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Friday, May 21, 2021

NBA 2021 Playoffs+ thread

I estimate there are maybe 10-12 Primates left on this site, and they all post in the NBA thread.

Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: May 21, 2021 at 01:07 PM | 4930 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: clutch, narratives, nba, off topic, redemption

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   4301. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 27, 2021 at 03:24 PM (#6036755)
Flip
   4302. asinwreck Posted: August 27, 2021 at 07:27 PM (#6036806)
Jones can be a disappointing wing who can play some defense. That and some draft capital for a tall, fragile 3-point specialist is a reasonable deal for the Bulls.

Following both players since the draft, I don't think it ever occurred to me that Jarrett Allen and Lauri Markkanen would play next to each other. Maybe Allen can point out some of the finer points of defense to his fellow seven-footer.
   4303. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 29, 2021 at 12:12 AM (#6036933)

Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
The Los Angeles Lakers are the frontrunners to sign Rajon Rondo after he clears waivers on Monday, sources tell
@TheAthletic

@Stadium
. Rondo was a key part of the Lakers‘ 2020 championship team.


Bought out by Memphis.
   4304. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: August 29, 2021 at 08:34 PM (#6037022)
Random, but am I the only one that thinks the Blazers could actually be good as things stand now? I feel like a full year (knock on wood) of Nurkic and Nance, plus Zeller, is a WAY better front court than last year's front court of Nurkic, Kanter, and Carmelo.

They were favored to beat the Nuggets, and they did lose of course, but anything can happen in a close series.

It's not so much that I LOVE the Blazers but I don't see why they can't have a puncher's chance the same way that the whole West has a puncher's chance if LeBron/AD aren't healthy.
   4305. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: August 30, 2021 at 09:36 AM (#6037085)
svi to toronto on a 2 year deal, yr 2 being a p-opt. i'm critical of the raps handing out plaer options too readily but it makes sense here as getting him for (presumably) the min is an excellent value.
--
reports are that portland tried to land lauri for the same first +jones that went to chicago but instead got nance for that price (as the bulls wanted that first plus a second and portland said no).
--
the blazers are better, to be sure. also wouldn't be shocked if they landed simmons...
   4306. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: August 30, 2021 at 10:43 AM (#6037096)
I don't really understand the Blazers unless they're lining up to move CJ?
   4307. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: August 30, 2021 at 01:27 PM (#6037142)
their moves this offseason or their lack of other moves?
---
rondo to the lakers
   4308. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: August 30, 2021 at 01:28 PM (#6037143)
Like, why pay Norm $90MM to force Covington out of position or come off the bench?
   4309. tshipman Posted: August 30, 2021 at 01:35 PM (#6037146)
I don't really think the Blazers will be good. They have too many structural problems on defense that they tripled down on with the Norm Powell thing.

***

Rondo to the Lakers is the kiss/curse of being the top choice for ring chasers. You get worse by signing him and you probably end up keeping him on the roster.
   4310. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 30, 2021 at 04:00 PM (#6037196)
I don't really understand the Blazers unless they're lining up to move CJ?


That would either mean trying to restructure around Dame (a good thing) or complete teardown (maybe a good thing).
   4311. tshipman Posted: August 30, 2021 at 04:22 PM (#6037207)
Probably my most unpopular NBA opinion is that Portland should be enthusiastic about moving on from Dame. His salary is gargantuan going forward, he's very old, and he's the kind of player archetype that is least likely to have playoff success.
   4312. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 30, 2021 at 04:57 PM (#6037225)
Pretty clearly what they have now is not going to get better. So they should either restructure (keeping Dame) or tear down.

I am a romantic, so I like Dame being in Portland his whole career. But if they want to teardown, that works. Status quo is the worst option IMO.
   4313. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 31, 2021 at 01:20 PM (#6037409)
   4314. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: August 31, 2021 at 01:29 PM (#6037413)
I like the fit of Simmons next to Towns and Edwards, but he seems like a colossal jerk, so ... maybe not?
   4315. Fourth True Outcome Posted: August 31, 2021 at 01:55 PM (#6037423)
I've been fascinated to see how the Simmons/Philly relationship plays out since it became clear Morey was willing to at least bluff a willingness to keep Simmons into the season. Given how badly things ended last season and what has come out of his camp, I'm not surprised Simmons seems to be threatening holding out. Given the good-not-great packages that seem available, including no Dame, it'll be fascinating to see if Morey is actually willing to make Simmons show up to training camp/actively hold out, or if he's trying to maximize what he can get before then, even if it takes waiting to the last minute.

On the Portland front, I think tship is probably correct in terms of assets, but Dame has been so central and so loyal to Portland, especially given the turmoil around ownership, GM, and coach this offseason, that moving on from Dame, especially if he hasn't demanded it, would likely cause a ton of blowback that I'm sure the franchise would like to avoid. I continue to think that the best move would be to trade CJ+ for Simmons, but a) Olshey seems to like the CJ/Dame fit better than anyone else on this planet and b) who knows if Morey would be willing to do that anyway. Absent that possibility (or another such move) I think the Blazers have to reload around Dame this season regardless, though them demanding a trade after another not-quite-good-enough year would be a fine outcome for the franchise if they can avoid a total PR black eye. (I'm not sure they can, but that is another question entirely...)

(This is a bit squishy, but I agree with TFTIO's point about Simmons seeming like a jerk, and it's part of why I think the Blazers should trade CJ rather than Dame. Dame has built the culture in Portland and has been part of the reason they've brought in players they thought could cause friction. I don't think CJ has nearly the cultural cache, on the team or in the league, so I think it's a lot less likely he could get Simmons to buy in.)
   4316. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 31, 2021 at 02:23 PM (#6037437)
I like the fit of Simmons next to Towns and Edwards, but he seems like a colossal jerk, so ... maybe not?


I think the Wolves are one of the best on court fits for Simmons, but it is hard to find a trade that works and at the price you are paying (salary plus assets) it is tough for a non-shooter (anti-shooter?) to be worth it in the modern NBA.

I tend to ignore personality fits, because who the heck knows? Not me, I have never met any of these people, so no clue.
   4317. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: August 31, 2021 at 03:08 PM (#6037451)
I'm not going to pretend that I know how the personalities mesh, but I don't like rooting for jerks.
   4318. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 31, 2021 at 03:27 PM (#6037456)
Fair enough, though KG was a major tool from everything I can tell.
   4319. PJ Martinez Posted: August 31, 2021 at 04:01 PM (#6037469)
This appears to be a stronger report (though still reliant on anonymous sources) saying the same thing, that Simmons has said he won't show up to camp.
   4320. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: August 31, 2021 at 06:32 PM (#6037532)
Rondo: Like I said the first time the Lakers brought him in, the only playoff series that Davis won in NO was with Rondo, and then ofc they won the title with him in LA in 2020. So, I expect that the delta, to use the parlance that I have heard here, is pretty large between how Davis and James see Rondo and how sabermetrics commentariat types of all stations see him. That said, with Westbrook, Horton-Tucker, Nunn, Monk, Bazemore, and Ellington all under contract, adding Rondo would seem to create a real challenge for Vogel. Supposedly Davis, James and Westbrook all wanted Dudley to stay. I see it as highly unlikely to say the least that Rondo wants to be a 14th man/clubhouse guy/de facto assistant coach like Dudley was. Also, having looked these guys over a little more since the flurry of cheap signings, I don't get why Monk signed here. I mean, I get why Pelinka did it, but while Monk is nothing special, a guy his age who seems like he is on track to be a decent player signing a ring-chaser deal with the Lakers seems odd to me
--maybe I am missing something, or maybe he took bad advice from his agent. A guy in Monk's position needs to be maximizing $ and playing time ISTM.

On a related note, a couple of LakerLand blog/podcast guys are calling the team "The Expendables", after the Stallone/Statham movie franchise built around aging/over-the-hill action stars. I think it is both apt and amusing, I hope it catches on, and I would look into seeing if I could do some kind of ad/licensing tie-in if I ran marketing for the Lakers.

Garnett: Based on everything I read about him while he was active, a lot of players swore by him. The stuff he did--ref-baiting, sometimes playing dirty, trashtalking--doesn't really hurt with your rep with other players, especially when you are a Hall of Famer who plays hard. I think it was mostly opposing fans who thought he was a dick.

Portland: I am not a big fan of Larry Nance Jr's game, but he is a good fit there. FTO is correct IMO--from a pure $/performance standpoint, you probably move Lillard. But in the real world, I don't think it is time for that yet. I would try to trade for Simmons without giving up Lillard, although it seems highly unlikely that Morey does that.
   4321. PJ Martinez Posted: August 31, 2021 at 06:39 PM (#6037537)
From Philly reporter Jason Dumas, FWIW:
Source: There’s a high chance that Tyrese Maxey will be a part of any Ben Simmons trade.

Rich Paul would like both of his clients out of Philadelphia.

A few local Philadelphia based organizations had planned on partnering with Maxey on some community events. They were told to cancel those plans. Paul would not like Maxey to grow roots in Philly if he could be gone.
   4322. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: August 31, 2021 at 06:40 PM (#6037538)
Sounds like Simmons is just secretly a great team player and trying to ensure his new team gives up as little as possible for him.

Of all the rumored trades, I think McCollum+ is probably the best fit for both teams, unless the Kangz get involved. Even if Blazers should trade Lilliard, don't see why they'd want to do so for Simmons. Might as well do an actual rebuild at that point.
   4323. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: August 31, 2021 at 08:04 PM (#6037550)
trade machine: who says no?
   4324. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: August 31, 2021 at 08:42 PM (#6037555)
Simmons wants to change workplaces, as James Harden did, and as Anthony Davis did, as in-demand workers do across many industries, and it’s only his (and his agent’s) responsibility to make that change amenable to Philadelphia’s front office up to a point. It’s certainly not his responsibility to maximize his soon-to-be-former employer’s leverage. If the Sixers’ executives can’t trade him for what they regard as fair market value, they ought to trade him for what the market regards as fair market value—certainly someone will take a 25-year-old three-time all-star at some price!—and if they won’t, then they’re not entitled to his work, beyond hitting him with collectively bargained fines. That’s all very straightforward. That (what certainly seems like) his camp is making this case essentially by arguing that Ben Simmons actually isn’t as valuable as Sixers general manager Daryl Morey thinks he is nevertheless makes this among the saddest and most humiliating leverage plays in memory: It’s not my client’s problem that he’s not very desirable to other teams; the issue is that the 76ers simply have way too high an opinion of what he’s worth.
   4325. asinwreck Posted: September 01, 2021 at 08:23 AM (#6037618)
What the Cavaliers definitely needed was another big man.
Shams Charania @ShamsCharania
The Cleveland Cavaliers have agreed to a one-year, non-guaranteed deal with 7-foot-5 center Tacko Fall, agents Bill Duffy and Justin Haynes of @BDA_Sports told @TheAthletic @Stadium. Fall played his first two NBA seasons in Boston.
   4326. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: September 01, 2021 at 09:08 AM (#6037621)
and if they won’t, then they’re not entitled to his work,

Actually they are since Simmons signed a five-year contract to play for the Sixers.

This is the part of the player empowerment movement that I really can't get on board with. If you want to do what LeBron did and sign a bunch of one-year deals to maximize your leverage, more power to you. But if you want the long-term financial stability, then yes you will sacrifice some flexibility.
   4327. jmurph Posted: September 01, 2021 at 09:41 AM (#6037625)
For what it's worth I don't think this Simmons/Klutch stuff really changes anything? No one actually believed Morey was fine bringing him to pre-season, the value was already low, etc. Morey probably already waited too long to make a deal? But who knows!
   4328. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: September 01, 2021 at 10:02 AM (#6037635)
It sure seems possible that Morey already has a handle on what's out there trade-wise, that he's just holding out hope for getting a bit more from either the team that's already interested or some new mystery team?

I guess if you do that then you run the peril of living through all this DRAMA, and you run the risk of what's out there trade-wise evaporating, but maybe those are both risks the Sixers are justifiably willing to live with.
   4329. asinwreck Posted: September 01, 2021 at 10:11 AM (#6037638)
Could be Morey has 2-3 offers he's considering and is waiting to see if one team blinks and throws in a little more, Or, a 3-way deal could be struck. The Markkanen saga dragged on and was going to be a Chicago-Portland deal, but the Bulls wanted another draft pick so Cleveland got roped in and Portland got Nance. What kinds of possibilities exist for a Philadelphia-Minnesota-Toronto deal?
   4330. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 01, 2021 at 10:19 AM (#6037641)
The obvious problem with the whole deal is that it is counter to how these deals run. When you typically trade a max player you are searching for assets (typically long and medium-term) in return. Philly is looking to trade an established player for another established player that fits on their team (plus potentially other assets).

That is much trickier to do. Especially since Simmons has such notable flaws - which is why Philly is trying to move off him.

Philly likely either has to get less talent that fits better or maximize the trade return but getting less talent right now. Pennies on the dollar sucks, but they have a window based on Embiid's health, and future value doesn't help them nearly as much.

Maybe Morey will do magic and get a better player, who fits their team better, and also future assets. But I doubt it.
   4331. DCA Posted: September 01, 2021 at 10:29 AM (#6037643)
The obvious partner was Houston (for Harden) but that didn't happen.

Then the obvious deal is Portland (Dame for Simmons+, or CJ+ for Simmons) and I guess that's still a possibility.

The other obvious deal is Kings (Fox+ for Simmons) but I haven't seen any smoke there.

I have been reading that Minny is interested. But not for Towns, Russell, Edwards, or maybe even Beasley. I don't see anything in it for Philly (even if those guys were on the table) so there has to be a third team involved. Maybe Maxey, salary, and a million picks to the Thunder and SGA to Philly?
   4332. DCA Posted: September 01, 2021 at 10:29 AM (#6037644)
double post
   4333. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: September 01, 2021 at 10:32 AM (#6037645)
I think Mouse has it right. I think it's also interesting because Morey seems like a guy who believes strongly in decontextualized measures of player value, and that's just not gonna get it done in this situation. So, even if Minnesota doesn't end up with Simmons -- and I don't see a way to make that happen -- I'm popping corn and settling in on this.
   4334. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: September 01, 2021 at 12:00 PM (#6037670)
Agreed.
——
Capela extends with ATL 2/46. (This is through 2024-2025)
I don’t think I would have done that.
   4335. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 01, 2021 at 01:09 PM (#6037684)
I don’t think I would have done that.


As the player or the team?
   4336. tshipman Posted: September 01, 2021 at 01:29 PM (#6037689)
Right, Morey's approach is to set a value and try to avoid taking a terrible deal from a value perspective, but it's vulnerable to this kind of thing from Simmons. Morey was trying to pretend that he didn't have pressure to make a deal, so he could set a market, but Simmons ultimately has more leverage than Morey does.
   4337. GregD Posted: September 01, 2021 at 01:46 PM (#6037693)
Simmons ultimately has more leverage than Morey does


What happens contractually if Simmons literally doesn't show up at training camp? At games? Does he get docked per day? Is there a point where his contract voids?

Depending on how that works, I could imagine that the Sixers could--not would but could--reach a point where the offers in return are so damaging to the team that they'd rather force Simmons to break his contract than trade him. That's an extreme case even if the contract allows it. But I'm not certain every bit of leverage is on Simmons' side

In reality I suspect Sixers are slow playing to see if they can scare up more bidders. And training camp is six weeks away so the urgency is narrative, not concrete
   4338. Willard Baseball Posted: September 01, 2021 at 01:52 PM (#6037695)
They probably need to get something done before opening night. That is probably the actual deadline. A lot of this is just a lack of important NBA deals right now. It is a year-round league, but these next 6 weeks are about the only downtime the league has.

   4339. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: September 01, 2021 at 01:57 PM (#6037698)
i'm going to start by acknowledging that i've gotten a few things wrong about this situation over the last few months. however, i think i'm still going to double down:

-- the sixers already have a completed deal for simmons and they can send it to the league office at any time. i thought this was going to happen on draft night, but that probably wasn't a hard deadline for the sixers front office (especially given damian lillard's situation in POR).

-- i still think the on court relationship between simmons and the sixers is salvageable, assuming that simmons doesn't go for the nuculur option and hold out into the regular season. long term, simmons still needs to go, but short term, i'm not convinced this is going to blow up as easily as people think.

-- i have probably underestimated the influence of klutch on this situation, especially given the allegations by nerlens noel about klutch ignoring the sixers, as cited on a previous page. they are willing and eager to burn #### to the ground.
   4340. tshipman Posted: September 01, 2021 at 02:32 PM (#6037709)
What happens contractually if Simmons literally doesn't show up at training camp? At games? Does he get docked per day? Is there a point where his contract voids?


He loses money every day he does not report to camp. Simmons has signaled that he is willing to do this.

He probably is not willing to forfeit game checks, so the nuclear option is to hold out of training camp, show up at the last minute, and play at less than full effort in game.
   4341. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: September 01, 2021 at 04:23 PM (#6037757)
As the team, Mellow Mouse. (I suffer from the affliction of approaching this stuff from the team’s perspective, even as I root for the players to get paid as a collective). He was already under contract for two more years and is unlikely to develop the other skills he’d need to justify that kind of pay if he loses athleticism.
   4342. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 01, 2021 at 04:31 PM (#6037762)
Got it. Agreed.
   4343. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: September 01, 2021 at 05:14 PM (#6037781)
For clarity, I love the criticism, I love when I’m told I can’t do something. It makes me work harder to prove everyone wrong but not everyone is built like that.

— Joel “Troel” Embiid (@JoelEmbiid) September 1, 2021


i'm going to go ahead and assume joel embiid knew exactly what he was saying here.
   4344. GregD Posted: September 01, 2021 at 05:48 PM (#6037800)
He also posted this today though in response to an article saying he pushed for the team to choose between them:

Sources “Trust me bro”!! Stop using my name to push people’s agendas. I love and hate drama. I love playing with Ben. Stats don’t lie. He’s an amazing player and we all didn’t get the job done. It’s on me personally. I hope everyone is back cuz we know we’re good enough to win
   4345. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: September 01, 2021 at 11:31 PM (#6037909)
He also posted this today though in response to an article saying he pushed for the team to choose between them:
yes, but my quote was funnier, especially without the relevant context.
   4346. asinwreck Posted: September 02, 2021 at 09:33 AM (#6037953)
The Nets signed Paul Millsap. I like what Sean Marks has done this offseason.
   4347. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: September 02, 2021 at 10:30 AM (#6037961)
Brooklyn - I mostly do as well. Surprised that Jordan wasn't flipped but Marks' plan may be better here than what I had in mind.
   4348. jmurph Posted: September 02, 2021 at 11:04 AM (#6037969)
Yeah I kind of had the sense Millsap might be cooked but he was still pretty decent last year. Obviously he's a limited minutes guy at this point in his career, but this is a solid move. They have a lot of quality players on the bench.
   4349. asinwreck Posted: September 02, 2021 at 11:31 AM (#6037974)
I imagine Jordan will be bought out. Shams says the Nets are still in on LaMarcus Aldridge, who just got cleared to play.
   4350. tshipman Posted: September 02, 2021 at 12:30 PM (#6037988)
Millsap is kind of a great pickup for a minimum. He's maybe trending towards cooked and can't really do anything on offense any more, but you can put him in a switching system for Brooklyn at C and I like him more than Blake.
   4351. What if I planted tomatoes Posted: September 02, 2021 at 12:38 PM (#6037990)
Regarding the Nets someone who knows and understands team dynamics shared that she wondered if there was going to be enough ball to go around. That since it's all about playing time having too many quality players who believe (maybe rightly) that they merit more playing time might make Nash's job even tougher than it is and coaching is already a tough job.



   4352. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: September 02, 2021 at 01:33 PM (#6037997)
on millsap being cooked on o and trending down - he's certainly trending down, as you'd expect at his age. but he still posted a near league average ts% at a slightly below average usage rate (18.6), while being a solid passer for a big. no longer an asset on that end (big part of it - he goes to the line less now and is a ho hum three ball guy) but has yet to be a problem on that end. (raptor, fwiw, "thinks" his o will drop off this year which - again - he's 36). people comping him to gs getting david west are onto something, i think.
   4353. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 02, 2021 at 01:58 PM (#6038000)
Regarding the Nets someone who knows and understands team dynamics shared that she wondered if there was going to be enough ball to go around. That since it's all about playing time having too many quality players who believe (maybe rightly) that they merit more playing time might make Nash's job even tougher than it is and coaching is already a tough job.


I think that will be a problem after next year. This next year I think the "eyes on the prize" aspect will keep the big three in line, and that keeps everyone else in line.
   4354. tshipman Posted: September 02, 2021 at 02:10 PM (#6038001)
on millsap being cooked on o and trending down - he's certainly trending down, as you'd expect at his age. but he still posted a near league average ts% at a slightly below average usage rate (18.6), while being a solid passer for a big.


You have to consider that Millsap played an unusually high percentage of his minutes with Jokic (74%) in the regular season.

Outside of those minutes, he was a significantly worse player, which is what you would expect from an older vet who can't really create his own shot. In the playoffs, when rotations changed and he didn't get to play with Jokic any more, his ts% went down significantly to .520 (although his usage did increase).
   4355. What if I planted tomatoes Posted: September 02, 2021 at 02:53 PM (#6038005)
4353--that's definitely possible.
   4356. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: September 02, 2021 at 03:16 PM (#6038010)
4354 - good point, tship. that said - if i'm running brooklyn, i'm staggering star minutes anyway, so he should get to be in similar situations to what he saw in denver in that regard.
   4357. DCA Posted: September 02, 2021 at 03:19 PM (#6038012)
Regarding the Nets someone who knows and understands team dynamics shared that she wondered if there was going to be enough ball to go around. That since it's all about playing time having too many quality players who believe (maybe rightly) that they merit more playing time might make Nash's job even tougher than it is and coaching is already a tough job.

I think there's plenty of ball to go around. It only has to shared between KD, Harden, and Kyrie, and I think they can do it. And it might be unusual to have all three healthy at the same time.

Not enough ball for other guys on the team? Maybe. But so what, you're not all-NBA, get with the plan or sit out, you're expendible.
   4358. tshipman Posted: September 02, 2021 at 03:31 PM (#6038013)
Warriors with an unusually strong denial of the Ben Simmons stuff:

The Warriors front office isn’t currently split on whether or not to accept a Ben Simmons trade offer from Philadelphia. There isn’t — and has never been — a realistic one on the table for them to discuss. Talks can’t be considered dead because they’ve never even really been alive, multiple sources confirm.

The Warriors were among the teams Daryl Morey called during his initial round of over-the-top inquiries. That came before the draft. As has been reported, he asked for a package of Andrew Wiggins, James Wiseman, the seventh and 14th picks and two future first-rounders. There was never bargaining. There was only a decline and a hang up.


Technically anonymous, but has to be sourced in the Warrior FO.
   4359. PJ Martinez Posted: September 02, 2021 at 08:59 PM (#6038058)
Just saw a (slightly incorrect) version of this stat on another board, and checked the numbers, and thought it was kind of wild:

In the thirty-one seasons between 1980 and 2010, eight different teams won the NBA championship.

In the eleven seasons between 2011* and 2021, eight different teams won the NBA championship.

* aka, since the Decision
   4360. tshipman Posted: September 03, 2021 at 12:29 PM (#6038118)
Well, some of us didn't get the Memphis trade for Juancho and some other guy who I can't remember, and now it gets more inexplicable:

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
34m
Memphis has agreed to trade forward Juancho Hernangomez to Boston for guards Kris Dunn, Carsen Edwards and a 2026 second-round pick swap, sources tell ESPN.
   4361. JJ1986 Posted: September 03, 2021 at 12:36 PM (#6038119)
Dunn can be useful, but I don't think Memphis has much use for him.
   4362. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: September 03, 2021 at 12:39 PM (#6038120)
Well, some of us didn't get the Memphis trade for Juancho and some other guy who I can't remember, and now it gets more inexplicable:
memphis seems like the kind of front office that might inordinately value a defender like kris dunn.

   4363. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: September 03, 2021 at 01:45 PM (#6038126)
Does Memphis have some sort of exemption to the roster size limit that no one else knows about? They had a full roster, and they just keep trading for more guaranteed contracts. They traded Valanciuanas for Bledsoe and Adams; then Bledsoe for Beverley, Rondo, and Oturu; then Beverley for Juancho and Culver; and now Juancho for Dunn and Carsen Edwards. Are they getting cash in all these deals or something? They already waived Rondo and as it currently stands I think they'll need to waive 3-4 more guys before the season.
   4364. jmurph Posted: September 03, 2021 at 01:49 PM (#6038127)
Carsen Edwards was a good shooter in college, and has been a very (very, very) willing shooter in short minutes in the NBA. I guess there's a chance he can do something with more minutes.

   4365. jmurph Posted: September 03, 2021 at 01:51 PM (#6038128)
I don't like Dunn much as a player. I also don't like Juancho much as a player. But I sort of got the idea of Dunn being part of the rotation, and I don't see it for Juancho.
   4366. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: September 03, 2021 at 04:09 PM (#6038145)
You always love to see former Wolves players swapped one for the other.
   4367. I am going to be Frank Posted: September 03, 2021 at 04:35 PM (#6038152)
This is quite the Nets-Pistons blockbuster. Although last year's Nets-Pistons trade got the Nets Bruce Brown.
   4368. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: September 03, 2021 at 04:38 PM (#6038153)
i don't know how healthy dunn is - that would drive my thoughts here. in a vacuum, he's better and cheaper than juancho. of course, memphis won't keep him / doesn't need him.
   4369. Fourth True Outcome Posted: September 03, 2021 at 04:39 PM (#6038154)
But I sort of got the idea of Dunn being part of the rotation, and I don't see it for Juancho.

The Schroeder signing torpedoed any need the Celtics had for Dunn while ensuring the team was thin at PF. I think in a vacuum I like Dunn more, but Hernangomez is immediately the second-best actual 4 on the roster (unless you are down on Grant Williams, higher than me on Jabari Parker, or very optimistic about Horford's mobility and fit with Rob Williams). He'll eat some regular season minutes productively, just hopefully not many.
   4370. asinwreck Posted: September 03, 2021 at 04:46 PM (#6038155)
Sean Marks is good.
Adrian Wojnarowski@wojespn
ESPN Sources: Brooklyn is trading C DeAndre Jordan, four future-second round picks and $5.78M to Detroit for Jahlil Okafor and Sekou Doumbouya. Pistons plan to work through a buyout on two-years, $20M owed Jordan; Nets will save $47M in salary and tax on deal.
   4371. JJ1986 Posted: September 03, 2021 at 04:47 PM (#6038156)
Is Doumbouya worthless?
   4372. tshipman Posted: September 03, 2021 at 05:03 PM (#6038161)
That deal is a bit mind boggling.

They take on 20 million in dead money, trade Dombouya and don't even get a first??
   4373. asinwreck Posted: September 03, 2021 at 05:19 PM (#6038163)
And woj reports the Nets just signed Aldridge.

I bet the Nets will flip Doumbouya for a pick or two.
   4374. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: September 03, 2021 at 07:01 PM (#6038172)
There were rumors that the pistons might cut Sekou, which never struck me as credible but was enough that when this deal came out I metaphorically slapped my forehead as if to say of course…

They’re supposedly gonna waive Alize Johnson. I’d absolutely pick him up if I could despite his tininess and lack of an outside shot.
   4375. asinwreck Posted: September 03, 2021 at 07:25 PM (#6038175)
Alize Johnson would be a good pickup for the Bulls, who really wanted Millsap.
   4376. JJ1986 Posted: September 03, 2021 at 09:15 PM (#6038188)
I believe that everyone on the Pistons was added to the roster in the last 10 months.
   4377. spivey 2 Posted: September 03, 2021 at 09:50 PM (#6038203)
Also a big fan of the Millsap signing. Brooklyn clearly had the best team and they they went and had probably the best offseason. I take them over the East field, for sure. Crazy but I think +240 is a pretty good price for them. I agree most players are gonna stay in line because they didn't win it all last year, and a bunch of the team hasn't won a title before. Blake, Millsap, Mills, etc. all know the deal when they're joining this team. Blake fit pretty well last year.
   4378. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: September 04, 2021 at 12:10 AM (#6038227)
DeAndre Jordan is apparently the next one up to join the cast of "The Expendables: Hardwood" out here in LakerLand. Marc Gasol will it seems finish his career elsewhere.
   4379. Willard Baseball Posted: September 04, 2021 at 10:07 AM (#6038257)
Alize played college basketball about 12 minutes from my house. He draws rave reviews from everyone associated/around the program at that time. Hasn't been able to get in the right situation to get big minutes, but he can really rebound.
   4380. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: September 04, 2021 at 02:12 PM (#6038285)
Jason Jones @mr_jasonjones
Per sources, the @thebig3 will have Co-Rookies of the Year: 3 Headed Monster's Kevin Murphy and Trilogy's Jarrett Jack. They'll face each other in today's championship game.

   4381. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: September 04, 2021 at 02:54 PM (#6038291)
Alize: can pass a little too, though you don’t necessarily want him in positions where he has the ball to pass it. Not a hopeless shooter either though I don’t think he’ll ever approach average or non-liability.
   4382. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: September 04, 2021 at 10:52 PM (#6038347)
Unvaccinated NBA players will have lockers as far away as possible from their vaccinated teammates and will have to eat, fly and ride buses in different sections as part of the league's anticipated COVID-19 health and safety protocols. The protocols were released to teams Thursday in a memo obtained by ESPN.
...
On flights, the memo says unvaccinated players may be required to be in a section of the plane reserved for team staffers, which could mean less-roomy seating. On buses, unvaccinated players would have to sit away from other players or in a separate bus from vaccinated players.

link
   4383. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: September 05, 2021 at 12:50 AM (#6038356)
I get that it's punitive to try to incentivize people to get vaccinated, but isn't putting all the unvaccinated people in a group together (as opposed to mixed with vaccinated people) like the last thing you would want to do to limit COVID-19 spread?
   4384. smileyy Posted: September 05, 2021 at 01:07 AM (#6038357)
I get the feeling that there's a punitive aspect to the requirements.
   4385. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 05, 2021 at 12:44 PM (#6038369)
When your carrots and sticks are limited by contracts and the CBA, you use the tools you have. And the Association would like to limit the amount of time lost due to anti-vax stupidity, and so ...
   4386. BDC Posted: September 05, 2021 at 07:35 PM (#6038418)
I have been "obsessively" following this on our Discord because several former UT-Arlington players are Paralympian basketball players, but: the results from Japan:

Men's Wheelchair Basketball:
Gold: USA
Silver: Japan
Bronze: Great Britain

Women's Wheelchair Basketball:
Gold: Netherlands
Silver: China
Bronze: USA

Congratulations to all!
   4387. CFBF is Obsessed with Art Deco Posted: September 05, 2021 at 07:45 PM (#6038419)
Not a hopeless shooter either though I don’t think he’ll ever approach average or non-liability.


This is the worst highlighted Yelp review ever.
   4388. asinwreck Posted: September 06, 2021 at 06:02 PM (#6038493)
Alize Johnson would be a good pickup for the Bulls, who really wanted Millsap.

And now the Bulls have signed both him and Stanley Johnson.
   4389. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: September 07, 2021 at 09:15 AM (#6038550)
i know they need fours but will they keep both guys? (signed matt thomas too)
   4390. asinwreck Posted: September 07, 2021 at 11:56 AM (#6038566)
Thomas looks like a camp invite rather than a guaranteed contract, and I wonder if he's around as insurance in case Coby White is slow to return from labrum surgery. Alize Johnson got a 2-year minimum deal, and I bet he'll see at least 10 minutes a game at the 4 given his energetic rebounding in about that much time for the Nets at the end of the regular season. Stanley Johnson's role will also depend on how Donovan uses the Jrs (Derrick Jones Jr. & Troy Brown Jr.), but I am pleased the team upgraded its bench depth with competent defenders.
   4391. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: September 07, 2021 at 04:37 PM (#6038588)
in ex-bulls news, phoenix signed chandler hutchison.
   4392. asinwreck Posted: September 07, 2021 at 07:32 PM (#6038605)
The defending western conference champs can trot out a lineup with Cameron Payne and Chandler Hutchison, giving Gar Forman no small amount of pride.

News on the new Bulls contracts:
Bobby Marks @BobbyMarks42
Contract info on the signings in Chicago:

Stanley Johnson, Ethan Thompson and Matt Thomas are non-guaranteed.

Alize Johnson has a $250K guarantee if no waivers by 10/19. His second year has a 7/2 guaranteed date.

13 guaranteed and 4 non
   4393. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: September 08, 2021 at 02:05 PM (#6038707)
a handful of e10 signings are trickling in as teams prepare for camp. i still think luke kornet (signed with boston) can play a little - a better defender than you'd think who could hit a three until the last two seasons.
   4394. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: September 08, 2021 at 04:23 PM (#6038735)
a handful of e10 signings are trickling in as teams prepare for camp. i still think luke kornet (signed with boston) can play a little - a better defender than you'd think who could hit a three until the last two seasons.
what's e10?
   4395. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: September 08, 2021 at 05:41 PM (#6038766)
Ky Carlin @Ky_Carlin
Ben Simmons believes it’s not his job to fix his trade value #Sixers pic.twitter.com/x487WuiLUA

   4396. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 08, 2021 at 06:07 PM (#6038774)
Maybe Ben realizes that a lower trade value means his destination team will be better, not having traded a ton away for a guy who needs a Sherpa guide to find the hoop.
   4397. we all water; we all 57i66135 Posted: September 09, 2021 at 12:12 AM (#6038869)
Maybe Ben realizes that a lower trade value means his destination team will be better, not having traded a ton away for a guy who needs a Sherpa guide to find the hoop.

at the risk of delving into the eminently respectable field of armchair psychology, i'm not sure it's a good thing for this ####### guy to be so self-aware of his own limitations and deficiencies.
   4398. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: September 09, 2021 at 11:25 AM (#6038904)
at the risk of delving into the eminently respectable field of armchair psychology, i'm not sure it's a good thing for this ####### guy to be so self-aware of his own limitations and deficiencies.

Yeah, I'd be wary of spending any time in Simmons' brain, were I him.
   4399. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: September 10, 2021 at 02:51 PM (#6039047)
marc gasol (who will be waived) to memphis with cash and a 24 2nd (saves luxury tax).
   4400. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: September 10, 2021 at 07:12 PM (#6039102)
Vanderbilt stays with the Wolves for 3/13.8 (per Woj); that was the last significant restricted free agent on the board (apologies to his teammate McLaughlin).
Edit: and McLaughlin also signed a 3 year deal with them (6.5m total, 2 years guaranteed)
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