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Monday, October 26, 2020

NBA Post-Bubble offseason thread

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA but we should have enough posters to fill out a mock draft regardless.

Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: October 26, 2020 at 07:08 PM | 1980 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: mock draft, nba, off-topic

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   201. jmurph Posted: October 30, 2020 at 09:45 AM (#5986647)
Nash, D'Antoni, Durant, Kyrie, just a murderer's row of head coaches on that team.
   202. tshipman Posted: October 30, 2020 at 11:06 AM (#5986655)
Brooklyn seems so, so dysfunctional.

D'antoni did get caught out in the cold. Feel bad for Pringles.
   203. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: October 30, 2020 at 11:49 AM (#5986660)
I mean, if they need someone to teach the dark arts, I'm fairly confident Raja Bell is available.
   204. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: October 30, 2020 at 12:44 PM (#5986665)
Marc Stein @TheSteinLine ·33m

NBA players may only be offered a 50-game season, I'm told, if the union insists on a mid-January start rather than the Dec. 22 proposal, because the league's television partners do not want the 2020-21 season to stray past mid-July ... or clash with the Tokyo Olympics

Marc Stein @TheSteinLine ·29m

A 50-game season would reduce player salaries significantly in 2020-21, since NBA pay adheres to a regular-season schedule

The NBA's 72-game model calls for teams to play roughly 14 games a month through May, followed by the playoffs through mid-July -- before the Olympics begin

Marc Stein @TheSteinLine ·24m

The Pacers' Malcolm Brogdon, who is on the union's executive committee, told @Rachel__Nichols yesterday he expects today's deadline on talks to be extended for the fourth time this year.

But a resolution in the standoff is expected by next week with all sides antsy for clarity.
   205. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: October 30, 2020 at 12:48 PM (#5986668)
NBA players may only be offered a 50-game season, I'm told, if the union insists on a mid-January start rather than the Dec. 22 proposal, because the league's television partners do not want the 2020-21 season to stray past mid-July ... or clash with the Tokyo Olympics


Obviously getting down to crunch time here when the threats are going public. I bet they end up agreeing on December 22. Money talks.
   206. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: October 30, 2020 at 12:53 PM (#5986671)
NBA players may only be offered a 50-game season, I'm told, if the union insists on a mid-January start rather than the Dec. 22 proposal, because the league's television partners do not want the 2020-21 season to stray past mid-July ... or clash with the Tokyo Olympics

This is what I was saying last week (or a couple days ago, I have no sense of time anymore). Given the likely Olympics constraint, a 72-game season seems wildly optimistic and counter to the recent trend of more player-friendly rest and travel schedules.
   207. tshipman Posted: October 30, 2020 at 01:10 PM (#5986674)
I think 72 games reflects a good faith effort by the NBA on giving players an option that preserves most of the salary.
   208. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: October 30, 2020 at 01:58 PM (#5986690)
so far this (72 v 50 game theoretical proposals) is going more or less like i'd expect. i'm guessing the final answer is something closer to 72 (as said, money talks), though the league ought to relax on resting stars, etc... in that scenario. (besides, it's not like ticket sales would necessarily be all that impacted)

they can only move the end date so far back without pissing off current/potential tv partners (olympics) - which leaves us with the start date. accordingly, i'm with those who thought that the draft was moved too far back. yeah, i know teams need to know the next year's cap so they can trade/make plans but they could spitball -or- be wrong. that flexibility has turned out to matter.
   209. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: October 30, 2020 at 05:32 PM (#5986730)
Pablo S. Torre @PabloTorre
After years of waiting...

The @SamHinkie Episode.

This isn’t a typical #ESPNDaily. But with the Sixers hiring Daryl Morey, Sam subjected himself to my inquisition about, well, pretty much everything.

Listen to the full show. IT IS WORTH YOUR TIME:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/espn-daily/id1482680261#episodeGuid=821b098c-1abb-11eb-ae6e-bfac81b05b2e
   210. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: October 30, 2020 at 11:37 PM (#5986762)
okay, i am now preparing to live blog this.
   211. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: October 30, 2020 at 11:38 PM (#5986763)
sam hinkie's "hi pablo" in the first minute is the most [chefs kiss] impersonation of sam hinkie that i've ever heard.
   212. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: October 30, 2020 at 11:38 PM (#5986764)
it's all downhill from here.
   213. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: October 30, 2020 at 11:55 PM (#5986765)
what was your reaction [to your friend getting your old job]?

SH: i'm stoked.
   214. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: October 30, 2020 at 11:57 PM (#5986766)
pablo: "i'm trying to scale the castle"

SH [as pablo]: "please tell me about your private conversations."
   215. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: October 31, 2020 at 12:00 AM (#5986767)
this is awful. i'm out.


it must never be said again that this guy didn't talk enough to the media. this is a ####### trainwreck.



(i'm now 7 minutes in)
   216. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: October 31, 2020 at 12:02 AM (#5986768)
"summer league felt like getting the answers to a test"


it is no wonder that people hate this guy so ####### much.
   217. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: October 31, 2020 at 12:06 AM (#5986769)
"joel embiid is like a meme-lord"

ugh.
   218. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: October 31, 2020 at 12:08 AM (#5986770)
what is reaction to joel embiid [naming himself the process in honor of you]

"i giggled"

[narrator: he did not giggle]
   219. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: October 31, 2020 at 12:09 AM (#5986771)
"he's funny in a 2nd language. imagine that."
   220. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: October 31, 2020 at 12:11 AM (#5986772)
"some of my students at stanford did a study, and it said that the average GM tenure for the sixers over the last 20 seasons was 2.81 years."


billy king
ed stefanski
[doug collins]
tony dileo
sam hinkie
brian colangelo
[brett brown]
elton brand
[daryl morey]


jesus; he's not wrong.
   221. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: October 31, 2020 at 12:15 AM (#5986773)
"i was like this when i was 12. this is how we talk in our house. 'there's a 7% chance of...'"

"i didn't sit my family down and have a talk; i was worse; i sent a letter. to a bunch of people. not just my family"
   222. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: October 31, 2020 at 12:24 AM (#5986774)
"if being laughed at is important for you to avoid, then it's going to be difficult for you to do anything new, different, contrarian."

[never go FULL HINKIE]
   223. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: October 31, 2020 at 12:29 AM (#5986775)
daryl morey, if nothing else, is significantly more popular than you are

"right. he does a good job of that. he's very fun to be around."
   224. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: October 31, 2020 at 12:30 AM (#5986776)
"the sixers are not in a great spot right now"
   225. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: October 31, 2020 at 12:31 AM (#5986777)
what is daryl morey inheriting right now?

"he's got 2 great players, and then he'll have to figure a bunch of stuff out."

"they're not an asset deficit."

"they have lots of 2nd rounders still coming"


[HAHAHAHAHHa; okay that line makes this whole thing worth it.]
   226. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: October 31, 2020 at 12:36 AM (#5986780)
"for ben simmons to be truly great, [shooting 3s] is the part of his game you'd like to see develop"

"for as big as he is, you'd love to see him finish around the rim, get to the FT line"

"you look at the playoffs, see jimmy butler throw himself at guys and get to line, because that's where the easy money is. that ties into shooting a bit."

"i look back at chuck hayes; the problem wasn't that he was a 50% FT shooter; the problem was that he didn't want to get fouled."
   227. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: October 31, 2020 at 12:39 AM (#5986781)
does the pair of joel embiid and ben simmons make sense?

"i'd be loathe to move on from one or both. yes, you could trade a young player for an older, better fit player who's not as good"

"were you to consider doing something like that, you should consider it very carefully because the party will end sooner."

"the party might be fun, but it'll end much sooner."
   228. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: October 31, 2020 at 12:41 AM (#5986782)
"i would make a terrible ESPN analyst"

[he's not wrong]
   229. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: October 31, 2020 at 12:46 AM (#5986784)
when you were watching brian colangelo burn your house down, there had to be some reaction, right?

"it was not a lot of fun"

"my last season in philadelphia, my last half season, was not a lot of fun. it was stressful."

   230. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: October 31, 2020 at 12:50 AM (#5986785)
"the fanbase in philadelphia is very bifurcated. a lot of people had seen everything that had happened [since 2001], and wanted more. a lot of other people had seen a lot of success for the sixers, and wanted it back, and wanted it back right now."

"when i think back on my time in philadelphia, with hindsight, i loved it; it was great."
   231. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: October 31, 2020 at 12:52 AM (#5986787)
jahlil okafor, sam. is that just an 'L' you have to accept.

"that's the nature of the job. you have to accept all the Ls"


[let the record show that i object to the framing of this question]
   232. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: October 31, 2020 at 12:59 AM (#5986789)
what percentage chance is there that you return to the sixers?

"zero."


what is the percentage chance that you are back in the NBA at some point?

"zero."
   233. Oriole Tragic Posted: October 31, 2020 at 03:53 AM (#5986795)
@Moses I'll take Phoenix again, if it's still open, thanks.
   234. SteveF Posted: October 31, 2020 at 03:47 PM (#5986839)
I couldn't make it past 4 minutes of that Hinkie interview. I have little regard for Pablo Torre, and Hinkie is... Sam Hinkie. I prefer him in letter/book form where his humor seems less awkward.
   235. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: October 31, 2020 at 04:01 PM (#5986842)
I couldn't make it past 4 minutes of that Hinkie interview. I have little regard for Pablo Torre, and Hinkie is... Sam Hinkie. I prefer him in letter/book form where his humor seems less awkward.

it gets less terrible at some point, but you made a good decision to drop it.

pablo torre enjoys talking too much to be very good at interviewing, and with an interview subject who is as locked down as sam hinkie, it just didn't work. hinkie actually gets pretty animated when you get him talking about scouty stuff, things he sees in the gym, in practices. asking him about meta-commentaries, rumor-mongering, actuarial tables and private conversations is just a ####### death knell.

it was a very poorly structured questioning.
   236. Hot Wheeling American Posted: October 31, 2020 at 06:37 PM (#5986857)
"some of my students at stanford did a study, and it said that the average GM tenure for the sixers over the last 20 seasons was 2.81 years."

A study?
   237. smileyy Posted: October 31, 2020 at 07:33 PM (#5986860)
Peer-reviewed even.
   238. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: October 31, 2020 at 10:32 PM (#5986904)
We still have a number of additional draft spots to fill...
   239. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: November 01, 2020 at 01:28 AM (#5986924)
I'm updating the first page, but highlighting who is still available. If you were wishy washy, I didn't add you yet. I will assign people if that's what I have to do...

1. Minnesota - aberg
2. Golden State - DCA
3. Charlotte - Votto
4. Chicago - Moses
5. Cleveland - Thok
6. Atlanta - Der-K
7. Detroit - Crosseyed and Painless
8. New York - NJ in NJ
9. Washington - Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant
10. Phoenix - All Oriole Tragic heard was ruff ruff
11. San Antonio - Hot Wheeling American
12. Sacramento - smileyy
13. New Orleans - JJ1986
14. Boston (from Memphis) - If on a winter's night a traveling violation
15. Orlando - Athletic Supporter
16. Portland - mike f
17. Minnesota (from Brooklyn via Atlanta) - aberg
18. Dallas - Dandy Little Glove Man
19. Brooklyn (from Philadelphia via LA Clippers) - stevegamer
20. Miami - AG#1Fan
21. Philadelphia (from Oklahoma City via Orlando and Philadelphia) - tshipman
22. Denver (from Houston) - asinwreck
23. Utah - Booey
24. Milwaukee (from Indiana) - Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw
25. Oklahoma City (from Denver) - Thok
26. Boston - If on a winter's night a traveling violation
27. New York (from LA Clippers) - NJ in NJ
28. Los Angeles Lakers - Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim
29. Toronto - BaseballObscura
30. Boston (from Milwaukee via Phoenix) - If on a winter's night a traveling violation

31. Dallas (from Golden State) - Dandy Little Glove Man
32. Charlotte (from Cleveland via LA Clippers and Orlando) - Votto
33. Minnesota - aberg
34. Philadelphia (from Atlanta) - tshipman
35. Sacramento (from Detroit via Phoenix) - smileyy
36. Philadelphia (from New York) - tshipman
37. Washington (from Chicago) - Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant
38. New York (from Charlotte) - NJ in NJ
39. New Orleans (from Washington via Milwaukee) - JJ1986
40. Memphis (from Phoenix) - Willard Baseball
41. San Antonio - Hot Wheeling American
42. New Orleans - JJ1986
43. Sacramento - smileyy
44. Chicago (from Memphis) - Moses
45. Orlando - Athletic Supporter
46. Portland - mike f
47. Boston (from Brooklyn via Charlotte, Orlando and Philadelphia) - If on a winter's night a traveling violation
48. Golden State (from Dallas via Philadelphia) - DCA
49. Philadelphia - tshipman
50. Atlanta (from Miami via Sacramento, Cleveland and Boston) - Der-K
51. Golden State (from Utah via Dallas, Detroit and Cleveland) - DCA
52. Sacramento (from Houston) - smileyy
53. Oklahoma City - Thok
54. Indiana - stiggles
55. Brooklyn (from Denver) - stevegamer
56. Charlotte (from Boston) - Votto
57. LA Clippers - stiggles
58. Philadelphia (from Los Angeles Lakers via Orlando) - tshipman
59. Toronto - BaseballObscura
60. New Orleans (from Milwaukee)- JJ1986
   240. asinwreck Posted: November 01, 2020 at 09:52 AM (#5986932)
I can take Denver if no one objects.
   241. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: November 01, 2020 at 10:19 AM (#5986934)
I will take Detroit.
   242. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: November 01, 2020 at 12:54 PM (#5986939)
Kurt Helin @basketballtalk
Report: James Wiseman does not want to get drafted by Minnesota
nba.nbcsports.com/2020/11/01/rep…
   243. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: November 01, 2020 at 03:00 PM (#5986946)
I'll take the Lakers again.
   244. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: November 01, 2020 at 05:42 PM (#5986962)
I volunteered to draft for the Bucks on the previous page, and am willing to co-GM with spivey if he wishes (I think he's the only other Bucks fan here.)
   245. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: November 01, 2020 at 08:15 PM (#5986972)
If we fill all of the drafting teams, Houston (with no draft picks) is also up for grabs.
   246. spivey Posted: November 01, 2020 at 08:47 PM (#5986976)
I'm good with you taking the Bucks, Griffey.
   247. stevegamer Posted: November 01, 2020 at 10:19 PM (#5986978)
Hey guys, if you need me to take a team, let me know.

I've been very busy helping friends with some very time consuming things, but at least I'm done clearing out an apartment for a friend who lived in the same one for 30+ years, and who couldn't get back into the country to do anything. So I'm home a whole lot more.

I'm somewhat happy with the Rivers & Morey hires for the 76ers. Morey is pretty much the best GM the team has had in a while - he's certainly better than Hinkie, yet should still get the Process-lovers behind him. Rivers might be able to figure something out with the current roster - but the number of bad decisions over the last number of years have really put the team far behind the 8-ball.
   248. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: November 01, 2020 at 11:21 PM (#5986981)
I'm somewhat happy with the Rivers & Morey hires for the 76ers. Morey is pretty much the best GM the team has had in a while - he's certainly better than Hinkie, yet should still get the Process-lovers behind him. Rivers might be able to figure something out with the current roster - but the number of bad decisions over the last number of years have really put the team far behind the 8-ball.
i feel like this is an unnecessary shot at a portion of the fanbase that has been forced to eat a ton of #### since hinkie was nepotism'd out of a job. people didn't like colangelo (for good reason, clearly), but he was given a fair shot by the fanbase, even the rabid process fanboys who just wanted to see this thing work.

   249. NJ in NJ Posted: November 02, 2020 at 07:13 AM (#5986986)
Having actually met/interacted with Morey and Hinkie in personal settings before, I actually find Hinkie the more engaging and "normal" (mannerisms, affectations, etc.) of the two in that context. Interview Hinkie is another beast altogether. While I didn't have the visceral negative reaction some had to it here there were a few things I thought were cringe/made me pause:

1. The Stanford "study" thing. I mean...at most they did some addition and some division. I really hope that's not the bar for a study at Stanford.

2. Hinkie does this really weird thing where what he's discussing is having friends/friendships, but he verbalizes it in the strangest way as though it was merely a business transaction (Really wish I remembered the exact wording but it was was something along the lines of him investing in X and in turn reaping that benefit down the line). Now, mind you, there are some transactional interpersonal relationships and does point that out, but what I'm talking about are actual legitimate friendships with people like Embiid and Ben Falk.

3. Hinkie's explanation for why he skipped the Allen Iverson night to go speak to Ben Falk highlights an aspect of the GM job he wasn't good at. I'm sorry, I love Ben Falk/Ben Falk's work, but it just doesn't make sense to miss a major night for one of your franchise's signature stars to go have dinner with Ben Falk. That Ben Falk dinner gets moved to a different date.

4. Whenever he goes full VC guy. I just...those guys are the worst.
   250. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 02, 2020 at 07:56 AM (#5986989)
I have kind of disappeared since the finals (not that it was that noticeable), but I am back and can take a team if needed.
   251. jmurph Posted: November 02, 2020 at 09:15 AM (#5986995)
4. Whenever he goes full VC guy. I just...those guys are the worst.

His resignation memo was all I needed to see/hear of the guy ever again.
   252. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 02, 2020 at 09:17 AM (#5986996)
245/AS - stevegamer should be philly, stiggles should be houston, they should conduct at least one trade.

I really hope that's not the bar for a study at Stanford.
Well, have you met John Ioannidis? (shutting up, out of my depth here)
   253. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 02, 2020 at 09:31 AM (#5986999)
Thanks to those who volunteered!

Not yet assigned:
5-CLEVELAND, 9-WASHINGTON, 11-SAN ANTONIO, 16-PORTLAND, 20-MIAMI, 23-UTAH (where's booey?), PHILLY (gamer, would you like philly?), INDIANA, BROOKLYN, CLIPPERS, NEW ORLEANS, HOUSTON


   254. Rally Posted: November 02, 2020 at 09:36 AM (#5987000)
I really hope that's not the bar for a study at Stanford.


They have some good ones. One dissertation found that in plate appearances by Ty Cobb that did not result in a sacrifice, walk, or hit by pitch, he was 36.6 percent likely to achieve a base hit.
   255. DCA Posted: November 02, 2020 at 10:07 AM (#5987004)
To be fair, it may have been a more substantial project (e.g. looking at factors affecting tenure for professional sports front office employees) and this was just a relevant data point pulled from it.
   256. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: November 02, 2020 at 10:28 AM (#5987008)
That reminds me of the time I went to a guest lecture about Tony Gwynn being the best hitter of all time. Same kind of math. (And the related project was only slightly more substantial.)
   257. Booey Posted: November 02, 2020 at 11:20 AM (#5987019)
#253 - I was fine letting someone else draft for the Jazz if they wanted them, since I don't follow college hoops at all. I'll take them though since it appears we're short on participants.
   258. Hot Wheeling American Posted: November 02, 2020 at 11:47 AM (#5987023)
So long as a full write-up isn't expected, I'll volunteer for San Antonio.
   259. tshipman Posted: November 02, 2020 at 12:17 PM (#5987027)
Happy to take any of the teams left to help out, but want to leave room for folks with strong preferences.

***

Hinkie reminds me of the line from the Social Network: "You’re not an #######, Mark. You just try so hard to be.”

Hinkie was a pretty #### GM, but he was shitty in a different way from the usual bad GMs.
   260. mike f Posted: November 02, 2020 at 12:40 PM (#5987031)
I can take Portland again if nobody else wants them. And draft a mediocre wing again (Chandler Hutchison, I’m looking at you).
   261. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: November 02, 2020 at 01:20 PM (#5987034)
Hinkie reminds me of what would happen if I was a GM. You have to have supreme confidence, usually to an unrealistic extent. I may be confident in some aspects of my abilities but I would also avoid hanging out with the jocks because they might make fun of me.
   262. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 02, 2020 at 01:23 PM (#5987035)
I wouldn't mind taking Washington, just to take a team.
   263. aberg Posted: November 02, 2020 at 01:27 PM (#5987036)
I'm very open to trading the #1 pick. I think a big part of any trade would be future draft capital and that doesn't really make sense in this type of exercise, but I'd still discuss 21 draft picks in trades if anyone wants to go down that road. Charlotte and Indiana seem like possible partners.

To that end, Votto, what do you think of PJ Washington and next year's first rounder for the #1 overall pick, Jacob Evans, and Omari Spellman?
   264. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: November 02, 2020 at 01:56 PM (#5987041)
I reskimmed the thread, but keep missing stuff so let me know if I missed something. I believe the following teams haven't been assigned yet - CLE, MIA, PHI, IND, BKN, LAC (and HOU) and 4 people volunteered but didn't pick a team - tshipman, Thok, AG#1 Fan, stevegamer. It's most important to get the first rounders assigned, so unless anyone objects, I'm making the follow EXECUTIVE DECISION ASSIGNMENTS:

CLE: Thok
MIA: AG#1Fan
BRK: stevegamer
PHI: tshipman (because this will be the most entertaining possibility for the thread; of course, stevegamer can have the Sixers again if he really wants...)
IND/LAC/HOU: stiggles - since it's only end of the 2nd round (or no pick), he can have all of them unless someone else speaks up. I see no reason why stiggles also can't trade between his 3 teams if he so desires...

We might as well get started, too. aberg, you're on the clock.
   265. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: November 02, 2020 at 02:16 PM (#5987042)
IND/LAC/HOU: stiggles - since it's only end of the 2nd round (or no pick), he can have all of them unless someone else speaks up. I see no reason why stiggles also can't trade between his 3 teams if he so desires...
this news can only be considered great


the sixers are doing their doc and daryl (v.2.0) introductory press conference right now, and they all (including GM elton brand and owner josh harris) look stone miserable.
   266. Oriole Tragic Posted: November 02, 2020 at 02:44 PM (#5987049)
PHO is open to trading pretty much any pick/player. I'll come up with ideas later; just letting the thread know I'm open for business.
   267. asinwreck Posted: November 02, 2020 at 02:48 PM (#5987050)

the sixers are doing their doc and daryl (v.2.0) introductory press conference right now, and they all (including GM elton brand and owner josh harris) look stone miserable.


Moreso than Rick Hahn during the Tony La Russa introduction?
   268. tshipman Posted: November 02, 2020 at 03:28 PM (#5987051)
Philadelphia is making Ben Simmons and Al Horford available.
   269. tshipman Posted: November 02, 2020 at 03:31 PM (#5987052)
@Thok:

OKC gets:
Al Horford
Mike Scott
#21 overall

Philadelphia gets:
Chris Paul

?
   270. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: November 02, 2020 at 03:40 PM (#5987053)
Kyle Neubeck @KyleNeubeck
Howard Eskin gets his first question in for Morey, claiming he knows Morey has to say nice things today on his first day.

Morey: “Do I have to say nice things about you?”


Moreso than Rick Hahn during the Tony La Russa introduction?
probably not.
   271. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 02, 2020 at 03:40 PM (#5987054)
@269 - I really like Chris Paul to Philly in theory. The health of that team is scary though. I would rather have Simmons though (obviously) if I were OKC.
   272. tshipman Posted: November 02, 2020 at 03:47 PM (#5987055)
I would rather have Simmons though (obviously) if I were OKC.


I mean, in analytics land, Chris Paul should have negative value, but Al Horford does, too.

Edit: and don't worry, we're shipping out Simmons, too.
   273. aberg Posted: November 02, 2020 at 04:02 PM (#5987056)
Is there a Wolves package than can get Simmons?

#1, #17, Beasley S&T, Culver?

edit: I know you're not a fan of Russell, but if a third team wants to get involved, he could be on the table.
   274. tshipman Posted: November 02, 2020 at 04:09 PM (#5987057)
I'm trading Simmons because I am trying to win a championship with Joel Embiid. I don't think there are any players on the Wolves who represent fair value who would help with that.

It'd have to be a 3 team trade, where #1 goes to the third team and another asset comes back.

Also, Simmons trades are lowkey very hard because he has an 8 million cap number and a much larger salary for trade purposes.
   275. JJ1986 Posted: November 02, 2020 at 04:10 PM (#5987058)
Are we going to use a $109m cap for trade purposes?
   276. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: November 02, 2020 at 04:20 PM (#5987059)
Also, Simmons trades are lowkey very hard because he has an 8 million cap number and a much larger salary for trade purposes.
fwiw, that shouldn't be true as of the new league year.
I'm trading Simmons because I am trying to win a championship with Joel Embiid.
personally, i'd lean the other way if i thought this was a decision that had to be made immediately. simmons should have a longer window, and the value he provides is much harder to replace.

embiid is hugely valuable on both ends of the floor, but you can find a nerlens noel to emulate his defensive presence, and you can find various #1 scoring options throughout the league. embiid is rare in that he combines both of those attributes (though not without gassing himself by the 2nd quarter), but the attributes themselves are somewhat fungible.

simmons' ability to defend 1-5 at an all-NBA level, to be a 6'10" PG, to do various other things (other than shooting and scoring) are much harder to replace off the scrap heap.
   277. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: November 02, 2020 at 04:23 PM (#5987060)
Nothing on the Bulls is nailed down, including the pick. But I'm not really looking to move up per se.
   278. DCA Posted: November 02, 2020 at 04:29 PM (#5987061)
Looks like trade talk has begun.

GSW, picking second, are interested in trading down in the lottery. Full disclosure - the only guy we want at #2 is Wiseman, as long as he is available we are happy to keep the pick if we don't like the offers. If someone trades up to #1 take Wiseman ahead of us, then we would probably move the pick for the best offer.

I can see two main ways to make this work

(1) we pick up someone useful to fit in the Iguodala exemption - Phx (Oubre) and SA (Gay) seem to be the most obvious potential fits
(2) we package Wiggins and the #2 for someone else on a maxish deal. I like Wiggins fit on the GSW roster so this isn't just paying the #2 to make him go away, I want talent in return - Orl (Vucevic), NO (Jrue), SA (LaMarcus) seem like the most obvious potential fits

I guess there's also (3) where we move Wiggins for someone worse on a maxish deal - Phi (Horford) or Cle (Love) might work - but then I'd need to get someone else in the exchange.

I think this works from a salary cap perspective but until the trade machine is up and running for 2021, I have very little confidence in my cap machinations if it's not straightforward.

Everyone is potentially available except Steph, Klay, Draymond, and Damion Lee.
   279. tshipman Posted: November 02, 2020 at 04:30 PM (#5987062)
personally, i'd lean the other way if i thought this was a decision that had to be made immediately. simmons should have a longer window, and the value he provides is much harder to replace.

embiid is hugely valuable on both ends of the floor, but you can find a nerlens noel to emulate his defensive presence, and you can find various #1 scoring options throughout the league. embiid is rare in that he combines both of those attributes (though not without gassing himself by the 2nd quarter), but the attributes themselves are somewhat fungible.

simmons' ability to defend 1-5 at an all-NBA level, to be a 6'10" PG, to do various other things (other than shooting and scoring) are much harder to replace off the scrap heap.


Simmons has greater limitations and the rest of the roster fits better with Embiid.

Simmons has to improve dramatically to be the anchor of a championship team. He needs to answer questions about his ability to drive elite offense, to score in the playoffs, and to counter a game plan. Embiid just needs to be in better shape.

Simmons is younger, and he has more potential, but I think that Embiid is a bit of a time bomb, so I'm trying to maximize his window. I think the NBA is wiiiide open in 2021, and by just setting up the talent to complement Embiid by moving Harris to his natural position and putting more shooting around Embiid, I can make the team dramatically better.
   280. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: November 02, 2020 at 04:30 PM (#5987063)
(1) we pick up someone useful to fit in the Iguodala exemption - Phx (Oubre) and SA (Gay) seem to be the most obvious potential fits
HOU is willing to make eric gordon, pj tucker and robert covington available.
   281. tshipman Posted: November 02, 2020 at 04:33 PM (#5987064)
I guess there's also (3) where we move Wiggins for someone worse on a maxish deal - Phi (Horford)


This is my backup plan if Chris Paul falls through.

I'm not adding value though. It has to be straight up, Horford for Wiggins. Horford makes your team so much better it's crazy.
   282. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 02, 2020 at 04:37 PM (#5987065)
Washington wants assets. Wi
ll trade anything and everything.

This is a bad team. Does anyone want to blow me away with a Bradley Beal offer?
   283. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: November 02, 2020 at 04:42 PM (#5987066)
Simmons has greater limitations and the rest of the roster fits better with Embiid.
the rest of the roster is trash, so their fit is insignificant.
Simmons is younger, and he has more potential, but I think that Embiid is a bit of a time bomb, so I'm trying to maximize his window. I think the NBA is wiiiide open in 2021, and by just setting up the talent to complement Embiid by moving Harris to his natural position and putting more shooting around Embiid, I can make the team dramatically better.

the risk of doing this is very high, and the reward for getting it right is very narrow.

i get that the championship window looks open right now, but i just don't think it's necessary yet.
   284. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: November 02, 2020 at 04:45 PM (#5987067)
This is a bad team. Does anyone want to blow me away with a Bradley Beal offer?
any interest in oladipo?
   285. tshipman Posted: November 02, 2020 at 04:47 PM (#5987068)
This is a bad team. Does anyone want to blow me away with a Bradley Beal offer?


Is there a way to make a three teamer work where the structure of the trade looks roughly like this:

Beal to Philadelphia
#1 overall to Washington
Simmons to Minnesota

?

(Washington's cap is pretty messed up so I don't know if this deal is actually possible.)
   286. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: November 02, 2020 at 04:49 PM (#5987069)
any interest in oladipo?


Well, he does pair well with Wall from an injury perspective.

So, no. :)
   287. JJ1986 Posted: November 02, 2020 at 04:53 PM (#5987070)
New Orleans is potentially interested in Beal, but it would have to be a three-team trade. Does anyone with a high-pick have interest in Jrue Holiday?
   288. DCA Posted: November 02, 2020 at 05:00 PM (#5987071)
GSW do, but have to shed Wiggins to make it work. We'd be interested in Beal too.
   289. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: November 02, 2020 at 06:03 PM (#5987077)
Assuming Hayward is exercising his $34m option (curious how we're handling player options in this exercise), I would be interested in exploring some options, though I'd be happy to start the season with him. I'm also interested in rearranging my pick situation, either by consolidating assets to move up or trading for future picks.
   290. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: November 02, 2020 at 06:14 PM (#5987081)
The Bucks are interested in Jrue Holiday if the Pelicans are interested in some combo of Eric Bledsoe, Donte Divincenzo, #24, uh DJ Wilson, Ersan Ilyasova, Robin Lopez...

after a week of thinking about Bledsoe trades, I'm not sure there's actually one out there that makes the Bucks better. Would love to be proven wrong if anyone else here has ideas.
   291. spivey Posted: November 02, 2020 at 06:38 PM (#5987083)
The Bucks are interested in Jrue Holiday if the Pelicans are interested in some combo of Eric Bledsoe, Donte Divincenzo, #24, uh DJ Wilson, Ersan Ilyasova, Robin Lopez...

after a week of thinking about Bledsoe trades, I'm not sure there's actually one out there that makes the Bucks better. Would love to be proven wrong if anyone else here has ideas.


My friend, who I do the Bucks ticket packages with, and I were discussing this recently.

I think they do exist. But some of it depends on: what OKC wants for Paul. Is 1 first enough? Is 2 bad firsts enough? There's a big enough disparity that such a trade likely requires throwing in enough useful bodies, like BroLo, that the Bucks probably get worse in the regular season, but would probably be better in the playoffs.

I think there's a potential trade with the Clippers to be had. The Clippers need a real PG and could maybe use a center like BroLo. There's probably something that could be packaged up like this. Maybe the Clippers say no to this, but I think there are trades that can probably help both teams. Maybe someone like Donte needs to be included, or Zubac not (though I'm unclear if he actually has positive value on his deal), or a first rounder included.
   292. mike f Posted: November 02, 2020 at 07:41 PM (#5987088)
Anyone interested in cj? Cj for Simmons?
   293. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: November 02, 2020 at 08:03 PM (#5987090)
I think there's a potential trade with the Clippers to be had. The Clippers need a real PG and could maybe use a center like BroLo. There's probably something that could be packaged up like this. Maybe the Clippers say no to this, but I think there are trades that can probably help both teams. Maybe someone like Donte needs to be included, or Zubac not (though I'm unclear if he actually has positive value on his deal), or a first rounder included.
fwiw, i have no interest in eric bledsoe in this mock thing.

i think any team with championship aspirations is going to view eric bledsoe as the same kind of postseason liability that MIL does.
   294. stevegamer Posted: November 02, 2020 at 09:46 PM (#5987094)
i feel like this is an unnecessary shot at a portion of the fanbase that has been forced to eat a ton of #### since hinkie was nepotism'd out of a job. people didn't like colangelo (for good reason, clearly), but he was given a fair shot by the fanbase, even the rabid process fanboys who just wanted to see this thing work.


Stiggles:

I'm not taking a shot here. I agree that the Process fanboys (to use your term) wanted to see it work, but the animus directed at those who weren't a fan of Hinkie's methods at the time was pretty vocal. I know, I got a bunch of it. You yourself call them fanboys.

What you fail to remember is that we long-term fans who were unhappy with tanking got told loudly and often about that if we weren't a fan of the Process where we got to 'enjoy' crappy basketball for years in a search for a better future that we weren't real Sixers fans. And as somebody who fondly remembers acquiring Doc, and I mean the real Doc, not the coach, it's pretty sad.

Hinkie's issue is that he treated everything as an asset and was trying to get better assets, but when you are building a team, those assets have to fit together. It's not nearly as easy as say, an investment portfolio.

Regarding the draft, thanks for giving me a random team that isn't the 76ers. I don't think I've ever had them before, honestly.
   295. stevegamer Posted: November 02, 2020 at 09:51 PM (#5987095)
Brooklyn is open for business. Anyone except Durant could possibly be had.

Yes, that includes Irving for anyone wanting a better PG.
   296. spivey Posted: November 02, 2020 at 09:54 PM (#5987096)
i think any team with championship aspirations is going to view eric bledsoe as the same kind of postseason liability that MIL does.


I agree, though I expect that Clippers may view their are issues with their roster and having a PG that can create more for others counteracts that at least some. But if his value is so low, then you probably just have to hope he catches lightning in a bottle and makes a few threes one of these postseasons
   297. NJ in NJ Posted: November 02, 2020 at 09:56 PM (#5987097)
Knicks looking to move up. Everything except Barrett (maybe) and Mitchell Robinson (definitely) is available.
   298. stevegamer Posted: November 02, 2020 at 10:07 PM (#5987098)
If the Clippers want a PG, how about this as a core idea:
Kyrie Irving Trade

Likely would want a pick back as well, but it fits the need for a point guard.
   299. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: November 02, 2020 at 10:10 PM (#5987099)
spivey, I think that Clippers trade makes the Bucks worse full stop, not just worse in the regular season, but I don't think the Clips would do it either.

I think the only teams that will be willing to pay fair value for Bledsoe are crappy ones like the Hawks or the Hornets, but trading him for Dwayne Dedmon or Terry Rozier or whoever isn't going to solve anything either. Instead I think maybe the move is to sign or draft a guard who can knock down shots, spend time working them in during the regular season, and then just be more willing to sit Bledsoe when the time comes.
   300. Oriole Tragic Posted: November 02, 2020 at 10:56 PM (#5987101)
287. JJ1986 Posted: November 02, 2020 at 04:53 PM (#5987070)
New Orleans is potentially interested in Beal, but it would have to be a three-team trade. Does anyone with a high-pick have interest in Jrue Holiday?

Is #10 high enough?
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