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Friday, May 21, 2021

NBA 2021 Playoffs+ thread

I estimate there are maybe 10-12 Primates left on this site, and they all post in the NBA thread.

Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: May 21, 2021 at 01:07 PM | 4447 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: clutch, narratives, nba, off topic, redemption

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   3901. JJ1986 Posted: August 03, 2021 at 09:34 PM (#6032699)
Using the capulator, if you re-sign Hardaway at his reported number and Boban at a minimum, Dallas can get under the cap enough to basically use capspace instead of the MLE to sign Bullock and have $6-7 million left over. They could maybe fit in Schroder by dumping Trey Burke too.
   3902. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 03, 2021 at 09:36 PM (#6032700)

If the Lakers have a good defense next year, it's a miracle and Vogel deserves to be coach of the decade. There is one good defender on that roster, plus LeBron who is ancient now



Vogel will be working with a four-guard rotation of Westbrook, Horton-Tucker, Monk, and Nunn. On the wings, Kuzma and Matthews are out; Bazemore, Ariza, and Ellington are in. I think that Vogel may be able to cobble together a perimeter D out of that group. It may be that KCP and Caruso are extraordinary defensive talents and that the team defense will crater without them. Given Vogel's track record as a D coach and given that the team had good defensive metrics last year even with some personnel changes, that seems pretty unlikely to me, but we will find out.

To be clear, if I had Pelinka's ear, I would have told him to try to get Jeannie to cough up the tax money for Caruso (if those numbers are correct; I have not tried to verify). But I think that it is the same as it ever was: If James and Davis are healthy and dominant, then the Lakers can win the championship with the projected roster. If they are not, then they can't. I do not think that we know yet whether the decision to let Caruso walk changes that significantly. YMMV (and for some, clearly does).

   3903. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 03, 2021 at 09:39 PM (#6032701)
There is also the switch from Markieff Morris to Carmelo Anthony, so it may be the old death by 1000 cuts thing, I suppose. Don't know if Morris has a good rep on D.
   3904. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 03, 2021 at 09:53 PM (#6032703)
whiteside to the jazz. he was pretty, pretty bad last year but should fit the jazz scheme, right?
   3905. Mike A Posted: August 03, 2021 at 09:54 PM (#6032704)
I think the Laker defense will be alright. Bazemore is a good defender, though he's getting up there (32yo), like pretty much the whole Laker roster. They're going to need some luck to get those old men to the playoffs intact.

As a side, reminder that Schroder turned down 84 million. Ouch.
   3906. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 03, 2021 at 09:57 PM (#6032706)
markieff - decent rep, i think
anthony is a consensus sieve, right?
   3907. 57i66135 right now is attacking rest Posted: August 03, 2021 at 09:57 PM (#6032707)
whiteside to the jazz. he was pretty, pretty bad last year but should fit the jazz scheme, right?
i look forward to his DPOY candidacy next season.
   3908. spivey 2 Posted: August 03, 2021 at 10:16 PM (#6032710)
Caruso and KCP seemed like more than just system defenders. I was impressed with their on-ball defense. But we will see.

I understand with the luxury tax and repeater tax, at some point many ownership groups draw the line. It's just interesting to me that they gave THT the money and not Caruso, given their window.
   3909. spivey 2 Posted: August 03, 2021 at 10:19 PM (#6032712)
Miami - I'm not sure how good they'll be, but they certainly are going to be no fun to play in the playoffs. They've got a lot of physical guys who play on the edge of physical and dirty.
   3910. Hombre Brotani Posted: August 03, 2021 at 10:38 PM (#6032717)
anthony is a consensus sieve, right?
As a defender, he's a very good stand-still shooter.
   3911. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 03, 2021 at 10:42 PM (#6032718)
I was impressed with their on-ball defense


You may be right. One thing I will be looking at with the 21/22 Lakers is whether/how much coaching can affect that. THT has size, youth--they may think he can be a really good on-ball backcourt guy immediately.

markieff - decent rep, i think
anthony is a consensus sieve, right?


Anthony and Nunn are the two moves I am not pretty much OK with, for totally different reasons. But I certainly can't blame James and Anthony for wanting to play together in this situation.

I have always liked George Hill's game, but he is 35 now, so I can see why the 76ers decided to let him go.
   3912. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 03, 2021 at 10:47 PM (#6032720)
I found out today that THT is a Klutch client. So is KCP, as I think most people know.
   3913. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 03, 2021 at 11:03 PM (#6032722)
The 247M assumes that they are paying both THT and Caruso, which is what most Lakers fans wanted, so if they had paid Caruso, rather than THT, that changes, bringing the numbers close together. The 197 is based on the actual roster as of today (it will go up a little; they have supposedly decided that Jared Dudley is worth it to them as a locker room guy).

So it appears that they decided that they were going to match pretty much anything on THT, but wanted to use the MLE and minimums on Monk and Nunn instead of adding Caruso to the balance sheet as well and triggering stiffer tax penalties.

   3914. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 03, 2021 at 11:22 PM (#6032727)
Philly not keeping Hill was the right move, as he was making 8 figures with a mostly unguaranteed deal. What surprised me is that it was designed to be a trade chip at this point and that they didn’t find a deal.

Speaking of agents, I learned that Graham and Zion share one.

   3915. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 04, 2021 at 12:22 AM (#6032732)
Hollinger:

We’d all been waiting for it … that one moment when a free agent deal comes through that just leaves us absolutely slack-jawed.

Usually the strongest bursts of irrational exuberance come right out of the gate, but not this year. Even with a historic tsunami of contract agreements in the opening hours of free agency, none bowled us over as a truly stupendous overpay.

That is until the Bulls made a deal for DeMar DeRozan. This was the moment we’d been waiting for, and while we were staring expectantly at the Knicks and Kangz to entertain us, it instead was the Bulls who came out of left field and surprised us
.
   3916. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 04, 2021 at 12:34 AM (#6032733)
Miami - I'm not sure how good they'll be, but they certainly are going to be no fun to play in the playoffs. They've got a lot of physical guys who play on the edge of physical and dirty.


Pat Riley is interested in subscribing to your newsletter.

   3917. JJ1986 Posted: August 04, 2021 at 07:17 AM (#6032736)
I normally would pay no notice to these things, but I am curious after drafting for them. Can the Hornets get a trade exception for the Graham S&T if they start under the cap, but the exception would put them over?
   3918. spivey 2 Posted: August 04, 2021 at 08:44 AM (#6032740)
George Hill is getting toasty, but I'd rather have his toast than Jeff Teague's.
   3919. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 04, 2021 at 10:05 AM (#6032748)
I am SHOCKED

Kemba to be bought out by OKC, join Knicks
   3920. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 04, 2021 at 10:06 AM (#6032750)
Collins extends at 5/125 with yr 5 a popt
   3921. spivey 2 Posted: August 04, 2021 at 10:08 AM (#6032751)
Wow, wonder how much Kemba money gave up for that?

John Collins resigns with ATL for 5/125. He's improved as a shooter and defender, imo. He was always gonna get this kind of money.
   3922. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 04, 2021 at 10:10 AM (#6032752)
Charlotte could get a trade exception for Graham, made smaller because of BYC, if they remain over the cap - yeah
   3923. jmurph Posted: August 04, 2021 at 10:16 AM (#6032754)
Wow that is actually surprising to me on Kemba. Good for him, Kemba in New York is a fun story.
   3924. jmurph Posted: August 04, 2021 at 10:20 AM (#6032756)
Also for the record Kemba is not toast, he finished the season fine. The health is an issue and sounds like it will be for the rest of his career (although who knows), but he can still play.
   3925. asinwreck Posted: August 04, 2021 at 10:20 AM (#6032757)
Kemba and Fournier on the Knicks give Randle a lot of help on offense.

Interesting roundtable at The Athletic [$] on what the Bulls did. Sam Vecenie's conclusion captures the sentiments of Bulls fans still traumatized by the past four years.

I wouldn’t have made the DeRozan move, but I just can’t get all that upset about it when all of their moves this summer will result in them being so much better than they were a season ago. It’s more than I would have been comfortable paying, but it’s also not my money and the Bulls should be a fun team to watch now, and a pretty competent one. Now, they just need to hope they win this year so LaVine stays happy and sticks around to grow with this core. Because if that doesn’t happen, they’re screwed. That genuinely puts a lot of pressure on this situation.
   3926. PJ Martinez Posted: August 04, 2021 at 10:49 AM (#6032762)
Yeah, I like Kemba for New York and would love to see him do well there. Walker/Fournier/Barrett/Randle/Robinson, with Noel and Quickley off the bench, seems like a decent lineup, particularly if Thibs has them playing solid defense (and if they stay health, of course). I don't see them improving on last year, but maybe they can sustain some of their organizational momentum.
   3927. spivey 2 Posted: August 04, 2021 at 10:50 AM (#6032764)
My problem with the Derozan deal is 3 fold:

1. Who were they bidding against? There weren't a lot of teams with money to match this.
2. They gave up a first for the right to pay this much.
3. Does a team that has Vucevic and Lavine need another ball dominant guy who doesn't defend or do much off ball? I think the answer is no. I legitimately think Thad Young may have been a better fit, straight up.
   3928. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: August 04, 2021 at 10:54 AM (#6032765)
Yeah, I like Kemba for New York and would love to see him do well there. Walker/Fournier/Barrett/Randle/Robinson, with Noel and Quickley off the bench, seems like a decent lineup, particularly if Thibs has them playing solid defense (and if they stay health, of course). I don't see them improving on last year, but maybe they can sustain some of their organizational momentum.

Don't forget 43MM man, Derrick Rose.
   3929. jmurph Posted: August 04, 2021 at 10:57 AM (#6032766)
I legitimately think Thad Young may have been a better fit, straight up.

I absolutely think he's the better fit. But even if you'd prefer DeRozan straight up, adding in the money and the picks, it's just not even close.
   3930. . . . . . . Posted: August 04, 2021 at 11:01 AM (#6032767)
Eh. Rose isn’t toast he’s just low minutes. He fits right in with that team. Once you know they were getting Kemba it all makes sense.

I don’t mind the Knicks moves? They’re not like optimal wins/$$ leverage but they’re not close to championship caliber anyway. Rebuilding the brand with a fun decent team is the right play.
   3931. 57i66135 right now is attacking rest Posted: August 04, 2021 at 11:04 AM (#6032768)
10 years ago, the bulls and knicks thought they were getting some combination of lebron, bosh or wade.


now, this.
   3932. PJ Martinez Posted: August 04, 2021 at 11:12 AM (#6032770)
If the Thunder were in a bigger market, would Adam Silver tell Sam Presti to knock it off?
   3933. jmurph Posted: August 04, 2021 at 11:14 AM (#6032771)
If the Thunder were in a bigger market, would Adam Silver tell Sam Presti to knock it off?

Benching Horford to tank and buying out Kemba with two years left is, off the top of my head, worse than anything the Sixers did (pre-Colangelo).
   3934. 57i66135 right now is attacking rest Posted: August 04, 2021 at 11:18 AM (#6032772)
Benching Horford to tank and buying out Kemba with two years left is, off the top of my head, worse than anything the Sixers did (pre-Colangelo).
i don't know, that 2014 draft for the sixers was absolutely godawful (at the time hinkie was fired)
   3935. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 04, 2021 at 11:25 AM (#6032774)
Bulls also add Tony Bradley for the minimum, which is a good pickup at the price

Magic keep Mo Wagner on a 2 year deal, he’ll team up with his younger brother Franz
   3936. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: August 04, 2021 at 11:44 AM (#6032779)
A few thoughts:

Does Schroder end up back in OKC on a 1-year deal, taking Kemba's spot and replacing the money they saved from the buyout? Seems like the easiest path to guaranteed major playing time, followed by a likely mid-season trade to a better team dealing with an injury or poor performance.

Surprised that Malik Monk, Otto Porter, and Tony Bradley, among others, signed for the minimum. Contracts below the full MLE level can feel pretty random and based on circumstances unrelated to player quality.

The DeRozan deal seems to me like the Bulls decided on a course of action (DeRozan sign-and-trade) that may have been defensible in the abstract, but then the other parties recognized the Bulls were all-in and crushed them in the negotiation. Once sending Markkanen to San Antonio in exchange for DeRozan fell through, maybe they shouldn't have fought so hard to save the deal by throwing in a 1st rounder so the Spurs would take Aminu and giving DeRozan roughly as much money as a Thad + Aminu package would support.
   3937. PJ Martinez Posted: August 04, 2021 at 11:53 AM (#6032780)
Surprised that Malik Monk, Otto Porter, and Tony Bradley, among others, signed for the minimum. Contracts below the full MLE level can feel pretty random and based on circumstances unrelated to player quality.
Porter reportedly turned down more money elsewhere to sign with Golden State. Not sure about Monk. I confess I don't really know who Tony Bradley is.
   3938. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 04, 2021 at 12:06 PM (#6032785)
Bradley was a late first round pick of the Jazz out of UNC who’s kind of an old school center, having failed to add 21st century skills. Jazz eventually shipped him to Philly, from there to OKC. He’s good at what he’s good at (rebounding, rolling) and still relatively young. Needs to make a leap defensively.
   3939. PJ Martinez Posted: August 04, 2021 at 12:09 PM (#6032786)
Got it. Speaking of centers, Kanter just signed with the Celtics, apparently, which... fine, I guess? Kanter's fun to root for.
   3940. jmurph Posted: August 04, 2021 at 12:12 PM (#6032787)
The cycle of big men transactions that the Celtics have engaged in since Horford left is extremely depressing.
   3941. aberg Posted: August 04, 2021 at 12:24 PM (#6032789)
John Collins resigns with ATL for 5/125. He's improved as a shooter and defender, imo. He was always gonna get this kind of money.


This one strikes me as one of better 20m+ AAV deals. Obviously impacted by RFA status. I'm sure there are other teams who would be happy to pay him that or a bit more, but figured Atlanta would match or at least tie up their cap sheet for a couple days.

The DeRozan deal seems to me like the Bulls decided on a course of action (DeRozan sign-and-trade) that may have been defensible in the abstract, but then the other parties recognized the Bulls were all-in and crushed them in the negotiation. Once sending Markkanen to San Antonio in exchange for DeRozan fell through, maybe they shouldn't have fought so hard to save the deal by throwing in a 1st rounder so the Spurs would take Aminu and giving DeRozan roughly as much money as a Thad + Aminu package would support.


To add to that, if they had just given this money to Lauri and saved the pick/Thad, wouldn't they be in a way better spot?

Magic keep Mo Wagner on a 2 year deal, he’ll team up with his younger brother Franz


Mo and Franz are gonna pump [clap] you up.
   3942. tshipman Posted: August 04, 2021 at 12:27 PM (#6032790)
Benching Horford to tank and buying out Kemba with two years left is, off the top of my head, worse than anything the Sixers did (pre-Colangelo).


It's kind of shameless to be honest.

I think that because Presti doesn't give interviews, and doesn't piss off agents, he gets away with it.
   3943. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: August 04, 2021 at 12:34 PM (#6032791)
The cycle of big men transactions that the Celtics have engaged in since Horford left is extremely depressing.


Hey, Horford's back now!
   3944. SteveF Posted: August 04, 2021 at 12:44 PM (#6032792)
Kanter is a good signing. You know what he can and can't do. He knows what he can and can't do. You can use him accordingly. Plus, the Celtics need those center minutes soaked up. Even the most wild-eyed, optimistic Celtics fan can't hope to get more than 20-25 minutes out of Horford or Williams, and both those guys will likely miss 10-20 games (ideally not all at the same time).

I'm not sure I really get the waiting for Beal thing. If you plucked Beal off the Wizards and put him on the Celtics right now, are they even tier 1? They'd still need Tatum and Brown to make another leap, especially with respect to their passing/playmaking.

(Not that I'd have handed out any of the contracts that got handed out. Hard pass on Fournier.)
   3945. jmurph Posted: August 04, 2021 at 12:48 PM (#6032793)
This one strikes me as one of better 20m+ AAV deals. Obviously impacted by RFA status. I'm sure there are other teams who would be happy to pay him that or a bit more, but figured Atlanta would match or at least tie up their cap sheet for a couple days.

Agree, I thought he'd end up getting more.
   3946. aberg Posted: August 04, 2021 at 12:52 PM (#6032795)
It's kind of shameless to be honest.

I think that because Presti doesn't give interviews, and doesn't piss off agents, he gets away with it.


It's starting to seem like OKC isn't a great market for basketball.
   3947. aberg Posted: August 04, 2021 at 12:56 PM (#6032796)
Have you all been following the implosion of the Syracuse women's basketball program? I just wanted to highlight, once again, that Syracuse and everything connected to it is rotten to its core.
   3948. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 04, 2021 at 01:46 PM (#6032802)
I think adding Walker makes the Knicks pretty interesting.
   3949. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 04, 2021 at 01:51 PM (#6032803)
Surprised that Malik Monk
,

Monk apparently had some attitude issues in CHA, according to LakerHonks after the signing. But yes, I thought that he would at least get part of the MLE. The Lakers gave Nunn 5M.
   3950. tshipman Posted: August 04, 2021 at 02:03 PM (#6032808)
Not that anyone cares, but the Kemba thing has to be tampering, doesn't it?

Like, Kemba doesn't agree to a buyout without knowing that the Knicks would be offering 8mm/year.
   3951. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 04, 2021 at 02:31 PM (#6032812)
I am a Beal supporter and I think he would make a pretty big difference for Boston.
   3952. 57i66135 right now is attacking rest Posted: August 04, 2021 at 02:38 PM (#6032816)
Not that anyone cares, but the Kemba thing has to be tampering, doesn't it?

Like, Kemba doesn't agree to a buyout without knowing that the Knicks would be offering 8mm/year.
nah. it doesn't take tampering for kemba to figure out that he'll have a soft landing spot somewhere.

the surprising thing is that OKC agreed to buy him out now, instead of trying to rehab his value so they can flip him at the deadline.
   3953. 57i66135 right now is attacking rest Posted: August 04, 2021 at 02:39 PM (#6032817)
I would listen to that podcast. WE SHOULD DO A PODCAST. Everyone else has one.
loud wrong, with tshipman and 743 57i6, exclusively on the 10-12 primates podcast network
   3954. CFBF's Results are Certified Posted: August 04, 2021 at 02:46 PM (#6032818)
I feel like a podcast for this thread has to be called "Three-Point Variance." Though I guess we might get sued by Marvel.
   3955. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 04, 2021 at 02:55 PM (#6032820)
3947/aberg- yes and yes

I’ve had my own fake podcast for years: soda speak, about snacks and soft drinks

3952/stig on kemba - my take too

   3956. tshipman Posted: August 04, 2021 at 02:57 PM (#6032821)
I would be willing to bet that the $$ Kemba gives back is going to match up perfectly with the contract he gets from the Knicks in a bizarre coincidence.
   3957. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: August 04, 2021 at 03:02 PM (#6032823)
I do feel like there needs to be a recurring segment on why anybody would follow the Wolves.
   3958. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 04, 2021 at 03:03 PM (#6032824)
recurring segment


Yes, the Wolves would definitely be one of the recurring segments.
   3959. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: August 04, 2021 at 03:04 PM (#6032825)
The Wolves really are just a recurring segment, aren't they?

   3960. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: August 04, 2021 at 03:05 PM (#6032826)
I'm not even from Minnesota!
   3961. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 04, 2021 at 03:07 PM (#6032827)
From? I am not. Living in? Sigh. Yup.
   3962. SteveF Posted: August 04, 2021 at 03:08 PM (#6032828)
I’ve had my own fake podcast for years: soda speak, about snacks and soft drinks

Are you Evan or Lyle?
   3963. 57i66135 right now is attacking rest Posted: August 04, 2021 at 03:10 PM (#6032830)
if i was a caeser salad, with tftio and mouse, exclusively on the 10-12 primates podcast network
   3964. 57i66135 right now is attacking rest Posted: August 04, 2021 at 03:15 PM (#6032831)
ability to impact winning, with moses and derk, exclusively on the 10-12 primates podcast network
   3965. spivey 2 Posted: August 04, 2021 at 03:24 PM (#6032833)
I would be willing to bet that the $$ Kemba gives back is going to match up perfectly with the contract he gets from the Knicks in a bizarre coincidence.


I'd pay closer attention, then. And also be pretty surprised at the buyout, as that's just a ton of money to eat.

   3966. Mike A Posted: August 04, 2021 at 03:27 PM (#6032835)
Happy to see John Collins back on what seems to be a reasonable deal for both sides. I thought he'd get a max offer somewhere like San Antonio, but that was not to be the case. Hawks get to (mostly) run it back, with some improvement to the bench.

The Solomon Hill signing was a stretch, but it was worth it just to see Solomon tweet 'who?' when Wojo broke the news.

Looking over all of the developments, is there any team that substantially improved in the past few days? There seems to be a lot of teams that got a little better, but I don't see any huge leaps forward. I suppose that's the effect of a weak FA class.

Reddit is saying the Bulls and Heat are the big winners, but I'm not as convinced.
   3967. 57i66135 right now is attacking rest Posted: August 04, 2021 at 03:37 PM (#6032836)
Looking over all of the developments, is there any team that substantially improved in the past few days? There seems to be a lot of teams that got a little better, but I don't see any huge leaps forward. I suppose that's the effect of a weak FA class.

"does anything we're doing matter?"

"no."

"good talk."
   3968. jmurph Posted: August 04, 2021 at 03:40 PM (#6032837)
Quinton Mayo @RealQuintonMayo
Hearing the S&T that would land Spencer Dinwiddie in Washington, from Brooklyn, could happen as soon as today/tomorrow. It’s expected to be a multi-team trade, possibly expanding across 6-8 different franchises (thus the reason things are taking so long)

This is delightful and I look forward to the details.
   3969. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 04, 2021 at 03:40 PM (#6032838)
It all depends on team goals. If the Bulls goal was to lock in as the 5th to 7th playoff seed for the next five years then I think they did a great job and are a real winner.
   3970. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: August 04, 2021 at 03:41 PM (#6032839)
This is delightful and I look forward to the details.

8? Can we get 10?
   3971. aberg Posted: August 04, 2021 at 03:44 PM (#6032840)

"does anything we're doing matter?"

"no."

"good talk."


CIA Superior: What did we learn, Palmer?

CIA Officer: I don't know, sir.

CIA Superior: I don't ######' know either. I guess we learned not to do it again.

CIA Officer: Yes, sir.

CIA Superior: I'm ###### if I know what we did.

CIA Officer: Yes, sir, it's, uh, hard to say

CIA Superior: Jesus ####### Christ.
   3972. asinwreck Posted: August 04, 2021 at 03:52 PM (#6032841)
Tremendous film.


@wojespn
Mike D'Antoni will become a coaching consultant to Willie Green's new staff in New Orleans, sources tell ESPN.
   3973. tshipman Posted: August 04, 2021 at 04:15 PM (#6032846)
Weird that D'Antoni ends up in New Orleans.

***

I don't like any of the big offseasons basically.

Miami--I get the idea, but man that's a lot of risk. Are you really just one Kyle Lowry away?
Phoenix--just a terrible extension for CP3. I don't think they're a real contender and lowkey, CP wasn't *that* great for them on the court. (Maybe he changed the culture, blah blah blah)
Bulls--I mean, if the idea was get to the playoffs at all costs, okay, I guess? They're probably the favorite for the 8 seed. The core of LaVine/Vucevic/DeRozan were all net negatives on the court last year. Hard to see how putting a bunch of poor defenders and shot finishers together makes them improve.
Lakers--took a huge gamble on Westbrook being a different player. Everything else is pretty decent, but that's a pretty big "everything else" when your lineups all look better without a 40mm player
Knicks--I kind of get their offseason, in that they have a bunch of guys you could reasonably claim are neutral salaries that you can move if a star becomes available. It's super dependent on that gameplan working out.
New Orleans--I like the Satoransky pickup, but it looks like they want to play Devonte Graham instead, which is bad.


Who had a good offseason, I guess?
GSW? Otto Porter is a good gamble.

   3974. spivey 2 Posted: August 04, 2021 at 04:30 PM (#6032850)
I like Brooklyn's offseason a good amount.

They didn't need to do a ton, but retaining Brown and Griffin on cheap deals, getting Mills for the MLE, James Johnson has given Giannis problems before and is an ok guy at the of the bench. Now they may get something back for the Dinwiddie S&T.

I think Atlanta, Golden State, Dallas have been solid. Not mind blowing, but solid.

Who gets Danny Green and a couple of the last guys will also impact where I land on things. Like, if Milwaukee gets Danny Green, I like their offseason. If the Lakers get Danny Green, it helps them a good amount.
   3975. billyshears Posted: August 04, 2021 at 04:34 PM (#6032851)
I don’t mind the Knicks moves? They’re not like optimal wins/$$ leverage but they’re not close to championship caliber anyway. Rebuilding the brand with a fun decent team is the right play.


Apparently the final year of each of the Fournier, Rose, Burks and Noel contracts are team-options (or non-guaranteed, or partially non-guaranteed - the reporting is somewhat unclear), which changes the calculus on these deals a decent bit.

I don't think, in the NBA in this moment, there is any defined and reasonably replicable approach to building a championship contender. Most of the asset-accumulation, analyst approved, "smart" moves don't amount to much of anything. In this vein, I get teams recklessly hurdling themselves towards upper mediocrity and hoping they get lucky, rather than patiently being content with lower mediocrity while making transactions that only marginally lower the quantum of luck required for the team to become really good.
   3976. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: August 04, 2021 at 04:41 PM (#6032853)
I like the Jazz' offseason. Conley re-signed for less than I expected and would easily take his deal over Lowry's and probably CP3's depending on the guarantees. Gay is old but I trust him more than Niang in the playoffs. Whiteside is...bad but Favors was washed too so it's whatever. They still really need another good perimeter defender, even if Gay is an improvement from what they had.
   3977. tshipman Posted: August 04, 2021 at 05:02 PM (#6032854)
yeah, Brooklyn's moves were modest but good. Mills is a great fit.

I like the Jazz' offseason. Conley re-signed for less than I expected and would easily take his deal over Lowry's and probably CP3's depending on the guarantees. Gay is old but I trust him more than Niang in the playoffs. Whiteside is...bad but Favors was washed too so it's whatever. They still really need another good perimeter defender, even if Gay is an improvement from what they had.


Jazz had to pay a FRP to get rid of a guy they signed to the MLE last season. That's terrible. They gave big money to Conley, who is at least partially washed. Not great. Hassan Whiteside is involved. Rudy Gay doesn't make up for all of that.
   3978. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: August 04, 2021 at 05:13 PM (#6032856)
The Favors move sucks, but the problem was the dumb deal last offseason (made even worse by drafting a center in the first).

Conley has injury problems, but he had a great year. If he's washed then 90% of the league is washed.
   3979. tshipman Posted: August 04, 2021 at 05:14 PM (#6032857)
If he's washed then 90% of the league is washed.


90% of the league's 34 year olds, are indeed washed.
   3980. aberg Posted: August 04, 2021 at 05:16 PM (#6032858)
Phoenix--just a terrible extension for CP3. I don't think they're a real contender and lowkey, CP wasn't *that* great for them on the court. (Maybe he changed the culture, blah blah blah)


Year 4 is non-guaranteed, I believe. That ends up being the same deal Lowry got, basically. If that's the case, do you give yourself 1-2 years of cap hell in exchange for 1-2 years of contention? I think it goes back to whether you think this team that was just up 2-0 in the Finals is actually a contender. They had a very good regular season, then made the finals by beating LAL without Davis, Denver without Murray, LAC without Kawhi. When I did those rough power rankings yesterday, I had them in that tier that's kind of a coinflip to get out of the first round. I think that's probably worth it since they couldn't spend that money on anything else.

Just out of curiosity, what would you have done with Paul/what could Phoenix have done to make you like their offseason?
   3981. aberg Posted: August 04, 2021 at 05:17 PM (#6032859)
Maybe the playoffs count more, but Conley did not play as a washed player in the regular season. Maybe he is a washed 34 yo who got lucky for 6 straight months. I would bet against that.
   3982. 57i66135 right now is attacking rest Posted: August 04, 2021 at 05:22 PM (#6032860)
90% of the league's 34 year olds, are indeed washed.
isn't favors still just 27 years old?

eta: oh, conley. nevermind.
   3983. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: August 04, 2021 at 05:25 PM (#6032861)

Maybe the playoffs count more, but Conley did not play as a washed player in the regular season. Maybe he is a washed 34 yo who got lucky for 6 straight months. I would bet against that.


He was also excellent against Memphis in the playoffs anyway. The health is a very big concern, but not like the Jazz had any real options to improve the team by letting him go.
   3984. asinwreck Posted: August 04, 2021 at 05:28 PM (#6032862)
@wojespn
ESPN Sources: After medical consultation, seven-time All-Star F LaMarcus Aldridge is seriously considering a return to the NBA this season. Aldridge retired with Brooklyn in mid-April with heart concerns, but is exploring the possibility of resuming his 15-year career.
I hope this means his issues with the irregular heartbeat have been resolved. That's scary stuff.
   3985. aberg Posted: August 04, 2021 at 05:30 PM (#6032864)
I think last year's playoff weirdness comes down to two things:

1. It was a compressed season and short offseason with lots of weird protocols and that all considered to an uptick in wear-and-tear injuries. The injuries, especially in the playoffs, created more variance than usual.
2. For at least a decade, you had to have Lebron or the Splash Bros to be a contender. They're getting old, so the bar to be a contender is slightly lower.

If we all spent a decade getting used to what a contender looks like, and the bar has moved a bit, it is going to take time to recalibrate.
   3986. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: August 04, 2021 at 05:30 PM (#6032865)
Jazz also get Eric Paschall for Memphis' protected 2nd round pick. It's probably mostly about getting one of Donovan's best friends on the team, but (without having seen much of the Warriors the last couple years) seems like there's a bit of upside as a bench player for Paschall?

@BobbyMarks42
Good description on how rigorous the repeater tax is:

GSW tax bill

Before: $184.8M
After: $172.9M

Moving off of $1.8M in salary saves $12M


and the reason the Warriors are doing it
   3987. tshipman Posted: August 04, 2021 at 05:34 PM (#6032867)
Just out of curiosity, what would you have done with Paul/what could Phoenix have done to make you like their offseason?


My issues with Phoenix are:
1. They were incredibly lucky with health/performance last year. Basically their whole team overperformed vs. expectations, and no one got hurt. Their top 7 guys all played 60 games.
2. CP3 wasn't actually that big of a part of that! He was a net negative in the playoffs, and only a light positive in the regular season. Cameron Payne was a higher net positive than he was, for instance, in the regular season.
3. If you're freeing up 40 million dollars, you can find some better options. You could have spent half that amount on Lonzo, for instance.
4. Broadly speaking, they don't seem to understand what made them good, and they don't seem to understand how good they actually were.


Maybe the playoffs count more, but Conley did not play as a washed player in the regular season. Maybe he is a washed 34 yo who got lucky for 6 straight months. I would bet against that.


Last year was good, the year before was not. The calendar doesn't look good.
   3988. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: August 04, 2021 at 05:48 PM (#6032869)
https://twitter.com/Kylypso/status/1422580885111513103

It almost feels like I'm living in Utah again.
   3989. Thok Posted: August 04, 2021 at 06:29 PM (#6032875)
So the Lakers can run out a lineup of five likely Hall of Famers in Howard, Davis, LeBron, Anthony, and Westbrook. Is that lineup playable at all and how does it function?
   3990. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 04, 2021 at 06:59 PM (#6032879)
3989,

I told a buddy today that I could see Vogel running that 5 out there Opening Night, which I would oppose. I think that Vogel will start Howard with the big 3, and I think that Bazemore will probably start out of the gate as the 5th guy. THT was .282 from the arc as I have said several times.

That lineup would have been cool in the 2013 ASG. Now--wouldn't use it. Anthony should basically back up LeBron and play 10-14 minutes a game as a Stretchy 4 IMO. I do not think that Vogel will do it that way. Anthony was at .409 from 3 and .890 from the line last year, to his credit. .385 and .815 the year before. On a related note, one thing I like about Nunn and Monk is that they hit their FTs.
   3991. tshipman Posted: August 04, 2021 at 07:25 PM (#6032882)
The saddest part of Carmelo's decline has been his complete inability to finish nowadays. Melo used to be a high volume, high percentage finisher around the basket. That seems to have completely collapsed.
   3992. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: August 04, 2021 at 07:25 PM (#6032883)
The Dinwiddie thing ended up being somewhat of a damp squib.
   3993. jmurph Posted: August 04, 2021 at 07:29 PM (#6032884)
I’m really impressed with what the Wiz pulled off going back to the Wall trade. Not a title contender obviously, but that team was hopeless and now they have a bunch of actual NBA players.

Getting from where they are to the contender tier will be extremely difficult, too. Might not even happen, but they’re in a much better place.
   3994. 57i66135 right now is attacking rest Posted: August 04, 2021 at 07:37 PM (#6032887)
Getting from where they are to the contender tier will be extremely difficult, too. Might not even happen, but they’re in a much better place.
the wizards ended last season on a 17-6 run, mostly on the back of westbrook putting up 23/14/14 per game over that span.
   3995. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 04, 2021 at 07:39 PM (#6032888)
Yeah, a buddy of mine who is pro-Westbrook pointed out those numbers to me.
   3996. tshipman Posted: August 04, 2021 at 08:02 PM (#6032890)
Here's the final deal:

Breakdown
Washington Wizards        Los Angeles Lakers      Brooklyn Nets         Indiana Pacers         San Antonio Spurs
Kyle Kuzma                Russell Westbrook       2nd Round Pick 
(2024Isaiah Jackson (#22) Chandler Hutchison
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope  -                       2nd Round Pick (2025) -                 2nd Round Pick (2022)
Montrezl Harrell -                                $11.5M Trade Exception       -                    -
Spencer Dinwiddie -                    
Aaron Holiday 
Isaiah Todd (#31) - - 


Indiana randomly converts Aaron Holiday and #31 into #22 overall. Chandler Hutchison is involved!
   3997. DCA Posted: August 04, 2021 at 08:06 PM (#6032891)
Whose 2nd are the Spurs getting in exchange for having to roster Hutchison?
   3998. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: August 04, 2021 at 08:57 PM (#6032897)
Sound and fury signifying… wat
   3999. tshipman Posted: August 04, 2021 at 09:53 PM (#6032906)
Whose 2nd are the Spurs getting in exchange for having to roster Hutchison?


??? it's a good question. Perhaps it is just a second that has been breathed into existence.
   4000. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 04, 2021 at 10:03 PM (#6032907)
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