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Wednesday, March 31, 2021

On eve of openers, Manfred hopes full capacity by midsummer

“I hope by midsummer that we have ballparks that are unrestricted and we have full fan access,” Manfred said Wednesday during an interview with The Associated Press.

Last year’s shortened regular season was played entirely without fans, who were allowed back only for the NL Championship Series and World Series, and then in limited numbers for games moved to a neutral site in Arlington, Texas.

“For most clubs, this will be another year of significant losses. It’s not going to be the $2.5 to $3 billion that we had last year, but there will be significant losses if we continue in the mode where we don’t have full fans,” Manfred said. “The clubs have done a great job of working with financial institutions they had relationships with in terms of assuring liquidity.”...

He thinks fans long to return to ballparks.

“I see this season as a huge opportunity for baseball,” he said. “We’re an outdoor sport. I think it’s safe or safer to go to outdoor activities. Everybody seems to agree on that. And I think that there’s pent-up demand for entertainment products, and we’re going to do everything we possibly can to take the best opportunity to take advantage of that.”

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 31, 2021 at 06:22 PM | 52 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: coronavirus, rob manfred

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   1. bookbook Posted: April 01, 2021 at 01:53 PM (#6011039)
Na Fred is right to have this goal. If he wants to make it happen, MLB should be funding a massive outreach campaign, mailing team logo masks to every season ticket holder, pushing and enabling vaccination drives, etc. There’s so much money at stake, I can’t understand why more businesses (McDonalds? Chipotle? United Airlines? Target?) haven’t acted to help end the pandemic. The investment would pay for itself.
   2. KronicFatigue Posted: April 01, 2021 at 02:06 PM (#6011042)
1 - That's a good idea, but unfortunately half the country would be offended by such gestures as mask wearing has become a "political" issue.
   3. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE Posted: April 01, 2021 at 02:25 PM (#6011047)
I'll gladly settle for half-full ballparks by the All-Star Game. Enforcing at least three feet of social distancing is way more important than handing out masks.
   4. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 01, 2021 at 02:43 PM (#6011050)
We are now hitting 3M vaccine doses a day with some regularity, with the current 7-day rolling average just a tick below. Getting that up to 3.5M in April and 4M in May goes a long way to herd immunity. Should return to something like normalcy by the All-Star break, if not before.
   5. Karl from NY Posted: April 01, 2021 at 02:53 PM (#6011054)
I'm not attending a single sports event until it's absolutely completely normally functional. No masks, no distancing, no testing or vaccine passports, no biofascism theater whatsoever. I'm also completely expecting that that will never go away like the 9/11 airport security and I'll never attend a sports event again.
   6. Brian C Posted: April 01, 2021 at 03:18 PM (#6011063)
Enforcing at least three feet of social distancing is way more important than handing out masks.

This is the complete opposite of true and a good example of the thinking that has led to so many deaths.

The virus is spread primarily by aerosol transmission. 3 feet does very little for you; these distance guidelines are outdated, and based on the mistaken belief that COVID is transmitted primarily from droplets. Masks, on the other hand, greatly reduce aerosol transmission, and countries (e.g., most of Asia) that enforce mask mandates have had far more success fighting COVID than we have.
   7. Nasty Nate Posted: April 01, 2021 at 03:29 PM (#6011067)
I'm not attending a single sports event until it's absolutely completely normally functional. No masks, no distancing, no testing or vaccine passports, no biofascism theater whatsoever. I'm also completely expecting that that will never go away like the 9/11 airport security and I'll never attend a sports event again.
well, you certainly are an expert on theatrical
   8. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE Posted: April 01, 2021 at 03:41 PM (#6011069)
This is the complete opposite of true and a good example of the thinking that has led to so many deaths.
Take it up with the CDC -- and note its recommendation is for a classroom, not a cavernous facility with advanced cooling systems, let alone an outdoor stadium.
   9. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili (TeddyF.Ballgame) Posted: April 01, 2021 at 03:46 PM (#6011072)
Did you read what you linked?

CDC now recommends that, with universal masking, students should maintain a distance of at least 3 feet in classroom settings.
   10. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: April 01, 2021 at 03:50 PM (#6011074)
Enforcing at least three feet of social distancing is way more important than handing out masks.

This is the complete opposite of true and a good example of the thinking that has led to so many deaths.

Take it up with the CDC -- and note its recommendation is for a classroom, not a cavernous facility with advanced cooling systems, let alone an outdoor stadium.


Who needs baseball now that virtue-signaling has become America's favourite sport...?
   11. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE Posted: April 01, 2021 at 03:56 PM (#6011077)
CDC now recommends that, with universal masking, students should maintain a distance of at least 3 feet in classroom settings.
Sigh, I didn't say fans shouldn't wear masks, merely that social distancing was more important.

EDIT: Heck, being at the ballpark or a (mostly peaceful) protest are pretty much the only venues where wearing a mask outdoors is worthwhile.
   12. Lassus Posted: April 01, 2021 at 04:06 PM (#6011082)
Please allow me to say I don't want Jason running an operating room or ER at any point.
   13. Brian C Posted: April 01, 2021 at 04:22 PM (#6011084)
I agree that a cavernous ballpark is safer than a classroom, on the whole. But it’s *still the case* that the virus is spread primarily through aerosol transmission, which means that masks are therefore more important than distancing (especially completely arbitrary 3ft distancing).

Also, the CDC has been notoriously slow in recognizing the role of aerosol transmission, so linking to them is kinda doubling down on the factual incorrectness. I’d sorta love to take it up with them, as would virtually the entirety of the world’s virologists and epidemiologists.
   14. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE Posted: April 01, 2021 at 04:35 PM (#6011088)
The six-feet distancing rule is what's completely arbitrary, an 80-year old substitute for science, and is finally getting shelved.

To date, there is no conclusive evidence showing outdoor transmission beyond the equivalent of a rugby scrum is a significant threat.

EDIT: The aerosol transmission concern might be taken more seriously if governments mandated that everyone wear fitted surgical masks.
   15. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: April 01, 2021 at 05:01 PM (#6011098)
[1] How is MLB supposed to increase production of vaccines? The companies already have government contracts for enough doses for every American.
   16. Brian C Posted: April 01, 2021 at 05:26 PM (#6011108)
The six-feet distancing rule is what's completely arbitrary, an 80-year old substitute for science, and is finally getting shelved.

To date, there is no conclusive evidence showing outdoor transmission beyond the equivalent of a rugby scrum is a significant threat.

Well, I'm not really arguing that point. Outdoor activities are pretty safe. The original point was the relative effectiveness of masks vs. 3ft of distancing, and I feel like you're moving the goalp ... er, fences back a little bit.
EDIT: The aerosol transmission concern might be taken more seriously if governments mandated that everyone wear fitted surgical masks.

What does this even mean? The virus works the way that virus works, whether governments mandate fitted surgical masks or physical distancing or headbands encrusted with healing crystals blessed by Gwyneth Paltrow.

At any rate, the failure of western governments to make effective recommendations to stop the spread of the virus has literally been the biggest story in the world for over a year now, so your point seems especially bizarre. Asian governments (as well as Australia/NZ), as previously noted, have mostly done much better.
   17. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE Posted: April 01, 2021 at 05:38 PM (#6011112)
What does this even mean?
Huh? You're saying there's no difference in protection in wearing a fitted surgical mask versus say, a dirty cloth one? OK...
Asian governments (as well as Australia/NZ), as previously noted, have mostly done much better.
Additionally, it can't be ruled out that certain East Asian countries' populations* possess a greater resistance to the virus because of their exposure to SARS CoV-2 back in 2003.

Also, it's not incredibly challenging for a handful of sparsely populated islands 1,500 miles east of Australia to shut themselves off from the rest of the world.

* To be sure, China's numbers are suspect and Indonesia and the Philippines are certainly not COVID role models.
   18. BDC Posted: April 01, 2021 at 05:47 PM (#6011117)
a cavernous facility with advanced cooling systems

It's the BDC that recommends those.
   19. Brian C Posted: April 01, 2021 at 05:51 PM (#6011119)
Well, it can't be ruled out that certain East Asian countries' populations* possess a greater resistance because of their exposure to SARS CoV-2 back in 2003?

Well, it can, since SARS CoV-2 did not exist until late 2019.

But assuming that you're referring to the original SARS CoV strain, I guess it can't be ruled out entirely that there's some effect there, but that outbreak was not widespread enough to make a major difference (figures here). And there's definitely no reason to just assume it; at any rate, the fact that the original COVID-19 wave in Wuhan was so severe would seem to put a big dent in the probability of this being true.

The original SARS was far easier to control, since that virus was not very contagious until the later stages of disease. So quarantine was far more effective. This is another thing that the CDC was very slow to respond to - asymptomatic/presymptomatic transmission of COVID-19 was driving outbreaks and very little guidance was given that recognized this.

And the simple fact of the matter is that Japan took aerosol transmission much more seriously from the start, to both far better results and less disruption to daily life. And they were barely touched by the 2003 SARS outbreak.

"Huh? You're saying there's no difference in protection in wearing a fitted surgical mask versus say, a dirty cloth one? OK..."

Well, no, obviously I'm not saying that, and I see that you've failed to quote anything that I said that even suggests such a stupid thing.
   20. Walt Davis Posted: April 01, 2021 at 06:03 PM (#6011128)
Note that Oz/NZ success had little to do with masking and more to do with (a) being lucky enough to not have it take hold early so we could see Italy, UK, NYC, etc. have their initial outbreaks and had the chance to get our #### together in time and (b) pretty strict national lockdowns (very strict in NZ) and some closed state borders in Oz (uncertain impact). In Australia, masks were only universally mandated in Victoria in response to the 2nd wave. They were relatively briefly "mandatory" for grocery stores, etc. in NSW and that wasn't that strongly enforced. Because they got used to wearing them all the time, I gather Victorians still wear masks pretty often; masks haven't been common in NSW grocery stores since .... July? Aug?

(That's not questioning the effectiveness of masking, which is obvious, just the reality of how things have gone down here. I don't know if we have a Kiwi here anymore but, from my friends, my impression is everything has been normal since they declared eradication 10 months ago or whatever. A bunch of friends of mine just finished a 2-week bike tour around Queenstown including hotels, restaurants, sharing vans and buses -- y'know, tourism. In both countries, once the Vic outbreak was controlled, the only local transmissions have been traced to quarantine hotel workers getting infected from a returning overseas resident.)

The Australian Fed and state governments did a very good job of listening to the experts, not that there was 100% agreement. Among other things, they seemed to recognize this was the SMART political play -- don't blame me we're going into lockdown, it's what the experts say we need to do ... I will blame them if it doesn't work but be sure to give me credit if it does. It did and the PM and every state premier (roughly governor) enjoy very high approval ratings (everybody is still jealous of Jacinda though). As I've noted a few times, governments were also somewhat forced into this -- schools didn't need to close because only about 1/4 of the kids were showing up anyway, most people who could work from home started working from home ... so schools and workplaces did have to scramble to set up widespread remote. My workplace always had about a dozen people (out of 60+) going in every day even during "lockdown" though everybody could have worked remote. (The criteria for "essential" work were quite loose.)

Alas, the vaccine rollout is a dog's breakfast in Oz. But with almost no cases, the impact of that is not severe so far.
   21. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE Posted: April 01, 2021 at 06:07 PM (#6011131)
Well, no, obviously I'm not saying that, and I see that you've failed to quote anything that I said that even suggests such a stupid thing.
In that case, it's a mystery what your point was about aerosol transmission.
But assuming that you're referring to the original SARS CoV strain, I guess it can't be ruled out entirely that there's some effect there, but that outbreak was not widespread enough to make a major difference (figures here). And there's definitely no reason to just assume it; at any rate, the fact that the original COVID-19 wave in Wuhan was so severe would seem to put a big dent in the probability of this being true.
It's a credible assertion, albeit not necessarily about SARS:
Yasuhiro Suzuki has pondered the question as the highest-ranking doctor in the Japanese Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare’s medical corps until his retirement in August.

“There’s a theory, and I think it’s quite a strong one, that in East Asia a cold similar to the novel coronavirus spread widely and a large number of people caught it,” Dr. Suzuki said. “As a result of having immunity to a similar virus—although it isn’t bulletproof immunity—they either don’t develop it or don’t get seriously ill if they do,” he said, referring to Covid-19.

He cautioned that there aren’t any solid studies to back up the idea.

Research in Western nations shows some people’s immune systems partly recognize SARS-CoV-2, the new coronavirus, even though they were never exposed to it, apparently because of previous infections by coronaviruses that cause the common cold. There are hints these people do better fending off Covid-19.

A study by scientists at the Francis Crick Institute in London and elsewhere in the U.K. looked at blood samples collected before the Covid-19 pandemic. The study, published in the journal Science, found that about one in 20 adults sampled had antibodies that recognized SARS-CoV-2, and that nearly half of children and adolescents had such antibodies. ...

Tatsuhiko Kodama, who is studying SARS-CoV-2 antibodies at the University of Tokyo’s Research Center for Advanced Science and Technology, said infections with viruses resembling the new coronavirus have likely repeatedly occurred in East Asia. Dr. Kodama said he was sure that exposure was related to the immune response to SARS-CoV-2.

He said some unpublished initial data collected by his team suggest Japanese Covid-19 patients are producing a targeted antibody called IgG soon after the onset of illness while producing relatively little of another antibody called IgM that typically marks the initial immune response. This implies they have already seen something like SARS-CoV-2, he said.
   22. Brian C Posted: April 01, 2021 at 06:16 PM (#6011136)
If mask quality doesn't matter, then it's a mystery what your point was about aerosol transmission.

There's no mystery, because I've made it extremely clear multiple times now: the point is the relative effectiveness of masks vs. physical distancing.

At any rate, "I don't get your point so I'm going to cram the dumbest possible words I can think of into your mouth" is simply a bad faith tactic. Not that this is any surprise, coming from you.
It's actually a credible assertion, albeit not necessarily about SARS

Agreed; now that you're "not necessarily" talking about the specific thing that you brought up, it's much more credible.
   23. The Honorable Ardo Posted: April 01, 2021 at 06:18 PM (#6011139)
I have no trouble going to a ballpark, though I haven't yet been vaccinated. In fact, I plan to be in Comerica Park on Tuesday :)
   24. cHiEf iMpaCt oFfiCEr JE Posted: April 01, 2021 at 06:43 PM (#6011150)
At any rate, "I don't get your point so I'm going to cram the dumbest possible words I can think of into your mouth" is simply a bad faith tactic. Not that this is any surprise, coming from you.
In the either/or scenario that you posited, don't act stupid: Mask quality matters.

Also, GFY.
   25. gef the talking mongoose, peppery hostile Posted: April 01, 2021 at 08:44 PM (#6011173)
Gefilte Fish yumyums?
   26. Brian C Posted: April 01, 2021 at 08:52 PM (#6011175)
In the either/or scenario that you posited, don't act stupid: Mask quality matters.

Can I get a few slugs in on this strawman you're heroically battling with? Heroic though you may be, it seems like you're really struggling with it and need the help.
Also, GFY.

OK, so you have to admit I was onto something with that "bad faith" accusation, right?
   27. Howie Menckel Posted: April 01, 2021 at 09:50 PM (#6011179)
I skimmed a couple of dozen posts, noticing that the content appears to be completely independent of the fact that, well, a couple of Americans have already gotten a vaccine so far - with a few more to follow, I hear.

is there trepidation about people going to games even weeks after their vaccination shot(s)?
   28. gef the talking mongoose, peppery hostile Posted: April 01, 2021 at 10:30 PM (#6011182)
Well, 2 teams are in Texas, 2 (that don't ever exactly draw heavy attendance, of course) are in Florida, 2 are in Missouri & 1 is in Georgia.* I have a feeling that the drooling imbeciles in those states -- remember, I'm from the deep SW corner of (1) Arkansas, very near the borders of (2) Louisiana & (3) Texas, & I live smack in the middle of (4) Alabama, so I by god know from drooling imbeciles -- won't be racking up particularly high vaccination rates.

With any luck, of course, they'll all either die before midseason or be cripplingly ill, &/or won't be attending baseball games anyway (monster truck shows are presumably more those idiots' fare), but it's not something I for one would count on.

*Not that other states with MLB teams are exactly free of ambulatory tumors, but those 4 stick out for me.
   29. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 01, 2021 at 11:12 PM (#6011188)
Another thread where people tell us how much better they are than those they live among? <yawn>
   30. Brian C Posted: April 01, 2021 at 11:17 PM (#6011190)
No, I think people that are vaccinated have little to worry about, especially as news continues to come out that vaccinated people don't carry the virus. And it's clear that even vaccinated people who do get sick (and it's pretty rare) don't get severe illness of the degree that results in hospitalization or death. The vaccines have by all accounts performed amazingly well so far and are the ticket back to normalcy.

But there's still a lot of people that are not vaccinated, and it's not like the whole stadium experience is outdoors. There are restrooms, gift shops, narrow and/or sheltered concourses that may or may not have good air flow, club areas for the swells, etc. And while outdoor transmission is overall pretty negligible, as JE pointed out, tightly packed crowds plainly increase the risk (as JE put it, rugby scrum conditions). It seems very likely to me that one of the reasons outdoor transmission has been so rare is that tight crowds like you see at packed stadiums have been all but banned almost all over the world for the last year. I'd be more worried about shoulder-to-shoulder traffic choke points like tunnels or ramps than sitting in my seat.

I think the evidence mostly points to reduced-capacity crowds being OK. As more people get vaccinated, higher capacity crowds become less risky. Personally (not yet being vaccinated), I'd feel safe going to a game with 20% capacity, like Wrigley was today, or perhaps somewhat higher. Although I'd probably skip the gift shop and keep my bathroom visits to a minimum. I would not feel comfortable at a full-capacity event.
   31. John Northey Posted: April 02, 2021 at 02:25 AM (#6011198)
Reading here, like I did on a thread on the Athletic, reminds me of why I'm avoiding the US even after this is over. Too many really dumb people who think they know everything.

This is a pandemic people. Over half a million in the US have died from it. More per capita than almost anywhere else on Earth. Despite having insane levels of wealth and a military with more money than most nations that should've made it possible to do a real lockdown early on and kill it off. Instead pure self-centered 'me first' crap took over and now the US is producing variants at a scary pace while the virus goes around with ease thanks to multiple insanely stupid moves. Here in Ontario Canada we have an ex-drug dealer as premier (his brother was the infamous druggie mayor of Toronto from a few years ago who is now dead) and he is flopping horribly after starting off good. He looked good probably in comparison to his hero Mr. Trump. Having guys who were born rich and who have been told what special people they are from day 1 run things is not a good idea. They think they don't need to listen to anyone because daddy always made sure they passed every course in school and bought them anything needed to advance in life. As adults they learned money buys anything so they will do anything to get more of it. If that means thousands of seniors have to die so their donors are happy, so be it. Ford after seeing many seniors die in private long term care homes went out and gave those homes immunity from prosecution.

Rant, rant, rant. Sadly those who need to listen and learn never will. Too busy complaining about their dear leader losing by millions of votes.
   32. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: April 02, 2021 at 11:42 AM (#6011227)
I think #30 sums up my position pretty well, except that I won't be going to any events until I'm vaccinated, since I'm shielding a family member at elevated risk from Covid, and even the small chance of bringing it home for an unnecessary event, at a time when transmission still seems pretty widespread, would be a poor choice - especially with vaccines so close to wider rollout. If it were going to be two years before I expected to be vaccinated, or new cases were down in the hundreds daily rather than the tens of thousands, maybe that calculus would change.

I'd also note that the mentality #5 demonstrates is exactly what we should want to see. If people aren't willing to abide by the safety measures, they should stay home. That's a good outcome for the people who do go (who will be less likely to be exposed to the virus by those near them taking things insufficiently seriously) and for those who don't (who won't be subject to the ultimate indignity of wearing a bit of cloth on their faces sometimes). Bravo.
   33. . Posted: April 02, 2021 at 01:17 PM (#6011239)
Reading here, like I did on a thread on the Athletic, reminds me of why I'm avoiding the US even after this is over. Too many really dumb people who think they know everything.


Oh, shut up. And I think we'll be just fine here if you never visit, so don't worry.

Sadly those who need to listen and learn never will.


People typically don't feel a great urge to listen to pompous twits, no.
   34. Howie Menckel Posted: April 02, 2021 at 01:24 PM (#6011241)
Having guys who were born rich and who have been told what special people they are from day 1 run things is not a good idea. They think they don't need to listen to anyone because daddy always made sure they passed every course in school and bought them anything needed to advance in life. As adults they learned money buys anything so they will do anything to get more of it. If that means thousands of seniors have to die so their donors are happy, so be it.

how did Cuomo get tossed into this salad?
   35. Lassus Posted: April 02, 2021 at 03:02 PM (#6011271)
People typically don't feel a great urge to listen to pompous twits, no.

Heh. Heh heh. HA. HAAAAAHAHAHHAHHAHHAAA!
   36. bookbook Posted: April 02, 2021 at 08:15 PM (#6011331)
I am hopeful about the vaccination rollout, though it looks to be a foot race against the more contagious variants and the unwillingness of Americans to follow safety guidelines or to understand that scientific guidance is not a political stance, even when the guidance isn’t convenient.

(Manfred could have helped speed the ramp up last fall and winter. Now, I do think we’re accelerating in a way that baseball’s biggest help can be showing star players getting the shot. Especially noted rightwingers like Curt Schilling or John Smoltz (or 80% of current white MLBers).

I do think that CDC’s school guidance has been optimistic. Even with masking (except when the kids eat lunch!), later analysis is likely to show that schools have been a meaningful source of asymptomatic spread to vulnerable parents and the community.

Outdoor baseball is certainly less risky than many activities, but less necessary as well. I’m skipping it at least until my slow state can get me vaccinated.I’ll probably wait until my 14-year-old can also be protected. That means 2022, I’m afraid.
   37. Howie Menckel Posted: April 02, 2021 at 08:52 PM (#6011334)
I'll be 2 weeks out from my one-and-done vaccine on Mets home opener day, but my baseball game partner-in-crime of 35 years is lagging behind - so I'll likely wait a few weeks for him.
   38. Astroenteritis Posted: April 02, 2021 at 11:11 PM (#6011359)
I'm planning on attending the Angels-Astros game in about three weeks, but I'll be almost four weeks past my second dose by then, and I'll sure as hell be wearing a mask and sitting as far from everyone as I can. I know the risk isn't zero, but it's as close as I will get to that for a very long time. I also hope the roof is open, but then I always hope for that.
   39. Howie Menckel Posted: April 02, 2021 at 11:58 PM (#6011362)
I know the risk isn't zero

was it ever zero?

I am a little mystified by the lack of faith in vaccine effectiveness - and moreso by attending a game, yet almost in quarantine.

science, anybody?
   40. Brian C Posted: April 03, 2021 at 12:50 AM (#6011366)
I am a little mystified by the lack of faith in vaccine effectiveness

There's little mystery about it, I fear - the CDC and other public health officials have been pretty consistent in their messaging that people need to be cautious even after vaccinating. As usual, they're very overcautious and unrealistic vis a vis how people actually behave. But it's hard to blame people for believing them. They're supposed to be the "science", after all.
   41. sunday silence (again) Posted: April 03, 2021 at 01:03 AM (#6011369)
Brian: Recent news stories I hear suggest that the vaccines here in US are effective at preventing asymptomatic transmission. Is that your understanding?
   42. Brian C Posted: April 03, 2021 at 02:05 AM (#6011372)
As far as I’ve seen, the studies have been focused so far on the Pfizer vaccine, and do show that the vax is effective at preventing not just symptomatic disease but **infection** in the first place. If you’re not infected, you can’t transmit it to someone else.

No reason so far not to expect the same from Moderna once those studies come in as well, since the two work pretty similarly and have both performed very similarly to date. Harder to say with the J&J, but unless I’ve missed something, it’s currently in the “not proven” bin, and not the “reason for doubt” bin.
   43. base ball chick Posted: April 03, 2021 at 02:41 PM (#6011429)
the risk is not zero. the info says that pfizer/moderna is effective in preventing DEATH or icu. it does not say that you cannot catch the virus and become extremely sick but not sick enough for ICU and that means you can still breathe and walk even if just barely. this does not mean you are not incredibly sick and maybe even sick for months and months, and it does not mean that when you are sick you can't give the virus to anyone

at this point, i think i understand that if you are vaccinated and you test positive with PCR, but have no symptoms, you don't have enough virus to be able to transmit it. i have not heard this about people who are vaccinated AND still get very sick. and until i do, i'm not going to anything indoors except the kroger early in the morning when it is almost empty (or pharmacy) when it is almost empty

i am certainly not going to anything indoor with a bunch of people yelling and screaming. you couldn't pay me to.

i don't consider anything "safe" even 2 weeks after full vaccination. i am making exception for my kidz and a few relatives. Husband wants to restart weekly backyard BBQs like we used to do before that stupid virus and seeing as how it is OUTDOORS ok if anyone who comes over is vaccinated

but in those big areas i just don't trust other folks and am going to continue to wear a mask and not go unless i have no choice

you see howie
if the vaccine was 100% effective, like taking out both ovaries and uterus will absolutely 100% prevent pregnancy, i would feel different about it. but it is not so i don't

brian C

there are definitely cases of symptomatic infections in fully vaccinated patients
   44. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: April 03, 2021 at 03:17 PM (#6011432)
Michigan's 7-day case average is about to be higher than it was in the winter. I really, really hope I'm just being Eeyore, and suspect that I might be, but I'm having a hard time imagining a packed crowd anytime soon.

If I'm being honest, the true Eeyore in me honestly can't ever picture things like indoor theatre ever happening again. Not saying that's a rational belief, pretty sure it's irrational, but I'm not able to shake that feeling.
   45. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 03, 2021 at 03:37 PM (#6011434)
Multiple effective vaccines were developed in record time, and are being distributed, more or less, under a steadily increasing production schedule. To me, that glass is more than half full. 104.2M have been vaccinated, 39% of the eligible population, and 31.4% of the total population. We had more than 4M doses reported today - sustain, or exceed, that pace for a month and the picture improves dramatically. Focusing on outliers where a vaccinated person still gets a [usually mild] Covid case is missing the big picture.
   46. base ball chick Posted: April 03, 2021 at 05:50 PM (#6011447)
YC

i am most certainly NOT complaining about the vaccines, trust me on this. it was like a YUGE weight got lifted off my neck when we finally all (including kidz) got vaccine #2. i am not so frightened all the time about Husband and my Blood Pressure is much better. but this is texas. which is more than half red. and at least half of those males and 1/3 of those females are refusing vaccines because it is, um, unamerican or communism or nazism or something. so there are going to continue to be a TON of unvaccinated people in my state, so the danger is not going away. at least here in houston, bidnesses i go to are still requiring masks - at least the ones i have to go to - and even after they stop requiring them, i'm not going to stop wearing mine and i'm not going indoors to anything but the kroger because i know how things are. and no one is coming to this house who is not fully vaccinated. no exceptions, no kidding
   47. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 03, 2021 at 06:33 PM (#6011451)
. . . but this is texas. which is more than half red. and at least half of those males and 1/3 of those females are refusing vaccines because it is, um, unamerican or communism or nazism or something. . .
Portraying vaccine skepticism as exclusive to those you disagree with politically is missing large segments of that population. Too widely reported to think anyone could have missed it.
   48. Brian C Posted: April 03, 2021 at 08:28 PM (#6011467)
there are definitely cases of symptomatic infections in fully vaccinated patients

Of course, and I acknowledged this in #30.
Portraying vaccine skepticism as exclusive to those you disagree with politically is missing large segments of that population. Too widely reported to think anyone could have missed it.

I too would advise bbc to avoid doing this, but to her credit she obviously has not done so to this point.
   49. sunday silence (again) Posted: April 03, 2021 at 08:35 PM (#6011469)
Portraying vaccine skepticism as exclusive to those you disagree with politically is missing large segments of that population. Too widely reported to think anyone could have missed it.


this is a bit like saying the Nazi's werent the only anti semitic group in Germany...
   50. base ball chick Posted: April 03, 2021 at 10:25 PM (#6011484)
YC

there is no way i think silliness about the vaccine is limited in any way to religion, ethnicity or gender. if you notice, i said that visiting my house would be limited to a FEW relatives. ahem. at this point, the limitation includes 2 brothers and one parent (although daddy will be fully vaccinated next week because i told him i wouldn't have anything to do with him until he got vaccinated and he finally figured i meant it - and seriously he has every risk factor there is except diabetes. and just because you haven't got it SO far doesn't mean you CAN'T get it. kind of like insisting you are sterile at age 18 because having unprotected sex a dozen times so far hasn';t got you pregnant yet)

people of any persuasion who have had vaccines finished for over 2 weeks are welcome. not that i know any of other political parties who would be interested to coming to my house, but, as john said, ah digress

at this point, in MAH state, there are more White repubs who are against being vaccinated than people of other ethnicities/politics.
   51. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: April 04, 2021 at 12:16 AM (#6011499)
We are now hitting 3M vaccine doses a day with some regularity, with the current 7-day rolling average just a tick below. Getting that up to 3.5M in April and 4M in May goes a long way to herd immunity. Should return to something like normalcy by the All-Star break, if not before.


4 mil today.
   52. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: April 04, 2021 at 02:14 PM (#6011546)
pfizer/moderna is effective in preventing DEATH

Well, there's that.

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