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Thursday, June 01, 2023

OMNICHATTER for June 2023

Scoreboards for the Major Leagues and all minor leagues,
courtesy of Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee).

Hombre Brotani Posted: June 01, 2023 at 04:07 PM | 920 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: omnichatter

Reader Comments and Retorts

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501. Howie Menckel Posted: June 15, 2023 at 01:39 AM (#6132957)

Bump Hadley

and Miguel Cabrera HR'd today, now on pace in 2023 for - welp, almost 3.

I think his ranking ends here, but maybe not:

CAREER HOMERS

23. Ernie Banks+ (19) 512
23. Eddie Mathews+ (17) 512
25. Mel Ott+ (22) 511
26. Gary Sheffield (22) 509
27. MIGUEL CABRERA (21, 40) 507

might be reasonable to think that everyone in the top 15 is in the HOF - if you had amnesia:

1. Barry Bonds (22) 762
4. Albert Pujols (22) 703
5. Alex Rodriguez (22) 696
9. Sammy Sosa (18) 609
11. Mark McGwire (16) 583
13. Rafael Palmeiro (20) 569
15. Manny Ramirez (19) 555

below Sheffield and M-Cab, others not in include:

31. Adrián Beltré (21) 477
34. Carlos Delgado (17) 473
37. Jose Canseco (17) 462
37. NELSON CRUZ 462 8
37. Adam Dunn (14) 462
43. Dave Kingman (16) 442
44. Jason Giambi (20) 440
45. Paul Konerko (18) 439
47. Carlos Beltrán (20) 435
48. Juan Gonzalez (17) 434
48. Andruw Jones (17) 434

(Stanton has 384 and Trout has 364)

502. The Duke Posted: June 15, 2023 at 07:33 AM (#6132963)

Oakland's magical run ends. I'm beginning to think they will get overtaken by KC

503. The Duke Posted: June 15, 2023 at 11:40 AM (#6133011)

Saw the following wrigley field scoreboard:

Brooklyn is playing Chicago

In the NL there is only one other game

St.Louis and Pittsburgh with Philadelphia, Cincinnati, New York and Milwaukee with the night off

In the AL there is one game Indians vs Washington. The other six teams, Philadelphia, the Sox, Boston, St, Louis, Detroit and NY, have the night off

What year is it ?

504. salvomania Posted: June 15, 2023 at 01:26 PM (#6133037)

The year is 1953.

Browns moved to Baltimore for '54, and the Braves didn't move to Milwaukee until 1953.

505. shoelesjoe Posted: June 15, 2023 at 04:20 PM (#6133053)

Blue Jays now 7-17 (.292 win %) vs the AL East. 31-15 (.674 win %) against everybody else.

506. salvomania Posted: June 15, 2023 at 04:39 PM (#6133054)

Taj Bradley with 9 Ks through 3 innings for the Rays vs. the A's.

507. Walt Davis Posted: June 15, 2023 at 04:57 PM (#6133059)

The A's finally make an out the old-fashioned way. They do have 2 hits and a walk so it's not historic or anything but 10 Ks through 4. Bradley's on 62 p so a good chance he'll make it through at least 5.

Last out of the 4th was a high pop in pretty much the exact center of the IF. It seemed as if the Rays IFs had never looked into the sun before. I suppose playing half your games in a crappy dome and most of your road games at night, you don't get many opportunities to track a ball in the sun.

508. Walt Davis Posted: June 15, 2023 at 05:17 PM (#6133061)

In one of the more successful jinxes in BBTF history, Taj Bradly does not make it out of the 5th inning, now tied 3-3.

ADDENDUM: Oakland is a good place to be a kid if you like collecting foul balls.

509. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: June 15, 2023 at 10:26 PM (#6133106)

Ho hum, Shohei goes 6IP, 2ER, solid QS and for good measure, clocks a 2 run shot in the top of the 8th to extend the Angels lead to 5-2.

It is insane how good this guy is.

510. Tony S Posted: June 15, 2023 at 10:39 PM (#6133108)

Ryan Pressly has never pitched well when I was watching, and he just threw a gopher ball to Ruiz to break a scoreless tie in the 9th.

511. Tony S Posted: June 15, 2023 at 10:58 PM (#6133109)

Astros tie it up on a Tucker double and a two-out, two-strike Diaz pinch single. On to the Manfred Mann innings.

First Mighty Quinn game for the Nats all year.

512. Walt Davis Posted: June 15, 2023 at 11:05 PM (#6133111)

Cubs show Pirates who's boss (at least this week) again with easy 7-2 win.

Odd factoid today looked at longest Cub consecutive game on-base (hits, walks, etc.) streaks vs. particular teams. Ian Happ has reached base 48 straight games against the Pirates -- not the Cubs record which I think was 50-something by Bill Nicholson vs the Giants.

But it does raise the question of whether any player has beaten DiMaggio's hit streak record against a particular team or in a particular ballpark or in night games or whatever. Obviously not the same thing as Joe's streak (e.g. the Pirates have not been a stellar squad during Happ's career). Is there anybody who has beaten Bonds HR season-record in <162 games against a team? Per a 2015 article, Bonds is the non-Rox Coors leader with just 26 which was even just a 50-HR pace. Obviously it's hard to get 600 PA in an opponents' park, maybe impossible with the new balanced schedule.

513. Walt Davis Posted: June 16, 2023 at 12:02 AM (#6133116)

White Sox don't want to be outdone by the Tigers and Royals so surrender a 4-0 lead at LA. Going to the 7th 4-4.

514. Hombre Brotani

Posted: June 16, 2023 at 04:41 AM (#6133124)

Very delayed, just finished watching the Angels-Texas game. Ohtani absolutely wrecked the Rangers this series. 6 IP, 2 runs, 3 Ks on the mound today to go with 7-12 with 7 walks, a double, 4 homers, 8 RBI, 6 runs scored, and a stolen base. That's a lot of damage in four games.

Ohtani is hitting .433 (26-60) with 5 doubles, a triple, 10 homers, 12 walks, 4 stolen bases in his last 16 games.

515. The Duke Posted: June 16, 2023 at 11:46 AM (#6133155)

Just watched the Semien check swing and subsequent serial ejections. I'd say the multiple ejections were confirmation of a very bad call.

516. Tony S Posted: June 16, 2023 at 03:07 PM (#6133207)

Three home runs by the Cubs in the third. Did Ben McDonald climb out of the broadcast booth and put on Cole Irvin's uniform?

517. The Duke Posted: June 16, 2023 at 03:23 PM (#6133209)

MLB has an article on Kevin Kiermaier. I wonder if he will get some kind of Omar Vizquel treatment for the Hall of Fame. If he could finish with 40+ WAR and maintain elite defense in CF, I could see him getting some support. He's having one of his better offensive seasons and is now at 34 bWAR. Vizquel ended up at 45 but of course he almost got 3000 hits. Kiermaier will be around 1000-1250.

He's really a force in CF

518. Walt Davis Posted: June 16, 2023 at 04:01 PM (#6133216)

Coming late to Cubs-O's (started about 5:30 am here) to find David Ross Rossing ... with a healthy Bellinger, Happ, Suzuki, Morel, Tauchman all on the roster, he figures today is the day to give Patrick Wisdom his first start in LF since April just so he can get Madrigal yet more playing time. (Yes, a lefty starter but so what.) Misplayed a single into a double, no harm done.

519. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 16, 2023 at 04:04 PM (#6133217)

I believe #517 is the first time I’ve seen it suggested that Kiermaier could be a serious HoF candidate. It seems highly unlikely - a 99 OPS+ and all the missed time are huge obstacles. Nice defensive player, but that’s just not enough.

520. Walt Davis Posted: June 16, 2023 at 04:21 PM (#6133220)

Kiermaier ... no of course not. He is indeed an elite defensive CF but just 3 GG and, as you clearly know, he's 33 yo and has <3600 PA and only one qualified season. The comp is Belanger and even he made it to 6600 PA, 8 GG, 1 AS game and even a handful of MVP votes. Vizquel won 11 GG, >12000 PA, almost 2900 hits but only 3 AS games (would have had many more in the NL where he wouldn't have overlapped with so much of ARod, Jeter, Nomar, Tejada careers).

You'd also get the defensive stats debate. fWAR is 10 wins lower than bWAR, statcast gives Kiermaier only about half as many runs saved.

Anyway, there's a reason Kiermaier doesn't win GGs or get named to AS teams or receive full-time play (despite hitting OK for a CF). A lot of that is regular injuries but also because everybody knows he does just one thing incredibly well and that's play defense and that's just not that important. If he somehow manages to hang on long enough to double his career numbers then maybe we can have this conversation again.

521. Walt Davis Posted: June 16, 2023 at 04:24 PM (#6133222)

Cubs blow another game open ... now 9-2 over the O's, b6. Another big day for Morel but mainly just keeping the line moving here in the 6th.

522. Walt Davis Posted: June 16, 2023 at 04:35 PM (#6133227)

Cubs bring on anon reliever Anthony Kay. He's 28, came out of the Jays system. Cubs brought him up 5 days ago (4.50 ERA at AAA with 1 K and half a walk per inning) and have given him an inning in games with 8, 5 and now 7 run leads. Cub booth is going on about how useful it is to break in a "young" reliever with some low-leverage outings, that Ross gets to know him, that if he puts up good innings the Cubs will gain faith in him, etc. As opposed to here's another guy off the AAA shuttle whose job is to eat 10 relief innings over 2 weeks before getting sent down for the next guy.

Huh ... JD just mentioned that this is the 4th straight game the Cubs have batted around.

523. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama

Posted: June 16, 2023 at 05:13 PM (#6133233)

does that make her a second cousin of Darrell, or first cousin once removed?

First cousin, once removed. Basically removed = a different generation.
Second cousins are children of first cousins. Another way to look at nth cousins:
1st cousins share a set of grandparents
2nd cousins share a set of great grandparents
Etc.

My sister recently found out that we are 10th cousins to Elvis.

524. The Duke Posted: June 16, 2023 at 05:46 PM (#6133241)

The thing that stands out to me about Kiermaier is that he's still elite in CF. Most guys are either moved off or about to be moved off as they approach their mid 30s. He's striking me as one of those Vizquel/Nelson Cruz guys that just hangs on doing that one thing well. I agree, he's not close now but he's not far off from starting to get some consideration. Vizquel had an OPS+ of 82 so it's certainly possible people zero in on his incredible skills in CF if he can get into the 40s for WAR

Vizquel got 37% before his other issues. I could definitely see something like that for KK if all goes well

525. Howie Menckel Posted: June 16, 2023 at 08:17 PM (#6133275)

First cousin, once removed. Basically removed = a different generation.
Second cousins are children of first cousins.

wait, now I'm confused.

wait, I think I got it now. so if Darrell Porter had a kid (turns out he had 3), those kids are second cousins to my wife. aha.

526. The Duke Posted: June 16, 2023 at 08:24 PM (#6133277)

Cards have a day off to sort themselves out and they lay another egg. Down 5-1 and we have someone get caught stealing 3B. The team can't do anything right.

We are quickly entering capitulation stage which I hope is a cleaning house - GM and manager.

Our playbook ain't working and we need new thinking

527. JJ1986 Posted: June 16, 2023 at 08:27 PM (#6133278)

Paul Blair got 1.9% on his only ballot. Gary Maddox got 0 votes. Curt Flood got up to 15.1% and he was being given credit for off-the-field considerations. Mike Cameron got 0 votes. Devon White got 0 votes.

528. Howie Menckel Posted: June 16, 2023 at 08:27 PM (#6133279)

to be fair, future HOFer Tylor Megill is on the mound for the Mets.

(hoo boy)

NYY SP Domingo German - is he good?
ER allowed, since start of season:

4 1 1 4 6 1 2 1 0 4 1 1 7

the latter came tonight, in just 2 IP.
you'd think a pitcher who now has a yawn-inducing 4.30 ERA likely gives up 2 or 3 runs sometimes - ok, at least twice?

has only happened once - and that was in only 5 IP.

anyone know what's the next number in that sequence? if so, call Aaron Boone with the info. he'll thank you for it.

529. The Duke Posted: June 16, 2023 at 08:38 PM (#6133284)

527. Vizquel's process I think has opened up hall voters to at least thinking about defense first players. I'm sure the 3000 hits was a big deal but if you read the articles most people talked about his all world defense.

He'll most likely never be elected but I could see him doing pretty well if he can finish off his 30s well.

530. The Duke Posted: June 16, 2023 at 08:38 PM (#6133285)

Ha the cardinals break Vogelbach out of his slump. That says it all

531. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: June 16, 2023 at 08:46 PM (#6133287)

Sox up 13-1 over NY. Houck takes one off the face, hopefully ok, has to be removed.

Apparently German is not as effective without using copious amounts of "resin"

532. The Duke Posted: June 16, 2023 at 08:53 PM (#6133288)

Are there a lot of people who think Luis Robert should have sprinted back to catch Freeman's hit or are they just mad he made no attempt at all to even take a step back?

533. The Duke Posted: June 16, 2023 at 09:19 PM (#6133293)

Cards at least lose efficiently. Two hours an one minute

534. The Duke Posted: June 16, 2023 at 10:08 PM (#6133298)

Aaron judge out longer as he gets a second injection. I've always been amazed at MLB and MLBPAs non-chalance at workplace injuries. There are tons of sharp objects, warning track issues, wall issues and other dangerous traps for players. The tarp issue is always amazing to me. Why don't they draw a white line five feet out from tarp and call that the out of play line so players don't run into it. They could do that with the entire field foul line to foul line to keep players from the wall at the stands

Where is OSHA on these issues ? I couldn't operate a chemical plant with these kind of safety risks, why isn't safety considered at all in the parks

535. Walt Davis Posted: June 17, 2023 at 04:47 AM (#6133310)

Duke -- you are 1000% wrong on Kiermaier. Once again the man has only 3500 PAs. He has never made an AS team. He has never had more than 535 PA in a season, his one season with more than 120 starts. Even this year he has started just 51 of the Jays' 70 games. Now if he hits a historic WS HR or steals 160 bases in a season or something then ... well, he still won't get any votes but maybe the VC will put him in eventually.

Vizquel isn't any kind of trailblazer. Maranville, Aparicio, Concepcion, Ozzie -- "great" defensive SS who last for 15+ years have always gotten HoF consideration. Belanger did not because he had only 6600 PA and couldn't hit a lick. And we can add Steve Finley, 10,000 PAs, 5 GG, 2 AS, a ring and even a scoreless inning pitched .... less than <1% HoF vote.

536. Tom and Shivs couples counselor Posted: June 17, 2023 at 05:10 AM (#6133311)

Cards 16 games below .500

You hate to see it

537. The Duke Posted: June 17, 2023 at 01:41 PM (#6133331)

Jomboy has interesting video up on Aaron Boone coming out to argue with ump using data from his iPad. He gets ejected of course as he always does but if someone came out to argue balls/strikes using statcast I'd toss him every time. I hate all the tech on the bench, I think it should all be banned in-game.

Ump arguements seem to have evolved into words like "I just want you to be better". It seems to generate ejections quickly.

538. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 01:42 PM (#6133332)

527. Vizquel's process I think has opened up hall voters to at least thinking about defense first players. I'm sure the 3000 hits was a big deal but if you read the articles most people talked about his all world defense.

People voting for Vizquel aren't voting for him as a defense first player, they are voting for him in a mistaken belief that he's a modern Ozzie Smith with 3 more seasons. The people not voting for him realize he's a lesser quality fielder, lesser quality bat, lesser quality base runner, lower ranked among his contemporaries and less entertaining.

The voting field is open to a defense first guy who sticks around for a long time, but they have only ever put one in (Mazeroski) and he had a signature moment to help him out. If Andruw can't get in, then Kiermaier has no chance of consideration.

Edit: forgot Aparicio also. (Maranville was a better bat relative to his league than either Mazeroski or Aparicio) but I agree with 535 from Walt.

539. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 01:54 PM (#6133333)

Jomboy has interesting video up on Aaron Boone coming out to argue with ump using data from his iPad. He gets ejected of course as he always does but if someone came out to argue balls/strikes using statcast I'd toss him every time. I hate all the tech on the bench, I think it should all be banned in-game.

Ump arguements seem to have evolved into words like "I just want you to be better". It seems to generate ejections quickly.

I wouldn't mind to see MLB enact a rule that says after 5 ejections in a season, an automatic 3 game suspension, then for every 2 ejections you get from that point on the suspension gets longer by 2 days. 5 ejections 3 days, 7 5 days, 9 7 days etc.

540. Tom and Shivs couples counselor Posted: June 17, 2023 at 01:57 PM (#6133334)

Not the history pro like some here but just going through Vizquel's baseball reference and having a semi-understanding of the hall of fame standard it's legit bizarre that Vizquel had traction with voters at any point.

Writers are so ####### weird sometimes.

541. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 02:13 PM (#6133336)

Not the history pro like some here but just going through Vizquel's baseball reference and having a semi-understanding of the hall of fame standard it's legit bizarre that Vizquel had traction with voters at any point.

When he was about to become eligible, a lot of people on this site thought I was crazy to suggest that Vizquel was going to get traction, when it seemed so obvious to me that he was going to get traction that I thought people were just being blind to not see it. There are a lot of voters who legit believe he was the modern version of Ozzie Smith, and if Ozzie is worthy then it's clear that Vizquel was equally worthy. Of course as I mentioned above, that is a flawed argument because in every aspect of the game, Ozzie was better than Vizquel, and he didn't have the contemporaries who were all world while he played.(Ripken, Larkin and Yount...but not really the same overlap that Vizquel had with his group)

542. Walt Davis Posted: June 17, 2023 at 03:35 PM (#6133348)

Maranville was a better bat relative to his league than either Mazeroski or Aparicio

Huh?

Rabbit 82 OPS+; 11,000+ PA; 31 oWAR
Aparicio 82 OPS+ 11,000+ PA; 42 oWAR (11 wins of baserunning)
Maz 84 OPS+; 8,000+ PA; 20 oWAR
Ozzie 87 OPS+; 10,000+ PA; 49 oWAR (10 wins of baserunning)
Vizquel 82 OPS+; 12,000+ PA; 33 oWAR (average baserunning)
Concepcion 88 OPS+; 9,000+ PA; 33 oWAR

True, for 6 seasons in his prime, Rabbit was a league average hitter; in the other 8000 PAs, he was really, really bad.

The voters have always been kind to top-fielding SS. Now who the voters decide were great fielding SS isn't necessarily a rational process. Concepcion never came close, never had a surge, but he was on the ballot all 15 years. Of course being on the Big Red Machine helped Concepcion, all the stolen bases helped Aparicio; the flips helped Ozzie.

There was no question Vizquel would do pretty well. And given the weakness of the ballots, he had a chance. We can say, correctly IMO, that he wasn't close to Ozzie's equal but (a) 11 GG say he was and (b) Ozzie was an eaasy first ballot guy so it's not like he's a minimum standard.

Anyway, the legit point to make is: now that we quantify defense (well or not) with something other than gold gloves, defense will play a bigger part in future HoF voting. Andruw might yet knock down the door. And if Kiermaier was on track for an 8-9,000 PA career, we might be discussing him. As is, he's Belanger, Dwayne Murphy (6 GG; didn't make the ballot), better hitting version of Gary Pettis (5 GG; didn't make the ballot), Finley, Heyward, Geronimo (made the ballot; kinda everybody did in those years ... Jim Barr?, Terry Crowley, Joe Ferguson)

The Murphy non-ballot annoys me. I think it would have been the 95 ballot. Greg Gross, Manny Trillo, Chris Speier, Mike Krukow made the ballot that year.

543. Walt Davis Posted: June 17, 2023 at 03:37 PM (#6133349)

He'd been cruising along just fine but Cubs leave Justin Steele out there one hitter too long in his first start back off the IL. Rutschman ties it up with one swing, etc. 2-2 Cubs & O's, b5.

544. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 03:39 PM (#6133350)

Huh?

I'm going by rbat beyond just ops+. But I think I looked at his 162 game average while looking at the career for everyone else.... So you are right. Huh? So I have to take it back.

545. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 04:32 PM (#6133359)

Cardinals losing 1-0 after the first Mets batter batted.

546. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 04:35 PM (#6133360)

1st inning Cardinals load the bases which resulted in exactly 0 runs scoring. 2nd inning double by Edman with one out... if I believed in betting, I would wager the inning is going to end with Edman stranded on second.

547. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 04:37 PM (#6133362)

The funny thing is the Cardinals aren't a strikeout team, below average in the NL with k's on offense, but I would not be surprised if they have the highest percentage of strikeouts with runners on base in baseball.

Oops... I was wrong, Cardinals managed to muster 3 runs with a single and homerun. (guess it's a good thing I didn't bet)

548. Walt Davis Posted: June 17, 2023 at 04:40 PM (#6133363)

There are some interesting differences by Rbat ... this one seems extreme

Ozzie 262/337/328, 87 OPS+, -117 Rbat, -7/162
Omar 272/336/352, 82 OPS+, -244 Rbat, -13/162

That's all era. But it's not clear it's skill or performance just the HR-heavy context of Omar's era. Put Omar in Ozzie's era, I'll bet he hits pretty much the same ... or put Ozzie in Omar's era and he puts up pretty much the same slash line. Both guys are average OBP with no power guys. Omar's league context was a 339 OBP; Ozzie's was 328. So Ozzie a bit better than Omar by OBP+. Omar gets killed on SLG+ obviously ... but there's no way Omar could possibly have matched the league's 155 ISO ... but that's true of Ozzie as well. So to me, that's (at best) a value difference, not a quality difference.

Aparicio clocks in at -198 but at least he was well below league average in OBP (311 vs 329); Maranville was -224 with a 318 vs 337 OBP comparison. Omar seems a bit hard done by here, at least he managed a league average OBP.

For completeness, Brooks was also an obviously defense-first HoFer. His bat was fine, at times good, so it wasn't defense-only but without the glove, he's not in. With another 8,000 PAs, we might have this conversation about Ke'Bryan Hayes. (Hmmm... will I still be alive 8,000 PAs from now? I have these thoughts from time to time now.) Pie Traynor probably set that precedent. Without his 30s offensive breakout, Beltre was going to be a very interesting HoF discussion.

549. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 04:46 PM (#6133364)

There are some interesting differences by Rbat ... this one seems extreme

I imagine rbat differences with close ops+ is going to be mostly about average runs scored per game difference. A guy who is 80 ops+ for a 1000 runs per team league is going to have a larger negative rbat than a guy who is 80 ops+ in a 500 runs per team league. (using extreme examples to iterate the point)

edit: assuming same number of plate appearances of course.

550. Walt Davis Posted: June 17, 2023 at 04:50 PM (#6133365)

Huh, I missed it but the O's gave up their DH at some point in this game. Don't worry, no pitchers have actually batted. McCannn got the start at C with Rutschman at DH. O's PH for McCann and Rutschman to C.

Adbert trying to close it out.

551. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 04:51 PM (#6133366)

Damn the Cardinals at least aren't fully sucking this game as Walker just hit his 5th homerun of the season to make it 4-1....another 8 runs and they might have a chance to win this game.

552. JJ1986 Posted: June 17, 2023 at 04:51 PM (#6133367)

Kodai Senga cannot locate his pitches today.

553. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 04:55 PM (#6133369)

Huh, I missed it but the O's gave up their DH at some point in this game.

I know this isn't common, but I do think this has happened more in the past couple of years (percentage to games played) than probably the 20 years previous with just AL only dh. I know the Cardinals have done it at least twice this year. Of course with the relief as they are, it's not surprising except the fact that the teams just don't have enough bench bats.

554. Walt Davis Posted: June 17, 2023 at 05:02 PM (#6133370)

I don't know if anybody has posted this yet but b-r has a set of tables trying to capture the MLB rule changes effects. It's right there on the front page, squirreled away underneath the standings.

Cubs win!

Impressively about 1/3 of games are now under 2.5 hours ... compared with <5% last year or the last several years. The game time table only goes back to 1998 but the 2.37 average time is easily the lowest by about 10 minutes. I got confused by "time between PAs" but realized that's time between the start pf PA #1 and start of PA #2, not between the end of #1 and start of #2. (OK, could be time between end of #1 and end of #2, same diff.) Nothing else on the page looks very exciting but at least it's a sort of "one stop shop" next time we have the discussion.

Anyway 7 of 8 for the Cubs over the Giants, Pirates and O's. Pretty much exactly what they needed to do against the teams they needed to do it against. Finish up with the O's tomorrow, three at Pitt then it's off to London. That's followed by a reasonably tough stretch (by 2023 standards) of Phils, Guardians, Brewers, Yanks, Red Sox.

555. Walt Davis Posted: June 17, 2023 at 05:09 PM (#6133371)

the teams just don't have enough bench bats.

But they do really, at least unless it happens early in the game. With a required 13 position players, that's 4 guys you can pinch-hit with. The O's PH for McCann in the 6th, "double-switched" with Mateo a spot lower (who made the last out) and that spot didn't come around again until the 9th. With the unearned runner bringing extra inning games to a quick halt, they might not have needed another PH.

In fact they were quite aggressive PHing today. The first one for McCann, then they PH'd for the pitcher's spot, then PH'd for Ortiz who was at 2B today. Frazier (who PH'd for the P) would have stayed on to play 2B I assume if it had gone into extras. And the O's should have still had one bench player left. So unless the game went 13 or more, they were covered.

Has a pitcher been a ghost runner yet (not including PR)?

556. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 05:12 PM (#6133372)

I missed Tommy Phams bounceback, I knew he started the year good, then plummeted down to around a 90ops+... didn't realize he had rebounded back to 122.

557. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 05:14 PM (#6133373)

Has a pitcher been a ghost runner yet (not including PR)?

I thought there were rules against that, I guess with the universal dh that rule might have disappeared. But I thought (and it could just be my old man brain imagining things) that the rule was if a pitcher is the ghost runner then the team has the option to go back one more batter.

558. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 05:21 PM (#6133375)

According to this website, even in 2023, the rule

However, if the player in the batting order immediately preceding that half-inning’s leadoff hitter is a pitcher, the runner placed on second base at the start of that half-inning may be the player preceding the pitcher in the batting order.

559. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 05:29 PM (#6133376)

Mets mounting their comeback, 4-3 right now, but the Cardinals refuse to score runs after they have more than a one run lead in a game, so it's just a matter of time before the Mets pass the Cardinals on the scoreboard.

560. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 05:40 PM (#6133378)

Just for fun I looked up the Cardinals splits by innings, and yuck... Roughly speaking they score about 40 runs per full inning, with two major exceptions.... they have scored a total of 17 runs in the fifth inning (this is over 70 games) and 22 runs in the 7th inning. (9th inning doesn't count in this math because of the nature of the inning, but they have scored 26 runs in the ninth)

Good news is their most prolific inning is the 8th inning (in theory it should be the first inning. It's almost always the first inning for every team in baseball throughout history for logical reasons) But this team is messed up of course, 54 runs in the 8th inning, 43 in the first(their second most successful inning)

561. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 06:09 PM (#6133382)

Today in the wild world of omaha, baseball edition, let's take a look at how a real team handles a man on base, Mets up to bat... with one out the Mets hit a double...let's see if they can move him over even if they make an out..... there is the pitch, ground out, runner advances... people in St Louis didn't believe this is a thing that is possible. How does a team advance a runner once they reach a base without hitting a homerun? Cardinal fans are perplexed by this unlikely action.

562. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 06:11 PM (#6133383)

And a four pitch walk to Starling Marte, this isn't asking for trouble in the slightest.

563. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 06:15 PM (#6133384)

Cardinal fans just witnessed a unicorn, the bullpen came in and actually got of of a close call. Usually they allow the runner to score as long as it doesn't affect their era. (and yes I'm exagerrating as their inherited runner percentage is 27% which is in line with historical numbers, and better than pretty much every team in the NL(except Mets and Giants)

edit: funny thing, even though the Cardinals have the third best inherited runners scored percentage in the NL, they actually have the 2nd most inherited runners allowed to score with 36 (Reds have 38) the Phillies have a 39% inherited runners scored and have only allowed 35 runners to score. Cardinals 132 inherited runners is second to the reds 138 with the third place Rockies at 115.

564. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 06:34 PM (#6133386)

Nobody on base so of course DeJong doesn't strike out.

565. Howie Menckel Posted: June 17, 2023 at 06:35 PM (#6133387)

am fascinated by this:

"A St. Louis area native and someone aware of the rich history of the Cardinals' organization, David Freese always felt somewhat uncomfortable being lumped in with the franchise’s other legendary players, even though he did author a playoff performance for the ages in 2011.

Even though fans deemed Freese worthy of a spot among St. Louis greats by electing him to the Cardinals Hall of Fame earlier this year via a fan vote, he said he felt unworthy of such a distinction not long after his appointment. Accordingly, Freese informed the team in recent days that he would be declining his election into the franchise’s Hall of Fame. Freese was set to enter the Cardinals Hall of Fame along with player/coach/instructor Jose Oquendo and former pitcher Max Lanier on Aug. 19, but now only the latter two will be inducted.

“This is something that I have given an extreme amount of thought to, humbly, even before the voting process began,” Freese said in a release."

..................

[I kind of agree with Freese - including his hemming and hawing out of respect for the fan base that voted for him.]

566. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 06:36 PM (#6133388)

Edman couldn't let that go, so he did his best impression of DeJong and hit into a double play.

567. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 06:38 PM (#6133389)

Cardinals have the worst save percentage in the NL with 50%.... let's see which side of the coin lands up.

568. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 06:40 PM (#6133390)

[I kind of agree with Freese - including his hemming and hawing out of respect for the fan base that voted for him.]

I agree, but at the same time, this is how they rotate through the elder players dying off. This is a lesser honor than having the uniform number retired.

edit: double play never happened apparently(challenged), stolen base and single gives the Cardinals a bit of breathing room making it 5-3

569. Howie Menckel Posted: June 17, 2023 at 06:47 PM (#6133391)

Harold Castro makes his second appearance on the mound this season and 9th of his career as Rockies trail 10-2 in the 8th:

Ronald Acuna Jr. singled (line drive to CF).
Ozzie Albies flied out (fly to CF).
Austin Riley singled (ground ball to CF). Ronald Acuna Jr. advanced to 2nd.
Travis d'Arnaud grounded into a double play (ground ball to P). Austin Riley out at 2nd.

...........

now has allowed a respectable 4 ER, 8.6 IP, 10 H, 5 BB.

MLB starts in the field for Castro:
2B 99
1B 58
SS 52
3B 47
CF 36
LF 15
RF 9
DH 9

wait, if you can play 2B-SS-CF - why ever start him anywhere else?

86 career OPS+ and 54 this year, mostly at 2B.

570. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 06:50 PM (#6133392)

The start of the collapse with a hbp to leadoff the bottom of the ninth.

571. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 06:53 PM (#6133393)

Guillorme had a 22 pitch at bat against Hicks in spring training... glad that didn't happen here.

572. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 06:55 PM (#6133394)

Damn, Hicks isn't ####### around here... 3 pitch strikeout to Nimmo, and Marte, game over.

573. The Duke Posted: June 17, 2023 at 07:45 PM (#6133400)

What a funky year for Cardinals. Now David Freese declines to be inducted into team hall of fame, presumably because he does not feel
He is worthy. He's not worthy but the time to tell the team that would have been before they put his name on the ballot

574. The Duke Posted: June 17, 2023 at 07:47 PM (#6133401)

Has anyone ever declined a HOF induction ? I remember Marvin Miller saying he didn't want a posthumous induction

575. The Duke Posted: June 17, 2023 at 07:52 PM (#6133403)

Cubs with 5 in a row and reds with 7 in a row. All four teams converging on .500. Fascinating race.

The Cards are now the crappy team on all their schedules. Pretty funny

576. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 17, 2023 at 07:57 PM (#6133404)

Has anyone ever declined a HOF induction

I think someone in the rock hall of fame did... (Sex Pistols? Dolly Parton declined nomination, Axl Rose)

577. Howie Menckel Posted: June 17, 2023 at 08:00 PM (#6133405)

Freese has a kindred spirit in the great Groucho Marx, who once (maybe) famously said: "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."

578. The Duke Posted: June 17, 2023 at 08:47 PM (#6133431)

I can only hear that in a Groucho Marx voice in my head

579. NaOH Posted: June 17, 2023 at 11:01 PM (#6133469)

I can't imagine what it's like for Freese to look back on his time with the Cardinals, which sounds like it was the peak of his longtime struggles with depression, anxiety, and alcohol.

580. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 17, 2023 at 11:57 PM (#6133472)

[I kind of agree with Freese - including his hemming and hawing out of respect for the fan base that voted for him.]

You agree that he’s unworthy of joining the rarefied elite sphere of…Jose Oquendo?

581. Howie Menckel Posted: June 18, 2023 at 12:21 AM (#6133474)

well, yes, one does wonder if Oquendo took pause at this news

:)

582. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 18, 2023 at 01:25 AM (#6133476)

Just to be fair, Oquendo has 3737 pa with the cardinals, 10 seasons, and Freese has 1755 and 5 seasons, so yes, there is a difference between the rarefied air of Oquendo compared to Freese.

583. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 18, 2023 at 01:39 AM (#6133478)

If it’s quantity rather than quality, then Dal Maxvill would like a word!

584. The Duke Posted: June 18, 2023 at 09:15 AM (#6133485)

Oquendo's case is based as much or more on his coaching skills. For years he's been considered the Uber-coach. He's basically George Kissells heir in promoting the cardinal way. Kissel is also in the Cards Hall. One could argue that Shildt was really Oquendo's heir but they are too close in age for that. I still think they need to find a way to bring Shildt back into the system. Especially now that his approach, as opposed to Mozeliaks, is looking much better.

585. JJ1986 Posted: June 18, 2023 at 12:49 PM (#6133499)

The Braves have played 71 games. Matt Olson has started 71 games at 1B, Ozzie Albies has started 71 games at 2B, Austin Riley has started 71 games at 3B and Ronald Acuna has started 71 games in RF.

586. Tony S Posted: June 18, 2023 at 01:47 PM (#6133502)

Orioles-Cubs is on Peacock today, and I had to futz around a bit to get rid of the closed-caption. Now if I could only do the same with Kremer's ghastly man bun...

587. JJ1986 Posted: June 18, 2023 at 02:10 PM (#6133505)

I am extremely tired of watching Carlos Carrasco pitch.

588. Tony S Posted: June 18, 2023 at 02:13 PM (#6133506)

Lester misplays a two-out pop foul, and two batters later the Cubs pull ahead 3-2 on a Morel homer.

589. Walt Davis Posted: June 18, 2023 at 02:34 PM (#6133509)

Today in the wild world of omaha,

I believe the reference you are looking for is Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom ... maybe they switched to "wild world" towards the end though.

It's been interesting watching Morel this year. Last year he was the adorable terrier, just ecstatic to be there, running everywhere. Great to watch. This year he's a mastiff -- still a joy to watch, still thrilled to be on a baseball field, but destroying baseballs every chance he gets there and the attitude seems more "I belong here."

It's just 118 PAs but 13 HRs and the OPS is still over 1000 despite a 33 PA stretch of 036/182/036. And just 3 Ks in his last 27 PA.

590. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 18, 2023 at 02:34 PM (#6133510)

Rally Killer gets a solo homerun to make it 6-4 Cardinals.

591. Walt Davis Posted: June 18, 2023 at 02:42 PM (#6133511)

In news that interests only me, Grae Kessinger is still in the majors and got his first hit the other day. That pretty much ends my interest in Grae Kessinger.

592. Walt Davis Posted: June 18, 2023 at 02:51 PM (#6133512)

Ross's decision-making continues to confuse me. Taillon has been struggling all year, we're lucky enough for him to give up only 2 through 5 innings, thanks to 3 DPs. So of course we send him out there for the 6th. Despite the first two guys reaching he's in there to give up the tying run himself. Then in comes ... AAA shuttle reliever Anthony Kay? He's on for the 4th time in 6 days since his arrival. He gives up 3 straight hits, one of them thrown out trying to stretch to a double and it's 5-3 O's, still with a man on 3rd and 2 outs. Not that there's anybody out there in the Cubs' pen I'd actually want to see in the 6th inning.

The Cubs at least had enough sense to take advantage of the replay review (O's reqeust) to get a new reliever ready.

593. Walt Davis Posted: June 18, 2023 at 03:01 PM (#6133514)

In a probably bad trade, this year I get to watch the games that are on Peacock but lose the ones on ESPN (because ESPN is available in NZ). I know I can't watch the Apple games through MLBtv but not sure if I need to reactivate my Appletv sub or can watch for free.

Meanwhile, apparently TVNZ is going to start carrying lots of sports for free starting 1 July. The ads show NFL and NBA ... I can't imagine they'll add any MLB but a boy can dream. Anyway, if I can watch some NBA for free, maybe I will start popping up in the NBA thread.

594. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 18, 2023 at 03:06 PM (#6133517)

Jordan Walker with an 11 game hitting streak as he hits a solo homerun to make it 7-5, another 5 or so runs more and the Cardinals might have a chance to win this game.

595. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 18, 2023 at 03:13 PM (#6133518)

Paul DeJong has 11 career homeruns against the Mets, in roughly 123 plate appearances. This is the fourth most he has against any team, with 18 in 320 pa against the Reds, 15 in 313 pa against the Cubs and 13 in 320 pa against the Pirates.

596. cardsfanboy

Posted: June 18, 2023 at 03:16 PM (#6133520)

Pham with a two run shot to tie the game at 7. Shocking I tell you.

597. Walt Davis Posted: June 18, 2023 at 03:19 PM (#6133521)

Is anybody tracking mid-inning pitching changes?

EDIT: oh-oh, it's the unhittable Yannier Cano.

598. Tony S Posted: June 18, 2023 at 03:23 PM (#6133522)

Canó has actually been a bit hittable the last month or so, but he got that out.

599. Walt Davis Posted: June 18, 2023 at 03:35 PM (#6133526)

In a curious move, with 2 outs and men on 1st and 2nd, the Cubs pull a double-steal. Not insane, down 2, put 2 runners in scoring position. Didn't matter as a weak GB to 2B by Hoerner.

Speaking of Pham, Aaron Hicks has hit 304/418/522 since joining the O's. It' just 55 PAs but it pulls his season OPS+ up to 94, right in line with his career 96. Funny how a better team than the Yanks consider Hicks a solid 4th OF option (Mullins is on the IL).

Glancing at the O's b-r page, they've got an "interesting" guy named Ryan McKenna. Nothing special, bench OF, just 78 ineffective PAs. But those 78 PAs have come in 54 appearances (one as a P) and he's not (just) a PH, all of those have been defensive appearances. Obviously teams still use defensive replacements but I didn't know anybody was carrying a defensive replacement specialist. And it's not like he has amazing defensive numbers or anything, doesn't steal bases. More RF than elsewhere but he's got appearances in all three spots, the other O's OFs have decent defensive numbers, it's not a Luzinski-type situation.

600. Tony S Posted: June 18, 2023 at 03:39 PM (#6133527)

The Os get a break as Ruschman's double doesn't bounce into the stands, scoring Hays from 1st. 6-3 Baltimore.

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