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Wednesday, March 01, 2017

OT - March 2017 NBA thread

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of bothered to submit a monthly thread to avoid detracting from what this site is really about:  I dunno, baseball, maybe?  Probably politics, but maybe some baseball, too.

Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: March 01, 2017 at 11:37 AM | 7430 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   5801. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: June 14, 2017 at 03:53 PM (#5475964)
FLIP.
   5802. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 14, 2017 at 03:57 PM (#5475968)
I am having a lot of trouble deciding how I'd like to proceed here. There's an argument that you sign Lowry and try and get Ibaka back and run the same group out again, with tinkering at the margins -- Ujiri has a lot of confidence in his ability to move parts around, but that roster really seems to be bumping up against a future as a three seed, for the most part. Another idea would be let Lowry walk, move DeRozan and Joseph and Valanciunas, and start over entirely. A middle path is tough because they only have about 18MM in cap room to play with, and replacing Lowry's production on 18MM is going to be difficult.

The first thing to do is move Carroll for some cap relief. STIGGLES, whaddya got?

TOR: gerald henderson, nik stauskas, #36, #50
PHI: demarre carroll, #23

henderson's contract is only guaranteed for 1MM, so if you cut him, you'd clear 10MM of cap room.
   5803. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: June 14, 2017 at 04:02 PM (#5475972)
TOR: gerald henderson, nik stauskas, #36, #50
PHI: demarre carroll, #23

This is intriguing.
   5804. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 14, 2017 at 04:09 PM (#5475974)
@TFTIO didn't Lowry opt-out?
   5805. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: June 14, 2017 at 04:11 PM (#5475976)
5804: Yeah. He's in line for a serious raise, and a combination of his age and his conditioning make me leery of committing 30MM to a 31 yr old, regardless of how good he is.
   5806. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 14, 2017 at 04:34 PM (#5475990)
@TFTIO interested in Brandon Knight? Under contract for a few more years but still under 26 years​ old. I could package my high 2nd-rounder with him.
   5807. aberg Posted: June 14, 2017 at 04:45 PM (#5475999)
Kerr was on Lowe's podcast today. What a great, humble, interesting guy. I hope he finds some relief from the pain his back has caused him. Even though I don't particularly like the Warriors, I'm happy for his accomplishment. At the end of the podcast, he asked Lowe to continue for a few more minutes so he could compliment Lebron.
   5808. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 14, 2017 at 04:52 PM (#5476003)
@TFTIO: Just to clarify my offer, I'm proposing this:

TOR: Brandon Knight, #32
PHO: Carroll, #23
   5809. Quaker Posted: June 14, 2017 at 05:23 PM (#5476031)
Re: my Aldridge for Love offer. My thinking is the Spurs were #1 in defense w/Parker, Pau & Lee playing significant minutes this year. Aldridge is the better defender, but I think they'd still be quite good w/Love (and then hopefully Dedmon back for rim protection w/whatever midlevel they can offer). They had extended stretches where they couldn't score. I think Love is a good enough offensive player to carry bench units w/some efficiency when Kawhi sits, and I think he'd offer more spacing than Lamarcus when they're both on the court.
   5810. Hombre Brotani Posted: June 14, 2017 at 06:49 PM (#5476083)
The Lakers select Lonzo Ball. We are now officially in the Big Baller Business.


1. Boston (MHS)- Markelle Fultz, PG Washington.
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Lonzo Ball, PG UCLA
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
5. Sacramento (smiley)
6. Orlando (Votto)
7. Minnesota (berg)
8. New York (NJ/JC)
9. Dallas (billyshears)
10. Sacramento (smiley)
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)
13. Denver (PASTE)
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse)
15. Portland (JJ)
16. Chicago (Dandy)
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)
18. Indiana (King Mekong)
19. Atlanta (Laser Man)
20. Portland (JJ)
21. OKC (Thok)
22. Brooklyn (jmurph)
23. Toronto (TFTIO)
24. Utah (Booey)
25. Orlando (Votto)
26. Portland (JJ)
27. Brooklyn (jmurph)
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
29. San Antonio (Quaker)
30. Utah (Booey)

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man)
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
33. Orlando (Votto)
34. Sacramento (smiley)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Chicago (Dandy)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Indiana (King Mekong)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver (PASTE)
50. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
51. Denver (PASTE)
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York (NJ/JC)
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)
   5811. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 14, 2017 at 07:00 PM (#5476089)
I don't know who made this, but I get the feeling they don't care much for the Warriors.
   5812. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 14, 2017 at 07:34 PM (#5476106)
Representing Denver, there are two players I want at 13 but if neither is available I would entertain trade-down proposals.
   5813. smileyy Posted: June 14, 2017 at 07:38 PM (#5476109)
Who's gonna have enough WIGGLES for the STIGGLES? The world awaits.
   5814. aberg Posted: June 14, 2017 at 07:50 PM (#5476114)
I have 1-2 players in mind for MN at 7 who might be available. If they're both gone, I would entertain trades down 1-5 spots that would net me a 2nd rounder. I'll be more transparent about it when I have a better idea of who will be on the board.
   5815. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 14, 2017 at 07:53 PM (#5476116)
I think STIGGLES has made it pretty clear he's going to take DeAaron Fox, right?

aberg: I notice that places me just outside your desired range. :) But I'd be willing to talk about a trade up from 13 if your guys are gone.
   5816. . . . . . . Posted: June 14, 2017 at 07:57 PM (#5476118)
A couple of the mocks that came out today have Minnesota taking Markkanen at 7. That would be . . . interesting . . . given who's likely to be left on the board at 7 (probably two of Monk/Smith/Isaac)
   5817. aberg Posted: June 14, 2017 at 08:02 PM (#5476120)
aberg: I notice that places me just outside your desired range. :) But I'd be willing to talk about a trade up from 13 if your guys are gone.


Willing to talk if we get there.
   5818. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 14, 2017 at 08:05 PM (#5476122)
@Votto: I'm a little stuck on the fact that Gordon or NV could walk in a couple years. Would you be able to include #25 with your #6 and one of those guys? I can throw in #54.
   5819. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 14, 2017 at 08:08 PM (#5476123)
A couple of the mocks that came out today have Minnesota taking Markkanen at 7. That would be . . . interesting . . . given who's likely to be left on the board at 7 (probably two of Monk/Smith/Isaac)


I get the feeling aberg likes Markkanen but not enough to take him at 7, hence his willingness to consider trading down just a couple spots. :)

Similarly, there are a couple of guys I would love to get at 19 or 20 who will likely be on the board then, but no way could I pick them at 13.
   5820. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 14, 2017 at 08:35 PM (#5476144)
The Lakers select Lonzo Ball. We are now officially in the Big Baller Business.
bastards.



the sixers take josh jackson, F, kansas

1. Boston (MHS)- Markelle Fultz, PG Washington.
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Lonzo Ball, PG UCLA
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES) - Josh Jackson, F kansassas
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
5. Sacramento (smiley)
6. Orlando (Votto)
7. Minnesota (berg)
8. New York (NJ/JC)
9. Dallas (billyshears)
10. Sacramento (smiley)
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)
13. Denver (PASTE)
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse)
15. Portland (JJ)
16. Chicago (Dandy)
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)
18. Indiana (King Mekong)
19. Atlanta (Laser Man)
20. Portland (JJ)
21. OKC (Thok)
22. Brooklyn (jmurph)
23. Toronto (TFTIO)
24. Utah (Booey)
25. Orlando (Votto)
26. Portland (JJ)
27. Brooklyn (jmurph)
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
29. San Antonio (Quaker)
30. Utah (Booey)

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man)
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
33. Orlando (Votto)
34. Sacramento (smiley)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Chicago (Dandy)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Indiana (King Mekong)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver (PASTE)
50. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
51. Denver (PASTE)
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York (NJ/JC)
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)
   5821. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 14, 2017 at 08:39 PM (#5476149)
I'm on the clock. Waiting for answer from Votto about #4 pick. In the meantime, I'm open to other ideas for trading down from #4.
   5822. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 14, 2017 at 08:46 PM (#5476159)
I think STIGGLES has made it pretty clear he's going to take DeAaron Fox, right?
i have fox and jackson about equal, but jackson's skillset is rarer. there are 20+ good PGs across the league to fill 30 starting slots, but only a handful of legit two way wing creators to fill 60+.

i'll be very happy if the sixers draft fox, but my preference is jackson.


my intention would be to sign a PG in free agency (either jrue holiday or kyle lowry or chris paul or jeff teague or george hill or tyreke evans or patty mills), but in the event that that doesn't happen, i would likely have a starting lineup of simmons/jackson/covington/saric/embiid. the smallest player there would be jackson at 6'8, 210.
   5823. J. Sosa Posted: June 14, 2017 at 08:57 PM (#5476166)
Representing Milwaukee I would like to move up if anyone has interest in trading down for the 17 and the Bucks 2 (48).
   5824. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: June 14, 2017 at 08:57 PM (#5476167)
Knight is an interesting idea but I think he makes too much money to give him first guard off the bench minutes. I like the two seconds from PHI, and the cap savings are very nice. Hmmm. Indecision time.
   5825. Hombre Brotani Posted: June 14, 2017 at 09:29 PM (#5476197)
The Lakers select Lonzo Ball. We are now officially in the Big Baller Business.

bastards.
Simmons and Jackson together, and you still have Saric, all playing basically the same position. Enjoy that.

Of course, you can still make an offer...
   5826. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 14, 2017 at 09:38 PM (#5476198)
Simmons and Jackson together, and you still have Saric, all playing basically the same position. Enjoy that.

Of course, you can still make an offer...
like i said before the lottery, there are no bad outcomes, only good and great ones. this was not one of the great ones, but hey, we still have the unprotected 2018 LAL pick and the unprotected 2019 SAC pick, plus our own picks, an outside shot at OKC's 2020 pick, 3 dozen future 2nd round picks and 50MM in cap room.

the future is bright.


as for an offer, idk, maybe okafor for ingram. i don't think i'd do that, but maybe you'll catch me in a good mood tomorrow.
   5827. MHS Posted: June 14, 2017 at 09:45 PM (#5476207)
What are people thoughts about Blake at this point in his career?

Woj, saying the Celtics are a real threat to sign him has me curious.
   5828. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 14, 2017 at 09:53 PM (#5476211)
Blake: Great player, including being an impact defender. I'd hesitate to give him a max because his health record is so bad.

In Boston's case, wouldn't he and Horford be kind of tripping over each other? I know Horford ostensibly plays the 5, but he provides distressingly little rebounding or rim protection. Blake is better at both those things, but I imagine Blake would play the 4 and rebounding and rim protection would remain a problem.

Now if you can sign Blake and convince he and Horford both to go on the Duncan Plan of only 30-32 minutes a game, try and keep them both healthy and hopefully have them both still performing at their current levels in 2 years when Fultz is ready for prime time and LeBron has (probably) finally begun to decline... could be interesting, and better than any other option Boston has.

In Boston's specific situation I might actually rather have Gordon Hayward, though.

e: If Paul OR Griffin signs elsewhere, the Clippers pretty much have to blow the whole thing to smithereens, right?
   5829. Booey Posted: June 14, 2017 at 10:00 PM (#5476218)
unprotected 2018 LAL pick


Yeah, but Lonzo is leading the Lakers back to the playoffs next season (just ask LaVar), so that pick isn't going to be anything special.
   5830. Booey Posted: June 14, 2017 at 10:05 PM (#5476229)
Hayward is awful and Griffin is so, so much better. Celtics should totally go all in on Blake and remove Hayward from their wish list entirely.


Just in case Danny Ainge reads this thread.
   5831. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: June 14, 2017 at 10:06 PM (#5476230)
So, Houston has a weird roster. Listening to offers for whomever, but those on the block include Ryan Anderson (a frustrating but pretty effective player) and Eric Gordon (who had a very nice year)...
   5832. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 14, 2017 at 10:19 PM (#5476243)
Yeah, but Lonzo is leading the Lakers back to the playoffs next season (just ask LaVar), so that pick isn't going to be anything special.
i will admit that my expectation for that pick is not very high.

otoh, as long as LAL doesn't make the playoffs (hooray for the strength of the western conference), that pick should be a damn good trade chip.

Knight is an interesting idea but I think he makes too much money to give him first guard off the bench minutes. I like the two seconds from PHI, and the cap savings are very nice. Hmmm. Indecision time.
fyi, picking jackson does not impact my offer. it's still on the table.
   5833. Thok Posted: June 14, 2017 at 10:23 PM (#5476244)
@Der-K: Interested in Enes Kanter for Eric Gordon, straight up?

More generally, I'm willing to offer Enes Kanter for anything resembling a reasonable 3 and D wing player.
   5834. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: June 14, 2017 at 10:26 PM (#5476247)
Oriole, I am staying put at #6.
   5835. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 14, 2017 at 10:31 PM (#5476257)
@TFTIO I think you can do deals with both STIGGLES and me. How about your #23 for my #32 and #54, and you can keep Carroll. Then you can have more picks to offer STIGGLES along with Carroll.

If you want to deal Carroll and #23 tgoether, then I'll offer PG Eric Bledsoe. He's only 27 now, he's only under contract for this year and next, and he could start for you at PG in the absence of Lowry at half the price. I'll add my #32 and #54 so you still get two seconds.
   5836. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 14, 2017 at 10:36 PM (#5476265)
PHO selects Jonathan Isaac, F, FSU

1. Boston (MHS)- Markelle Fultz, PG Washington.
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Lonzo Ball, PG UCLA
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES) - Josh Jackson, F Kansas
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic) - Jonathan Isaac, F FSU
5. Sacramento (smiley)
6. Orlando (Votto)
7. Minnesota (berg)
8. New York (NJ/JC)
9. Dallas (billyshears)
10. Sacramento (smiley)
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)
13. Denver (PASTE)
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse)
15. Portland (JJ)
16. Chicago (Dandy)
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)
18. Indiana (King Mekong)
19. Atlanta (Laser Man)
20. Portland (JJ)
21. OKC (Thok)
22. Brooklyn (jmurph)
23. Toronto (TFTIO)
24. Utah (Booey)
25. Orlando (Votto)
26. Portland (JJ)
27. Brooklyn (jmurph)
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
29. San Antonio (Quaker)
30. Utah (Booey)

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man)
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
33. Orlando (Votto)
34. Sacramento (smiley)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Chicago (Dandy)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston (Der-K)
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston (Der-K)
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Indiana (King Mekong)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver (PASTE)
50. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
51. Denver (PASTE)
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York (NJ/JC)
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)
   5837. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 14, 2017 at 10:37 PM (#5476268)
I'm open to trading Isaac, if anyone had their heart set on him. He was #2 on my board after Jackson.

smiley/SAC is on the clock.
   5838. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 14, 2017 at 10:43 PM (#5476280)
If you want to deal Carroll and #23 tgoether, then I'll offer PG Eric Bledsoe. He's only 27 now, he's only under contract for this year and next, and he could start for you at PG in the absence of Lowry at half the price. I'll add my #32 and #54 so you still get two seconds.
i would have a huge interest in bledsoe.

PHX: carroll, #23
TOR: henderson, stauskas, #32, #36, #50
PHI: bledsoe, #54

   5839. tshipman Posted: June 14, 2017 at 10:59 PM (#5476307)
has anyone posted this already?

It's a freaking bizarre story, and I can't possibly believe it ... but it is Woj:

Adrian Wojnarowski: People around NBA feel LeBron James ‘likely’ to join Lakers or Clippers
   5840. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: June 14, 2017 at 11:03 PM (#5476309)
There are no circumstances where I'm interested in Kanter.

Houston's roster is filled with a bunch of solid contracts, by and large - and they're good and a bit old... and they want to get past GS and SA. My M.O. in these deals is to make moves on the margins (which was a perk of doing ATL - I felt like I could adopt something kind of like their mindset) - as much as a response to be in a group thread for a few days rather than over months of negotiating and planning. (Whereas put me in a computer sim and I'll turn over the whole roster.)
I'm not sure that I can go Morey and find a way to get a star to pair with Harden or whatever. To stay good, they need continued decent health and to replace Nene (who had a nice year) - this isn't that tall of an order, given that they have some cap space to work with. Ideally, either Gordon or Williams moves on, they pick up a 3-n-D guy (maybe figure out who replaces Ariza), identify one more ball handler?

Some of the guys I tabbed as value plays in free agency might not be available to the Rockets. To name 2... Like, I like Justin Holiday as a backup two but rumor is that he and Jrue wanna be a package deal -- you're not doing that and messing with Harden/Bev. Patrick Patterson is a nice rotation four who the market will likely undervalue ... but I have to think that he wouldn't go back to the Rox. Etcetera. Still, they have few needs (on a rotation spot basis), it will be hard to tank the offseason. (I think you could argue that they don't need to pass GS, just to be in the next tier in the event bad things happen to the Warriors.)
   5841. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 14, 2017 at 11:14 PM (#5476322)
i would have a huge interest in bledsoe.

PHX: carroll, #23
TOR: henderson, stauskas, #32, #36, #50
PHI: bledsoe, #54

STIGGLES how about spreading the 2nd-rounder love in that deal? :)

PHX: carroll, #23, #39
TOR: henderson, stauskas, #32, #36
PHI: bledsoe, #54

That's a really nice package of savings/2nd-rounders for TOR, and you are getting the best player in the deal.
   5842. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 14, 2017 at 11:19 PM (#5476328)
STIGGLES how about spreading the 2nd-rounder love in that deal? :)
if it gets the deal done, you can keep #54.

PHX: carroll, #23
TOR: henderson, stauskas, #32, #36, #50
PHI: bledsoe
   5843. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 14, 2017 at 11:24 PM (#5476332)

Come on, STIGGLES. You can afford an extra second-rounder to grease the wheels. You're getting Bledsoe for practically nothing. I can keep #32 and you can give #39 to TOR, or you can flip me #39. Whichever works. Either way, I'll leave #54 in the deal for you to keep or send to TOR.

You could give up all your 2nd-rounders and still win this trade.

PHX: carroll, #23
TOR: henderson, stauskas, #36 and whatever other picks PHI wants to add
PHI: bledsoe, #54

OR

PHX: carroll, #23, #39
TOR: henderson, stauskas, #32 and whatever other picks PHI wants to add
PHI: bledsoe, #54
   5844. tshipman Posted: June 14, 2017 at 11:30 PM (#5476335)
PHX: carroll, #23, #39
TOR: henderson, stauskas, #32, #36
PHI: bledsoe, #54


That's a terrible deal for Phoenix.
   5845. stevegamer Posted: June 14, 2017 at 11:35 PM (#5476342)
PHX: carroll, #23, #39
TOR: henderson, stauskas, #32, #36
PHI: bledsoe, #54

That's a terrible deal for Phoenix.


Of course, somebody has to say no with deals involving Philly. ;)

   5846. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 14, 2017 at 11:44 PM (#5476346)
That's a terrible deal for Phoenix.

My deals get criticized every year. I guess you object to me adding the salary of Carroll (at his age), but he is still a useful player, and I'll never be able to unload Knight. Would I rather have better picks? Sure. But Carroll+1st+2nd coming back for Bledsoe is better than #23 plus a bunch of low/mid-second-rounders.

Besides, the odds of this deal even happening are low. Criticize me after it gets done. ;)
   5847. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 14, 2017 at 11:56 PM (#5476353)
Of course, somebody has to say no with deals involving Philly. ;)

I think it's going to be STIGGLES saying no, this time. Those second-rounders are gold, you know. :D
   5848. spivey Posted: June 14, 2017 at 11:58 PM (#5476355)
I normally stay out of the draft stuff, but there is some serious undervaluing of Bledsoe here.
   5849. stevegamer Posted: June 15, 2017 at 12:00 AM (#5476357)
New Orleans has little on the roster under contract that I think would interest folks outside of big men. Having 3 guys who play solely center, as well as Anthony Davis is too many, and too much salary.

If anyone has interest in one of Omer Asik & Alexis Ajinca, send me an offer.

Cousins could be available if the fit and offer is right, but I think the Pelicans would want to give the Boogie - Unibrow combination a full year to see how they can jell.
   5850. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 15, 2017 at 12:04 AM (#5476360)
That's a terrible deal for Phoenix.
I normally stay out of the draft stuff, but there is some serious undervaluing of Bledsoe here.
Cool. Enlighten me.

   5851. stevegamer Posted: June 15, 2017 at 12:14 AM (#5476362)
I'll never be able to unload Knight.


Oriole, if unloading Knight is your goal, we may be able to work something out, so you can keep Bledsoe if you prefer him.

Any interest in Asik for Knight, straight up? They are signed for same number of years, but Knight makes more. Suns have no bigs under contract for next year, besides Chandler, and he's been gimpy. Pelicans have too many bigs unsder contract, and could use a guard.

   5852. spivey Posted: June 15, 2017 at 12:19 AM (#5476363)
Well, the key bullet points are:

* Bledsoe is quite good. The best or second best player on Phoenix.
* Carroll is old and was below average this year. He's trending towards replacement level wing.
* What log jam at PG does Phoenix have? You're trying to get Brandon Knight minutes? The guy that's so shitty you said yourself is untradeable? Yeah, he was good for like 50 games for Milwaukee. That clearly looks like an aberration.
* I just don't think the #23 pick is that valuable. You look at the guys drafted around there and there's some random good ones, some stiffs, but a lot of them are just rotation pieces.
   5853. smileyy Posted: June 15, 2017 at 12:23 AM (#5476364)
Sacramento greedily snaps up De'Aaron Fox. He's the only guy I really wanted what with being "set" at the 4/5, and not really believing in Jayson Tatum.

That puts Orlando and Votto on the clock.

1. Boston (MHS)- Markelle Fultz, PG Washington.
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Lonzo Ball, PG UCLA
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES) - Josh Jackson, F Kansas
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic) - Jonathan Isaac, F FSU
5. Sacramento (smiley) - De'Aaron Fox, Kentucky
6. Orlando (Votto)
7. Minnesota (berg)
8. New York (NJ/JC)
9. Dallas (billyshears)
10. Sacramento (smiley)
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)
13. Denver (PASTE)
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse)
15. Portland (JJ)
16. Chicago (Dandy)
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)
18. Indiana (King Mekong)
19. Atlanta (Laser Man)
20. Portland (JJ)
21. OKC (Thok)
22. Brooklyn (jmurph)
23. Toronto (TFTIO)
24. Utah (Booey)
25. Orlando (Votto)
26. Portland (JJ)
27. Brooklyn (jmurph)
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
29. San Antonio (Quaker)
30. Utah (Booey)

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man)
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
33. Orlando (Votto)
34. Sacramento (smiley)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Chicago (Dandy)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston (Der-K)
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston (Der-K)
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Indiana (King Mekong)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver (PASTE)
50. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
51. Denver (PASTE)
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York (NJ/JC)
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)

   5854. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 15, 2017 at 12:26 AM (#5476365)
@stevegamer I'm listening to a trade for Knight. But, Alex Len is an RFA, so I'd have a chance to match, and he's younger then Asik, who is also gimpy. :) I also have Bender sitting around.


   5855. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 15, 2017 at 12:44 AM (#5476370)
Come on, STIGGLES. You can afford an extra second-rounder to grease the wheels. You're getting Bledsoe for practically nothing. I can keep #32 and you can give #39 to TOR, or you can flip me #39. Whichever works. Either way, I'll leave #54 in the deal for you to keep or send to TOR.

TFTIO (TOR): let me know what works for you.
I normally stay out of the draft stuff, but there is some serious undervaluing of Bledsoe here.

does anyone think PHX will be competitive again before bledsoe (who will be 28 this year) has passed his prime?

no? okay then, so it makes some sense for PHX to trade him for the best offer on the table. whether this offer is as good as it gets, ymmv.

in the real world, the best time to trade bledsoe is probably a week into free agency, when some desperate wannabe contender panics after george hill decides he'd prefer to live in milwaukee. in this exercise, that's not really an option.

future picks would also be a factor in the real world, but that's not as attractive an option here.

another factor limiting bledsoe's value both here and ~here~ is that most competitive teams already have a good PG, and non-competitive teams have little reason to break the bank for him.

another additional factor is that teams like MIN, DEN and ORL who might see bledsoe as an upgrade have also recently used high draft picks on PGs and may not be willing to write those picks off as sunk costs.

and another additional factor is that, while bledsoe would be an upgrade over guys like rubio, schroder and rondo, it's questionable whether MIN/CHI/ATL see that as an upgrade worth pursuing, let alone paying a premium for.


if you can tell, i've thought a lot about bledsoe's situation over the last ~18 months.
   5856. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 15, 2017 at 01:00 AM (#5476375)
godddamnit:
@ramonashelburne
Lonzo Ball's 2nd workout with the Lakers will be at an undisclosed location on Fri. He wants them to see his work ethic& training methods
   5857. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: June 15, 2017 at 01:43 AM (#5476381)
After six years as a special consultant, Jerry West is leaving the Golden State Warriors to take a similar job with the Los Angeles Clippers, SI.com has learned


Mistake by the Lakers FO, unless there is something major going unreported.
   5858. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: June 15, 2017 at 01:49 AM (#5476382)
Adrian Wojnarowski: People around NBA feel LeBron James ‘likely’ to join Lakers or Clippers


If Anthony goes to the Clippers, I could maybemaybemaybe see James doing that. Those are the two Beijing/Banana Boat Bros he has not won with, and James has won one for Cleveland. James to the Lakers makes no sense at all, from any angle.
   5859. Alex meets the threshold for granular review Posted: June 15, 2017 at 01:51 AM (#5476384)
A graphical representation of how really, really good at basketball LeBron James is.
   5860. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: June 15, 2017 at 07:01 AM (#5476394)
STIGGLES, Oriole, let's get this done. I'll need two #2, in addition to the cap relief.
   5861. JJ1986 Posted: June 15, 2017 at 07:05 AM (#5476395)
Phoenix moving up 9 spots to take on Carroll (who I think has negative value) seems almost fair on its own.
   5862. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: June 15, 2017 at 07:35 AM (#5476399)
Orlando happily takes Jayson Tatum. The Magic were #29 in shooting, #29 in 3-point shooting, #27 in scoring, and #29 in points per possession. Any guy that can score 16 a game right out of the box will help.


1. Boston (MHS)- Markelle Fultz, PG Washington.
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Lonzo Ball, PG UCLA
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES) - Josh Jackson, F Kansas
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic) - Jonathan Isaac, F FSU
5. Sacramento (smiley) - De'Aaron Fox, Kentucky
6. Orlando (Votto) - Jayson Tatum, Duke
7. Minnesota (berg)
8. New York (NJ/JC)
9. Dallas (billyshears)
10. Sacramento (smiley)
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)
13. Denver (PASTE)
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse)
15. Portland (JJ)
16. Chicago (Dandy)
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)
18. Indiana (King Mekong)
19. Atlanta (Laser Man)
20. Portland (JJ)
21. OKC (Thok)
22. Brooklyn (jmurph)
23. Toronto (TFTIO)
24. Utah (Booey)
25. Orlando (Votto)
26. Portland (JJ)
27. Brooklyn (jmurph)
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
29. San Antonio (Quaker)
30. Utah (Booey)

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man)
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
33. Orlando (Votto)
34. Sacramento (smiley)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Chicago (Dandy)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston (Der-K)
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston (Der-K)
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Indiana (King Mekong)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver (PASTE)
50. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
51. Denver (PASTE)
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York (NJ/JC)
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)
   5863. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: June 15, 2017 at 08:00 AM (#5476403)
I'm not running the Bucks in this draft but as a fan IRL, I would want them to get involved in any Bledsoe trade negotiations. They need a guard and it doesn't seem like there'll be any good ones sitting there at #17.

Really I'm in favor of anything that helps ensure they don't give Tony Snell $10 million+ this off-season.
   5864. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: June 15, 2017 at 08:20 AM (#5476411)
No one would give up anything good for the right to pay Andre Drummond a lot of money, right?
   5865. J. Sosa Posted: June 15, 2017 at 08:47 AM (#5476428)
re: 5863

Shhh. I'm enjoying watching Stiggles work his magic. IRL, yes, if Bledsoe is going for a contract and a pick I'd be all over that with the 17 even though I would have doubts as to the fit with Bledsoe.

As for Snell, I think there is indeed going to be a lot of sticker shock but he fits well into the team. What some guys are getting paid now boggles my mind.
   5866. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 15, 2017 at 08:52 AM (#5476435)
STIGGLES/TFTIO I've been talked out of it. I don't want Carroll. If I can somehow get another 1st-round pick in the deal instead of Carroll, then I'm back in with Bledsoe. Otherwise, it'll have to be Brandon Knight instead of Bledsoe.
   5867. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: June 15, 2017 at 09:22 AM (#5476452)
STIGGLES, still interested in Carroll?
   5868. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 15, 2017 at 09:55 AM (#5476496)
STIGGLES, still interested in Carroll?
i'm good with the original offer if you are.

TOR: gerald henderson, nik stauskas, #36, #50
PHI: demarre carroll, #23
   5869. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 15, 2017 at 09:59 AM (#5476502)
Sosa: Middleton and #17 for Bledsoe?
   5870. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: June 15, 2017 at 10:03 AM (#5476504)

TOR: gerald henderson, nik stauskas, #36, #50
PHI: demarre carroll, #23

DONE.

1. Boston (MHS)- Markelle Fultz, PG Washington.
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Lonzo Ball, PG UCLA
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES) - Josh Jackson, F Kansas
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic) - Jonathan Isaac, F FSU
5. Sacramento (smiley) - De'Aaron Fox, Kentucky
6. Orlando (Votto) - Jayson Tatum, Duke
7. Minnesota (berg)
8. New York (NJ/JC)
9. Dallas (billyshears)
10. Sacramento (smiley)
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)
13. Denver (PASTE)
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse)
15. Portland (JJ)
16. Chicago (Dandy)
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)
18. Indiana (King Mekong)
19. Atlanta (Laser Man)
20. Portland (JJ)
21. OKC (Thok)
22. Brooklyn (jmurph)
23. Philadelphia (via Toronto) (STIGGLES)
24. Utah (Booey)
25. Orlando (Votto)
26. Portland (JJ)
27. Brooklyn (jmurph)
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
29. San Antonio (Quaker)
30. Utah (Booey)

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man)
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
33. Orlando (Votto)
34. Sacramento (smiley)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Chicago (Dandy)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston (Der-K)
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston (Der-K)
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Indiana (King Mekong)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver (PASTE)
50. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
51. Denver (PASTE)
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York (NJ/JC)
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)
   5871. King Mekong Posted: June 15, 2017 at 10:07 AM (#5476511)
Paul George is still available if you want to accelerate your rebuild STIGGLES
   5872. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: June 15, 2017 at 10:34 AM (#5476531)
Jonas Valanciunas, also available. I will include a sweetener, if anybody has interest.
   5873. J. Sosa Posted: June 15, 2017 at 10:39 AM (#5476538)
re: 5869

I'm not super interested in Bledsoe, it would only have been if the parameters were similar to those of the other deal, but I doubt you'd be interested in a slightly used John Henson for example.

But I'm open to offers from anyone on anyone not named Giannis, Khris, or Malcom.

Edit to add: To clarify, I would be interested in something like a negative contract plus the 17 for Bledsoe. But I don't think the rosters match up very well for a trade.
   5874. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: June 15, 2017 at 11:21 AM (#5476571)
It's a freaking bizarre story, and I can't possibly believe it ... but it is Woj:

Adrian Wojnarowski: People around NBA feel LeBron James ‘likely’ to join Lakers or Clippers


You have to remember that Woj has always been off/wrong/on the outside with LeBron. Remember this?
   5875. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 15, 2017 at 11:25 AM (#5476575)
Paul George is still available if you want to accelerate your rebuild STIGGLES

you know what? screw it. i'm betting on embiid.

can i get paul george without losing any of simmons/embiid/saric/covington/holmes/jackson/2018 LAL #1/2019 SAC #1?
   5876. MHS Posted: June 15, 2017 at 11:49 AM (#5476594)

you know what? screw it. i'm betting on embiid.

can i get paul george without losing any of simmons/embiid/saric/covington/holmes/jackson/2018 LAL #1/2019 SAC #1?


If the price is that low, the Celtics would be interested possibly.

   5877. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: June 15, 2017 at 11:49 AM (#5476596)
Everyone on the Bulls is available, including dominant playoff performer Rajon Rondo. Before making any offer for Jimmy Butler, ask yourself if Danny Ainge would consider making such an offer. If the answer is yes, it's probably not worth your time. Robin Lopez and Bobby Portis are more readily obtainable.

JJ, are you interested in clearing up Portland's big man glut and upgrading the defense? How about Robin Lopez and #38 for Meyers Leonard, Ed Davis, and #15?
   5878. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: June 15, 2017 at 12:12 PM (#5476624)
I'm not in the draft, but I too would take Paul George for free.
   5879. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 15, 2017 at 12:29 PM (#5476643)
just gonna point out 2 things. feel free to disagree:

1: paul george is only under contract for 1 year and it's widely assumed that he's determined to sign with LAL when he hits free agency. it doesn't make much sense for anyone (LAL included) to give up significant future value under those circumstances.

2: most players who are as good as paul george do not get traded, and those who do get traded are usually traded under similar circumstances and for underwhelming returns*.



*though there are a few notable exceptions.
   5880. aberg Posted: June 15, 2017 at 12:29 PM (#5476644)
Are any of the teams in the few spots after me interested in trading up? A second rounder would get it done.

Smiley- 10 and 34 for 7?

   5881. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 15, 2017 at 12:34 PM (#5476648)
I would be interested, but all I can do is 13 and 49 and I strongly suspect the guy you want won't be there at 13. But consider it an offer in case I'm mistaken :)
   5882. aberg Posted: June 15, 2017 at 12:48 PM (#5476665)
PASTE- 49 probably isn't enough to move down 6 slots, but if you'd include Harris or Barton instead of the 2nd, I'd be interested. Would entertain adding something to my offer too.
   5883. King Mekong Posted: June 15, 2017 at 12:55 PM (#5476680)
I was looking for something close to what the kings got for boogie. Some something centered around saric and one of the future unprotected picks would get the talks started
   5884. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 15, 2017 at 12:56 PM (#5476681)
I thought about that, but it's the same problem in reverse: too much to give up to move up 6 spots. Harris is only 22 and already about as good as people hope Malik Monk will be. And it doesn't seem like the Wolves have any players of modest (rather than high or zero) value to balance it either way. I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise though.
   5885. aberg Posted: June 15, 2017 at 01:03 PM (#5476689)
it doesn't seem like the Wolves have any players of modest (rather than high or zero) value to balance it either way


The options would be Jones or Bjelica.

Jones is a solid backup PG on a rookie deal (~$2m) for the next 2 years. He was much better than Dunn last year, but I think the Wolves owe it to themselves to give Dunn more of a chance to develop, so I'm open to clearing those minutes. Would be a very reliable caddy for Mudiay if the team is still dedicated to trying him. He's actually not unlike Jameer Nelson in style of play.

Belly is a playmaking 4 and a solid rebounder signed for $3.9m. You probably don't want to start him, but he'd fit nicely in Denver's rotation of combo forwards.

So I guess the most reasonable offer would be 7 + Jones for 13 + Harris. Does that work?
   5886. billyshears Posted: June 15, 2017 at 01:05 PM (#5476690)
Everybody on Dallas is available, by the way. Think we are looking at a total rebuild.
   5887. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: June 15, 2017 at 01:13 PM (#5476700)
paul george is only under contract for 1 year and it's widely assumed that he's determined to sign with LAL when he hits free agency. it doesn't make much sense for anyone (LAL included) to give up significant future value under those circumstances.

The problem with taking championship or bust to the literal extreme puts you here. The 2017-2018 season is going to happen, and Paul George's performance will have a significant impact and have significant value to some team. He has a ton of value to Indy - even if he is going to leave, and that's still a big IF - or to a team that would acquire him. If the Lakers want him and think he's going to come in FA, then it does make sense for them play hard ball. If another team thinks they can convince him to stay after they get there, then they can pay that price.

That doesn't change what's happened in previous cases or your overall point. It doesn't mean that just because because he's a FA in a year that Indy should give him away for nothing, which is essentially what you're offering.
   5888. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 15, 2017 at 01:18 PM (#5476708)
Still feels too light to give Harris up for, aberg. I might be willing to part with Barton along those lines.

Unfortunately I'll be tied up at work for the next ~2 hours. I can dedicate more time to a credible counteroffer then but have to say no to that proposal for right now, and don't want to hold the draft up.
   5889. aberg Posted: June 15, 2017 at 01:28 PM (#5476720)
Still feels too light to give Harris up for, aberg. I might be willing to part with Barton along those lines.


Fair enough.

I'm just going to go ahead and draft Lauri Markkanen. I think he could become a useful complement to Towns and Dieng in the frontcourt, especially if the shot extends to NBA 3 range. I don't have a problem taking him at this point. Love the size and shooting. Like the rebounding and skill level. There was someone I liked almost as much who I think will be available in a few picks, so I figured I'd see if I could pick up an extra asset, but I think Markkanen is the best guy on the board here and a solid fit. Ultimately, Isaac is the guy I'm hoping gets here in the real draft, but we shall see.

1. Boston (MHS)- Markelle Fultz, PG Washington.
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Lonzo Ball, PG UCLA
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES) - Josh Jackson, F Kansas
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic) - Jonathan Isaac, F FSU
5. Sacramento (smiley) - De'Aaron Fox, Kentucky
6. Orlando (Votto) - Jayson Tatum, Duke
7. Minnesota (berg) - Lauri Markkanen, F Arizona
8. New York (NJ/JC)
9. Dallas (billyshears)
10. Sacramento (smiley)
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)
13. Denver (PASTE)
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse)
15. Portland (JJ)
16. Chicago (Dandy)
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)
18. Indiana (King Mekong)
19. Atlanta (Laser Man)
20. Portland (JJ)
21. OKC (Thok)
22. Brooklyn (jmurph)
23. Philadelphia (via Toronto) (STIGGLES)
24. Utah (Booey)
25. Orlando (Votto)
26. Portland (JJ)
27. Brooklyn (jmurph)
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
29. San Antonio (Quaker)
30. Utah (Booey)

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man)
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
33. Orlando (Votto)
34. Sacramento (smiley)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Chicago (Dandy)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston (Der-K)
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston (Der-K)
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Indiana (King Mekong)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver (PASTE)
50. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
51. Denver (PASTE)
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York (NJ/JC)
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)
   5890. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: June 15, 2017 at 01:45 PM (#5476740)
paul george is only under contract for 1 year and it's widely assumed that he's determined to sign with LAL when he hits free agency.

As I noted, it was also widely assumed that Dwight Howard would stay here. My guess is that all things being equal, George would like to be a Laker. But all things will not be equal, so we will see.

From the fun with FA and social media dept: Gordon Hayward's wife posted an Instagram pic of herself holding one of their toddlers, who was was wearing a "GO GREEN" shirt with a shamrock on it. At about the same time, Al Horford and Isaiah Thomas started following Hayward on Twitter.
   5891. MHS Posted: June 15, 2017 at 01:46 PM (#5476743)
The problem with taking championship or bust to the literal extreme puts you here. The 2017-2018 season is going to happen, and Paul George's performance will have a significant impact and have significant value to some team.


I'm going to defend Stiggly wiggly on this one.

The championship or must mentality has nothing to do with it.

A player's value to a team is is the sum of Xy+O

where is X is season and y is the number of seasons under control.
If a player is under control for 3 seasons it is X1+X2+X3+O
O is the value future seasons beyond the current commitment multiplied by the probability of them staying.

The value for George is low because O is perceived to be low, and their is only X1.

The thing about George is the O is really complicated.

O might be higher for Pacers than other teams if he gets all NBA.
O might be higher for good teams than bad teams.
O might be highest for Lakers.

We don't really know any of this.

George's value could be relatively small or one of the 20 most valuable assets in the league. It's damn near impossible to figure out. Assuming everyone values X the same... which is unlikely in and of itself.






   5892. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: June 15, 2017 at 01:51 PM (#5476749)
you know what? screw it. i'm betting on embiid.


You can pretty much stop posting about the 76ers until 2020 or so now that you have said this.
   5893. Booey Posted: June 15, 2017 at 01:58 PM (#5476766)
From the fun with FA and social media dept: Gordon Hayward's wife posted an Instagram pic of herself holding one of their toddlers, who was was wearing a "GO GREEN" shirt with a shamrock on it. At about the same time, Al Horford and Isaiah Thomas started following Hayward on Twitter.


Yeah, I saw that. I also looked up Hayward's Wiki page about a week ago and it said he plays for the Miami Heat after signing as a FA in the 2017 offseason. Guess an overzealous fan hacked it, or something. Now it's back to saying he currently plays for the Jazz.

Gut feeling, I think he's gone. And Hill too. The supermax deal Hayward missed out on by not making an All NBA team was probably Utah's last hope. I'd love to be wrong, obviously.
   5894. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 15, 2017 at 02:01 PM (#5476772)
I was looking for something close to what the kings got for boogie. Some something centered around saric and one of the future unprotected picks would get the talks started

that's probably a fair price, but i'm not ready to pay that yet.

As I noted, it was also widely assumed that Dwight Howard would stay here. My guess is that all things being equal, George would like to be a Laker. But all things will not be equal, so we will see.
wasn't the howard/LAL separation reasonably mutual? LAL might have been willing to keep him, but i don't remember them putting the full court press on to do it. my memory might be hazy, but wasn't he more likely to sign with LAL before he was traded there.
   5895. Hombre Brotani Posted: June 15, 2017 at 02:10 PM (#5476779)
Gut feeling, I think he's gone.
I feel bad for Jazz fans. You guys really had something going on there.
   5896. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: June 15, 2017 at 02:10 PM (#5476780)
wasn't the howard/LAL separation reasonably mutual?


No. They offered him a max and made a big pitch, but he couldn't stand D'Antoni and Bryant, and didn't get along with either Gasol or Nash, either. Beyond that, of course, like basically every ASG-level guy changing teams, he wanted to be on a better team with a multi-year window, and the perception at the time was that Harden and Howard could anchor a serious title contender. Throw in the CA/TX tax differences, which Howard actually mentioned in a couple of interviews post-signing, and it was easy to see it coming long before it happened. But the Lakers would have absolutely kept Howard on a max deal. All he had to do was sign it.
   5897. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 15, 2017 at 02:16 PM (#5476782)
aberg, I agree 100% that Markkanen is the right pick for the Wolves even at #7, and would have played it exactly the way you did.

If anyone 8-12 missed out on the guy you want and you feel like scooping up a second rounder to move down a few spots, my offer of 13 and 46 stands.
   5898. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 15, 2017 at 02:16 PM (#5476783)
That doesn't change what's happened in previous cases or your overall point. It doesn't mean that just because because he's a FA in a year that Indy should give him away for nothing, which is essentially what you're offering.
'nothing' is a bit harsh.

i can still offer okafor, luwawu, korkmaz, mcconnell, anderson, #23 and every 2nd round pick in 2026. that's 5 recent/current 1st round picks and a competent young PG for IND to pick and choose from.


i generally agree with what you're saying, i mean, i did just live through the nerlens noel saga. teams that try to trade players who are expected to pursue other options in free agency are generally damned if they do, damned if they don't.
   5899. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: June 15, 2017 at 02:16 PM (#5476784)
Gut feeling, I think he's gone.


I don't think so, but I obviously have no evidence or knowledge. If Utah were notably worse as a team than Boston is, then yeah. As it is, I think he will stay in Utah. Obvious caveats are whether he buys into the idea that playing in the same conference as Golden State is something to be avoided if at all possible, and how he feels about Brad Stevens. I am not buying the Miami rumors. Utah is a demonstrably positive situation for Hayward, and it is hard for me to see how changing teams would tangibly improve things for him.
   5900. aberg Posted: June 15, 2017 at 02:19 PM (#5476788)
i can still offer okafor, luwawu, korkmaz, mcconnell, anderson, #23 and every 2nd round pick in 2026. that's 5 recent/current 1st round picks and a competent young PG for IND to pick and choose from.


Those guys might not be the stars of the team, but they were certainly role players on the team that won 58 games. It just took them 3 seasons to do it.
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