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Sunday, August 01, 2021

New York Mets don’t sign first-round draft pick Kumar Rocker before deadline

The New York Mets did not sign right-hander Kumar Rocker, the 10th overall pick in the amateur draft, before Sunday’s 5 p.m. ET signing deadline.

“This is clearly not the outcome we had hoped for and wish Kumar nothing but success moving forward,” acting Mets general manager Zack Scott said in a statement. “We’re excited about the players we have signed and look forward to watching them develop and contribute to the organization in the years to come.”

Rocker, 21, whose dominance at Vanderbilt made him the most well-known college player in perhaps a decade, had an agreement in place to sign for $6 million after he slipped down draft boards earlier this month. But the deal fell apart following his physical examination as the Mets expressed concern over the health of Rocker’s arm, sources said.

Rocker’s agent, Scott Boras, said in a statement that his client is healthy.

“Kumar Rocker is healthy according to independent medical review by multiple prominent baseball orthopedic surgeons. Immediately upon conclusion of his collegiate season, he had an MRI on both his shoulder and his elbow. When compared with his 2018 MRIs, the medical experts found no significant change. Kumar requires no medical attention and will continue to pitch in the regular course as he prepares to begin his professional career,” he said.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 01, 2021 at 08:08 PM | 100 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: kumar rocker, mets

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   1. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: August 01, 2021 at 11:20 PM (#6032104)
I wish Rocker all the best. The Mets will look bad if he becomes a star, even if he does need TJ surgery in the interim. I mean, they already look bad for wasting a pick, but you could argue it was a calculated risk -- drafting a pitcher that fell due to injury concerns -- and simply didn't pay off.
   2. 57i66135 right now is attacking rest Posted: August 01, 2021 at 11:40 PM (#6032107)
hahahahahahhahahha
   3. Howie Menckel Posted: August 01, 2021 at 11:41 PM (#6032108)
they get a compensatory pick of No. 11 in the first round next year, I believe. that doesn't seem like nothing
   4. Walt Davis Posted: August 01, 2021 at 11:49 PM (#6032111)
What happens to Rocker now? Is he an FA?
   5. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: August 02, 2021 at 12:04 AM (#6032114)
EDIT: apparently he’s not going back to college, but he’s eligible for next year's draft. Not a FA.

Good point, Howie.
   6. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: August 02, 2021 at 12:14 AM (#6032115)
they get a compensatory pick of No. 11 in the first round next year


Why would they get that? It's like being rewarded for not getting the job done in the first place. If they were concerned about him, then they should've selected someone else. I know unusual things happen but as we have all seen, top flight picks don't always work out for a variety of reasons.
   7. Howie Menckel Posted: August 02, 2021 at 12:25 AM (#6032116)
I think it's because it's collectively bargained, and it has happened each previous time that the player didn't sign (I think McLain ARI 2018 was the last one).

if a smart organization did this, I might see it as a clever gamble - if you can get Rocker to go to your docs and he passes the audition, you might have a best-in-draft pick at No. 10.

and if not, you pick 11 the following year.

admittedly, this is the Mets.

and yes, Rocker said he's not returning to Vanderbilt. he'll play in an independent league or overseas if that's kosher.

I know this is good for Boras because next time, one of his clients who claims he won't sign will not be perceived as bluffing. and as I noted, not sure how bad this result is for the Mets, either.

the biggest loser? might be Rocker.
   8. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 02, 2021 at 12:28 AM (#6032117)
Interesting.

Typically, a team has to offer a player 40% of his slotted bonus -- the 10th-pick slot is $4.74 million -- to reap a compensation pick for an unsigned player. Because Rocker was selected for the league's pre-draft MRI program and did not participate, however, the rules allow the Mets to forgo an offer and still receive the pick.


Gamble by Rocker's side. I wonder if he goes to Japan to get paid like Carter Stewart did? Or if maybe he'll sit out, then showcase a few innings in an indy league before the draft? I certainly wouldn't risk going back to Vanderbilt.
   9. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 02, 2021 at 12:44 AM (#6032119)
Typically, a team has to offer a player 40% of his slotted bonus -- the 10th-pick slot is $4.74 million -- to reap a compensation pick for an unsigned player. Because Rocker was selected for the league's pre-draft MRI program and did not participate, however, the rules allow the Mets to forgo an offer and still receive the pick.
Well, they took Rocker, and then didn’t make an offer, which to me should make him a Free Agent, not someone who has to wait a year for the next draft. Not really a surprise that the team is somewhat protected by the compensatory pick, while the player is punished, but it’s unfair, even by the standards of professional sports.
   10. Howie Menckel Posted: August 02, 2021 at 01:32 AM (#6032120)
seems to me that Rocker rolled the dice by not agreeing to an MRI, thus forfeiting the bargained-for protection.

if he wasn't informed of this scenario by Boras, he needs a lawyer. good luck with that.

again, seems like a win for Boras, a draw for the Mets, and a loss for Rocker as the preliminary outcome.
   11. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: August 02, 2021 at 02:20 AM (#6032121)
OK, I didn't know any of the stuff posted in #8. However if he didn't participate in that MRI thing, wouldn't that raise a red flag to anyone considering drafting him?
   12. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: August 02, 2021 at 03:50 AM (#6032122)
Well, they took Rocker, and then didn’t make an offer

Where are you seeing that they didn’t make him an offer? The article says they didn’t have to do so, not that they didn’t. And would seem to directly contradict your point either way.
   13. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: August 02, 2021 at 07:23 AM (#6032123)
Rocker not agreeing to have an MRI done before the draft would be a huge red flag to me - and it meant that he was no longer guaranteed at least 40% of the slot value of his draft position (which sounds like a little under $2m of guaranteed money).

The Red Sox are getting some criticism locally for not signing their 2nd round pick (#40 overall, top of the second round), Jud Fabian, who refused something like $2.5 million to see if he could improve his stock at Florida next year. But with both the Mets at #10, and the REd Sox at #40, MLB uniquely provides a pretty big consolation prize if you don't sign a guy: the same pick, dropped one slot, the next year.

So, the Mets are going to have both the #11 pick in 2022, and whatever they finish this year (probably something like the 20th pick), and they'll get the slot money attached to the #11 pick, too, obviously. This gives them a lot of flexibility in going over or under slot in 2022. They can go for a "signability" pick at #11 next year, go way under the slot amount, and then go way over slot with their lower 1st rounder,or their 2nd rounder. This is how you get a top player who could go back to school, so he drops out of the top 10 because teams are afraid he won't sign...and then you swoop in at #20 or whatever and offer him $2m more than slot, and get a top 10 talent at #20.

Honestly, once the Mets saw Rocker's arm, they may have determined that offering him a contract - even half of slot - wasn't worth the advantages of having the #11 pick and slot money in 2022.
   14. . . . . . . Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:23 AM (#6032127)
Agree with everyone above. Huge win for Boras, who made his future clients’ threats not to sign more credible. Win for the Mets since they also made future threats not to sign damaged pitching prospects credible and didn’t have to pay $$ to a guy with a damaged arm, in exchange for a immaterial penalty.

And a crushing loss for Rocker, who got ###### hard by his agent. Always take the money, if you’re a pitcher!
   15. KronicFatigue Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:49 AM (#6032128)
Always take the money, if you’re a pitcher!


Always take the money, ALWAYS (at first). Unless you come from an extremely wealthy family, that first pay day is a life altering game changer. If he takes the MRI he gets 40% of 4.7mm guaranteed, right? So, absolute worst case scenario is that he has about a million, after taxes, and a blown arm to show for his baseball "career".

If his arm isn't blown out, and he has an actual career, then the only harm is that he's left money on the table for his first of several contracts. By not signing, he's betting on himself to have a future, but in the most ludicrous way possible. The first couple million you make is so much more valuable than all the millions after. Boras of course doesn't care, because he's already rich, and has diversified his risk.
   16. . . . . . . Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:56 AM (#6032130)
Unless you come from an extremely wealthy family, that first pay day is a life altering game changer.


Even if you come from an extremely wealthy family. There's simply no way Rocker has increased the expected NPV of his career earnings by turning down the Mets' contracts. The system is rigged against Rocker to take away his leverage, but life is unfair and your advisors are supposed to help you look past the emotions to maximize your results.

He is very badly advised.

   17. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 02, 2021 at 09:31 AM (#6032134)
Well this is going to be used as Exhibit A for the MLBPA in their next CBA talks.

@StevenACohen2
Education time - Baseball draft picks are worth up to 5x their slot value to clubs .I never shy away from investments that can make me that type of return.


Cohen is right, of course, which makes it all the more puzzling why you'd try to save - what, $2M? I get that the injury risk is a red flag and you don't want to fly blind, but every pitcher is an injury risk. With his talent, it's a risk worth taking IMO. If he is good enough to be a fifth starter for two years before blowing out his elbow, he will have already netted you millions in surplus value.
   18. The Duke Posted: August 02, 2021 at 09:50 AM (#6032139)
This just seems disastrous for the Mets.

1. He dropped to 10 which means it was likely known that there were arm concerns and they still took him. So they either knew he was an injury risk or didn’t know. Either answer is bad
2. It’s obvious to me “they didn’t know”. Why? Because they went underslot on all their picks after.
3. By going underslot, they actually now have a draft that looks like they lost their first and second round picks - basically that’s a lost draft
4. They didn’t use a late round pick on a pick that may have required a material bonus - this is what you should do if you have any concerns that you might not sign your first rounder (see: point 2). At least then you could salvage the draft.
5. It indicates Cohen is not nearly as smart as everyone makes him out to be. Even if you are concerned, you still pay Rocker - what’s the worst that happens, TJS?

All in all the Mets front office issues over the past 24 months are really bad. Sexual harassment, incompetence, poor drafting, massive overpay on Lindor. It’s not a good look.
   19. Howie Menckel Posted: August 02, 2021 at 09:56 AM (#6032143)
when I read posts 17 and 18, it all makes sense if not for..... oh, the Mets get the 11th pick in next year's draft.
   20. Darren Posted: August 02, 2021 at 10:14 AM (#6032146)
Did other pitchers take the MRI?
   21. Charles S. is not doing chainsaw bears any more Posted: August 02, 2021 at 10:16 AM (#6032148)
Huge win for Boras, who made his future clients’ threats not to sign more credible.


I'm not sure how this is a win for Boras. I don't see anything that says the Mets came back with a lowball offer after the $6 million was taken off the table. It's a win for Boras establishing a precedent for saying "No" only if Rocker really did say "No" to something. I don't see where he did. The Mets pulled the offer based on their examination of the arm. Boras seems like no more than a spectator here.
   22. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 02, 2021 at 10:20 AM (#6032149)
Cohen is right, of course, which makes it all the more puzzling why you'd try to save - what, $2M?

No, they save the pick. The calculus is that next year's #11 is going to be worth more than Rocker. That's all they need to believe.
   23. Adam Starblind Posted: August 02, 2021 at 10:22 AM (#6032150)
Even if you are concerned, you still pay Rocker - what’s the worst that happens, TJS?


No, the worst that happens is he's Mark Appel. Not that the Appel scenario makes it an intolerable risk, but it's entirely possible that taking next year's #11 pick instead of signing Rocker was rational. We've got no idea what the MRI showed.
   24. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: August 02, 2021 at 10:25 AM (#6032152)
Round and about the internets I see the Mets taking a lot of flack for this, but (mostly for reasons already noted here), it's really Rocker who dropped the ball (so to speak). The declining marginal value of money is, of course, the most serious issue, but there's also the fact that, as a first-round pick, Rocker can do a lot worse next year, but not much better. There are far more draft slots below where he was taken than above.

He's not going back to Vanderbilt, which minimizes further injury risk, but sitting out a year also (1) makes you a stale prospect - who knows if you're still capable of your elite performance, and (2) makes it seem like you're babying your injured arm.

Now, the real confounding factor to any analysis is that we don't know the size of the Mets' updated offer. But I don't know that it would make much difference. If it was a large offer, then Rocker should have taken it because its the first million that counts and he's likely to receive less next year, and if it's a small offer than he should have taken it, because the Mets aren't going to torpedo their own draft unless the medicals are very bad. And if the medicals are very bad, then Rocker isn't going to do well next year either.
   25. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 02, 2021 at 10:34 AM (#6032155)
Now, the real confounding factor to any analysis is that we don't know the size of the Mets' updated offer. But I don't know that it would make much difference.

The Mets may have offered $0. If the meds are bad, they might prefer paying next year's #11 $6M to paying Rocker $1M.
   26. RobDeer Posted: August 02, 2021 at 10:39 AM (#6032156)
Was told the Mets cut bait completely with Kumar Rocker - they never put a contract on the table for him to accept or reject. Earlier there had been some thought the Mets might try to get him for a lower signing bonus.@NYPost_Mets


Rocker had diminished velocity this past season, Fangraphs has an informative post about it. Scouts pegged him as likely injured. And then Rocker declined to participate in MLB's MRI exam. It appears to me Rocker has tried to hide an injury, Mets took a chance on him because if healthy and/or cheap he's value at that draft spot, he's injured/expensive so they'll just take the comp pick next year.
   27. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: August 02, 2021 at 10:41 AM (#6032157)
He's not going back to Vanderbilt, which minimizes further injury risk, but sitting out a year also (1) makes you a stale prospect - who knows if you're still capable of your elite performance, and (2) makes it seem like you're babying your injured arm.

Is he really not going to pitch anywhere for a year? Weird. If he went back to Vandy he might make some real money on NIL. He would literally be the only college baseball player I have heard of.
   28. Adam Starblind Posted: August 02, 2021 at 10:44 AM (#6032159)
Now, the real confounding factor to any analysis is that we don't know the size of the Mets' updated offer. But I don't know that it would make much difference. If it was a large offer, then Rocker should have taken it because its the first million that counts and he's likely to receive less next year, and if it's a small offer than he should have taken it, because the Mets aren't going to torpedo their own draft unless the medicals are very bad. And if the medicals are very bad, then Rocker isn't going to do well next year either.


Reporting says the Mets never made an updated offer.
   29. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 02, 2021 at 10:49 AM (#6032161)

Is he really not going to pitch anywhere for a year? Weird. If he went back to Vandy he might make some real money on NIL. He would literally be the only college baseball player I have heard of.


He's not going to Vandy - why would you risk the college workload? He could go to Japan like Carter Stewart and make $1M or so, but that's an injury risk too. I think he probably sits out, maybe signs with an indy league team so he can dictate his workload, then throw a handful of innings leading up to the draft for scouts.
   30. Kiko Sakata Posted: August 02, 2021 at 11:19 AM (#6032162)
If he takes the MRI he gets 40% of 4.7mm guaranteed, right? So, absolute worst case scenario is that he has about a million, after taxes, and a blown arm to show for his baseball "career".


If he takes the MRI, he gets 40% of slot for where he's drafted. But the MRI is pre-draft, so if he takes the MRI and it looks really bad, he could fall well below the 10th pick in the draft.
   31. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 02, 2021 at 11:41 AM (#6032165)
Where are you seeing that they didn’t make him an offer?
That’s what is being reported:
Multiple sources told The Post the Mets completely cut bait with Rocker, never putting a contract on the table for him to accept or reject. ESPN reported that because Rocker was selected for MLB’s pre-draft MRI program and did not participate the Mets will receive the compensatory draft pick, even without the offer extended.
There’s also no reporting of any bonus negotiation, which seems likely to have leaked if it took place. It’s not like the Mets offered $3M, while Rocker insisted on the original $6M. Again, under such circumstances, it seems to me the fair thing is to make the player a free agent, not make him wait a year for another bite of the draft apple. We’ll see if the next CBA addresses this at all.
   32. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: August 02, 2021 at 11:45 AM (#6032166)
If he takes the MRI, he gets 40% of slot for where he's drafted. But the MRI is pre-draft, so if he takes the MRI and it looks really bad, he could fall well below the 10th pick in the draft.


In which case he can go back to Vandy and prove hes healthy.
   33. SoSH U at work Posted: August 02, 2021 at 11:52 AM (#6032169)
Again, under such circumstances, it seems to me the fair thing is to make the player a free agent, not make him wait a year for another bite of the draft apple.


Yes, that's a problem.
   34. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: August 02, 2021 at 11:53 AM (#6032171)
And a crushing loss for Rocker, who got ###### hard by his agent.

Boras tends to do that to his guys. 80% of the time it works out, 20% of the time he ##### them over.
   35. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: August 02, 2021 at 11:55 AM (#6032172)
He's not going to Vandy - why would you risk the college workload? He could go to Japan like Carter Stewart and make $1M or so, but that's an injury risk too. I think he probably sits out, maybe signs with an indy league team so he can dictate his workload, then throw a handful of innings leading up to the draft for scouts.

Workload risk is about the same in college versus Japan. He'll make more in Japan but as I said there's the NIL potential with Vandy. I have no idea what that would look like and I'm sure it's not seven figures, but it could be an intriguing opportunity. Ultimately, you're probably right that he does neither and essentially takes the year off. Even though that's the most frustrating outcome for Rocker, who I presume is competitive and wants to face real competition next year.
   36. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: August 02, 2021 at 11:57 AM (#6032173)
To add to #30, Rocker and his people had to take a guess. What is better for Rocker:

1) Get the pre-draft MRI, and hope it restores confidence from enough teams that Rocker is a solid pitching prospect; or
2) Skip the pre-draft MRI, knowing that will probably eliminate Rocker from several teams' draft boards entirely, but that it may cause one or more teams to feel they can take a chance on him, because they think he is worth the risk, they believe he is pretty healthy, etc.

They went with #2, and the Mets were the first team on the board willing to treat him like a Yankee Swap present. When they opened the present, they pretty clearly found out he was a dud. So much so, they didn't even offer him small money, because they thought the #11 pick in 2022 was more valuable than a bargain-bin price tag on Rocker.

I don't know how this isn't a total disaster for Rocker going forward. Eventually, some team will sign him for $250K or something if they see him pitching in an indy league or something, and he looks like he might be able to turn into Frank Tanana 2.0. But you have to think: If he had come out earlier, before this year, how much money would he have received as a bonus?

I agree with those above who see anything like even $1 million bonus as a life-changing amount of money. It is not that you can retire on it - it's that you can be 22 years old, debt free, probably own a home virtually without a mortgage, with a little bit of money left to invest beyond that. If it's $2 million, then obviously you are set up for financial success in life, even if you never pitch in a game after that.

I can't stand Boras, but if he knew that Rocker's arm was shot, then he probably was right to not do the MRI ahead of time - because then *nobody* would have drafted him. He probably thought if something like this Mets situation actually happened, then they would offer him "only" a million, and then Rocker would still have a million. If there was no #11 pick next year, they probably would have...but that draft pick is really valuable. It's a no-brainer, if you're the Mets.
   37. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 02, 2021 at 12:00 PM (#6032174)
Sources: Mets, Kumar Rocker deal did not fall apart over money

The Mets did not try to get a discount from their $6 million agreement with top draft pick Kumar Rocker, and the deal did not fall apart over money, according to people involved in discussions.

Rocker, like all of agent Scott Boras’ clients, did not release his medical information to teams prior to the draft. That was not a decision unique to Rocker -- and therefore not one designed to hide anything about him -- but a general policy....

Ultimately, the Mets did not want to sign Rocker at any signing bonus, according to two sources.


   38. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 02, 2021 at 12:22 PM (#6032179)
Again, under such circumstances, it seems to me the fair thing is to make the player a free agent, not make him wait a year for another bite of the draft apple.


And if he taken the MRI, and the Mets refused to sign him, he likely would be a FA.
   39. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: August 02, 2021 at 12:26 PM (#6032181)
Wow, for a guy who was rumored to go #1 overall earlier this spring, his arm must be completely shot.
   40. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: August 02, 2021 at 01:10 PM (#6032186)


Round and about the internets I see the Mets taking a lot of flack for this, but (mostly for reasons already noted here), it's really Rocker who dropped the ball (so to speak). The declining marginal value of money is, of course, the most serious issue, but there's also the fact that, as a first-round pick, Rocker can do a lot worse next year, but not much better. There are far more draft slots below where he was taken than above.


But the Mets weren't offering #10 draft slot money anymore. Assuming that maybe there was a deal to be done, it probably would have been more like 2nd round slot money. There may not be a lot more picks above the 2nd round, but there's a lot more money if you can go in the first round, especially with one of the early picks. So I don't think this is as bad a decision for Rocker as it is being made out to be. His father is the Eagles defensive line coach, which probably pays a few hundred grand a year, so he's in a position where he can afford to take some risk for higher upside -- he doesn't need the money right now.

(The Mets didn't make him a revised offer, but that might have been based on what they were hearing about what Boras/Rocker would accept. Maybe if they thought they could get him for $2 million they would have offered that, but they didn't bother since Rocker would only take $6.)


Is he really not going to pitch anywhere for a year? Weird. If he went back to Vandy he might make some real money on NIL. He would literally be the only college baseball player I have heard of.


I cannot imagine that Rocker would have made much from NIL. Even the top MLB stars barely make 7 figures, other than Trout who makes $3.5 million based on one article I saw.

   41. JRVJ Posted: August 02, 2021 at 01:19 PM (#6032187)
What I'm really not getting from this Rocker brouhaha is the amount of umbrage coming from certain MLB establishment types.

One example is Buster Olney, who is all-in on the structure of MLB and the draft (i.e., Olney is no Joe Sheehan, who basically wants to tear down MLB's financial structure to favor players). Look at these Tweets:


Buster Olney
@Buster_ESPN
MLB and the Players Association are jointly responsible for this, but how absurd is it that a team can draft a player and choose not to sign him, as with Mets and Kumar Rocker -- and the player can't sign anywhere under the MLB umbrella? What a joke.
Traducir Tweet
5:30 p. m. · 1 ago. 2021·

****

Jose Aguirre
@Roll1rish
·
18h
Because any player that didn’t like the team they were drafted by could just choose to hit the open market.
Buster Olney


@Buster_ESPN
Reply to
@Roll1rish
So it's OK for the teams to abuse the system but not the draftees?

5:34 p. m. · 1 ago. 2021·TweetDeck
   42. Ron J Posted: August 02, 2021 at 01:24 PM (#6032190)
#39 Yeah. You have to be pretty confident of the evaluation of the arm to not at least try a lowball offer.

Hmm, maybe the thought process was: Boras client. If he'll take a lowball offer, he's toast.

Boras clients tend to be willing to go the high risk, high reward route and Boras tries (and succeeds pretty frequently) to get them paid based on the best case scenario.
   43. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 02, 2021 at 01:28 PM (#6032191)
Again, under such circumstances, it seems to me the fair thing is to make the player a free agent, not make him wait a year for another bite of the draft apple.
And if he taken the MRI, and the Mets refused to sign him, he likely would be a FA.
He had a post-draft physical exam, which presumably included a MRI, and the Mets refused to sign him, but Rocker isn’t a free agent. The Mets are somewhat protected by the compensatory pick, and my point is that the player should receive some protection, too, by becoming a free agent, rather than punished because one team is possibly overly cautious, overly cheap or medically mistaken. If the Mets don’t want to pay Rocker, why should that prevent another team from taking what it deems to be a reasonable risk? The answer, of course, is that the primary purpose of the draft is to depress the cost of labor. That should change, especially for players such as Rocker who are drafted and then left high & dry when a team pulls its offer or never makes one.
   44. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 02, 2021 at 01:33 PM (#6032192)
He had a post-draft physical exam, which presumably included a MRI, and the Mets refused to sign him, but Rocker isn’t a free agent.

If he had taken the pre-draft MRI he would have been guaranteed 40% of slot. He didn't, presumably b/c he was trying to hide an injury. He shouldn't have done that.
   45. SoSH U at work Posted: August 02, 2021 at 01:36 PM (#6032193)
Jose Aguirre
@Roll1rish
·
18h
Because any player that didn’t like the team they were drafted by could just choose to hit the open market.


It seems to me that there should at least be a floor the drafting team is required to offer for a given slot. But I'm with Clapper. Allowing a team to draft a player, not make him an offer (and be protected for that decision) and he's still precluded from seeking employment elsewhere in the league for a full year is just wrong.
   46. JRVJ Posted: August 02, 2021 at 01:36 PM (#6032194)
The Mets are somewhat protected by the compensatory pick, and my point is that the player should receive some protection, too, by becoming a free agent, rather than punished because one team is possibly overly cautious, overly cheap or medically mistaken


If I understand the rules correctly (as cited in #8, et. al.), players have a right to such protection, provided they get a pre-draft MRI.

Not knowing what's on Rocker's MRI, it seems to me that 34 is spot-on: Boras played this wrong, and it's costing his client real money.
   47. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: August 02, 2021 at 01:38 PM (#6032196)
SBPT - Between this post and your Sox Therapy posts last night you are hurting my neck by making me nod in agreement. I do want to question one thing;

I can't stand Boras, but if he knew that Rocker's arm was shot, then he probably was right to not do the MRI ahead of time - because then *nobody* would have drafted him. He probably thought if something like this Mets situation actually happened, then they would offer him "only" a million, and then Rocker would still have a million. If there was no #11 pick next year, they probably would have...but that draft pick is really valuable. It's a no-brainer, if you're the Mets.


I think Rocker would have been better off with the pre-draft MRI even if they knew his arm was shot. If you are a team drafting 25th and I tell you "hey, you can get a potentially number one caliber pick but he's going to miss the first year of his career with Tommy John" I think you'd have to consider it. I'd bet the Rays would have been all over that.
   48. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 02, 2021 at 01:45 PM (#6032197)
Rocker did get an MRI after the season, he just didn't submit to the league's MRI program, FWIW.

"hey, you can get a potentially number one caliber pick but he's going to miss the first year of his career with Tommy John"


Also, FWIW, according to Martino's reporting, the Mets don't believe he needs surgery.
   49. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 02, 2021 at 01:53 PM (#6032198)
BA: Japan not really an option for Rocker


Since Rocker could make more in the 2022 MLB Draft as he can on the international amateur market, going to Japan for a year or two provides no clear financial benefit. He could head to Japan with the intent of meeting all the requirements to return as an international free agent, but that would mean that he would need to play in Japan through at least 2027 (to meet the six years of foreign professional experience requirement).
   50. SoSH U at work Posted: August 02, 2021 at 01:55 PM (#6032199)
If I understand the rules correctly (as cited in #8, et. al.), players have a right to such protection, provided they get a pre-draft MRI.


If a player won't submit to a pre-draft MRI, then teams should be required to treat that development with the wariness it warrants and, perhaps not use the 10th pick on him. But the teams are completely protected against all of the risk that comes with drafting a Kumar Rocker, up to and including offering him nothing at all.

It's not right.

   51. sanny manguillen Posted: August 02, 2021 at 02:13 PM (#6032203)
The answer, of course, is that the primary purpose of the draft is to depress the cost of labor.


From the players' point of view, like everything else in the CBA the purpose of the draft is to direct is to funnel player compensation toward established major leaguers.
   52. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 02, 2021 at 02:19 PM (#6032205)
From the players' point of view, like everything else in the CBA the purpose of the draft is to direct is to funnel player compensation toward established major leaguers.

Well yes. Unions are pretty much required to push for outcomes that benefit members at the expense of non-members.
   53. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 02, 2021 at 02:22 PM (#6032208)
If a player won't submit to a pre-draft MRI, then teams should be required to treat that development with the wariness it warrants and, perhaps not use the 10th pick on him. But the teams are completely protected against all of the risk that comes with drafting a Kumar Rocker, up to and including offering him nothing at all.

It's not right.


I'm not seeing how Rocker would have been better off getting drafted at #73, in your preferred system. He might be guaranteed $400K or so, but he'd have no shot at getting millions.

Rocker and his agent had the opportunity to submit the MRI and drive his spot down, and then he would have had the guarantee. They chose to roll the dice.
   54. SoSH U at work Posted: August 02, 2021 at 02:29 PM (#6032212)
I'm not seeing how Rocker would have been better off getting drafted at #73, in your preferred system. He might be guaranteed $400K or so, but he'd have no shot at getting millions.


Seriously, you think this system is ideal?

The Mets drafted this guy at No. 10. They offered him no money, and he's prevented from seeking employment in MLB for a full year. And the Mets suffer no consequences.
   55. Schtoopo Posted: August 02, 2021 at 02:35 PM (#6032214)
If I'm Rocker, I don't want to be the next Brady Aiken.
   56. . . . . . . Posted: August 02, 2021 at 02:47 PM (#6032219)
If the mets were unwilling to make an offer at any price, then it’s the shoulder that’s shot, not the elbow. That’s consistent, fwiw, with a velocity drop.
   57. Howie Menckel Posted: August 02, 2021 at 02:56 PM (#6032221)
The answer, of course, is that the primary purpose of the draft is to depress the cost of labor.

this happened with the NBA years ago, in the Glenn Robinson era. the owners were pissed at having to give, say, $50M to some snot-nosed kid who might be a bust.

but the real onus for change was the players themselves - angry at the kid backing them up made more money than the quality veteran did. so the bargaining was for incoming rookies to get ramrodded, leaving more money for the vets who, as noted above, are the members of the union.

one can still be unhappy with the result here. my point, though, is not to hold your breath waiting for the union to demand a change.
   58. Mike A Posted: August 02, 2021 at 03:02 PM (#6032223)
Isn't it kind of insane for a pitcher slated to go in rounds 1/2 to even go to college? Baseball America had Rocker going 8th in the 2018 draft to the Braves straight out of high school. Take the money, run, and if baseball doesn't work out then go get an education. It just seems way too risky to put that extra college wear on your arm.
   59. . . . . . . Posted: August 02, 2021 at 03:05 PM (#6032225)
Isn't it kind of insane for a pitcher slated to go in rounds 1/2 to even go to college? Baseball America had Rocker going 8th in the 2018 draft to the Braves straight out of high school. Take the money, run, and if baseball doesn't work out then go get an education. It just seems way too risky to put that extra college wear on your arm.


Yup. Even if you have money, like Rocker's family does.
   60. Jobu is silent on the changeup Posted: August 02, 2021 at 03:08 PM (#6032228)
Allowing a team to draft a player, not make him an offer (and be protected for that decision) and he's still precluded from seeking employment elsewhere in the league for a full year is just wrong.
It's almost like the MLBPA, which negotiated the agreement, doesn't give the slightest crap about players it doesn't represent.
   61. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 02, 2021 at 03:27 PM (#6032230)
It's almost like the MLBPA, which negotiated the agreement, doesn't give the slightest crap about players it doesn't represent.
Let’s be clear here. It’s the MLB owners who imposed the draft system, including the slotting caps & penalties, compensatory pick protections and option to no-offer a draftee. The MLBPA may not have been willing to strike or give up things that benefited its membership to try to change that, but the onus for the current system is on the owners.
   62. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: August 02, 2021 at 03:27 PM (#6032231)
Isn't it kind of insane for a pitcher slated to go in rounds 1/2 to even go to college? Baseball America had Rocker going 8th in the 2018 draft to the Braves straight out of high school. Take the money, run, and if baseball doesn't work out then go get an education. It just seems way too risky to put that extra college wear on your arm.


This has been studied (sorry I don't have links to the studies anymore). And it totally is. On average, high schoolers in the top couple rounds who refuse to sign get drafted lower in their next shot at the draft.
   63. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 02, 2021 at 03:42 PM (#6032233)
The Mets drafted this guy at No. 10. They offered him no money, and he's prevented from seeking employment in MLB for a full year. And the Mets suffer no consequences.
Exactly. The Mets get to ‘roll the dice’ on Rocker, and then have MLB provide a compensatory pick safety net, while Rocker is punished for betting on himself and not allowed to field offers from teams who might disagree with the Mets risk assessment.

Rocker pitched, and pitched well, throughout this season, including in the College World Series - it’s not like his arm was in a sling on draft day. The claim that he was ‘hiding an injury’ seems like somewhat of an overbid. We won’t know for sure, but my guess is that Rocker would be signed for significant money if other teams were allowed to make him an offer.
   64. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: August 02, 2021 at 03:42 PM (#6032234)
Do we really consider losing out on a draft pick for a year "no consequences"? They pick one spot later than they normally would, which isn't nothing, especially in the first round. They also lose out on development time for a highly rated prospect for a year. Especially with the Mets being a contender this year and potentially in the future, having a highly rated prospect next year rather than this year seems like a consequence.
   65. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: August 02, 2021 at 03:54 PM (#6032235)


Do we really consider losing out on a draft pick for a year "no consequences"? They pick one spot later than they normally would, which isn't nothing, especially in the first round. They also lose out on development time for a highly rated prospect for a year. Especially with the Mets being a contender this year and potentially in the future, having a highly rated prospect next year rather than this year seems like a consequence.


It's not "no consequences," but Rocker certainly faces worse consequences than the Mets do by not signing. Or at least, he takes more risk.

That being said, he had an insurance policy available with the pre-draft MRI and chose not to avail himself of it. It's not a fair system but everyone on both sides knew the system and the risks going in.
   66. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 02, 2021 at 04:02 PM (#6032237)

Seriously, you think this system is ideal?

The Mets drafted this guy at No. 10. They offered him no money, and he's prevented from seeking employment in MLB for a full year. And the Mets suffer no consequences.


Right, but the safeguard exists. If he had submitted the MRI as asked, they couldn't have done that.
   67. Addie Joss Posted: August 02, 2021 at 04:08 PM (#6032238)
Another thing to consider - does Boras, given the hundreds of millions of dollars he's made over the years, have a side agreement with Rocker and other pitchers he represents in Rocker's position to guarantee them a minimum amount (say 1 or 1.5 million) in case everything goes haywire for them? Paying out a million every five years or so in exchange for getting to represent most of the top college pitchers would be a good deal for Boras and good insurance for the players.
   68. SoSH U at work Posted: August 02, 2021 at 04:27 PM (#6032247)
Right, but the safeguard exists. If he had submitted the MRI as asked, they couldn't have done that.


He made a bad bet. He shouldn't get completely ###### by it, while the team's similar gamble costs nothing (and yes JAHV, I consider waiting a year to draft in almost the exact same spot to be close to no consequences. I'm confident the Mets will be fielding a team for the foreseeable future).
   69. Zach Posted: August 02, 2021 at 04:55 PM (#6032253)
Count me as saying Rocker should have taken the pre-draft MRI or shared his private MRI with selected teams.

The downside is that a bad MRI rules out a top of the first round payday. But any team willing to pay $6 million is going to insist on a complete physical before they sign any checks. That's just not an argument Rocker is going to win.

The upside is that he gets drafted by a team that sees the risk/reward as worth it. Lest we forget, Rocker pitched effectively all year, and still has the great slider. We all know there are no sure things with pitchers, so why not take the unsure thing that comes with a great slider attached? Realistic downside is what, middle of the second round? How many teams are going to pass on a potential ace twice?
   70. The Duke Posted: August 02, 2021 at 08:35 PM (#6032358)
There are like 30 analysts covering the drafts, doing mock drafts and NO ONE knew Rocker didn’t submit his MRI? I have to assume this is a very odd thing and it didn’t leak ?
   71. Adam Starblind Posted: August 02, 2021 at 10:29 PM (#6032430)
I read somewhere that the stars routinely do not submit to the pre-draft MRI, on the theory that they will be drafted and signed regardless.
   72. Howie Menckel Posted: August 02, 2021 at 10:33 PM (#6032435)
I believe that is true - but don't recall a similar case where a pitcher's fastball MPH takes a significant dip and they still get to play that same card.
   73. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 03, 2021 at 09:22 AM (#6032487)
Boras supposedly never submits to the league's MRI program, preferring to use his own.
   74. Ron J Posted: August 03, 2021 at 09:56 AM (#6032492)
#73 Which is fine. But when you're dealing with a guy who's slipped a lot due to health concerns and then don't give them your MRIs people are just always going to assume the worst.

I don't think he made a mistake. I think they took a calculated risk for a low shot at a high(ish) reward and it doesn't seem to have worked out.

My WAG is that it needed a 15% chance of success to pay off (assuming that Rocker is dealing with career threatening as opposed to career ending issues).
   75. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: August 03, 2021 at 10:04 AM (#6032496)
On average, high schoolers in the top couple rounds who refuse to sign get drafted lower in their next shot at the draft.

I followed this year's draft a lot closer than I have before because my mom's next-door neighbor was a highly-decorated graduating HS senior, Barbe (LA) HS RHP Jack Walker. I've extolled his awards and stats elsewhere, but since then, in addition to pitching the #1-ranked team in the nation to a 39-2 record and 5-A state championship, including 10 no-hit innings in the semi-final game, he's added some national Pitcher of the Year awards and MaxPreps National Player of the Year to his trophy case. Fastball sits low 90's, slider low-80's, curve mid-to-low 70's, and everything comes from the same arm angle with tons of movement. Perhaps the changes in the draft and minor league system have passed me by, but I can't believe he wasn't drafted. He is off to Mississippi State and teams knew what his signing number was. At least one team was close enough that if it were a major league free agent, they wouldn't have thought twice about meeting it. Maybe he adds a couple of mph to his fastball in college, but he's going to be hard pressed to be a better draft prospect than he was a few weeks ago.
   76. . . . . . . Posted: August 03, 2021 at 10:25 AM (#6032499)
I followed this year's draft a lot closer than I have before because my mom's next-door neighbor was a highly-decorated graduating HS senior, Barbe (LA) HS RHP Jack Walker. I've extolled his awards and stats elsewhere, but since then, in addition to pitching the #1-ranked team in the nation to a 39-2 record and 5-A state championship, including 10 no-hit innings in the semi-final game, he's added some national Pitcher of the Year awards and MaxPreps National Player of the Year to his trophy case. Fastball sits low 90's, slider low-80's, curve mid-to-low 70's, and everything comes from the same arm angle with tons of movement. Perhaps the changes in the draft and minor league system have passed me by, but I can't believe he wasn't drafted. He is off to Mississippi State and teams knew what his signing number was. At least one team was close enough that if it were a major league free agent, they wouldn't have thought twice about meeting it. Maybe he adds a couple of mph to his fastball in college, but he's going to be hard pressed to be a better draft prospect than he was a few weeks ago.


This is what I don't get. Any pitcher is a ticking time bomb that needs to maximize earnings ASAP. My signing number to get into the MLB system (and get on the clock to be put on the 40 man) would be super low - certainly no higher than slot money for the last pick in round 5 ($318,000). And if teams were unwilling to draft me - i.e., other players were worth more surplus value over slot - then I would find the most valuable degree NOW - i.e. go pitch for Duke or Stanford or Vandy or ND or UT, etc - rather than get a MS State degree, which is probably worth about, what, $40K? I can't imagine the delta in future baseball earnings between pitching at MS State or ND/Duke outweighs the difference in value between those degrees and an MS State degree, if your arm blows out.

It seems like every pitching prospect makes decisions like their injury risk is a fraction of reality. It is bizarre.
   77. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: August 03, 2021 at 10:54 AM (#6032504)
It seems like every pitching prospect makes decisions like their injury risk is a fraction of reality. It is bizarre.

One mitigating factor I left out above is that he did miss his junior season rehabbing from TJS, but he came back this year to post PlayStation numbers in addition to all the accolades mentioned above. He was 13-0 or 15-0 or something like that with an ERA of about 0.50, about 12 K/9, threw two actual no-hitters in addition to the 10 hitless innings in the state semi-final, and didn't allow an extra base hit all season. He was also the starting (and winning) pitcher in the State Final game his sophomore season at a school that has become a perennial state contender. I can't believe any team would have any questions about the soundness of his arm, at least to the extent that they can ever feel good about any pitcher's health.
   78. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: August 03, 2021 at 11:17 AM (#6032507)
Boras tends to do that to his guys. 80% of the time it works out, 20% of the time he ##### them over.


Is this still true? My sense, which is based on nothing but anecdote, is that Boras' #### is not working as well as it used to. I've always said that Boras was the guy I'd hire if I was a player. He has had great success over the years getting big money for guys that had no business getting it. It seems like in recent years he has not had the same level of success though. Does anyone know if my perception has any basis in reality?
   79. Jobu is silent on the changeup Posted: August 03, 2021 at 11:31 AM (#6032514)
Let’s be clear here. It’s the MLB owners who imposed the draft system, including the slotting caps & penalties, compensatory pick protections and option to no-offer a draftee. The MLBPA may not have been willing to strike or give up things that benefited its membership to try to change that, but the onus for the current system is on the owners.
That is all true, but the reason the owners are free to treat draftees and minor-leaguers as serfs is that anything collectively bargained is almost impossible to challenge (and generally for reasons that make some amount of sense). In this case, though, the party across the table is the MLBPA. That's a structural problem, not a Tony Clark problem - which was probably unclear in my snark above. Tony Clark is allowed to be the "other party" in sacred negotiations when he in fact represents you, me, Low-A catchers, Kumar Rocker, and Britney Spears all equally - which is to say not at all. There is agreement in place, but it is inherently one-sided.
   80. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: August 03, 2021 at 11:59 AM (#6032523)
Isn't it kind of insane for a pitcher slated to go in rounds 1/2 to even go to college?


From a strictly financial perspective, probably. However, while I know everyone's college experience is different, I wouldn't trade mine for millions of dollars. Being on a college team in a college environment, getting an education (if you want), and avoiding the headaches that come with slogging through the minor league system seems like a vastly better life experience. The question becomes what dollar value you put on it. I'm sure some will say that the virtual guarantee of a $5 - $10 million signing bonus means that there's no experience in college worth forgoing that amount of money. I fall on the other side where the college experience was so important that virtually no amount of money would get me to skip it. Either way, I don't think it's insane for a pitcher to make that choice.
   81. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: August 03, 2021 at 12:25 PM (#6032526)
Isn't it kind of insane for a pitcher slated to go in rounds 1/2 to even go to college? Baseball America had Rocker going 8th in the 2018 draft to the Braves straight out of high school. Take the money, run, and if baseball doesn't work out then go get an education. It just seems way too risky to put that extra college wear on your arm.


Yup. Even if you have money, like Rocker's family does.


His father went to college, his mother went to college, his maternal grandparents are from India, so quite possibly supporters of higher education, it's quite possible that his is a family where going to college is part of what is expected of you.

ETA: And that seems to have been precisely the reason:'

'“Kumar’s mom, Lu, always said, ‘Coach, I don’t know what you’re hearing, but my kid is coming to school,’” Corbin recalled. “I told her, ‘Do you know how many times I’ve heard that from a parent?’”

Rocker said his decision to come to Vanderbilt, ultimately, was his own. But his mom gave him a good push in that direction.'
   82. DCA Posted: August 03, 2021 at 01:38 PM (#6032550)
Another thing to consider - does Boras, given the hundreds of millions of dollars he's made over the years, have a side agreement with Rocker and other pitchers he represents in Rocker's position to guarantee them a minimum amount (say 1 or 1.5 million) in case everything goes haywire for them? Paying out a million every five years or so in exchange for getting to represent most of the top college pitchers would be a good deal for Boras and good insurance for the players.

I would be suprised if Boras (and other big agents) don't do exactly this. The cost of such a policy would be easily recouped by the benefits - enabling the players to individually make risky positive-EV decisions by reducing the downside risk. I think I have heard of prospects getting drafted, not signing, going to college (or back to college) and then purchasing an insurance policy in case they get hurt before the next draft rolls around. If I'm a super-agent, I have an arms-length relationship with company that issues such policies.
   83. Karl from NY Posted: August 03, 2021 at 03:33 PM (#6032587)
Not really a surprise that the team is somewhat protected by the compensatory pick, while the player is punished, but it’s unfair, even by the standards of professional sports.


This is the result of collective bargaining. The union agrees to this sort of rule because it doesn't benefit any current union members, only future ones. The members that vote on each CBA have reason to care only about themselves, not future competitors for their own jobs.

under such circumstances, it seems to me the fair thing is to make the player a free agent, not make him wait a year for another bite of the draft apple.


Same here. The rule doesn't exist to be fair to the team or the player, the rule exists to benefit current CBA voters by not creating more free agents to compete for their jobs.
   84. Howie Menckel Posted: August 03, 2021 at 04:48 PM (#6032622)
does Boras, given the hundreds of millions of dollars he's made over the years, have a side agreement with Rocker and other pitchers he represents in Rocker's position to guarantee them a minimum amount (say 1 or 1.5 million) in case everything goes haywire for them?

fwiw, the only college basketball star I can ever remember NOT getting an insurance policy while in college to protect against possible catastrophic injury was Duke's Bobby Hurley - who, of course, was involved in a rather catastrophic car accident only months after signing a mega-million dollar guaranteed contract with Sacramento.

can't imagine that expected first-round MLB picks don't do the same thing
   85. JRVJ Posted: August 03, 2021 at 07:17 PM (#6032663)
Question: should Rocker and his support team release his MRI?

I see no other way to tamper down the speculation as to what the Mets saw on the MRI they commissioned..... unless Rocker's MRi really is that ghastly.
   86. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 03, 2021 at 07:28 PM (#6032664)
Question: should Rocker and his support team release his MRI? I see no other way to tamper down the speculation as to what the Mets saw on the MRI they commissioned.....
Rocker could toss a few quality innings somewhere before the next draft and/or have showcase workouts for selected teams (probably not including the Mets). As part of whatever discussions followed, Rocker might give a team or two a peak at this year’s MRI, or a more recent one, but maybe not. If he pitched well enough, the MRI concerns would likely be considerably reduced, and some teams have drafted pitchers in the 1st round knowing they’ll need Tommy John surgery.
   87. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: August 03, 2021 at 07:46 PM (#6032668)
It seems like every pitching prospect makes decisions like their injury risk is a fraction of reality. It is bizarre.


Look how people, especially young people, have reacted to a pandemic, and a vaccine that is widely available for free.
   88. bunyon Posted: August 03, 2021 at 08:05 PM (#6032669)
Yeah, young healthy people - especially physical freaks like elite athletes really do think themselves immortal.

I’m inclined to agree that the MRI is ghastly. A lot of injuries are repairable. If he needed TJ, the Mets should want him and he should want a team (though maybe not the Mets) to pay for it.

Either the Mets are being foolishly conservative or Rocker’s arm is well and obviously ######. Is my guess.
   89. bfan Posted: August 03, 2021 at 08:09 PM (#6032670)
I think people are missing a big point here. It is because the Mets had the compensatory pick fallback, they were willing to pick that high. If that comp pick wasn’t available who knows how far he drops, if he stonewalls all on the MRI.
   90. Mike A Posted: August 03, 2021 at 08:16 PM (#6032673)
Yeah, I get that the college experience is important. Though if Rocker were drafted 8th in 2018, he would have been slotted to make about 5 million. That's a lot to risk, though as noted there is probably some sort of insurance policy. I liked college, but I'm not sure I five-million-dollar liked college.

Incidentally, the Braves in 2018 ended up drafting Carter Stewart, a prep pitcher from Florida. The Braves found issues with Stewart's wrist under examination, so they ended up offering him 2m, well below his 5m dollar slot. Stewart opted against signing with the Braves and ended up in Japan (6 yrs, 7 million). Stewart's agent? I bet you can guess.
   91. . . . . . . Posted: August 03, 2021 at 08:45 PM (#6032680)
Yeah, I get that the college experience is important. Though if Rocker were drafted 8th in 2018, he would have been slotted to make about 5 million. That's a lot to risk, though as noted there is probably some sort of insurance policy. I liked college, but I'm not sure I five-million-dollar liked college.


There are plenty of great college programs for non trad or part time students - most big state schools have them, and so do many of the elite private schools (Columbia and Yale make a point of taking athletes into their non trad programs every year). The next person not to go to college in my family will be the first since Coolidge was president, but if my kid has a million-dollar arm, he's going to learn the value of money before he learns partial differential equations.

Also, while the minors are a bit of a slog, I'm sure you get some great stories of chasing tail and getting into shenanigans as the bonus baby pitching in Peoria.
   92. JRVJ Posted: August 03, 2021 at 09:55 PM (#6032705)
86, assuming that Rocker wants elite 1st round money, I just don't see how JUST throwing a few innings prior to the 2022 draft is going to convince any MLB franchise to take a risk on him.

Phrased differently, it's difficult for me to see how an MLB franchise will be convinced that Rocker is not a huge injury risk, by virtue of him just throwing a few innings.

Ok, now some caveats: the Mets are a very weird organization, and it's not inconceivable that other franchises will think that the Mets are (a) Incompetent; (b) Incredibly sloppy; and/or (c) Manipulative Bstards who chose to skrew Rocker.

So there's a chance that somebody will discount the Mets' actions... but that's a mighty risk to take.
   93. bunyon Posted: August 03, 2021 at 10:22 PM (#6032713)
I loved college too. My living depends on lots of people thinking it’s an experience worth a lot of money. So I take the point that one might give up a good bit to go/play college ball. But if that were his calculation, he should be going back for his senior year and trying to graduate (I can’t find it, has he?).

I would love to have played college ball. But it isn’t really the same as going to college. They’re incredibly busy. I mean, I’m sure it’s a blast. But it isn’t what we had.

Hard to say in retrospect. Offer me six million dollars to go back and skip college? Probably not*. But if you’d offered me six million when I hadn’t had that experience yet? Yes. Easy choice.


* I mean, I’d probably pay six million to be 18 again.
   94. Mike A Posted: August 03, 2021 at 11:14 PM (#6032723)
But if that were his calculation, he should be going back for his senior year and trying to graduate (I can’t find it, has he?).
According to ESPN, he's not going back to Vanderbilt and will focus on his professional baseball career. I couldn't find out much about Rocker's academic career, but it doesn't look like he's graduated and his player page (prob old) says his major is 'undecided.'

And though I've questioned it, having to make a decision like Rocker did at age 18 is rough. I hope it all works out for him.
   95. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: August 04, 2021 at 10:43 AM (#6032761)
Also possible that Rocker dodged a bullet here. If there's something wrong with your arm, I'm not sure that you want the Mets' medical staff involved, what with them still using leeches and all. They'd probably diagnose him with an excess of black bile or something.
   96. Ron J Posted: August 04, 2021 at 11:42 AM (#6032778)
#95 To be fair it's obviously difficult to get first class medical care in New York given the problems the Yankees have also had in recent years.
   97. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: August 04, 2021 at 12:52 PM (#6032794)
The next person not to go to college in my family will be the first since Coolidge was president, but if my kid has a million-dollar arm, he's going to learn the value of money before he learns partial differential equations.


The philosopher Bias, one of the Seven Sages of ancient Greece, lived in the city of Priene in Asia Minor. It was sacked in the Successor Wars, and the population driven into exile.

One of Bias' friends spotted him in a long column of grimy refugees escaping from the sack and ruin of Priene. "I'm so sorry that you've lost everything," he commiserated. "Nonsense," replied Bias, "I carry all my things with me."

   98. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: August 04, 2021 at 01:53 PM (#6032805)
Matt Harrington part deux
   99. base ball chick Posted: August 05, 2021 at 12:13 AM (#6032922)
91. . . . . . . Posted: August 03, 2021 at 08:45 PM (#6032680)

... The next person not to go to college in my family will be the first since Coolidge was president


- ALL the females in your family since 1928 went to college?

WOW

not real too many folks in this country can say that
   100. Lassus Posted: August 05, 2021 at 07:49 AM (#6032936)
Also, while the minors are a bit of a slog, I'm sure you get some great stories of chasing tail and getting into shenanigans as the bonus baby pitching in Peoria.

I mean, much like with "Money money money, no college, money!", this path might not really be considered a priority by everyone.

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