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Friday, May 21, 2021

NBA 2021 Playoffs+ thread

I estimate there are maybe 10-12 Primates left on this site, and they all post in the NBA thread.

Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: May 21, 2021 at 01:07 PM | 4930 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: clutch, narratives, nba, off topic, redemption

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   3801. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 03, 2021 at 01:29 PM (#6032544)
spivey - oops, of course.
   3802. jmurph Posted: August 03, 2021 at 01:30 PM (#6032545)
Man I think Mills would be great for Milwaukee. Sounds like he's in play for the Warriors and Lakers, too, though.
   3803. aberg Posted: August 03, 2021 at 01:32 PM (#6032546)
I was very curious where Drummond would land. Kind of surprised he signed this quickly and quite surprised he processed himself into a backup role behind one of the best pure centers in the league.
   3804. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: August 03, 2021 at 01:35 PM (#6032547)
I was very curious where Drummond would land. Kind of surprised he signed this quickly and quite surprised he processed himself into a backup role behind one of the best pure centers in the league[...]
...who has a talent for getting injured and misses 20% of the season, every season.
   3805. aberg Posted: August 03, 2021 at 01:35 PM (#6032548)
...who has a talent for getting injured and misses 20% of the season, every season.


Yes, but for someone who has made a big deal about starting everywhere he has been, playing 36 minutes 20% of the time and 12 minutes 80% of the time is a big step down.
   3806. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 03, 2021 at 01:36 PM (#6032549)
why would drummond do that for the minimum? if it's to ring chase, aren't there better options?


I don't think so. Basically trading jobs with Howard is a pretty good outcome for both Howard and Drummond I think.
   3807. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: August 03, 2021 at 01:44 PM (#6032552)
Ky Carlin @Ky_Carlin
Remember when Andre Drummond shushed Sixers fans after making a free throw and still down by 30? Classic moment.
youtu.be/XnBH1kK2jFs

   3808. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 03, 2021 at 01:56 PM (#6032554)
if he wanted to be paid, someone offers more than the minimum. charlotte could use him in a tandem with plumlee, for instance.
if he wanted to maximize title chances, brooklyn is one that, at first thought, sounds better. (take that deandre.)
a hybrid: i would have said phoenix, though maybe paul really wanted mcgee?
   3809. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 03, 2021 at 02:09 PM (#6032555)
how do people feel about the minivan (niang)?

demar to chicago in a s/t (for lauri?) might be a thing
   3810. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 03, 2021 at 02:24 PM (#6032560)
3808

Traditional 5s who can't play away from the basket are considered to be pretty fungible in today's game; even Embiid shoots outside some. Gobert is ofc an exception, but we are also hearing stuff now about how he is a problem in postseason. Drummond is still 27, but he is a little heavy-legged, and I don't think is seen as being as good at rim protection as McGee and Howard are even though they are old guys. Don't know what the metrics say about that. Maybe Drummond's agent already knew that Charlotte and Brooklyn and other possible destinations were not into him; Howard coming back to LA was a thing 2-3 weeks before FA started.

I think it is pretty clear that a lot of this stuff happens on off-grid calls and texts now, before FA starts. Phoenix wanted McGee; LA wanted Howard. That left the spot in Philly. Also, I am not sure that a mediocre team wants to pay a guy like Drummond or have him around. Philly would want him so they have a big body to spell Embiid and in case Embiid gets hurt.
   3811. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 03, 2021 at 02:39 PM (#6032561)
Traditional 5s who can't play away from the basket are considered to be pretty fungible in today's game
Sure, though I'd like to refine this slightly to - Drummond can't shoot away from the basket - Detroit experimented with high post setups because of his passing ability. That debatable point aside, I don't think he's as good at rim protection but it better at enough other things to be a better player on the whole. I'm never been a Drummond fan, but this is potentially a market overcorrection.
To that end - would you take Drummond or RoLo (1/5) in Orlando?

Totally agree wrt off grid and whatnot.
--
Nader to PHO 2/4.2
   3812. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 03, 2021 at 02:45 PM (#6032562)
I like RoLo because me and my dad call him "Unfrozen Caveman Center" as a tribute to the late, great Phil Hartman. So if I ran a team and had Ballmer money, I am going 3/42 for RoLo. But that is just me.
   3813. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 03, 2021 at 02:45 PM (#6032563)
I can't argue with that, rr. Also, the whole mascot nonsense is fun.
(as is your point about why would a mediocre team pursue him ... if you want to make a run for the playoffs, he's worth it; if you want to rebuild, go for a tony bradley type or whatever)
---
Mills to BRK 2/12, yr 2 a p-opt
Didi L inks a 4 year deal with NWO
   3814. tshipman Posted: August 03, 2021 at 02:49 PM (#6032564)
Gonna be awkward when the Mills lineups outperform the Kyrie lineups.
   3815. spivey 2 Posted: August 03, 2021 at 02:50 PM (#6032565)
Patty Mills! Spurs love, Milwaukee love, and Australian accent love unite!

Edit: Oh damn it, I misread BRK as MKE.

Brooklyn is gonna be really, really good.
   3816. aberg Posted: August 03, 2021 at 02:52 PM (#6032566)
Someone created a very good forgery of the TWolves beat writer's twitter account and tweeted that the Wolves traded Beasley, Juancho, and Culver for Siakam. Too bad that wasn't real.
   3817. jmurph Posted: August 03, 2021 at 02:53 PM (#6032567)
Damn that is a killer signing for Brooklyn. I don't want to overdo the praise for Mills, he's not amazing, but considering Kyrie is a lock to miss somewhere between 20 games and half a season plus the post-season, you can't hope for a much better backup than that.
   3818. tshipman Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:02 PM (#6032569)
Brooklyn is gonna be really, really good.


Their window is basically next year, right?
   3819. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:03 PM (#6032570)
Damn that is a killer signing for Brooklyn. I don't want to overdo the praise for Mills, he's not amazing, but considering Kyrie is a lock to miss somewhere between 20 games and half a season plus the post-season, you can't hope for a much better backup than that.
if the sixers had patty mills for the last 5 years, they would have won 3 titles.
   3820. jmurph Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:04 PM (#6032571)
Their window is basically next year, right?

Barring yet another injury, Durant looks like he's going to be more than good enough even if Harden/Kyrie/etc. age normally. So no I don't think so.
   3821. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:06 PM (#6032572)
Someone created a very good forgery of the TWolves beat writer's twitter account and tweeted that the Wolves traded Beasley, Juancho, and Culver for Siakam. Too bad that wasn't real.

Yes, that's a shame.
   3822. PJ Martinez Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:07 PM (#6032573)
Melo to the Lakers, per Woj
   3823. jmurph Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:10 PM (#6032574)
Monk to the Lakers, too.
   3824. jmurph Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:10 PM (#6032575)
Extremely anxiety-producing to watch one's team seemingly swing and miss at everyone.
   3825. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:13 PM (#6032576)
think melo is the minimum and monk is ... the mle?
   3826. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:15 PM (#6032577)
And Malik Monk, supposedly. Anthony was inevitable.
   3827. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:16 PM (#6032578)
We'll see. At least Monk is under 30. Ha.
   3828. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:18 PM (#6032579)
Some guy did a breakdown that showed signing Caruso to that deal would have cost the Lakers 40M, in effect, due to tax implications. Not sure it was reliable, but it seemed quite thorough.
   3829. asinwreck Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:19 PM (#6032580)
Mills is the ideal Sean Marks player. Marks has to navigate his massive contracts every summer. He did a great job last year, and it's looking very good again (including Brown and Blake coming back cheap).
   3830. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:21 PM (#6032581)
Yeah, I think Brooklyn and Milwaukee are co-faves right now.
   3831. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:23 PM (#6032583)
tax implications of caruso - sounds about right
i like the monk signing. he's been pretty inefficient in his career, but the shot always looked more like what he did last year than in the prior 3 + he's an underrated passer. not great on d, still young (23?)

who doesn't love patty mills? great fit on the nets.
   3832. tshipman Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:31 PM (#6032584)
Huh, Malik Monk was kind of good last year.
   3833. jmurph Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:33 PM (#6032586)
Surely Schroder is also going to resign? He has basically no other good option.

(How much did he turn down from them, again?)

   3834. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:34 PM (#6032589)
Monk hit .401 on 3s last year, (same exact % as Caruso) but was .330, .342, and .284 before that. OTOH, the guy will be 24 in February and was a low lottery pick, so he may have improved and the Lakers obviously hope that he has improved and can settle in as a decent 3P guy. He took 5 3s a game. He only played 42 games last year. Anyway, signing a young guard who looks like he could be an OK player and may be on the upswing seems like a pretty good idea.

As to Anthony joining James here...it was going to happen eventually. I will take a closer look at Anthony's stats later. Anthony and Howard being here totally adds to the 1999 Houston Rockets vibe on the Lakers, but that team did not have anybody as good as Davis in his 20s. But ofc...injuries.
   3835. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:36 PM (#6032590)
Schroder reportedly turned down 4/84.
   3836. tshipman Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:41 PM (#6032591)
I wouldn't offer anything above the minimum to Schroder.
   3837. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:43 PM (#6032592)
Yes, tshipman, we know how you feel about Russell and Schroder. We can add that as a segment to the BTF NBA Podcast, right after my weekly segment on bias. Ha.
   3838. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:50 PM (#6032593)
Also, how Knicks-y are the Knicks?
   3839. jmurph Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:52 PM (#6032594)
Dave McMenamin @mcten
By teaming up with Carmelo Anthony, LeBron James will now have played with 10 members of the 2003 draft, plus Udonis Haslem who was undrafted that year, and he was coached by Luke Walton, the No. 32 pick.

Fun piece of trivia.
   3840. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:53 PM (#6032595)
I like that Monk pickup for the Lakers. He had some ups and downs with the Hornets, but he can shoot, and definitely won't be asked to do too much on a team with LeBron, Davis and Westbrook.
   3841. jmurph Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:54 PM (#6032596)
Also, how Knicks-y are the Knicks?

I didn't think the Fournier deal was nearly as bad as some others did? I basically hated everything else they did, though.
   3842. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:55 PM (#6032597)
I didn't think the Fournier deal was awful, but four years? The Rose deal is very bad. Burks? Eh. Noel? Eh. This team just screams "Thibs breaks two players in his hunt for the play-in, loses his ####, sabotages the team and is fired next season" to me.
   3843. jmurph Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:57 PM (#6032598)
I didn't think the Fournier deal was awful, but four years?

I think the 4th is a team option but don't actually care enough to double-check, the point is fair. I don't think it's great, I just feel like it got a crazy reaction on basketball twitter and I was like ehhhh, definite overpay but not crazy to me.
   3844. asinwreck Posted: August 03, 2021 at 04:01 PM (#6032600)
Chris Haynes
@ChrisBHaynes
Free agent star DeMar DeRozan is close to reaching an agreement with the Chicago Bulls, league sources tell @YahooSports.
We'll see if this comes to pass. If the Bulls gets DeRozan in a S/T for Markkanen, I will need therapy to come to terms with the fact that Chicago has an agile and strategic front office.

EDIT: Yup.
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
DeMar DeRozan is finalizing a three-year, $85 million-plus deal to join the Chicago Bulls, sources tell @TheAthletic @Stadium
Thad Young's just-guaranteed contract is part of the deal to San Antonio. And a 1st. AK taking Morey's mantle as Dealer of Picks.
   3845. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: August 03, 2021 at 04:01 PM (#6032601)
That is a good piece of trivia.

Bosh, Wade, 'Melo of course. Kyle Korver. I think Mo Williams was in that draft and overlapped in Cleveland. No clue on the rest of the guys. Varejao?
   3846. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 03, 2021 at 04:02 PM (#6032602)
that's where i am on fournier as well, jmurph -- though i say that independent of "what does this mean for the knicks' plan?"

as a hawks fan, i'm obligated to dislike schroder as well, who i view as an empty calorie player and low level jerk.
   3847. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 03, 2021 at 04:02 PM (#6032603)
derozan to chi for thad, a 1st, and 2 2nds per shams

asinwreck, cancel any upcoming therapy appointments.
   3848. jmurph Posted: August 03, 2021 at 04:04 PM (#6032604)
derozan to chi for thad, a 1st, and 2 2nds per shams

And 3 years, $85 million. (fully guaranteed)

This is a comically terrible deal. Oh my god.
   3849. SteveF Posted: August 03, 2021 at 04:09 PM (#6032605)
Does Chicago even get out of the first round? Their defense is going to be horrendous.
   3850. asinwreck Posted: August 03, 2021 at 04:09 PM (#6032606)
It's looking like Markkanen is not part of the DeRozan deal: Thad Young, a 1st, two 2nds, and the contract of Al-Farouq Aminu.

I was sure the Bulls would have to use the stretch provision on Aminu.

The Bulls are a completely different team than they were in February. Can Ball, Caruso, and Williams hold up the defense? We shall see.

Still curious to see what happens with Markkanen, and if Coby White gets traded. The Bulls are putting together the kind of roster Karnišovas said he wanted when he took over in 2020. We'll see how well it plays.
   3851. SteveF Posted: August 03, 2021 at 04:12 PM (#6032607)
Maybe they'll limit the minutes DeRozan and Lavine play together.
   3852. jmurph Posted: August 03, 2021 at 04:14 PM (#6032608)
If I could only have one of them next year, no salary considerations, I would probably take Thad Young over DeRozan. To also throw in picks, and also give him $85 million over 3 years, I'm just totally at a loss.
   3853. asinwreck Posted: August 03, 2021 at 04:14 PM (#6032609)
It's possible they stagger DeRozan and LaVine, and also stagger Ball and Caruso.

Billy Donovan's job next year might be as frustrating as last year's attempts to wrest starting minutes out of Carter and White, but it won't be boring.

@wojespn
Full Bulls-Spurs sign-and-trade for DeMar DeRozan on a three-year, $85M deal includes Young, Aminu, the 2025 first-round pick and the 2022 and 2025 seconds to San Antonio.
   3854. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 03, 2021 at 04:15 PM (#6032610)
i think we underrate derozan, he can do a lot. note: by several systems, his primary position last year was power forward
that deal is wild

you know, thad young seems like a spurs kind of guy (that's a compliment)
--
snell to portland
--
hawks reportedly offer collins 5/125
   3855. Hombre Brotani Posted: August 03, 2021 at 04:18 PM (#6032611)
We can add that as a segment to the BTF NBA Podcast, right after my weekly segment on bias. Ha.
I would listen to that podcast. WE SHOULD DO A PODCAST. Everyone else has one.
   3856. JJ1986 Posted: August 03, 2021 at 04:25 PM (#6032613)
Holy duck, Bulls.
   3857. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: August 03, 2021 at 04:30 PM (#6032615)
I like DeRozan as a player, too. He is average-to-good efficiency on fairly high usage, he can pass, and he's not a disaster on defense. He can create his own shot, and he's been pretty durable. Obviously not a perfect player (and $28m is a bit steep), but a good guy to have on pretty much any roster in the league.
   3858. asinwreck Posted: August 03, 2021 at 04:33 PM (#6032616)
He also gets to the line, in contrast to having Markkanen play PF.
   3859. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: August 03, 2021 at 04:35 PM (#6032617)
Podcast segments:

Trade Machine Madness with STIGGLES
Variance Game of the Night
Wolves Woes of the Week with TFTIO and aberg
   3860. aberg Posted: August 03, 2021 at 04:38 PM (#6032619)
It's pretty surprising that they had to pay Derozan almost $30m per year, let alone the other stuff that went into it. Who were they bidding against? Could they really not get this done for 3/60 by waiting? I guess we'll never know.
   3861. JJ1986 Posted: August 03, 2021 at 04:39 PM (#6032620)
I'll trust Shipman to make the argument better, but DeRozan has been a negative player on a mediocre Spurs team for years. Maybe the Spurs backup unit is so much better than other backup units that it's skewing the data, but Murray (last year), Poeltl and White have all been positive players. Gay was a positive the year he started next to DeMar.
   3862. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 03, 2021 at 04:45 PM (#6032621)
The Bulls seem determined to be a low variance back-end playoff team, doomed to be an early exit. I don't know why, but that is what they are striving for, make the playoffs in a bottom half seed and then make an early exit - with no chance of a surprising and unsettling charge through the playoffs. I mean, I guess, as a Wolves fan I maybe shouldn't scorn, but still, why?
   3863. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 03, 2021 at 04:50 PM (#6032623)
not a disaster on d, but pretty not good
   3864. spivey 2 Posted: August 03, 2021 at 04:58 PM (#6032625)
DeRozan's on/off problems date back to Toronto. Maybe there's some lineup stuff there where he'll play a higher proportion without the other star, but it's been a career long thing, one positive plus-minus in his career. Playoff efficiency is way down. Defense is weak. Doesn't space the court. Certainly isn't rebounding like a PF - Spurs were killed on the glass this year.

I think he has value on teams, but mostly as a bench microwave.
   3865. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 03, 2021 at 05:02 PM (#6032626)
THT stays a Laker for 3/32
   3866. JJ1986 Posted: August 03, 2021 at 05:02 PM (#6032627)
Some of those Lowry-without-DeRozan lineups were awesome and they definitely played against the bench units while DeMar played more against starters. In SA, it's like DeRozan and Forbes come out, Mills and Gay come in and the team is all of a sudden good. (Granted, I really don't watch many Spurs games).
   3867. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 03, 2021 at 05:06 PM (#6032628)
I like THT well enough, but that seems like a lot. He can buy dinner for Howard and Anthony on the road.
   3868. Hombre Brotani Posted: August 03, 2021 at 05:11 PM (#6032630)
THT stays a Laker for 3/32
Caruso signed for 4/37. What the hell, man.
   3869. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 03, 2021 at 05:12 PM (#6032631)
Nunn is a laker - 2/10
(So I guess monk might be the minimum or bae)
   3870. tshipman Posted: August 03, 2021 at 05:12 PM (#6032632)
I think the 4th is a team option but don't actually care enough to double-check, the point is fair. I don't think it's great, I just feel like it got a crazy reaction on basketball twitter and I was like ehhhh, definite overpay but not crazy to me.


The thing with Fournier is that there's no need to prioritize him on day 1 of FA. He's an average shooting guard who has an *abysmal* track record in the playoffs.

Picking him up for nearly 20 mm/year is an overpay, and prioritizing him as your top FA signing is a mistake. Like, to be clear, there are not a lot of great options out there, to be very clear, but overpaying Evan Fournier is not the answer. You are not one piece away, and Evan Fournier is not that piece.
   3871. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 03, 2021 at 05:13 PM (#6032633)
If I’m running a team trying to win now, I want Caruso
If I want to win in 2024, I sign THT
   3872. tshipman Posted: August 03, 2021 at 05:15 PM (#6032634)
THT stays a Laker for 3/32


Hate giving below average players more than 10 million. THT might turn into a guy who can be one of your 5 best guys on the court in the Finals, Caruso already is that guy.
   3873. asinwreck Posted: August 03, 2021 at 05:15 PM (#6032635)
The Knicks' talking heads on MSG were pretty thrilled with Fournier last night, but, yeah. Not what you'd hope the team in the biggest market and with the most cap space might do. Will James Dolan issue a statement dissing Kyle Lowry?
   3874. spivey 2 Posted: August 03, 2021 at 05:17 PM (#6032636)
Milwaukee better f'n use their TP-MLE. Does someone know of a good website that is tracking the players who are yet to commit? It's hard to keep track of.
   3875. Hombre Brotani Posted: August 03, 2021 at 05:17 PM (#6032637)
If I’m running a team trying to win now, I want Caruso
If I want to win in 2024, I sign THT
The Lakers' window is today.
   3876. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 03, 2021 at 05:19 PM (#6032638)
Caruso signed for 4/37. What the hell, man.


Here is what I just texted a buddy:

According to what I read, since Caruso was an UFA, that deal would have cost the Lakers 40M in luxury tax money on top of his salary. So, either Jeannie told Rob not to spend it or Rob told Jeannie it wasn't worth it.



I think since THT was a RFA, the tax hit is much less, but I am not sure. Or maybe Jeannie doesn't like recreational marijuana use (and yes, I know about Nunn).
   3877. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 03, 2021 at 05:19 PM (#6032639)
i don't disagree.
of course, i'd push the team to sign both
--
i don't think rfa status changes the tax hit at all.
   3878. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 03, 2021 at 05:25 PM (#6032641)
i don't think rfa status changes the tax hit at all.'


If that is the case, then the Lakers are valuing Caruso differently than wonks are. Caruso has both wonk and old-school "glue guy" support on the blogs. There is pushback from more casual fans and also some noise about Caruso being overvalued as a likable white guy (people are doing wiseass Dellevadova comps).

One thing I would suggest is that Pelinka may think that the key to the defense staying strong is Vogel, and he has young legs to coach up now. Caruso's DBPM spiked under Vogel.

We'll see how it plays out.
   3879. tshipman Posted: August 03, 2021 at 05:27 PM (#6032642)
One thing I would suggest is that Pelinka may think that the key to the defense staying strong is Vogel, and he has young legs to coach up now. Caruso's DBPM spiked under Vogel.


If the Lakers have a good defense next year, it's a miracle and Vogel deserves to be coach of the decade. There is one good defender on that roster, plus LeBron who is ancient now.
   3880. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: August 03, 2021 at 05:28 PM (#6032643)
DeRozan's on/off problems date back to Toronto. Maybe there's some lineup stuff there where he'll play a higher proportion without the other star, but it's been a career long thing, one positive plus-minus in his career. Playoff efficiency is way down. Defense is weak. Doesn't space the court. Certainly isn't rebounding like a PF - Spurs were killed on the glass this year.


??? Am I missing something? DeRozan has a positive +/- (BPM on bb-ref) every year with the Spurs, and among the highest on the team. His last few years with Toronto were positive.

Your points are fair, but I think he's a better player than he was in Toronto (much better shooting, better assist:turnovers), and the Spurs have been missing the playoffs. He doesn't scare you from 3, but he can create shots for himself and others. Rebounding is a problem, especially if he's your PF.
   3881. aberg Posted: August 03, 2021 at 05:30 PM (#6032644)
Here are some sloppy power rankings.

East
Favorites: Brooklyn, Milwaukee (in that order)
Contenders: Philadelphia, Atlanta, Miami
Likely playoff teams: Boston, New York, Chicago
Respectable: Indiana, Charlotte, Orlando, Cleveland (could go down a tier)
Rebuilding/bad: Toronto, Detroit, Washington

West
Favorites: Lakers, Phoenix
Contenders: Utah, Denver, GSW, Clippers (hard to place them until we know Kawhi's contract and recovery)
Likely playoff teams: Dallas, Portland
Respectable: Memphis, New Orleans, Minnesota, San Antonio
Rebuilding/bad: Sacramento, OKC, Houston

   3882. tshipman Posted: August 03, 2021 at 05:34 PM (#6032646)
??? Am I missing something? DeRozan has a positive +/- (BPM on bb-ref) every year with the Spurs, and among the highest on the team. His last few years with Toronto were positive.


BPM is a +/- estimate based on box score stats. His actual +/- is negative and that's what we're talking about, not the estimate.
   3883. Hombre Brotani Posted: August 03, 2021 at 05:35 PM (#6032647)
The Lakers had Bird Rights on Caruso. Plus, given what they just gave THT, I'm not sure where all the savings are going to come from. If they hadn't given THT that contract, I would have said, okay, they where saving up for a full MLE to Patty Mills... except they didn't, so...

It's not like the Lakers are a disaster or anything, but that's the 2012 All-Star Team, and it's not 2012 anymore.
   3884. Mike A Posted: August 03, 2021 at 05:49 PM (#6032651)
If that is the case, then the Lakers are valuing Caruso differently than wonks are.
Wonks love his advanced defensive stats: 8th best defender in 2021 according to RAPTOR and LEBRON. 26th in DRtg. 281st in DRPM (errrr?).

From what I understand, NBA front offices put much less value than the wonks on advanced defensive stats. They think they're too flawed. Whether the wonks are right and the front offices are wrong, I don't really know. Caruso being the 8th best defender in the league does seem a bit...strong. But, hey.
   3885. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: August 03, 2021 at 05:51 PM (#6032652)
how do people feel about the minivan (niang)?


Very good shooter, okay ball handling and playmaking for a bench 4, and was surprisingly good on team defense during the regular season. Awful at basically everything in the playoffs, and I do think the defensive improvement in the regular season is not going to carry over into the playoffs with teams having more time to scout and gameplan. Would guess the offensive issues were more just small sample/getting used to the increased intensity. I would have liked him back on the Jazz, but can't get upset over not thinking he's worth the added tax penalty. And I definitely prefer Gay for the playoffs to him.
   3886. asinwreck Posted: August 03, 2021 at 06:09 PM (#6032658)
Is Schröder going to go back to OKC? What options does he have?
   3887. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: August 03, 2021 at 06:18 PM (#6032659)
Do Knicks still have cap space? I don't think he'd be a bad flier for them as long as they're not on the hook for more than one year.
   3888. asinwreck Posted: August 03, 2021 at 06:46 PM (#6032661)
Something like 1/8? Maybe. Having him on the Knicks might keep Thibs from wearing Rose down as the starting point guard.
   3889. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: August 03, 2021 at 07:43 PM (#6032667)
From what I understand, NBA front offices put much less value than the wonks on advanced defensive stats. They think they're too flawed. Whether the wonks are right and the front offices are wrong, I don't really know. Caruso being the 8th best defender in the league does seem a bit...strong. But, hey.
people outside the NBA use statistics to describe what happened in the past and to predict what will happen in the future, whereas people inside the NBA have the ability to effect what happens in the present.
   3890. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 03, 2021 at 08:17 PM (#6032674)
Cervo, that’s more or less my take on niang as well (2/6.7 to phi)

George hill going to Milwaukee
   3891. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 03, 2021 at 08:18 PM (#6032675)
3889/steagles - true
   3892. Hombre Brotani Posted: August 03, 2021 at 08:19 PM (#6032676)
Dennis Schröder is trending on NBA twitter because he added "PG for the LA Lakers #17" back on his Instagram profile. Not only are people mocking him, but his name is trending as "Schroeder." So much disrespect.

What would a Schröder S&T look like now? Anyone left?
   3893. JJ1986 Posted: August 03, 2021 at 09:01 PM (#6032684)
Dallas can use Schroeder, right? What's their cap situation?
   3894. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 03, 2021 at 09:02 PM (#6032685)
markieff morris to mia for the minimum
nathan knight to minnesota on a 2 way deal. i thought he'd stay in atlanta, huh
jock landale, 2 yr, san antonio

landale is kind of slow and might struggle to defend in space, but has always been good around the basket and has added a three point stroke (39% in almost 5 attempts a game last year). reportedly been turning down euro money because he wanted an nba shot.
   3895. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 03, 2021 at 09:11 PM (#6032687)
dallas is over the cap, but that's partly because of cap holds. dunno how much they could free up.
   3896. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 03, 2021 at 09:13 PM (#6032690)
So, according to a guy named Yossi Gozlan, who works for Hoops Hype and does cap stuff, the Lakers would have had an 81M luxury tax bill with Caruso. With what they actually did, it is 42M.

Total salary and tax with Caruso: 247M with the MLE, and mins:
Actual with what they did: 197M

The guy runs charts for all the teams as they make moves; GSW is at 288M with Curry, for example. If you Google the guy's name and "Twitter" you can see it. The guy only has 3454 followers, but one of his charts was embedded in a fan post on the Nunn signing for the Lakers SB Nation affiliate which is a huge traffic site with paid writers. Had they used the full MLE, it would have been 207M. They gave Nunn 5M even. Monk took the minimum. I cannot vouch for its accuracy, but I now know where the "Caruso costs 40M extra" came from in LakerLand.
   3897. JJ1986 Posted: August 03, 2021 at 09:26 PM (#6032693)
How many white guys are the Spurs going to sign?
   3898. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 03, 2021 at 09:27 PM (#6032694)
i buy the caruso could cost them 40m part, sure.
the way the tax works is: it kicks in at a threshold of 136.606m, with the rate increasing the farther you get from that threshold. $1.50 for each dollar for the first 5 mil over that level if you're not a repeat offender, increasing from there - so that, say, the 20,000,001th dollar over the threshold is taxed at $3.75. if you are a repeat offender - add an extra dollar-for-dollar penalty.

so, i don't know where LA is exactly? but that # passes a sniff test.

(note - the league gave taxpaying teams a bit of a break during the pandemic, i'm sure that's over)
   3899. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 03, 2021 at 09:30 PM (#6032696)
(here's more from larry c's wonderful cba faq - i've read the actual cba and i've used his faq ... and i'll stick with the latter when possible)
   3900. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 03, 2021 at 09:33 PM (#6032698)
Am I wrong or have a lot of Australians played for SA specifically?
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