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Monday, October 26, 2020

NBA Post-Bubble offseason thread

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA but we should have enough posters to fill out a mock draft regardless.

Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: October 26, 2020 at 07:08 PM | 1882 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: mock draft, nba, off-topic

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   1701. DCA Posted: November 22, 2020 at 11:32 AM (#5990641)
Flip
   1702. tshipman Posted: November 22, 2020 at 11:41 AM (#5990645)
I think the whole idea behind Marc Gasol is that he helps against Jokic.

1. I don't think you should waste a roster spot to counter one player you might not even face in the playoffs.
2. You can't really go over the minimum for that reason.

If he wants a minimum, okay, I guess.

Replacing a guy who voiced displeasure with the Clippers' locker room with a guy who won a title with Kawhi in 2019 sounds like a move to keep the two stars happy while they decide whether to re-up in 2022.


Forgot this angle. Good take.
   1703. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 22, 2020 at 12:02 PM (#5990649)
I forgot the angle too.
—-
Forbes to MIL, Giles to POR
   1704. JJ1986 Posted: November 22, 2020 at 12:08 PM (#5990652)
I kind of like Forbes for Milwaukee but they could have put out killer shooting lineups last year and didn't so I'm not sure how much use he'll be.
   1705. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: November 22, 2020 at 12:10 PM (#5990653)
My thoughts on Gasol:

1) He might be toasty as he did not have a great playoff but he was pretty good in the regular season. In the regular season last year, he was a legit-5 who can shoot the three and play good defense.
2) The Lakers basically only have the minimum to pay him and it's not like you usually get that much value from minimum guys (of course Rondo and Howard were good for the Lakers last year)
3) It's not just that he might help the Lakers but it also keeps the Clippers and other contenders FROM getting him. The Lakers won the title last year but the Clippers are still formidable team that got beat in large part because Jokic wreaked havoc.
   1706. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: November 22, 2020 at 12:20 PM (#5990656)
Bucks got Torrey Craig too, per Woj. I'm feeling a lot better this morning about the team than I did last night.
   1707. jmurph Posted: November 22, 2020 at 12:23 PM (#5990657)
Yeah good recovery for Milwaukee.

I like what Portland has done, but they’ll probably still be a mess defensively?
   1708. tshipman Posted: November 22, 2020 at 12:31 PM (#5990659)
Is Baynes still a FA? Feels like he's better than a lot of these guys.
   1709. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: November 22, 2020 at 01:05 PM (#5990667)
Yeah, I'm pretty sure he is tship.

I still have basically zero faith in the Bucks front office, but them not signing another true center to back up Brook shows they learned one thing from last year at least.
   1710. aberg Posted: November 22, 2020 at 01:11 PM (#5990668)
Too bad for Cream City that Craig and Forbes can't be combined into one sweet-shooting, wing-defending super-sub.
   1711. PJ Martinez Posted: November 22, 2020 at 01:17 PM (#5990670)
Isn't that a bit contradictory? They shouldn't have given Hooble that contract, but without him, they are significantly worse. I guess the way to thread the needle is to assume they could have signed him for less?
Saying they took a step back isn't the same thing as saying they had any say in the matter. There's no way the Celtics should have matched that offer, but they still lost a player who would have helped them.

As with the departure of Horford, who wasn't really replaced by anyone but whose loss didn't stop the team from getting better, the C's now have to hope that continued improvement from Tatum and Brown can make up for the loss of what Hayward gave them last year. I don't think that's out of the question, but there's certainly no guarantee of it.

Seems like they need one more guy on the wing, presumably a bench player. Atlanta seems confident about its Bogdanovic offer,* so I don't know who that is, and assume it won't be anyone who moves the needle much.

Edit: Bogdan has apparently signed the offer sheet.
   1712. DCA Posted: November 22, 2020 at 01:28 PM (#5990672)
Back in Mock World

1. Indiana (from Minnesota) - Stiggles - JAMES WISEMAN, MEMPHIS
2. Atlanta (from Golden State) - Der-K - ANTHONY EDWARDS, UGA
3. Charlotte - Votto - LAMELO BALL, USA/LATVIA/AUSTRALIA
4. Chicago - Moses - KILLIAN HAYES, FRANCE
5. Cleveland - Der-K - DENI AVDIJA, EUROPE
6. Atlanta - Der-K - ONYEKA OKONGWU, USC
7. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless - PATRICK WILLIAMS, FSU
8. New York - NJ in NJ - KIRA LEWIS JR - ALABAMA
9. Washington - Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant - DEVIN VASSELL, FSU
10. Phoenix - All Oriole Tragic - OBI TOPPIN, DAYTON
11. San Antonio - Hot Wheeling American - TYRESE HALIBURTON, IOWA STATE
12. Sacramento - smileyy - SADDIQ BEY, VILLANOVA
13. New Orleans - JJ1986 - AARON NESMITH, VANDERBILT
14. Boston (from Memphis) - If on a winter's night a traveling violation - TYRESE MAXEY, KENTUCKY
15. Minnesota (from Orlando)- aberg - ISAAC OKORO, AUBURN
16. Portland - mike f - JOSH GREEN, ARIZONA
17. Orlando (from Minnesota via Brooklyn via Atlanta) - Athletic Supporter - ALEKSEJ POKUSEVSKI, SERBIA/GREECE
18. Dallas - Dandy Little Glove Man - DESMOND BANE, TCU
19. Brooklyn (from Philadelphia via LA Clippers) - stevegamer - COLE ANTHONY, UNC
20. Miami - AG#1Fan - JALEN SMITH, MARYLAND
21. Philadelphia (from Oklahoma City via Orlando and Philadelphia) - tshipman - TYRELL TERRY, STANFORD
22. Denver (from Houston) - asinwreck - RJ HAMPTON, USA/AUSTRALIA
23. Utah - Booey - TRE JONES, DUKE
24. New Orleans (from Milwaukee via Indiana) - JJ1986 - XAVIER TILLMAN, MICHIGAN STATE
25. Oklahoma City (from Denver) - Thok, JALEN MCDANIELS, WASHINGTON
26. Boston - If on a winter's night a traveling violation - LEANDRO BOLMARO, FC BARCELONA
27. New York (from LA Clippers) - NJ in NJ - IMMANUEL QUICKLEY, KENTUCKY
28. Los Angeles Lakers - Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim - MALACHI FLYNN, SD STATE
29. Toronto - BaseballObscura - THEO MALEDON, FRANCE
30. Dallas (drafted by LA Clippers, from Milwaukee via Phoenix and Boston) - DLGM - PAUL REED, DEPAUL

31. LA Clippers (from Golden State, via Dallas) - stiggles - JAHMI'US RAMSEY, TEXAS TECH
32. Charlotte (from Cleveland via LA Clippers and Orlando) - Votto - ISAIAH STEWART, WASHINGTON
33. Orlando (from Minnesota) - Athletic Supporter - CASSIUS WINSTON, MICHIGAN STATE
34. Philadelphia (from Atlanta) - tshipman - PRECIOUS ACHIUWA, MEMPHIS
35. Sacramento (from Detroit via Phoenix) - smileyy - ZEKE NNAJI, ARIZONA
36. Philadelphia (from New York) - tshipman - ROBERT WOODARD, MISSISSIPPI STATE
37. Washington (from Chicago) - Mellow Mouse - NICO MANNION, ARIZONA
38. New York (from Charlotte) - NJ in NJ - CASSIUS STANLEY, DUKE
39. New Orleans (from Washington via Milwaukee) - JJ1986 - GRANT RILLER, CHARLESTON
40. Memphis (from Phoenix) - Willard Baseball - ISAIAH JOE, ARKANSAS
41. San Antonio - Hot Wheeling American - UDOKA AZUBUIKE, KANSAS
42. New Orleans - JJ1986 - JUSTINIAN JESSUP, USA/AUSTRALIA
43. Sacramento - smileyy - NICK RICHARDS, KENTUCKY
44. Chicago (from Memphis) - Moses - DEVIN DOTSON, KANSAS
45. Orlando - Athletic Supporter - JORDAN NWORA, LOUISVILLE
46. Golden State (from Portland) - TYLER BEY, COLORADO
47. Boston (from Brooklyn via Charlotte, Orlando and Philadelphia) - If on a winter's night a traveling violation - ON THE CLOCK

48. Golden State (from Dallas via Philadelphia) - DCA
49. Philadelphia - tshipman
50. Atlanta (from Miami via Sacramento, Cleveland and Boston) - Der-K
51. Golden State (from Utah via Dallas, Detroit and Cleveland) - DCA
52. Sacramento (from Houston) - smileyy
53. Oklahoma City - Thok -
54. Minnesota (from Indiana) - aberg
55. Brooklyn (from Denver) - stevegamer
56. Charlotte (from Boston) - Votto
57. LA Clippers - stiggles
58. Philadelphia (from Los Angeles Lakers via Orlando) - tshipman
59. Toronto - BaseballObscura
60. New Orleans (from Milwaukee) - JJ1986

TRADE: BROGDON, TURNER, #54 from IND to MIN for #1, RUSSELL, SPELLMAN, EVANS

TRADE: CLINT CAPELA from ATL to GSW for #2 pick

TRADE: #17 AND #33 PICK TO ORLANDO, #15 PICK TO MINNESOTA

TRADE: HARDEN, COVINGTON TO PHILADELPHIA, SIMMONS, RICHARDSON TO HOUSTON

TRADE: OJELEYE + KANTER + #30 to LAC, WILLIAMS + 2023 Detroit 2nd (top-55 protected) to BOS

TRADE: DELON WRIGHT, KLEBER TO PHOENIX, OUBRE, CAM JOHNSON TO DALLAS

TRADE: JRUE HOLIDAY TO MILWAUKEE, #24, BLEDSOE, DIVINCENZO, ROBIN LOPEZ TO NEW ORLEANS

TRADE: ROSS, FOURNIER TO GOLDEN STATE, WIGGINS, MINNESOTA 2021 1ST (TOP 3 PROTECTED) TO ORL

TRADE: TERRENCE ROSS TO POR, TREVOR ARIZA + #46 to GSW

TRADE: KANTER + PAUL REED (#30) to DAL, BOBAN + #31 to LAC
   1713. puck Posted: November 22, 2020 at 01:29 PM (#5990673)
Bucks got Torrey Craig too, per Woj.

Dammit! He's limited but combined with losing Grant, the Nuggets got a lot weaker on D.

Edit: I see, they are signing a 6'9" guy Greg Whittington who played in Turkey. Seems like a good 3 point shooter. Hmm.
   1714. tshipman Posted: November 22, 2020 at 02:03 PM (#5990681)
I like what Portland has done, but they’ll probably still be a mess defensively?


Portland seems to think that Nurkic will be all the way back next year. They also picked up Covington as a helper.

Nurk was pretty awful in a small sample size in the playoffs. Carmelo Anthony is still prominently involved. They start three arsonists on defense.
   1715. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 22, 2020 at 02:23 PM (#5990685)
Damian Jones to PHO for 2 years
Jontay Porter stays with MEM for 3/6
Hartenstein (who I’ve always wanted to see get a shot) to DEN
   1716. JJ1986 Posted: November 22, 2020 at 02:59 PM (#5990688)
The Grizzlies are just full of draft-Twitter favorites.
   1717. asinwreck Posted: November 22, 2020 at 03:01 PM (#5990689)
   1718. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 22, 2020 at 03:04 PM (#5990690)
Willie Cauley-Stein 2/8.2 to stay in DAL
Bazemore to GSW, JaKarr Sampson stays in IND
   1719. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: November 22, 2020 at 03:15 PM (#5990692)
Marc Stein @TheSteinLine
The Knicks have emerged as a potential trade partner for the Lakers in a JaVale McGee deal, league sources say, as LA explores its various options If talks progress, New York would surely require at least one additional asset from the Lakers to take McGee into salary-cap space
Albert Nahmad @AlbertNahmad
NOP portion of DEN-MIL-NOP-OKC trade was quite complex: Not only did Williams, Gray, Cheatham all need to be S&Td;, they were all subject to BYC! To trade match, NOP needed to guarantee Miller's $7M + add $2.2M. KW only counted $1.4M, and BOTH JG/ZC had to be added b/c count 50%!

   1720. tshipman Posted: November 22, 2020 at 03:19 PM (#5990694)
JaVale makes 4 million on a 1 year deal ... how big of an asset could possibly be required? A late second rounder?
   1721. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 22, 2020 at 03:33 PM (#5990696)
Charlotte still wants to #### Biyombo!

(meaning play)

Sterling Brown to HOU
   1722. aberg Posted: November 22, 2020 at 05:19 PM (#5990714)
Look at that, Knicks at least trying to rent out their cap space! James Dolan must lurk here.
   1723. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 22, 2020 at 05:26 PM (#5990715)
Trade! Tony Bradley phlipped to the Sixers for Zhaire Smith

Also, in Hernandez brother news, Juancho stays in MIN 3/21, while Willy signs for the min with the Pelicans. He can really rebound, a solid scorer, even pass a teeny bit, but is awful on D.

Supposedly, Ariza now has the record for having been traded the most times (10).
   1724. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: November 22, 2020 at 05:50 PM (#5990720)
I don't hate Juancho at 7MM/yr, although he is not going to help the screaming catastrophe that is the Minnesota defence. I also don't hate the 15MM/yr for Beasley, particularly if Edwards is indeed still growing. And I'm overjoyed to have Rubio back.
   1725. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: November 22, 2020 at 05:58 PM (#5990721)
Trade! Tony Bradley phlipped to the Sixers for Zhaire Smith
yeah, sure, fine.
   1726. JJ1986 Posted: November 22, 2020 at 06:02 PM (#5990722)
Do the Knicks have like $20 million in capsapce left with all the major transactions wrapped up? I guess they can sign Austin Rivers and Hassan Whiteside.
   1727. JJ1986 Posted: November 22, 2020 at 06:20 PM (#5990723)
I beat Woj by two minutes.
   1728. asinwreck Posted: November 22, 2020 at 06:38 PM (#5990725)
Stefan Bondy
@SBondyNYDN
Eight of the nine players acquired/drafted by Leon Rose since he took over are either CAA clients or Kentucky players. Organization going with familiarity.
   1729. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 22, 2020 at 06:46 PM (#5990727)
Bradley’s deal is a year shorter than Smith’s.

Pacers trade Leaf and a second to OKC for Lecque
   1730. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 22, 2020 at 07:00 PM (#5990731)
Woj: Minnesota is trading Omari Spellman and Jacob Evans and a future second-round pick to New York for F Ed Davis
   1731. tshipman Posted: November 22, 2020 at 07:00 PM (#5990732)
That draft day trade of Zhaire Smith for Mikal Bridges really seems like a blunder now.
   1732. asinwreck Posted: November 22, 2020 at 07:05 PM (#5990734)
The conversations between Morey and Brand this month must be interesting.
   1733. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: November 22, 2020 at 07:42 PM (#5990737)
Marc Berman @NYPost_Berman
Instead of overpaying Austin Rivers for one year with all that cap space, the Knicks are giving him 3 years for $10 million, according to ESPN. That eats into 2021 cap space. Very, very, very surprising.
That draft day trade of Zhaire Smith for Mikal Bridges really seems like a blunder now.
it was fine. getting an unprotected future first round pick to move down 6 spots is really good value, especially since they made the trade when they knew who was available, as opposed to trading down when they were on the clock.

their player evaluation/development/allergy management needed some ####### work though.
Keith Pompey @PompeyOnSixers
Jun 21, 2018
Zhaire Smith said that Brett Brown told him that he reminds him of Kawhi Leonard.
   1734. aberg Posted: November 22, 2020 at 07:43 PM (#5990738)
Does Davis have anything left in the tank? Stats look pretty bad last year in very few minutes. This roster needed a physical big, so the Davis archetype fits.

I thought Juancho and Beasley both got the right number of years (2+to, 3+to) and about 10-15% more aav than I expected. Given how many guys have got much more than that, I have no complaints. Still hard to see this roster competing for the playoffs unless someone other than KAT, DLo, Beasley, or Ricky becomes much better than expected.
   1735. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 22, 2020 at 07:44 PM (#5990739)
McGee and a second dealt to CLE - this makes room for Marc Gasol with the Lakers (he got 2 yr)

Tor adds Baynes for 2/14.3(!)

Wonder who snags Whiteside?
   1736. aberg Posted: November 22, 2020 at 07:50 PM (#5990740)
Detroit, probably.
   1737. Paul D(uda) Posted: November 22, 2020 at 07:54 PM (#5990741)
Gasol to the Lakers for two years.

Toronto is going to be thin in the front court

Edit - or not, missed the Baynes news
   1738. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: November 22, 2020 at 07:59 PM (#5990742)
Hombre wisely did not consult me on the mock draft.

Lakers moves: There was a Clippers fan who posted a lot last year on the Lakers site that I go to; I got into it with him a couple of times, saying that Harrell is overrated by some of his numbers. Clearly, I was wrong and Harrell is actually excellent.

Harrell and Schroder have never been big favorites of mine, and I expect that the Team D will not be quite as good overall. But I like that Pelinka is not standing pat and is getting younger guys, and Rondo and Howard, are, shall we say, guys who have a way of wearing out their welcomes. Not sure how much Marc Gasol will help, but he will make rooting for the team more fun for me.
   1739. jmurph Posted: November 22, 2020 at 08:00 PM (#5990744)
Baynes by himself prevents any front court from being properly called “thin.”
   1740. jmurph Posted: November 22, 2020 at 08:02 PM (#5990745)
Gasol and LeBron will cook up enough mind boggling pass sequences to make it all worth it.
   1741. Oriole Tragic Posted: November 22, 2020 at 08:03 PM (#5990746)
Is it clear yet whether or not the Galaxybrain Hubblescope signing in CHA is part of an S&T where BOS is going to end up with something back?

Or did he just decline his option and leave Ainge empty-handed?
   1742. jmurph Posted: November 22, 2020 at 08:04 PM (#5990747)
Oriole: supposedly Boston is trying to squeeze a trade exception out of it but no details yet. They’d presumably have to include a future pick to Charlotte in exchange.
   1743. Paul D(uda) Posted: November 22, 2020 at 08:05 PM (#5990748)
1739 - starting PF Chris Boucher might make them thin though
   1744. tshipman Posted: November 22, 2020 at 08:07 PM (#5990749)
I think I'd rather have Baynes than either Marc Gasol or Ibaka.
   1745. Oriole Tragic Posted: November 22, 2020 at 08:07 PM (#5990750)
jmurph: interesting. As a C's fan (right?) are you cool with that?

Hard for me to know how to grade Ainge w/r/t to the GH Era. Seems like we should either kill Ainge for the original signing, but pretty much only that.
   1746. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 22, 2020 at 08:08 PM (#5990751)
The aforementioned Boucher to stay in TOR (as we’d expect) for 2/13.5
Zhaire might be waived and stretched?
   1747. Fourth True Outcome Posted: November 22, 2020 at 08:09 PM (#5990752)
Tatum signed the full max extension for 5/195. Can't imagine that was a tough negotiation on either side.
   1748. jmurph Posted: November 22, 2020 at 08:21 PM (#5990755)
Oriole: he was a good fit whose leg exploded. Hard to hold that against anyone.
   1749. Oriole Tragic Posted: November 22, 2020 at 08:25 PM (#5990756)
jmurph: I lost the edit feature while trying to fix my last post, but I generally agree that Ainge's hands are tied.

I can see crushing Ainge for the original signing, but the rest of it (including this off-season) seems to be mostly outside Ainge's control...especially if GH chose to unilaterally opt-out.
   1750. PJ Martinez Posted: November 22, 2020 at 08:59 PM (#5990760)
I don't see how Ainge could be blamed for a flukish catastrophic leg injury! Who knows how things would have worked out otherwise.

Edit: the big Ainge move that arguably calls for revisionism is the Irving trade, given that Irving's personality was a preexisting condition.
   1751. I am going to be Frank Posted: November 22, 2020 at 09:29 PM (#5990765)
I enjoyed the Ed Davis experience with the Nets, however, even then he was very toasty. He plays hard and was great at rebounding, but he's not a shot blocker and he can't guard wings on switches. He's a zero on offense and he got overpowered a lot in the post but he will compete there. But on all accounts he's favorite in the locker room and sets a great example. If any of that rubs off on Towns, it's something.
   1752. CFBF's Results are Certified Posted: November 22, 2020 at 09:29 PM (#5990766)
Keith Pompey @PompeyOnSixers
Jun 21, 2018
Zhaire Smith said that Brett Brown told him that he reminds him of Kawhi Leonard


"For example, I'm also an awkward person with a weird, off-putting laugh."
   1753. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: November 22, 2020 at 09:46 PM (#5990768)
Edit: the big Ainge move that arguably calls for revisionism is the Irving trade, given that Irving's personality was a preexisting condition.
yeah, but ainge also (allegedly) knew the extent of isaiah thomas's injuries when he sent him to CLE, so i'd say that one still goes in the w column.
   1754. tshipman Posted: November 22, 2020 at 09:55 PM (#5990770)
Is there a column for "amoral scumbag"?
   1755. aberg Posted: November 22, 2020 at 09:57 PM (#5990771)
Boston has had a very abnormal few years. We might look back on it as mostly white noise around the drafting and development of Tatum and Brown. Those two seem to be a 50 win, conference semifinal core without much else going right.
   1756. asinwreck Posted: November 22, 2020 at 10:02 PM (#5990773)
mostly white noise

Inevitable title of a Bill Simmons Celtics podcast.
   1757. tshipman Posted: November 22, 2020 at 10:15 PM (#5990776)
drafting and development of Tatum and Brown. Those two seem to be a 50 win, conference semifinal core


I like Jaylen Brown a lot as a person, but he's not really part of any core. Net negative in the regular season and the playoffs.

Whatever big stat you care to look at, he's above average, but not a difference maker.
   1758. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: November 22, 2020 at 10:34 PM (#5990778)
Lakers personnel moves, re-litigating Danny Ainge, and now a Bill Simmons reference. Add in some Kobe Bryant stuff, some small/large market stuff, and counting superstars on league champs, and this is my Dream Convo.

Ainge: I don't entirely agree with 1755. Walker had a very typical Walker year--20 PER. Walker and Heyward (who?) were actually ahead of Tatum and Brown in WS/48 (as were Theis and Kanter--Kanter, the King of the Overrated on PER All-Stars, lead the team in that metric). Tatum is 21 and last year he spiked his USG while maintaining his efficiency, so he may be a Top-10 guy soon. I don't think he is right now. And it is worth noting that Jimmy Butler, whom Ainge supposedly passed on, and Anthony Davis, whom Ainge supposedly was scheming for two years to acquire, played against each other in the Finals on other teams.

As to the Heyward signing, I don't recall anybody here bagging big-time on Boston at the time for signing him; I certainly didn't. I have said several times that I think that Ainge is a good GM. My objection to some of the Ainge stuff was similar to my objections to the Hinkie stuff: I am not a fan of narratives that present sports executives (or business or politics executives for that matter) as being 5D chessmasters. And as noted, I am the same about coaches. No one thinks that Rob Pelinka and Frank Vogel are geniuses--and they're not.

That said, I overrated the Irving version of Boston and underrated the post-Irving version, so my take may be suspect. But I think that Boston needs a guy better than anyone they have on the current roster to get over the top, but Tatum may prove me wrong. He has plenty of time.
   1759. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: November 22, 2020 at 10:51 PM (#5990781)
The Lakers really have had an excellent offseason and I think they are the favorite to win the title next year. That is a deep and versatile roster. Obviously, LBJ and AD have to stay healthy and LeBron has to continue to fight off father time, but they are the favorites. They got better and I think the other main contenders got worse or didn't improve as much as the Lakers.
   1760. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 22, 2020 at 10:58 PM (#5990782)
Hombre wisely did not consult me on the mock draft.
I had my one man list!
   1761. aberg Posted: November 23, 2020 at 12:13 AM (#5990785)
I wasn't clear in my last post. I was trying to say that Tatum and Brown could become good enough that the rest of the roster machinations seem unimportant. They're not there yet.
   1762. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: November 23, 2020 at 12:19 AM (#5990786)
I looked up Pelton's projected WARP rankings. By those, I should take Trevelin Queen, by a healthy margin (2.3 > 1.6, the next highest); I debated doing just that. But, for a healthier diversity of inputs, I'm taking ESPN's highest-ranked (38) remaining guy who has a positive projected WARP (1.1). This is kinda funny: it's Payton Pritchard. Backup point's going to be crowded with Maxey and Waters, but he's the best bet of them as a shooter.

1. Indiana (from Minnesota) - Stiggles - JAMES WISEMAN, MEMPHIS
2. Atlanta (from Golden State) - Der-K - ANTHONY EDWARDS, UGA
3. Charlotte - Votto - LAMELO BALL, USA/LATVIA/AUSTRALIA
4. Chicago - Moses - KILLIAN HAYES, FRANCE
5. Cleveland - Der-K - DENI AVDIJA, EUROPE
6. Atlanta - Der-K - ONYEKA OKONGWU, USC
7. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless - PATRICK WILLIAMS, FSU
8. New York - NJ in NJ - KIRA LEWIS JR - ALABAMA
9. Washington - Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant - DEVIN VASSELL, FSU
10. Phoenix - All Oriole Tragic - OBI TOPPIN, DAYTON
11. San Antonio - Hot Wheeling American - TYRESE HALIBURTON, IOWA STATE
12. Sacramento - smileyy - SADDIQ BEY, VILLANOVA
13. New Orleans - JJ1986 - AARON NESMITH, VANDERBILT
14. Boston (from Memphis) - If on a winter's night a traveling violation - TYRESE MAXEY, KENTUCKY
15. Minnesota (from Orlando)- aberg - ISAAC OKORO, AUBURN
16. Portland - mike f - JOSH GREEN, ARIZONA
17. Orlando (from Minnesota via Brooklyn via Atlanta) - Athletic Supporter - ALEKSEJ POKUSEVSKI, SERBIA/GREECE
18. Dallas - Dandy Little Glove Man - DESMOND BANE, TCU
19. Brooklyn (from Philadelphia via LA Clippers) - stevegamer - COLE ANTHONY, UNC
20. Miami - AG#1Fan - JALEN SMITH, MARYLAND
21. Philadelphia (from Oklahoma City via Orlando and Philadelphia) - tshipman - TYRELL TERRY, STANFORD
22. Denver (from Houston) - asinwreck - RJ HAMPTON, USA/AUSTRALIA
23. Utah - Booey - TRE JONES, DUKE
24. New Orleans (from Milwaukee via Indiana) - JJ1986 - XAVIER TILLMAN, MICHIGAN STATE
25. Oklahoma City (from Denver) - Thok, JALEN MCDANIELS, WASHINGTON
26. Boston - If on a winter's night a traveling violation - LEANDRO BOLMARO, FC BARCELONA
27. New York (from LA Clippers) - NJ in NJ - IMMANUEL QUICKLEY, KENTUCKY
28. Los Angeles Lakers - Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim - MALACHI FLYNN, SD STATE
29. Toronto - BaseballObscura - THEO MALEDON, FRANCE
30. Dallas (drafted by LA Clippers, from Milwaukee via Phoenix and Boston) - DLGM - PAUL REED, DEPAUL

31. LA Clippers (from Golden State, via Dallas) - stiggles - JAHMI'US RAMSEY, TEXAS TECH
32. Charlotte (from Cleveland via LA Clippers and Orlando) - Votto - ISAIAH STEWART, WASHINGTON
33. Orlando (from Minnesota) - Athletic Supporter - CASSIUS WINSTON, MICHIGAN STATE
34. Philadelphia (from Atlanta) - tshipman - PRECIOUS ACHIUWA, MEMPHIS
35. Sacramento (from Detroit via Phoenix) - smileyy - ZEKE NNAJI, ARIZONA
36. Philadelphia (from New York) - tshipman - ROBERT WOODARD, MISSISSIPPI STATE
37. Washington (from Chicago) - Mellow Mouse - NICO MANNION, ARIZONA
38. New York (from Charlotte) - NJ in NJ - CASSIUS STANLEY, DUKE
39. New Orleans (from Washington via Milwaukee) - JJ1986 - GRANT RILLER, CHARLESTON
40. Memphis (from Phoenix) - Willard Baseball - ISAIAH JOE, ARKANSAS
41. San Antonio - Hot Wheeling American - UDOKA AZUBUIKE, KANSAS
42. New Orleans - JJ1986 - JUSTINIAN JESSUP, USA/AUSTRALIA
43. Sacramento - smileyy - NICK RICHARDS, KENTUCKY
44. Chicago (from Memphis) - Moses - DEVIN DOTSON, KANSAS
45. Orlando - Athletic Supporter - JORDAN NWORA, LOUISVILLE
46. Golden State (from Portland) - TYLER BEY, COLORADO
47. Boston (from Brooklyn via Charlotte, Orlando and Philadelphia) - If on a winter's night a traveling violation - PYTON PRITCHARD
48. Golden State (from Dallas via Philadelphia) - DCA - ON THE CLOCK
49. Philadelphia - tshipman
50. Atlanta (from Miami via Sacramento, Cleveland and Boston) - Der-K
51. Golden State (from Utah via Dallas, Detroit and Cleveland) - DCA
52. Sacramento (from Houston) - smileyy
53. Oklahoma City - Thok -
54. Minnesota (from Indiana) - aberg
55. Brooklyn (from Denver) - stevegamer
56. Charlotte (from Boston) - Votto
57. LA Clippers - stiggles
58. Philadelphia (from Los Angeles Lakers via Orlando) - tshipman
59. Toronto - BaseballObscura
60. New Orleans (from Milwaukee) - JJ1986

TRADE: BROGDON, TURNER, #54 from IND to MIN for #1, RUSSELL, SPELLMAN, EVANS

TRADE: CLINT CAPELA from ATL to GSW for #2 pick

TRADE: #17 AND #33 PICK TO ORLANDO, #15 PICK TO MINNESOTA

TRADE: HARDEN, COVINGTON TO PHILADELPHIA, SIMMONS, RICHARDSON TO HOUSTON

TRADE: OJELEYE + KANTER + #30 to LAC, WILLIAMS + 2023 Detroit 2nd (top-55 protected) to BOS

TRADE: DELON WRIGHT, KLEBER TO PHOENIX, OUBRE, CAM JOHNSON TO DALLAS

TRADE: JRUE HOLIDAY TO MILWAUKEE, #24, BLEDSOE, DIVINCENZO, ROBIN LOPEZ TO NEW ORLEANS

TRADE: ROSS, FOURNIER TO GOLDEN STATE, WIGGINS, MINNESOTA 2021 1ST (TOP 3 PROTECTED) TO ORL

TRADE: TERRENCE ROSS TO POR, TREVOR ARIZA + #46 to GSW

TRADE: KANTER + PAUL REED (#30) to DAL, BOBAN + #31 to LAC
   1763. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: November 23, 2020 at 01:02 AM (#5990788)
BTF Mock Orlando Magic Offseason Summary: We set out to start a multi-year tank. We did one great thing there, acquiring Andrew Wiggins (along with his juicy companion pick), and we gutted our depth, but we also still have Nik Vucevic on our roster, which I'm not super pleased with. I wouldn't give myself a high grade as fake Magic GM this offseason.

Starters (86.8M)
C Nikola Vucevic 26.0M
PF Aaron Gordon 18.1M
SF Andrew Wiggins 29.5M
SG Markelle Fultz 12.3M
PG Cassius Winston 0.9M (signing to 3-year min guaranteed contract)

Bench (18.5M):
SF Chuma Okeke 3.1M
C Mo Bamba 6.0M
C Khem Birch 3.0M
SF James Ennis 2.5M (guessing)
SG Jordan Nwora 0.9M (signing to Hinkie Special)
??? Aleksej Pokusevski 3.0M

Injured List (17.1M):
SF Al-Farouq Aminu 9.7M (should return at some point in season)
SF Jonathan Isaac 7.4M

Dead Money (5.6M):
RIP Tim Mozgov 5.6M

Total 128.0M

We have 4.6M left below the 132.6M tax line and a few roster spots to fill. Ideally, we'll re-sign MCW to the veteran minimum (1.6M against the cap), as the real-life Magic might have done (terms of contract not released), or if not, some other vet PG. Then fill out the table with youngsters on two-ways. If we end up trading Vuc (ideally) or Gordon (if we get something useful), we will pocket any savings.

Is this team bad? Yes. The bench is, like, extremely bad, and the starters are garden-variety bad. The hope is that Wiggins can shoot us into a good position to hit on the lottery. This is a multi-year tank; we'll still be pretty capped out next year, which is fine, and in fact we'd probably try to trade Gordon's attractive expiring for some more bad money and picks.

Yay tanking!
   1764. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: November 23, 2020 at 01:07 AM (#5990789)
PF Aaron Gordon 18.1M
SF Andrew Wiggins 29.5M
SG Markelle Fultz 12.3M
jesus
   1765. DCA Posted: November 23, 2020 at 06:33 AM (#5990792)
With pick 48, GSW take Sam Merrill, Utah State. Philly/tshipman on the clock for #49.

1. Indiana (from Minnesota) - Stiggles - JAMES WISEMAN, MEMPHIS
2. Atlanta (from Golden State) - Der-K - ANTHONY EDWARDS, UGA
3. Charlotte - Votto - LAMELO BALL, USA/LATVIA/AUSTRALIA
4. Chicago - Moses - KILLIAN HAYES, FRANCE
5. Cleveland - Der-K - DENI AVDIJA, EUROPE
6. Atlanta - Der-K - ONYEKA OKONGWU, USC
7. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless - PATRICK WILLIAMS, FSU
8. New York - NJ in NJ - KIRA LEWIS JR - ALABAMA
9. Washington - Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant - DEVIN VASSELL, FSU
10. Phoenix - All Oriole Tragic - OBI TOPPIN, DAYTON
11. San Antonio - Hot Wheeling American - TYRESE HALIBURTON, IOWA STATE
12. Sacramento - smileyy - SADDIQ BEY, VILLANOVA
13. New Orleans - JJ1986 - AARON NESMITH, VANDERBILT
14. Boston (from Memphis) - If on a winter's night a traveling violation - TYRESE MAXEY, KENTUCKY
15. Minnesota (from Orlando)- aberg - ISAAC OKORO, AUBURN
16. Portland - mike f - JOSH GREEN, ARIZONA
17. Orlando (from Minnesota via Brooklyn via Atlanta) - Athletic Supporter - ALEKSEJ POKUSEVSKI, SERBIA/GREECE
18. Dallas - Dandy Little Glove Man - DESMOND BANE, TCU
19. Brooklyn (from Philadelphia via LA Clippers) - stevegamer - COLE ANTHONY, UNC
20. Miami - AG#1Fan - JALEN SMITH, MARYLAND
21. Philadelphia (from Oklahoma City via Orlando and Philadelphia) - tshipman - TYRELL TERRY, STANFORD
22. Denver (from Houston) - asinwreck - RJ HAMPTON, USA/AUSTRALIA
23. Utah - Booey - TRE JONES, DUKE
24. New Orleans (from Milwaukee via Indiana) - JJ1986 - XAVIER TILLMAN, MICHIGAN STATE
25. Oklahoma City (from Denver) - Thok, JALEN MCDANIELS, WASHINGTON
26. Boston - If on a winter's night a traveling violation - LEANDRO BOLMARO, FC BARCELONA
27. New York (from LA Clippers) - NJ in NJ - IMMANUEL QUICKLEY, KENTUCKY
28. Los Angeles Lakers - Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim - MALACHI FLYNN, SD STATE
29. Toronto - BaseballObscura - THEO MALEDON, FRANCE
30. Dallas (drafted by LA Clippers, from Milwaukee via Phoenix and Boston) - DLGM - PAUL REED, DEPAUL

31. LA Clippers (from Golden State, via Dallas) - stiggles - JAHMI'US RAMSEY, TEXAS TECH
32. Charlotte (from Cleveland via LA Clippers and Orlando) - Votto - ISAIAH STEWART, WASHINGTON
33. Orlando (from Minnesota) - Athletic Supporter - CASSIUS WINSTON, MICHIGAN STATE
34. Philadelphia (from Atlanta) - tshipman - PRECIOUS ACHIUWA, MEMPHIS
35. Sacramento (from Detroit via Phoenix) - smileyy - ZEKE NNAJI, ARIZONA
36. Philadelphia (from New York) - tshipman - ROBERT WOODARD, MISSISSIPPI STATE
37. Washington (from Chicago) - Mellow Mouse - NICO MANNION, ARIZONA
38. New York (from Charlotte) - NJ in NJ - CASSIUS STANLEY, DUKE
39. New Orleans (from Washington via Milwaukee) - JJ1986 - GRANT RILLER, CHARLESTON
40. Memphis (from Phoenix) - Willard Baseball - ISAIAH JOE, ARKANSAS
41. San Antonio - Hot Wheeling American - UDOKA AZUBUIKE, KANSAS
42. New Orleans - JJ1986 - JUSTINIAN JESSUP, USA/AUSTRALIA
43. Sacramento - smileyy - NICK RICHARDS, KENTUCKY
44. Chicago (from Memphis) - Moses - DEVIN DOTSON, KANSAS
45. Orlando - Athletic Supporter - JORDAN NWORA, LOUISVILLE
46. Golden State (from Portland) - DCA - TYLER BEY, COLORADO
47. Boston (from Brooklyn via Charlotte, Orlando and Philadelphia) - If on a winter's night a traveling violation - PAYTON PRITCHARD, OREGON
48. Golden State (from Dallas via Philadelphia) - DCA - SAM MERRILL, UTAH STATE
49. Philadelphia - tshipman - ON THE CLOCK
50. Atlanta (from Miami via Sacramento, Cleveland and Boston) - Der-K
51. Golden State (from Utah via Dallas, Detroit and Cleveland) - DCA
52. Sacramento (from Houston) - smileyy
53. Oklahoma City - Thok -
54. Minnesota (from Indiana) - aberg
55. Brooklyn (from Denver) - stevegamer
56. Charlotte (from Boston) - Votto
57. LA Clippers - stiggles
58. Philadelphia (from Los Angeles Lakers via Orlando) - tshipman
59. Toronto - BaseballObscura
60. New Orleans (from Milwaukee) - JJ1986

TRADE: BROGDON, TURNER, #54 from IND to MIN for #1, RUSSELL, SPELLMAN, EVANS

TRADE: CLINT CAPELA from ATL to GSW for #2 pick

TRADE: #17 AND #33 PICK TO ORLANDO, #15 PICK TO MINNESOTA

TRADE: HARDEN, COVINGTON TO PHILADELPHIA, SIMMONS, RICHARDSON TO HOUSTON

TRADE: OJELEYE + KANTER + #30 to LAC, WILLIAMS + 2023 Detroit 2nd (top-55 protected) to BOS

TRADE: DELON WRIGHT, KLEBER TO PHOENIX, OUBRE, CAM JOHNSON TO DALLAS

TRADE: JRUE HOLIDAY TO MILWAUKEE, #24, BLEDSOE, DIVINCENZO, ROBIN LOPEZ TO NEW ORLEANS

TRADE: ROSS, FOURNIER TO GOLDEN STATE, WIGGINS, MINNESOTA 2021 1ST (TOP 3 PROTECTED) TO ORL

TRADE: TERRENCE ROSS TO POR, TREVOR ARIZA + #46 to GSW

TRADE: KANTER + PAUL REED (#30) to DAL, BOBAN + #31 to LAC
   1766. jmurph Posted: November 23, 2020 at 08:23 AM (#5990797)
So sad to have missed THAT discussion.
...
Davis to Minnesota seems to confirm that the Wolves are pretty firmly in "make Towns and Russell" happy mode, but he does honestly seem like a defensive upgrade? I'm not sure who else they have to play up front.
   1767. jmurph Posted: November 23, 2020 at 10:33 AM (#5990814)
I got stuck reading a twitter thread last night that was attempting to tie Jeremi Grant leaving Denver and Marc Gasol taking the minimum in LA as some sort of "the glamour markets dominate everything, the NBA sux" kind of thing and I was just astonished. Like A. they're 10 years apart and this could be Gasol's final season and B. the people of Detroit will be delighted to find out they're now a glamourous sports market.
   1768. jmurph Posted: November 23, 2020 at 10:38 AM (#5990816)
This is a lot more than I would have guessed:
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
Dario Saric has agreed to a three-year, $27M deal to stay with Phoenix, agents Jeff Schwartz and Mike Lindeman of
@excelsm_bball tell ESPN.

Was he good last year? (checks) Hmm not really?
   1769. NJ in NJ Posted: November 23, 2020 at 10:44 AM (#5990817)
Not to rub it in, NJ, but I bet the Knicks could've added 2 or 3 future firsts in the last few days if they let teams buy their cap space with picks.

Replying as I catch up on the thread. I woke up this morning feeling better than I have about any Knicks offseason in ages. We didn't do anything that crippled our cap space. I didn't love our top draft pick, but I didn't absolutely hate it. And we ended up with more draft picks than we started with.
   1770. NJ in NJ Posted: November 23, 2020 at 10:56 AM (#5990818)
Was he good last year? (checks) Hmm not really?

Supposedly they liked him at the 5 and since they didn't start doing that until the end of the year I doubt they're considering whole year performance.
   1771. tshipman Posted: November 23, 2020 at 11:05 AM (#5990819)
We're really approaching the limits of guys I researched.

Philly is taking Vit Krejci, guard from Barthelona.

I've already taken two backup centers, so I can't really take a third, even though all the good guys left are bigs. I don't know anything about this guy except that he got drafted in the real NBA draft at 37, so 49 is pretty decent value, and he's not a big. He is 6'8 tho, so I dunno, maybe he ends up as a euro big.

Damn you Hinkie for picking up all these pointless second round picks!
   1772. asinwreck Posted: November 23, 2020 at 11:12 AM (#5990820)
Or a big, injured guard.
Casademont Zaragoza announced in September that Krejci suffered an ACL injury that required surgery.

He was ruled out for the rest of the 2020-21 season.

Czech national team

Krejci appeared in a qualifying game for the Czech national team before the 2019 FIBA World Cup.

In practice, he played against Bulls guard Tomas Satoransky — the only current NBA player from the Czech Republic.

"It's normal that people compare us," Krejci told David Hein. "It's amazing to be compared to the best player right now in Czech Republic, but a lot of pressure too. But I think I have what it takes to be on the same level as him, or even better."
   1773. DCA Posted: November 23, 2020 at 11:14 AM (#5990821)
Supposedly they liked him at the 5

Because the one thing Phoenix needs is more centers.
   1774. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: November 23, 2020 at 11:19 AM (#5990822)
Philly is taking Vit Krejci, guard from Barthelona.



I see this a lot around so I figure this is as good a time to interject as any. The 'lisp' you sometimes encounter in Spain is an aspect of the Castilian dialect (it's not an actual lisp, since it doesn't affect the pronunciation of 's'). Barcelona is in Catalonia and there is no 'lisp' in Catalan. So of any city in Spain, Barcelona is the one you should pronounce, well, as it is spelled.
   1775. jmurph Posted: November 23, 2020 at 11:21 AM (#5990823)
I see this a lot around so I figure this is as good a time to interject as any. The 'lisp' you sometimes encounter in Spain is an aspect of the Castilian dialect (it's not an actual lisp, since it doesn't affect the pronunciation of 's'). Barcelona is in Catalonia and there is no 'lisp' in Catalan. So of any city in Spain, Barcelona is the one you should pronounce, well, Barcelona.

Wait really? The only place in Spain I've been to is Barcelona and I feel like the "lisp" was everywhere? (I also don't speak spanish so possibly just have a bad ear for it.)
   1776. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 23, 2020 at 11:51 AM (#5990828)
Atlanta selects PG Yam Madar, Hapoel Tel Aviv.

While there are domestic prospects still on the board that I think are okay, including a handful that I'll reach out to with a two-way or E10 deal in mind, I'm not wowed by anybody. Accordingly, I'm taking a stashable guy, a strong passer with the potential to become a decent to solid shooter and defender.
   1777. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 23, 2020 at 12:24 PM (#5990833)
Damyean Dotson to CLE for 2/4, Hawks tab Solomon Hill for the minimum, Markieff stays with the Lakers for the minimum.
   1778. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: November 23, 2020 at 12:35 PM (#5990837)

Wait really? The only place in Spain I've been to is Barcelona and I feel like the "lisp" was everywhere? (I also don't speak spanish so possibly just have a bad ear for it.)


There are a lot of native Spanish-speakers in Barcelona, as in every major Spanish city (the cities in the Basque country are all majority Spanish-speaking, for example).

Similarly, I went to college in Boston and hardly anyone I knew had a 'Boston' accent. Of course, most of my friends and professors were from other parts of the country.

   1779. tshipman Posted: November 23, 2020 at 12:37 PM (#5990840)
Or a big, injured guard.


I totally knew that and took him with the idea that I would stash him.

I see this a lot around so I figure this is as good a time to interject as any. The 'lisp' you sometimes encounter in Spain is an aspect of the Castilian dialect (it's not an actual lisp, since it doesn't affect the pronunciation of 's'). Barcelona is in Catalonia and there is no 'lisp' in Catalan. So of any city in Spain, Barcelona is the one you should pronounce, well, as it is spelled.


I was kind of vaguely aware of this, but was just memeing. Still, it is an interesting point.
   1780. jmurph Posted: November 23, 2020 at 12:40 PM (#5990842)
Similarly, I went to college in Boston and hardly anyone I knew had a 'Boston' accent. Of course, most of my friends and professors were from other parts of the country.

And which other part of the country, specifically? Long Island of course.

But really that's a great explanation, thanks.
   1781. tshipman Posted: November 23, 2020 at 12:41 PM (#5990843)
Replying as I catch up on the thread. I woke up this morning feeling better than I have about any Knicks offseason in ages. We didn't do anything that crippled our cap space. I didn't love our top draft pick, but I didn't absolutely hate it. And we ended up with more draft picks than we started with.


Uh oh ...

Knicks sign Pope Francis (G, College of Cardinals), 4 years, 120 million.
   1782. jmurph Posted: November 23, 2020 at 12:42 PM (#5990844)
Knicks sign Pope Francis (G, College of Cardinals), 4 years, 120 million.

In fairness he is super chill.

(EDIT: That's an Anthony Tolliver quote, for the record.)
   1783. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: November 23, 2020 at 01:30 PM (#5990855)
This is a multi-year tank; we'll still be pretty capped out next year, which is fine, and in fact we'd probably try to trade Gordon's attractive expiring for some more bad money and picks.


How committed to the tank are you? Charlotte will give you TWO expirings (Batum and Tyler Zeller) + the cash difference for Gordon and Vucevic. Or some variation that you like.
   1784. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 23, 2020 at 01:31 PM (#5990856)
Hypothetical q that's impossible to answer: how much do you think it would have taken to pry FVV away from TOR, if other teams had cap space? (thinking about whether they were lucky about the lack of other PG buyers / how toronto might have valued him)
   1785. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 23, 2020 at 01:34 PM (#5990857)
Alternately, ATL would take Gordon into cap space, which gives Orlando a TE they could use to absorb a bad deal.
   1786. jmurph Posted: November 23, 2020 at 01:54 PM (#5990863)
Hypothetical q that's impossible to answer: how much do you think it would have taken to pry FVV away from TOR, if other teams had cap space? (thinking about whether they were lucky about the lack of other PG buyers / how toronto might have valued him)

A full max? But I honestly wonder if they would have matched even that, given Ibaka/Gasol not being solid at that time (and now having left obviously).
   1787. tshipman Posted: November 23, 2020 at 01:58 PM (#5990865)
Hypothetical q that's impossible to answer: how much do you think it would have taken to pry FVV away from TOR, if other teams had cap space? (thinking about whether they were lucky about the lack of other PG buyers / how toronto might have valued him)


Van Vleet got 4/85. I have to imagine that the Raptors would have gotten squeamish around 4/100. So somewhere in between there?

The Raptors got lucky, I think, that the Suns made the CP3 deal.
   1788. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: November 23, 2020 at 02:13 PM (#5990868)
How committed to the tank are you? Charlotte will give you TWO expirings (Batum and Tyler Zeller) + the cash difference for Gordon and Vucevic. Or some variation that you like.


I don't think this accomplishes what I'm trying to do. I guess it clears Gordon's and Vucevic's future salaries so I could take on more bad money next year with draft picks, so that's something. But really what I'm trying to do is not clear 2021-22 payroll (I'll still be tanking so I don't care about freeing up space), but rather to pick up draft picks in exchange for getting worse. (I'm also up against the tax so the cash doesn't quite make up for the loss of flexibility, although I could put in Khem Birch instead of taking the cash to accomplish much the same thing.)

Like, I want to trade Vuc for Wiggins and picks, but I already traded other stuff for Wiggins and picks. But, like, Vuc and Gordon for John Wall and a boatload of picks? Sign me up. (Whoever has Washington, if you want to do this, let's talk, but it's going to need to be a real boatload, that contract is still the worst in the league by tens of millions of dollars.)

Alternately, ATL would take Gordon into cap space, which gives Orlando a TE they could use to absorb a bad deal.


Nah, I think Gordon is worth a little something on his contract and we'll keep him to have something to market to the fans unless we get something tangible in return. If there were a concrete 3-way put together it could work, but not going to get rid of him just for option value I don't think.

I would offload Vuc into cap space if anyone wants to do that. Again he has a nice declining contract structure (26-24-22).
   1789. Paul d mobile Posted: November 23, 2020 at 02:30 PM (#5990869)
Van Vleet will actually make more in year 1 than year 2, before his salary goes up again in year 3.

And the Raptors just signed Alex Len.
   1790. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 23, 2020 at 02:50 PM (#5990874)
I like the Len move - he shows some ability to hit from distance two years ago and gives them some needed bench heft.
--
Agree that Gordon should have value, thought it couldn't hurt to ask.
   1791. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: November 23, 2020 at 02:51 PM (#5990875)
Van Vleet will actually make more in year 1 than year 2, before his salary goes up again in year 3.
I honestly cannot think of another contract, ever, that isn't monotonically ascending or descending. Can't imagine the contract discussions were too difficult, though:

Ujiri: "Do you mind a slightly weird year-to-year salary distribution in exchange for a higher chance of playing with Giannis?"

FVV's agent: "I dunno, Masai, we'll have to disc—"

FVV: "DO IT"
   1792. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 23, 2020 at 03:23 PM (#5990881)
There's a handful of weird deals like this (up, then down or whatever) in the league
   1793. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: November 23, 2020 at 03:57 PM (#5990888)
It looks like the Lakers will be re-signing Markieff Morris. They now have about 10 guys who you'd be comfortable with getting playing time in the playoffs. LBJ/AD/KCP/Matthews/Gasol/Harell/Schroeder/Caruso/Kuzma/ and Morris.

That's a deep team.
   1794. spivey Posted: November 23, 2020 at 04:13 PM (#5990893)
I wouldn't be comfortable with Kuzma getting minutes, but I think the Lakers did a good job overall.
   1795. DCA Posted: November 23, 2020 at 04:18 PM (#5990894)
With pick 51, GSW take Killian Tillie, Gonzaga. Kings/smileyy on the clock for #52.

1. Indiana (from Minnesota) - Stiggles - JAMES WISEMAN, MEMPHIS
2. Atlanta (from Golden State) - Der-K - ANTHONY EDWARDS, UGA
3. Charlotte - Votto - LAMELO BALL, USA/LATVIA/AUSTRALIA
4. Chicago - Moses - KILLIAN HAYES, FRANCE
5. Cleveland - Der-K - DENI AVDIJA, EUROPE
6. Atlanta - Der-K - ONYEKA OKONGWU, USC
7. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless - PATRICK WILLIAMS, FSU
8. New York - NJ in NJ - KIRA LEWIS JR - ALABAMA
9. Washington - Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant - DEVIN VASSELL, FSU
10. Phoenix - All Oriole Tragic - OBI TOPPIN, DAYTON
11. San Antonio - Hot Wheeling American - TYRESE HALIBURTON, IOWA STATE
12. Sacramento - smileyy - SADDIQ BEY, VILLANOVA
13. New Orleans - JJ1986 - AARON NESMITH, VANDERBILT
14. Boston (from Memphis) - If on a winter's night a traveling violation - TYRESE MAXEY, KENTUCKY
15. Minnesota (from Orlando)- aberg - ISAAC OKORO, AUBURN
16. Portland - mike f - JOSH GREEN, ARIZONA
17. Orlando (from Minnesota via Brooklyn via Atlanta) - Athletic Supporter - ALEKSEJ POKUSEVSKI, SERBIA/GREECE
18. Dallas - Dandy Little Glove Man - DESMOND BANE, TCU
19. Brooklyn (from Philadelphia via LA Clippers) - stevegamer - COLE ANTHONY, UNC
20. Miami - AG#1Fan - JALEN SMITH, MARYLAND
21. Philadelphia (from Oklahoma City via Orlando and Philadelphia) - tshipman - TYRELL TERRY, STANFORD
22. Denver (from Houston) - asinwreck - RJ HAMPTON, USA/AUSTRALIA
23. Utah - Booey - TRE JONES, DUKE
24. New Orleans (from Milwaukee via Indiana) - JJ1986 - XAVIER TILLMAN, MICHIGAN STATE
25. Oklahoma City (from Denver) - Thok, JALEN MCDANIELS, WASHINGTON
26. Boston - If on a winter's night a traveling violation - LEANDRO BOLMARO, FC BARCELONA
27. New York (from LA Clippers) - NJ in NJ - IMMANUEL QUICKLEY, KENTUCKY
28. Los Angeles Lakers - Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim - MALACHI FLYNN, SD STATE
29. Toronto - BaseballObscura - THEO MALEDON, FRANCE
30. Dallas (drafted by LA Clippers, from Milwaukee via Phoenix and Boston) - DLGM - PAUL REED, DEPAUL

31. LA Clippers (from Golden State, via Dallas) - stiggles - JAHMI'US RAMSEY, TEXAS TECH
32. Charlotte (from Cleveland via LA Clippers and Orlando) - Votto - ISAIAH STEWART, WASHINGTON
33. Orlando (from Minnesota) - Athletic Supporter - CASSIUS WINSTON, MICHIGAN STATE
34. Philadelphia (from Atlanta) - tshipman - PRECIOUS ACHIUWA, MEMPHIS
35. Sacramento (from Detroit via Phoenix) - smileyy - ZEKE NNAJI, ARIZONA
36. Philadelphia (from New York) - tshipman - ROBERT WOODARD, MISSISSIPPI STATE
37. Washington (from Chicago) - Mellow Mouse - NICO MANNION, ARIZONA
38. New York (from Charlotte) - NJ in NJ - CASSIUS STANLEY, DUKE
39. New Orleans (from Washington via Milwaukee) - JJ1986 - GRANT RILLER, CHARLESTON
40. Memphis (from Phoenix) - Willard Baseball - ISAIAH JOE, ARKANSAS
41. San Antonio - Hot Wheeling American - UDOKA AZUBUIKE, KANSAS
42. New Orleans - JJ1986 - JUSTINIAN JESSUP, USA/AUSTRALIA
43. Sacramento - smileyy - NICK RICHARDS, KENTUCKY
44. Chicago (from Memphis) - Moses - DEVIN DOTSON, KANSAS
45. Orlando - Athletic Supporter - JORDAN NWORA, LOUISVILLE
46. Golden State (from Portland) - DCA - TYLER BEY, COLORADO
47. Boston (from Brooklyn via Charlotte, Orlando and Philadelphia) - If on a winter's night a traveling violation - PAYTON PRITCHARD, OREGON
48. Golden State (from Dallas via Philadelphia) - DCA - SAM MERRILL, UTAH STATE
49. Philadelphia - tshipman - VIT KREJCI, FC BARCELONA
50. Atlanta (from Miami via Sacramento, Cleveland and Boston) - Der-K - YAM MADAR, ISRAEL
51. Golden State (from Utah via Dallas, Detroit and Cleveland) - DCA - KILLIAN TILLIE, GONZAGA
52. Sacramento (from Houston) - smileyy - ON THE CLOCK

53. Oklahoma City - Thok -
54. Minnesota (from Indiana) - aberg
55. Brooklyn (from Denver) - stevegamer
56. Charlotte (from Boston) - Votto
57. LA Clippers - stiggles
58. Philadelphia (from Los Angeles Lakers via Orlando) - tshipman
59. Toronto - BaseballObscura
60. New Orleans (from Milwaukee) - JJ1986

TRADE: BROGDON, TURNER, #54 from IND to MIN for #1, RUSSELL, SPELLMAN, EVANS

TRADE: CLINT CAPELA from ATL to GSW for #2 pick

TRADE: #17 AND #33 PICK TO ORLANDO, #15 PICK TO MINNESOTA

TRADE: HARDEN, COVINGTON TO PHILADELPHIA, SIMMONS, RICHARDSON TO HOUSTON

TRADE: OJELEYE + KANTER + #30 to LAC, WILLIAMS + 2023 Detroit 2nd (top-55 protected) to BOS

TRADE: DELON WRIGHT, KLEBER TO PHOENIX, OUBRE, CAM JOHNSON TO DALLAS

TRADE: JRUE HOLIDAY TO MILWAUKEE, #24, BLEDSOE, DIVINCENZO, ROBIN LOPEZ TO NEW ORLEANS

TRADE: ROSS, FOURNIER TO GOLDEN STATE, WIGGINS, MINNESOTA 2021 1ST (TOP 3 PROTECTED) TO ORL

TRADE: TERRENCE ROSS TO POR, TREVOR ARIZA + #46 to GSW

TRADE: KANTER + PAUL REED (#30) to DAL, BOBAN + #31 to LAC
   1796. smileyy Posted: November 23, 2020 at 04:50 PM (#5990899)
Sacramento's GM homers it up and selects Naji Marshall, wing, Xavier. If he develops a better jump shot he could be an All-Star, or at least make a bunch of money as a 3-and-D.
   1797. smileyy Posted: November 23, 2020 at 04:50 PM (#5990900)
That puts Thok and Oklahoma City on the clock.
   1798. Paul d mobile Posted: November 23, 2020 at 04:59 PM (#5990902)
I wonder how much money players on the Raptors will save by playing in Tampa instead of Toronto this year.
   1799. jmurph Posted: November 23, 2020 at 05:09 PM (#5990904)
Listening to some of the recap podcasts, you would have no idea that there is more than one party in a trade/free agent negotiation. So much "why didn't the team do this, why did the team offer that?" like there isn't a player and an agent on the other end of the phone.

EDIT: Like Nate Duncan compared the Mitchell opt-out in the 5th year with Utah failing to max Hayward many years ago. Those were, uhhh, not remotely similar things.
   1800. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 23, 2020 at 05:52 PM (#5990911)
Rockets sign Cousins. (Worth a flier, imo)
New Orleans signs Gabriel and Thornwell.
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