Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, October 26, 2020

NBA Post-Bubble offseason thread

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA but we should have enough posters to fill out a mock draft regardless.

Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: October 26, 2020 at 07:08 PM | 2312 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: mock draft, nba, off-topic

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 20 of 24 pages ‹ First  < 18 19 20 21 22 >  Last ›
   1901. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: November 27, 2020 at 09:28 AM (#5991304)
Again, a flip.
   1902. asinwreck Posted: November 27, 2020 at 10:54 AM (#5991310)
Will/should the Raptors be allowed to pay a housing allowance to players this year? I imagine at least a couple of them own/rent places in Toronto, and will now have to get a place in Tampa - obviously that would be a salary cap violation in most years, seems like a reasonable exception this year though.

Maybe, though this Athletic story points to another possibility:
Beyond high-level basketball facilities, Tampa also offers a brand new JW Marriott hotel next to Amalie Arena. It features ballrooms that can be used as makeshift practice spaces, the largest of which is more than 29,000 square feet, and boardrooms that can serve as office space. The Raptors used a similar set-up in the Disney bubble. The organization also felt there were good housing options nearby for team staff.

The wording of the last sentence makes me think the hotel might be a landing spot for the players on the team's dime.
   1903. puck Posted: November 27, 2020 at 11:32 AM (#5991312)
The Raptors could also use host families.
   1904. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: November 27, 2020 at 10:20 PM (#5991366)
Dwight Howard believes he can help mentor Joel Embiid in managing his playful side
   1905. PJ Martinez Posted: November 27, 2020 at 10:29 PM (#5991367)
lol
   1906. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: November 28, 2020 at 12:32 AM (#5991371)
i would like to request that the words d****t and h*****d be banned from this thread.
   1907. stevegamer Posted: November 28, 2020 at 01:26 AM (#5991372)
Dwight is at best, something like the 5th funniest guy using the last name Howard on a good day. If only Moe, Shemp or Curly was around to help Embiid instead.
   1908. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 28, 2020 at 05:21 AM (#5991376)
Soft. SOFT.
   1909. asinwreck Posted: November 28, 2020 at 09:12 AM (#5991378)
Howard is clearly one of Morey's most treasured assets. Of the 5,000,000 players Morey drafted, signed, or traded for in Houston, Howard is the first guy he reacquired upon his move to Philadelphia.
   1910. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: November 28, 2020 at 09:19 AM (#5991379)
i would like to request that the words d****t and h*****d be banned from this thread.


What beef do you have with Hayward?
   1911. I am going to be Frank Posted: November 28, 2020 at 11:18 AM (#5991394)
Howard has always been well-conditioned. That would help Embiid.
   1912. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: November 28, 2020 at 12:16 PM (#5991398)
Howard has always been well-conditioned. That would help Embiid.


Not sure how that would help Embiid, unless you're proposing he ride Howard like a horsey.
   1913. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: November 28, 2020 at 01:10 PM (#5991410)
Not sure how that would help Embiid, unless you're proposing he ride Howard like a horsey.
the celtics will never expect it.
   1914. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: November 28, 2020 at 06:16 PM (#5991442)
Alex Kennedy @AlexKennedyNBA
During Zach Randolph's rookie year in Portland, he played with Rasheed Wallace, Bonzi Wells, Damon Stoudamire, Dale Davis, Scottie Pippen, Shawn Kemp, Steve Kerr, etc. On The Posecast, Z-Bo talks about realizing he could hold his own in the NBA after dunking on Kemp in practice: pic.twitter.com/3ZrUaUXRf7

   1915. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 28, 2020 at 11:25 PM (#5991458)
Maybe Nate Robinson should have stuck to team sports.
   1916. tshipman Posted: November 28, 2020 at 11:55 PM (#5991459)
I am honestly shocked that he lost.
   1917. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 29, 2020 at 02:46 AM (#5991463)
Thon Maker got signed by Cleveland to a training camp deal. It shocks me that it was the best he could do.
   1918. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: November 29, 2020 at 11:54 AM (#5991481)
Thon Maker got signed by Cleveland to a training camp deal. It shocks me that it was the best he could do.

welllllll......
   1919. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 29, 2020 at 06:13 PM (#5991525)
... well, then. I still think the Lakers could have thrown a minimum at him, especially now that it's clear he would have taken it in a heartbeat.
   1920. spivey Posted: November 29, 2020 at 07:56 PM (#5991534)
Thon Maker is not good at basketball. It's easy to dream on someone that size who is mobile and has decent shooting touch, but he's a big negative in +/- and having watched him, I believe it. He way oversells for blocks and as such hurts your team on the glass a lot. This last year he was good efficiency wise on offense, but most years he's not. He also gets in a ton of foul trouble.

Now, for an end of the bench guy, maybe that's irrelevant.

But depending on how well the NBA handles this season, and if teams are traveling and doing all that like it sounds like, I expect there will be some COVID tests which lead to deeper bench guys needing to maybe start or play extended minutes for few game stretches, if I was a team like the Lakers I'd want those guys to be ring chasing vets that have lower upside, but you can depend on more.
   1921. puck Posted: November 29, 2020 at 08:34 PM (#5991537)
So training camps open Dec 1 and the 1st games are Dec 22? That seems quick.
   1922. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: November 29, 2020 at 10:11 PM (#5991547)
not sure if this has been posted already, but:

Rachel Nichols @Rachel__Nichols
NBA makes it official: no All-Star game this upcoming season. Indianapolis, which was supposed to host, will get the game in 2024 instead.
   1923. PJ Martinez Posted: November 30, 2020 at 08:45 AM (#5991565)
Boston ends up with a $28.5m trade exception for Hayward, the largest ever, sending Charlotte unprotected second-rounders in 2023 and 2024. Curious to see whether this TPE is more consequential than most TPEs are.
   1924. asinwreck Posted: November 30, 2020 at 08:51 AM (#5991567)
The Celtics could fit Otto Porter Jr. into that TPE if they wanted. (I have no idea what the Bulls would want in such a deal, but if Boston is looking for another wing for this year, he seems like one who would be available.)
   1925. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: November 30, 2020 at 10:49 AM (#5991593)
Bad idea. Otto Porter Jr. needs to be on the same team as Michael Porter Jr. and Kevin Porter Jr. and that's not going to happen on the Celtics.
   1926. asinwreck Posted: November 30, 2020 at 11:10 AM (#5991598)
Not even if they hire Terry Porter as an assistant?
   1927. DCA Posted: November 30, 2020 at 11:15 AM (#5991600)
Celtics are hard-capped because the signed Tristan Thompson to the non-taxpayer MLE. So they'd have to shed salary. But this works.
   1928. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: November 30, 2020 at 12:26 PM (#5991608)
Well done
   1929. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 30, 2020 at 12:44 PM (#5991613)
Celtics sign Evan Turner ... as an assistant coach.
   1930. aberg Posted: November 30, 2020 at 12:51 PM (#5991615)
Celtics sign Evan Turner ... as an assistant coach.


He couldn't even space the floor out to the three point line. Not sure what makes them think he'll be able to do it all the way to the bench.
   1931. tshipman Posted: November 30, 2020 at 02:14 PM (#5991627)
I guess Evan Turner retired?
   1932. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 30, 2020 at 02:32 PM (#5991637)
not yet?
   1933. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: November 30, 2020 at 03:52 PM (#5991667)
I am rooting for a player coach in any sport, even if it means ass't coach.
   1934. asinwreck Posted: November 30, 2020 at 03:59 PM (#5991669)
Does Udonis Haslem get enough minutes to qualify as a player coach?
   1935. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: November 30, 2020 at 04:49 PM (#5991681)
He couldn't even space the floor out to the three point line. Not sure what makes them think he'll be able to do it all the way to the bench.
As Nick Nurse and rookie contract Marcus Smart have amply demonstrated, you don't have to actually make shots to impact the game from beyond the arc; you just need to get the other team to play differently because you're out there. While we're on the subject, the Evan Turner quote master list is an evergreen resource. Looking forward to seeing his goofy ass quotes back in the Celtics beat reporting.

[1927] is terrible, but beautiful, like a blue-ringed octopus.
   1936. spivey Posted: November 30, 2020 at 04:53 PM (#5991682)
As Nick Nurse and rookie contract Marcus Smart have amply demonstrated, you don't have to actually make shots to impact the game from beyond the arc; you just need to get the other team to play differently because you're out there.


Yes, I wonder if this will change. I think Pelton or someone did some analysis and found that 3pa more closely aligns to court spacing than 3pt%. I wonder if that changes in the playoffs.
   1937. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 30, 2020 at 05:06 PM (#5991686)
(to be clear, i don't think turner is playing this year - just that he hasn't officially retired)
   1938. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: November 30, 2020 at 09:25 PM (#5991750)
Adam Zagoria @AdamZagoria
The Rick Pitino Era begins at @IonaGaelsMBB with a game against protege Kevin Willard at @SetonHallMBB pic.twitter.com/ahOYvd5ZzD


magic mike isn't walking through that door.
(to be clear, i don't think turner is playing this year - just that he hasn't officially retired)
neither has jalen rose.
   1939. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: November 30, 2020 at 10:06 PM (#5991760)
Shams Charania @ShamsCharania
The Detroit Pistons have waived guard Zhaire Smith, sources tell @TheAthleticNBA @Stadium
   1940. smileyy Posted: November 30, 2020 at 10:49 PM (#5991768)
Wasn't Zhaire Smith supposed to be good? Or an I mixing up my Stiggles reviewed guards?
   1941. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: November 30, 2020 at 10:59 PM (#5991769)
Wasn't Zhaire Smith supposed to be good? Or an I mixing up my Stiggles reviewed guards?
1624. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: June 21, 2018 at 09:55 PM (#5697506)
zhaire smith: i've never seen him dribble, i'm not a huge believer in his shot, but he's young for his age, good agility, good length, nucular leaper, good instincts, great offensive rebounder. texas tech's offense was very similar to the sixers'. a lot of passing, motion, reads, screens, cuts.


bonus:
The paradox of stiggles is the incredible optimism about current Sixers combined with the least ambitious set of free agent ideas anywhere. You don't give Rodney Hood 3 years after the debacle of his Cleveland tenure! Totally unnecessary.

i think there's a 70% chance that porter recovers 90+% of his athleticism/overall health.
Where do those numbers come from?
:
   1942. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: December 01, 2020 at 09:13 AM (#5991795)
neither has jalen rose.
exactly.

rhj to minny on a non-guaranteed camp deal. man, he can do all kinds of things, except shoot. (not a great dribbler either? still above average at playmaking for a combo forward.)
shooting is so important in 2020.
   1943. spivey Posted: December 01, 2020 at 09:27 AM (#5991797)
rhj to minny on a non-guaranteed camp deal. man, he can do all kinds of things, except shoot. (not a great dribbler either? still above average at playmaking for a combo forward.)
shooting is so important in 2020.


There's a few tiers of "not being able to shoot". I wasn't sure which Hollis-Jefferson was in. 1.1 3pa/36, at 21% accuracy. So, the absolute bottom of the tiers. Man, that's Roberson level bad. That's with 50% of his 3pt attempts coming from the corners too. My word.
   1944. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: December 01, 2020 at 09:49 AM (#5991805)
And that's career! 18% in 18-19, 13% last year (and his 3a/36 are decreasing as he's finally giving up on this part of his game). He used to be adequate on long twos, but those don't fall anymore either (though he's a subpar but non-disaster 73% guy from the line). If he were a league average shooter from three, he's decidedly better than Jerami Grant.
   1945. I am going to be Frank Posted: December 01, 2020 at 12:39 PM (#5991838)
The Nets and Raptors played him at C a fair amount because of his inability to shoot. He tries, but he can't handle big men, but decent on a switch.
   1946. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: December 01, 2020 at 12:49 PM (#5991842)
I have an inexplicable fondness for RHJ; it's not because he's a good player, it's just one of those things. I rooted for him in Brooklyn and Toronto, and now I get to watch him try and fail for the Wolves.
   1947. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: December 01, 2020 at 02:11 PM (#5991860)
i think he's an okay player! but having him limits your other choices in ways that aren't great and people keep wanting him to be a small four (or five!) because of the shot, but he's best defensively on threes.
   1948. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: December 01, 2020 at 02:15 PM (#5991865)
The wolves are really lacking in 3s, so I bet that is where he spends most of his time defending.
   1949. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: December 01, 2020 at 02:39 PM (#5991874)
It feels like we're entering the Analytics 2.0 Era in the NBA.

In baseball, the original Moneyball stuff was a very simple mathematical insight: "not making outs is good." It's literally the most basic, obvious thing once you start thinking analytically. Measuring OBP is easy, even doing simulations or linear weights is easy. Smart teams figured this out but it spread fairly quickly.

The A's and other smart teams then pivoted to new undervalued commodities -- chiefly defense. These were harder to measure and required more advanced analytics, making them harder to copy -- analytics 2.0.

The NBA analogue of "not making outs is good" is the simple fact that 3 > 2. Again, this is not a very difficult thing to compute, there's no math above, like, a 3rd grade level involved. The pioneers again had a temporary advantage but it's pretty much spread throughout the NBA at this point. Setting aside second order effects like gravity, fouls, offensive rebounding, everyone realizes that a 3-pointer shot at 35% is 1.05 PPP and a mid-ranger at 45% is 0.90 PPP and the first is way better.

Last year the Pacers were last in the league with 31.7% 3PA/FGA. In 2010 this number would have ranked second behind the Magic (4 out around Dwight) -- 3rd in the league that year was 27.8%. Hell, in 2015 that would have ranked 6th in the league, ahead of, for instance, the first year of the Warriors dynasty. 3-point shooting is everywhere now.

So the advantage now comes in the form of complicated things. Optimizing RHJ feels like one of those complicated things; in MLB people pivoted so hard towards OBP that defense became cheap, and similarly now people are pivoting so hard towards shooting that non-shooters are cheap, but it's less obvious how to identify and use useful skills outside of shooting. I think the opportunity is there for a smart team to arbitrage this.

Weirdly one thing that might stand in the way is the salary cap (or really salary floor). When you're trying to compete on a $50M budget against $200M, you have to find some really unique advantages to succeed, it spurs innovation in a sense. But in the NBA, you just have to be a little better, which means the kind of wild swings like trying to figure out how to make a team of 5 RHJs work are never actually needed and don't give you that big an advantage because you have to pay for an expensive player anyway.
   1950. I am going to be Frank Posted: December 01, 2020 at 03:29 PM (#5991883)
Teams must have a better way to measure individual defense by now. It probably isn't comprehensively good, per se, but it has to be better than the other guy scored 'x' points or even +/-.

I think the next step is optimizing contracts and rosters, which already has begun. In the past, signing second-rounders to four-year contracts wasn't very common. Maximizing the G-League and two-way players seems to have gotten better as well. Finding players who make very little who can contribute is just better use of the cap than signing centers and PF who can't shoot.
   1951. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: December 01, 2020 at 04:30 PM (#5991890)
Basketball defense is outrageously hard to accurately quantify, though: you have 5 interdependent actors trying to account for 5 interdependent actors, each with significantly different size/movement parameters which affect their role. Advanced box-score-style analysis has hardly been exhausted, especially since teams track lots more events than publicly available stats sites, but I would be surprised if too many fundamental improvements are to be had there.

You could get fancier, though. You could try to calculate the ideal position for each defender based on how possessions actually unfold and then calculate each player's average distance from their ideal spot (how to do this is its own relatively deep topic; layering a few basic machine learning techniques can get you a working solution, but it's very hard to make the correctness of that stuff in any way verifiable); however you derive your Ideal Defense, you then have to do a TON of calculus and graph theory homework on top of it. Then making it useful to coaching and front office staffs is a really gnarly (and fascinating) programming problem. Even then, you have at least three fundamental problems:

1) the offensive movement was determined in part by the actual, imperfect defense in front of them, not the idealized version; it's a leap of faith that the "perfect" defense won't lead to buckets (does your algorithm really account for how a guy like Durant can just shoot over the top of good contests? Or how top-speed lateral rotations leave players vulnerable to a quick crossover?)
2) just looking at floor position fails to capture a lot of significant details: footwork, arm/hand position, advanced defensive tricks like intentionally leaving a dangerous passing lane open, etc
3) Inaccuracies in the derived data set compound with every layer of calculation to which they are inputs

I'm sure many (if not all) teams are working hard on some kind of quantitative video analysis, but I have doubts about how reliable the state of the art can be right now. I'd give any of Google/Amazon/Facebook about a coin flip for pulling off something useful enough to meaningfully improve a team's personnel decisions; NBA teams have a lot less computing resources to bring to bear.
   1952. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: December 01, 2020 at 05:01 PM (#5991902)
(Important caveat: I have never actually done any computer-vision-adjacent work or research, so take my feasibility assumptions with a very large grain of salt.)
   1953. Fourth True Outcome Posted: December 01, 2020 at 05:35 PM (#5991908)
That reminded me of an old Grantland piece by Zach Lowe about the Raptors using SportVU camera tracking, player data, and computer analysis to track ideal "ghost" defenders compared to how the actual Raptors defended on the tracked plays. It's crude, in that it has all the limitations you point out, but it's also from 2013, so I'm sure this sort of analysis is both much more widespread and much more powerful than it was seven years ago. It also talks about the difficulty in getting coaching adoption of analytics, something that has also come a long way since 2013. I'd love to see an updated version of this, but I can't imagine any team would be excited to let all of its competitors know what it's doing in-house.
   1954. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: December 01, 2020 at 05:39 PM (#5991911)
boop
   1955. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: December 01, 2020 at 06:24 PM (#5991926)
So the advantage now comes in the form of complicated things. Optimizing RHJ feels like one of those complicated things; in MLB people pivoted so hard towards OBP that defense became cheap, and similarly now people are pivoting so hard towards shooting that non-shooters are cheap, but it's less obvious how to identify and use useful skills outside of shooting. I think the opportunity is there for a smart team to arbitrage this.
This is more (immediately) interesting than the insanely hard task of accurately quantifying defense in a way that controls for context. Good offenses need certain combinations of skill sets, which can be assembled in positionally-agnostic ways, while positional expectations affect a player's market; systematizing which weirdo players could outperform a generically "fair" contract in some specific roster context (and then be traded for more value than they would produce outside of it...) would be a killer advantage around the margins.
   1956. tshipman Posted: December 01, 2020 at 06:24 PM (#5991927)
I think I disagree with a lot of 1949.

First of all, mapping analytics from a baseball mindset to basketball is always a miss. Analysts were never outsiders in basketball.

The NBA analogue of "not making outs is good" is the simple fact that 3 > 2. Again, this is not a very difficult thing to compute, there's no math above, like, a 3rd grade level involved. The pioneers again had a temporary advantage but it's pretty much spread throughout the NBA at this point. Setting aside second order effects like gravity, fouls, offensive rebounding, everyone realizes that a 3-pointer shot at 35% is 1.05 PPP and a mid-ranger at 45% is 0.90 PPP and the first is way better.


I don't think it's this simple. Guys who are good at making threes have different basketball skills than guys who are good at making twos.

Two trends have been going on in lockstep in NBA history: offensive rebounding has been going down, and 3p shooting has been going up. You can't just say that 3>2 because the second order effects are incredibly important. So is the overall talent pool. 30 years ago there just weren't that many guys who could hit 35% of their threes. There were all of 36 NBA players who hit 35% of their threes.

Everyone realized in 1995 that shooting the three was incredibly valuable when they moved the line in--attempts jumped 50%! Was that due to analytics? I would submit that it's all due to coaching--something that analytics has very little influence on.

Is Mike D'Antoni an analyst? Or is he just really good at recognizing that rule changes would allow for spread pick and roll basketball.

Is Tom Thibodeau an analyst? Or did he just effectively preach that iceing side PnR was the antidote?

most of the changes in the NBA game are reactions to changes in scheme and personnel--not analytics.
   1957. puck Posted: December 01, 2020 at 08:43 PM (#5991948)
that's Roberson level bad


Dang, I didn't realize Roberson had been so bad in the NBA. He was 50 for 143 in college. I wonder what that means for Tyler Bey.
   1958. PJ Martinez Posted: December 01, 2020 at 09:01 PM (#5991949)
So, if I'm interpreting these tentative Christmas-day matchups correctly, Silver and co. have made promoting Luka a very high priority this year (not that I blame them):
Pelicans vs. Heat
Warriors vs. Bucks
Nets vs. Celtics
Mavs vs. Lakers
Clippers vs. Nuggets

Edit: Also, the league office doesn't believe in the Sixers.
   1959. NJ in NJ Posted: December 01, 2020 at 09:07 PM (#5991950)
My Christmas proposal:

1. Pelicans/Sixers
2. Heat/Bucks
3. Warriors/Nets
4. Lakers/Mavericks
5. Nuggets/Clippers

I think this covers all the important rivalries/rematches (2, 3, 5) and you get to highlight your next generation of superstars (1,4) and the GOAT (4).
   1960. PJ Martinez Posted: December 01, 2020 at 09:14 PM (#5991952)
I'm not sure that Durant playing Steph makes Warriors/Nets all that interesting... maybe. (I would, not surprisingly, make the case for keeping Boston v. Brooklyn.) But games 1 and 2 definitely seem better in your arrangement of things.
   1961. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: December 01, 2020 at 09:40 PM (#5991955)
i'd go with something like this:

DAL - MIL (start off simple with a luka v. giannis showdown)
BRK - MIA (either BRK runs away with it, or MIA turns it into a good ole fashioned rock fight)
GSW - POR (final score: 144-138)
LAC - LAL (sure, why not)
BOS - NOP (...and everyone can go to sleep after zion literally emasculates some random darko in the first quarter)
   1962. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: December 01, 2020 at 10:47 PM (#5991962)
I would book:

1. Heat/Sixers
2. Nets/Bucks
3. Pelicans/Mavs
4. Lakers/Clippers or Warriors
5. Nuggets/Clippers or Warriors
   1963. DCA Posted: December 01, 2020 at 11:14 PM (#5991966)
Dang, I didn't realize Roberson had been so bad in the NBA. He was 50 for 143 in college. I wonder what that means for Tyler Bey.

Probably very little. Bey shot worse from 3 in college, but in a small sample size (he was much better this season, in an even smaller sample size). But the more telling set of numbers, in a large sample size, is this:

58.2% = Roberson FT% in college
74.7% = Bey FT% in college

There's reason to be unsure of Bey's shot. But he's a way better shooter than Roberson.

   1964. NJ in NJ Posted: December 01, 2020 at 11:32 PM (#5991969)
i'd go with something like this:

DAL - MIL (start off simple with a luka v. giannis showdown)
BRK - MIA (either BRK runs away with it, or MIA turns it into a good ole fashioned rock fight)
GSW - POR (final score: 144-138)
LAC - LAL (sure, why not)
BOS - NOP (...and everyone can go to sleep after zion literally emasculates some random darko in the first quarter)


I like GSW-POR and LAC-LAL. No history in BOS-NOP and you also have a late game with two non WC teams. DAL-MIL works on the future of the league showdown level (and potential future team-up level), but I think the story in the EC for this season is going to be how far can Giannis take MIL so why not have him meet the team that ended his season? I don't find BRK or MIA to be aesthetically compelling teams so matching them up in a game with no storyline stakes does nothing for me.

1. Heat/Sixers
2. Nets/Bucks
3. Pelicans/Mavs
4. Lakers/Clippers or Warriors
5. Nuggets/Clippers or Warriors


I look at the 3/4 slot as the main event. Zion and the Pelicans haven't proven enough to belong there.

To me, the Christmas the framework is basically:

1. Nuggets/Clippers
2. Heat/Bucks
3. Find a slot for Luka, Zion, LeBron and Steph
   1965. jmurph Posted: December 02, 2020 at 09:31 AM (#5992000)
The only surprise exclusion to me is the Sixers, who I guess I'd sub in for New Orleans. Also surprised they didn't go Battle of LA, but the two games featuring LA teams should be fun.
   1966. spivey 2 Posted: December 02, 2020 at 09:34 AM (#5992002)
These teams are all exciting, and I'm ready for basketball, so I don't think you can go wrong. But I think NJ's slate is the most interesting. I think in-conference games are significantly more compelling for most of these teams since the season is too wide open to be thinking of 'Finals previews'. Maybe the one exception if seeing if Durant and the Warriors start jawing at each other.

I'd maybe have preferred something like Lakers/Clippers and then have the Warriors play another one of these teams, but Lakers and Clippers matched up last Christmas. So Clippers/Nuggets is still pretty good.
   1967. DCA Posted: December 02, 2020 at 09:51 AM (#5992007)
Keeping the same 10 teams, which I think are reasonable, I think I'd just mix up the first two and keep the last three.

Warriors vs. Heat (Iguodala grudge match)
Pelicans vs. Bucks (Jrue vs Bledsoe and Zion vs Giannis)
Nets vs. Celtics (no storyline but in-conference)
Mavs vs. Lakers (great white hope vs GOAT)
Clippers vs. Nuggets (playoff series replay)
   1968. PJ Martinez Posted: December 02, 2020 at 10:09 AM (#5992012)
(Iguodala grudge match)
(no storyline but in-conference)
I realize Iguodala was an important part of those Warriors teams, but I think the media will make a bigger deal out of Irving facing the Celtics (for the first time, IIRC?) than Iggy facing the Warriors (again).
   1969. DCA Posted: December 02, 2020 at 10:13 AM (#5992015)
I didn't realize that Kyrie hadn't played the Celtics this past season. Also, I didn't get the impression that Kyrie was all that beloved by the Celtics fan base or important in the franchise narrative (compared to Isaiah Thomas who had a similar tenure and role, for example). And Kyrie didn't play in the finals with either the Celtics or Nets.
   1970. jmurph Posted: December 02, 2020 at 10:25 AM (#5992017)
Oh I'm just now realizing the Rockets aren't on the schedule, which is going to be weird if Harden/Westbrook are still on the team.
   1971. PJ Martinez Posted: December 02, 2020 at 10:51 AM (#5992026)
I'd say Irving is mostly loathed by the Boston fanbase, which will be the source of any drama in his return. (I'm not sure fans will care as much as the media, but I assume it will be hyped up.)
   1972. spivey 2 Posted: December 02, 2020 at 10:58 AM (#5992029)
Oh I'm just now realizing the Rockets aren't on the schedule, which is going to be weird if Harden/Westbrook are still on the team.


I'm happy about it. They're not exciting to watch either way in my opinion, and it's best to prevent an absolute dud of a game. There's enough teams that have a way bigger likelihood of being exciting.
   1973. tshipman Posted: December 02, 2020 at 11:12 AM (#5992033)
Oh I'm just now realizing the Rockets aren't on the schedule, which is going to be weird if Harden/Westbrook are still on the team.


This has been dragging on a bit, hasn't it?

We all assume they're gone, but there's been seemingly zero movement.
   1974. jmurph Posted: December 02, 2020 at 11:18 AM (#5992035)
I kind of assume they're staying at this point? I guess I could see a non-playoff team taking a run at Westbrook, but for Brooklyn or whoever to do a 4 or 5 for 1 trade for Harden during the season seems like a complicated thing to pull off.
   1975. tshipman Posted: December 02, 2020 at 11:37 AM (#5992037)
The best landing spot for Westbrook was Charlotte, but that seems not possible any longer.
   1976. PJ Martinez Posted: December 02, 2020 at 11:48 AM (#5992041)
The NBA really wants Nets-Warriors to be a thing:
The NBA’s tentative Dec. 22 opening night doubleheader on TNT: Nets vs. Warriors in Brooklyn and Lakers vs. Clippers in Los Angeles, sources tell
@TheAthleticNBA @Stadium.
   1977. jmurph Posted: December 02, 2020 at 12:05 PM (#5992046)
I'm sure Draymond will yell at people because that's what he does but I don't think Steph or Kyrie are going to get heated with anyone.
   1978. CFBF's Results are Certified Posted: December 02, 2020 at 12:37 PM (#5992052)
   1979. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: December 02, 2020 at 01:03 PM (#5992056)
LBJ signed a 2/85 extension
   1980. NJ in NJ Posted: December 02, 2020 at 01:09 PM (#5992058)
KD leaving the Warriors for the Nets and all the turmoil around his final season with the Warriors absolutely makes Nets-Warriors a thing.
   1981. tshipman Posted: December 02, 2020 at 01:25 PM (#5992060)
KD leaving the Warriors for the Nets and all the turmoil around his final season with the Warriors absolutely makes Nets-Warriors a thing.


Really? I don't think Warriors fans have an issue with him. He tore his achilles trying to come back early in the Finals. He was always kind of a mercenary in Golden State.

Even if you think Warriors fans have bad blood with KD, why would Nets fans care about GSW?
   1982. spivey 2 Posted: December 02, 2020 at 01:28 PM (#5992061)
I think there is some potential bad blood between KD and at least Draymond, and that entertains me as a neutral.
   1983. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: December 02, 2020 at 01:29 PM (#5992062)
Really? I don't think Warriors fans have an issue with him. He tore his achilles trying to come back early in the Finals. He was always kind of a mercenary in Golden State.


Yeah, this. And with Klay's and KD's injuries it was already clear last year was going to be a wash, so I don't think not getting to pay KD 40M to be out all season is high on Warriors' fans list of regrets (I am not sure they actually have any regrets, tbh).
   1984. jmurph Posted: December 02, 2020 at 01:30 PM (#5992063)
I think the missed year lessens it, too. Also Curry and Kerr and Klay, who isn't even there, are kind of famously nice guys.

But yes I definitely anticipate a lot of Durant clapping in and around Draymond's face and Draymond talking a lot.
   1985. asinwreck Posted: December 02, 2020 at 01:37 PM (#5992066)
The optics of KD's first game action since going out trying to win another Finals with GSW is a narrative of national interest, especially since he's now in the largest media market.*


*Though the Plaza Auto Mall and Fiberama ads that will run locally during the game may mask the fact it is the nation's largest media market.
   1986. jmurph Posted: December 02, 2020 at 02:07 PM (#5992070)
The optics of KD's first game action since going out trying to win another Finals with GSW is a narrative of national interest

Oh yes no question, they need no excuse to put the Nets on national tv a lot. Kyrie, wherever he is in terms of the top players, is also incredibly popular.
   1987. NJ in NJ Posted: December 02, 2020 at 02:08 PM (#5992071)
I think there is some potential bad blood between KD and at least Draymond, and that entertains me as a neutral.

This.

EDIT: I think this board tends to be older/more level headed and thus not as interested in the soap opera aspect of the games.
   1988. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: December 02, 2020 at 02:29 PM (#5992075)
I think this board tends to be older/more level headed and thus not as interested in the soap opera aspect of the games.

#### you, I'm not old.

I think manufactured drama is dumb, but I do enjoy the legit beefs. I tend to think the Draymond/KD could be real, because they're both a little different in their own ways. But quite often, it's just the fanbases as many of these guys are actually friends. If nothing else, things like this make the dregs of the regular season more interesting and can add additional tension to bigger matchups. As a big NBA fan who watches tons of games, who actually plays on Christmas doesn't really matter to me, since I'm gonna see plenty of those games anyway. Anything to draw in more attention is good by me.

The fact teams are already reporting to camp really did sneak up on me. I'm ready for more NBA, but it being so soon after the draft and FA just doesn't *feel* natural.
   1989. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: December 02, 2020 at 02:48 PM (#5992081)
Fernando Rodney did not get into a game in 2020, so I think I'm officially "older" than every MLB player.
   1990. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: December 02, 2020 at 02:54 PM (#5992083)
My partner is not traditionally a sports fan, but does take an interest in her alma mater's basketball team and in me -- so we've taken to watching a lot of NBA together. (I don't inflict MLB on her, by and large, though we do see a few minor league games every year and I'd love to show her non-pandemic KBO.) Weird anecdotes and manufactured beefs are wonderful for this purpose.
(To that end, if you haven't read Taylor Rooks' recent piece on the bubble in GQ, check it out.)
   1991. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: December 02, 2020 at 03:26 PM (#5992089)
LiAngelo Ball signed a non-guaranteed deal with the Pistons. (I guess this might be an E10 deal and that they'd later trade for his D league rights from OKC?)
edit: yeah, people on twitter are saying that's likely the case
   1992. tshipman Posted: December 02, 2020 at 04:58 PM (#5992105)
Hilarious Jo Noah story:

John Hollinger
@johnhollinger
·
9h
Best practice guy we ever had.

One story: Once, during a shooting competition, he's looking for somebody to talk #### to besides his opponent, and sees me on the sideline. So he starts yelling "the PER formula does NOT account for this!" after every make.

Salute.
   1993. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: December 02, 2020 at 05:35 PM (#5992112)
I love Noah. Wish he still had something left, he'd be a great end of the bench guy to come back and root for here in Chicago.
   1994. asinwreck Posted: December 02, 2020 at 05:42 PM (#5992115)
Noah is, at the very least, going to have a Luol Deng-style retirement with the Bulls. Given his relationship with Donovan, I would not be surprised to see him back in some capacity.
   1995. CFBF's Results are Certified Posted: December 02, 2020 at 06:51 PM (#5992125)
Donovan and Noah always had a complicated relationship at Florida. Donovan's a conservative Catholic, and Noah is...um, not that. Curious if they've stayed connected over the years.
   1996. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: December 02, 2020 at 06:53 PM (#5992126)
48 out of 546 NBA players tested positive for COVID during first round, per Shams.
   1997. asinwreck Posted: December 02, 2020 at 06:58 PM (#5992127)
Donovan and Noah have indeed stayed connected. When Donovan got the Bulls job, he said of Noah:

"He's actually talked about coming back and doing charity work for the Bulls, maybe later in his career," Donovan said this week. "I think he's probably going to evaluate what the next step for himself is as a player. I think he's probably looking at that right now, what that looks like with the Clippers."

Donovan said he spoke to Noah on Wednesday. Noah's Arc Foundation kept a footprint in Chicago, including Noah participating in a peace march and block party here in August 2018.

"We talked for a while. He had unbelievable things to say about the city of Chicago. He had incredible things to say about the organization," Donovan said of his Wednesday phone call with Noah. "He obviously spent the majority of his career in Chicago, loved every minute of it. But I'm obviously close to him and he's a great guy and great competitor. He's got an unbelievable heart and a caring guy and I think just even besides coming to Chicago now with the Bulls, I heard him speak so favorably about the organization and the city while he was here.
   1998. tshipman Posted: December 02, 2020 at 07:09 PM (#5992128)
He had unbelievable things to say about the city of Chicago.


My favorite thing about Noah is the unprintable things he had to say about the city of Cleveland.
   1999. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: December 02, 2020 at 08:01 PM (#5992138)
My favorite thing about Noah is the unprintable things he had to say about the city of Cleveland.
feel free to ask him about the time he shared a cab with patrick kane
   2000. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: December 02, 2020 at 08:09 PM (#5992141)
Flip for woj bomb
Page 20 of 24 pages ‹ First  < 18 19 20 21 22 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
greenback used to say live and let live
for his generous support.

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

Hall of Merit2022 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
(85 - 10:02am, Jan 25)
Last: Kiko Sakata

NewsblogNationals, Brad Hand agree to one-year, $10.5 million deal, per reports
(6 - 10:01am, Jan 25)
Last: Paul d mobile

NewsblogNBA 2020 Season kick-off thread
(1024 - 9:57am, Jan 25)
Last: Der-K's emotional investment is way up

NewsblogMASN cutting on-air talent, reportedly slashing pregame and postgame shows for Orioles and Nationals
(14 - 9:56am, Jan 25)
Last: Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert

NewsblogOT - Soccer Thread - Winter Is Here
(703 - 9:55am, Jan 25)
Last: jmurph

NewsblogHall of Famer Henry "Hank" Aaron dies at 86.
(148 - 9:14am, Jan 25)
Last: Howie Menckel

NewsblogNY Mets GM acknowledges sending unsolicited, explicit images while working for Cubs
(184 - 7:14am, Jan 25)
Last: Lassus

NewsblogSources: New York Yankees acquire pitcher Jameson Taillon from Pittsburgh Pirates for four prospects
(23 - 6:54am, Jan 25)
Last: catomi01

NewsblogBraves re-sign Pablo Sandoval
(2 - 12:30am, Jan 25)
Last: What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face?

NewsblogAaron’s death prompts call to change name: Braves to Hammers
(41 - 10:40pm, Jan 24)
Last: Der-K's emotional investment is way up

NewsblogNationals' Ryan Zimmerman: Rejoining Nationals for 2021
(4 - 8:35pm, Jan 24)
Last: The Yankee Clapper

NewsblogOT - 2020 NFL thread
(14 - 6:41pm, Jan 24)
Last: SoSH U at work

Newsblog2021 BBHOF Tracker Summary and Leaderboard – Baseball Hall of Fame Vote Tracker
(579 - 4:05pm, Jan 24)
Last: McCoy

NewsblogHall of Fame pitcher Don Sutton dies at 75
(59 - 3:55pm, Jan 24)
Last: yest

NewsblogSource: Jurickson Profar, San Diego Padres agree to 3-year, $21 million deal
(14 - 2:18pm, Jan 24)
Last: Tom Goes to the Ballpark

Page rendered in 0.6543 seconds
48 querie(s) executed