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Friday, May 21, 2021

NBA 2021 Playoffs+ thread

I estimate there are maybe 10-12 Primates left on this site, and they all post in the NBA thread.

Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: May 21, 2021 at 01:07 PM | 4653 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: clutch, narratives, nba, off topic, redemption

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Page 37 of 47 pages ‹ First  < 35 36 37 38 39 >  Last ›
   3601. 57i66135 right now is attacking rest Posted: August 02, 2021 at 02:40 PM (#6032216)
and flip.
   3602. jmurph Posted: August 02, 2021 at 02:40 PM (#6032217)
Besides trying to trade Ben Simmons, the Sixers are shopping Tobias Harris. The Rockets are one of the teams that turned down Harris, per sources.

I don't think Harris is a major difference-maker, and he's definitely overpaid relative to his abilities, but he had a really good year. I'd be surprised if a Harris trade made them better.

(EDIT: I can't tell if the wording of this makes sense. I mean: because he's presumably viewed as overpaid but also pretty good, I'd be surprised if a trade that worked under the cap also made them better on the court.)
   3603. tshipman Posted: August 02, 2021 at 03:08 PM (#6032227)
I'd be surprised if a trade that worked under the cap also made them better on the court.


Who says no???

Warriors receive: Tobias Harris, George Hill
76ers receive: Steph Curry
   3604. asinwreck Posted: August 02, 2021 at 03:14 PM (#6032229)
How many draft picks would Morey give Presti to take Harris? Thirty?
   3605. jmurph Posted: August 02, 2021 at 04:17 PM (#6032241)
Marc Stein @TheSteinLine
The Cavaliers are preparing an offer in the five-year, $100 million range to center Jarrett Allen, league sources say. Strong signals that Cleveland will re-sign the RFA Allen to pair him with Evan Mobley.
   3606. tshipman Posted: August 02, 2021 at 04:23 PM (#6032243)
I guess that's a reasonable offer for Allen, but why exactly should the Cavs be offering him more than Capela?
   3607. CFBF's Results are Certified Posted: August 02, 2021 at 04:23 PM (#6032244)
Never mind. Broke the page.
   3608. JJ1986 Posted: August 02, 2021 at 04:34 PM (#6032250)
Deal needs to become a triple S&T with Markkanen going to Charlotte.

I nailed it.
   3609. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: August 02, 2021 at 05:25 PM (#6032261)
So what's the difference between what Bucks did last year with Bogdanovic and Heat this year with Lowry?
   3610. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 02, 2021 at 05:26 PM (#6032262)
Teaming up with Leonard would be the fastest way there, so he placed the call, according to multiple sources. But Leonard didn't just take the call as one native son of Los Angeles to another, ponder it and file it away.

He used it.

According to multiple sources, Leonard then called Westbrook's teammate in Oklahoma City, Paul George, and told him he'd rather team up with him on a homecoming.


I think these guys are setting up a Lakers/Clippers reality show, to be produced by LeBron James's production company. The King and The Claw: Battle of the Hallway streaming January 2022.
   3611. . . . . . . Posted: August 02, 2021 at 05:30 PM (#6032263)
I think these guys are setting up a Lakers/Clippers reality show, to be produced by LeBron James's production company.


to be fair this would be ####### awesome, would get great ratings and I would watch.
   3612. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 05:32 PM (#6032264)
I’m surprised the bulls guaranteed the full 10m to Sato - I guess for trade purposes?
   3613. asinwreck Posted: August 02, 2021 at 05:36 PM (#6032265)
We'll know soon, but I'd guess both Sato and Thad are in planned trades.

Today's the day JJ Polk earns his salary.
   3614. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: August 02, 2021 at 05:36 PM (#6032267)
@MarkDeeksNBA
31 minutes left for Cristiano Felicio to sign an extension. The most the Bulls can offer him is a four year, $53.76 million dollar pact that runs through 2025, but Felicio may be able to get more on the open market.
   3615. jmurph Posted: August 02, 2021 at 05:38 PM (#6032268)
That Bulls tweet is outstanding.
   3616. asinwreck Posted: August 02, 2021 at 05:38 PM (#6032269)
Absolutely.
Today's the day JJ Polk earns his salary.
   3617. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 02, 2021 at 05:44 PM (#6032270)
I am sensing that some of the NBA Thread commentariat are having real doubts about David Griffin in New Orleans.
   3618. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: August 02, 2021 at 06:03 PM (#6032273)
@ShamsCharania
Lonzo Ball has agreed to a four-year, $85 million deal with the Chicago Bulls, CEO of Klutch Sports Rich Paul tells @TheAthletic
@Stadium


Anyone have any takes on Ball's d? If he's a good defender I actually like this for the Bulls; I just have no idea how to judge his defense on the Pelicans.
   3619. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: August 02, 2021 at 06:06 PM (#6032276)
@ShamsCharania
Free agent Mike Conley Jr. has agreed to a three-year, $68 million deal to return to the Utah Jazz, sources tell @TheAthletic
@Stadium


Very happy with this, and I will be very confused if Lowry gets over $30M
   3620. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 06:10 PM (#6032279)
He’s a good defender. Not great! but def good.

More rumors:
Barton stays in Denver 2/32
Theis to HOU
Hardaway stays in DEN 4/72
Conley stays, 3 year deal 3/68 (maybe 72.5m)
Garrett temple to NWO for 3 years, first 2 guaranteed for 5 per
Boban stays in DAL
Butler expected to sign 4 year extension for 184m
Knicks keep burks 3/30 Noel 3/32
Jamychal green 2/17 with den
Ball sign and trade to involve a 2nd rounder, sato, and the temple signing
Allen 5/100 in cleveland
Olynyk 3/37 to DET
McConnell stays in Indy
   3621. Hombre Brotani Posted: August 02, 2021 at 06:11 PM (#6032280)
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
Breaking: Five-time NBA All-Star Jimmy Butler is expected to agree to a maximum contract extension with the Miami Heat when the league year opens on Aug. 6, sources tell me and @JonKrawczynski.

   3622. Hombre Brotani Posted: August 02, 2021 at 06:12 PM (#6032282)
That's a very necessary deal for Utah, and the money's not terrible at all.
   3623. JJ1986 Posted: August 02, 2021 at 06:13 PM (#6032283)
I love Lowry, but Conley is younger and didn't he just have a better season? I guess Kyle is a better fit on teams with another lead ballhandler.
   3624. JJ1986 Posted: August 02, 2021 at 06:21 PM (#6032286)
Olynyk to Detroit. Not a bad contract, but what even is their roster?
   3625. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 06:24 PM (#6032287)
cap at expectations, 112.414m

hardaway may have 2m in incentives as well

payne 3/19 - stays in PHO

mcconnell got 4/35.2

if i run the pelicans, i think i'd rather have nothing than sato, temple, and a 2nd? (hell, i'd just match ball) i like sato but not at that price.
   3626. spivey 2 Posted: August 02, 2021 at 06:34 PM (#6032289)
3609: Bucks Twitter is pretty salty. Flags fly forever but he’d fit so well next to the big 3.
   3627. jmurph Posted: August 02, 2021 at 06:35 PM (#6032290)
Acknowledging that I’m fully biased against both parties, Jimmy Butler still had two years (the final is a player option), will be 32 when the season starts, and has like three(?) fully healthy seasons in his career. That is a massive commitment.
   3628. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 06:41 PM (#6032291)
duncan robinson 5/90 to stay in mia with an eto after year 4
torrey craig 2/10 with indy
doug mcdermott 3/42 with sas
   3629. asinwreck Posted: August 02, 2021 at 06:43 PM (#6032292)
The Ball sign-and-trade delights me, in part because while I will miss consummate professional Garrett Temple, he gets to go home on a two-year guarantee. Would anyone have guessed he'd be able to do that a year ago? Or be part of a deal to get a major young player back for the Bulls?

Has Felicio signed yet?
   3630. asinwreck Posted: August 02, 2021 at 06:45 PM (#6032293)
Whoa.

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Phoenix Suns All-Star guard Chris Paul has agreed to stay on a new four-year deal that could be worth as much as $120 million, his agents Steve Heumann and Ty Sullivan of @CAA_Basketball tell ESPN.
   3631. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 06:47 PM (#6032295)
what asinwreck said, without citation
   3632. JJ1986 Posted: August 02, 2021 at 06:47 PM (#6032296)
I thought CP was basically limited to a 3-year deal.
   3633. Paul D(uda) Posted: August 02, 2021 at 06:47 PM (#6032297)
Lowry to the Heat is officiall, but no details announced
   3634. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 02, 2021 at 06:53 PM (#6032298)
3627

That's Riley. You take care of your guys. BITD in the Alonzo Mourning Era in Viceville, Hollinger and some other guys in the nascent era of NBA sabermetrics said that Riley overvalued "toughness" and undervalued talent in choosing and paying players. One example they gave was Brian Grant, but also Anthony Mason, Anthony Carter, others. Like I said even before Butler signed there, he fits that mentality and ofc is also a really good player. That does not make the deal a good idea, of course. But it is a Riley move all the way.

Ball and LaVine will be an exciting all-UCLA backcourt in Chicago. I think that New Orleans may end up regretting letting Ball leave.
   3635. 57i66135 right now is attacking rest Posted: August 02, 2021 at 06:56 PM (#6032299)
So what's the difference between what Bucks did last year with Bogdanovic and Heat this year with Lowry?
the kings.
   3636. tshipman Posted: August 02, 2021 at 06:57 PM (#6032300)
Phoenix Suns All-Star guard Chris Paul has agreed to stay on a new four-year deal that could be worth as much as $120 million, his agents Steve Heumann and Ty Sullivan of @CAA_Basketball tell ESPN.


Hahahahaha what the #### is this world
   3637. tshipman Posted: August 02, 2021 at 06:59 PM (#6032301)
The best part about that Chris Paul deal is that due to the over 38 rule, the money has to be paid out like it's 3/120. So his trade number is 40mm, which makes it completely impossible to trade him.
   3638. JJ1986 Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:00 PM (#6032302)
Hahaha:
Free agent Doug McDermott has agreed to a three-year, $42 million deal with the San Antonio Spurs, sources tell @TheAthletic
@Stadium.
   3639. 57i66135 right now is attacking rest Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:01 PM (#6032303)
Hahaha:
best organization in basketball.
   3640. tshipman Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:01 PM (#6032304)
someone check the calendar, is it 2016?
   3641. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:01 PM (#6032305)
lowry got 3/90, it sounds like - about expectations. holinger notes that the s/t will require more than dragic and achiuwa for that to work (though i wonder if this might also be an unlikely incentive issue)
heat will be hard capped - could use full mle and then sign people to min deals

the spurs lost the thread a few years back, imo
   3642. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:04 PM (#6032306)
John Hollinger
@johnhollinger
·
2m
Kyle Lowry's deal can reach $87 million over three years if the rumored combo of Goran Dragic and Precious Achiuwa are the only players in the sign-and-trade. A higher dollar amount would require other players.
   3643. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:04 PM (#6032307)
Precious Achiuwa

This guy is on my all-name team.
   3644. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:05 PM (#6032308)
great name
   3645. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:06 PM (#6032310)
Popeye Jones is on it as well.
   3646. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:06 PM (#6032311)
sterling brown to dallas for 2/6.2
jeff green to den 2/10
david nwaba stays in HOU 3/15
moe harkless to SAC 2/9
reggie bullock to DAL
   3647. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:13 PM (#6032312)
Denver will be Green's 12th stop, covering 11 different franchises. He played for the Sonics as a rookie in 2007-8.
   3648. asinwreck Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:14 PM (#6032313)
Popeye Jones is an 80 name, and he's just replaced Wes Unseld Jr. on Denver's bench.

Nwaba was rumored to be going back to Brooklyn, but great he was able to get three years after that Achilles injury.
   3649. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:14 PM (#6032314)
I like that deal for the Bulls.
   3650. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:17 PM (#6032317)
popeye also has 2 kids in the nhl (both with chicago), which is neat

happy for nwaba who both is a type of player i root for and an individual who is very fun to watch
   3651. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:17 PM (#6032318)
the kings.


actually fair. might agree with what the NBA did now.
   3652. JJ1986 Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:19 PM (#6032319)
Nets might get Otto Porter to replace Green, but they can't offer him much money as far as I can tell.
   3653. JJ1986 Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:21 PM (#6032320)
Did Albert Nahmad stop tweeting? He'd be all over the Lowry S&T machinations.
   3654. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:22 PM (#6032321)
bobby portis stays with milwaukee for 2/9 (!!). year 2 is a po
korkmaz stays in philly 3/15
trent 3/54 with TOR, yr 3 is a po

paul: yr 3 reportedly partially guaranteed, yr 4 non-guaranteed
   3655. aberg Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:30 PM (#6032322)
I always have to remind myself that teams pretty much have to overpay to get a deal done this early. I always hate so many of them. Ones I like: Portis, both J Greens (although that probably means Millsap and McGee are gone from Denver), Ball. That's about it.
   3656. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:30 PM (#6032323)
zach collins to SAS for 3/22
   3657. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:32 PM (#6032325)
the cam payne deal is also good.

alex len, 2 yr, SAC
muscala stays in okc for 2/7
   3658. JJ1986 Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:35 PM (#6032326)
There are like 5 teams in the west who aren't even trying. The Wolves are going to back into a play-in game spot with 36 wins.
   3659. 57i66135 right now is attacking rest Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:35 PM (#6032327)
korkmaz stays in philly 3/15
death, texas, and furkan ####### korkmaz in a sixers jersey.
   3660. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:38 PM (#6032328)
furkan at 3/15 is a solid value.
   3661. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:39 PM (#6032329)
ariza to the lakers for a year. ellington as well.

bullock's deal reportedly is for 3 years
   3662. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:42 PM (#6032330)
death, texas, and furkan ####### korkmaz in a sixers jersey.


you should be...unafraid of that contract.
   3663. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:45 PM (#6032333)
ariza to the lakers for a year.


Supposedly Howard wants to come back as well.
   3664. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:50 PM (#6032334)
len got 2/7.65. i like len, surprised he got that much.
howard, indeed, is returning to the lakers
   3665. asinwreck Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:54 PM (#6032335)
Russ and Howard sharing a locker room could be fun.
   3666. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:54 PM (#6032336)
soloman hill stays in atlanta. booooooooooooooooooooo
   3667. spivey 2 Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:56 PM (#6032338)
I know Bobby Portis gave up money to stay, but I don’t think he is worth more than the MLE. Maybe the full MLE, but I don’t think he deserves Allen Crabbe money. I love me some Bobby though and happy he stayed. Is that their taxpayer mid level? If not, I’d like Caruso.

Part of me also thought, BroLo sign and trade for Ball would improve both teams. Would need to do more digging on if Bucks could even do that since I think they’re hardcapped. Obviously it was just a pipe dream anyways since New Orleans got their next mediocre center.
   3668. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:59 PM (#6032339)
Russ and Howard sharing a locker room could be fun


Howard's return adds fuel to my reality show theory.
   3669. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:59 PM (#6032340)
portis doesn't deserve crabbe money, but something up to almost the full mle makes sense
   3670. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:07 PM (#6032342)
Fournier to knicks for 4/78 (if he hits all incentives, yr 4 is a t-opt)
batum 2 yr with clippers
   3671. tshipman Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:09 PM (#6032343)
I know Bobby Portis gave up money to stay, but I don’t think he is worth more than the MLE. Maybe the full MLE, but I don’t think he deserves Allen Crabbe money. I love me some Bobby though and happy he stayed. Is that their taxpayer mid level? If not, I’d like Caruso.


Caruso is an RFA. You're not going to get him for the taxpayer MLE.
   3672. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:12 PM (#6032344)
Rose 3/43 NYK
Yuck
—-
I think to get Caruso you’d have to top the full mle (naively). He seemingly wants to stay and the Lakers need his skills and can’t replace the asset.
   3673. asinwreck Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:13 PM (#6032345)
Knicks using cap space to keep Rose. He likes Thibs, Thibs likes him, but I imagine Knicks fans want more.

So, where does Schröder go? New Orleans?
   3674. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:13 PM (#6032346)
Big subset of the Lakers blogosphere is basically threatening to egg Pelinka's house or worse if they don't keep Caruso. Caruso making way more money than Dwight Howard while sharing a locker room with him is an amusing thought.
   3675. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:14 PM (#6032347)
I think to get Caruso you’d have to top the full mle (naively)


Yep. 95% sure that the Lakers would match that.
   3676. asinwreck Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:15 PM (#6032348)
OK, Knicks doing more.
Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Free agent Evan Fournier has agreed to a four-year deal that could be worth as much as $78M with the New York Knicks, source tells ESPN.
France still represented on the Knicks' roster.
   3677. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:17 PM (#6032349)
Lakers are supposedly looking at Patty Mills, which is one reason that Lakerpeople are freaking that Caruso might be gone.

I have never been a big Fournier fan, but apparently he is better than he looks when I have seen him.
   3678. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:18 PM (#6032350)
On cue
Caruso to CHI 4/37
   3679. JJ1986 Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:20 PM (#6032351)
Caruso signs with the Bulls.
   3680. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:21 PM (#6032352)
Howard should help, but if Lakers are a top defensive team again next year just give Vogel COY.
   3681. asinwreck Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:22 PM (#6032353)
Did not see that coming. Is Coby moving?
   3682. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:22 PM (#6032354)
Reminds me of the argument that there’s a cap on what Lakers ownership might spend
   3683. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:23 PM (#6032355)
We will see what Pelinka has in mind, if anything. Sabertypes in Lakerland were big on Caruso's numbers in lineups with LeBron. Like I said: Pelinka is not creative, but he is tactical and thorough, so I think that he has something else he wants to do, because that is not too expensive for Caruso, and James and Davis like him.

The Bulls will now be every Laker Fanboy's, including this one's, favorite EC team.
   3684. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:28 PM (#6032356)
Reminds me of the argument that there’s a cap on what Lakers ownership might spend


Maybe, but Jeannie said about a month ago that she'll pay the luxury tax for a contender. And, I can't imagine Pelinka doing this without another plan LeBron supports. But we'll see; maybe it was just money or a mistake.
   3685. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:41 PM (#6032360)
cory joseph back to DET for 2/10
javale to PHO for 1/5
   3686. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:41 PM (#6032361)
Caruso was an UFA BTW, but they had his Bird Rights.
   3687. asinwreck Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:43 PM (#6032362)
Monty Williams sure wishes he could make that JaVale signing retroactive by about one month.
   3688. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:49 PM (#6032363)
theis deal with HOU was 4/36, will be a S/T
cody zeller to POR (2.5m? - sounds low)
trey lyles to DET 2/5
   3689. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:49 PM (#6032364)
3866/rr: right - Caruso could have just wanted to go. (Though I thought he wanted to stay. Though - what would I know?)
   3690. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:52 PM (#6032365)
Adding to 3684: maybe Jeannie put brakes on $ with COVID raging again. So we will see.
   3691. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:54 PM (#6032367)
Bullock got 3/30.5 in the Dallas deal?
--
3690/rr: Or maybe the Bulls and Lakers make it a sign and trade, in conjunction with the Theis deal? Though I think BYC would be in play.
   3692. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:55 PM (#6032368)
Though I thought he wanted to stay.


He said he did, but that might have been PR. Keys were that he fit well with this group and LeBron likes him. So either Pelinka thinks he has something he can pull off or Jeannie gave Pelinka some new money restrictions. Or maybe both--who knows.

But Caruso leaving is the first thing that has surprised me about the Lakers in awhile.
   3693. asinwreck Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:55 PM (#6032369)
The Theis S/T looks to be for the Victor Oladipo trade exception.

The Bulls are having a terrific night.
   3694. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:55 PM (#6032370)
I have always kind of liked Bullock. I guess Dallas does, too.
   3695. jmurph Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:59 PM (#6032371)
Do we know the Lowry sign and trade details yet?
   3696. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 09:01 PM (#6032372)
i had wondered if the lakers would keep caruso might maybe do a deal where tht went elsewhere if somebody made a big offer on the grounds that 20 year olds are worth taking risks on and the lakers had an internal payroll limit. not sure how caruse leaving (which def surprised me) changes that, though i'm also not sure who makes that kind of an offer now. (thinking a tyler johnson like deal)
   3697. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 09:02 PM (#6032373)
PJ Tucker to the Heat? (per shams) 2/15. somehow, year 2 is a p-opt


der k: aggregating the aggregators ... until he puts the kids to bed
   3698. asinwreck Posted: August 02, 2021 at 09:03 PM (#6032374)
No word from Chicago media that the trade exception is in a Caruso S/T.

K.C. Johnson @KCJHoop
Can confirm the Alex Caruso signing that @wojespn first reported, which is the majority of the full MLE over 4 years.

Bulls still have BAE and minimums to round out roster up front.
   3699. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 02, 2021 at 09:04 PM (#6032375)
caruso probably isn't an s/t - just thinking out loud
   3700. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 02, 2021 at 09:07 PM (#6032376)
flip
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