BBTF's Newsblog Discussion :: OMNICHATTER for May 2023

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Monday, May 08, 2023

OMNICHATTER for May 2023

A month Chatter will hold ya.

Scoreboards for the Major Leagues and all minor leagues,
courtesy of Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee).

Hombre Brotani Posted: May 08, 2023 at 02:34 AM | 649 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: omnichatter

Reader Comments and Retorts

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401. salvomania Posted: May 22, 2023 at 07:46 PM (#6129607)

if DeJong starts 130 games

I don't think anyone saw DeJong starting 130 games, either

402. Howie Menckel Posted: May 22, 2023 at 08:49 PM (#6129612)

don't know why I haven't seen a "trend" article on this yet, but numerous teams are giving their SPs a longer leash.

it's almost as if they are continuing to give a decent start a 2-hour window, and the games are so much faster that more gets accomplished.

Pirates have a 24-year-old RHP with reasonable promise in Luis Ortiz, making his 7th major league start and coming off a dreary 3-inning outing against the toothless Tigers.

but against the Rangers tonight, through six innings he had scattered just 4 singles and no walks - although a run scored in the 6th to tie it at 1-1.

so he got the 7th as well, and it's 1-2-3.

Pirates get 5 in the bottom 7, all with 2 outs, and it's 6-1 and Ortiz has earned a long shower.

but he'll have to wait. he comes out for the 8th, and walks the first two batters.
at this point, the manager definitely is snoring loudly in the dugout.
double play! so 2nd and 3rd, 2 out.
single makes it 6-2 - and the snoozer has been awakened.
finally, a reliever (who gets a quick whiff to end the inning).

but again, I love this trend.

403. cardsfanboy

Posted: May 22, 2023 at 08:53 PM (#6129614)

Dodgers Muncy is complaining that the Cardinals bullied the umps for favorable calls. I seem to remember him getting a ball three on a clear strike.

404. cardsfanboy

Posted: May 22, 2023 at 08:53 PM (#6129615)

but again, I love this trend.

I would too, if my team joined in on it.

405. cardsfanboy

Posted: May 22, 2023 at 09:01 PM (#6129616)

Gorman with a double against another left handed pitcher, I think he's made the case to give him playing time against lefties.

406. cardsfanboy

Posted: May 22, 2023 at 09:05 PM (#6129617)

DeJong ties it up in the 8th inning with a double to score Gorman, 5-5. I know that the Cardinals are probably a better team than the Reds, but no team in the Central gives the Cardinals as much problem as the Reds, relative to their quality level.

407. Cowboy Popup Posted: May 22, 2023 at 09:17 PM (#6129620)

Freddie Freeman hit the absolute hell out of a Charlie Morton breaking ball.

408. salvomania Posted: May 22, 2023 at 09:38 PM (#6129622)

After walking the bases loaded in the 9th inning of a 5-5 game, Alexis Diaz fans Gorman (after earlier striking out Goldschmidt and Arenado) to escape.

409. cardsfanboy

Posted: May 22, 2023 at 09:38 PM (#6129623)

Cardinals failed to cash in for a run in the ninth, among all the teams the Cardinals play, it feels like we have had the most games with either walk offs or last at bat winning the game with the Reds (at least since they opened their current park) 5-5 going into the bottom of the ninth doesn't make me comfortable at all.

410. cardsfanboy

Posted: May 22, 2023 at 09:54 PM (#6129625)

Extra innings and you can't even advance the ghost runner, this is how visiting teams lose.

411. cardsfanboy

Posted: May 22, 2023 at 09:58 PM (#6129627)

yep...walk off by the Reds, shocked I tell you.

412. NaOH Posted: May 22, 2023 at 10:01 PM (#6129629)

don't know why I haven't seen a "trend" article on this yet, but numerous teams are giving their SPs a longer leash.

Starters are averaging the same 5.2 IP/Start as last season and thus far they're throwing 87 pitches per start vs. 85 last season. Your one example, Luis Ortiz, is now averaging 5.1IP and 84 pitches per start. I'm not certain where the trend is trending.

413. Howie Menckel Posted: May 22, 2023 at 10:18 PM (#6129632)

thanks.

presumably it's mostly just happening in games that have caught my attention - and it mostly was not happening last year in games that caught my attention.

interesting (though arguably, only to me).

414. NaOH Posted: May 22, 2023 at 10:42 PM (#6129637)

I thought it was Tango, based on the early '60s data he got on Dodgers starters, who helped determine that starters (since expansion? earlier?) have largely faced about the same number of batters per start (about 27, I recall it as), but what has changed is the number of pitches per PA.

415. Hombre Brotani

Posted: May 22, 2023 at 11:31 PM (#6129662)

Mickey Moniak with his third close/late hit in the last four games, a homer to break a 1-1 tie in the bottom of the 8th.

He's only 25, and it would be fantastic for the Angels if the former #1 overall pick could turn into a legit big leaguer.

416. The Duke Posted: May 23, 2023 at 12:08 AM (#6129675)

Paul Dejong needs to be dumped right now. This has to be the peak of his sell-high trajectory. There must be a team buying into the resurgence. He's got two one year deals left at reasonable rates. The Cards may be able to get something. I'd like to see them sell him to somebody for a competitive balance pick this year to offset the Contreras pick loss

417. Walt Davis Posted: May 23, 2023 at 12:17 AM (#6129676)

I'm a bit surprised but that looks roughly correct. In 1924, Walter Johnson had 38 starts and no relief appearances and averaged 30.2 BF/start. In 1952, Feller had 30 starts and no relief and averaged 29 BF. In 1971, Fergie averaged a staggering 33 per start. In 1991, Morris averaged 29.5; in 2002, Randy Johnson averaged 29.6; in 2012, Verlander average 29.0; in 2022, Alcantara averaged 27.7 (led the league in BF, assume led in BF/start). Fergie was nuts of course but in 73, Seaver averged 31.9. I think that's the only era when SP usage actually went up.

(No theme to any of that. Stud pitchers of their era, found a season when they made no relief appearances, picked some years, coulda picked other years and gotten slightly different numbers.)

Related ... 3rd time through tOPS+, NL ony cuz I was lazy

1924 100
1952 104
1973 109
1991 106
2002 112
2012 112
2022 114

Trying to nail that down more, it looks like it wasn't really a consistent issue until the mid-60s. Unless hitter greenies were more effective than pitcher greenies, I can't think of any reason that would be unless pitchers by then were throwing more pitches to get into and through the third time. I assume somebody has fully and properly mapped that out over time.

418. base ball chick Posted: May 23, 2023 at 12:25 AM (#6129678)

so tonight astros are playing the crew and its bases loaded 1 out, yordan alvarez up.

so counsel pulls the reliver up there, then for some reason i can NOT understand sends in, not his BEST pitcher, but a lefty. i can tell him that yordan KILLZZZ leftys

[bold]POW[/bold]

grand slam

its like they just simply can NOT bleeve the stats

shrug

419. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: May 23, 2023 at 12:29 AM (#6129680)

Scott Servais and Robbie Ray might have some comments.

420. NaOH Posted: May 23, 2023 at 12:49 AM (#6129684)

Thanks, Walt. And now I found the necessary data on B-Ref. Much of the drop off in batters faced per start has been in the last decade.

1920: 31.5
1930: 30.3
1940: 29.7
1950: 29.3
1960: 27.2
1970: 27.3
1980: 26.9
1990: 25.8
2000: 26.0
2010: 25.5

2013: 25.0
2015: 24.5
2017: 23.6
2019: 22.1
2022: 22.0

No way all of that recent decline in starter usage is because of openers.

421. a brief article regarding 57i66135 Posted: May 23, 2023 at 02:13 PM (#6129769)

On Monday, the Los Angeles Dodgers announced a reversal of their stupid and cowardly decision last week to cave to pressure from right-wing culture warriors and disinvite a venerable charity group from upcoming Pride Night festivities. Citing "thoughtful feedback from our diverse communities," the major-league team apologized to the Los Angeles Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence and announced that they were reinvited to the June 16 event, to "receive the gratitude of our collective communities."
[...]
In the hours after the team's original decision, the Los Angeles LGBT Center and LA Pride announced that in solidarity with the Sisters, they would not participate in the scheduled Pride Night. With these two organizations boycotting and with the Sisters disinvited, the Dodgers were left in the awkward situation of either canceling the event altogether or hosting a gloomy and sparsely attended Pride event tuned to represent the weaponized sensitivities of astroturfing bigots, who under no circumstances would participate in an event intended to celebrate the Los Angeles LGBTQ community

christian bigots: 0
pagan "bigots": won

422. Howie Menckel Posted: May 23, 2023 at 05:39 PM (#6129796)

Cherry Pick Central alert but.....

Steve Gelbs
@SteveGelbs
We talk about sample size in baseball all the time. Well, the sample size is starting to get significant with Francisco Alvarez...as are the results.

Since April 23 (one month ago), Alvarez is hitting .279 w/ a .953 OPS.

That OPS is 20th best in MLB over that span (min. 60 PA).
11:49 AM · May 23, 2023
·
38.5K
Views

...................

if you can ever find a 30-day window with a 21-year-old catcher who has been surprisingly strong defensively while he is mashing, you can feel pretty good about it.

the first MLB 2024 every-day infield is now set:
C Alvarez
1B Alonso
2B McNeil
3B Baty
SS Lindor

(Mauricio is angling to grab 2B, which would make McNeil a partner w Nimmo in the OF. There will be a corner OF slot available if the mid-30s trio of SMarte, Canha, and Pham indeed are toast.)

423. bestergonomicgamingchair.com Posted: May 23, 2023 at 06:51 PM (#6129804)

6 days / 5 games of Yankees broadcasts:

Sunday: Peacock

Tuesday: YES / MLB.tv
Wednesday: Amazon Prime
Thursday: YES / MLB.tv
Friday: Apple+

Thanks a whole bunch, Rob Manfredjinsinjin

424. cardsfanboy

Posted: May 23, 2023 at 07:11 PM (#6129812)

Cardinals score, the next at bat the Reds score, seems like it's a repetitive refrain this season. Still 3-1 lead right now for the Cardinals in just the second inning. Was looking at some stats, the Cardinals lead the Nl in ops+ but fourth in runs per game, need to fix that problem.

425. cardsfanboy

Posted: May 23, 2023 at 07:21 PM (#6129816)

Goldy who has been struggling offensively for the past few games has now hit two homeruns.

426. cardsfanboy

Posted: May 23, 2023 at 07:25 PM (#6129818)

I didn't see it, but Arenado and Marmol have now been ejected.

427. Howie Menckel Posted: May 23, 2023 at 07:41 PM (#6129820)

The Mets won five consecutive games by one run in each game about 40 years ago.

This is now the second time it has happened - so tonight, the Mets can make franchise history!

8-7
3-2
10-9
5-4
2-1
and tonight?

428. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: May 23, 2023 at 09:10 PM (#6129828)

Holy smokes, Jays with 27 hits and 20 runs against the Rays.

429. cardsfanboy

Posted: May 23, 2023 at 09:16 PM (#6129830)

That's a winner, but not without making it interesting, loading the bases in the bottom of the 9th in an 8-5 game, with noted Cardinal Killer Jonathan India coming up.

430. TomH Posted: May 23, 2023 at 09:20 PM (#6129831)

TRIVIA TIME

Name, in order, the 5 pitchers with the highest number of [strikeouts minus walks] in their careers.

Answers provided tomorrow morning.

Example: Steve Carlton is 10th with 2303; 4136 KOs minus 1833 BBs.

431. The Duke Posted: May 23, 2023 at 09:22 PM (#6129832)

Cards blow out their closer to get Waino 197. I didn't think there was any chance he could do it this year but with the team scoring 9 runs a game all he has to do is throw 5, give up 3-5 runs, hope for a lead as he leaves, and hold on for dear life

432. The Duke Posted: May 23, 2023 at 09:24 PM (#6129833)

Waino could be the answer to the trivia question "who was the last major league pitcher to win 200 games ?"

433. The Duke Posted: May 23, 2023 at 09:29 PM (#6129835)

Greg maddux
Randy Johnson
Bob Gibson
Pedro martinez
Walter Johnson

434. cardsfanboy

Posted: May 23, 2023 at 09:29 PM (#6129836)

Name, in order, the 5 pitchers with the highest number of [strikeouts minus walks] in their careers.

If I had to guess names, they probably go Randy, Pedro, Maddux, Kershaw and maybe Glavine? (probably got zero right) (oops probably Schilling makes that list)

435. Howie Menckel Posted: May 23, 2023 at 09:45 PM (#6129837)

Yankees "tattoo" Orioles RP Yennier Cano for two singles and a double in his 2 (scoreless) IP tonight.

that balloons his season hits allowed total to - okay, 10 - in 25.6 IP.

ERA goes from 0.38 to 0.35.
WHIP was 0.30 but now is more like his ERA, lol

28 K in those 25.6 IP, so he's not Bugs Bunny or anything....

...............

Rays OF-1B Luke Raley gets 5 outs with only 1 run allowed in garbage time tonight, just needs one more out in the 9th. then

single
single
single
single
grand slam (Vlad Jr., who Raley had whiffed the first time/ #secondtimethrutheorder)
single
homer
Bethancourt in for Raley
double
single
line out

the final is 20-1

436. Hombre Brotani

Posted: May 23, 2023 at 09:50 PM (#6129838)

Mickey Moniak with his third lead-off homer in 8 starts! .448/.467/1.000 to start his season is pretty good.

437. Tony S Posted: May 23, 2023 at 09:54 PM (#6129839)

And Bautista serves one up on a platter to Judge on an 0-2 count as the Yankees tie it 5-5.

No further damage. We go to penalty kicks.

438. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: May 23, 2023 at 10:04 PM (#6129843)

Morel goes deep again, now 9 in 12 games. And the Cubs might actually take advantage this time, with a 7-2 lead through 7.

439. The Duke Posted: May 23, 2023 at 10:26 PM (#6129846)

There were two major financing deals going down to the Memorial Day wire: a government default and the Vegas As stadium deal. One of them is done. A's got their pot of money at the end of the gambling rainbow tonight

440. Walt Davis Posted: May 23, 2023 at 10:53 PM (#6129853)

Clemens is probably #1 I would guess. Boatload of walks or not, Ryan's probably top 5. Maddux, Unit, and yeah let's go with Big Train.

441. Walt Davis Posted: May 23, 2023 at 11:00 PM (#6129855)

K-BB is generally about lots of Ks more than control per se. Clemens had excellent control (or at least didn't walk many).

Spoiler alert: Gibson not close; neither is Fergie; Walter Johnson is behind Carlton; Maddux not far ahead but not sure whre he ranks. Clemens is not #1.

442. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: May 23, 2023 at 11:08 PM (#6129856)

5 pitchers with the highest number of [strikeouts minus walks] in their careers.

Schilling must be in the top 5, he didn't walk a whole lot of guys.

443. cardsfanboy

Posted: May 23, 2023 at 11:30 PM (#6129859)

The Rangers have the best run differential in baseball right now after the Rays got destroyed today.

444. Walt Davis Posted: May 23, 2023 at 11:34 PM (#6129860)

It gets close around #4 through #7 and I'm not sure I've checked everybody so I will wait. I will say there are at least two guys who deserve mentioning that haven't been mentioned yet I don't think.

445. Hombre Brotani

Posted: May 23, 2023 at 11:34 PM (#6129861)

Mike Trout just hit a 2-run shot, the 361st homer of his career, tying him with Joe DiMaggio on the career leaderboard. Up next:

Lance Berkman, 366
Todd Helton, Ralph Kiner, 369
Gil Hodges, 370

446. Howie Menckel Posted: May 23, 2023 at 11:47 PM (#6129863)

yes, the top of the "under 400 HR club" is a large one - this is where so many players run out of steam (who are not Mike Trout).

58. Andres Galarraga (19) 399
58. Al Kaline+ (22) 399
60. Dale Murphy (18) 398
61. Joe Carter (16) 396
62. Jim Edmonds (17) 393
63. Graig Nettles (22) 390
64. Johnny Bench+ (17) 389
65. Aramis Ramirez (18) 386
66. Dwight Evans (20) 385
67. Harold Baines+ (22) 384
68. Larry Walker+ (17) 383
69. Frank Howard (16) 382
69. Ryan Howard (13) 382
69. Jim Rice+ (16) 382
69. GIANCARLO STANTON (14, 33) 382
73. Albert Belle (12) 381
74. Orlando Cepeda+ (17) 379
74. Tony Perez+ (23) 379
76. Matt Williams (17) 378
77. Norm Cash (17) 377
77. Jeff Kent (17) 377
79. Carlton Fisk+ (24) 376
80. Rocky Colavito (14) 374
81. Gil Hodges+ (18) 370
82. Todd Helton (17) 369
82. Ralph Kiner+ (10) 369
84. Lance Berkman (15) 366
85. Joe DiMaggio+ (13) 361
85. MIKE TROUT (13, 31) 361

28 players aside from Trout in that grouping - and 11 are in the HOF.

ACTIVE HR LEADERS (with top 100 rank)
1./27. Miguel Cabrera (21, 40) 507
2./37. Nelson Cruz (19, 42) 462
3./69. Giancarlo Stanton (14, 33)
4./85. Mike Trout (13, 31) 361
5. Joey Votto (16, 39) 342 (needs 2 to reach top 100)
6. Evan Longoria (16, 37) 336 (needs 8 to reach top 100)
7. Paul Goldschmidt (13, 35) 322 (needs 22 to reach top 100)
8. Nolan Arenado (11, 32) 308
9. Freddie Freeman (14, 33) 301
10. Andrew McCutchen (15, 36) 294
10. Anthony Rizzo (13, 33) 294

...............

23. Ernie Banks+ (19) 512
23. Eddie Mathews+ (17) 512
25. Mel Ott+ (22) 511
26. Gary Sheffield (22) 509
27. MIGUEL CABRERA (21, 40) 507 (5 last year, none this year)

................

32. Stan Musial+ (22) 475
32. Willie Stargell+ (21) 475
34. Carlos Delgado (17) 473
35. Chipper Jones+ (19) 468
36. Dave Winfield+ (22) 465
37. Jose Canseco (17) 462
37. NELSON CRUZ (19, 42) 462 (10 last year, 3 this year)
37. Adam Dunn (14) 462

447. Walt Davis Posted: May 24, 2023 at 12:22 AM (#6129868)

Many years ago, sombody here was a big fan of K-BB and did eventually convince me it is more important than K/BB. (But K/BB is still right there on b-r so let's stick with that.) The main issue comes down to more walks (for the high K-BB guy) vs a lot more contact (for the K/BB guy). Which just got me wondering, what's the average value of a contact PA.

Somebody check my q&d math (roughly based on simple Xruns) but for 2023 I've come up with about 0.21 runs per contact. Now before we get too excited and say "see, just make more contact!", for 1983 I get a value of about 0.18 per contact. So 6 new contacts about as valuable as 7 old contacts which also works out to about the difference between 15% K/PA and 23% K/PA rates. We also obviously get to pretty much the same spot by noticing that the 1983 AL (to keep pitcher batting out of it) averaged 4.48 R/G while 2023 MLB so far is at 4.57.

Anyway, although I frequently look at BA and SLG on-contact, how it varies across players and eras, I hadn't thought about avg runs per contact. It will have taken quite a jump in the 93-95 era and, if we mapped it against K-rates, we'd see they didn't really keep up. That led to an increase in scoring as hitters traded contact for power. Eventually the pitchers adapted and Ks started rising to bring overall scoring roughly back in line and, since then, it's been a battle to maintain "balance." I'd love to see somebody do that properly over the last 50 years or so.

Anyway, in terms of K-BB, we might imagine two modern pitchers. A has 1800 Ks and 600 BB in 2500 career innings; B has 2500 Ks and 1000 BB in 2500 innings.

A 3/1 K/BB, 1200 K - BB
B 2.5 K/BB, 1500 K - BB

In terms of runs, it's 400 more BB for B vs 1100 more contacts for A (assuming equal BF and on-contact numbers). 400 extra walks is about 120-130 runs but 1100 more contacts is about 220-230 runs. That's about 0.36 R/9 in favor of B or about 10 WAR over 16 seasons. If the high-K guy also generates weaker contact, the gap would be bigger.

448. Walt Davis Posted: May 24, 2023 at 12:36 AM (#6129871)

28 players aside from Trout in that grouping - and 11 are in the HOF.

Surely Helton soon to make it 12. Uncle Walt's persoal HoF:

Kaline -- yes
Bench -- double yes
Baines -- not even with a ticket
Walker -- yes
Rice -- no
Cepeda -- no
Perez -- no (a personal fave but still no)
Fisk -- yes
Hodges -- no
Kiner -- tough call
DiMaggio -- oh, OK

Of those eligible but not in, I give Evans serious consideration; I'd put Belle ahead of several of the guys who are in; I really want to say no on Helton but whenever I try to make the case, I lean towards putting him in. (I really wish Coors was a more normal park.) Anyway, it seems to me it's a group that's a great test for where your border is and whether you are big/small HoF. When I figure I would toss out most of the VC selections too, I am apparently very much small Hall.

There's something "right" about Canseco, Cruz and Dunn all tied on 462.

449. TomH Posted: May 24, 2023 at 05:03 AM (#6129872)

PITCHER ..... KO-BB .KO KOrank BB BBrank IP
Randy Johnson 3378 4875 --2- 1497 -13- 4135
Roger Clemens 3092 4672 --3- 1580 -9-- 4916
Nolan Ryan..... 2919 5714 --1- 2795 -1-- 5386
Max Scherzer.. 2510 3224 -12- 0714 n/a- 2715
Curt Schilling.. 2405 3116 -17- 0711 n/a- 3261

Big Unit is first, and not that close. The top 3 in KOs are also the top 3 on this list. Next are Pedro, Blyleven, Maddux, Verlander. Active guys weren't on our radar, were they, even with all of the KOs today.

450. TomH Posted: May 24, 2023 at 05:16 AM (#6129873)

Max Muncy is "on pace" to hit 49 home runs.
And 49 singles.

451. The Duke Posted: May 24, 2023 at 08:55 AM (#6129883)

Goldschmidt is still in the hunt for a back to back MVP award. I was surprised that there were 13 back to back awards with Barry Bonds doing it twice (once with Pirates and then four years in a row with the Giants )

Two have not come to a vote for the Hall of Fame yet. One is a pitcher ! Two will likely never make the Hall of Fame despite back to back MVP awards.

Can you name the twelve other guys who have done it ?

452. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: May 24, 2023 at 08:59 AM (#6129885)

Just read an article on The Athletic from a week ago about the dire state of Cleveland catching.

Mike Zunino in May: 2-36 with 23 K's and a .220 OPS. OPS+ of 72 for the year.
Backup Cam Gallagher: batting .100 for the season

amazingly, they are better than Miami's catchers, Nick Fortes and Jacob Stallings, who are batting a combined .181 for the year.

I feel bad slagging on these guys, but ugh.

453. salvomania Posted: May 24, 2023 at 11:56 AM (#6129905)

Can you name the twelve other guys who have done it ?

Pretty sure Hal Newhouser won back-to-backs.
Maris won back-to-backs.
So did Dale Murphy.
And Joe Morgan.
Mickey Mantle?
I know Berra won three---were any back-to-back?
Hank Aaron in '57-'58?
Has Trout won two? (I know my old baseball history better than the recent!)
Did Miggy go back to back?

454. The Duke Posted: May 24, 2023 at 12:09 PM (#6129909)

Excellent guesses on Berra, Newhouser, Maris, Murphy, Morgan, Mantle and Miggy. Trout won in 2014, 16 and 19. Aaron won in 1957

455. Froot Loops Posted: May 24, 2023 at 12:20 PM (#6129910)

Ernie Banks, 1958-59.

Mike Schmidt, 1980-81.

456. The Duke Posted: May 24, 2023 at 12:45 PM (#6129915)

Two more: only three left. One easy, one hard and one where you go, duh.

457. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 24, 2023 at 12:47 PM (#6129916)

Among 1st baseman, Jimmy Foxx & Frank Thomas, and in the how quickly we forget category, Albert Pujols.

458. salvomania Posted: May 24, 2023 at 12:48 PM (#6129917)

I feel like I can get any remaining old ones if I think hard enough.

459. salvomania Posted: May 24, 2023 at 12:50 PM (#6129918)

DOH! Beaten to the punch!

Cardinal fan that I am, still don't know that I remembered Albert winning back to back. I remember him being second to Barry Bonds more than once (I think), and then losing out to Ryan Howard.

I knew a late '50s NL player won back-to-back, and I was thinking Aaron instead of Banks.

460. salvomania Posted: May 24, 2023 at 12:55 PM (#6129919)

In Albert's first 10 seasons, he won MVP three times, finished second 4 times (twice to Bonds), and finished 3rd once and 4th once (his rookie year).

The only time in his first 10 years he finished outside the top 4 was in 2007, when he finished 9th despite leading all NL players in WAR with 8.7.

In his final year with the Cardinals (pre-Angels), in 2011, he finished 5th.

461. Froot Loops Posted: May 24, 2023 at 02:00 PM (#6129925)

Here's a trivia question I don't know the answer to: Who has the most Top Ten MVP seasons without ever winning the award? It might be Derek Jeter with eight, although that's a little cheap because in three of those seasons, he finished exactly tenth. Nolan Arenado already has six.

462. salvomania Posted: May 24, 2023 at 02:27 PM (#6129933)

David Ortiz had seven.

463. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 24, 2023 at 02:34 PM (#6129934)

To circle back to #451 for a moment, Goldschmidt isn’t the only 2022 MVP with a chance to repeat. Since coming off the IL, Aaron Judge is hitting .367/.484/.918, good for a 1.402 OPS. Still more than two-thirds of the season left to go, so plenty of time for the favorites to emerge.

464. cardsfanboy

Posted: May 24, 2023 at 03:16 PM (#6129939)

Here's a trivia question I don't know the answer to: Who has the most Top Ten MVP seasons without ever winning the award? It might be Derek Jeter with eight, although that's a little cheap because in three of those seasons, he finished exactly tenth. Nolan Arenado already has six.

Al Kaline has 9, he's the most I've been able to find. Murray only 8th, Piazza 7, Manny 9 also.

465. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: May 24, 2023 at 03:42 PM (#6129940)

My first thought was a guy like Raffy Palmeiro who had a long career, but not a superstar. Makes sense that Murray has so many.

Take-home message is that it's hard to finish top-10 in MVP! Palmeiro only did it three times, Roberto Alomar only 5. Puckett and Tony Gwynn, 7 times each.

466. salvomania Posted: May 24, 2023 at 03:49 PM (#6129942)

Take-home message is that it's hard to finish top-10 in MVP!

Rolen only did it once---and somehow he made it into the HoF!

467. Walt Davis Posted: May 24, 2023 at 04:58 PM (#6129953)

Big Unit is first, and not that close.

Yeah, I was really surprised to see he had fewer walks than Clemens. Obviously he had great control when he became a great pitcher but I thought those 150-walk seasons would be too much. From 24-28, Johnson's K-BB was just 299. Over the next 8 years, it was 1650.

I remembered Clemens because, for a long time, Fergie's claim to fame was the only guy with 3,000+ Ks and <1,000 BBs. But that was always based on career totals and I noticed that Clemens was also under 1,000 at the time of his 3,000th K. Johnson wasn't but he wasn't much over and then he finished off his career with 1835 Ks vs just 408 BB. He was pretty good.

468. Walt Davis Posted: May 24, 2023 at 05:14 PM (#6129954)

I'll guess Tony Perez had a lot of top 10 MVPs. It's the "without winning one" that makes it tough of course (Willie had 10 in addition to his two wins). Billy Williams probably did it a fair bit but I wouldn't think record-setting. Edgar maybe. Did Winfield ever win one?

How'd I do? Not well

Perez 4 + 3 outside the top 10
Billy 3 + 5
Edgar 2 + 3
Winfield 6 + an 11th and a 12th

I hadn't really thought about "outside top 10" vs top 10, was just thinking "this guy was good year after year for a long time." Billy had two MVP-worthy years but nobody was beating Bench in 1970 or 72 (actually the 72 vote was fairly close).

Duke Snider had 6 top 10s in 7 seasons. Thome had >600 HRs, 1699 RBI, only 4 top 10.

EDIT: Sheff and Beltre made it to 6.

469. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: May 24, 2023 at 05:31 PM (#6129956)

Big Unit is first, and not that close.

Yeah, I was really surprised to see he had fewer walks than Clemens.

I was too - until I realized he pitched almost 800 fewer innings. Unit's walk rate is higher than Roger's (3.3 to 2.9), it's just that his K rate has a much bigger margin (10.6-8.6). He led either his league or the majors in K's 10 times (either/or phrasing due to an interleague trade in '98, when his full-season total led MLB).

470. Walt Davis Posted: May 24, 2023 at 05:42 PM (#6129957)

In K-BB, if he can get enough innings, Cole will crack that top 5. He's already at 1554, on pace for 2300+ when he gets to 3000 Ks. (He had his 2000th the other day, did we notice?)

Kershaw of course is in this class, currently at 2243. Even with limited innings, he's been addiing over 100 a year so could pass Schilling sometime in 2024-25. DeGrom seems unlikely to get enough innings. The modern K guys just don't walk many -- 6 of the top 10 career K/BB are active pitchers (and let's not forget the immortal Josh Tomlin). The darkhorse candidate is Aaron Nola who's at nearly 1100 in <1300 innings and still only 30. But obviously nobody's touching Johnson.

471. Walt Davis Posted: May 24, 2023 at 06:03 PM (#6129966)

Unit's walk rate is higher than Roger's (3.3 to 2.9)

This too is Johnson's "early" years. From 24-30, he walked 5/9; from 31 on, it was 2.5/9.

From 31 on:

RJ 2890 IP, 222-104, 147 ERA+, 3545/807, 4.4 K/BB, 2738 K-BB
RC 2694 IP, 191-98, 140 ERA+, 2639/961, 2.75 K/BB, 1678 K-BB

Clemens of course is wayyy out in front for pre-31.

All this suggests that (K-BB)/9 ... aka K/9 - BB/9 ... is an excellent measure of dominance. Some obvious candidates

Strider 10.9 (<200 IP)
deGrom 9.0
Sale 9.0
Burnes 8.8
Scherzer 8.3
Cole 8.2
Kershaw 7.6
Nola 7.6
Pedro 7.6
Unit 7.3
Verlander 6.6
Schilling 6.6
Clemens 5.7
Alcantara 5.3
Ryan 4.8
Seaver 4.2 :-)

One of those bolded would seem not to be like the others.

472. The Duke Posted: May 24, 2023 at 06:18 PM (#6129968)

463. Excellent point. It's possible we could have both leagues have back to back winners. It's not likely but it's probably a 10% chance right now .

473. The Duke Posted: May 24, 2023 at 06:20 PM (#6129969)

So will Cole get to 200 wins? I looked at all the active pitchers and after Wainwright he seems like the only possibility. He's nine years younger than Waino (ok, that's not really fair). He's 32 and needs 60 wins. 50-50 chance ?

474. The Duke Posted: May 24, 2023 at 06:25 PM (#6129970)

Angels going for win 28. It was a mountain for this team last year

475. cardsfanboy

Posted: May 24, 2023 at 06:58 PM (#6129978)

So will Cole get to 200 wins? I looked at all the active pitchers and after Wainwright he seems like the only possibility. He's nine years younger than Waino (ok, that's not really fair). He's 32 and needs 60 wins. 50-50 chance ?

It depends on how Cueto responds to his injury. But generally speaking most starters who do reach 300 wins get the majority of the wins post 30 age, I don't doubt that trend will continue going forward, just changing 300 maybe to 250(or even less) We just don't have enough young pitchers who have proven themselves yet. I used to think Lance Lynn was going to be a 200+ win pitcher but he's slowed down tremendously, same with Wacha, guys who started their careers with 15 win seasons type of thing while playing on good offensive teams.

I don't think 200 is going to be a particularly difficult number to be honest, even with openers, teams are letting their ace pitchers pitch.

476. cardsfanboy

Posted: May 24, 2023 at 07:01 PM (#6129980)

Reds taking a first inning lead, Mercado with another error(misplay) his defense was supposed to be better than this.

Edit: make that 4-0.

477. Howie Menckel Posted: May 24, 2023 at 07:41 PM (#6129987)

one-hit wonders
not sure why mlb.com is reprising a 2019 article, but it's a great one that might even deserve its own thread:

interviews with 5 of the 6 then-living players whose career MLB record is one hit in one plate appearance.

there was a news show - maybe Sunday morning? - that many years ago came up with this idea that you could pick a random name out of the phone book, and there will be a good story there every time.

newspapers used to do this, and some inexperienced reporters hated the idea.
of course, if that's your attitude, that may show in the interview and you'll never get to "the good stuff."
not everybody's life story is scintillating, but there's always something there. at worst, there's a close family member whose life saga is remarkable.

well, these 5 fit the bill.

one is a 1970 Cub - the wonderfully named Roe Skidmore (yes, really).

Skidmore was a September 1969 callup, but never got into a game:

"I had a really good view watching the Cubs go down the drain,” he says of that infamous ’69 slide, remembered most for a black cat that crossed the Cubs’ path during a pivotal doubleheader sweep at the hands of the Mets on Friday the 13th. “If you pull up the black cat incident, look right in the middle of the guys sitting in the dugout, I was right there. That’s my claim to fame … other than the hit.”

of his 1970 at-bat:

“[Jerry Reuss] threw me a breaking ball,” the now-73-year-old [77] Skidmore recalls, “and I hit a line drive right on the nose to left field. It went over Joe Torre’s head, Lou Brock fielded the ball, and he threw to Dal Maxvill at second base. When you only do it once, you remember all the faces involved.”

478. cardsfanboy

Posted: May 24, 2023 at 08:06 PM (#6129992)

This game is starting to look like one of those games where the Cardinals go down without a fight, 6-2 Reds, and both of the Cardinal runs were solo homeruns.

479. TomH Posted: May 24, 2023 at 08:44 PM (#6129997)

In 2007, the Tampa Bay (Devil) Rays won 66 games, which was about their going rate. They allowed 167 MORE run than the AL average team. Then the turnaround came in 2008 when they were the AL champs.

Since 2008, we have had 15 MLB seasons. The Rays have allowed FEWER runs than average every single year. Now 15 yrs running, and of course it will be 16 come October. Yes, they have a decent pitcher's park, so one could say that "park-adjusted" they probably were worse than average in 2016. But it is still a remarkable run.

From 2011 to 2019, their offense was below average every season. And they won 85 games a year in that span!

480. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: May 24, 2023 at 09:34 PM (#6130002)

Stroman is through 7 in only 69 pitches; gave up a 2-run HR in the second but apart from that has done quite well. Given the shaky bullpen lately, I'd love to see him at least start the 8th and get a shot at a CG (which would double the total number of non-shutout complete games in the NL so far this year).

481. Walt Davis Posted: May 24, 2023 at 09:39 PM (#6130005)

Your first wish has been granted (as you probably know). The 8th not off to a great start though.

482. Walt Davis Posted: May 24, 2023 at 09:45 PM (#6130006)

Woohoo! Out of it with a DP. Still 4-2 Cubs, b 8.

EDIT: An important lesson for all you young ballplayers out there, especiallly any Cs -- try not to hit GBs right at the SS with a runner on first and less than 2 outs. That was like the $10,000, custom-tailored double-play ball right there.

483. cardsfanboy

Posted: May 24, 2023 at 09:48 PM (#6130007)

not pretty, hoping that the Cardinals can rebound to get the hopeful split for the series, 10-3 Reds this game.

484. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: May 24, 2023 at 10:18 PM (#6130008)

Your first wish has been granted (as you probably know). The 8th not off to a great start though.

Can't complain about the outcome - let him work through a shaky 8th, put a reliever in for the top of the order in the 9th to nail it down. Cubs clinch their first series win since... looks like Miami from May 5-7.

485. Hombre Brotani

Posted: May 24, 2023 at 10:48 PM (#6130015)

Mike Trout with career home #362, breaking his tie with Joe DiMaggio.

486. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: May 24, 2023 at 10:53 PM (#6130016)

Dynamic pitching duo of Paxton/Pivetta not fooling anyone. Both of the Angels dynamic duo have gone yard, Trout with the very frequent gameday blurb of "Mike Trout homers on a fly ball to left center field"

Halos up 7-1 over the slumping, returning to true .500 form Red Sox.

487. Hombre Brotani

Posted: May 24, 2023 at 11:12 PM (#6130018)

Halos up 7-1 over the slumping, returning to true .500 form Red Sox.

Angels starting pitchers have given up just 1 run in 18 innings in the series against Boston.

*chef's kiss*

488. Walt Davis Posted: May 24, 2023 at 11:52 PM (#6130022)

That was like the $10,000, custom-tailored double-play ball right there.

Looks like I underestimated the quality of that tailoring. Figure Stroman gets $25 M for about 500 outs and that's about $50,000 per out -- nice work if you can get it -- so make that a $100,000 DP grounder. I don't think the tailor sees much of that though.

489. Walt Davis Posted: May 25, 2023 at 12:11 AM (#6130025)

I'm never sure whether to laugh or cry at these numbers but, Stroman's approximate pay rate:

$800,000 per start
$145,000 per inning pitched
$50,000 per out
$33,333 per batter faced
$8,750 per pitch

By the Bill Gates index, looks like Stroman thinks it's worth about $25 every time he bends down to grab the rosin bag.

With the pitch clock, Stroman's hourly rate has gone through the roof.

490. cardsfanboy

Posted: May 25, 2023 at 01:52 PM (#6130078)

0 to 0 in the bottom of the 6, but the Reds are now rallying with back to back hits to start the inning.

491. cardsfanboy

Posted: May 25, 2023 at 01:59 PM (#6130080)

Good to see that the Cardinals are not the only team who can have first and third and no outs and fail to score.

492. cardsfanboy

Posted: May 25, 2023 at 02:11 PM (#6130084)

Hard to believe that the Cardinals are having a hard time scoring runs with a lineup that doesn't include Goldy, Arenado or Contreras.

493. cardsfanboy

Posted: May 25, 2023 at 02:26 PM (#6130088)

Cardinals score in the 8th off of a Nolan Gorman double, hopefully the pen can keep the Reds at bay for two innings.

494. cardsfanboy

Posted: May 25, 2023 at 03:07 PM (#6130092)

Tough win, 2-1 for the Cardinals, Reds did have the tying run on base in the ninth.

495. Walt Davis Posted: May 25, 2023 at 03:58 PM (#6130100)

Just because it's 8am and there's baseball on, I'm watching Marlins--Rox. Now ... from today's starting lineup, including one SP, guess which players are on the Marlins and which on the Rox

Fortes
Tovar
Berti
E Diaz
Edwards
Toglia
de la Cruz
Trejo
Garrett
J Davis
Doyle
Wynns

496. Froot Loops Posted: May 25, 2023 at 04:11 PM (#6130103)

Tovar is a 21-year-old shortstop who hit .318/.386/.546 at AA last year. He's off to a fairly slow start (.220/.258/.359), but he has possession of the job, and he has a chance to be a star.

Of course, that doesn't answer the question of which team he plays for.

497. salvomania Posted: May 25, 2023 at 04:48 PM (#6130107)

Marlins:
Berti
de la Cruz
Garrett

Rockies:
Tovar
E Diaz
Doyle
Wynns

The other 5 (Fortes, Edwards, Toglia, Trejo and Davis) I'm not sure of... I'll bet 3 are Rockies, 2 are Marlins.

EDIT: OK, checked Gameday, and Fortes, Edwards and Davis are Marlins, Trejo and Toglia are Rox. Ask me again in a week.

498. Froot Loops Posted: May 25, 2023 at 06:33 PM (#6130117)

... and Tovar makes me look good by delivering a walk-off game-winning single.

499. Walt Davis Posted: May 25, 2023 at 07:39 PM (#6130130)

500. Walt Davis Posted: May 25, 2023 at 07:39 PM (#6130131)

THE

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