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Wednesday, March 01, 2017

OT - March 2017 NBA thread

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of bothered to submit a monthly thread to avoid detracting from what this site is really about:  I dunno, baseball, maybe?  Probably politics, but maybe some baseball, too.

Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: March 01, 2017 at 11:37 AM | 7430 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   5701. aberg Posted: June 13, 2017 at 12:01 PM (#5474974)
A few quick thoughts on the series.

Durant was magnificent. He easily makes shots that other players can't even get. He has found a way to use his alien arms to make him a very unique and effective defender. He got better and better at fitting into the flow of the Warriors offense as the season went on, which should answer any questions about deference and team orientation that came up during his OKC years.

Lebron was every bit as good. He is 32 and still better at going to the basket than any player alive. I don't think you could've asked him to do anything differently or better in this series. With the way his role players played, keeping it close twice and winning another one is quite an accomplishment.

Kyrie had his moments- he is a great shot maker and can break guys down off the dribble beautifully- but he also took a lot off the table. His defense remains outright bad 90% of the time. He loses control of the ball about as often as he sets up a teammate for a shot. He's not the type of player I would want to build around. It also makes me wonder why Love gets so little attention in the offense. Maybe his physical issues have made him less of a contributor, but he was a very efficient scorer at a much higher volume in Minnesota and Cleveland has never really tried to use him that way for more than a few token possessions.

GS really looks unstoppable when their supporting cast gets hot. Draymond did some nice playmaking and Klay got hot here and there, but neither one was at his best in the series. When Iguodala was making threes and/or Livingston was hitting those crafty pullup shots from midrange, it became basically impossible to defend the team. Curry also ran hot and cold. I think Cleveland does a good job of making him work defensively to make it harder for him on offense, but he is always going to get points.

The Warriors get to the line and make threes at such an efficient clip that it's almost impossible to outscore them on a per-shot basis. That means you have to limit turnovers and have a rebounding advantage against them. Cleveland did not do a great job of either with the exception of Game 4. I didn't expect them to do much better absent Tristan Thompson having an otherworldly performance on the glass, but the reality is that there isn't another team that can really match up with the Warriors now.
   5702. jmurph Posted: June 13, 2017 at 12:12 PM (#5474981)
The Warriors get to the line and make threes at such an efficient clip that it's almost impossible to outscore them on a per-shot basis. That means you have to limit turnovers and have a rebounding advantage against them. Cleveland did not do a great job of either with the exception of Game 4. I didn't expect them to do much better absent Tristan Thompson having an otherworldly performance on the glass, but the reality is that there isn't another team that can really match up with the Warriors now.

Which is why I continue to think limiting Tristan Thompson's* minutes worked to Golden State's advantage. On Zach Lowe's podcast before the series Jeff Van Gundy made the point that you have to get additional shots/possessions against the Warriors to have a chance. The Warriors narrowly winning the rebounding advantage was one of the biggest surprises in the series, to me.

*It's possible nothing would have mattered, but I'm definitely with the crowd arguing that Cleveland shouldn't have been trying to out run and gun the Warriors.
   5703. jmurph Posted: June 13, 2017 at 12:13 PM (#5474982)
Man, if LeBron had Durant's opportunities though.

This is fair but they're different players. Creating open deep threes for LeBron isn't as effective a strategy as creating open deep threes for Durant. But yeah, to your point, LeBron didn't get quite as many wide open dunks as Durant got.
   5704. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 13, 2017 at 12:18 PM (#5474985)
@5681:
I say we get started, it takes us awhile to get through the first round.
If we are starting, then I'm ready to trade down from #4.
   5705. I am going to be Frank Posted: June 13, 2017 at 12:21 PM (#5474989)
but just watched a highlight reel of Durant's night and Richard Jefferson appears to be (trying) to guard him on about 75% of the plays

There is video out there where Richard Jefferson is on the ground and you can hear Chris Rock saying in the background to the effect, "stay down you're old."

Here is a link to a video.
   5706. aberg Posted: June 13, 2017 at 12:24 PM (#5474991)
Unclaimed draft teams:

Denver
Atlanta
Miami
OKC
Toronto
Utah
Boston
NO
Houston
Washington

If you were waiting to take a leftover, now is the time to do it. Let's get these wrapped up today. Also, if you were on the fence about participating, just grab one of those teams with only 2nd rounders (NO, HOU, WAS) and take a guy who saw have a good game in the NCAA tournament and/or someone with a funny Estonian name.
   5707. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 13, 2017 at 12:29 PM (#5475000)
@aberg: MHS took BOS.
   5708. aberg Posted: June 13, 2017 at 12:31 PM (#5475002)
@aberg: MHS took BOS.


Thanks. Was going off of the most recent full order post. If there are other claims that aren't on there, I probably missed those too.
   5709. MHS Posted: June 13, 2017 at 12:35 PM (#5475004)
Just to re-iterate someone else can take boston if they prefer and I can take a leftover.
   5710. Booey Posted: June 13, 2017 at 12:45 PM (#5475007)
I don't follow college ball at all, so I was hoping Tom would chime in to make Utah proud. If he's not around, I suppose the honor of representing the Jazz should fall to me, for better or WORSE (emphasis intentional).

1. Boston (MHS)
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
5. Sacramento (smiley)
6. Orlando (Votto)
7. Minnesota (berg)
8. New York (NJ/JC)
9. Dallas (billyshears)
10. Sacramento (smiley)
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)
13. Denver
14. Miami
15. Portland (JJ)
16. Chicago (Dandy)
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)
18. Indiana (King Mekong)
19. Atlanta
20. Portland (JJ)
21. OKC
22. Brooklyn (jmurph)
23. Toronto
24. Utah (Booey)
25. Orlando (Votto)
26. Portland (JJ)
27. Brooklyn (jmurph)
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
29. San Antonio (Quaker)
30. Utah (Booey)

Round 2
31. Atlanta
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
33. Orlando (Votto)
34. Sacramento (smiley)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Chicago (Dandy)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Indiana (King Mekong)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver
50. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
51. Denver
52. Washington
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta
   5711. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 13, 2017 at 01:06 PM (#5475026)
I am willing to take my talent down to South Beach. Sign me up for Miami. Yes, just because I wanted to use that line. Sue me.
   5712. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 13, 2017 at 01:25 PM (#5475036)
Der-K you want to take ATL? For some reason I keep thinking you are an ATL fan.
   5713. Rally Posted: June 13, 2017 at 01:29 PM (#5475039)
Just to get things moving, I'll take Washington.

1. Boston (MHS)
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
5. Sacramento (smiley)
6. Orlando (Votto)
7. Minnesota (berg)
8. New York (NJ/JC)
9. Dallas (billyshears)
10. Sacramento (smiley)
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)
13. Denver
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse)
15. Portland (JJ)
16. Chicago (Dandy)
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)
18. Indiana (King Mekong)
19. Atlanta
20. Portland (JJ)
21. OKC
22. Brooklyn (jmurph)
23. Toronto
24. Utah (Booey)
25. Orlando (Votto)
26. Portland (JJ)
27. Brooklyn (jmurph)
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
29. San Antonio (Quaker)
30. Utah (Booey)

Round 2
31. Atlanta
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
33. Orlando (Votto)
34. Sacramento (smiley)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Chicago (Dandy)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Indiana (King Mekong)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver
50. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
51. Denver
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta
   5714. Stevey Posted: June 13, 2017 at 01:38 PM (#5475046)
Well to be blunt the simple explanation is that Cleveland is not, in fact, the better team. Golden State is better offensively and miles better defensively. They're deeper, both in top-end talent and in role players. LeBron is, of course, still the best player on the planet, so there were definitely times where that advantage asserted itself. And as you point out, Cleveland shot very well in a few games. But a lot of people, here and elsewhere, picked Golden State in 5.


While I don't want to speak for him, what I think a lot of it is, is that Cleveland seemed to be making more difficult shots. That can look more impressive than when the Warriors get a wide open three, or get fast breaks even off of Cavs made baskets. But it's the latter which shows just how much better the Warriors are. All the easy looks the Warriors were getting were because they are more skillful on offense, and the Cavs inability to force tough shots. Meanwhile on the other end, the Warriors defense turned the Cavs offense into a bunch of dribbling around and a lot of bad chucking. Getting yourself an easy shot is a lot more impressive basketball than making a tough one.
   5715. Hombre Brotani Posted: June 13, 2017 at 02:04 PM (#5475073)
Lebron James, in his 210 minutes and 26 seconds (over 42 MPG), had a ± of -7.
The Cavs, in 29 minutes and 34 seconds without him (less than 6 MPG) had a ± of -29.
   5716. aberg Posted: June 13, 2017 at 02:08 PM (#5475077)
Lebron James, in his 210 minutes and 26 seconds (over 42 MPG), had a ± of -7.
The Cavs, in 29 minutes and 34 seconds without him (less than 6 MPG) had a ± of -29.


So the Cavs per 48 +/-, with Lebron, -1.6. Without Lebron -46.4.
   5717. aberg Posted: June 13, 2017 at 02:10 PM (#5475079)
Unclaimed draft teams:

Denver
Atlanta
OKC
Toronto
NO
Houston
   5718. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 13, 2017 at 02:24 PM (#5475089)
@stevegamer @billyshears were you two going to co-GM on DAL or can one of you take DEN or ATL?
   5719. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 13, 2017 at 02:36 PM (#5475095)
@aberg how about unclaimed teams auto-drafting next available player from DX list, so we can get going?
   5720. aberg Posted: June 13, 2017 at 02:40 PM (#5475099)
@aberg how about unclaimed teams auto-drafting next available player from DX list, so we can get going?


Let's give it until the end of the day today and we'll start with BOS on the clock tomorrow morning. That will still give us more than a week to get this done before the real draft.
   5721. MHS Posted: June 13, 2017 at 02:51 PM (#5475113)
It won't be official until tomorrow AM - but I plan to take Fultz, surprise surprise. If anyone wants to knock me over with a trade offer I would consider it.
   5722. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: June 13, 2017 at 02:55 PM (#5475116)
So the Cavs per 48 +/-, with Lebron, -1.6. Without Lebron -46.4.

Didn't Westbrook have some kind of insane playoff +/- this year too? I'm pretty sure OKC outscored the Rockets when he was on the floor.
   5723. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 13, 2017 at 02:58 PM (#5475119)
Votto (ORL) or JJ (POR) are either of you interested in the #4 overall?
   5724. jmurph Posted: June 13, 2017 at 03:10 PM (#5475134)
It probably goes without saying but most Brooklyn Nets are available in the right deal. Lin on an expiring (well, he has an affordable player option in 18-19), Booker on an expiring, Brook Lopez on an expiring, etc. Would be looking for picks, and am willing to take on salary with picks included.
   5725. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: June 13, 2017 at 03:18 PM (#5475144)
I will take the Tronna Hoopball Lizards if no one else wants them.
   5726. jmurph Posted: June 13, 2017 at 04:12 PM (#5475189)
This David West interview is pretty great (sorry if someone already posted it).
   5727. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 13, 2017 at 04:38 PM (#5475214)
getting back to the klay thompson uncanny valley thing, does anyone else have a similar reaction to jj redick?
   5728. Laser Man Posted: June 13, 2017 at 04:54 PM (#5475228)
I'll take the Hawks, unless Der-K wants them. If he does, then I'll take the Nuggets.

1. Boston (MHS)
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
5. Sacramento (smiley)
6. Orlando (Votto)
7. Minnesota (berg)
8. New York (NJ/JC)
9. Dallas (billyshears)
10. Sacramento (smiley)
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)
13. Denver
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse)
15. Portland (JJ)
16. Chicago (Dandy)
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)
18. Indiana (King Mekong)
19. Atlanta (Laser Man)
20. Portland (JJ)
21. OKC
22. Brooklyn (jmurph)
23. Toronto
24. Utah (Booey)
25. Orlando (Votto)
26. Portland (JJ)
27. Brooklyn (jmurph)
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
29. San Antonio (Quaker)
30. Utah (Booey)

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man)
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
33. Orlando (Votto)
34. Sacramento (smiley)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Chicago (Dandy)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Indiana (King Mekong)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver
50. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
51. Denver
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)
   5729. Hombre Brotani Posted: June 13, 2017 at 05:02 PM (#5475230)
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
I'm going to take the obvious pick. I am also absolutely open to offers.
   5730. aberg Posted: June 13, 2017 at 05:20 PM (#5475238)
I usually hate these stupid selective endpoint stats, but this one produced a very impressive list; players with multiple titles and MVPs (descending order of titles):

Russell
Kareem
Jordan
Magic
Duncan
Lebron
Bird
Wilt
and as of last night- Curry

That's a list of 9 guys. The top 8 are probably the consensus top 8 in NBA history in some order. The only exceptions are Robertson (who I'd have below those guys anyway) and Shaq (who was jobbed out of multiple MVPs). Pretty wonderful company for Steph.
   5731. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 13, 2017 at 05:47 PM (#5475255)
I'll take Denver if no one else wants 'em.
   5732. Booey Posted: June 13, 2017 at 06:13 PM (#5475274)
and as of last night- Curry


One thing I couldn't help but notice though; Steph didn't win Finals MVP for either of his titles.

How many all time greats have multiple titles without ever winning Finals MVP? Robinson, for one, but I think it is widely (and wrongly, IMO) seen as a blow to his legacy that he never won anything until he took a backseat to Timmy (though really he was just as good in 1999). If the Warriors don't win any more titles - or if they do and KD keeps taking home the hardware - will it be held against Curry that other guys kept doing the bulk of the heavy lifting on the biggest stage? (not that Steph didn't do his part, of course)
   5733. Hombre Brotani Posted: June 13, 2017 at 06:56 PM (#5475287)
I think it is widely (and wrongly, IMO) seen as a blow to his legacy that he never won anything until he took a backseat to Timmy (though really he was just as good in 1999).
People are always trying to ding great players for not being the Finals MVP or not having the game of their lives in a clinching FInals game. Right now, Twitter's lousy with people claiming Lebron's legacy has been poisoned by this loss. Kobe Bryant shot poorly while winning in 2010 — legacy diminished! Robinson needed Duncan — legacy diminished! Wilt got benched in 1973 — legacy diminished!

People are always looking to light someone on fire. Curry's achievements speak for themselves.
   5734. aberg Posted: June 13, 2017 at 07:08 PM (#5475297)
Steph was the best player for the Warriors in the 15 Finals. Iguodala winning wasn't absurd given the heavy defensive lifting he had to do and how crucial he was to their lineup construction, but he wasn't the best player for the team (and, in turn, Lebron was the best player in the series). Steph didn't win the MVP due to some combination of Iggy being a cute story and Steph playing below his stratospheric regular season numbers. I don't know if that has happened historically.
   5735. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 13, 2017 at 07:25 PM (#5475307)
(and, in turn, Lebron was the best player in the series)

I would love to see the voting rundown for Finals MVP in 2015 and 2017. I'm not surprised the sportswriters were too conservative to award it to LeBron despite the Jerry West precedent, but I am curious if he came close either year.
   5736. King Mekong Posted: June 13, 2017 at 08:01 PM (#5475324)
Paul George for the #2?
   5737. King Mekong Posted: June 13, 2017 at 08:01 PM (#5475325)
This year Durant was unanimous
   5738. PJ Martinez Posted: June 13, 2017 at 08:15 PM (#5475330)
Lowe on the Finals and what teams can do to compete with the Warriors, with comments from Ainge and Morey.
   5739. JJ1986 Posted: June 13, 2017 at 08:59 PM (#5475346)
Mock draft questions from Portland:

Boston, any interest in a deal centered around CJ McCollum and the #1 pick?

Does anyone want Allen Crabbe?

Phoenix, I'm interested in the #4 pick if Jackson is still on the board, but I have no interest in Tatum or Fox. Will have to wait to consider a trade.
   5740. Thok Posted: June 13, 2017 at 09:04 PM (#5475348)
I'll claim OKC.

1. Boston (MHS)
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
5. Sacramento (smiley)
6. Orlando (Votto)
7. Minnesota (berg)
8. New York (NJ/JC)
9. Dallas (billyshears)
10. Sacramento (smiley)
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)
13. Denver
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse)
15. Portland (JJ)
16. Chicago (Dandy)
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)
18. Indiana (King Mekong)
19. Atlanta (Laser Man)
20. Portland (JJ)
21. OKC (Thok)
22. Brooklyn (jmurph)
23. Toronto
24. Utah (Booey)
25. Orlando (Votto)
26. Portland (JJ)
27. Brooklyn (jmurph)
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
29. San Antonio (Quaker)
30. Utah (Booey)

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man)
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
33. Orlando (Votto)
34. Sacramento (smiley)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Chicago (Dandy)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Indiana (King Mekong)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver
50. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
51. Denver
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)
   5741. Hombre Brotani Posted: June 13, 2017 at 09:06 PM (#5475350)
Paul George for the #2?
He'll be here in two years on his own ;-)
   5742. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 13, 2017 at 09:07 PM (#5475351)
TFTIO takes TOR. PASTE takes DEN. Houston and New Orleans still open. First round is ready to roll.

1. Boston (MHS)
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
5. Sacramento (smiley)
6. Orlando (Votto)
7. Minnesota (berg)
8. New York (NJ/JC)
9. Dallas (billyshears)
10. Sacramento (smiley)
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)
13. Denver (PASTE)
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse)
15. Portland (JJ)
16. Chicago (Dandy)
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)
18. Indiana (King Mekong)
19. Atlanta (Laser Man)
20. Portland (JJ)
21. OKC (Thok)
22. Brooklyn (jmurph)
23. Toronto (TFTIO)
24. Utah (Booey)
25. Orlando (Votto)
26. Portland (JJ)
27. Brooklyn (jmurph)
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
29. San Antonio (Quaker)
30. Utah (Booey)

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man)
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
33. Orlando (Votto)
34. Sacramento (smiley)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Chicago (Dandy)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Indiana (King Mekong)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver (PASTE)
50. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
51. Denver (PASTE)
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York (NJ/JC)
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)
   5743. Stevey Posted: June 13, 2017 at 09:21 PM (#5475359)
I would love to see the voting rundown for Finals MVP in 2015 and 2017


7-4 Iguodala-Lebron with no votes for Curry. Durant was unanimous.
   5744. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 13, 2017 at 09:57 PM (#5475383)
I should have taken New Orleans, so as to offer this trade:

NEW ORLEANS GETS:
Isaiah Thomas
Jae Crowder
Jaylen Brown
Marcus Smart
2017 #1 pick
2018 Nets pick (I know, that bit isn't allowed in our mock draft, but what the hell)

BOSTON GETS:
Anthony Davis

I'm extra proud of how ~Hollinger's Analysis~ concludes that, even without the Nets picks involved, the trade is a disaster for Boston and break-even for New Orleans.
   5745. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 13, 2017 at 10:24 PM (#5475396)
@5744/PASTE how did you get the Trade Machine to trade picks? I didn't see that part in the trade.

Edit: oh, right, you said the picks weren't included.
   5746. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 13, 2017 at 10:27 PM (#5475398)
You can't, which is why I listed out the trade in my post, so as to include the picks. :)
   5747. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 13, 2017 at 10:29 PM (#5475399)
Here's what happens when you sub Boogie in for AD and run that trade.

I think we can include future picks, but it's just that the BBTF draft universe resets to IRL draft universe before every BBTF mock.
   5748. MHS Posted: June 13, 2017 at 10:36 PM (#5475405)

Boston, any interest in a deal centered around CJ McCollum and the #1 pick?


No thanks. Great player but probably not a great fit given current roster and salary cap situation.

5744 It would be interesting to see if the Celtics could figure out how to make horford, Bradley Davis team work because that would be all that was left. Now if Gordon committed to the team that would be pretty interesting, though not having a PG in this league is a pretty big issue.

Does anyone have interest in Avery Bradley or Marcus Smart?
   5749. billyshears Posted: June 13, 2017 at 10:58 PM (#5475417)
@stevegamer @billyshears were you two going to co-GM on DAL or can one of you take DEN or ATL?


Totally didn't notice stevegamer asked for Dallas because it wasn't listed on the order. Happy to co-GM or step-aside.
   5750. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 13, 2017 at 11:03 PM (#5475423)
@billyshears do you mind taking HOU or NOP?
   5751. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: June 13, 2017 at 11:04 PM (#5475424)
I am an ATL fan, thanks for thinking of me.
You can have 'em, Laser Man, whatever. I'll take whoever is last, NO or HOU...
   5752. sardonic Posted: June 13, 2017 at 11:17 PM (#5475428)
I'll take GSW and try to buy into the first 8 picks of the second round for $3M. They paid $2.4M for pick 38 last year to draft Patrick McCaw and with Iguodala, Livingston, McGee, Clark and West heading into free agency, Myers and Co would definitely be looking to draft the next, well, McCaw or Ian Clark, or maybe a Festus Ezeli (I'm assuming Damian Jones isn't going to work out at this point. Who? Exactly.)

Feels like ORL (picks 33 and 35) or BOS (pick 37) would be natural partners. Boston already has more lottery tickets than it knows what to do with and two more 2nd rounders (albeit late). Orlando has 4 picks this draft including 2 first rounders, and they're already a young team. First team pick 39 or earlier to respond gets it!
   5753. sardonic Posted: June 13, 2017 at 11:18 PM (#5475429)
1. Boston (MHS)
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
5. Sacramento (smiley)
6. Orlando (Votto)
7. Minnesota (berg)
8. New York (NJ/JC)
9. Dallas (billyshears)
10. Sacramento (smiley)
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)
13. Denver (PASTE)
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse)
15. Portland (JJ)
16. Chicago (Dandy)
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)
18. Indiana (King Mekong)
19. Atlanta (Laser Man)
20. Portland (JJ)
21. OKC (Thok)
22. Brooklyn (jmurph)
23. Toronto (TFTIO)
24. Utah (Booey)
25. Orlando (Votto)
26. Portland (JJ)
27. Brooklyn (jmurph)
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
29. San Antonio (Quaker)
30. Utah (Booey)

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man)
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
33. Orlando (Votto)
34. Sacramento (smiley)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Chicago (Dandy)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Indiana (King Mekong)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver (PASTE)
50. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
51. Denver (PASTE)
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York (NJ/JC)
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)

GSW - sardonic
   5754. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 14, 2017 at 01:15 AM (#5475448)
There's doesn't seem to be a plausible scenario for catching the Warriors by adding talent.

So then what? Tank the next three years in submission to our new alien Warrior overlords? That's what they want, and some teams will do that. Lakers coach Luke Walton said the Warriors' dominance will effect their pursuit of star players.

No, teams will still compete, and this is the bright side, because it's going to force teams to be better.

Not with talent, but with how they play.
link
   5755. Hombre Brotani Posted: June 14, 2017 at 02:02 AM (#5475458)
STIGGLES, who says no?

Lakers => #2 pick, Luol Deng
76ers => #3 pick, Dario Saric, #36 pick
   5756. stevegamer Posted: June 14, 2017 at 02:42 AM (#5475465)
@stevegamer @billyshears were you two going to co-GM on DAL or can one of you take DEN or ATL?


Give me whatever team is unclaimed. Looks like it's just teams with second rounders at this point, I can take either NO or Houston, whichever is unwanted.
   5757. stevegamer Posted: June 14, 2017 at 02:44 AM (#5475468)
Lakers => #2 pick, Luol Deng
76ers => #3 pick, Dario Saric, #36 pick


As a 76ers fan, there's no way I make that deal. I don't think there's a clear division in the top tier of talent, and honestly, it's quite possible that Saric is just as good as the two guys who go 2 & 3. The 76ers do not have a surplus of talent to work with to move up, and they should not be looking to go get a guy like Deng.
   5758. MHS Posted: June 14, 2017 at 08:43 AM (#5475503)
sardonic, I won't sell a second, but would trade you one or two, for a future first. Conceivably, I could never really see the Celtics selling a pick.

Reminder - Avery Bradley or Marcus Smart could be available, looking for an equivalent big, combo forward or pick.

1. Boston (MHS)- Markelle Fultz, PG Washington.
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
5. Sacramento (smiley)
6. Orlando (Votto)
7. Minnesota (berg)
8. New York (NJ/JC)
9. Dallas (billyshears)
10. Sacramento (smiley)
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)
13. Denver (PASTE)
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse)
15. Portland (JJ)
16. Chicago (Dandy)
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)
18. Indiana (King Mekong)
19. Atlanta (Laser Man)
20. Portland (JJ)
21. OKC (Thok)
22. Brooklyn (jmurph)
23. Toronto (TFTIO)
24. Utah (Booey)
25. Orlando (Votto)
26. Portland (JJ)
27. Brooklyn (jmurph)
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
29. San Antonio (Quaker)
30. Utah (Booey)

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man)
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
33. Orlando (Votto)
34. Sacramento (smiley)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Chicago (Dandy)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Indiana (King Mekong)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver (PASTE)
50. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
51. Denver (PASTE)
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York (NJ/JC)
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)
   5759. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 14, 2017 at 09:15 AM (#5475522)
sardonic, I won't sell a second, but would trade you one or two, for a future first. Conceivably, I could never really see the Celtics selling a pick.


One of the low lights of being a Wolves fan was the ridiculous sequence where Khan sold and sold and kept selling draft picks, all basically in order to pay for firing Rambis and paying him off (because hey, why expect the Billionaire owner to pay). Ugh. Since then I get annoyed at the very thought of selling draft picks.

Note: The details have been mercifully dissolved in acid, so I might have a detail or two wrong.
   5760. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 14, 2017 at 09:17 AM (#5475524)
As a 76ers fan, there's no way I make that deal. I don't think there's a clear division in the top tier of talent, and honestly, it's quite possible that Saric is just as good as the two guys who go 2 & 3. The 76ers do not have a surplus of talent to work with to move up, and they should not be looking to go get a guy like Deng.
yeah, i don't have any interest in that, either. saric is too valuable an asset to use in that way, and i also think the process is too far along to take on deng's contract.

   5761. JJ1986 Posted: June 14, 2017 at 09:30 AM (#5475532)
Reminder - Avery Bradley or Marcus Smart could be available, looking for an equivalent big, combo forward or pick.
Any interest in Noah Vonleh?
   5762. Thok Posted: June 14, 2017 at 09:37 AM (#5475537)
Reminder - Avery Bradley or Marcus Smart could be available, looking for an equivalent big, combo forward or pick.


I'm guessing an Avery Bradley for Enes Kanter trade plus some OKC cash won't work (and has some trade legality issues anyways), but it can't hurt me to offer it.
   5763. Quaker Posted: June 14, 2017 at 10:11 AM (#5475566)
Spurs will trade Lamarcus for KLove
   5764. King Mekong Posted: June 14, 2017 at 10:25 AM (#5475589)
5763 - ooh interesting
   5765. King Mekong Posted: June 14, 2017 at 10:29 AM (#5475596)
I've been thinking about 2018 and I believe the spurs are currently projected to have $70 million in space (enough to max out Paul George and resign lots of their free agents) that will be an interesting offseason, and even if the above trade went through they could still offer George the max.

edit: I wouldn't make that trade as the spurs b/c I think lamarcus is a better defender as a small ball center and he's still pretty good at offense.
   5766. spivey Posted: June 14, 2017 at 10:47 AM (#5475621)
I've been thinking about 2018 and I believe the spurs are currently projected to have $70 million in space (enough to max out Paul George and resign lots of their free agents) that will be an interesting offseason, and even if the above trade went through they could still offer George the max.

What's that number based on? Not signing Paul and not resigning Mills/Dedmon/Simmons?

The Spurs have managed to maintain a lot of flexibility most years. They've been very fortunate that many of their best players have taken discounts, and they can get good veterans on the cheap to ring chase. Of course, they deserve some credit for generally finding good cheap guys like Simmons/Dedmon this last year.
   5767. King Mekong Posted: June 14, 2017 at 10:56 AM (#5475635)
5766 Yeah its based on basically just keeping kawhi, with Danny Green and Aldridge cap holds and basically renouncing parker and gasol and not keeping mills/dedmon/simmons.
   5768. jmurph Posted: June 14, 2017 at 10:57 AM (#5475636)
This is my first time participating, and it's a little tricky to do this without doing mock free agency too, right? Running the Fake Nets, I'd like to push Lin to a team in need of a PG, but I can't start harassing Booey's Jazz about this until George Hill officially signs elsewhere.
   5769. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: June 14, 2017 at 10:57 AM (#5475638)
Votto (ORL) or JJ (POR) are either of you interested in the #4 overall?


Yes, but I don't see Orlando and Phoenix as good trade partners. Both have logjams in the frontcourt.

How about the #9 and your choice of Biyombo, Vucevic, or Gordon?

EDIT: #6 pick, not #9.
   5770. MHS Posted: June 14, 2017 at 10:58 AM (#5475640)
Any interest in Noah Vonleh?


Posiibly, but would need you to package it with a 1st. 15 for Bradley, maybe a lesser for a Smart.

I'm guessing an Avery Bradley for Enes Kanter trade plus some OKC cash won't work


No, can't tie up capital. Need to have max cap space this year. Any deal would need to reduce not add salary.
   5771. spivey Posted: June 14, 2017 at 10:59 AM (#5475644)
I think I'd deal Aldridge for Love. I don't think it moves the needle all that much in either direction, though.
   5772. MHS Posted: June 14, 2017 at 11:04 AM (#5475659)
it's a little tricky to do this without doing mock free agency too, right?


I still think we could do a mock free agency, where players go to the highest bidder and in the case of a tie we create a model that incorporates randomness and the typical preferences of free agents.

Something like:
Current team gets a 50% chance to retain - that gets scalled up or down based on place in the standings.
the other 50% (+/-)
Gets split between other suitors scalled by record, prestige and other variables.

We could probably set it up in excel pretty easily.
   5773. King Mekong Posted: June 14, 2017 at 11:05 AM (#5475661)
Aldridge is much better at defense than Love. I hope he sticks around and starts playing center full time after next year.
   5774. Stevey Posted: June 14, 2017 at 11:11 AM (#5475674)
Not sure who is running the Cavs, but that offer would get hung up on pretty quickly.
   5775. spivey Posted: June 14, 2017 at 11:17 AM (#5475681)
Aldridge is much better at defense than Love. I hope he sticks around and starts playing center full time after next year.

Yeah, he is. I don't think Love is *that* bad, though, and I think he's way better offensively and on the glass. I think the Spurs are capable of having a very good team defense regardless of Love vs. Aldridge.
   5776. MHS Posted: June 14, 2017 at 11:24 AM (#5475694)
It's really interesting, I'm not sure how much value either of those guys have around the league - though I would think Love would have a lot more than Aldridge at this point.
   5777. homerwannabee Posted: June 14, 2017 at 11:30 AM (#5475701)
I made a youtube video making a top ten all time list for the NBA based on playoff success, and PER. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1RIUIoMyr4&feature=youtu.be
   5778. King Mekong Posted: June 14, 2017 at 11:40 AM (#5475718)
For 2018-2019 I'd like to see something like

Paul George - 30M (4yrs / ~125M)
LaMarcus - 23M (4yrs / ~100M)
Kawhi - 20.1M Player Option
Green - $13M (3yrs / ~40M)
Murray - 1.5M

Would leave around 20 Million to fill out the rest of the roster so you have to be very careful about dipping into that years cap this year

edit: in that scenario I'd expect them to bring back Parker, Gasol, Anderson, Bertans and have had perhaps Milutinov and Hanga along with this years and next years 1st rounders. I think that's doable for 20M.

edit2: because of Bird rights.
   5779. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: June 14, 2017 at 11:59 AM (#5475730)
I still think we could do a mock free agency, where players go to the highest bidder and in the case of a tie we create a model that incorporates randomness and the typical preferences of free agents.
That's a pretty far cry from the actual behavior of free agents though, no?
   5780. aberg Posted: June 14, 2017 at 12:04 PM (#5475734)
We have two open teams and two "whatever" volunteers so I'm invoking the privilege of the person who typed out the list of picks and assigning Der-K to Houston and stevegamer to NO.

1. Boston (MHS)- Markelle Fultz, PG Washington.
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
5. Sacramento (smiley)
6. Orlando (Votto)
7. Minnesota (berg)
8. New York (NJ/JC)
9. Dallas (billyshears)
10. Sacramento (smiley)
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)
13. Denver (PASTE)
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse)
15. Portland (JJ)
16. Chicago (Dandy)
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)
18. Indiana (King Mekong)
19. Atlanta (Laser Man)
20. Portland (JJ)
21. OKC (Thok)
22. Brooklyn (jmurph)
23. Toronto (TFTIO)
24. Utah (Booey)
25. Orlando (Votto)
26. Portland (JJ)
27. Brooklyn (jmurph)
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
29. San Antonio (Quaker)
30. Utah (Booey)

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man)
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
33. Orlando (Votto)
34. Sacramento (smiley)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Chicago (Dandy)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans (stevegamer)
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston (Der K)
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston (Der K)
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Indiana (King Mekong)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver (PASTE)
50. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
51. Denver (PASTE)
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York (NJ/JC)
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)

We are officially ready to draft! MHS and Boston are on the clock!
   5781. aberg Posted: June 14, 2017 at 12:05 PM (#5475738)
Also, I would be interested in Smart, but I'm not sure what the best Wolves offer would be. Any interest in Muhammad on a S&T or Bjelica?
   5782. MHS Posted: June 14, 2017 at 12:07 PM (#5475741)
You tell me what inputs the behavior of FA - and we can come up with something.
   5783. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: June 14, 2017 at 12:21 PM (#5475750)
I like the approach of letting one dude play God, who has to maintain a spreadsheet of offers, decides for the players (see AG#1F's SBNation baseball thing). It's a lot of work and it's not fast... and thus contrary to some of the spirit of this thing.

Mind you, I bet STIGGLES would be all for high $ landing the dude.

No matter what, given the particulars on NBA free agency, would we need someone to make sure that cap/FA rules are followed? I'd love to, but time is at a premium for me right now.
   5784. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 14, 2017 at 01:07 PM (#5475797)
Free agency: Ugh.

I get the appeal, but that goes WAYYYYYY past my NBA knowledge (honestly drafting is likely past my knowledge frontier). But hey if people want to set it up I will try my best.
   5785. jmurph Posted: June 14, 2017 at 01:14 PM (#5475808)
Free agency: Ugh.

I sort of agree even though I think I started this! I was just trying to make the point that it's hard to make fake trades if we don't know how free agency will go. Lin to Utah, as my hypothetical example, sort of makes sense if they might lose Hill and/or Hayward (Utah fans may of course disagree with that assessment).
   5786. Rally Posted: June 14, 2017 at 01:14 PM (#5475809)
We are officially ready to draft! MHS and Boston are on the clock!


Looks like he's already taken Fultz. Waiting on Hombre to anoint the savior of the Laker franchise.
   5787. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: June 14, 2017 at 02:21 PM (#5475877)
Valanciunas is available. I can't decide if I'm looking at a teardown or patching around Lowry, yet.
   5788. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 14, 2017 at 02:51 PM (#5475914)
Mind you, I bet STIGGLES would be all for high $ landing the dude.
jj redick: 2 years, 102MM
   5789. smileyy Posted: June 14, 2017 at 02:52 PM (#5475915)
All of the Kings except WCS and Skal are on the table if anyone *suppressed guffaw* wants any of them.
   5790. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: June 14, 2017 at 02:52 PM (#5475918)
I guess it goes w/o saying that Carroll is also very available.
   5791. smileyy Posted: June 14, 2017 at 02:56 PM (#5475920)
[5788] I love it. No, seriously. It'll probably blow up in your face, but I love the going all-in.
   5792. jmurph Posted: June 14, 2017 at 03:00 PM (#5475922)
All of the Kings except WCS and Skal are on the table if anyone *suppressed guffaw* wants any of them.

Brooklyn is willing to take on bad contracts in the right deal.
   5793. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 14, 2017 at 03:01 PM (#5475923)
@Votto:
How about the #6 and your choice of Biyombo, Vucevic, or Gordon?

I'm into it. I'll have a look at the players.
   5794. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 14, 2017 at 03:08 PM (#5475926)
I guess it goes w/o saying that Carroll is also very available.
i'd have some interest in carroll.
   5795. MHS Posted: June 14, 2017 at 03:22 PM (#5475936)
Also, I would be interested in Smart, but I'm not sure what the best Wolves offer would be. Any interest in Muhammad on a S&T or Bjelica?


I don't think that would work, to bad Muhammad is a restricted FA. I'd have some interest if he was cost controlled. RFA, seem like a bad deal in general.
   5796. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 14, 2017 at 03:29 PM (#5475941)
@Votto: Gordon is going to be an RFA after next year and NV is UFA in two years. I don't know that either guy alone gets PHO the playoffs in the next two years, but your offer isn't bad. Need to go to a meeting then I'll get back to you, if that's cool.
   5797. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: June 14, 2017 at 03:46 PM (#5475955)
I am having a lot of trouble deciding how I'd like to proceed here. There's an argument that you sign Lowry and try and get Ibaka back and run the same group out again, with tinkering at the margins -- Ujiri has a lot of confidence in his ability to move parts around, but that roster really seems to be bumping up against a future as a three seed, for the most part. Another idea would be let Lowry walk, move DeRozan and Joseph and Valanciunas, and start over entirely. A middle path is tough because they only have about 18MM in cap room to play with, and replacing Lowry's production on 18MM is going to be difficult.

The first thing to do is move Carroll for some cap relief. STIGGLES, whaddya got?
   5798. spivey Posted: June 14, 2017 at 03:47 PM (#5475957)
I saw this elsewhere - Lonzo Ball trolls his dad in a Foot Locker Father's Day commercial. Link
   5799. jmurph Posted: June 14, 2017 at 03:48 PM (#5475958)
replacing Lowry's production on 18MM is going to be difficult.

Allow me to introduce you to Mr. Jeremy Lin.
   5800. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: June 14, 2017 at 03:50 PM (#5475960)
I actually would be comfortable letting Lowry go if I were more confident that I could find some shooting to fit in around the Joseph/DeRozan backcourt.
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