I would have made the deal too.

But ofc this narrative is in flux; maybe Milwaukee wins the title this year. At the same time, while this will annoy the Milwaukee fans, it is worth noting in the context of this discussion that they have not faced full-strength Brooklyn in any of the six games.





   1504. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 18, 2021 at 06:17 PM (#6025008)
Why would Schroder do it? Money. Also Schroder had a good year in OKC; he might not mind going back.
Why would the Lakers do it? To get a 3rd scoring option. Walker, if he can get/stay on the floor, makes sense for the Lakers. But as noted adding another guy with health concerns would be problematic.

As to OKC, Walker is obviously going somewhere, I think.

Like I said, it was just fan spec from two friends of mine, but I am sure that it will be on the net in LakerLand soon.

As to Lowry, supposedly Ujiri was willing to do Lowry for THT/Schroder/Kuzma, and maybe a pick, but Pelinka said no because of THT. No idea if that is true but it has been rumored.
   1505. spivey 2 Posted: June 18, 2021 at 06:51 PM (#6025011)
But ofc this narrative is in flux; maybe Milwaukee wins the title this year. At the same time, while this will annoy the Milwaukee fans, it is worth noting in the context of this discussion that they have not faced full-strength Brooklyn in any of the six games.


I am not sure it annoys most Milwaukee fans, and I think the context of their injuries and Milwaukee still being in this dogfight is a big reason why people are pretty on edge about the team and the coach. It's one thing to lose in 6 or 7 to Brooklyn when they're playing incredible basketball with the big 3 healthy. I think people would still want Bud fired, but the narrative is absolutely being driven by the injuries on Brooklyn. In particular Game 5, when they mostly just had Durant (Harden was solid if not MVP level last night, and they got 3.5 games of healthy Kyrie).
   1506. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 18, 2021 at 07:36 PM (#6025014)
a lot of playoff teams can win 4 out of 7 games.

but it takes a truly special team to have to win 6 out of 7.
   1507. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 18, 2021 at 07:53 PM (#6025018)
here's a fun one, from the 4th quarter of game 3:
1162. smileyy Posted: June 11, 2021 at 09:56 PM (#6023860)
Why is Embiid even in the game?
1163. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 11, 2021 at 10:11 PM (#6023863)
Why is Embiid even in the game?
...because the game isn't over?



were you shocked by the events that occurred in games 4 and 5, other 57i66135?

why, no, other 57i66135; no, i was not.
   1508. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 18, 2021 at 08:00 PM (#6025019)
the sixers deserve to lose this game by 45.
   1509. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 18, 2021 at 08:14 PM (#6025021)
i don't know how the sixers are only down 7.
   1510. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 18, 2021 at 08:21 PM (#6025022)
and it's tied.
   1511. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 18, 2021 at 08:26 PM (#6025024)
these offensive rebounds are killing me.
   1512. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 18, 2021 at 08:26 PM (#6025025)
these airballs are killing me.
   1513. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 18, 2021 at 08:32 PM (#6025026)
embiid is barely mobile. he has no lift whatsoever.
   1514. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 18, 2021 at 08:40 PM (#6025028)
ATL should be targeting embiid on offense. trae young should run him through pnr after pnr after pnr until his body gives out.


and there it is. they figured it out.
   1515. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 18, 2021 at 08:42 PM (#6025029)
trae young has embraced the lou for one.
   1516. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 18, 2021 at 08:55 PM (#6025036)
Law Murray @LawMurrayTheNU
76ers only down four even though one All-Star has more turnovers than buckets and the other All-Star has more fouls than buckets
Dave McMenamin @mcten
With Trae Young already up to 20 pts and 7 ast, and Joel Embiid shooting 4-for-11 with 5 turnovers, the Sixers are mighty fortunate to only be down 51-47 at the half. Tyrese Maxey gave them huge minutes (9 pts, 6 reb) and Tobias Harris got it going (12 pts on 5-for-8 in 2nd Q)
Drew Shiller @DrewShiller
Ben Simmons’ 1st half:
-9 minutes
-3 fouls
-Minus 15 with the 76ers trailing by just 4 points …
Matthew Tynan @Matthew_Tynan
Will forever love Hubie Brown always making sure we know each player’s height.
Derek Bodner @DerekBodnerNBA
Tyrese Maxey 30 foot heave as the shot clock expired to a Furkan Korkmaz offensive rebound. Just as you would draw that up.

   1517. asinwreck Posted: June 18, 2021 at 08:56 PM (#6025038)
Why would Schroder do it? Money. Also Schroder had a good year in OKC; he might not mind going back.

But the team he left was very different from the team he'd be joining. Chris Paul is in Phoenix and Billy Donovan is in Chicago. The Bulls would probably love to have Schroder, but I suspect he'll be able to get his money from a team with a good shot at playing in the postseason. I could see the Heat bidding for him if they can't get Lowry.

Lowry's decision will affect the market. He's not a given to return to the Raptors and could be a real useful piece for the Sixers, Lakers, Heat, or Celtics. The losers for his services may give Schroder the payday he wants.
   1518. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: June 18, 2021 at 09:02 PM (#6025039)
But ofc this narrative is in flux; maybe Milwaukee wins the title this year. At the same time, while this will annoy the Milwaukee fans, it is worth noting in the context of this discussion that they have not faced full-strength Brooklyn in any of the six games.

yeah I'm with Spivey, this isn't annoying at all. The only reason I pushed back in defense of Khris is because he has historically performed well in past playoffs and now he's the only one of the core figures who has done their job in this series-- Giannis, Bud and Jrue all need to be better.
   1519. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 18, 2021 at 09:16 PM (#6025040)
But the team he left was very different from the team he'd be joining. Chris Paul is in Phoenix and Billy Donovan is in Chicago. The Bulls would probably love to have Schroder, but I suspect he'll be able to get his money from a team with a good shot at playing in the postseason. I could see the Heat bidding for him if they can't get Lowry.

Lowry's decision will affect the market. He's not a given to return to the Raptors and could be a real useful piece for the Sixers, Lakers, Heat, or Celtics. The losers for his services may give Schroder the payday he wants.
my guess is the heat will bring back josh richardson in a sign and trade.
   1520. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 18, 2021 at 09:16 PM (#6025041)
If the Sixers are gonna lose this series, I'd much rather it be in Philly.
   1521. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 18, 2021 at 09:16 PM (#6025042)
1: that's an offensive foul on collins.
2: you can't ####### call that an offensive foul.
   1522. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 18, 2021 at 09:18 PM (#6025043)
If the Sixers are gonna lose this series, I'd much rather it be in Philly.
even if the sixers win in 7, you can't watch embiid tonight and think his body will hold up through two more rounds.
   1523. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: June 18, 2021 at 09:18 PM (#6025044)
Why would Schroder do it? Money. Also Schroder had a good year in OKC; he might not mind going back.

I think the real question is, why would OKC do this? They can move Walker for something without having to take on Scroder's money.
   1524. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 18, 2021 at 09:28 PM (#6025046)
1241. aberg Posted: November 18, 2020 at 11:12 PM (#5989831)
So Philly is making a bad trade just to get Doc's SIL? That seems like malpractice
   1525. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 18, 2021 at 09:31 PM (#6025047)
Brad Botkin @bradbotkincbs
Imagine getting Trae Young AND a lottery pick and losing the trade

The Vertical @YahooSportsNBA
The Jazz say Mike Conley is available to play in tonight's Game 6 against the Clippers. pic.twitter.com/vckO5nBn6S
Eric Walden @tribjazz
Donovan Mitchell just wrapped up his pregame workout. Looked relatively normal. Would guess he'll be available, but we'll get official word shortly.
Peter Vecsey @PeterVecsey1
How many months pregnant do you think Rivers is?

   1526. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 18, 2021 at 09:41 PM (#6025050)
oh for ##### sake.


these foul calls on simmons are ####### rigged.
   1527. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 18, 2021 at 09:49 PM (#6025053)
giving embiid a bunch of rest while simmons shoots FTs does not seem like an optimal strategy for ATL.
   1528. mike f Posted: June 18, 2021 at 09:50 PM (#6025054)
These refs are out of control.
   1529. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 18, 2021 at 09:55 PM (#6025057)
that is not an offensive foul.

that is a textbook chickenshit playoff double technical.
   1530. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 18, 2021 at 09:58 PM (#6025058)
John Hollinger @johnhollinger
Replay shows Embiid telling Collins "whatever happens tonight, the sun will eventually burn out and we'll all die" Technical foul for a metaphysical taunt.

   1531. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: June 18, 2021 at 09:58 PM (#6025059)
I liked two things in that sequence: Trae trying and failing to budge Embiid; and Gallo just dribbling at the foul line like, nope, not getting into that shitshow.
   1532. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 18, 2021 at 10:02 PM (#6025061)
palming? what in the everloving #### are these refs doing?
   1533. spivey 2 Posted: June 18, 2021 at 10:04 PM (#6025062)
That Trae Young was just absurd.
   1534. PJ Martinez Posted: June 18, 2021 at 10:04 PM (#6025063)
Oh man, that last Young three was something.
   1535. asinwreck Posted: June 18, 2021 at 10:05 PM (#6025064)
A power failure makes sense here.
   1536. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 18, 2021 at 10:06 PM (#6025065)
A power failure makes sense here.
what a huge break for the sixers, and therefore, of course, the world.
   1537. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 18, 2021 at 10:22 PM (#6025067)
eh, sure, i guess.
   1538. Mike A Posted: June 18, 2021 at 10:26 PM (#6025069)
Sad for my Hawks, but they fought hard. I didn't think they had a chance in this series after losing Hunter so to take this to 7 is a bonus. But, man, those missed free throws.

I don't hold out much hope for said game 7, but I guess we will see. Tonight's game reminded me of the 1988 series where the Hawks went back home against the Celtics up 3-2 but lost on a Cliff Levingston missed shot that still haunts.
   1539. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 18, 2021 at 10:27 PM (#6025071)
my prediction for sunday:

the sixers will get out to a 20 point lead in the first half...and then they'll win by 35+
   1540. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: June 18, 2021 at 10:28 PM (#6025072)
Disappointing game.

I thought that Atlanta did have a decent chance in the series, despite being clearly inferior. I mean, they still do, but that really felt like the game they could win.
   1541. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 18, 2021 at 10:34 PM (#6025074)
1540

Yeah. It is hard to pull off upsets in the NBA Playoffs.
   1542. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 18, 2021 at 10:37 PM (#6025076)
They can move Walker for something without having to take on Scroder's money.


Sure, maybe. But Walker has a massive contract, so some salary ballast will be involved.
   1543. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 18, 2021 at 10:42 PM (#6025079)
Sure, maybe. But Walker has a massive contract, so some salary ballast will be involved.

OKC is (probably) going to keep kemba until next season's trade deadline, at which point they'll trade him for expiring contracts and 2 future first round picks.
   1544. asinwreck Posted: June 18, 2021 at 11:10 PM (#6025102)
Clarkson is on fire tonight.
   1545. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 18, 2021 at 11:18 PM (#6025105)
12/19 from three will do some nice things for you, too, dang.
   1546. asinwreck Posted: June 19, 2021 at 12:06 AM (#6025114)
Clarkson and Mann traded bodies, apparently.
   1547. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: June 19, 2021 at 12:34 AM (#6025118)
Ty Lue has completely outcoached Snyder this series. Embarrassing. Rudy is useless if they have to face a single team that can play five out...which seems to be at least once a playoffs. Never gonna do #### when you your coach can't make a single adjustment and one of your max players can't be effective for at least one series a year.

They also might not have a single average defender besides Rudy. For all the hype some Jazz fans give Royece, he's been getting blown by with zero screens practically every drive this series.
   1548. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 19, 2021 at 12:42 AM (#6025120)
49% to 51% 3pt shooting so far in this one, good lord. What bonkers shotmaking in this game. I don't think anyone had Beverley hitting three in a row on their bingo card.
   1549. SteveF Posted: June 19, 2021 at 12:54 AM (#6025121)
Honestly hard to imagine Utah ever having an easier path to a title than they had this year after Kawhi went down. This one is pretty crushing.
   1550. tshipman Posted: June 19, 2021 at 01:23 AM (#6025124)
The idea that the Clippers could possibly make and win the NBA finals because no one has an answer for Nic Batum at Center is just borderline inexplicable.

Edit: Rudy winning the DPOY three times is such a joke.
   1551. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: June 19, 2021 at 01:27 AM (#6025125)
Edit: Rudy winning the DPOY three times is such a joke.


No it's not. It's a regular season award and he was the best defender in the regular season each time.
   1552. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: June 19, 2021 at 01:30 AM (#6025126)
@rgiss11
I just don’t know how you watch the Nuggets spam Jokic-Murray pick and pop to win 3 consecutive playoff games, then watch the Clippers spam the corner three and trap defensively to win 4 consecutive games, two without Kawhi Leonard, and NOT have the conclusion of fire your coach.
   1553. tshipman Posted: June 19, 2021 at 01:39 AM (#6025127)
This gets philosophical really quickly, but I would say that Gobert was not the best defender in the regular season, but his weaknesses weren't exposed in the regular season.

DPOY is about talent/ability just as much as results.
   1554. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: June 19, 2021 at 01:42 AM (#6025128)
But, man, those missed free throws.


Kind of a funny complaint for the Hawk fan to make in this series.
   1555. Moeball Posted: June 19, 2021 at 01:47 AM (#6025129)
RE: Boston getting Horford back. In his first go round with the C's I seem to recall him playing pretty well there, in fact, didn't he seem to match up decently against Embiid, or at least as well as anyone can? I think that was the player Philadelphia was hoping to get; that was not the Horford they actually got. Was the difference really just coaching? Did Stevens really just bring out Big Al's best? Is that why Brad wants him back? Does he think the magic will repeat?
   1556. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 19, 2021 at 02:06 AM (#6025130)
Stevens had a better experience with Horford than with Walker, and Horford is many millions cheaper. Both of them can still play pretty well and both of them have two years on their deals. The question is how often they play.

After G5, I said I thought that Utah would still win. Was not counting on Terance Mann--must be the name.

Sabreena Merchant
@sabreenajm
· 53m
Ty Lue says: Once the Lakers are gone, you should be cheering for the Clippers because it's all one city.
   1557. Hombre Brotani Posted: June 19, 2021 at 03:50 AM (#6025131)
Fat chance, Ty. From LA, but ain't LA.
   1558. SteveF Posted: June 19, 2021 at 04:24 AM (#6025132)
Aren't the Lakers from Minneapolis?
   1559. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: June 19, 2021 at 05:05 AM (#6025133)
Bryant was a #1 on O, but not as efficient/gifted as James/Jordan, so he needed bigs who could play efficiently around him--Gasol, Odom, Bynum.


How does Shaq not make this list?


RE: Boston getting Horford back. In his first go round with the C's I seem to recall him playing pretty well there, in fact, didn't he seem to match up decently against Embiid, or at least as well as anyone can? I think that was the player Philadelphia was hoping to get; that was not the Horford they actually got.


Turns out being good against Embiid is less valuable when Embiid is on your team.
   1560. jmurph Posted: June 19, 2021 at 07:41 AM (#6025134)
Didn’t even occur to me to check the Clippers-Jazz score- I went to bed at halftime and assumed they continued to roll.

It can be said about several teams that lose this year- if the Bucks don’t pull it out, if the Sixers blow game 7, etc.- but yeah, if you can’t get at least get to the conference finals this year I don’t know what to say.
   1561. jmurph Posted: June 19, 2021 at 08:05 AM (#6025136)
I think the internet is too quick to want teams to blow it up, but the Jazz… need to do something big. It is definitely difficult with those Gobert salary numbers though (I have to admit I’m pretty sure I defended that one at the time, and mostly stand by it).
   1562. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: June 19, 2021 at 10:07 AM (#6025148)
[1559] I was going to postbthe same snark about Shaq, but when Kobe and Shaq were on the same team, Kobe was the second best player, so I’m guessing he didn’t count it for that reason.
   1563. Mike A Posted: June 19, 2021 at 10:08 AM (#6025150)

Kind of a funny complaint for the Hawk fan to make in this series.
Trae, Huerter, and Bogi are like a combined 86% at the line, and they went 4-9 yesterday. That's frustrating to any fan.

The 3-point line is the bigger issue, where the teams were an equal 37% over the course of the season, but in this series the 76ers are shooting 42% vs the Hawks' 34.5%. And that's pretty much all Seth Curry.

So, we have to blame Dallas yet again.
   1564. PJ Martinez Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:22 AM (#6025154)
Is there any kind of timetable for Kawhi's return?
   1565. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:54 AM (#6025155)
Mike A, if they shot 89% yesterday they still lose.

Ben Simmons is shooting something like 33% from the line.

The 3 point complaint is far more reasonable. :)
   1566. tshipman Posted: June 19, 2021 at 01:49 PM (#6025165)
Somehow we need to get Coach Bud and the Baguette Biyombo on the same team so they can win 70 games and lose in the second round.
   1567. spivey 2 Posted: June 19, 2021 at 04:02 PM (#6025172)
Gobert is getting a lot of blame, but with Conley and Mitchell hurt, it didn't seem like Utah could stay in front on the perimeter at all. If you go no bigs, you're giving up a ton of layups. Obviously, Snyder went with Gobert and 3 point variance, which they did not get. And I probably make some adjustments at some point. But, Utah didn't seem to have an answer, period. Especially since they also sucked on offense in the second half.
   1568. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 19, 2021 at 05:05 PM (#6025178)
Was the difference really just coaching? Did Stevens really just bring out Big Al's best? Is that why Brad wants him back? Does he think the magic will repeat?

The main problem in Philly was that Horford can't play power forward and isn't a great spot-up shooter, so playing next to Embiid was a bad fit. He played well enough in OKC this year that they shut him down to make sure they lost enough. He's also 35, so we'll see, but he seems perfectly reasonable as Timelord backup/injury insurance. A lot of the team still knows and likes him, and Williams has raved about him as a big man mentor. He'll slot in as an elder statesman culturally even if he can't play, but I'm also optimistic he can still play some version of the offensive role he did when he was in Boston before and defend at a non-terrible level. (I don't imagine he'll be taking Giannis and Embiid solo any more, however.)

Having marinated on it for a day I like the trade for both teams; OKC can either flip Kemba for other assets if another team gets desperate for a guard this offseason and gets another mid-first round pick (though at some point they'll have too many picks for their roster/development spots, but there are worse problems to have), and Boston gains in both cap and roster terms.

The cap part is pretty self-evident, as Horford is cheaper and only partially guaranteed in his last year, but I'm enthusiastic about the roster shift too. Kemba is still good when he's healthy and clearly a great teammate, but he's also at best ok defensively and needs the ball in his hands in a way that doesn't fit perfectly with the Js for Boston. Moving him shifts Marcus Smart to being your starting point guard as you can run much of the offense through Tatum and Brown, which is a big wing/power forward away from being the recipe for a potentially hellacious defense. There are still some moves to be made (ship TT out as an expiring, assuming they're not terrified of Robert Williams' medical records, see if there's a decent power forward to be had, hopefully resign Fournier to a two-year deal, maybe get a non-Pritchard backup PG), but it makes sense if Brad Stevens is trying to make the kind of long, tenacious roster he never quite got as coach. Moses Brown could be a guy, and the pick is a first round pick, but it also makes sense to not add another mid-round guy to sort out if they think Langford and Nesmith are going to be rotation players.
   1569. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: June 19, 2021 at 05:06 PM (#6025180)

Gobert is getting a lot of blame, but with Conley and Mitchell hurt, it didn't seem like Utah could stay in front on the perimeter at all. If you go no bigs, you're giving up a ton of layups. Obviously, Snyder went with Gobert and 3 point variance, which they did not get. And I probably make some adjustments at some point. But, Utah didn't seem to have an answer, period. Especially since they also sucked on offense in the second half.


Yup, he's getting way too much blame from casual fans and people who just love to hate him when the biggest problem by far was that not a single Jazz perimeter defender could stay in front of their man even without screens. However, he's a max player because he turns a bad defense into a top one in the regular season and so even if the poor defense is not really his fault in these series, it's gonna be hard to build a team that can get to the finals with him making max money when he can't do the same against 5-out lineups (and also probably against the Suns since I doubt Snyder would adjust and actually have Gobert play up on Christ Paul's midrange shot).

This article is basically spot on, IMO: https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2021/6/19/22541147/rudy-gobert-jazz-vs-clippers-game-6-nba-playoffs-2021

Snyder has not shown any ability to adjust in the playoffs. The Jazz have wasted way too much money on another (and sadly washed) traditional center and for some reason their first round pick last year. And they desperately need an athletic, lockdown defensive big wing.

Also this:
@andyblarsen
- I’m as pro analytics as it gets and playing the percentages is smart. But sometimes I think the Jazz get so focused on playing +EV defense that they forget about playing shutdown defense. A 3 from a bad shooter might be worth 1 PPP… but a block or a 24-sec violation is 0 PPP


And Ingles was basically a ghost both series. Refused to rotate, was slow (even for his standards) on both ends, and just looked disengaged and apparently was yelling at teammates even when it was him who blew coverage.

The only positive I'm feeling right now is that I'm confident Donovan is a 16-game player. This is two playoffs in a row where he's been one of the best in the league, and he wasn't even healthy this year. The improvement in his shooting range and step-back threes is amazing.
   1570. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 19, 2021 at 05:58 PM (#6025185)
so I’m guessing he didn’t count it for that reason.


Narrator: His guess was correct. O'Neal/Bryant does show again that if your #1 guy is a big, then you need a perimeter creator with him, a formula that has been working, literally, since George Mikan and Slater Martin if the two guys are good enough (Putting in the Minneapolis Lakers ref for SteveF, who is probably reading this wearing a Boston Braves cap). The Bulls did not have this, since Jordan or Pippen overlapped, but they were so good/multidimensional that it didn't matter, and I remember that Jackson used to run his rotations so that either Jordan and Pippen was on the floor as long as the game was in question.

Utah: Blowing it up would be dumb. As Cervo says, they need some athleticism on the wings, but other than that, they should just run it back with personnel (although I suppose that Conley may leave). Since Mitchell turns 25 in September and his 3P% has gone from .340 to .386 the last two years, he may now be a "16-game player" but I wouldn't count on it. As to Snyder, the Utah organization in one word: stability. I expect, though, that they might try to bring in a new D coordinator/specialist. But like I said, the Clippers lead the NBA in 3P%, and sometimes things like Mann's game happen. Snyder could have done better, and given Utah's organizational history, it is a rough one for the fans. I do not expect big changes on that team.

Playoffs: So Leonard and Paul will presumably both miss parts of the WCF, Leonard will likely be gimpy even if he plays, and Embiid, although he is doing a good job, is gimpy. Seems like it could be Milwaukee's moment if they win G7 against Brooklyn.
   1571. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: June 19, 2021 at 06:03 PM (#6025186)
(though at some point they'll have too many picks for their roster/development spots, but there are worse problems to have)


That point probably came a dozen picks ago, but we'll see what they do.
   1572. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 19, 2021 at 06:04 PM (#6025188)
John Hollinger
@johnhollinger
·
6m
Think this was a pretty accurate summation.
Quote Tweet
Eric Walden
@tribjazz
· 2h
Rudy, on the defense: "The problem is if I don't come and help, we give up layups. … The gameplan was for us to let Terance Mann shoot rather than letting Reggie Jackson or PG get layups. We tried to adjust with full rotations. They played perfectly on almost every possession."
   1573. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 19, 2021 at 06:10 PM (#6025190)
1570 should say either/or
   1574. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 19, 2021 at 08:47 PM (#6025204)
Marc Stein
@TheSteinLine
·
13m
The Suns make it official and say Chris Paul, who remains in the league's health and safety protocols, is out for Sunday's Game 1 of the Western Conference finals against the Clippers.
Kamenetzky Brothers Retweeted
Mirjam Swanson
@MirjamSwanson
·
46m
It's official: No Kawhi for Game 1, per team.
   1575. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 19, 2021 at 09:01 PM (#6025206)
Tommy Beer @TommyBeer
man... you know Adam Silver does NOT want Giannis on the line late in the fourth quarter with the game on the line and the crowd counting up to 13 for everybody to hear
Steve Popper @StevePopper
I don't think the NBA charts this in the boxscore, but the there have been a half dozen terrible calls already.

   1576. JJ1986 Posted: June 19, 2021 at 09:03 PM (#6025207)
Why do they keep putting Holiday on Durant by himself?
   1577. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 09:06 PM (#6025208)
I don't think the NBA charts this in the boxscore, but the there have been a half dozen terrible calls already.

None of the 3 shooting fouls Harden drew were fouls, Tucker's 2nd on Durant wasn't a foul, the tech on Brown shouldn't have been a tech, and that foul from Brown on Giannis should have been a shooting foul. By my count so far...

Oh, and Lopez didn't kick that ball on that one pass.
   1578. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 19, 2021 at 09:21 PM (#6025211)
Brian Lewis @NYPost_Lewis
Harden and his hurt hamstring just won a jump ball from Giannis. These are the end times. #Nets #Bucks
Alex Schiffer @Alex__Schiffer
Jeff Green is in the game with 8:19 left in the second.

   1579. yo la tengo (the poor man's Ron Darling) Posted: June 19, 2021 at 09:21 PM (#6025212)
It is absolutely maddening to watch the refs give Harden those nonsense calls over and over again.
   1580. yo la tengo (the poor man's Ron Darling) Posted: June 19, 2021 at 09:23 PM (#6025213)
Also, is it possible that the Nets might actually be okay at defense, or Is it simply massive incompetence on the part of the Bucks?
   1581. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 09:34 PM (#6025215)
I've been shocked and surprised at the Nets defense this series. Some is MIL, but a shocking amount is BKN. I can't explain it.

....

Jrue and Middleton both are 2 for 11. That's awful. I was worried that early made 3 by Giannis was a bad omen for his shot selection.
   1582. asinwreck Posted: June 19, 2021 at 09:38 PM (#6025218)
The Nets have some good defenders, including Brown and Green. Durant has been more active on defense since the postseason started.

Durant and Harden have played the entire first half. If this is the last game at Barclays Center this season, ticketholders are getting plenty from two of the three stars in the final two home games.
   1583. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 09:43 PM (#6025219)
Goldsberry:
Giannis Average Shot Distance This Series

Game 1: 10.1 Feet
Game 2: 11.2
Game 3: 12.2
Game 4: 8.9
Game 5: 9.2
Game 6: 5.6
Game 7: 13.4 (1st Half)
   1584. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 10:05 PM (#6025221)
Oh that's awful (this can apply to like 5 different things).
   1585. tshipman Posted: June 19, 2021 at 10:23 PM (#6025222)
I think it's like 90% the Bucks. The Nets were awful on defense against the Celtics.

Edit: for goodness sakes, Harden is playing the entire game on a bad hamstring and the Bucks can't really punish them.
   1586. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 10:43 PM (#6025224)
Jrue Holiday is 2 for 17 so far tonight.

Among those who have taken 17 or more shots in a Game 7, only John Starks (2 for 18) and - unbelievably - Bob Cousy (2 for 20) were worse.
   1587. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 10:48 PM (#6025225)
This officiating has been bad.
   1588. spivey 2 Posted: June 19, 2021 at 10:49 PM (#6025226)
Officials have ###### the Bucks but so has Jrue
   1589. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 19, 2021 at 10:51 PM (#6025227)
John Hollinger @johnhollinger
Just realized Connaughton is the only bench player from either team to attempt a shot!
Bobby Marks @BobbyMarks42
These players are gassed right now. All 10 starters have already played 34+ minutes. 5:39 left
(that's not how tharris would have done it)
Kellan Olson @KellanOlson
We have arrived at the point in the game where Brook Lopez blocks Kevin Durant twice in a minute

   1590. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 10:53 PM (#6025228)
Durant doesn't even look like he's sweating. Everyone else is gassed.
   1591. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 10:55 PM (#6025229)
First Bucks FT from anyone but Giannis (and Middleton tech FT).
   1592. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 10:56 PM (#6025230)
This is some good #### though. Dang good game.
   1593. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:02 PM (#6025231)
This is some good #### though. Dang good game.
enjoy it now, because tomorrow's game 7 is going to be a blowout.
   1594. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:05 PM (#6025232)
Lopez didn't know the shot clock? Oof.
   1595. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:06 PM (#6025233)
That or he didn't think he could get off any kind of shot with his weight moving backwards like it was, but that was terrible either way. You have to do better than that.
   1596. spivey 2 Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:06 PM (#6025234)
Throwing the ball into the corner with 2 seconds is lol bad
   1597. PJ Martinez Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:06 PM (#6025235)
Well, this is dramatic.
   1598. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:07 PM (#6025236)
Ben Anderson @BensHoops
Stanford education not all it’s cracked up to be.
Rob Perez @WorldWideWob
THEY CALLED A TIMEOUT FOR THAT

   1599. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:07 PM (#6025237)
Wow, poor awareness by Lopez. WTF did they talk about on the sideline?
   1600. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:08 PM (#6025239)
Wow
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