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Friday, May 21, 2021

NBA 2021 Playoffs+ thread

I estimate there are maybe 10-12 Primates left on this site, and they all post in the NBA thread.

Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: May 21, 2021 at 01:07 PM | 3540 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: clutch, narratives, nba, off topic, redemption

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   1601. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:08 PM (#6025240)
Wow. Just wow.
   1602. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:08 PM (#6025241)
Holy shirt, KD
   1603. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:09 PM (#6025242)
calling it now:

brook lopez baseline fade away bank shot. the matt geiger special.
   1604. tshipman Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:09 PM (#6025243)
Has a coach ever been fired between regulation and OT?
   1605. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:09 PM (#6025244)
Gotta get something for Middleton here.
   1606. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:10 PM (#6025245)
wrong guy took that shot, bud.
   1607. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:10 PM (#6025246)
Has a coach ever been fired between regulation and OT?


Seriously. Hire Carlisle as a consultant, effective immediately.
   1608. asinwreck Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:10 PM (#6025247)
Free basketball.
   1609. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:11 PM (#6025248)
Good defense (also harden just 2 hand shoved Middleton out of bounds and out of the play)
   1610. PJ Martinez Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:13 PM (#6025249)
Kevin Durant's 48 points are now the most in a Game 7 in playoff history, per @ESPNStatsInfo.
   1611. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:13 PM (#6025250)
It would never work, but Giannis trying a pumpfake and drawing a foul there would be about as dramatic an ending to a series as there could be.
   1612. . . . . . . Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:14 PM (#6025251)
I’ll never get why Durant didn’t want to be a clear #1 during his peak. He’s a ####### killer.
   1613. asinwreck Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:16 PM (#6025252)
Bruce Brown is everywhere.
   1614. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:16 PM (#6025253)
If Harden were even at 50% the Nets would have won by 30.
   1615. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:18 PM (#6025254)
Bullshit
   1616. spivey 2 Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:18 PM (#6025255)
The refs are so garbage
   1617. . . . . . . Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:19 PM (#6025256)
It’s been a long time since I’ve seen pro guys so gassed. No one can shoot bc their legs are gone.
   1618. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:19 PM (#6025257)
Zero points so far in OT is about what I expect from Milwaukee.
   1619. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:23 PM (#6025258)
"crab dribble"
   1620. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:24 PM (#6025259)
Man, this is a rockfight of a game. Everyone is so gassed that every basket feels like a haymaker.
   1621. asinwreck Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:26 PM (#6025260)
Durant left it all on the court.
   1622. PJ Martinez Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:26 PM (#6025261)
Durant was just too tired on that last one. Minute 53. (Also, his foot was on the line again.)
   1623. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:26 PM (#6025262)
Well, no one had anything left this whole OT. Shame.
   1624. tshipman Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:27 PM (#6025263)
Durant finally hit empty here in the last minute of OT

Edit: coke to like three people
   1625. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:27 PM (#6025264)
Egad . Well, this series has certainly been interesting.
   1626. spivey 2 Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:28 PM (#6025265)
YESSSSS
   1627. PJ Martinez Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:29 PM (#6025266)
What a weird ending.

Anyway, congrats to the Bucks fans. Happy to see this team advance.
   1628. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:29 PM (#6025267)
Poor Marv.
   1629. Mike A Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:31 PM (#6025268)
(Also, his foot was on the line again.)
If Durant had my size feet, Nets would have won in regulation.

I don't think I could take the Hawks/76ers game being this close, so I'm almost hoping Stiggles is right about it being a blowout.
   1630. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:31 PM (#6025269)
So the WCF start tomorrow *afternoon* but the WCF not until Wednesday. That's weird. I mean, tv, I know, but still.
   1631. KronicFatigue Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:32 PM (#6025270)
Exactly who does harden need as a teammate to actually win?
   1632. PJ Martinez Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:32 PM (#6025271)
Steve Nash not taking timeout on rebound there may haunt him for awhile as well. Everyone was gassed. Transition opportunity was gone once Durant passed to Harden at half court. A set play (and a little rest) may have helped.
I usually like the no-timeout move, but this is a good point.
   1633. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:33 PM (#6025272)
Pelton:
Kevin Durant's 299 minutes in this series were the most by a player in a single series since ... Kevin Durant in 2014 against Memphis (324). Marc Gasol also played 299 minutes in that series, which featured four overtime games.
   1634. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:33 PM (#6025273)
1614. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:16 PM (#6025253)
If Harden were even at 50% the Nets would have won by 30.
1615. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:18 PM (#6025254)
Bullshit


Heh.

   1635. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:33 PM (#6025274)
Exactly who does harden need as a teammate to actually win?

Funny.
   1636. tshipman Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:35 PM (#6025275)
Blaming Harden for this is pretty unfair. He played the whole last two games while he had a hamstring issue that should have kept him out.
   1637. asinwreck Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:35 PM (#6025276)
Mike Budenholzer now has an excellent chance of getting a ring.
   1638. jmurph Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:35 PM (#6025277)
Jrue with some real highs and lows in that one, my god.
   1639. KronicFatigue Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:38 PM (#6025278)
I was being snarky, but harden getting worn out by the playoffs is not a new thing. I dislike his game, and his exit from Houston, so I’m blaming him for this loss
   1640. jmurph Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:38 PM (#6025279)
Exactly who does harden need as a teammate to actually win?

So I know this is a joke but Kyrie has ended 3 of the last 4 seasons injured and is also otherwise fairly regularly unavailable.

Lots of mitigating circumstances for this, but step back for a second: a 2nd round exit is a disaster for the Nets given what it took to put this team together.
   1641. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:40 PM (#6025280)
Middleton was 7/15 after the half, Jrue 3/12.
   1642. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:42 PM (#6025281)
Lots of mitigating circumstances for this, but step back for a second: a 2nd round exit is a disaster for the Nets given what it took to put this team together.

Harden getting hurt, and rehurt is out of the norm. But he's not that young anymore. Iow, the Nets really shouldn't overreact but can still improve their depth some and very well could be overall favorites next year. Unless something crazy happens this off-season, I'm probably picking them to win next year's title.
   1643. PJ Martinez Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:43 PM (#6025282)
So where is Rick Carlisle coaching next year?
   1644. jmurph Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:43 PM (#6025283)
I thought Jrue was awful, and then he hit two killer shots late in regulation and played some very good defense. I'm sure he'll take it!
   1645. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:44 PM (#6025284)
Mike Budenholzer always looks like he just bet an amount of money he can’t afford to lose on a casino game he doesn’t fully understand


Perfect description.
   1646. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:45 PM (#6025285)
So where is Rick Carlisle coaching next year?

How many coaches were fired after winning a title?

Bud isn't out of the woods yet.
   1647. tshipman Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:45 PM (#6025286)
A second round exit is a disaster. Honestly the Nets window might already be over. Blake is a FA. I think Bruce Brown is an RFA. Their three stars are all getting old and all have injury questions.

Edit: that is an excellent description of Beard Bud.
   1648. jmurph Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:45 PM (#6025287)
Harden getting hurt, and rehurt is out of the norm. But he's not that young anymore. Iow, the Nets really shouldn't overreact but can still improve their depth some and very well could be overall favorites next year. Unless something crazy happens this off-season, I'm probably picking them to win next year's title.

Oh yeah I'm not suggesting they should do anything, I'm just pretty sure a 2nd round exit wasn't the plan when signing Durant/Kyrie and trading all of the world's picks for Harden. You make those moves to put together a Heat/Cavs/Warriors style run of Finals appearances, not early exits.
   1649. jmurph Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:47 PM (#6025288)
Their three stars are all getting old and all have injury questions.

Kyrie's last several seasons have been such a soap opera that I feel like people really don't focus much on how he's constantly injured.
   1650. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:47 PM (#6025289)
Goldsberry again:
Khris Middleton In 4th and OT:

- 5-10 FG, 13 pts (most on the team over that time)

- Scored or assisted on 18 of their 33 pts

- Held Kevin Durant to 1-4 FG as the primary defender
   1651. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:50 PM (#6025291)
Tim Reynolds @ByTimReynolds
I am really starting to think that the 76ers/Hawks winner, or the Bucks, or the Suns, or the Clippers will win the NBA title.
Tony Jones @Tjonesonthenba
The best part of these NBA playoffs at this point: every single team remaining has to feel like “we will never have a better chance to win a title”
Adam Wexler @AdamJWexler
One of the following will win their first NBA title this season:
Chris Paul
Pat Beverley
P.J. Tucker
Clint Capela
Daryl Morey #Rockets
Chris Palmer @ChrisPalmerNBA
These are the best playoffs in years and it's only the second round.
Alex Schiffer @Alex__Schiffer
James Harden asked how he's feeling: "Like ####."
Ajayi Browne @ajayibrowne
Kevin Durant said he thought his shot to send the game into overtime was a three, but he said his “big *** foot” stepped on the line.
   1652. jmurph Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:51 PM (#6025292)
Bud isn't out of the woods yet.

Yeah this team is absolutely losing to the barely mobile Embiid in the conference finals. Bud is still packing his bags.
   1653. tshipman Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:56 PM (#6025293)
I believe the universe mostly makes sense, so I refuse to believe that Bud can win a championship with this coaching job.
   1654. Howie Menckel Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:58 PM (#6025294)
Stats By STATS
@StatsBySTATS
Tonight's Bucks-Nets game featured only 11 different players scoring, the fewest in any game since the [1976] merger (regular season or postseason).
11:31 PM · Jun 19, 2021

..............

Giannis 40
Middleton 23
Lopez 19
Holiday 13
Tucker 11
Connaughton 9

Durant 48
Harden 22
Griffin 17
Brown 14
Harris 11

only 5 other players appeared in this game - and in a combined 23 minutes, none of them had a FG or FT attempt.

I mean, if any old-timer yelled "Get off my lawn!" after this one - well, then there is no hope for them.

   1655. epoc Posted: June 19, 2021 at 11:59 PM (#6025295)
Now that Budenholzer is moving on and the Nets are going home, there should be at least some discussion about how poorly miscast Steve Nash is as an NBA head coach. Hoping that KD can single-handedly win you a playoff series by having him play hero-ball for 149 straight minutes is not a gameplan (even if KD is so good that it almost worked.)
   1656. jmurph Posted: June 20, 2021 at 12:01 AM (#6025296)
Now that Budenholzer is moving on and the Nets are going home, there should be at least some discussion about how poorly miscast Steve Nash is as an NBA head coach. Hoping that KD can single-handedly win you a playoff series by having him play hero-ball for 149 straight minutes is not a gameplan (even if KD is so good that it almost worked.)

Unprovable, but I feel pretty sure the Nets comfortably win this series if everyone on both teams is healthy. Like 4-1, 4-2.
   1657. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 20, 2021 at 12:04 AM (#6025298)
Middleton and Holiday gave Antetokounmpo just enough help on O at the end to get it done. I am still not sold on them, but give them credit for coming through late in a huge game. Like I said yesterday, that win might lead straight to a title.

Lots of mitigating circumstances for this, but step back for a second: a 2nd round exit is a disaster for the Nets given what it took to put this team together.


I think this is your Ainge defense/Boston Fandom showing a little, dude. Brooklyn has a star-studded core and will likely be in the title chase the next couple of years; that is all a fanbase can ask, really. Since top-tier guys usually do not change teams until they are 7-10 years in, if they do at all, the windows can be very short when you build a contender through free agency/force trades, but if your team is in a bling market and cannot draft a core guy, then that is the play and at least you get a window. Many teams never do. They took Milwaukee to seven and given how close G7 and G3 were, could have won as easily as not, even though the big three never played together in the whole series and Harden was not close to 100%. That said, as noted by others, it is not as if Harden and Irving are durable guys who suffered freak injuries--this is part of who they are as players, and Durant and Harden are both over 30. It is a tough series loss; calling it a "disaster" is a reach. Utah's loss might better be described that way, but Mitchell is 24 and Gobert is 28 so they have time to make some more runs, regardless of what they decide about Gobert being part of that.
   1658. jmurph Posted: June 20, 2021 at 12:09 AM (#6025299)
I think this is your Ainge defense/Boston Fandom showing a little, dude.

I was cheering for the Nets, and I can't even imagine what this has to do with Danny Ainge.

Also I think they'll definitely be among the favorites again next year, as I already indicated above.
   1659. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 20, 2021 at 12:13 AM (#6025300)
Also, for the guy throwing shade at Harden: yes, he has had trouble in postseason, but the best team he was ever on, the 2018 Rockets, had to the play The Borg Warriors in G7 without Chris Paul, who hurt his hamstring in that series. That game was competitive (101-92) even though Houston was 7/44 from the arc (Harden himself was 2/13 in that game). So, while his playoff woes are real and I get that many can't stand his foul-hunting, he is an historically great offensive player and with a little better luck, he might have already won a ring.
   1660. spivey 2 Posted: June 20, 2021 at 12:26 AM (#6025301)
Nets are gonna be great next year. There’s a reason a lot of us predicted someone on Brooklyn to get hurt this round. They are an old somewhat injury prone core. Harden’s not but was just coming back off a hamstring so it isn’t outlandish. He’s also someone who wears down in series. I think Milwaukee could have made it a close series if everyone was healthy, but only if the three point shooting was even, which it absolutely wasn’t this series. And I think it would have been similar to this anyways, wearing them down a bit. Still though, I agree that Nets win the series. Just I’m thinking 4-2 or 4-3. Milwaukee had a few times to buckle in this series and game.
   1661. tshipman Posted: June 20, 2021 at 12:30 AM (#6025302)
I think it's incredibly fair to call this result a disaster for the Nets. They are quite likely to be worse next season and very, very likely to be worse in two seasons.
   1662. spivey 2 Posted: June 20, 2021 at 12:31 AM (#6025303)
I think Nash comfortably out coached Bud in this series. And I think for the injuries he dealt with, and the personalities, actually did really well as a first year head coach
   1663. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 20, 2021 at 12:32 AM (#6025304)
I was cheering for the Nets, and I can't even imagine what this has to do with Danny Ainge.


Fair enough on the first. But I would also say that the number of Boston fans who were rooting for Kyrie Irving's team to advance is likely about the same as the number of Lakers fans who will be backing the Clippers.

As to the second, Ainge as noted ad nauseum never really did go all-in--like Brooklyn has--and those two franchises are of course connected: Tatum and Brown are both on the Celtics as a direct result of the 2013 deal. Brooklyn under Sean Marks, never having a real chance to use their high lotto picks, had to leverage their market to go another direction. Ainge is gone and Stevens is in the FO; Boston, even with the ECF trip last spring, is not really a contender, and Brooklyn is. But Brooklyn has age and injury concerns, while Boston has two young guys at the center of the roster. So we will see.
   1664. tshipman Posted: June 20, 2021 at 12:36 AM (#6025305)
The only thing I fault Nash for is playing Durant and Harden the entire game. You have to give those guys SOME rest. Durant had absolutely nothing left at the end of the OT.
   1665. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 20, 2021 at 12:42 AM (#6025306)
I think it's incredibly fair to call this result a disaster for the Nets.


I think you are underrating the value of having high-end stars. Durant and Harden are getting up there in age, but they are not 37 and 35 like Garnett and Pierce were back in 2013, or like James is now. Also, having three guys with that level of offensive skill allows them to divide up the load and rest up for postseason so you can go all-in with them in the money games, as Nash did tonight, and it almost worked.

And yeah, I am not at all behind bagging on Nash for having Durant go 53. I think you can argue for giving him a real short breather, and I am sure with Harden healthier and Irving there, Nash would have. But they waited a whole year for Durant, rested him quite a bit, and this was a G7 against a really tough opponent with Harden gimpy and Irving out. I think Durant is going 48-52 for most coaches in this situation.
   1666. spivey 2 Posted: June 20, 2021 at 12:47 AM (#6025309)
Durant scored 48 and was apeshit in Game 5 with no rest. Getting bullshit from the refs was legit their only offense that wasn’t going through Durant, it felt like. Edit: point being, I wouldn’t be against giving Shamet like 8 more minutes, but can understand why he did what he did. Durant hit a fadeaway 22 footer as time expired, so he clearly still had the legs for that.
   1667. tshipman Posted: June 20, 2021 at 12:56 AM (#6025310)
To be clear, I am talking like two to four minutes over the course of the game.
   1668. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 20, 2021 at 01:18 AM (#6025313)
To be clear, I am talking like two to four minutes over the course of the game.


Sure, and 4 min for each of them would mean eight more minutes of Landry Shamet. Trying to get Durant out for say the last 90 second of the 3rd Q to give him 3-4 minutes off before the 4th Q seems like it might have been a good idea. No way to know, though.
   1669. PJ Martinez Posted: June 20, 2021 at 01:26 AM (#6025314)
The only disappointing thing, for me, about the Nets losing is not having Durant in the playoffs anymore. He's been the best and most exciting player to this point. (Edit: this seems totally obvious, I suppose, but it was not at all a given not that long ago!)
   1670. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: June 20, 2021 at 01:54 AM (#6025315)
the Bucks won the series in spite of Bud, which was always the best-case scenario. I still have visions of Rick Carlisle dancing in my head and hope that the front office will acknowledge how fortunate they were to win this series, however far they get.
   1671. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: June 20, 2021 at 05:15 AM (#6025316)

As to the second, Ainge as noted ad nauseum never really did go all-in--like Brooklyn has--and those two franchises are of course connected: Tatum and Brown are both on the Celtics as a direct result of the 2013 deal. Brooklyn under Sean Marks, never having a real chance to use their high lotto picks, had to leverage their market to go another direction. Ainge is gone and Stevens is in the FO; Boston, even with the ECF trip last spring, is not really a contender, and Brooklyn is. But Brooklyn has age and injury concerns, while Boston has two young guys at the center of the roster. So we will see.


It's seems the current consensus is that there are two, and only two, ways to win an NBA title:

A) A Process-like tank job

B) If your team isn't _that_ bad_ strip it down and package every asset and draft pick for the next 10 years to try to sign/trade for enough top FA to build a super team.

Moreover, any GM that isn't currently trying A) or B) gets dumped on as foolish and/or dooming their team to eternal mediocrity at best. This tends to ignore that if A) or B) _don't_ work, your team is fated to years of hopelessness, either on the front end or the back end of your strategy.

I tend to feel that there are other ways to build good teams, or should be, so I will usually root against teams trying one of the above approaches.
   1672. JJ1986 Posted: June 20, 2021 at 08:09 AM (#6025317)
What specifically are Celtics fans (or national analysts who are much closer to the Raptors now) allowed to comment on without declaring their biases?
   1673. . . . . . . Posted: June 20, 2021 at 08:29 AM (#6025318)
The Harden-critique is really weird. He played a very productive game despite being unable to make sudden movements, which is remarkably hard to do at any level let alone playoff NBA. It was all crafty Harden #### but without any of his deceptive sneaky athleticism. I thought it was a pretty amazing show of skill. Even as someone who hates Harden, I love a junk baller getting guys out with nothing but spin and guile.
   1674. SteveF Posted: June 20, 2021 at 08:32 AM (#6025319)
What specifically are Celtics fans (or national analysts who are much closer to the Raptors now) allowed to comment on without declaring their biases?

You should ask a Lakers fan, I imagine. Lakers fans are my go to source for unbiased thoughts on Celtics fan bias.

Bias police.
Arrest this man.
He talks in maths.
He buzzes like a fridge.
He's like a detuned radio.
   1675. PJ Martinez Posted: June 20, 2021 at 09:06 AM (#6025323)
   1676. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 20, 2021 at 09:07 AM (#6025324)
I can't read 1673 or 1674 right now, since I have this periodic (and annoying) thing where the the last page sometimes does not load, but I can respond to the snark in 1672.

I am a pretty big jmurph supporter, and if he says that he was rooting for Brooklyn and that his characterization of Brooklyn's loss as a "disaster" is unrelated to the recent arcs of the two franchises, then I believe him. But given the context, including the little shitstorm that involved ex-Celtic Glen Davis having to delete a Tweet gloating about Irving's injury, I would say, as noted, that most Boston fans are glad that Brooklyn is out, just like most Lakers fans want somebody to beat the Clippers.

That aside, I think dropping a tough series in seven to a strong opponent with one of your top three guys out and another banged up is just "life in the NBA." Disastrous playoff losses IMO involve:

Blowing a big series lead or losing a series to a team you should beat (Golden State, 2016 Finals).
Losing to a team that is clearly worse than you are but has your number (Dallas, 2007 first round).
Losing in a way that causes key guys to want out (Cleveland, conference semis 2010).
Losing in what is pretty clearly your last shot at a ring if your core guys do not have one.
Losing to a rival and not getting another shot at them.

Also, redemption sometimes comes after those kinds of losses, as all of those examples show.

Brooklyn may fade away due to age and injury concerns, but I personally think that they are far from done. Also, tough playoff losses can in certain circumstances bring teams and fanbases closer together. I would say that Brooklyn fans will be among the most excited in the game heading into next year. The real disaster for Brooklyn was Mikhail Prokhorov and Billy King, but they are well past that now.

As to the reference to Lowe, which I am assuming that "national analyst" stuff is, I recall the intense reactions to what I said about him, even though I made a point of saying that he is a good writer, etc. That was like two or three years ago, and I don't read much NBA media these days, so I don't know what he is writing about now (I do recall people talking about him being tight with Ujiri so I assume it involves the Raptors). But "national analysts" just like guys on this thread, do in fact have their biases. I am pretty biased against national analysts who are also Boston Celtics fans (This is probably because CBS used two Boston guys, Dick Stockton and Tom Heinsohn, as their national announcing team for the Finals in the 1980s when I was a kid. Like most old Lakers fans who lived through those days, I muted them and put on Chick Hearn). But I give Lowe credit for his smarts and writing skills and Bill Simmons for TBOB and his passion for the game.
   1677. PJ Martinez Posted: June 20, 2021 at 09:09 AM (#6025325)
Of the 25 remaining starters left in the playoffs, Kawhi Leonard and Danny Green are the only ones with rings and they're both injured.
   1678. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 20, 2021 at 09:17 AM (#6025326)
Can see 1674 now.
   1679. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 20, 2021 at 09:29 AM (#6025327)
A) A Process-like tank job

B) If your team isn't _that_ bad_ strip it down and package every asset and draft pick for the next 10 years to try to sign/trade for enough top FA to build a super team.


I know that Simmons and some of The Ringer types were making some of that kind of noise for awhile and maybe they still are and that there was some pushback here. The history of the NBA is pretty clear in that most teams who win have a Top-5-10 guy and a Top 20ish guy with him, so I think it is key to do whatever you have to do to get guys like that when you can. Daryl Morey did a nice job of keeping the foot on the pedal in Houston instead of going into hiding because Golden State was so awesome, and I and others here gave him ups for that even though they did not get over the top and it did not end well.

But you can build a contender by being very good/good at every position with no Top 5 players, and sometimes teams like that win. Not that often, but they do. It seems like teams like that need to be awesome on D to get it done.

The other issue is the "title or bust" mentality. Lakers fans ofc are seeped in that kind of thinking, but I think it is pretty clear that there is value in having really good teams with really good players who are there a long time and the fans love even if they don't win a title. The best recent example is the Gasol/Conley teams in Memphis. Those teams never made the Finals, but I doubt that you would find many Memphis fans or people on or connected to those teams seeing them as a waste of years/time.
   1680. yo la tengo (the poor man's Ron Darling) Posted: June 20, 2021 at 10:22 AM (#6025329)
Thinking about the recent coaching news. How many current coaches have a title? Kerr, Lue, Spoelstra, Popovich, and Nurse. Is that it? Are there only five current coaches in a 30 team league that have a title. Is this historically unusual?
   1681. SteveF Posted: June 20, 2021 at 10:39 AM (#6025331)
Frank Vogel has one, allegedly. And Doc Rivers hasn't been fired yet.
   1682. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: June 20, 2021 at 10:48 AM (#6025332)
I imagine that’s pretty typical, given that many teams/coaches win more than one.

In 2011, the number was six. In 2001, it was four.in 1991, it was only two, with Phil becoming the third.

EDIT, in 1991 it was three, Daly, KC Jones and Lenny Wilkens.
   1683. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: June 20, 2021 at 11:09 AM (#6025333)
But you can build a contender by being very good/good at every position with no Top 5 players, and sometimes teams like that win. Not that often, but they do. It seems like teams like that need to be awesome on D to get it done.

This was the Toronto model, and it worked really well. The team was excellent, and then when the opportunity to get a top 5 player came along, they were very well positioned to make the move.
   1684. Paul D(uda) Posted: June 20, 2021 at 12:13 PM (#6025334)
Why do Lakers fans care about the Clippers at all?
   1685. Fancy Pants Handle struck out swinging Posted: June 20, 2021 at 12:25 PM (#6025335)
I mean, I know Rick Carlisle technically does not have a job right this second. But he is being heavily linked to several teams already, and is a virtual certainty to have a job at the start of next season. Like if Kawhi opts out, nobody is going to exclude him from lists of 'current NBA players' until he signs a new deal. Not sure why we should do so with coaches.
   1686. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 20, 2021 at 12:44 PM (#6025338)
Derek Bodner @DerekBodnerNBA
Ben Simmons has missed more free-throws in these last two rounds than Steve Nash did in his entire playoff career. That's wild.
Kyle Neubeck @KyleNeubeck
Joel Embiid has been fined $35,000 for "escalating" the scuffle with John Collins on Friday night and not cooperating with the postgame NBA security interview afterward, league says

   1687. yo la tengo (the poor man's Ron Darling) Posted: June 20, 2021 at 01:21 PM (#6025344)
Embarrassed that I forgot Vogel. Doc's title seems SO long ago now and I mostly think of him as a Clippers coach.
   1688. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: June 20, 2021 at 01:27 PM (#6025346)
Coach Bud sat in front of my wife and I when we saw "Fast 8" at Phipps a few years ago.
   1689. Mike A Posted: June 20, 2021 at 01:28 PM (#6025347)
Not to mention Bruno Fernando has been suspended for game 7 for coming off the bench during said Collins/Embiid scuffle.

I'm not saying this is equivalent to Draymond's suspension in 2016, but let's face it - it's pretty close.

The last time the Hawks had a game 7 this big, Doc Rivers was the point guard. He dished out 18 assists while 'Nique scored 47 but it still wasn't enough to beat that *(*$#^&@ Larry Bird and the Celtics, losing 118-116. Great, great game.
   1690. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 20, 2021 at 03:03 PM (#6025352)
Duane Rankin @DuaneRankin
Monty Williams talking about coaching opportunities for African-Americans in #NBA as three of the final four teams left in the playoffs will have a Black head coach. #Suns lead assistant Willie Green is talking with teams. pic.twitter.com/PS7l7mak3J
Mirjam Swanson @MirjamSwanson
Ty Lue: "Three out of four coaches left standing are Black coaches, that says a lot. Hopefully we can ... build the way for other Black coaches."

Mirjam Swanson @MirjamSwanson
Monty: "We feel good about the week of practice and preparation we've had." Suns' last game: June 13.

Ty: "Playing a 12:30 game...kind of crazy. We can't run guys into the ground. PG played 46 mins (Friday night). Reggie played the whole second half. Nic Batum played 41 mins."
Andrew Greif @AndrewGreif
Phoenix did a really nice job with its arena remodel. Overheard one fan describing the layout to a friend by saying, "there's a bar here, there's a bar there, and there are a bunch of bars around there."
   1691. PJ Martinez Posted: June 20, 2021 at 03:22 PM (#6025353)
Where does the series KD just played rank among the best ever? For some context, when I looked at the 2010s, I ranked LeBron 2016 vs GSW 1st, Kawhi 2019 vs PHI 2nd, and Kobe 2010 vs Suns 3rd. I think KD's would slot in at #2 among those.
   1692. asinwreck Posted: June 20, 2021 at 03:39 PM (#6025355)
@MarcJSpears
Suns announce general manager James Jones as NBA executive of the Year pre-game.
   1693. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 20, 2021 at 03:40 PM (#6025356)
It's amazing how KD's normal-for-KD performance and heavy minutes have also seemingly eclipsed the fact that he is also coming back from his Achilles tear. Is this already the best post-Achilles tear performance?
   1694. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: June 20, 2021 at 04:12 PM (#6025362)
Show of hands for everyone that knew Boogie Cousins was still active on a playoff roster.
   1695. Moeball Posted: June 20, 2021 at 04:13 PM (#6025363)
1676: I also listened to Chick on the radio instead of the National broadcast BITD. Not necessarily because of Laker fandom, but because Chick was light years beyond any other NBA announcers (yes that includes Marv Albert). I was lucky growing up in So Cal with Chick doing Lakers games, Vin Scully on the Dodgers, Bob Miller on Kings hockey and Dick Enberg on UCLA basketball and also the Angels games. I don't think a finer collective group of announcers exists so I admit I'm spoiled.

Also: No, real Lakers fans aren't concerned about the Clippers any more than real Yankees fans give a hoot about the Red Sox. These are not rivalries, they're wipeouts. In fact I wish the Clippers well in their quest to hoist championship trophy #1.
   1696. jmurph Posted: June 20, 2021 at 04:19 PM (#6025368)
Wow, after all those minutes KD is apparently also going to play in the Olympics. Very cool for fans and him, but man, feels like the guy deserves a break.
   1697. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 20, 2021 at 04:29 PM (#6025369)
I get that 53 minutes is a lot of basketball, but:

1) You don't budget minutes for those extra five, and once OT is there obviously it makes sense to play all five (and you get a break before them, and two more timeouts).
2) Is there really that big a difference between 48 minutes and 44 in terms of fatigue? Like, it's not 48 of 48 minutes, a basketball game takes 135 minutes or so, plenty of timeouts, quarter breaks, halftime, other dead time. So it's the difference between playing 48 / 135 minutes or 44 / 135 minutes. I get that some of the non-clock time takes energy (standing instead of sitting during free throws, motion before the ball is inbounded), but it's not like it's actually 48 minutes straight.
   1698. asinwreck Posted: June 20, 2021 at 04:30 PM (#6025370)
It's amazing how KD's normal-for-KD performance and heavy minutes have also seemingly eclipsed the fact that he is also coming back from his Achilles tear. Is this already the best post-Achilles tear performance?

Looks like it to me. Remarkable that he was the only one of the Nets' Big Three not to break down in the postseason, and he seems to be right back to the level he was at before the tear.
   1699. jmurph Posted: June 20, 2021 at 04:31 PM (#6025371)
This half is absolutely flying by.
   1700. asinwreck Posted: June 20, 2021 at 05:43 PM (#6025376)
Good time for Booker to get his first career triple-double.
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