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Monday, October 26, 2020

NBA Post-Bubble offseason thread

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA but we should have enough posters to fill out a mock draft regardless.

Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: October 26, 2020 at 07:08 PM | 1998 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: mock draft, nba, off-topic

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   1601. asinwreck Posted: November 21, 2020 at 12:12 PM (#5990453)
Bobby Portis to the Bucks. Second year is a player option.

Milwaukee also signed DJ Augustin [3/21].
   1602. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: November 21, 2020 at 12:19 PM (#5990456)
DJ Augustin to the Bucks too. 3 years 21 million. Should be a good fit.
   1603. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 21, 2020 at 12:23 PM (#5990458)
Melton 4/35 to stay with Mem- I like that for both sides. Unlikely he gets there, but it’s easy to put a Smart or Bledsoe comp on him.
Neto to the Wiz
That’s an overpay for DJA, no?
Portis was the BAE. He’s advanced metrics are bad and he’s awful on D — but can’t help but feel that being on a good team might push him on D a bit more? He is a talented multi lover scorer and not that old.
   1604. spivey Posted: November 21, 2020 at 12:30 PM (#5990460)
Despite being a UT alum, I've never really liked Augustin's game at the NBA level. I also don't like Bobby Portis. I presume Augustin is the MLE? I would have liked someone else there. Someone with more length. I think they're going to have a similar issue to last year where they don't have any wings with length besides Middleton. Augustin is also 33 and coming off a down year.
   1605. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 21, 2020 at 12:37 PM (#5990462)
FVV 4/85 to stay in Toronto (year 4 is a player option)

I wonder what the Knicks offered here?
—-
That’s less than the MLE for DJ.
He’s a decent player? and heady but already 33 (as you note) and tiny and not going to get any better. The FA point guard crop is bad tho.

Wonder where Reggie Jackson goes?
   1606. spivey Posted: November 21, 2020 at 12:39 PM (#5990464)
Toronto needed to keep FVV to be in fringe contention, and that's pretty good business. Surprised he didn't get closer to the max.
   1607. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 21, 2020 at 12:43 PM (#5990465)
I guess the question is who else made an offer for him - not many teams had cap room.

I said that I thought he’d be overpaid in this space a month or three back but I wonder if the Hawks really are going to drop an offer sheet on Bogdan.
   1608. jmurph Posted: November 21, 2020 at 12:45 PM (#5990467)
Surely the Knicks offered for VanVleet right?
   1609. tshipman Posted: November 21, 2020 at 12:47 PM (#5990469)
He is a talented multi lover scorer and not that old.


This sounds like Bobby Portis has regular threesomes with 45 year olds.
   1610. Paul D(uda) Posted: November 21, 2020 at 12:50 PM (#5990471)
I wonder what the Raptors could get for Lowry
   1611. jmurph Posted: November 21, 2020 at 12:50 PM (#5990472)
Hey the heart wants what the heart wants.
   1612. jmurph Posted: November 21, 2020 at 12:54 PM (#5990473)
I feel bad for Milwaukee here. It doesn’t seem like it was necessarily their fault the Kings deal blew up and now they’re scrambling. I think Augustin and Portis are very unlikely to help.
   1613. tshipman Posted: November 21, 2020 at 12:55 PM (#5990475)
The Bucks' offseason outside of Jrue makes no sense.

You're trading DJ Augustin for George Hill?
Bobby Portis for Robin Lopez?

These moves don't make any sense.

Edit: Coke to jmurph.
   1614. aberg Posted: November 21, 2020 at 12:58 PM (#5990476)
We have transitioned into the "yeah, ok, that's fine," part of the free agency cycle. Next up, "that could be sneaky good value," to be followed by "wow, I'm surprised there wasn't more of a market for that guy."

Lots of "yeah, ok, that's fine," for Cream City. Pat C, Augustin, and Portis are all useful and on acceptable money. Nothing that moves the needle like Bogey would have. Doubtful they'll find anything of that caliber until maybe the trade deadline.

Melton for 4 years seems long given the track record, but maybe they think the years are a feature since he's 22 and on an upward trajectory. High variance contract.

I like judging deals by the likelihood that the team will eventually attach assets to dump it. There are so many guys from the last two years who will eventually go to OKC with a protected future first to open up cap space for another panic buy.
   1615. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: November 21, 2020 at 01:23 PM (#5990486)
DJ Augustin is getting more money than I'd like but he should be able to pnr with Giannis and hit a bunch of threes, and I guess if you squint Bobby Portis makes sense as a Marvin Williams replacement. It's impossible to get excited about either of these moves, but I don't see any real needle-moving guys out there either.

I'm hoping the plan is to spin some of these mediocre guys and Donte at the deadline for a real upgrade on the wing.
   1616. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: November 21, 2020 at 01:24 PM (#5990487)
I realize now that I basically said the same thing as aberg. Cheers.
   1617. JJ1986 Posted: November 21, 2020 at 01:29 PM (#5990489)
Jeff Green is more useful than how many players who just got $7 million or more a season?
   1618. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 21, 2020 at 01:29 PM (#5990490)
Gordo Hawhaw to CHA 4/120
   1619. JJ1986 Posted: November 21, 2020 at 01:30 PM (#5990491)
Good job passing on a free Myles Turner, Celtics.
   1620. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 21, 2020 at 01:38 PM (#5990495)
I don’t like Green at all, tbh. He doesn’t guard consistently and the perimeter shooting can be marginal. Better than a minimum guy but I’d never end up the high bidder on him.
   1621. tshipman Posted: November 21, 2020 at 01:39 PM (#5990498)
Gordo Hawhaw to CHA 4/120


lol Charlotte.

How many draft picks will Presti get next year to take him on?
   1622. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 21, 2020 at 01:41 PM (#5990499)
That Charlotte money is stupid; they gotta clear some space to fit him in (possibly by dumping Batum?)
—-
Avery Bradley 2/11.6 to MIA
   1623. Fourth True Outcome Posted: November 21, 2020 at 01:49 PM (#5990500)
At a glance, it seems like Charlotte either needs to dump/stretch Batum or S&T with the Celtics. Boy oh boy that's quite a commitment to Haversham they're making.
   1624. CFBF's Results are Certified Posted: November 21, 2020 at 01:53 PM (#5990501)
I guess Gideon Himmelfarb's decision to opt out worked out pretty well.
   1625. JJ1986 Posted: November 21, 2020 at 01:55 PM (#5990503)
(Fake teams), Der-K, I have my Pelicans at $104.6 million after the trade with a hold for Ingram (and a minimum hold for Kenrich Williams). I'd have to give you Robin Lopez and Nicolo Melli for Dedmon (would technically have to be structured as two deals). I'm happy to do that.
   1626. PJ Martinez Posted: November 21, 2020 at 01:59 PM (#5990504)
I was hoping the Celtics would get Turner back, but seems like he was pretty disappointing last year? C's might be better off playing Theis and Time Lord (though Turner, unlike Theis, is still youngish, so we'll see).
   1627. PJ Martinez Posted: November 21, 2020 at 02:01 PM (#5990506)
Crowder signs a three-year deal with the Suns.

Edit: three years, "almost $30 million."
   1628. tshipman Posted: November 21, 2020 at 02:04 PM (#5990507)
This is like 2016 all over again.
   1629. PJ Martinez Posted: November 21, 2020 at 02:06 PM (#5990508)
What's crazy about it happening now is that the revenue situation cannot be good, right? And isn't going to be great for a little while yet, at least. But I guess the owners have a ton of money, so, you know.
   1630. asinwreck Posted: November 21, 2020 at 02:08 PM (#5990509)
OK, I see the logic behind GH opting out. I suppose the Hornets won't be boring to watch.
   1631. Fourth True Outcome Posted: November 21, 2020 at 02:16 PM (#5990510)
Wow, all four years of the Haymaker contract are guaranteed, too. I'm quite sure Charlotte had to overpay to get him, but yowza.
   1632. DCA Posted: November 21, 2020 at 02:16 PM (#5990511)
Can the Hornets still trade for Westbrook?
   1633. DCA Posted: November 21, 2020 at 02:18 PM (#5990513)
At least Gryphon Hippogriff is overpaying for a good player. Better than overpaying for a bad player.
   1634. JJ1986 Posted: November 21, 2020 at 02:18 PM (#5990514)
I think they could dump Zeller to add GH and then trade Rozier and Batum for RW.
   1635. PJ Martinez Posted: November 21, 2020 at 02:25 PM (#5990517)
Good job passing on a free Myles Turner, Celtics.
If Hayward wanted to take Charlotte's money (presumably Indiana wasn't offering this much?), I'm not sure there's anything Boston's FO could do about that. (It would, at least, take more reporting to know.)
   1636. jmurph Posted: November 21, 2020 at 02:25 PM (#5990518)
That’s just a tremendous amount of money for Hayward. Wow.

Godspeed though man, hope he stays healthy because he can still play.
   1637. tshipman Posted: November 21, 2020 at 02:26 PM (#5990519)
At least Gryphon Hippogriff is overpaying for a good player. Better than overpaying for a bad player.


Hayward is worth like 18 million per year, and he's getting paid 30.

Jae Crowder is worth the minimum, and he's getting almost 10 million per year.

Is it better to waste 12 million per year or 7 million?
   1638. jmurph Posted: November 21, 2020 at 02:26 PM (#5990520)
The Pacers rumor I saw was 4/100. This is... a lot more than that.
   1639. SteveF Posted: November 21, 2020 at 02:27 PM (#5990522)
My understanding is that they are going to stretch and waive Batum.

In order to have the salary-cap room to sign Hayward, the Hornets will waive guard-forward Nic Batum and use the NBA’s stretch provision to spread cap implications of Batum’s remaining $27 million over three seasons, an NBA source confirmed to The Observer.
   1640. jmurph Posted: November 21, 2020 at 02:27 PM (#5990523)
Yeah I agree that Crowder contract is wild too. Phoenix is weirdly going all in when two of their best players are like 23 and under.
   1641. jmurph Posted: November 21, 2020 at 02:28 PM (#5990524)
Stretching and waving a 27 million dollar expiring contract would be possibly the dumbest move in league history.

So yeah they’ll probably do it.
   1642. tshipman Posted: November 21, 2020 at 02:35 PM (#5990528)
Obviously you have to stretch your previous overpay in order to make your current overpay.
   1643. aberg Posted: November 21, 2020 at 02:36 PM (#5990529)
When you have a developing potential star, that's the perfect time to clean up your cap by letting bad deals expire or absorbing shorter ones with draft assets from teams that need quick cap space.

Charlotte, Phoenix, and New Orleans are doing the opposite. They're restricting their options to build around potential cornerstones. Charlotte is the most egregious because they just signed up for the 3-4 year project of finding out if Ball can be a stud, then immediately kneecapped themselves before even playing a game. Why would you pair a guy exiting his prime with a 19 yo who hasn't played an nba game?
   1644. aberg Posted: November 21, 2020 at 02:37 PM (#5990530)
I liked Crowder to Minnesota as a possibility to play up front and move around defensively. I figured he was a 5m guy, but they might be able to lure him away by going to 6 or guaranteeing a second year. The size of the Beasley contract probably ruled that out anyway, but whoops, I was way off.
   1645. Fourth True Outcome Posted: November 21, 2020 at 02:41 PM (#5990534)
Why would you pair a guy exiting his prime with a 19 yo who hasn't played an nba game?

Listen, when you have a chance to pay 39/per to sign a 31 year-old who hasn't had a fully health season in a few years, you shoot first and as questions later.
   1646. jmurph Posted: November 21, 2020 at 02:41 PM (#5990535)
So unless the Knicks overpay KCP he’s gotta be heading back to the Lakers right?
   1647. aberg Posted: November 21, 2020 at 02:43 PM (#5990536)
Maybe stretching the playoffs to the 10 seed is making more teams feel like they're in a position to go for it? It feels like OKC is the only team trading present for future assets, so the 29 teams in win now mode have them on speed dial and they are CLEANING UP.
   1648. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: November 21, 2020 at 02:44 PM (#5990537)
Since real draft is over, I'm not creative enough to do anything different here than the real Bulls.

1. Indiana (from Minnesota) - Stiggles - JAMES WISEMAN, MEMPHIS
2. Atlanta (from Golden State) - Der-K - ANTHONY EDWARDS, UGA
3. Charlotte - Votto - LAMELO BALL, USA/LATVIA/AUSTRALIA
4. Chicago - Moses - KILLIAN HAYES, FRANCE
5. Cleveland - Der-K - DENI AVDIJA, EUROPE
6. Atlanta - Der-K - ONYEKA OKONGWU, USC
7. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless - PATRICK WILLIAMS, FSU
8. New York - NJ in NJ - KIRA LEWIS JR - ALABAMA
9. Washington - Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant - DEVIN VASSELL, FSU
10. Phoenix - All Oriole Tragic - OBI TOPPIN, DAYTON
11. San Antonio - Hot Wheeling American - TYRESE HALIBURTON, IOWA STATE
12. Sacramento - smileyy - SADDIQ BEY, VILLANOVA
13. New Orleans - JJ1986 - AARON NESMITH, VANDERBILT
14. Boston (from Memphis) - If on a winter's night a traveling violation - TYRESE MAXEY, KENTUCKY
15. Minnesota (from Orlando)- aberg - ISAAC OKORO, AUBURN
16. Portland - mike f - JOSH GREEN, ARIZONA
17. Orlando (from Minnesota via Brooklyn via Atlanta) - Athletic Supporter - ALEKSEJ POKUSEVSKI, SERBIA/GREECE
18. Dallas - Dandy Little Glove Man - DESMOND BANE, TCU
19. Brooklyn (from Philadelphia via LA Clippers) - stevegamer - COLE ANTHONY, UNC
20. Miami - AG#1Fan - JALEN SMITH, MARYLAND
21. Philadelphia (from Oklahoma City via Orlando and Philadelphia) - tshipman - TYRELL TERRY, STANFORD
22. Denver (from Houston) - asinwreck - RJ HAMPTON, USA/AUSTRALIA
23. Utah - Booey - TRE JONES, DUKE
24. New Orleans (from Milwaukee via Indiana) - JJ1986 - XAVIER TILLMAN, MICHIGAN STATE
25. Oklahoma City (from Denver) - Thok, JALEN MCDANIELS, WASHINGTON
26. Boston - If on a winter's night a traveling violation - LEANDRO BOLMARO, FC BARCELONA
27. New York (from LA Clippers) - NJ in NJ - IMMANUEL QUICKLEY, KENTUCKY
28. Los Angeles Lakers - Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim - MALACHI FLYNN, SD STATE
29. Toronto - BaseballObscura - THEO MALEDON, FRANCE
30. Dallas (drafted by LA Clippers, from Milwaukee via Phoenix and Boston) - DLGM - PAUL REED, DEPAUL

31. LA Clippers (from Golden State, via Dallas) - stiggles - JAHMI'US RAMSEY, TEXAS TECH
32. Charlotte (from Cleveland via LA Clippers and Orlando) - Votto - ISAIAH STEWART, WASHINGTON
33. Orlando (from Minnesota) - Athletic Supporter - CASSIUS WINSTON, MICHIGAN STATE
34. Philadelphia (from Atlanta) - tshipman - PRECIOUS ACHIUWA, MEMPHIS
35. Sacramento (from Detroit via Phoenix) - smileyy - ZEKE NNAJI, ARIZONA
36. Philadelphia (from New York) - tshipman - ROBERT WOODARD, MISSISSIPPI STATE
37. Washington (from Chicago) - Mellow Mouse - NICO MANNION, ARIZONA
38. New York (from Charlotte) - NJ in NJ - CASSIUS STANLEY, DUKE
39. New Orleans (from Washington via Milwaukee) - JJ1986 - GRANT RILLER, CHARLESTON
40. Memphis (from Phoenix) - Willard Baseball - ISAIAH JOE, ARKANSAS
41. San Antonio - Hot Wheeling American - UDOKA AZUBUIKE, Kansas
42. New Orleans - JJ1986 - Justinian Jessup, Stash
43. Sacramento - smileyy - Nick Richards,
44. Chicago (from Memphis) - Moses - Devin Dotson
45. Orlando - Athletic Supporter
46. Golden State (from Portland) - DCA
47. Boston (from Brooklyn via Charlotte, Orlando and Philadelphia) - If on a winter's night a traveling violation
48. Golden State (from Dallas via Philadelphia) - DCA
49. Philadelphia - tshipman
50. Atlanta (from Miami via Sacramento, Cleveland and Boston) - Der-K
51. Golden State (from Utah via Dallas, Detroit and Cleveland) - DCA
52. Sacramento (from Houston) - smileyy
53. Oklahoma City - Thok -
54. Minnesota (from Indiana) - aberg
55. Brooklyn (from Denver) - stevegamer
56. Charlotte (from Boston) - Votto
57. LA Clippers - stiggles
58. Philadelphia (from Los Angeles Lakers via Orlando) - tshipman
59. Toronto - BaseballObscura
60. New Orleans (from Milwaukee) - JJ1986

TRADE: BROGDON, TURNER, #54 from IND to MIN for #1, RUSSELL, SPELLMAN, EVANS

TRADE: CLINT CAPELA from ATL to GSW for #2 pick

TRADE: #17 AND #33 PICK TO ORLANDO, #15 PICK TO MINNESOTA

TRADE: HARDEN, COVINGTON TO PHILADELPHIA, SIMMONS, RICHARDSON TO HOUSTON

TRADE: OJELEYE + KANTER + #30 to LAC, WILLIAMS + 2023 Detroit 2nd (top-55 protected) to BOS

TRADE: DELON WRIGHT, KLEBER TO PHOENIX, OUBRE, CAM JOHNSON TO DALLAS

TRADE: JRUE HOLIDAY TO MILWAUKEE, #24, BLEDSOE, DIVINCENZO, ROBIN LOPEZ TO NEW ORLEANS

TRADE: ROSS, FOURNIER TO GOLDEN STATE, WIGGINS, MINNESOTA 2021 1ST (TOP 3 PROTECTED) TO ORL

TRADE: TERRENCE ROSS TO POR, TREVOR ARIZA + #46 to GSW

TRADE: KANTER + PAUL REED (#30) to DAL, BOBAN + #31 to LAC
   1649. jmurph Posted: November 21, 2020 at 02:46 PM (#5990538)
Celtics now chasing Millsap.
   1650. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: November 21, 2020 at 02:50 PM (#5990539)
Yeah, this is stupid money again, which is really surprising.

Now, I don't dislike the Adams to NO as much as everyone here apparently does, but only because it's not a long term deal. OTOH, adding Adams while trading away Jrue doesn't make much sense either (though getting the picks is the right move). Maybe there's another move for NO here or they think they can trade Adams later? I mean, it's not a *good* move per se, but it's just WAY down the list of terrible moves in the last couple of days.

I also disliked the CP to PHO more than others here, and in that context adding Crowder makes some sense, but not for that money and why'd they waste their draft pick?

There's just too much going on and still too much up in the air for me to really feel that strongly in favor of much else. In a week or so if there's a way to sum up all the movement maybe then I can start forming more solid opinions (beyond the obvious terrible moves).

I still remain completely perplexed by the little to nothing the Bulls are doing. I still don't get their QO decisions, and Valentine accepted his and I've never liked him. Still just a big old questionable incomplete for me.
   1651. aberg Posted: November 21, 2020 at 03:06 PM (#5990541)
Not to rub it in, NJ, but I bet the Knicks could've added 2 or 3 future firsts in the last few days if they let teams buy their cap space with picks.
   1652. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 21, 2020 at 03:13 PM (#5990544)
I expected Crowder to get the MLE for 3 years, which is a year too long, but high bidder gotta do something to be the high bidder - right? I mean, it’s more than I’d pay but competent threes are hard to find.
Like Konchar at 4/9
Green to BKN for the min
Gary Clark 2/4.1 for ORL
—-
Will look at cap sheets in a sec...
   1653. jmurph Posted: November 21, 2020 at 03:49 PM (#5990548)
Man the list of remaining wing free agents is uninspiring.
   1654. asinwreck Posted: November 21, 2020 at 03:50 PM (#5990549)
I wouldn't be surprised to see Thaddeus Young traded before the season starts. Since he can play center, I'll put him down as going to Detroit.
   1655. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 21, 2020 at 04:07 PM (#5990553)
I imagine Young will get traded, yeah.
---
New Orleans cap: this is what I get for using another website, yeah. Ugh. I'd rather have Dedmon (who can play a little and will have some value next year as a largely unguaranteed deal) than Melli and Lopez.
---
He hasn't been able to shoot over his career but Shaq Harrison is a lunatic defensively (in a good way) and actually did stick a handful of left alone deep balls last season. I'd eyeball him for most teams.
---
Jaylen Adams signed a 2-way with Milwaukee, which is a pretty good get in terms of present value. They also had to change Connaughton's deal to 3/16. Yuck.
   1656. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: November 21, 2020 at 04:11 PM (#5990555)
At #45 Orlando selects Jordan Nwora, Louisville.

DCA/GSW on the clock at 46.
   1657. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: November 21, 2020 at 04:30 PM (#5990560)
Rondo to the Hawks at 2/15m. Say what you will, they’ll be interesting.
   1658. tshipman Posted: November 21, 2020 at 04:48 PM (#5990561)
My sleeper free agent is Garrison Matthews. He was on a two way last year, and although it was just 227 minutes, he was absolutely fantastic when he played.

He got up 7.3 3s per 36, making 41%, and while you can't call anyone on the Wizards a good defender, they were a lot better when he was on the court.

It might all be fake, but if his play in the small sample were to hold up, he'd be a pretty valuable player for pretty cheap.
   1659. jmurph Posted: November 21, 2020 at 04:51 PM (#5990562)
Millsap back to Denver for one year.
   1660. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 21, 2020 at 04:56 PM (#5990564)
10+ mil for Millsap.
—-
I think Matthews makes sense as a sleeper - except that he was so bad in the G League; that gives me pause.
   1661. aberg Posted: November 21, 2020 at 04:56 PM (#5990565)
I gave my 16 month old daughter a tiny basketball today and she immediately walked across. The yard and dunked it into a jack-o'-lantern. 2 years, full MLE.
   1662. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 21, 2020 at 04:58 PM (#5990567)
Thank goodness they don’t call traveling any more
—-
Rockets claim Kenny Wooten on waivers in a move even I don’t care about
   1663. DCA Posted: November 21, 2020 at 05:06 PM (#5990568)
At #46, GSW take Tyler Bey, Colorado

Boston/winter up for #47
   1664. aberg Posted: November 21, 2020 at 05:10 PM (#5990570)
She didn't travel. She crab dribbled.
   1665. asinwreck Posted: November 21, 2020 at 05:12 PM (#5990571)
Millsap for $10 million is less than I would have guessed for him. He must be happy to stay in Denver.
   1666. tshipman Posted: November 21, 2020 at 05:20 PM (#5990573)
The value and dollars seem completely disconnected. Paul Millsap is a good player who drives winning.

For sure, he's older than I'd like, but for one year, how do you justify paying Jae Crowder the same/more money?
   1667. asinwreck Posted: November 21, 2020 at 05:21 PM (#5990574)
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
Free agent Carmelo Anthony is finalizing a deal to re-sign with the Portland Trail Blazers, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA
@Stadium
.


Sure, Portland used him well last year, but I'm disappointed he's not signing a multi-year contract with the Knicks.
   1668. spivey Posted: November 21, 2020 at 05:31 PM (#5990576)
Jae Crowder had an impressive little run in Miami. He's still quite limited in what he can do, but he's more capable of playing playoff minutes than a lot of the guys here. Like, I think DJA may be a better regular season player than Crowder, but I don't know if he's a better playoff player.
   1669. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 21, 2020 at 05:43 PM (#5990579)
Payton got 5m for an NYK return
Nuggets are pulling Craig’s QO
   1670. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 21, 2020 at 05:48 PM (#5990580)
I can justify paying Crowder over Millsap (a better player) because Crowder can credibly guard threes, which Millsap can’t.
   1671. tshipman Posted: November 21, 2020 at 05:48 PM (#5990581)
Jae Crowder had an impressive little run in Miami. He's still quite limited in what he can do, but he's more capable of playing playoff minutes than a lot of the guys here. Like, I think DJA may be a better regular season player than Crowder, but I don't know if he's a better playoff player.


Would you rather have Jae Crowder for three years 30 million or Mo Harkless for 1 year and 3.6 million?

For me, it's pretty close, (edit: and I probably prefer Harkless) which means that the value of these contracts seems weird.
   1672. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: November 21, 2020 at 06:35 PM (#5990583)
Stretching Batum for Gildor Halfelven seems like purest 100% corn fed lunacy, right?
   1673. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: November 21, 2020 at 06:40 PM (#5990584)
   1674. spivey Posted: November 21, 2020 at 07:13 PM (#5990586)
I'd prefer Harkless, and I wish the Bucks had been in for him. He was a player I thought about some last year along the lines of "The Clippers don't need this guy, but Milwaukee could really use him."
   1675. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 21, 2020 at 07:14 PM (#5990587)
I’d rather be in a spot where I don’t want Crowder or Harkless in that situation! At those prices, I lean Harkless in a vacuum, but it would depend on the team.
   1676. jmurph Posted: November 21, 2020 at 07:39 PM (#5990589)
I agree with the main point about the contracts being weird and disconnected (especially for big men), but I think Crowder is a starter level player or 6th man for a lot of teams and Harkless is definitely not.
   1677. spivey Posted: November 21, 2020 at 07:40 PM (#5990590)
You really don't think Harkless at 1/3.6 is fine/good? For like an 9th guy on a roster who can handle the crazy switching of the tall wings in the playoffs, I think he's pretty fine. I'd rather have him than Portis, hands down.
   1678. spivey Posted: November 21, 2020 at 07:44 PM (#5990591)
Perhaps I'm a crackpot, but I'd take the DJA money and the Portis money and sign em both. Then maybe get some minimum guy for PG, give DDV and Connaughton some run there in the regular season.

May make the team worse in the regular season, second unit would be dicey depending on who you can get from the vet minimum ring chase/NBDL/2nd round draft pick pile but I think it'd be better for the playoffs.

P.S. I am not a crackpot.
   1679. jmurph Posted: November 21, 2020 at 07:46 PM (#5990592)
Spivey: if that was to me I definitely think that move was great for Miami. I was just trying to say I’m not sure they’re direct comps.
   1680. jmurph Posted: November 21, 2020 at 07:56 PM (#5990593)
Tristan Thompson to Boston 2 yrs/$19 million. I’ve never loved him but that’s a solid addition.

Need some wing depth now, and the pickings, they are slim.
   1681. tshipman Posted: November 21, 2020 at 08:00 PM (#5990594)
I agree with the main point about the contracts being weird and disconnected (especially for big men), but I think Crowder is a starter level player or 6th man for a lot of teams and Harkless is definitely not.


Man, I just do not agree with this. I get that he passed the eye test in Miami, but even last year he was a net negative both in the playoffs and the regular season, despite having a pretty fluky hot shooting 30 games in Miami.

That's with a system that is probably the best possible fit for him, where he's playing zone and spotting up. I think he'll be badly exposed in Phoenix if he tries to play starter level minutes.

That's just if you're looking at 19-20. If you consider 2018 or 2019, when he was just actively dogshit on two different playoff teams, I don't see it even more.
   1682. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 21, 2020 at 08:17 PM (#5990595)
KCP 3/40 for LAL (yr 3 is a partial guarantee)
Wanamaker 2.25 to GSW
Iwundu to DAL, maybe
   1683. jmurph Posted: November 21, 2020 at 08:31 PM (#5990596)
Wanamaker turned into a solid backup, that’s a good deal for the Warriors.
   1684. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: November 21, 2020 at 08:47 PM (#5990597)
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
Free agent C Nerlens Noel has agreed to a one-year deal with the New York Knicks, sources tell ESPN.

   1685. aberg Posted: November 21, 2020 at 09:10 PM (#5990599)
I thought the kcp money would be stupider than that.
   1686. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: November 21, 2020 at 09:12 PM (#5990600)
This should let the other dominoes fall, I bet a lot of teams were waiting to see where Nerlens Noel would end up.
   1687. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 21, 2020 at 09:44 PM (#5990602)
That is a good deal for the Warriors.

Noel got 5m, maybe too rich for Philly.
Teague to BOS. Hahaha.

Zach Lowe praised the Iwundu deal and I agree - two years for the min for that guy (solid d, not awful perimeter shot the last two years) is pretty good.
   1688. tshipman Posted: November 21, 2020 at 11:01 PM (#5990608)
I really like the Iwundu deal. His FT shooting suggests he could become a consistent shooter, and the defense is there. I'd much rather make those kinds of deals than paying some kind of premium for guys who were getting salary dumped last year.
   1689. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 21, 2020 at 11:50 PM (#5990612)
Yep

Also like Ibaka to LAC for the MLE (2 year)

Garrison Matthews staying in DC as a2 way
   1690. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: November 22, 2020 at 12:41 AM (#5990615)
Also like Ibaka to LAC for the MLE (2 year)

hot take(?):

ibaka is a downgrade from montrezl harrell
   1691. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 22, 2020 at 12:48 AM (#5990616)
Hollinger would agree; Ibaka had lousy off on numbers last year

I’ll still take Ibaka with his better d and range
   1692. tshipman Posted: November 22, 2020 at 01:25 AM (#5990617)
ibaka is a downgrade from montrezl harrell


I think not for the Clippers, but it's close.

Ibaka plays better with Kawhi and PG, since he's a pick and pop/floor spacer.
Harrell is much better as a dive guy, but you have to run PnR with him to get value.

Both are kind of equally helpless against someone like Jokic on defense, but Ibaka is probably a bit better against everyone else.
   1693. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 22, 2020 at 03:57 AM (#5990621)
KCP 3/40 for LAL (yr 3 is a partial guarantee)
It's weird feeling so optimistic, the Lakers just had a very good week. I didn't love the Schröder trade, but he's not the worst. I'm good with the Trez signing, I'm good with Matthews, I'm pleased KCP is back. JaVale is coming back. Assuming AD resigns, and if they manage to sign Marc Gasol to play 15-18 minutes a game, I'm gonna start planning the parade route.
   1694. asinwreck Posted: November 22, 2020 at 09:39 AM (#5990624)
Replacing a guy who voiced displeasure with the Clippers' locker room with a guy who won a title with Kawhi in 2019 sounds like a move to keep the two stars happy while they decide whether to re-up in 2022.
   1695. jmurph Posted: November 22, 2020 at 09:50 AM (#5990625)
I like the Ibaka fit for the Clippers a lot. Small sample and different personnel and everything but he had some very good stretches in the playoffs against Boston. Toronto probably cost themselves a game going away from him in favor of Gasol (game 5? 7? I forget).

If the choice to close out the last few minutes of a playoff game is Ibaka or Harrell, I think Ibaka is the easy answer.
   1696. spivey Posted: November 22, 2020 at 09:58 AM (#5990626)
I think Ibaka is better for the playoffs than Harrell, which is what matters.

Lakers have made good decisions. I think both teams have done better than Milwaukee in surrounding the core with decisions that slightly move the needle in the playoffs, which is what matters for this group of teams.

Boston took a step back. They shouldn't have given Hayward that contract, but the impressive thing about that team was they had 3 really nice wings, that's gone now.
   1697. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: November 22, 2020 at 10:40 AM (#5990632)
I believe that Gasol would have to take the minimum to come to LA and he'll be offered more than that. He'd be ideal for the Lakers but I don't think he's gonna be a Laker.
   1698. jmurph Posted: November 22, 2020 at 11:01 AM (#5990634)
I think Gasol is very toasty and I guess I don’t see why the Lakers need another big man? I think they’ve had a great week already.
   1699. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: November 22, 2020 at 11:27 AM (#5990638)

Boston took a step back. They shouldn't have given Hayward that contract, but the impressive thing about that team was they had 3 really nice wings, that's gone now.


Isn't that a bit contradictory? They shouldn't have given Hooble that contract, but without him, they are significantly worse. I guess the way to thread the needle is to assume they could have signed him for less?
   1700. BaseballObscura Posted: November 22, 2020 at 11:31 AM (#5990640)
Bummed to see Ibaka leave the Raptors, but if it means a sequel to the Kawhi-ep of How Hungry Are You? then I can learn to accept it.
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