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Friday, May 21, 2021

NBA 2021 Playoffs+ thread

I estimate there are maybe 10-12 Primates left on this site, and they all post in the NBA thread.

Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: May 21, 2021 at 01:07 PM | 4930 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: clutch, narratives, nba, off topic, redemption

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   4201. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: August 12, 2021 at 02:14 PM (#6034095)
Sengun's outrageous nutmeg attempt has me excited for Houston.
   4202. asinwreck Posted: August 12, 2021 at 02:53 PM (#6034104)
Patrick Williams's second game as the focal point of the Summer League Bulls' offense went better than the first one. That's the thing I'm paying attention to as we wait to see how the league punishes the Bulls and how Markkanen's situation resolves.
   4203. jmurph Posted: August 12, 2021 at 03:07 PM (#6034105)
After a week or so of solid watching, I started believing it still was 2020 and accidentally signed a check (I know, I know) that way.

...
I mean, were you so confused by the 2020 thing that you thought it was actually 1995?

This deserves a repost on the new page.
   4204. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 12, 2021 at 05:21 PM (#6034152)
It is not my fault my city insists on checks to pay my water bill.

As an aside ... a friend of mine wanted some props for a game he was running and found a group called The Oddfellows. He said how weird it was to deal with them because you had to call in your order and mail them a check. Odd indeed.
   4205. Fourth True Outcome Posted: August 12, 2021 at 05:54 PM (#6034162)
Shams report that Kawhi is signing for 4/176.3. Lowe and a guest recently discussed Kawhi, and talked about how his camp wanted to talk to other teams, presumably as leverage to get a 1+1 deal out of the Clippers, but no other teams would play ball because of how transparently he wasn't actually interested in leaving LA. If that's true, looks like he's realized he doesn't have any leverage.
   4206. smileyy Posted: August 12, 2021 at 08:19 PM (#6034186)
Looks like $44M per year of no leverage to me. (I mean, I get it, and still...)
   4207. jmurph Posted: August 12, 2021 at 08:22 PM (#6034187)
For a guy who plays 75% of his team’s games even when healthy, that’s pretty terrifying!

But yeah, I also get it.
   4208. tshipman Posted: August 12, 2021 at 09:02 PM (#6034201)
It's a 3+1, not a straight 4 year deal, but the Clippers probably did okay for themselves. Kawhi probably preferred a 1+1, and the Clippers preferred a full 4.

Honestly, if Kawhi leaves after 3 years it's probably ok?
   4209. SteveF Posted: August 12, 2021 at 09:13 PM (#6034203)
He'd be extension eligible after the second year as well, I believe. So in theory he could turn the 3+1 into 2 years and then into the 5 year franchise destroyer as an extension.
   4210. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: August 13, 2021 at 12:39 AM (#6034222)
Obviously this isn't the whole story, but it's kind of crazy how all the perceived biggest albatross contracts have been traded in the last year, some multiple times. Wall, Wiggins, Westbrook, Paul. OK, Wall was only traded for Westbrook, but all the others have been traded for not *that* much negative value. I guess Kevin Love is still stuck in Cleveland.
   4211. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 13, 2021 at 07:28 AM (#6034226)

Robin Lopez
@rolopez42
·
13h
I've been congratulated so many times on winning a championship this summer. I don't want to hurt anybodys feelings, so I've just been saying thanks. It's gotten to the point where I feel like I*have* won and I pensively ask myself "Is that all there is...?"
Quote Tweet

   4212. spivey 2 Posted: August 13, 2021 at 09:49 AM (#6034237)
Obviously this isn't the whole story, but it's kind of crazy how all the perceived biggest albatross contracts have been traded in the last year, some multiple times. Wall, Wiggins, Westbrook, Paul. OK, Wall was only traded for Westbrook, but all the others have been traded for not *that* much negative value. I guess Kevin Love is still stuck in Cleveland.


Yes. Of course many of these contracts are being traded for each other. But some of it is most of who got a contract like that was probably at least an all-star, many were all-NBA guys, so it's easy to dream on them, especially now that we're in the post-Warriors era.

A lot fewer of the top guys are going to FA, so cap space doesn't mean what it used to. I don't know if that's just short term randomness or not. My suspicion is that it isn't - and most of them are happy to take the extra bucks with their current teams, with the thought they can force a move if that team is incapable of winning.

Cap space didn't get you a lot this year, and assuming the Nets keep their guys I don't think it'll get you much next year, either.
   4213. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 13, 2021 at 08:42 PM (#6034329)
John Hollinger replied
M. Haubs
@mhaubs
·
27m
Summer League overreaction: early returns suggest that the giant missed opportunity of the Draft evening might well have been OKC passing on Kuminga at 6, trading out of Sengun at 16, and passing on McBride at 32.
   4214. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: August 14, 2021 at 12:23 AM (#6034354)
NOT ALL HEROS WEAR CAPES
A parents worst nightmare….. Feat my son & I

No one was harmed in this video

pic.twitter.com/POumiU9HGk

— Andre Drummond (@AndreDrummond) August 12, 2021
man is quick.
   4215. asinwreck Posted: August 15, 2021 at 07:48 PM (#6034524)
Watching Cam Thomas in Vegas, he could be a useful microwave scorer for Brooklyn this year.
   4216. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: August 15, 2021 at 08:19 PM (#6034525)
Woj:
The Los Angeles Clippers are trading Patrick Beverley, Rajon Rondo and Daniel Oturu to the Memphis Grizzlies for guard Eric Bledsoe, sources tell ESPN.
   4217. . . . . . . Posted: August 15, 2021 at 08:45 PM (#6034529)
Random thought, but Jericho Sims is a nice surprise for the Knicks as a second rounder. I imagine he'll stick with the big club. His complete lack of shooting is as advertised, as is his great switchability and only B+ defensive awareness. But he is a much better passer than I expected - there's a little Joakim Noah mixed in with his rim runner game - and I think he's a good fit for Thibs.
   4218. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 15, 2021 at 09:25 PM (#6034531)

Bobby Marks
@BobbyMarks42
Cap ramifications for LAC/MEM:

LAC
Eric Bledsoe: $18.1M and $19.4M ($3.9M GTY)
LAC will see their tax bill drop from $125M to $95M (savings of $30M)
$8.3M TE for LAC

MEM
Patrick Beverley: $14.3M
Rajon Rondo: $7.5M ($750K likely bonus)
Daniel Oturu: $1.5M
   4219. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 15, 2021 at 10:26 PM (#6034535)
Basketball · Trending
paul reed
Philadelphia’s 2020 second-round pick Paul Reed dominates with 27 points, 20 rebounds, four steals and four blocks in the Sixers’ Summer League overtime loss to the Timberwolves
   4220. Moeball Posted: August 15, 2021 at 10:54 PM (#6034538)
Others have probably touched upon this previously but I've been out of touch for a while. Kevin Durant post-achilles injury looked like the best I've ever seen coming back from such a serious injury. Question is, does that make him a unicorn or is this likely to become more commonplace going forward given modern training and medical advancements? More to the point, what are the chances Klay Thompson can return to pre-injury form this coming season?
   4221. tshipman Posted: August 15, 2021 at 11:31 PM (#6034546)
That whole trade sequence looks like a really nice piece of business for Memphis.

They get assets to take Bledsoe, they turn around and use Bledsoe to pick up a better player in PatBev. If Beverly helps you, then great. If not, you can flip him for more assets at the deadline.
   4222. PJ Martinez Posted: August 16, 2021 at 08:23 AM (#6034562)
Top-4 rookie scorers in NBA Summer League history who’ve played multiple games according to @RealGM are

1. Jerryd Bayless 29.8 PPG
2. Donovan Mitchell 28 PPG
3. Cam Thomas 27 PPG
4. Damian Lillard 26.5 PPG
   4223. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: August 16, 2021 at 10:00 AM (#6034568)
That’s a shame. I always find myself pulling for Memphis, but they just acquired the dirtiest player in the league, so that makes them less fun to root for. Definitely a candidate to be flipped, though.
   4224. Willard Baseball Posted: August 16, 2021 at 10:17 AM (#6034569)
I think Oturu is also an interesting prospect. Rondo and PatBev are probably trade/buyout candidates at some point...I don't see Rondo ever putting on a Memphis uniform.

I am hopeful PatBev is healthy and engaged...putting high level defenders with competitiveness around Ja has been a focus, and Memphis has done a good job of it. There are going to be times where that defense (Melton/Bev/Brooks) is going to be very good in the backcourt, and with Brooks on the court, he is going to take all of the shots anyway.

The entire key to this franchise right now is JJJ. He is still young enough that he can turn into something...he can be an elite shooter. Has to stay healthy though, and his rebounding numbers last year (in a very limited sample) were much better.

Oturu also gives them another backup Center with Tillman, in case they want to leave JJJ at the 4 all year. The guy getting squeezed may end up being Clarke.
   4225. spivey 2 Posted: August 16, 2021 at 11:02 AM (#6034572)
Putting Brooks and Beverly on a team together could break foul records.

Deal makes sense for both teams, imo.
   4226. asinwreck Posted: August 16, 2021 at 12:16 PM (#6034579)
My favorite line from Woj's story on the trade: "The Grizzlies are open-minded on how they all might fit into the team, but Memphis already has a packed roster."

I read that to mean trade talks are ongoing, and not to count on any of the recent Clippers being with Memphis at the start of the season.
   4227. Willard Baseball Posted: August 16, 2021 at 12:35 PM (#6034581)
I think Oturu will for sure. PatBev will have some role I am guessing. Zero chance Rondo is in Memphis on opening night.
   4228. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: August 16, 2021 at 01:29 PM (#6034592)
I agree. Rondo showed little interest in playing for a team that started last year with fringe playoff hopes, which is where Memphis probably is right now.
   4229. tshipman Posted: August 16, 2021 at 02:17 PM (#6034600)
I looked at Cam Thomas and put a second round grade on him.

He has real scoring tools, but his college stats paint a picture of a guy who will struggle on defense (poor steals, very low rebounds), and a black hole on offense (more TOs than assists, only 1.7 assists per 40).

Hard to see him being a star because the scoring has to be so good to offset the defense, and he can't really be the center of an offense.
   4230. asinwreck Posted: August 16, 2021 at 03:44 PM (#6034614)
I doubt he's a star or will be able to address his deficiencies enough to be a reliable starter. But having him in for a few minutes at a time with Harden on the point could be a nitro boost to an offense that is already ridiculously potent.
   4231. PJ Martinez Posted: August 16, 2021 at 10:24 PM (#6034678)
Celtics extend Smart, 4 yrs/77m (which is the most he was eligible for in an extension; there's also a trade kicker).
   4232. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 17, 2021 at 02:56 AM (#6034688)
The LAC/MEM deal seems odd to me. I think it is setting up other stuff as suggested.

Ball gets 4/85 and Smart gets 4/77.
   4233. PJ Martinez Posted: August 17, 2021 at 08:28 AM (#6034702)
Embiid's projected extension:

23-24, $43,732,500 (age 29)
24-25, $47,231,100 (are 30)
25-26, $50,729,700 (age 31)
26-27, $54,228,300 (age 32)

Last year is a player option
   4234. jmurph Posted: August 17, 2021 at 09:16 AM (#6034704)
Gonna be making a million a game in those last two seasons...
   4235. JJ1986 Posted: August 17, 2021 at 09:45 AM (#6034707)
I think Memphis made the deal to setup more stuff, but for the Clippers, Rondo and Oturu are both pretty useless so they save a bunch of money this season to swap Beverly for Bledsoe.
   4236. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: August 17, 2021 at 11:12 AM (#6034718)
TRADE! Pat Bev to the Wolves for Culver and Juancho.

Huh. On first blush, I like it? I still think that Culver has a higher ceiling than he's shown so far, but a second unit point guard? Sure.
   4237. asinwreck Posted: August 17, 2021 at 11:12 AM (#6034719)
They get younger. I still don't think they're done with dealing ex-Clippers.

I like Beverley on Minnesota. Will be interesting to see how he works with Russell.
   4238. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: August 17, 2021 at 11:22 AM (#6034721)
G: Russell/Beverley/Bolmaro
G: Edwards/Beasley
F: McDaniels/Okogie
F: Vanderbilt/Prince
C: Towns/Reid

? Like, that's not a good team, but it's starting to make more sense to me?
   4239. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: August 17, 2021 at 11:43 AM (#6034722)
Embiid's projected extension:

23-24, $43,732,500 (age 29)
24-25, $47,231,100 (are 30)
25-26, $50,729,700 (age 31)
26-27, $54,228,300 (age 32)

Last year is a player option
what are you gonna do, not pay him?
   4240. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: August 17, 2021 at 11:44 AM (#6034723)
G: Russell/Beverley/Bolmaro
G: Edwards/Beasley
F: McDaniels/Okogie
F: Vanderbilt/Prince
C: Towns/Reid

? Like, that's not a good team, but it's starting to make more sense to me?
mcdaniels and vanderbilt are redundant.

beverley/russell/beasley/edwards/towns is a much funnier option.
   4241. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: August 17, 2021 at 11:47 AM (#6034724)
I think McDaniels is going to be good. Vanderbilt is pretty much replacement level, yes. Like I said, it's not a good team. But I'm ok with them running that out and seeing what happens.
   4242. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: August 17, 2021 at 11:57 AM (#6034726)
This dime-store Prestidigitation that the Memphis FO is executing to accumulate distressed assets is pretty entertaining.
   4243. tshipman Posted: August 17, 2021 at 12:23 PM (#6034731)
I don't get the trade from Memphis's POV. Culver is not even rotation caliber. I guess it's a Juancho for PatBev swap? And Beverly is a better player, but paid a lot more. Are they just trying to generate a trade exemption?
   4244. jmurph Posted: August 17, 2021 at 12:26 PM (#6034732)
Speaking of trade exceptions, the Fournier deal is now a sign-and-trade, giving Boston a $17ish million exception. They often don't amount to much but it's useful to get, at least, in case something comes up.
   4245. JJ1986 Posted: August 17, 2021 at 01:12 PM (#6034740)
Memphis has a lot of players under contract now.

Starters: Morant, Brooks, Anderson, JJJ, Adams.
Bench: Jones, Melton, Bane, Clarke, Tillman
Also on team: Culver, Konchar, Z. Williams, Juancho, Oturu, Aldama.

I'm not sure what Konchar's contract is. They can dump Rondo and Merrill and not lose anything.
   4246. PJ Martinez Posted: August 17, 2021 at 03:28 PM (#6034764)
Giving Milwaukee the 2:30 slot on Christmas Day, against the Celtics, while understandable as a business decision, seems a little disrespectful to the champs.
   4247. jmurph Posted: August 17, 2021 at 03:42 PM (#6034766)
Fully admitting the Celtics don't "deserve" the slot on merit, those are some fun games. For anyone who didn't see the schedule:

Noon (ET) Hawks-Knicks
230 Celtics-Bucks
5 Warriors-Suns
8 Nets-Lakers
1030 Mavs-Jazz
   4248. spivey 2 Posted: August 17, 2021 at 04:15 PM (#6034769)
Seems like kind of a big season for the Celtics in terms of the "Are they just gonna flounder for a few years here in the middle of Tatum's prime" question.

Pretty excited about the Nets at Milwaukee for the ring ceremony. That should be fun.
   4249. Mike A Posted: August 17, 2021 at 04:22 PM (#6034770)
The last time the Hawks played on Christmas Day, Moses Malone was the starting center with Doc Rivers at the point.

Doc didn't play on Christmas, though, I assume he was hurt or scared of going up against Paul Mokeski.

Spud Webb had himself a game in Doc's place - 26 points on 12-14 shooting, 12 assists, and 6(!) rebounds.
   4250. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 17, 2021 at 06:58 PM (#6034801)
J.Vanderbilt is tricky because he can’t shoot but I really really like the defense. Way above replacement for me; I’d want him on my team.

I like the bev deal for Minnesota. For Memphis, I like the idea of it except that I think Culver and Juancho are bad. Culver can fill the Winslow/Josh Jackson wing rehab project role I guess.
   4251. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: August 17, 2021 at 07:19 PM (#6034804)
I am worried that the Wolves will be a hipster choice to do well this season. No, dammit.
   4252. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: August 17, 2021 at 10:47 PM (#6034833)
Fully admitting the Celtics don't "deserve" the slot on merit, those are some fun games.


Isn't the Celtics (and Lakers) on Xmas traditional, like the Lions playing on Thanksgiving?
   4253. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: August 17, 2021 at 11:34 PM (#6034839)
Ky Carlin @Ky_Carlin
Dang. A year ago today, the 2020 NBA Playoffs started in the bubble in Orlando. Man, what a time.

   4254. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: August 18, 2021 at 01:35 PM (#6034886)
Anyone post these yet? From PointsBet and don't see them listed anywhere else yet so sure the numbers will shift. Regular season wins over/under:

55.5 Brooklyn
54.5 Milwaukee (over -120)
51.5 Philadelphia
48.5 Miami (over -115)
47.5 Boston (over -130)
47.5 Atlanta
---
43.5 Indiana
40.5 New York (over -140)
39.5 Chicago (over -154)
37.5 Toronto (over -115)
---
36.5 Charlotte (over -130)
34.5 Washington (over -150)
28.5 Cleveland (under -140)
25.5 Detroit (over -115)
24.0 Orlando

52.5 Utah (over -130)
52.5 Lakers
51.5 Phoenix
48.5 Golden State (under -130)
48.5 Dallas (under -135)
47.5 Denver
---
44.5 Clippers (over -140)
44.5 Portland
41.0 Memphis (under -115)
38.5 New Orleans
---
34.5 Minnesota (under -115)
34.5 Sacramento (under -120)
28.5 San Antonio (over -130)
25.5 Houston
23.5 Oklahoma City (under -130)

Can't say anything sticks out to me too much. Feels like very little changed this offseason. Maybe it always feels that way but I'm suspecting it's less projected year-to-year change than usual. Maybe not.
   4255. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: August 18, 2021 at 01:44 PM (#6034888)
There haven't really been any big player movements, like there were a couple of years ago.
   4256. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: August 18, 2021 at 01:49 PM (#6034891)
51.5 Philadelphia
i don't know why anyone, aside from maybe jeff gillooly, would jump on either side of this bet.
   4257. jmurph Posted: August 18, 2021 at 01:59 PM (#6034892)
Miami and Chicago surprise me as being a bit lower than I would have guessed (I was prepared to go under on whatever the consensus was for both, but these seem reasonable to me).
   4258. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 18, 2021 at 02:03 PM (#6034894)
Off-season: Yeah, no Top 10-15 guys changed teams. The biggest move was the Westbrook deal, and I think most people outside of a fairly large subset of the Lakers fanbase do not believe that it changed the Lakers' title chances much. Doing the "tiers" thing:

MIL LAL LAC BKN
PHX DEN PHL UTA
MIA DAL ATL
POR NYK BOS

I would make Brooklyn the slight favorite, and there will be roughly ten zillion articles, posts, and Tweets including the health caveat for Brooklyn and the LA teams between now and the playoffs.

Minnesota: The Wolves had a possible low-playoff seed/on the rise/hipster/League Pass moment under Rick Adelman when they had Love, Rubio and had drafted Derrick Williams #2. This was when David Kahn was there. Also, ofc Minnesota made the playoffs in 2018 when they had Jimmy Butler to go along with Towns and were coached by Thibodeau. Memphis with Morant has that vibe in the West right now, and Minnesota will get some of that this year as well.
   4259. JJ1986 Posted: August 18, 2021 at 02:10 PM (#6034896)
I think New Orleans is way too high considering their offseason.
   4260. spivey 2 Posted: August 18, 2021 at 02:43 PM (#6034903)
I'd take under on Miami's wins. I think they'll be a solid playoff team, but there's a lot of hard miles and not easy offense on that team for the regular season.

San Antonio feels a bit low to me. They've got enough average players, I think they'll cobble something together.
   4261. tshipman Posted: August 18, 2021 at 05:32 PM (#6034967)
I think I'm an over on Dallas, under on Portland, over on OKC, under on Chicago, over on Charlotte, maaaybe under on Lakers?
   4262. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: August 18, 2021 at 06:32 PM (#6034986)
Anyone else see the little aside that came out from an interview with Kevin Durant and Draymond Green? They blame Kerr and the GM for not handling their fight correctly. Durant said it needed to be like the Pippen incident in Chicago - that the team came together in the locker room and told him it was shitty that he sat the last play out. Not sure how the team responding to something differently in GS means it's the org's fault. Both Green and KD strike me as headaches for any organization. KD especially may be what you need to win, but man, doesn't really seem to make it enjoyable.
   4263. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: August 19, 2021 at 02:51 AM (#6035080)
The contender lines look pretty reasonable to me, but the lower ones look weird. Over on OKC, San Antonio, and Detroit; under on Cleveland and Houston.
   4264. asinwreck Posted: August 19, 2021 at 09:32 AM (#6035097)
Terry Rozier extended in Charlotte 4/$97m.
   4265. asinwreck Posted: August 19, 2021 at 10:59 AM (#6035111)
Sam Vecenie has a good writeup on how the rookies in Summer League fared. Lots of good stuff here about Cade Cunningham, Evan Mobley, and a few others; his take on Cam Thomas is similar to mine.

As human beings, we all aspire to the confidence level Thomas has when the basketball is in his hands. Playing for a Brooklyn team that is contending and has more shot creation skill than any other team in the NBA could be either the absolute best or worst thing for Thomas to start his career. He could average 12 points playing 15 relatively critical minutes per game for the Nets and develop into someone who pops off for 25 points per game by the time he’s 25 years old by learning from the stars around him. Or, he could figure out what he needs to do in order to make an impact on this specific Nets team, hone in on his defense and passing skills and round out his game in a real, tangible way that changes who he is as a player going forward. Or, he could piss off Kevin Durant, James Harden, and Kyrie Irving so much by gunning for his own shots while they’re out there on the court with him that they demand Sean Marks trades him by midseason. It’s glorious, and I can’t wait to find out how this goes.
   4266. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: August 19, 2021 at 11:25 AM (#6035117)
I hope Vecenie's opinion (which seems to be shared by the people on Twitter that tweet all the time about prospects) of Cade Cunningham is correct. I wouldn't have picked anyone else if I were the Pistons, but I'm getting a "Cade is a good player and might make a few all star teams, but isn't ever going to be All-NBA" sort of feeling. Which I know is in the normal range of outcomes, and there are WAY worse outcomes, but when you get #1 you're hoping for more.
   4267. spivey 2 Posted: August 19, 2021 at 12:19 PM (#6035127)
With the disclaimer I am not a draft expert, it's a little worrisome that Cade doesn't seem great at being able to really beat his man off the dribble. At least, at the 3 point line. I was impressed in the extended highlights of the game vs. Houston with his ability to finish through contact, but would be nice if he needed to do that less often. People say his ability to play slow is a plus. I dunno. I see a guy who may struggle at being able to beat his guy and put the defense into rotation or get a good defender in a compromising position.

And what's the ceiling of that kind of guy? Middleton?

I think I like Jalen Green more.
   4268. KronicFatigue Posted: August 19, 2021 at 12:55 PM (#6035133)
Regarding the quote in 4265 are players actually limited by time/energy in terms of what they can work on? Can't Thomas "work on" his defense and passing while still finding time to "learn" from the stars? This isn't 2k where you have to allocate your skill points.
   4269. tshipman Posted: August 19, 2021 at 02:07 PM (#6035149)
Regarding the quote in 4265 are players actually limited by time/energy in terms of what they can work on? Can't Thomas "work on" his defense and passing while still finding time to "learn" from the stars? This isn't 2k where you have to allocate your skill points.


His defensive tools are quite poor. He's 6'4 and has to play alongside someone who can distribute (because he can't). He's also not a good rebounder for his position.

Could he improve all of those things? Sure, but generally speaking, it's unlikely. Guys generally don't change the type of player they are, and the ones who do (Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard) are the exception rather than the rule. Further, it takes them years of work to change.

Generally speaking, guys tend to just become better versions of the same archetype. You don't change from a score-first combo guard to a defensive wing as a rookie.
   4270. spivey 2 Posted: August 19, 2021 at 09:45 PM (#6035235)
Did Durant really change the type of player he was? He was always destined to be a superstar imo, even his early years where he was inefficient.
   4271. tshipman Posted: August 19, 2021 at 10:17 PM (#6035246)
Durant's handle used to be really loose, and he struggled as a passer. As a result, he was more of a play finisher than a play creator. From 2010-2012, he led the league in scoring every year, but averaged 80% of his 3s being assisted and had 2.8 assists per 36 to 3.0 turnovers.

Then, something changed and starting in about 2014, he flipped a switch, tightened up his handle and became a much more complete player. Since then, he basically doubled his assists to 5.4 per 36 while lowering his turnovers. He went from 80% of his 3s being assisted to just about 65%.

He was a superstar in 2012, and then he got better.
   4272. PJ Martinez Posted: August 20, 2021 at 04:21 PM (#6035360)
Celtics extend Robert Williams, 4 yrs/54m. I think he's easily worth that if he stays healthy — a big if, in his case. But I love watching him play. And I feel optimistic about the Stevens-as-GM era based on what he's done so far.
   4273. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: August 20, 2021 at 11:09 PM (#6035441)
Comedian and Promising Young Woman star Bo Burnham has officially been sidelined. He’ll no longer play the role of legendary Boston Celtics baller Larry Bird in the forthcoming HBO Max series about the Los Angeles Lakers team during the ‘80s.

unfortunate, because that was an inspired bit of casting.
   4274. Howie Menckel Posted: August 20, 2021 at 11:41 PM (#6035448)
Generally speaking, guys tend to just become better versions of the same archetype.

this used to be (and I suspect still is) quite visible right after the end of NBA practices.

the 90% free throw shooter is taking 100+ more.
the 3-point specialist does his thing.
the low-post scorer (ok, now I'm dating myself, lol) works against a teammate on his spin moves left and right.
and so on.

the mid-level players each have a meal ticket that got them into the league - and they hone it for as long as they can.

there is only so much time in the day, after all - and working on a weakness seems to feel, to them, like ignoring a strength.
   4275. Paul D(uda) Posted: August 21, 2021 at 03:40 PM (#6035479)
Ujiri's new deal is paying him $15 million a year
   4276. JJ1986 Posted: August 24, 2021 at 09:50 AM (#6035975)
New Boston Celtics G/F Josh Richardson has agreed to a one-year extension that pays him $24 million over the next two seasons, agent Erik Kabe of @BDA_Sports told @TheAthletic @Stadium.
This is the death of math, language and reporting all at once.
   4277. jmurph Posted: August 24, 2021 at 01:25 PM (#6036012)
Ujiri's new deal is paying him $15 million a year

Wow. Trying to find something to compare this to but front office salaries are hard to come by. There's a report that Morey got 10-12+ from the Sixers.
   4278. asinwreck Posted: August 24, 2021 at 01:56 PM (#6036019)
He may be getting more than his salary:
Multiple sources have confirmed that there’s no ownership arrangement but in addition to a handsome salary believed to be among the highest in pro sports, there is likely some ‘equity-like' elements to the deal. According to executive compensation experts that could mean Ujiri earning bonuses based on revenues or even participating in the growth in the valuation of the company over the course of his deal. Given the revenues MLSE has enjoyed, not to mention the trajectory of NBA franchise values – $2 billion and climbing, even at the low end – Ujiri is in position to be richly rewarded.
   4279. asinwreck Posted: August 24, 2021 at 01:57 PM (#6036020)
Jared Dudley's career path has diverged from Udonis Haslem's, as Dudley has agreed to become an actual assistant coach for the Mavericks.
   4280. Fourth True Outcome Posted: August 24, 2021 at 07:16 PM (#6036100)
Nerlens Noel is apparently suing Rich Paul, not only for advocating for his Schröder-esque refusal of the 4/70m Mavs offer but also for failing to meaningfully look for deals for him when he was a free agent, and, most apparently damningly, being impossible to contact for teams who wanted to sign Noel multiple times. One imagines this will get settled out of court, as I can't imagine Paul or the league would want that kind of publicity. I think there have been rumors that Paul has been a mediocre agent for non-marquee players for some time, but this is interesting.
   4281. spivey 2 Posted: August 25, 2021 at 07:57 AM (#6036178)
Sources are telling me that Bud signed a 3 year extension. He was only under contract through the remainder of this year, so that takes him through the 24-25 season.
   4282. spivey 2 Posted: August 25, 2021 at 08:30 AM (#6036184)
Re: 4280

When I scroll through the list of Rich Paul's clients, it includes a lot of young guys on their rookie contracts. But it does include a number of other guys - Bledsoe, Dejounte Murray, KCP, Clarkson, Terrence Ross, Harrell, and Thompson who I think are being paid fairly.

Also includes Lonzo, THT, and Gary Trent who got new contracts this year - and who I think all got a pretty good amount of money this year, the latter two probably at the tip top of their range.
   4283. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: August 25, 2021 at 10:16 AM (#6036212)
Wouldn't it also make sense to look at when those contracts were signed, and who their teammates might have been at the time? I can see a) Paul sharpening his game after the Noel debacle and b) taking care of sub-star level players who play with, eg LeBron, and those two things not really pertaining to Noel's situation.
   4284. jmurph Posted: August 25, 2021 at 12:11 PM (#6036249)
Not a lawyer and thus no expertise, but surely "giving what turns out to be bad advice" is not legally actionable? Assuming it was done in good faith?

Presumably several of you are lawyers, this is BBTF afterall.
   4285. Fourth True Outcome Posted: August 25, 2021 at 01:02 PM (#6036254)
I, too, am not a lawyer, and as I said doubt any of this will reach a courtroom, but I think it'll hinge less on advice given and more on what is provable about this part:
Noel allegedly learned from Brett Brown, who was coaching the Philadelphia 76ers at the time, that the 76ers front office had been trying to contact Paul to discuss a potential deal and that Paul refused to respond. This was purportedly the case with other team representatives who were reaching out as well.

   4286. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: August 25, 2021 at 01:34 PM (#6036260)
I mean, if the agent has a fiduciary obligation to the client, then I can see how "not returning phone calls" is actionable. I am also not a lawyer, but I am married to one.
   4287. jmurph Posted: August 25, 2021 at 03:00 PM (#6036282)
Ahh well, I see. This implicit expectation that I'm supposed to read the article is, I think, a little unfair, and I'll be contacting my attorney.
   4288. CFBF is Obsessed with Art Deco Posted: August 25, 2021 at 09:28 PM (#6036368)
ESPN has cancelled Rachel Nichols' show and taken her off its NBA shows.
   4289. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: August 26, 2021 at 01:41 PM (#6036533)

ESPN has cancelled Rachel Nichols' show and taken her off its NBA shows.


There's got to be more to that decision than just her private/leaked comments, no? Seems like a silly decision to me.
   4290. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 26, 2021 at 01:48 PM (#6036535)
   4291. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: August 26, 2021 at 03:24 PM (#6036556)
[4290] I hadn't realized until looking at the list that the last six head coaches hired were all Black. Setting aside Kidd's and Billups's ... issues, that's pretty cool.
   4292. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 27, 2021 at 12:18 PM (#6036698)
Markkanen to CLE for 4/67. Sign and trade…

Shams says teams will receive:
Bulls: Derrick Jones Jr., Portland protected first-rounder*, Denver protected 2023 second-rounder
Cavaliers: Lauri Markkanen
Trail Blazers: Larry Nance Jr.

* it’s POR’s ‘22 1st, protected 1-14 thru ‘28 - then becomes a second rounder
   4293. tshipman Posted: August 27, 2021 at 12:18 PM (#6036699)
Woj water balloon:


Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
17m
Cleveland is acquiring Chicago restricted free agent F Lauri Markkanen on a four-year, $67M deal in a sign-and-trade, sources tell ESPN.


Don't really get Cleveland's thinking.

Edit: and Larry Nance goes to Portland. Whenever you can get a worse player and pay them more, you just gotta do it.
   4294. 57i66135 is available to babysit, for a price Posted: August 27, 2021 at 12:23 PM (#6036701)
Don't really get Cleveland's thinking.
first, you need to get your offense into the top 20.
next, you need to get your defense out of the bottom 5.
and finally, you get fired with 3 years left on your contract, so you get to spend a bunch of time on paid vacation.

and Larry Nance goes to Portland
clearly the precursor to a lillard/simmons swap.
   4295. JJ1986 Posted: August 27, 2021 at 12:38 PM (#6036707)
If I'm Cleveland, I'd probably just take Jones Jr. and the first rounder for Nance.
   4296. aberg Posted: August 27, 2021 at 12:50 PM (#6036708)
It seems like the idea for Mobley is that he can be a better, more complete version of Markkanen. Since the already paid Allen this summer, that's a crowded interior rotation. You basically have to commit all your frontcourt minutes to those 3 and never go small. Also, it's hard to see which hump Markkanen would push them over, 30 wins? He is that much better than Nance?
   4297. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: August 27, 2021 at 12:57 PM (#6036710)
What are the Cavs even doing?
   4298. Fourth True Outcome Posted: August 27, 2021 at 01:05 PM (#6036712)
I like the move a lot for Portland; I think they needed to do something, anything after the Dame drama earlier this offseason. Doing functionally nothing would have seemed like daring him to leave. Like everyone else, I couldn't tell you what exactly Cleveland is doing. That's paying a lot for a gamble.
   4299. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 27, 2021 at 01:40 PM (#6036725)
It is looking less like Portland is going to flip Dame. Which - from everything I have read and heard - is partly why Simmons has been frozen, Philly wants Dame or Beal. I mean it is good to dream big, but I admit I am starting to hope the season starts with Simmons in Philly.

Nothing says team like throwing a guy who had a horrific trainwreck series under the bus, openly try to trade them all off-season, and then welcome them back to the team next season.
   4300. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: August 27, 2021 at 01:52 PM (#6036730)
cleveland - lauri was like a 19/9 a few seasons back as a 21 year old. if he can be used better, regain some skills, and keep the improved shooting - he could be a real hoss for the cavs along side evan m (who i see as more of an adebayo type with a higher shooting ceiling, but less motor). that is, however, a lot of $ being spent on their interior and makes the allen deal look stranger than it already did.

portland - nance is sort of like what some think djj is (but via guile not athleticism and with more passing) - love nance. when he's healthy. i don't know his current medicals, that could impact this? i think it's more likely that they just don't believe in him tho. now, is it worth a mid to late first for a short term upgrade at this spot? probably/maybe - especially if it keeps dame around.

this is probably a good bit of business for chicago, considering that they've kept markkanen this long.
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