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Sunday, August 09, 2020

Oakland Athletics OF Ramon Laureano charges Houston Astros dugout, sparks brawl

Oakland’s Ramon Laureano got hit by a pitch—for the third time in the three-game series—this one by Humberto Castellanos with one out in the seventh. Laureano began exchanging words with animated Astros hitting coach Alex Cintron, then left first base, threw down his batting helmet and began sprinting toward him.

Astros catcher Dustin Garneau tackled Laureano before the A’s outfielder reached Cintron, and a wild scene ensued.

Players rushed out of both dugouts to join the fray. A’s and Astros players who were sitting in the seats, observing COVID-19 social-distancing protocols, also rushed onto the field.

Laureano was ejected by plate ump Ted Barrett, and the umpiring crew could easily be heard yelling at the players to “get back to the dugout!” through a ballpark with no fans.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 09, 2020 at 08:42 PM | 56 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: alex cintron, astros, athletics, brawl, ramon laureano

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   1. JRVJ Posted: August 09, 2020 at 09:08 PM (#5968697)
He should be banned for 8 games, like Kelly was.

Brawling during a pandemic is amongst the dumbest things you can do.
   2. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: August 09, 2020 at 09:12 PM (#5968700)
that looks like gang activity to me.
   3. Meatwad Posted: August 09, 2020 at 09:20 PM (#5968703)
Cintron deserves a lot of blame for this.
   4. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 09, 2020 at 09:23 PM (#5968706)
As noted in the Omnichatter thread, Astros hitting coach Alex Cintron appears to be the instigator, leaving the dugout, yelling at Laureano (who was HBP twice in the game & 3 times in the series), gesturing at him to come on, and then starting toward Laureano, all while protected by a picket line of his own players. Coaches should be held to a higher standard, they’re part of management, and Cintron deserves a suspension equal or longer than whatever Laureano receives.
   5. Howie Menckel Posted: August 09, 2020 at 09:33 PM (#5968707)
if a coach can goad a player into a significant suspension, I think we just found a new market inefficiency in MLB.

guarantee your coaches payment of all fines, plus a 1 pct salary bonus per game served by a quality player - and you get full pay while you serve the suspension.

why not?
   6. SoSH U at work Posted: August 09, 2020 at 09:43 PM (#5968709)
why not?


In most cases the beneficiaries are the team that plays your opponent next, not you.
   7. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 09, 2020 at 09:55 PM (#5968711)
In most cases the beneficiaries are the team that plays your opponent next, not you.
If you’re playing a divisional rival, your team benefits from their losses against other teams.
   8. SoSH U at work Posted: August 09, 2020 at 10:02 PM (#5968713)
If you’re playing a divisional rival, your team benefits from their losses against other teams.


Except they're probably losing to a division rival (at least this season).
   9. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 09, 2020 at 10:18 PM (#5968715)
Except they're probably losing to a division rival (at least this season)
All teams in the Division don’t have the same record, or pose the same threat. The Athletics are in 1st place, 5.5 games ahead of the Astros. The Astros benefit if the A’s play without Laureano and lose more games, even if it’s still up to the Astros to win enough games on their own to make the games the A’s play without Laureano matter.
   10. Mayor Blomberg Posted: August 09, 2020 at 10:34 PM (#5968717)
Cintron deserves a lot of blame for this.


Yeap, coach got no business inciting.
   11. SoSH U at work Posted: August 09, 2020 at 10:49 PM (#5968720)
All teams in the Division don’t have the same record, or pose the same threat. The Athletics are in 1st place, 5.5 games ahead of the Astros. The Astros benefit if the A’s play without Laureano and lose more games, even if it’s still up to the Astros to win enough games on their own to make the games the A’s play without Laureano matter.


I could be wrong, but I don't think these conditions will apply every time, which could scuttle Howie's plan.

   12. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 09, 2020 at 11:05 PM (#5968721)
@OrtizKicks
We’ll know more soon, but a person I respect has been told that the A’s Ramón Laureano charged toward Alex Cintron because Cintron mentioned Laureano’s mother in a bad way.
In Latino culture, those are fighting words. #Astros #Athletics
   13. The Duke Posted: August 09, 2020 at 11:13 PM (#5968723)
1. No it’s ok. He should just say he was peacefully protesting like the people in Portland. Then, not only is it ok, it’s recommended. It’s one of the strange features of covid that you can’t spread it in a mass gathering IF the mass gathering is a peaceful protest. Those Chinese and their designer viruses, what will they think of next.
   14. Astroenteritis Posted: August 10, 2020 at 01:06 AM (#5968729)
The Astros just need to shut up and try to play some decent baseball. The A's just handed them their bleeps, and Houston's pitching staff is a shambles. Now I may not give a flip about this "season", but some people do, and jeez, having a coach inciting a brawl during a pandemic is just dumb.
   15. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: August 10, 2020 at 07:39 AM (#5968734)
The Astros just need to shut up and try to play some decent baseball.


If they were capable of that, they wouldn’t have needed to cheat in the first place.
   16. Ron J Posted: August 10, 2020 at 08:31 AM (#5968735)
#15 Does not logically follow. Cheating while being very good is not what you'd call uncommon.
   17. Rally Posted: August 10, 2020 at 09:04 AM (#5968736)
The proper punishment for this kind of behavior, considering the pandemic circumstances, is to ban both teams for the rest of the season and postseason.

To those who will say that I am biased in this assessment, I note that even doing so would not be enough to get the Angels into the postseason.
   18. Howie Menckel Posted: August 10, 2020 at 09:11 AM (#5968739)
the A’s Ramón Laureano charged toward Alex Cintron because Cintron mentioned Laureano’s mother in a bad way.
In Latino culture, those are fighting words.

what kind of words are they in other cultures?
   19. Jeff Francoeur's OPS Posted: August 10, 2020 at 09:39 AM (#5968743)
I assume it was something along the lines of "hijo puta" or "puta que te pario" which basically translates to "son of a whore" or the "whore that gave birth to you."
   20. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: August 10, 2020 at 10:05 AM (#5968749)
Coaches should be held to a higher standard, they’re part of management, and Cintron deserves a suspension equal or longer than whatever Laureano receives.

I for one am shocked to find evidence of a toxic management culture within the Houston Astros organization.
   21. Howie Menckel Posted: August 10, 2020 at 10:24 AM (#5968758)
I assume it was something along the lines of "hijo puta" or "puta que te pario" which basically translates to "son of a whore" or the "whore that gave birth to you."

ah, so "whimsical denigration of one's parent," in non-Latino cultures (apparently - who knew?)
   22. PreservedFish Posted: August 10, 2020 at 10:31 AM (#5968760)
what kind of words are they in other cultures?

One of the answers in yesterday's crossword puzzle was "YOMAMA". The clue was "Start of a playground insult," or something like that.
   23. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 10, 2020 at 11:02 AM (#5968771)
One of the answers in yesterday's crossword puzzle was "YOMAMA".
The New York Times ain’t what she used to be.
   24. Astroenteritis Posted: August 10, 2020 at 11:39 AM (#5968779)
If they were capable of that, they wouldn’t have needed to cheat in the first place.


Nor would the other eight or nine teams who were also cheating. And, at least in 2017, the team had an sOPS+ of 127 on the road and 110 at home, so they might have been better off not cheating. Definitely not defending the sign stealing, but yeah, they were a pretty good team.

As for this mess with the A's, MLB needs to stop this nonsense of benches clearing by handing out some stiff suspensions.
   25. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: August 10, 2020 at 12:03 PM (#5968784)
When I was a kid it was yelling "YOYOMA" that would instigate a fight. 'course my elementary school was bitterly divided over cellists. The cool kids in school referred to themselves as "the du Pre camp", and regarded the Yo-Yo Ma faction with disdain. (Which, to be fair, was reciprocated.)
   26. Ron J Posted: August 10, 2020 at 12:07 PM (#5968785)
#24 And take extra actions against coaches/managers who escalate things. I have nothing positive to say about Laureano here, but I'm far more concerned about Cintron. (assuming of course the reports are true. Laureano's actions are consistent with it being true)
   27. Mayor Blomberg Posted: August 10, 2020 at 12:19 PM (#5968790)
I don't even thing we need to worry about what Cintron said. Just what we can see of him was enough for me to think he needs stiff punishment.
   28. McCoy Posted: August 10, 2020 at 01:01 PM (#5968799)
A clear superspreader event if there ever was one
   29. Red Voodooin Posted: August 10, 2020 at 01:15 PM (#5968808)
Forget what Cintrón said or didn't say, why the #### are the Astros hitting Laureano three times in a series, twice in a game? There's bad-blood between the teams already and the Astros target a particular player three times in a weekend, knowing that he can't or won't charge the mound. Under any non covid situation, that third HBP (or maybe the second) would have started a mass melee with many suspensions.

Were they trying to bait the biggest hothead on the A's into starting something? Seems like it. When he wouldn't take the bait, after being plunked thrice, they send out an old goon to say the magic words.

Man, #### the Astros.
   30. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: August 10, 2020 at 02:13 PM (#5968837)
why the #### are the Astros hitting Laureano three times in a series, twice in a game?


The second one yesterday that triggered everything was a breaking ball. I'm pretty sure there was no intent there. I don't know about the previous two. I get why Laureano would be pissed at that point though. Even if it's unintentional getting hit three times in a weekend is going to get to you.
   31. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 10, 2020 at 02:20 PM (#5968839)
Even if it's unintentional getting hit three times in a weekend is going to get to you.
Especially if you're already down about your mother's professional choices.
   32. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 10, 2020 at 02:39 PM (#5968853)
Even if it's unintentional getting hit three times in a weekend is going to get to you.
The A’s Robbie Grossman was HBP twice Friday, so it’s 5 HBP by the Astros & none by the A’s for the series. At that point, intent is irrelevant - it either can be assumed, or still be unacceptable even if chalked up to negligence. A team can’t just send its pitchers to the mound and say sorry “no intent, just no control”.
   33. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: August 10, 2020 at 03:13 PM (#5968865)
I mean, as an A's fan, #### it, hit Robbie Grossman as much as you want. Don't break Ramon though.

Laureano is my favorite player, I'll take the good with the bad.
   34. Hank Gillette Posted: August 10, 2020 at 03:15 PM (#5968866)
It’s one of the strange features of covid that you can’t spread it in a mass gathering IF the mass gathering is a peaceful protest.


I suppose this is what passes for sarcasm these days, but the protests were outdoors (a mitigating factor in the spread of COVID-19), most of the protesters were wearing masks (another mitigating factor), and many were social distancing (still another mitigating factor). Maybe that’s why there weren’t any huge upticks in cases where the protests took place.
   35. Ron J Posted: August 10, 2020 at 03:31 PM (#5968873)
#34 The big factor seems to have that relatively few other people were out and about during the big protests.
   36. For the Turnstiles (andeux) Posted: August 10, 2020 at 04:36 PM (#5968884)
The A's have the player (Mike Fiers) who blew the whistle on the Astros cheating.
And after sweeping the series, they have a 5.5 game lead on the Astros.
Meanwhile, Laureano is:
- Their best hitter this year, by far;
- A former member of the Astros organization (as is Grossman, who was also hit twice);
- Kind of a hothead, on an otherwise mostly laid-back team.
In other words, the perfect player for a horsesh*t manager of a horsesh*t franchise to throw at and then bait if they want to try to start a fight and get an opponent suspended. There's just no way it wasn't on purpose.
(Also note that Baker got himself thrown out for arguing balls and strikes the inning before this all went down, so will probably escape any punishment himself.)
   37. Howie Menckel Posted: August 10, 2020 at 05:04 PM (#5968888)
the Fiers angle is definitely worth highlighting. no doubt the Astros are still pissed at him and yes, many other factors also supplement the record.
   38. JRVJ Posted: August 10, 2020 at 06:05 PM (#5968905)
19, "Hijo de Puta". You were missing the middle "de". If you want say it phonetically, go with "Hijueputa".

And "La Puta que te parió" is more South American (like the ever-likeable: "la concha de tu madre").

P.S. If you want some Panamanian swear words, the always liked "Chucha de tu madre" is always a crowd pleaser.
   39. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: August 10, 2020 at 07:54 PM (#5968922)
I suppose this is what passes for sarcasm these days, but the protests were outdoors (a mitigating factor in the spread of COVID-19), most of the protesters were wearing masks (another mitigating factor), and many were social distancing (still another mitigating factor). Maybe that’s why there weren’t any huge upticks in cases where the protests took place.


Aww man, I was hoping no one was gonna take the bait.
   40. Howie Menckel Posted: August 10, 2020 at 07:58 PM (#5968923)
MLB Network ex-players rightly calling out that cowardly Astros coach.

"Mister Tough Guy" who baits the brawl turns into an elderly quarterback behind 5 offensive linemen and a tight end as soon as Laureano starts toward the proverbial line of scrimmage.

his lifelong humiliation from that pathetic clip is a good start toward his punishment, at least.
   41. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 10, 2020 at 09:02 PM (#5968936)
the Fiers angle is definitely worth highlighting. no doubt the Astros are still pissed at him
Shoot the messenger’s co-worker.
   42. depletion Posted: August 10, 2020 at 09:31 PM (#5968942)
I'm surprised no one on the Astros was HBP'ed after the second one on Laureano. At some point in baseball history that would have been kind of automatic. I'm not saying it's good, but a pitch off the legs or butt of an Astro would have been pretty normal. The umps didn't warn the manager after the second one? Oops - I see Baker was already tossed, well warn the backup manager and toss him and the pitcher after HBP number 3.
   43. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 11, 2020 at 02:30 PM (#5969070)

Laureano suspended 5 games. Cintron has been suspended 20 games.
   44. Mayor Blomberg Posted: August 11, 2020 at 02:33 PM (#5969073)
Cintron has been suspended 20 games.

Hope that stands on appeal. Laureano's could go down and I'd not object after he spent the weekend as a pinata.
   45. Ron J Posted: August 11, 2020 at 02:57 PM (#5969079)
Cosign #44. I get the need to make a statement about Laureano's actions, but I wouldn't surprised or disappointed if his suspension was reduced on appeal. I would be slightly surprised if Cintron's was reduced.
   46. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: August 11, 2020 at 03:45 PM (#5969086)
Can Cintron appeal? I always thought managers/coaches couldn't.
   47. Howie Menckel Posted: August 11, 2020 at 04:12 PM (#5969095)
Laureano suspended 5 games. Cintron has been suspended 20 games.

advantage, Astros!

to make this even more ridiculous, I doubt that there is a way for MLB to stop the coach from watching detailed game replays, then contacting players with his suggestions - which, I think, is about all he does anyway, other than stir #### and then cower in fear behind colleagues when he gets called on it.

of course, even if MLB directed the coach not to have any contact with players during the suspension, he and the Astros players would just use "burner phones" they'd receive from the owner anyway.
   48. The Mighty Quintana Posted: August 11, 2020 at 04:18 PM (#5969099)
5 games? So basically that's 15 games in a normal year, seems excessive punishment. Albert Belle only got 5 games for trucking Fernando Vina.
   49. Red Voodooin Posted: August 11, 2020 at 04:58 PM (#5969104)
Free Ramon Laureano!
   50. TJ Posted: August 11, 2020 at 05:00 PM (#5969105)
I would have liked to seen MLB suspend Citron without pay for half of the remaining games for inciting the incident and then suspend him without pay for the other half of the games for being a gutless punk-ass coward once Laureano charged the bench.

And take half of his kids away for the first half of the suspension and the other half away for the second...

   51. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: August 11, 2020 at 05:05 PM (#5969107)
Laureano suspended 5 games

ESPN reporting 6
   52. Howie Menckel Posted: August 11, 2020 at 05:20 PM (#5969110)
And take half of his kids away for the first half of the suspension and the other half away for the second...

or to send a strong message of zero tolerance, take the top half of each kid away for the first half of the suspension and the bottom half away for the second.
   53. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 11, 2020 at 05:42 PM (#5969115)
I would have liked to seen MLB suspend Citron without pay for half of the remaining games for inciting the incident and then suspend him without pay for the other half of the games for being a gutless punk-ass coward once Laureano charged the bench.
I support this, if for no other reason than to hear Rob Manfred say “gutless punk-ass coward.”
   54. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 11, 2020 at 06:43 PM (#5969127)
MLB got it about right. Cintron loses one-third of his salary, assuming coaches get the same pro rata pay as players. That should be a significant deterrent.
   55. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: August 11, 2020 at 07:22 PM (#5969131)
I know that one's ability to hit doesn't necessarily have anything to do with one's ability to teach hitting, but Alex Cintron of the career 80 OPS+ is the hitting coach of the most successful team in baseball? Would not have guessed that.
   56. Bug Selig Posted: August 11, 2020 at 08:04 PM (#5969135)
Alex Cintron of the career 80 OPS+ is the hitting coach of the most successful team in baseball?
This is an exquisite troll right here.

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