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Friday, February 15, 2019

OT - 2018-19 NBA thread (All-Star Weekend to Twelfth of Never edition)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of whom can be bothered to curate their own thread to avoid detracting from what this site is really about:  Kyler Murray and how the Galactic Empire did nothing wrong.

Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: February 15, 2019 at 12:14 PM | 1586 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, off-topic

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   1101. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: April 02, 2019 at 11:52 AM (#5827853)
Flip.
   1102. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: April 02, 2019 at 11:53 AM (#5827855)
Mike Wise @MikeWiseguy 13h13 hours ago

True story: Cavs cheerleader came up to me during ‘96 Knicks game. Said, “Are you Mike Wise from The NY Times? OMG, I read everything you write.” I went to talk to her after game and she blew me off. I walked into locker room. Patrick Ewing looked up and smiled: “April Fools.”
   1103. spivey Posted: April 02, 2019 at 12:11 PM (#5827861)
You put Zion in the Giannis/Harden type offense where it's him and 4 shooters and I think he'll be elite from season 2. He's pretty much a guarantee to be a star if he stays healthy.
   1104. DCA Posted: April 02, 2019 at 12:17 PM (#5827862)
TGF comped Zion to Larry Johnson a while ago. Statistically, it's a great comp. Johnson was a better shooter, Zion's a bit bigger. They both played college ball on a roster full of NBA players so the team context is comparable. IIRC, Johnson was also comparable in hype/regard.

   1105. NJ in NJ Posted: April 02, 2019 at 12:26 PM (#5827864)
I get that there are better athletes in the NBA than at the college level, but Zion is still in the 99.9th percentile of NBA athletes. It's clear to me how his weaknesses can be exploited in a playoff/game planning for you situation, but he's going to be incredibly impactful from day 1 of the regular season.
   1106. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: April 02, 2019 at 12:36 PM (#5827867)
Johnson was a better shooter,


Thought for sure this was a typo, because Zion shot 68% on Field Goals this year. But LJ was 64% in his college career, and much better from the line (79% vs 64% for Zion).

Zion reminds me of an extremely wealthy Julius Randle-an absolute wrecking ball in the paint, with good ball-handling and playmaking, especially for their size. Zion is more dynamic, and will likely be a much, much better defender.

   1107. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: April 02, 2019 at 02:03 PM (#5827899)
On a separate/related note, I need somebody to tell me I'm crazy about Zion. Basically, the only 20 minutes of live action college basketball I've seen this year were the second half of Duke-Michigan St. Zion is a force of nature - incredibly athletic and explosive. He has a gravity that bends the shape of the college game. But. He's not a great shooter. From my very, very, limited sample, he doesn't initiate the offense from the perimeter and is reliant on others to get him the ball in position. In the NBA, I fear his athleticism will not be quite as impactful defensively, and that it will be easier for NBA defenses with greater size and athleticism to take him out of the offense. Is my very, very limited sample not representative? Or is it representative and I'm just wrong?

You're crazy. It's important to note that Duke was an awful 3-point shooting team, literally one of the worst in the nation (30.8% = 329th out of 353 teams). At all times Zion was surrounded by at least 3 guys who can't shoot, sometimes 4. Every opponent schemed to clog the paint and collapse on him with 2-3 defenders anytime he could touch the ball within 15 feet of the rim. That makes it all the more remarkable that Zion shot 75% inside the arc.

In the NBA, Zion should be surrounded by at least 3 guys who CAN shoot, sometimes 4. As a result, it actually should be harder for NBA defenses to take him out of the offense. One thing you probably couldn't see from the second half of the MSU game is that Zion has good vision and feel as a distributor. At Duke, teams double- or triple-teamed him and forced him to kick it out to a non-shooter. Space the floor with long-range threats around him, and it's a risky strategy to double him in the post. Of course individual defenders in the NBA should be better equipped to challenge him in the paint, though very few would like their chances one-on-one.

Zion also has a quickness/coordination advantage over other 4s and 5s and a solid handle for a big man, so if you can effectively clear out the lane, he can initiate offense from the perimeter. He gets in trouble as an initiator when he tries to split double teams or spin around a help defender; a less cluttered lane should limit the need to do that. Just imagine Zion landing in Atlanta alongside Trae, Huerter, Prince, and John Collins. How do you defend him in that situation?
   1108. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: April 02, 2019 at 02:31 PM (#5827908)
Ding dong, Ernie Grunfeld has been dismissed from the Wizards

The Wizards have decided to dismiss longtime team president Ernie Grunfeld, according to league sources
   1109. JC in DC Posted: April 02, 2019 at 02:41 PM (#5827914)
I agree with everything positive said about Zion. It's not just that he's that good, the NBA is also designed for a guy like him now. He will thrive. The Knicks probably don't end up with him, but they can't move out of the slight chance they have.

The UNLV team, by the way, was better than this Duke team.
   1110. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: April 02, 2019 at 02:47 PM (#5827917)
K.C. Johnson @KCJHoop 16m16 minutes ago

Grunfeld hired in June 2003, 2 months after Bulls hired John Paxson.


This should bring up another round of questioning regarding Pax's job security.

Who had the better longer, inexplicable tenure with their team - Pax with Bulls or Enrie with Wizetts?
   1111. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: April 02, 2019 at 02:48 PM (#5827918)
Worth noting on Duke, and moreso Barrett and Zion:
Rodger Sherman‏ @rodger

Duke lost three games with Zion Williamson in the lineup this year. RJ Barrett went ***0-for-9*** in the final minute of those three games. The rest of the team had three total shots. Zion had one.
   1112. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: April 02, 2019 at 03:10 PM (#5827937)
Who had the better longer, inexplicable tenure with their team - Pax with Bulls or Enrie with Wizetts?
TBD, since John Paxson still has the opportunity to hang on for several more years of bad decisions, but for my money, Grunfeld still has the lead: Pax oversaw several years of better, and better-constructed, teams than Grunfeld ever did.
   1113. JC in DC Posted: April 02, 2019 at 03:34 PM (#5827942)
If you told me that Grunfeld and Pax had served the same time I would have said you were mistaken. I thought Grunfeld's tenure was much longer.

Re 1111: Isn't that on Coach K? How on earth did Zion not get a shot at the end of that last game?
   1114. RJ in TO Posted: April 02, 2019 at 03:39 PM (#5827944)
I'd think it would be very difficult to say Grunfeld was more successful than Paxson, given the Bulls have more playoff appearances and better regular seasons records over the stretch than the Wizards, and aren't heading into next season with John Wall's disastrous contract on the books.
   1115. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: April 02, 2019 at 04:58 PM (#5827965)
Fair enough, looking at the records it's not as close as I thought (Bulls are over .500, Wiz aren't), and the Bulls did have more playoff appearances and playoff wins (games and series). Pax has gotten to fire and hire 1 more coach, which is still something that blows my mind (both fired the guy they inherited, it appears, or at least got to pick the guy coaching the team the first season). Wiz definitely are in worse shape today, and Pax did just rip off Grunfeld in the Porter deal.
   1116. Moeball Posted: April 02, 2019 at 07:50 PM (#5828025)
Looking forward to Denver vs GS tonight. If Denver wins, they're back into a tie for first. If GS wins, they go up 2 games on Denver with only 5 left to play...now that OKC has fallen to 8th, isn't that an easier matchup for GS in the first round than San Antonio? For some reason, San Antonio seems to give GS more trouble than they should. Of course, I don't think anyone had SA 11 games over .500 this late in the season, so I guess they've given a lot of teams more trouble than they should. Credit that to Pop!
   1117. Moeball Posted: April 02, 2019 at 08:58 PM (#5828039)
Oh, and now it looks like Boston could end up 4th in the East with Indiana falling to 5th. The way things are going I don't think Indy gets out of the first round.
   1118. spivey Posted: April 02, 2019 at 09:39 PM (#5828048)
San Antonio gave GSW trouble when they had Danny Green and Kawhi. They’d get run off the court by Golden State because their smart crafty #### doesn’t work. OKC has the star talent, defense, and toughness needed to beat Golden State.

Indiana will need Kyrie to suck if they want to get out of the first round. That was true since the moment Dipo went down. Maybe even before that.
   1119. PJ Martinez Posted: April 02, 2019 at 10:54 PM (#5828069)
Oh, and now it looks like Boston could end up 4th in the East with Indiana falling to 5th.
They could, but there's a good chance that Friday's head-to-head game is decisive, and it's in Indiana, and Boston needed a last-second layup to beat the Pacers in Boston last week. So we'll see.
   1120. Booey Posted: April 02, 2019 at 11:11 PM (#5828071)
Russ with just the 2nd 20/20/20 triple double in NBA history, and the first since Wilt in 1968.
   1121. tshipman Posted: April 02, 2019 at 11:34 PM (#5828073)
I think the whole thing with Zion is not exactly what some people are suggesting--that there's a system that exists currently where Zion can slot in and be exceptional. That was more AD or John Wall or KAT.

We knew what AD could become, and he has largely reached that. AD is a great player, and it's great to see how he's redefined the big man position. AD is an evolutionary step in how to play as a big.

Zion is not that. Zion offers the potential for revolution. He's as heavy as Boban! He passes like Pau Gasol! He offers help defense like Ben Wallace!

No one knows what Zion will be in the NBA! Maybe he's part of a lethal spread PnR attack. Maybe he's part of a stifling defense. But what makes Zion exciting is not how you can slot him in on the Warriors or the Rockets. What makes him exciting is that he's got the potential to define the next 10 years much how LeBron has defined the last 10 years.
   1122. Howie Menckel Posted: April 02, 2019 at 11:51 PM (#5828075)
What makes him exciting is that he's got the potential to define the next 10 years much how LeBron has defined the last 10 years.

"potential" is doing some heavy lifting there. and it seems like a prediction that can only win, or play to a draw. #riskfree
   1123. Davo Posted: April 02, 2019 at 11:55 PM (#5828076)
   1124. Davo Posted: April 03, 2019 at 12:01 AM (#5828077)
   1125. Howie Menckel Posted: April 03, 2019 at 12:05 AM (#5828079)
um, I don't think that site is located in Vegas. or the US. or is legal here.

if that matters to anyone.
   1126. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: April 03, 2019 at 12:56 AM (#5828089)
Agree with [1121], good post.

I think for the moment I'm actually most excited to see what Zion can be defensively. So far everything points to him being an outlier defender: athleticism, college stats, eye test. In the modern NBA, I'm not sure there is a player who has ever come into the league that's as promising on that side. Regression to the mean is a #####, but oh my god this looks like it's going to be amazing.
   1127. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: April 03, 2019 at 09:07 AM (#5828104)
No one knows what Zion will be in the NBA! Maybe he's part of a lethal spread PnR attack. Maybe he's part of a stifling defense. But what makes Zion exciting is not how you can slot him in on the Warriors or the Rockets. What makes him exciting is that he's got the potential to define the next 10 years much how LeBron has defined the last 10 years.
zion's exceptional athletic ability, his speed, his power, his explosion, is what makes him exciting. without that, he'd be royce white.

i think what's really underrated about zion is his floor, which imo, if he doesn't break down like a horse at santa clarita, is a perennial all-star.


anyway, here's a primer repost:
612. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: December 08, 2015 at 04:50 PM (#5110176)
I wonder if Hoiberg is regretting his choice. He could have stayed where he was and rumor has it he could have had the Wolves job (which is looking pretty good relative to the Bulls job right now IMO).
regardless of how poorly hoiberg does in the NBA, he'll always have a job waiting for him at some college. eddie jordan and isaih thomas found jobs after some ignominious exits from the NBA. hell, pitino and calipari have had modest amounts of success despite washing out as NBA coaches.
DeRozan just seems like a rich man's Dion Waiters to me.
you can say some of version of that about every 2 guard in the league, from harden, beal and thompson to smith, young and bazemore.
665. Sean Forman Posted: December 08, 2015 at 11:16 PM (#5110557)
I've decided to build a cryogenic chamber and wake up October of 2016, so I can see what the Sixers lineup looks like and skip all of the dickering about the process. If their starting lineup is Embiid, Noel, Covington, Simmons and Kris Dunn and you've got Okafor, Saric, Hollis Thompson, Wroten, Stauskas, Richaun Holmes, Denzel Valentine, Wade Baldwin and two decent FAs coming off the bench this will all be moot.
2300. there isn't anything to do in buffalo but 57i66135 Posted: June 25, 2015 at 03:16 PM (#4985928)
smart <<< 6
and i've mentioned this before, but that's the main reason why i prefer okafor at #3 if russell is taken at #2. the value of guys like smart (who's a guard) and porzingis (who's a euro) can take a nose dive if they have a bad rookie year, but a highly regarded big like okafor has a lot more durability built into his trade value.
   1128. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: April 03, 2019 at 01:11 PM (#5828213)
Heh (Athletic $, trying to summarize the Boylen experience this year):

Boylen describing his players

Otto Porter Jr.: “His approach already is respected. His spirit is acknowledged. He’s got a brightness about him and a care factor.”

Chandler Hutchison: “Hutch has got such a good spirit. I think to be a good NBA player, you’ve got to have a good spirit. His spirit is so positive. Shaq (Harrison) too is the same way. His spirit is so good.”

More Hutchison: “His heart’s here. His soul is awesome. It’s great.”

Lauri Markkanen: “His soul and spirit are big time.”

Robin Lopez: “When your heart is pure and you care, I just think (points) happen for you. The ball finds you.”

More Lopez (via Johnson): “He’s a giving, caring person who’s a tough son of a #####.”

Zach LaVine: “Well, he’s, you know, he’s got a great spirit.”

Bobby Portis: “Got a great soul, a great spirit for the game.”

Shaq Harrison: “His spirit is so good.”

More Harrison: “I always kind of said, defensively, he’s like a mad dog chasing a meat truck. But he’s playing within a system now. It’s great.”

Jakarr Sampson: “He was in our hearts and on our minds all year, not just because he was with our G League team, but because of what he did in training camp.”

More Sampson: “Things don’t go unnoticed when you play good basketball with a pure heart. And he did that early. We’re glad he’s here.”
   1129. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: April 03, 2019 at 03:56 PM (#5828295)
I am getting really excited for the playoffs.
   1130. JC in DC Posted: April 03, 2019 at 09:51 PM (#5828399)
Is Trae Young the RoY?
   1131. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: April 03, 2019 at 10:09 PM (#5828407)
Is the dude shooting 33 percent from three and 47 percent from two who grades out as a horrible defender (team has a DRtg 9 points better with him off) the Rookie of the Year? Gosh, I hope not. (Though, it's not that far behind post-slump Doncic, I will give you that.)
   1132. Laser Man Posted: April 04, 2019 at 12:55 PM (#5828572)
The Hawks are playing very well right now, winning 5 of their last 7, including wins over the Bucks, Jazz, and the Sixers twice. And Trae Young has been a huge part of that - for the second half of the season (Games 42-79), Young has averaged 22.8 points and 8.9 assists on .440/.357/.858 shooting, with game-winning shots at the buzzer in the wins over the Bucks and Sixers. In the second half of the season, Doncic has only shot .418/.278/.684. Young has also been durable, playing big minutes in every game this season. Doncic's hot start and Young's slow start (especially November) will probably be enough for Doncic to hold onto the ROY award, but Young has been closing the gap every week.
   1133. spivey Posted: April 04, 2019 at 01:05 PM (#5828579)
To be fair, the Bucks were starting something called a Bonzie Colson in that game. I think every starter besides maybe BroLo was out that game. Atlanta is playing better, but I think Young's shooting numbers were so poor early and his defense is so poor that he doesn't have a chance to win, nor should he win. There's probably a very good chance he comes in second, though JJJ probably should finish above him.

The good news is Young looks like his offensive game is going to play, he could be pretty good.
   1134. aberg Posted: April 04, 2019 at 01:18 PM (#5828582)
Young doesn't look great in RPM. His defense is bad enough by that system that he rates as the #77 PG right behind... Markelle Fultz! Overall, Young is -2.56 RPM and 0.89 wins. Doncic is 1.28/6.35, so a pretty large lead by that metric.

If the award was based solely on post-ASB, I'd probably go with Young. That momentum is positive for him. For the full season, Luka is quite a ways ahead.

edit- VORP and BPM also favor JJJ and Ayton over Young.
   1135. I don't want to talk about Rocco Posted: April 04, 2019 at 01:23 PM (#5828584)
Like 1134 points out his defense is legit bad. Sterling Brown was able to get like 25 points because Young was always like who, what on D.
   1136. aberg Posted: April 04, 2019 at 01:29 PM (#5828592)
Rookies wih a positive VORP (descending)
Doncic, Robinson, Ayton, Mikal Bridges, Gilgeous-Alexander, JJJ, Young, Bamba, Carter, Shamet, Robert Williams (very low minutes played), Bagley, Miles Bridges, Spellman, Okogie.

Rookies with > 1 WS (descending)
Ayton, Robinson, Doncic, Bagley, Shamet, JJJ, Young, Gilgeous-Alexander, Mikal Bridges, Brunson, Miles Bridges, Carter, Bamba, Kurucs, Huerter, Okogie, Spellman, Brown, Williams.

Rookies with positive BPM (descending)
Robinson, Williams, Doncic, Zhaire Smith (15 total MP), Ayton, JJJ.

Worth noting that Robinson has played about half the minutes of several of the recurring names and JJJ is also low in MP. Rookies with over 2k MP: Sexton, Young, Mikal Bridges, Doncic, Ayton, SGA, Knox. Huerter will join them.
   1137. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: April 04, 2019 at 02:28 PM (#5828610)
Bonzie Colson's NBA career:

2019-02-25: 3 minutes
2019-03-24: 2 minutes
2019-03-26: 1 minute
2019-03-28: 1 minute
2019-03-31: 41 minutes
2019-04-01: 1 minute

Tim Frazier also played 53 minutes after a total of 5 minutes in the previous 3 games.

That game was also the first career start for D.J. Wilson, the Bucks 2017 #1 pick.
   1138. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: April 04, 2019 at 04:50 PM (#5828675)
Former D-League MVP Tim Frazier also played 53 minutes after a total of 5 minutes in the previous 3 games.
FTFY
   1139. JC in DC Posted: April 04, 2019 at 10:03 PM (#5828778)
I'm still amazed at how far off Simmons teams play. Middleton stays off him when Simmons approaches the free throw line.
   1140. PJ Martinez Posted: April 04, 2019 at 10:13 PM (#5828779)
Re: the Donic vs. Young et al debate:
The entire 2018 NBA rookie class — or at least the top five picks — deserves an award. Collectively, they are having the best debut season of any group of top five picks in more than 25 years.
   1141. PJ Martinez Posted: April 04, 2019 at 10:41 PM (#5828787)
Fun game. It'll be annoying if they don't give the MVP to Giannis.
   1142. spivey Posted: April 04, 2019 at 10:44 PM (#5828788)
Home court ############# how you like me now
   1143. spivey Posted: April 04, 2019 at 10:52 PM (#5828789)
Zhaire Smith is alive and playing minutes? That's an interesting wrinkle.
   1144. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: April 05, 2019 at 12:05 AM (#5828801)
What do you guys make of the Curry getting contacts thing? Is this ... legitimately going to make him a better shooter, tonight's data point notwithstanding? Or is that not really quite how vision and shooting work? Either way, you are not really supposed to be down by 34 in the third at home when Curry goes 1 for 8 from three. Delightfully tank-tastic, Lakers.

Also, the Bucks/76ers tech-fest was super unfair to Milwaukee (fortunately didn't matter). It sure looked like Scott did the most aggressive thing, but because the refs always try to get the techs to even out and there was only one Buck to two Sixers, Bledsoe had to get two techs to one for Scott and one for Embiid. I hate the double technicals thing in general, but this case seemed especially dumb.
   1145. PJ Martinez Posted: April 05, 2019 at 12:31 PM (#5828909)
Slightly random stat, but apparently the Bucks are now the 8th team to have at least 45 double-digit wins in a season,* and every team that has reached that mark in the past has won the title.

* The record, according to ESPN, is 50 such wins, by the 71-72 Lakers. Two of Golden State's recent title teams have reached the high 40s, as did the Garnett Celtics, the Jordan Bulls (twice), and the Kareem Bucks.
   1146. Booey Posted: April 05, 2019 at 12:36 PM (#5828912)
Slightly random stat, but apparently the Bucks are now the 8th team to have at least 45 double-digit wins in a season,* and every team that has reached that mark in the past has won the title.

* The record, according to ESPN, is 50 such wins, by the 71-72 Lakers. Two of Golden State's recent title teams have reached the high 40s, as did the Garnett Celtics, the Jordan Bulls (twice), and the Kareem Bucks.


Moses is a good poster. You're missing out by having him on ignore. ;-)

(post# 1098)

Still a cool stat, of course.
   1147. spivey Posted: April 05, 2019 at 12:40 PM (#5828917)
Bledsoe being kicked out of the game was silly, but the silver lining is George Hill and Pat Connaughton got a lot of run last night. George Hill was very good and they're going to need a fair number of minutes from them to take some PG duties in the playoffs before Brogdon returns.
   1148. tshipman Posted: April 05, 2019 at 12:57 PM (#5828927)
What do you guys make of the Curry getting contacts thing? Is this ... legitimately going to make him a better shooter, tonight's data point notwithstanding? Or is that not really quite how vision and shooting work? Either way, you are not really supposed to be down by 34 in the third at home when Curry goes 1 for 8 from three. Delightfully tank-tastic, Lakers.


Nah, it's not a thing. Curry's pretty much at the maximum for 3p accuracy. Hard to see how he would realistically improve.

He shoots approximately 50% on open 3s every year. No one has ever shot significantly higher than that. The variance in Curry's 3p% is mostly in how he shoots on pull ups, and how many pull ups he takes vs. catch and shoot. Even for Curry, it's more about shot selection than it is about shot making.
   1149. PJ Martinez Posted: April 05, 2019 at 01:57 PM (#5828965)
1146: Belated coke to Moses!
   1150. aberg Posted: April 05, 2019 at 06:25 PM (#5829076)
1146: Belated coke to Moses!


Even less appealing than Orange Vanilla Coke.
   1151. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: April 05, 2019 at 09:38 PM (#5829113)
Even less appealing than Orange Vanilla Coke.


They're pretty good.
   1152. PJ Martinez Posted: April 05, 2019 at 09:54 PM (#5829117)
Blake Griffin has 44 points -- at the end of the third quarter. He's 9-12 from three.
   1153. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: April 05, 2019 at 10:12 PM (#5829118)
WOJ BOMB

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
Washington is waiving Wesley Johnson, league sources tell ESPN.
   1154. Booey Posted: April 05, 2019 at 10:22 PM (#5829126)
Blake Griffin has 44 points -- at the end of the third quarter. He's 9-12 from three.


And the legendary Grayson Allen has 19 pts in 10 minutes at halftime! 8/8 FG, including 3/3 from deep!
   1155. tshipman Posted: April 05, 2019 at 11:05 PM (#5829138)
Grayson Allen has had a really bad year. Wow.

I thought he was a reach in the second round and it looks like I was too high on him.
   1156. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: April 05, 2019 at 11:34 PM (#5829142)
Hey he's had two good games in a row! But yes, he's been brutal and I think not very good in the G-League either. He shows enough shooting ability that I wouldn't write him off entirely, but I doubt he gets a guaranteed contract after his rookie deal.
   1157. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: April 06, 2019 at 12:23 AM (#5829143)
Trae Young and the Hawks allowed 149 points to the Orlando Magic tonight. Young was -36 in 27 minutes; in the other 21 minutes (admittedly mostly garbage time) the game was even.
   1158. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: April 06, 2019 at 02:00 AM (#5829147)
Don't look now, but after the Clippers lost tonight, there is a pretty good chance the Spurs sneak into the 6 seed. They hold the tiebreak with both LAC and OKC and they finish @Cleveland and home vs Dallas. Sweep those two and they just need one loss by each other team; Thunder have games remaining vs Houston and at Milwaukee on a B2B (plus a road game at Minnesota), and the Clippers play at Golden State and vs Utah. Of course I probably just jinxed it and Collin Sexton will have a career game or something.
   1159. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: April 06, 2019 at 10:33 PM (#5829286)
in honor(?) of the sixers playing the bulls(?), who happen to have timothe luwawu-caberrot, i thought i'd pose a fun(!) question to all of my fellow degenerates in this thread (who don't have me on ignore...yet):

there are 22 active NBA players who played a game for the sixers (so, not including embiid or dario) while sam hinkie was general manager. i will make it somewhat easier by including the initials from the player's name, and that player's current(?) team

LBTR
ICMB
MCWOM
RCMT
DDAH
TFMB
JGOKC
RHPS
SMCH
LRMBAMLAC
TJMP7
JMLAL
NNOKC
JNHR
JONOP
GRDP
ISDP
JSCB
NSCC
ETPT
CWNOP
TYIP


good luck trying to name more than 18 of them before looking the answers up.



also, just a reminder for those who have forgotten from last season: FULL 57i66135 is real...and he's coming.
   1160. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: April 07, 2019 at 03:00 AM (#5829330)
the ones I can get as a Bucks fan, without looking anything up:

ICMB: Isaiah Canaan, even though he only had a 10 day for the Bucks and isn't on the roster
Michael Carter-Williams
Robert Covington
Dwayne Dedmon
Tim Frazier
Jeremi Grant
Richuan Holmes
somebody on the Hornets with SM initials
Luc Richard etc
I'm not sure what P7 means
Javale
Nerlens

I don't know, I'm sure I could come up with a few more in the home stretch here, obviously Okafor is in there, but I'm tired and this isn't that interesting.
   1161. JJ1986 Posted: April 07, 2019 at 08:26 AM (#5829332)
Lorenzo Brown, TJ McConnell, Jah, Ish Smith, Nik Stauskas, Thaddeus Young.
   1162. JJ1986 Posted: April 07, 2019 at 08:31 AM (#5829333)
Is the Bull JaKarr Sampson?
   1163. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: April 07, 2019 at 11:31 AM (#5829347)
I'm not sure what P7 means


Use THE PROCESS of elimination to figure it out
   1164. CFBF is Obsessed with Art Deco Posted: April 07, 2019 at 12:24 PM (#5829352)
They're pretty good.


I like them, but there's not enough orange. Too similar to Vanilla Coke.
   1165. stevegamer Posted: April 07, 2019 at 09:16 PM (#5829463)
LBTR - Brown
ICMB - Canaan
MCWOM - Carter-Williams
RCMT - Covington
DDAH - Dedmon
TFMB - Frazier
JGOKC - Grant
RHPS - Holmes
SMCH - (had to look up, he's a year too early for Hinkie I think)
LRMBAMLAC M'Bah a Moute
TJMP7 - McConell
JMLAL - McGee
NNOKC - Noel
JNHR - (had to look up, didn't realize he was back in the league)
JONOP - Okafor
GRDP - Robinson
ISDP - Smith
JSCB - Sampson
NSCC - Stauskas
ETPT - Turner
CWNOP - Wood
TYIP - Young

Total games played for the 76ers (that's the "7" next to McConnell) by the 2 guys I missed: 13
   1166. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: April 07, 2019 at 11:21 PM (#5829479)
Orange Vanilla Coke Zero is pretty bad.
   1167. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: April 07, 2019 at 11:29 PM (#5829481)
Smch is mack , right?

I thought that chasson randle was under hinkie’s watch, but I guess that was later.
   1168. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: April 08, 2019 at 12:31 AM (#5829488)
Der-K fave Jemerrio Jones had 16 boards tonight, starting at forward at 6'5" for the South Bay Lakers. The Lakers are giving heavy minutes to many of their top GLeague guys, and have now beaten the Clippers and Utah the last two games. Tonight Alex Caruso, Jones, Jonathan Williams and Isaac Bonga played a combined 120 minutes. The other 120 went to KCP, McGee, Muscala, and Moe Wagner.

Lakers fans ofc have mixed feelings about the whole thing.

Note: I am not trying to clown Booey and Cervo here. Their team has had a far better year than mine has, obviously.
   1169. stevegamer Posted: April 08, 2019 at 12:57 AM (#5829489)
Smch is mack , right?


Yes, but per BB-ref, he played under Collins while DiLeo was in charge.

   1170. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: April 08, 2019 at 10:14 AM (#5829523)
SMCH - (had to look up, he's a year too early for Hinkie I think)
Yes, but per BB-ref, he played under Collins while DiLeo was in charge.
yeah...####. that's my fault.
Lakers fans ofc have mixed feelings about the whole thing.
shoulda kept dangelo russell.

...and julius randle.
...and brock lopez.
...and ed davis.
...and lou williams.
...and trevor ariza.
...and david nwaba.
...and ivica zubac.
   1171. jmurph Posted: April 08, 2019 at 10:56 AM (#5829546)
Grayson Allen has had a really bad year. Wow.

I thought he was a reach in the second round and it looks like I was too high on him.

I am never good at knowing who is going to be good, but knowing who is going to be bad seems a lot easier*, so it's baffling to me when things like this happen. How did anyone think this was going to work?

(*Totally acknowledging confirmation bias here, I'm not going to remember all of the ones I miss.)
   1172. Booey Posted: April 08, 2019 at 11:13 AM (#5829548)
The Lakers are giving heavy minutes to many of their top GLeague guys, and have now beaten the Clippers and Utah the last two games. Tonight Alex Caruso, Jones, Jonathan Williams and Isaac Bonga played a combined 120 minutes. The other 120 went to KCP, McGee, Muscala, and Moe Wagner.


Yeah, that was a stupid loss for the Jazz. KCP and McGee deserve credit for playing well, and the Jazz were missing a lot of their depth themselves with Favors, Korver, and Rubio out (plus Neto and of course Exum), but Utah still had Gobert, Mitchell, and Ingles, so that should've easily been enough to win against whoever the Lakers have left of their roster, half of whom I'd never heard of until a week and a half ago when the Jazz played them last. That balding Caruso guy has to rank right up there with Ingles and the goofy looking redhead on the Hawks (Huerter?) as the least "NBA looking" players in the league.

It probably won't matter in the end, what with Denver punting their game against Portland last night, but it would've been nice to have an extra game of breathing room over OKC. Plus 50 wins just feels different than 49, and Utah's final 2 games are vs DEN and @ LAC, so another win isn't a guarantee.

Rockets just need to beat the Thunder tomorrow to lock everything into place.
   1173. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: April 08, 2019 at 12:18 PM (#5829569)
The Athletic did a similar poll to the MLB poll (MVP, coach you'd like to play for, etc.).

Results for, "which team will win the title":

1. Golden State (79.5%)
2. Milwaukee (6.8%)

...
6. Oklahoma City, Clippers, Orlando (1%)
   1174. jmurph Posted: April 08, 2019 at 12:33 PM (#5829583)
6. Oklahoma City, Clippers, Orlando (1%)

It seems correct that those three teams do indeed have the same chances of winning the title.

Good for Orlando and Clifford, by the way. Hopefully Charlotte can pass Detroit (sorry to the Pistons fan(s) here!).
   1175. PJ Martinez Posted: April 08, 2019 at 12:36 PM (#5829586)
10. Which coach, aside from your own, would you want to play for?

(121 votes)

Gregg Popovich (40.9%)
Brad Stevens (10%)
Steve Kerr (7.8%)
Mike D’Antoni (7.4%)
Doc Rivers (7%)
Mike Malone (5.3%)
Quin Snyder (3.3%)
Mike Budenholzer (2.4%)
Kenny Atkinson, David Fizdale (2%)
Terry Stotts, Fred Hoiberg (1.6%)
Alvin Gentry (1.2%)
Dave Joerger, Erik Spoelstra, Rick Carlisle, Brett Brown, Scott Brooks, Phil Jackson, Larry Drew, Dwane Casey (1%)
Steve Clifford (0.5%; split vote)
   1176. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: April 08, 2019 at 01:05 PM (#5829608)
That balding Caruso guy has to rank right up there with Ingles and the goofy looking redhead on the Hawks (Huerter?) as the least "NBA looking" players in the league.

Did you see this play?

---

As someone who never was really a Wade fan but always disliked Pierce more, I found this amusing, for a number of reasons.
   1177. KronicFatigue Posted: April 08, 2019 at 01:56 PM (#5829639)
NCAA thread is dead, so I'll ask here. At halftime of Virgina vs Auburn, Kenny Smith was talking about pace. Apparently, conventional wisdom is that Virginia wants to play at a high pace. However, he said he doesn't care about pace as much number of possessions. And, further to that point, he's looking for Virginia to have more possessions than Auburn. At half time, it was 29-28 possessions, but ideally Virginia needs to be +5 in that stat.

I don't know anything about basketball stats, but um, don't possessions always have to essentially match up? There are only 2 teams, and when one team loses possession, the other gets it. If I win the tip, best I can do is end the half +1. If that first half had a tie up, I can start the 2nd half with the ball, and end with it, which is another +1. Am I missing something?

Also, number of possessions essentially = pace, b/c time is fixed. Right??
   1178. NJ in NJ Posted: April 08, 2019 at 02:00 PM (#5829642)
[1177] The only thing my basketball group chat could come up with at the moment was maybe he was trying to make an NFL style time of possession argument?
   1179. Fourth True Outcome Posted: April 08, 2019 at 02:03 PM (#5829644)
Offensive rebounds are a good way to get extra possessions, though they don't really seem coupled with pace in a direct way.
   1180. nick swisher hygiene Posted: April 08, 2019 at 02:09 PM (#5829648)
You are right; KS is....not even wrong. It’s nonsense.

And I don’t just mean the possession stuff, the other stuff is nonsense too!

Virginia plays literally the slowest pace / tempo in the country, if you count possessions/game.

https://kenpom.com

https://kenpom.com/blog/ratings-glossary/
   1181. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: April 08, 2019 at 02:14 PM (#5829651)
A big rebounding advantage can give one team more possessions than the other.

Edit: RC Colas to FTO
   1182. KronicFatigue Posted: April 08, 2019 at 02:15 PM (#5829652)
1179: wow, I looked up the definition of possession on basketball reference, and it was NOT what I expected:

Poss
Possessions (available since the 1973-74 season in the NBA); the formula for teams is 0.5 * ((Tm FGA + 0.4 * Tm FTA - 1.07 * (Tm ORB / (Tm ORB + Opp DRB)) * (Tm FGA - Tm FG) + Tm TOV) + (Opp FGA + 0.4 * Opp FTA - 1.07 * (Opp ORB / (Opp ORB + Tm DRB)) * (Opp FGA - Opp FG) + Opp TOV)). This formula estimates possessions based on both the team's statistics and their opponent's statistics, then averages them to provide a more stable estimate. Please see the article Calculating Individual Offensive and Defensive Ratings for more information.
   1183. KronicFatigue Posted: April 08, 2019 at 02:16 PM (#5829653)
[1180] It's possible Kenny Smith may have been talking about Auburn and not Virginia. I wasn't paying attention for that part.
   1184. Booey Posted: April 08, 2019 at 02:21 PM (#5829655)
#1176 - No, but that's awesome. He almost posterized Gobert last night too.

If Caruso sidled up to ladies at a bar and said, "Hi, my name is Alex, and I play for the Lakers", would anyone believe him?

Kudos to middle aged rec-league looking players like Caruso and Ingles for keeping the rest of our NBA hopes alive!
   1185. jmurph Posted: April 08, 2019 at 02:32 PM (#5829659)
Shooting possessions is a meaningful thing to discuss, I think.

EDIT: Or honestly just shots.
   1186. sardonic Posted: April 08, 2019 at 03:33 PM (#5829689)
I didn't see the segment, but he could have been using "possessions" colloquially to refer to shots. The two main drivers of a team getting more shots are offensive rebounds and winning turnover battle. Those are two of the four factors that tend to predict wins and losses.
   1187. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: April 08, 2019 at 04:16 PM (#5829705)
this list of MIA's 2006 roster, sorted by minutes played per game in the NBA finals, is utterly fascinating:

Player              Age    MP  PTS  TRB  AST
Dwyane Wade          24  43.5 34.7  7.8  3.8
Antoine Walker       29  36.6 13.8  5.5  2.2
Shaquille ONeal      33  35.2 13.7 10.2  2.8
Jason Williams       30  31.3  8.8  1.8  4.7
James Posey          29  29.5  7.3  6.0  0.3
Udonis Haslem        25  29.2  6.5  6.2  0.3
Alonzo Mourning      35  11.0  4.3  3.2  0.0
Gary Payton          37  22.3  2.7  2.0  2.0
Shandon Anderson     32   7.7  1.5  1.8  0.8
Michael Doleac       28   1.2  0.0  0.0  0.0
Jason Kapono         24   1.5  0.0  0.0  0.0 

   1188. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: April 08, 2019 at 07:47 PM (#5829767)
The first episode of Michael Lewis' new podcast may be of interest to this thread. The show as a whole uses the metaphor of the referee to examine... well, lots of things, but the first episode is specifically about NBA referees.

(Full disclosure: my wife has spent the last year and a half working as a senior producer to launch this podcast, so I can't claim to be entirely neutral in promoting it)
   1189. King Mekong Posted: April 08, 2019 at 08:39 PM (#5829783)
Looks like the roster is sorted by ppg
   1190. King Mekong Posted: April 08, 2019 at 08:42 PM (#5829786)
This Lonnie walker dunk attempt brought a smile to my face
   1191. tshipman Posted: April 09, 2019 at 02:02 AM (#5829827)
shoulda kept dangelo russell.

...and julius randle.
...and brock lopez.
...and ed davis.
...and lou williams.
...and trevor ariza.
...and david nwaba.
...and ivica zubac.


Are we living in an alternate universe where D'Angelo Russell is good?

Or Julius Randle, for that matter?

I swear to god, sometimes people act like defense isn't half the game.

Zubac was bad to dump for no reason, Ed Davis is fine, but is on like his 3rd team after the Lakers, Nwaba is a good guy to have as the 10th guy in your rotation. The Lakers' problem this year was not the details, it was the big picture. Rondo is bad, has been bad for a while, and completely stunk up the Lakers. Injuries were also an issue.
   1192. Hombre Brotani Posted: April 09, 2019 at 02:54 AM (#5829828)
The first episode of Michael Lewis' new podcast may be of interest to this thread.
The show episode was great, and congrats to your wife, IOaWNaB. Everything Michael Lewis does is brilliant.
   1193. jmurph Posted: April 09, 2019 at 09:17 AM (#5829852)
The first episode of Michael Lewis' new podcast may be of interest to this thread.

Was just listening to this on the way in, it's very good so far. As to the content of the podcast, I think I missed Draymond calling Violet Palmer a "f______ b______" sometime in the recent past? Good lord.
   1194. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: April 09, 2019 at 10:39 AM (#5829900)
Super stoked to watch Blake Griffin hobble around tonight as the Pistons fight to the bitter end in a struggle against people wearing the jerseys of the Memphis Grizzlies. A chance at getting swept in the first round is on the line.
   1195. The Good Face Posted: April 09, 2019 at 10:53 AM (#5829909)
If Caruso sidled up to ladies at a bar and said, "Hi, my name is Alex, and I play for the Lakers", would anyone believe him?


Amusingly enough, somebody posted on the Laker's Reddit sub a few months ago about seeing Caruso out on the town one night with a spectacularly beautiful woman on his arm. I suppose the lesson here is that even goofy looking scrub NBA players have no difficulty scoring with the ladies.
   1196. JJ1986 Posted: April 09, 2019 at 11:49 AM (#5829953)
   1197. Moeball Posted: April 09, 2019 at 12:46 PM (#5829979)
Poll of 122 nba players with some interesting results. Their choice for MVP: harden, not Giannis. Most overrated player: tie between Draymond and Westbrook. Personally I think most overrated may be Kyrie?
   1198. NJ in NJ Posted: April 09, 2019 at 01:11 PM (#5829989)
[1196] That got me too. Because I always looked at Wade as a dirty player I didn't think his impending retirement would impact me, but I am sad to see him go. He has been a great ambassador for the game in a lot of ways and I truly admire his parenting/how important being a parent seems to be to him.
   1199. jmurph Posted: April 09, 2019 at 01:13 PM (#5829993)
Most overrated player: tie between Draymond and Westbrook. Personally I think most overrated may be Kyrie?

Kyrie has played like a top 10-12 player since the trade to the Celtics.

Westbrook and Draymond are also very good players, I feel like this is a weird definition of overrated. Shouldn't it apply to truly bad/overpaid players like Wiggins, or fine but wildly overpaid players like John Wall?
   1200. JJ1986 Posted: April 09, 2019 at 01:16 PM (#5829994)
I feel like everyone knocks him, but for me it's DeRozan.
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