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Friday, May 21, 2021

NBA 2021 Playoffs+ thread

I estimate there are maybe 10-12 Primates left on this site, and they all post in the NBA thread.

Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: May 21, 2021 at 01:07 PM | 3862 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: clutch, narratives, nba, off topic, redemption

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   2001. aberg Posted: June 23, 2021 at 04:21 PM (#6025980)
So, where does Carlisle end up?


The Finals/CF could still go badly enough for him to wind up in Milwaukee. Don't know if New Orleans would consider him after another old school redass just alienated himself out of a job, but they're probably the next best team with an opening. Indy might still fancy itself a competitor.
   2002. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: June 23, 2021 at 04:23 PM (#6025981)
Stockton had one I think.


Oh did he ever. Won the WCF against the Rockets with a three at the buzzer to send them to their first ever finals. That and the Boone homer in 03 will probably never be topped as my best sports moments.
   2003. jmurph Posted: June 23, 2021 at 04:23 PM (#6025982)
Yeah I'm picking a return to Indiana for Carlisle.
   2004. aberg Posted: June 23, 2021 at 04:25 PM (#6025984)
Der K- did you save the expansion draft analysis in one doc somewhere? I'd love to do a Sonics draft, but I'm not going to have time until next week and don't want to lose all that work in the thread.
   2005. jmurph Posted: June 23, 2021 at 04:27 PM (#6025985)
I'm excited about the Udoka hire for the Celtics- really seems to be a well liked and respected guy with no baggage that I'm aware of (separating him from some of the other rumored options).
   2006. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 23, 2021 at 04:49 PM (#6025988)
John Karalis @RedsArmy_John
And if you're interested in this sort of thing, here's the story of Ime Udoka running roughshod over everyone in a basketball fight between the Nigerian and Algerian national teams hoopshype.com/2007/12/09/ime… pic.twitter.com/CateJofW6Q
Jay King @ByJayKing
Ime Udoka once won a sportsmanship award as a player. He has said he was shocked to receive it because of how often he got into it with players on the court. A fiery competitor, but also places a high value on relationships.
Keith Smith @KeithSmithNBA
Talking to some NBA coaches and here's what the say Ime Udoka's strengths are: -"He's a connector. He'll build relationships, real ones, with everyone in the building very quickly." -"Defense. He played in the league because of his defense. That's his calling card as a coach."
Jeff Goodman @GoodmanHoops
Ime Udoka’s experience coaching Jayson Tatum, Jaylen Brown and Marcus Smart a couple years ago in Team USA was significant in his hiring. “Those guys all liked him and respected him,” one source told me. “He’s an easy guy to connect with.”
Casey Holdahl @CHold
Who knows how things end up in Boston, but between playing in the NBA, the brawl vs. Algeria, moving up the ranks from assistant to now head coach AND being engaged to Nia Long, Ime Udoka already has to be one of the most successful Portlanders in history

   2007. Mike A Posted: June 23, 2021 at 05:02 PM (#6025991)
Jerami Grant? Is Team USA just pulling names out of a hat now?

Be nice if they added some exciting young player like a Zion, Trae, Ja, whoever. But hey, who doesn't want to watch Kevin Love?
   2008. Shohei Brotani (formerly LA Hombre) Posted: June 23, 2021 at 05:12 PM (#6025992)
Jay Williams
@RealJayWIlliams

The first head coach of color for the @celtics ... ... & even more importantly... he is one talented individual who paid his dues.
Since deleted.
   2009. asinwreck Posted: June 23, 2021 at 05:17 PM (#6025993)
Jay Williams really forgot that Bill Russell, KC Jones, and Doc Rivers won championships in Boston as coach?

Remarkable. Remarkable.
   2010. Mike A Posted: June 23, 2021 at 05:22 PM (#6025995)
Jay Williams really forgot that Bill Russell, KC Jones, and Doc Rivers won championships in Boston as coach?
I feel better now for forgetting Deandre Ayton was from the Bahamas and not eligible for Team USA.
   2011. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: June 23, 2021 at 05:43 PM (#6025998)
Is it odd that my immediate reaction was "what about ML Carr?"
   2012. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 23, 2021 at 06:03 PM (#6026001)
Jerami Grant? Is Team USA just pulling names out of a hat now?

Be nice if they added some exciting young player like a Zion, Trae, Ja, whoever. But hey, who doesn't want to watch Kevin Love?


A lot of those guys had to have turned them down. Well, maybe not all, but I'm sure they had to have asked Zion. I'm less sure Love was way down the list, but I'm hoping he was. Also, I think there's some definite value to it not just being an All-Star team and having some role player types there to do specific things. Again, not sure what those would be for Love, but I can see how Grant fits.
   2013. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: June 23, 2021 at 06:18 PM (#6026004)
Der K- did you save the expansion draft analysis in one doc somewhere? I'd love to do a Sonics draft, but I'm not going to have time until next week and don't want to lose all that work in the thread.

no (i was just making snap judgments while some of my work was slowly processing), but i'd be glad to. i'll likely post it this weekend.
i'll try to put it in one place, maybe clean it up a bit, and - if i feel ambitious - add things like controlled player rights. traditionally, a handful of picks are those guys as (iirc) every team must lose a player and if all of the options are bad, you might want to select a guy like gunther behnke.

i think we'd want a second person to draft as well + ideally, people could come up with assets to attach to players (or situations) pursuant to the draft. like, the wolves got a 2nd rounder to pick mark davis from milwaukee instead of a better player, the magic got a 2nd rounder for picking rodney dent and miami - god bless them, this was smart - they got a first rounder from dallas and three other 2nd rounder in exchange for picking or not picking various guys.
   2014. JJ1986 Posted: June 23, 2021 at 06:57 PM (#6026007)
add things like controlled player rights.
Apparently Fran Vazquez retired, but Petteri Koponen is still available.
   2015. JJ1986 Posted: June 23, 2021 at 06:59 PM (#6026010)
I had no idea whom you had listed for the Rockets as Thomas (it's Khyri), so I looked up their roster and they had 30 players suit up for them this season. I'm not sure I could have named 10 of them.
   2016. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 23, 2021 at 07:11 PM (#6026011)
Hollinger:

Eastern Conference finals preview: Bucks can’t blow this opportunity

It’s amazing how small the margins can be between success and perceived failure in the NBA.

If Kevin Durant had normal-sized feet, the Milwaukee Bucks would be looking at wholesale changes right now, with a new coaching change almost assuredly part of it. Instead, because Durant’s size-18 flipper clipped the 3-point line in Saturday’s epic Game 7, the Bucks have an open highway of opportunity ahead of them.
   2017. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 23, 2021 at 07:19 PM (#6026012)
Apparently Fran Vazquez retired, but Petteri Koponen is still available.
whither nikola milutinov...
   2018. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 23, 2021 at 07:25 PM (#6026013)
Is it odd that my immediate reaction was "what about ML Carr?"


ML was pretty memorable. Rivers has been around so long and has had enough different jobs that it is not totally weird that someone in the social media era would forget that he coached Boston. Williams blew this very badly, but: I expect that a lot of folks who consider themselves pretty serious NBA fans don't know that Russell coached Boston or that he was the first black NBA coach, as well as being the first black HC/manager in any of the US big three sports. As to Jones, he was not really a quotable guy, and was not a self-promoter like his counterpart, Pat Riley. DK's observation that NBA history does not have the weight of MLB history is true I think; I have read a few books on NBA history over the last ten years to try to catch up a bit. The NBA needs an equivalent book to the Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract. Hiring a black coach after the recent Ainge thing is probably a good idea, and Udoka is clearly qualified.
   2019. spivey 2 Posted: June 23, 2021 at 08:16 PM (#6026017)
As we head into the ECF, I would like to say that win or lose we better not lose sight of the fact Bud should be fired.
   2020. tshipman Posted: June 23, 2021 at 08:26 PM (#6026019)
I get that Udoka has been in the coach apparent position, and all of that, but you're really hiring the guy who was.in charge of the Nets defense as his last job?
   2021. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: June 23, 2021 at 08:42 PM (#6026021)
Cranky old man complaint, but that sometimes 8:30 NBA games start at 8:30 and sometimes they start at 8:54 drives me nuts.
   2022. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 23, 2021 at 08:45 PM (#6026022)
Cranky old man complaint, but that sometimes 8:30 NBA games start at 8:30 and sometimes they start at 8:54 drives me nuts.
isn't TNT usually pretty sharp about their start times?
   2023. spivey 2 Posted: June 23, 2021 at 09:40 PM (#6026026)
Jeff Teague... are you ####### kidding me? We learned nothing?
   2024. Shohei Brotani (formerly LA Hombre) Posted: June 23, 2021 at 09:55 PM (#6026030)
I've really underestimated Trae's game. He's incredibly aggressive, but he always seems to have a plan.
   2025. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 23, 2021 at 10:12 PM (#6026037)
Trae is playing at another level now. Wow.
   2026. Shohei Brotani (formerly LA Hombre) Posted: June 23, 2021 at 10:35 PM (#6026039)
Oh, come on. Everything Young throws up hits nothing but net.
   2027. mike f Posted: June 23, 2021 at 10:46 PM (#6026041)
Smh the hawks are going to the finals, aren’t they.
   2028. Shohei Brotani (formerly LA Hombre) Posted: June 23, 2021 at 10:50 PM (#6026042)
No Playoff P-itis. Trae hits'em both.
   2029. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: June 23, 2021 at 10:56 PM (#6026044)
They aren’t going to the finals, but please let me be wrong
(Not unless Bogdan gets healthy - young ain’t doing that every game)
   2030. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 23, 2021 at 10:57 PM (#6026045)
Piss poor execution by the Bucks down the stetch, and not really sure about either of those last 2 ATO plays they ran.

I'm not sure PJ Tucker has a lot of value this series. Not surprisingly, ATLs rotations were tighter and made a lot more sense. Middleton was pretty bad again, 0 for 9 on 3s yet someone first and only option on last play.

But really, that was just a superb game for Trae. Hawks are also doing a great job hiding him on defense.
   2031. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 23, 2021 at 10:59 PM (#6026047)
They aren’t going to the finals, but please let me be wrong

Now that they're up a game, I don't think they're really underdogs in the series any more (meaning worst case, it's close to 50/50 now; I don't trust MIL). I think McMillan is gonna make Bud look really bad this series, even if they lost.
   2032. jmurph Posted: June 23, 2021 at 10:59 PM (#6026048)
Man they’ve just been so impressive, getting contributions everywhere. Friggin Huerter had a few nice defensive plays. And Young is just ridiculous.
   2033. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 23, 2021 at 11:05 PM (#6026049)
Young, Collins, Huerter, Ayton, and Booker are all better than I thought they were. I am also sticking with my "Nate McMillan is a better coach than he generally gets credit for being" narrative (not talking about people here).
   2034. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: June 23, 2021 at 11:08 PM (#6026050)
Several Hawks with iffy defensive reps are okay to fine by my accounting, including Huerter (he’s ok) and Collins.
But we have no healthy decent threes - Middleton should crush us. Jrue should continue to play well. Giannis is Giannis.

Still an uphill battle, imo.
—-
Anyone remember when Capela started his career as a bench five who missed his first 15 career free throws? He’s come a long way…
—-
I love how the TNT guys occasionally mention Bob Pettit as one of the only hawks whoever did some specific good thing and then one of the ex-pros says something complementary about Pettit and I imagine that most people at home have no idea who that player was.

   2035. jmurph Posted: June 23, 2021 at 11:13 PM (#6026052)
What did Morey get for Capela again?
   2036. Shohei Brotani (formerly LA Hombre) Posted: June 23, 2021 at 11:15 PM (#6026053)
Synergy Basketball
@SynergySST

Trae Young created, assisted, or scored 80 of the 108 points Atlanta scored while he was on the floor during Game 1.
   2037. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: June 23, 2021 at 11:18 PM (#6026054)
4 way deal. Think it was Capela and a first for Covington and a 2nd (plus spare parts, like Nene and jordan bell, changing teams)
   2038. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 23, 2021 at 11:19 PM (#6026055)
Adjusted for season length, the two teams leading the conference finals combined for 63 wins last year.

Last year's finalists also both had losing records the previous year.

This just feels so weird coming off of an extended run of dynasties (Warriors-Cavs, Heatles, Lakers, Spurs). I love it, personally.
   2039. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: June 23, 2021 at 11:31 PM (#6026057)
Beyond my rooting bias, it’s great.
—-
This is recency bias, but Lou looks kinda washed.
   2040. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: June 24, 2021 at 12:07 AM (#6026060)
@NoTechBen I feel fine about the Bucks in this series but absolutely horrible about the reality of Bud continuing to coach this team

This echoes my feelings exactly. I couldn't watch the second half tonight but it seems like the Bucks did what the Bucks do. I still think they'll win this series, probably easily, but they are forever narrowing their margin of error due to stubbornness and stupidity.
   2041. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 24, 2021 at 12:50 AM (#6026065)
This just feels so weird coming off of an extended run of dynasties (Warriors-Cavs, Heatles, Lakers, Spurs). I love it, personally.


Yeah, I can see why many people feel that way. Looking at the last decade:

2010: Lakers/Celtics, rematch of 2008, Phil Jackson coaching in his 13th Finals. "New faces" were Rasheed Wallace and Ron Artest.
2011: Rematch of 2006; Heatles were absurdly famous, infamous, and overexposed and Nowitzki had been around forever. Plus Cuban and Riley were involved.
2012-13: Miami wins, beating San Antonio once. OKC was new.
2014: San Antonio wins--Duncan, Popovich.
2015-2018: New teams, but they met four straight times and LeBron was there, again.
2019: New team, but they had Kawhi Leonard. And Golden State was in it again.
2020: Lakers team with LeBron James

Since 2010, James has won four times, Curry three times, Durant and Leonard twice each.

So, yeah, this is all new in terms of the franchises and the guys playing, coaching, GMing, and owning. One thing I remembered today--I think it is going to be Milwaukee/Phoenix and there is a connection between those two franchises: Milwaukee won the 1969 coin flip for Lew Alcindor--no lottery back then. Phoenix picked second and took Neal Walk.
   2042. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 24, 2021 at 01:04 AM (#6026068)
The Athletic
@TheAthletic
The most points scored in a postseason game in NBA history before turning 23 years old:

Kobe Bryant: 48 points on 05/13/2001
LeBron James: 48 points on 05/31/2007
Trae Young: 48 points on 06/23/2021
   2043. Rally Posted: June 24, 2021 at 08:28 AM (#6026079)
The NBA needs an equivalent book to the Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract.


Until someone does it, Bill Simmons’ book fills that slot on my shelf.
   2044. spivey 2 Posted: June 24, 2021 at 09:11 AM (#6026085)
I didn't watch the game, partially because watching Milwaukee is really painful and not something I can subject myself to 3 days a week.

Middleton needs to play better, and the team as a whole needs to shoot better. Pelton mentioned on a recent Lowe podcast that they have the 3rd lowest shot making in the playoffs this year, behind 2 teams that got bounced in the first round. I believe that's Second Spectrum data that looks at the player and how open they are to project what they should have shot vs. what they actually did shoot. Milwaukee (probably?) can't win the title shooting 30% from 3 every round. They have to start making shots, or they'll lose. If not to Atlanta, to Phoenix.

But I mean, Bud really does have no idea what he's doing. Jeff Teague is one of the worst players in the NBA (and was never good, FYI). He shouldn't be on the team, let alone playing in the playoffs.
   2045. mike f Posted: June 24, 2021 at 09:20 AM (#6026087)
Middleton won’t go 0-9 on threes again, which will help. But the Bucks desperately need a wing better than Connaughton.

I don’t even think Bud is doing a terrible job, he just has no roster depth (no clue how much the roster construction is his fault, or how much of a difference Donte would make).
   2046. jmurph Posted: June 24, 2021 at 09:52 AM (#6026095)
I can't find it now, but saw someone make the point on twitter earlier that the Hawks, and Trae Young specifically, have benefited from facing three of the least creative, least flexible coaches in the entire conference during this playoff run. I think it's a fair point, though I definitely don't want to diminish their accomplishments to date- they've been great and a lot of fun to watch.
   2047. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: June 24, 2021 at 10:06 AM (#6026097)
It’s not that Nate (good coach) is (or isn’t) super creative either, but since Atlanta’s injuries are so clustered positionally, they wouldn’t have good counters if they did face someone who was more flexible.
It’s a very good point they made, imo.

Having said that - these were also solid defenses. Credit to the Hawks here.

Middleton is key, I think. This is a matchup he should crush.

I think Pat C is bad and also should play more over Tucker and Lopez.

I am not a fan of him at all but … if and once Milwaukee makes adjustments, maybe ATL should see what happens if they dust off Snell?
Snell, for those who didn’t notice, put up wild regular season shooting numbers. 57%(!) from three and I think that he literally hasn’t missed a free throw since 2019. He doesn’t “do” things (usage was 8.6 this year, doesn’t rebound or create or generate turnovers), just stays in front of his man and avoids mistakes. Wet trash to start the playoffs though - 1-12 shooting in 54 minutes with the rare negative PER.
   2048. spivey 2 Posted: June 24, 2021 at 10:46 AM (#6026105)
Milwaukee would be better with DiVincenzo. He's able to create his own shot a bit, handle backup PG duties, and is a solid 1v1 defender. All important things for Milwaukee, especially in the playoffs. Hard to complain about it too much, imo, since I don't know that he's a bigger miss than Hunter, and in the context of injuries across the playoff teams, Milwaukee has been one of the least affected. Teague wouldn't be playing if Divincenzo was healthy, but I still think all of those minutes absolutely should be staggered such that 2 of Giannis/Holiday/Middleton are always on the court, and you just have the other 2 share PG duties while Holiday is resting.

Connaughton I think is solid, but is just a guy. Rebounds well, average-ish defender and shooter. Can't create his own shot or shots for others. Guys like this are going to look as good or bad as their shot making. IMO he's not going to really lose you games, though between him and Tucker they don't give much offense, to be sure.

Milwaukee basically chose Tucker of Torrey Craig. Craig would be nice in this series, but that decision made sense at the time and it makes sense now.
   2049. asinwreck Posted: June 24, 2021 at 11:13 AM (#6026108)
jmurph Posted: June 23, 2021 at 04:23 PM (#6025982)
Yeah I'm picking a return to Indiana for Carlisle.

And it is so.
   2050. mike f Posted: June 24, 2021 at 11:17 AM (#6026109)
Wow. I’m surprised Carlisle didn’t wait to see if Mil was an option but I guess Indiana gave him 29 million reasons to not wait.
   2051. jmurph Posted: June 24, 2021 at 11:29 AM (#6026110)
Wow, that's a "even if we want to continue to run the team like idiots we definitely can't fire you" contract.
   2052. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 24, 2021 at 11:42 AM (#6026111)
Wow. I’m surprised Carlisle didn’t wait to see if Mil was an option but I guess Indiana gave him 29 million reasons to not wait.

Even though we all here think Bud will get fired if the Bucks lose to the Hawks, he might not and Carlisle might think so not either.
   2053. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 24, 2021 at 12:20 PM (#6026113)
an update on yesterday's biggest drama:
As it relates to the Boston Celtics tweet that came from my account a couple of hours ago… I did not post that & my passcode has now been changed.

— Jay Williams (@RealJayWilliams) June 23, 2021
   2054. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 24, 2021 at 12:49 PM (#6026115)
Honestly, that is dumber than the bad, wrong tweet. WTF is gonna hack into someone's account to post a factually incorrect tweet like that? GMAFB
   2055. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: June 24, 2021 at 01:07 PM (#6026116)
Well, he never actually claimed he was hacked. Maybe an intern writes his tweets for him or something like that.

It's not a good defense, but it is vaguely plausible.
   2056. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: June 24, 2021 at 01:12 PM (#6026118)
Connaughton I think is solid, but is just a guy.

He was a pretty good college baseball player iirc. Looks like he chose the right sport even if he's more of a NBA bench guy.

I see he shot 37% from 3 this year and has been decent in his career, but he missed a bunch of open looks yesterday that really hurt them. Especially the airball at the end, of course.
   2057. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: June 24, 2021 at 01:13 PM (#6026119)
Ah, yes, the gremlin interns. Always making mischief.
   2058. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 24, 2021 at 01:13 PM (#6026120)
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
ESPN Sources: Discussions on Ben Simmons' future with the Sixers started in Chicago this week, including Klutch CEO/agent Rich Paul and franchise's front office. No trade request was made, but talks will continue.
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
Sixers remain committed to working through Simmons' shooting issues this summer, especially free throws. Doc Rivers and Simmons met to discuss plans for moving forward together, per sources.
   2059. aberg Posted: June 24, 2021 at 01:57 PM (#6026128)
The NBA needs an equivalent book to the Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract.


I guess we have our next thread summer project!

I guess Indiana gave him 29 million reasons to not wait.


I hope it played out one by one. Like, Carlisle said he was going to wait to see if Milwaukee comes open, and Keven Prichard says "I wonder if my friend Mr. Washington could convince you otherwise" as he slyly slides a $1 bill across the table. The, Carlisle says, "no, still going to wait," then they repeat that exact interaction 26,999,999 more times until Carlisle relents.
   2060. asinwreck Posted: June 24, 2021 at 01:59 PM (#6026131)
"My hope is that Jason Kidd will be the next coach of the Mavs because he and Luka have so many things in common as players," Carlisle said. "I just think that it would be a great situation for Luka, and I think it would be an amazing situation for Jason. I'm the only person on the planet that's coached both of those guys and that knows about all of their special qualities as basketball players. To me, that just would be a great marriage, but that's just an opinion."
   2061. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 24, 2021 at 01:59 PM (#6026132)
Law Murray @LawMurrayTheNU
Chris Paul is officially available for Game 3 tonight in LA
Marc J. Spears @MarcJSpears
The Pacers didn’t appear to go through a diverse process in hiring of coach Rick Carlisle.G League Ignite coach Brian Shaw, who is black, had a phone conversation about the job, but source said a formal interview was never scheduled. It’s widely believed job was always Carlisle’s

   2062. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: June 24, 2021 at 02:05 PM (#6026137)
I wouldn't wish that on Luka.
   2063. Rally Posted: June 24, 2021 at 02:09 PM (#6026139)
Clippers not giving a lot of information on Leonard's availability, but for game 3 he's still out.
   2064. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: June 24, 2021 at 02:09 PM (#6026140)
I wouldn't wish that on Luka.

I wouldn't wish Kidd on anyone.
   2065. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 24, 2021 at 02:24 PM (#6026143)
Is that Carlisle trying to help out Luka and Kidd or trying to screw Cuban on the way out? I'm honestly not sure, which is kind of fun.
   2066. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 24, 2021 at 02:28 PM (#6026145)
John Schuhmann @johnschuhmann ·15m
Last 2 minute report from last night has 2 mistakes...

1. Giannis Antetokounmpo should have been called for a 10-second violation on his 1st FT w/ :05.3 left.

2. Giannis Antetokounmpo should have been called for a 10-second violation on his 2nd FT w/ :05.3 left.


Ha
   2067. jmurph Posted: June 24, 2021 at 02:44 PM (#6026149)
I'm fine with neither of these things being called, ever, but I noticed in the Sixers series that Trae sure looks like he commits a lane violation very frequently when he takes free throws, by stepping over the line early. Jaylen Brown does this, too, I'm not sure I've ever seen it called before.
   2068. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 24, 2021 at 03:00 PM (#6026150)
John Schuhmann @johnschuhmann ·15m
Last 2 minute report from last night has 2 mistakes...

1. Giannis Antetokounmpo should have been called for a 10-second violation on his 1st FT w/ :05.3 left.

2. Giannis Antetokounmpo should have been called for a 10-second violation on his 2nd FT w/ :05.3 left.

if the league office is actually telling this to their referees, then the referees need to call their bluff and make this thing front and center. because calling that violation at any point in a playoff game, let alone in the last two minutes, is colossally ####### stoopid.

whatever league office employee is putting this out needs to be fired into the ####### sun.
   2069. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 24, 2021 at 03:16 PM (#6026153)
Keith Pompey @PompeyOnSixers
#Sixers star Joel Embiid breaks away from CAA sports agency inquirer.com/sixers/sixers-… via @phillyinquirer


i'm sure this is not at all concerning.
   2070. spivey 2 Posted: June 24, 2021 at 03:17 PM (#6026154)
I'm fine with neither of these things being called, ever, but I noticed in the Sixers series that Trae sure looks like he commits a lane violation very frequently when he takes free throws, by stepping over the line early. Jaylen Brown does this, too, I'm not sure I've ever seen it called before.


There's a lot of free throw shenanigans going on. Tons of guys accidentally stepping in and not getting back out before the ball is released, and I almost never see that called. Guys behind the 3 coming down before the ball hits the rim all of the time too. I mean, if they want to clean it up, clean it up, but imo now is not the time to do it - the offseason is.
   2071. CFBF's Results are Certified Posted: June 24, 2021 at 03:37 PM (#6026156)
That needs to be how the entire season ends, really. Game 7, Suns and Bucks, Milwaukee up one, Chris Paul fouled with one-tenth of a second on the clock, only to get called for a 10-second violation on the first free throw and the Bucks get the ball back.
   2072. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 24, 2021 at 03:49 PM (#6026158)
This Scottie Pippen interview is...well, it's probably exactly what you expect. He's trying way too late to change his narrative and he is constantly contradicting himself*, but for the most part manages to not go full "back in my day" like lots and lots of retired guys do. HOWEVER, he manages to slip in this beauty of a quote:

"I think this younger generation always had respect for me. You hear my name a lot in a lot of the music videos and the raps and things of that nature. I try to stay relevant. I still feel young."

I think I have a new user name.

*He goes from immediately criticizing KD for not being enough of a team player and airballing his last shot to once again defending himself quitting on the Bulls in the 1.8 second game when he didn't get the last shot. Self-awareness of a brick, but he is who he is to quote him.
   2073. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: June 24, 2021 at 03:51 PM (#6026159)
That needs to be how the entire season ends, really. Game 7, Suns and Bucks, Milwaukee up one, Chris Paul fouled with one-tenth of a second on the clock, only to get called for a 10-second violation on the first free throw and the Bucks get the ball back.


I'm thinking ECF, last seconds, Bucks down 1, Giannis at the line, still at the line, still at the line, Trae gets antsy and steps in to try and #### with him...and dueling whistles! Giannis gets the 10-second violation AND Trae gets called for stepping into the lane. I mean, it's not all that unrealistic.

Who gets the ball in this scenerio? Does Giannis still get to shoot?
   2074. asinwreck Posted: June 24, 2021 at 04:04 PM (#6026162)
Pippen's candy bar was pretty good, so maybe his bourbon will be worthwhile.
   2075. aberg Posted: June 24, 2021 at 04:16 PM (#6026163)
That needs to be how the entire season ends, really. Game 7, Suns and Bucks, Milwaukee up one, Chris Paul fouled with one-tenth of a second on the clock, only to get called for a 10-second violation on the first free throw and the Bucks get the ball back.


I'm thinking ECF, last seconds, Bucks down 1, Giannis at the line, still at the line, still at the line, Trae gets antsy and steps in to try and #### with him...and dueling whistles! Giannis gets the 10-second violation AND Trae gets called for stepping into the lane. I mean, it's not all that unrealistic.

Who gets the ball in this scenerio? Does Giannis still get to shoot?


However this situation lines up, it MUST involve CP3 ratting out some other player. Maybe he untucks Giannis's jersey on the way to the line to get him called for a tech.
   2076. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 24, 2021 at 04:27 PM (#6026164)
Kidd: When the Lakers hired him, there was a lot of snark on the Lakers boards, divided equally among the ideas that he is a retrograde brickhead tactically, a domestic abuser, and also a guy who might undermine Vogel. I get that, but Kidd is one of those guys who seems to be seen much differently by a lot of players and people inside the game than he is by the intelligentsia part of the fan/analyst commentariat. Since the Lakers won the title, and Kidd stayed out of any controversy, it has been mostly forgotten among Lakers fans. Recall that Lillard spoke out in favor of Kidd getting hired in Portland when Stotts was eased out/left, and GregD jumped on here with some very useful contextual posts about Oakland/PGs. So I would not assume that Kidd will fail in Dallas if he gets the job, or that Doncic won't like him.

Tactics/playoff outcomes: Kidd is sort of a segue. Looking at the comment jmurph relayed about the Hawks, I would counter people saying that with the information that Mike A provided about the Hawks' basic metrics under McMillan. So, rather than zeroing in on "adjustments" my take is more:

1. Atlanta is just better than most people realized.
2. The Knicks are just not that good; they were 23rd in ORTG and 9th in DRTG.
3. Embiid was gimpy and Simmons imploded.
4. Young blew up in Game 1. I suppose the argument there is that Budenholzer needed to do something about that, and maybe he did. But Young is a very gifted offensive player; sometimes guys like that go off.

Basically, my opinion is that a lot of fans/analysts focus too much on tactical things that they think they are seeing on TV and not enough on stuff that we can't see--relationships, motivation, how moves might affect personalities, etc. Budenholzer got rave reviews, here and elsewhere, and rightly so, for updating the Bucks' O and their big improvement when he took over from Kidd. Kerr did some similar things taking over from Mark Jackson at Golden State. But those were macro adjustments about usage, 3s, etc. Playoff stuff seems to focus on micro adjustments, which IMO are trickier to analyze. My own experience as a fan of course affects my view of this (you know--bias). Riley was never known as a tactician; the Showtime teams either ran the break, dumped the ball into The Captain, or ran simple stuff with Magic and Worthy. Phil Jackson of course flat out said that he embraced the Triangle in part because he was "not good at Xs and Os."

Carlisle has been hailed as a tactical wiz, but ofc Dallas, as noted, had not won a playoff series in ten years. Lue has a good track record as an O coach and Hollinger has made a big deal about his tactics, but now they are down 0-2 yet again--this time without Leonard. Hollinger also talked up Williams, but his record in NO was nothing special, and the factors driving PHX's run are IMO Paul, Booker, Ayton, and catching the Lakers without Davis and the Clippers without Leonard. If I were going to credit Williams, I would credit him with those two young guys upping their games on his watch.

So, while I can't prove it, I think that playoff outcomes are driven much more by stars, roster composition, injuries, and variance than by tactics and adjustments, in part because I think most NBA coaches are pretty smart, and they all have their bench full of assistants, their video crews, and almost all teams have an analytics department now. YMMV.
   2077. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 24, 2021 at 04:40 PM (#6026167)
I'm thinking ECF, last seconds, Bucks down 1, Giannis at the line, still at the line, still at the line, Trae gets antsy and steps in to try and #### with him...and dueling whistles! Giannis gets the 10-second violation AND Trae gets called for stepping into the lane. I mean, it's not all that unrealistic.

Who gets the ball in this scenerio? Does Giannis still get to shoot?

lane violations aren't typically called until after a FT is taken (and missed), so i'm pretty sure it'd just be a 10-second violation/turnover on giannis.
   2078. Tin Angel Posted: June 24, 2021 at 05:38 PM (#6026171)
Pippen: "We had went through pretty much the Vietnam War to get where we got to"

Yes. It was just like that.
   2079. tshipman Posted: June 24, 2021 at 06:03 PM (#6026178)
The thing with the "coaching doesn't matter" argument is that going back like 30 years, a tiny number of NBA coaches have won championships. In the last 30 years, the worst coaches to win a ring have been Doc and Frank Vogel. I believe both have won a COTY.
   2080. Mike A Posted: June 24, 2021 at 07:20 PM (#6026193)
Hawks Under Pierce, 4th Quarter: ORtg 112.2, DRtg 120.3, NRtg -8.2
Hawks Under McMillan, 4th Quarter: ORtg 116.1, DRtg 104.3, NRtg +11.8

That's a wild swing, particularly the DRtg. Sure, some of that is luck/sample size, but there has to be some coaching involved. I guess it would make some sense that coaching matters more with a young, impressionable team. The Hawks went from a 4th quarter disaster to a team believing it can win close games and that's certainly shown in the playoffs.
   2081. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 24, 2021 at 08:34 PM (#6026200)
The Jump @NBATheJump
Per Woj on NBA Countdown: "There's no sign of Kawhi Leonard coming back in this series" #TheJump pic.twitter.com/IOqtL5lC45
Brad Townsend @townbrad
I'm told that special adviser Dirk Nowitzki not surprisingly strongly endorsed the promotion of Michael Finley to president of basketball ops and the hiring of Jason Kidd and that Kidd contract talks are moving rapidly.
Sam Quinn @SamQuinnCBS
Aside from the really heinous off-court reasons why Jason Kidd shouldn't be an NBA head coach, it should say something to the Mavericks that every fan base who has had him was thrilled to be rid of him. Bucks fans despised him. Lakers fans are popping champagne right now.
Gerald Bourguet @GeraldBourguet
Hiring Jason Kidd as your next head coach is one hell of way to signal the Mavericks' front office culture has changed!

   2082. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 24, 2021 at 08:49 PM (#6026202)
2079

Couple of points:

1. I am not saying that coaching doesn't matter; I am saying that I think there is a good case to be made that specific tactical adjustments
--which are usually the focus this time of year--matter less than big-picture stuff.
2. Also, I am using the term "opinion" rather than "argument" intentionally; this is just something that I believe. It is not something I have researched or whatever.

As to the small number of coaches thing, I think that is a cause-and-effect issue. For example, I think that Popovich is clearly an excellent coach and I think that he has done a nice job keeping SA decent post-Leonard. But his teams have not smelled the Finals now that he no longer has a Top-10 two-way star. That said, I suppose that there may be a huge difference between Popovich, and, say, Budenholzer--like 6-8 games a year, plus any close playoff series, or something.

But I think it is worth remembering that Budenholzer also took Atlanta to the ECF back in 2015. Then he gets to Milwaukee, and they get a lot better. So even if he is not a tactical wiz and has had some playoff setbacks, he seems to have something going for himself. And after this year, one of McMillan, Budenholzer, Williams, or Lue will have a ring (would be two for Lue). I do think the Teague stuff is worth bringing up, as people have.
   2083. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: June 24, 2021 at 09:09 PM (#6026212)
I don't think it is controversial to assert that in the sample size of a 7-game series, adjustments matter more than in the regular season, and I think it is telling and useful to pay attention to them.

Setting up a winning regular season system and coaching in the playoffs are, if not two different skills, different enough that a person can be good at one and not the other, and it is my assertion that Budenholzer is good at one and not the other because he is slow to react and bad at thinking on his feet. Monty, Lue and McMillan seem to be good at both.
   2084. Rally Posted: June 24, 2021 at 09:11 PM (#6026216)
“ I'm told that special adviser Dirk Nowitzki not surprisingly strongly endorsed the promotion of Michael Finley to president of basketball ops and the hiring of Jason Kidd and that Kidd contract talks are moving rapidly.”

That sounds like Royals special advisor Alex Gordon strongly endorsing the free agent signings of Wade Davis and Greg Holland to round out the bullpen.
   2085. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 24, 2021 at 09:27 PM (#6026230)
2083

Sure, maybe. OTOH, Phil Jackson was mocked occasionally for not making enough adjustments--here a little back in '10, and many Lakers fans complained about it quite a bit BITD. So we'll see. But I think this is more important than anything Budenholzer is doing or not doing:

Middleton needs to play better, and the team as a whole needs to shoot better. Pelton mentioned on a recent Lowe podcast that they have the 3rd lowest shot making in the playoffs this year, behind 2 teams that got bounced in the first round. I believe that's Second Spectrum data that looks at the player and how open they are to project what they should have shot vs. what they actually did shoot. Milwaukee (probably?) can't win the title shooting 30% from 3 every round. They have to start making shots, or they'll lose. If not to Atlanta, to Phoenix

   2086. jmurph Posted: June 24, 2021 at 09:34 PM (#6026235)
Cuban is going to get crushed for hiring Kidd, to the point that I would not rule out it falling through.
   2087. jmurph Posted: June 24, 2021 at 09:35 PM (#6026236)
Also Woj says someone from Nike named Nico Harrison is taking over basketball ops.
   2088. JJ1986 Posted: June 24, 2021 at 09:43 PM (#6026237)
Reading a puff piece on him, Harrison became a big deal working in 2003 with Kobe Bryant "whose reputation had sustained a hard hit."
   2089. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: June 24, 2021 at 10:04 PM (#6026239)
The Clips lineup of Jackson, rondo, Morris, kennard, and Batum offend me for some reason I can't quite put my finger on.
   2090. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 24, 2021 at 10:13 PM (#6026241)
The Clips lineup of Jackson, rondo, Morris, kennard, and Batum offend me for some reason I can't quite put my finger on.


Heh.
   2091. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 24, 2021 at 10:28 PM (#6026244)

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
1h
Nico Harrison has been pursued for several front office jobs in recent years but thus far remained at Nike. He’s well respected and well connected to many of the game’s best players.
Quote Tweet
Tim MacMahon
@espn_macmahon
· 1h
Sources: Mavs have had discussions with longtime Nike executive Nico Harrison about joining the Dallas front office. Harrison has strong relationships with players throughout the NBA -- including Luka Doncic -- and has been pursued for front office jobs by other teams.
   2092. Howie Menckel Posted: June 24, 2021 at 10:30 PM (#6026245)
[Pippen] goes from immediately criticizing KD for not being enough of a team player and airballing his last shot to once again defending himself quitting on the Bulls in the 1.8 second game when he didn't get the last shot.


1994, final season of Chicago Stadium before the Bulls moved into the United Center.
the old barn had the locker rooms UNDER the court surface, basically. you went down a catwalk to get down there.

obviously massive uncertainty and interest from the media in what the hell happened with Pippen.
as soon as a 'quorum' of sorts of media was reached, Jackson arguably throws Scottie under the bus (maybe that's too pejorative - but he didn't even wait for a question before detailing how it all went down).

maybe 5 minutes into the post-game presser, a 'second wave' of reporters arrives.
Phil greets them by reiterating his explanation, again without needing a question first.

it was stone cold. but hey, you gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette - and he didn't say anything that wasn't true.

I think 'Last Dance' reasonably well captured Pippen - and it sounds like his latest round makes that more obvious.
   2093. Howie Menckel Posted: June 24, 2021 at 10:33 PM (#6026246)
double post - weird
   2094. asinwreck Posted: June 24, 2021 at 10:46 PM (#6026248)
I wonder if Booker's vision is affected by the mask.
   2095. "bothsidesism" word 57i66135 Posted: June 24, 2021 at 10:54 PM (#6026249)
Marc Stein @TheSteinLine
The Suns haven't lost a game since May 27. It's June 24th.
   2096. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: June 25, 2021 at 12:04 AM (#6026255)
Huh, are the Clippers actually some super team that just takes the first two games of every series off because they want it to be interesting?
   2097. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 25, 2021 at 02:24 AM (#6026262)
Zubac: 32:34, 15 pts, 16 reb, +28
Batum: 14:39, 4 pts, 0 reb, -10

   2098. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 25, 2021 at 02:27 AM (#6026263)
Lakers fans are popping champagne right now.


There are a total of four comments on the Kidd story on the Lakers SB Nation affiliate at present; none of them is celebratory. None of them is funereal, either; people are simply focused on who is going to replace him. No one is going to "pop champagne" over either the departure or the arrival of an assistant coach.
   2099. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: June 25, 2021 at 06:38 AM (#6026268)
   2100. jmurph Posted: June 25, 2021 at 08:54 AM (#6026278)
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