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Wednesday, March 01, 2017

OT - March 2017 NBA thread

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of bothered to submit a monthly thread to avoid detracting from what this site is really about:  I dunno, baseball, maybe?  Probably politics, but maybe some baseball, too.

Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: March 01, 2017 at 11:37 AM | 7430 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   6101. jmurph Posted: June 16, 2017 at 05:40 PM (#5477866)
Now the word is this is part of clearing max space. Which is...uninspiring.
   6102. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 16, 2017 at 05:40 PM (#5477867)
It'll be pretty funny if Ainge can get two or three future first round picks from the catastrophically mismanaged Kings and just keep the gravy train rollin' on into the 2020s.
   6103. jmurph Posted: June 16, 2017 at 05:41 PM (#5477868)
I'd be fine with 1 to 3. Pick 1 to 5/10 (Kings) would be a bummer. Unless it's part of some larger deal.
   6104. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 16, 2017 at 05:41 PM (#5477869)
Current mock draft status for the new page:

1. Boston (MHS)- Markelle Fultz, PG Washington.
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Lonzo Ball, PG UCLA
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES) - Josh Jackson, F Kansas
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic) - Jonathan Isaac, F FSU
5. Sacramento (smileyy) - De'Aaron Fox, Kentucky
6. Orlando (Votto) - Jayson Tatum, Duke
7. Minnesota (berg) - Lauri Markkanen, F Arizona
8. New York (NJ/JC) - Frank Ntilikina, PG France
9. Dallas (billyshears) - Malik Monk, G Kentucky
10. Indiana via Sacramento (King Mekong) - Dennis Smith Jr, NC State
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw) - Donovan Mitchell, Louisville
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)- Zach Collins, F Gonzaga
13. Denver (PASTE) - Luke Kennard, G Duke
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse) - Jarret Allen, C Texas
15. Chicago via Portland (Dandy) - Jordan Bell, F Oregon
16. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES) - Justin Jackson, SF North Carolina
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)- Tyler Lydon, SF Syracuse
18. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy) - Bam Adebayo, Kentucky
19. Atlanta (Laser Man) - T.J. Leaf, F UCLA
20. Portland (JJ) - OG Anunoby, F Indiana
21. OKC (Thok)
22. Brooklyn (jmurph)
23. Chicago via Philadelphia (via Toronto) (Dandy)
24. Utah (Booey)
25. Orlando (Votto)
26. Portland (JJ)
27. Brooklyn (jmurph)
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
29. San Antonio (Quaker)
30. Utah (Booey)

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man)
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
33. Orlando (Votto)
34. Sacramento (smileyy)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston (Der-K)
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston (Der-K)
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver (PASTE)
50. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
51. Denver (PASTE)
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York (NJ/JC)
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)

Trades:

PHI: #16, #38, ed davis
CHI: #23, richaun holmes

POR: Lopez and Rondo (waived)
CHI: Crabbe, Davis, and #15

SAC: #18 #47 2018 lotto protected that turns into a 2nd if not conveyed.
IND: #10

TOR: gerald henderson, nik stauskas, #36, #50
PHI: demarre carroll, #23

Thok (OKC) is on the clock, and once he picks jmurph picks next and will take Justin Patton or Ike Anigbogu, in that order.
   6105. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: June 16, 2017 at 05:45 PM (#5477873)
Wait. STIG, why did you draft a pair of threes?
   6106. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 16, 2017 at 05:47 PM (#5477875)
Both named J. Jackson, no less. I think he just did it for the novelty.

But look, it's the Sixers. Drafting numerous guys who play the same position and figuring it out later is what they do, OK?
   6107. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 16, 2017 at 05:55 PM (#5477882)
Wait. STIG, why did you draft a pair of threes?
best player available, plus laying the groundwork for free agency and a future trade.
But look, it's the Sixers. Drafting numerous guys who play the same position and figuring it out later is what they do, OK?

i see SG, SF and PF as basically interchangeable so i'm not too worried about overlapping skillsets. and since this year is a transition year, i'm pretty open to playing a bunch of weirdo lineups.

   6108. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 16, 2017 at 06:02 PM (#5477887)
It's my understanding the Sixers will be lead by the finest point forward ever to play, so I don't really see the issue here.
   6109. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 16, 2017 at 06:09 PM (#5477890)
and since this year is a transition year, i'm pretty open to playing a bunch of weirdo lineups.


That's some genuine Director of Public Relations-quality spin, that way you worded "since as soon as Embiid gets injured we're tanking like hell again this year".
   6110. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: June 16, 2017 at 06:36 PM (#5477897)
I thought this was the offseason I could avoid going down conditional DraftExpress rabbit holes. I really did.
   6111. Booey Posted: June 16, 2017 at 06:58 PM (#5477902)
Hmmm...I'd say that what the Jazz need most is a back up PF for when Favors is injured (or just sucky), and a back up SG for when Hood is injured (sensing an unfortunate pattern here). At this point I'm pretending that both the Indiana guys with the initials GH are sticking around.

Gotta head for the evening, so if my pick for the Jazz at #24 comes up, please update from the following choices, in this order:

1) John Collins - PF, Wake Forest
2) Harry Giles - PF/C, Duke
3) Terrance Ferguson - SG, Australia

I might be able to do my pick at #30 late tonight if we get that far.
   6112. MHS Posted: June 16, 2017 at 07:01 PM (#5477903)
If the Celtics trade down fir less than a bounty I'd be very disappointed.' I think Fultz is ridiculous and meaningfully better than anyone else in this or last draft.

I'd want 3 major assets to move down.
   6113. JC in DC Posted: June 16, 2017 at 07:12 PM (#5477906)
C'mon. You might think that, and you might wish that Ainge gets that, but there's little evidence the consensus on this draft is that Fultz is "ridiculous" and "meaningfully better" than anyone else in this draft. Given that, given that many seem to think Ball or Fultz or Jackson could go #1, why would Philly - aside from stupidity - give 3 major assets to move up?
   6114. MHS Posted: June 16, 2017 at 07:43 PM (#5477911)
JC, I guess we disagree. Every single serious draft board has Fultz better. Every single one. The superlatives around his game have been flowing all year. Consensus is he is the best guard prospect since John Wall who was also a number 1 pick. Fulton has generally been ranked from what I can tell as an above above first overall pick. This is not me making it up.

The last time a trade like this was made was 1 for 3 plus 3 future first rounders. I said I'd want at least 3 serious assets, I'm not out of line. Sir.
   6115. JC in DC Posted: June 16, 2017 at 07:46 PM (#5477914)
Is Fultz "can't-miss?" He's as close as there is to can't-miss as there is in this draft, which is loaded with great talent but devoid of a Karl-Anthony Towns-like, Kyrie Irving-like, LeBron James-like transcendent player or surefire superstar.

Literally from the first mock I looked up. CBS sports. Yeah, he's #1, but it doesn't say what you claim it says.
   6116. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: June 16, 2017 at 07:54 PM (#5477916)
a Karl-Anthony Towns-like, Kyrie Irving-like, LeBron James-like transcendent player


IIRC, while Kyrie was the clear consensus #1, a lot of people were far from sure about him, given that he nearly missed his entire college career due to injury. The overall point stands.
   6117. PJ Martinez Posted: June 16, 2017 at 08:26 PM (#5477926)
"Hearing this could wind up being a 3-team trade between Philadelphia-Boston-Chicago including Butler, Okafor and lots of picks"
   6118. SteveF Posted: June 16, 2017 at 08:32 PM (#5477928)
Best tweet on this trade I've seen is this one.
   6119. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 16, 2017 at 08:38 PM (#5477929)
Best tweet on this trade I've seen is this one.
if he didn't have one before got here, he'll have one before he leaves here.

"Hearing this could wind up being a 3-team trade between Philadelphia-Boston-Chicago including Butler, Okafor and lots of picks"
hell, throw SAC in there, too.

CHI: bradley, brown, crowder, okafor
BOS: 5, butler, mclemore
PHI: 1, 10
SAC: 3
   6120. smileyy Posted: June 16, 2017 at 08:49 PM (#5477932)
[6118] I literally LOLed
   6121. jmurph Posted: June 16, 2017 at 08:58 PM (#5477934)
Why wouldn't Philly just trade for Butler if that's in play? Unless Chicago is just dead set on Crowder or Brown or someone, which would be very weird.
   6122. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: June 16, 2017 at 09:06 PM (#5477938)
Maybe it's cause the bulls are the ones getting screwed, but that's the worst stiggles trade in a while.
   6123. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 16, 2017 at 09:10 PM (#5477939)
Maybe it's cause the bulls are the ones getting screwed, but that's the worst stiggles trade in a while.
we both know it's reingarpax who's doing the screwing.
   6124. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: June 16, 2017 at 09:12 PM (#5477941)
Same: it lacks the plausible affirmability of a really good STIGGLES trade.
   6125. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: June 16, 2017 at 09:15 PM (#5477944)
This may have been posted already, but Pelton did his stat-based rankings of the draft deriving a projected WARP:

1. Ball
2. Fultz
3. Isaac
4. Smith Jr.
5. Z. Collins
6. Jo. Jackson
   6126. PJ Martinez Posted: June 16, 2017 at 09:17 PM (#5477945)
Why wouldn't Philly just trade for Butler if that's in play?
Fultz makes more sense for Philly than Butler does, given his upside (including possibly better shooting) and the way his age lines up with their other guys.

Edit: I think I'd rather have Fultz than Butler if I was running the Celtics, honestly, though YMMV. For Philly it strikes me as a no-brainer.

Second edit: FWIW, I'm not thrilled about the BOS-PHI deal as described by Lowe (#1 for #3 plus one future first-rounder, possibly the 2018 Lakers pick). I'm no scout (not even a college basketball fan), but I prefer Fultz to Jackson by a fair bit. Maybe this is about subsequent moves, in which case time will tell. But I'm more worried about Ainge's plans than I was before.
   6127. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 16, 2017 at 09:24 PM (#5477946)
Fultz makes more sense for Philly than Butler does, given his upside (including possibly better shooting) and the way his age lines up with their other guys.
fultz's cap hit is much lower. the sixers could, theoretically, trade for fultz, sign kyle lowry and probably still have room for another near max free agent, maybe danilo gallinari or tyreke evans or jj redick or , eh, andre iguodala.
   6128. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: June 16, 2017 at 09:25 PM (#5477948)
Is Fultz "can't-miss?"


The consensus, I think, is that Fultz won't be a bust, whereas Ball could be. Fultz comes off to me like a somewhat better version of D'Angelo Russell, which is fine, but nothing to get excited about. But I may be proven wrong, and I do not take anyone's amateur scouting reports seriously, especially my own. Maybe Fultz will be Dwyane Wade.

   6129. Hombre Brotani Posted: June 16, 2017 at 09:59 PM (#5477957)
Murph, who says no:

Deng/Randle for Lopez? Lopez is about to walk.
   6130. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 16, 2017 at 10:48 PM (#5477974)
The consensus, I think, is that Fultz won't be a bust, whereas Ball could be. Fultz comes off to me like a somewhat better version of D'Angelo Russell, which is fine, but nothing to get excited about. But I may be proven wrong, and I do not take anyone's amateur scouting reports seriously, especially my own. Maybe Fultz will be Dwyane Wade.
the worst case for fultz is a lot like dion waiters. overconfident gunner, who's not very good at shooting, who doesn't play defense, who doesn't create shots for others.

fultz is a very good prospect, he has above average tools across the board - size, athleticism, shooting, playmaking, penetration, defensive potential - but none of his strengths are special in the way that ball's playmaking is special. and in terms of shooting, i would argue that ball's shot selection more than makes up for any potential advantage that fultz has in that area. i also trust ball's range more than fultz.


i rate ball above fultz because i think his strengths are truly elite at the NBA level and i don't think fultz's strengths are at that level.
   6131. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 16, 2017 at 10:55 PM (#5477977)
also, it may be worth saying that i wouldn't trade up for ball, either. i just don't think trading up is a good use of resources for this team right now.
   6132. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 16, 2017 at 11:01 PM (#5477979)
The superlatives around his game have been flowing all year. Consensus is he is the best guard prospect since John Wall who was also a number 1 pick.


I can't wait to see what this gets revised to once the Lakers end up with Fultz ;)
   6133. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 16, 2017 at 11:05 PM (#5477981)
Why is there no smoke around George Hill back to the Spurs? Popovich loved Hill (e.g. this article), he has talked multiple times about how painful it was to trade him but obviously he had to do it to get Leonard (borne out, of course), and Hill was great there, and the Spurs need a PG. But I haven't heard anyone really mention this.
   6134. PJ Martinez Posted: June 16, 2017 at 11:11 PM (#5477984)
Spurs don't have much cap space, do they?
   6135. spivey Posted: June 17, 2017 at 12:51 AM (#5477998)
Comments that Fultz are better than Butler or trading down 2 picks should necessitate 3 meaningful assets are blowing my mind right now. Boston fans are locked in, Waco'ing it up, and getting ready to drink that kool aid.
   6136. stevegamer Posted: June 17, 2017 at 01:34 AM (#5478005)
JJ1986 Posted: June 16, 2017 at 12:03 PM (#5477520)
Does anyone have interest in trading for More Harkless? Brooklyn or Phoenix maybe.


JJ, what are you looking for in return? Some cap relief? A player at another position? New Orleans here, we are rich in depth big men.

   6137. stevegamer Posted: June 17, 2017 at 01:37 AM (#5478006)
My take on the Celtics trading #1 thing is that it absolutely makes sense for them.

I see this draft as not having a clear cut top prospect, but having a bunch of guys who are of similar value at the top. If you fairly neutral between a couple fo them, there's no reason you shouldn't see if you can move down, and get something extra.

If I'm the 76ers, I don't move up for the exact same reasons.
   6138. Thok Posted: June 17, 2017 at 01:56 AM (#5478007)
Sorry for holding things up.

OKC drafts Terrence Ferguson, Adelaide 36ers. OKC really needs a solid 3 and D wing player, even if they keep Andre Roberson, he's sort of meh. Terrence Ferguson probably needs a lot of polishing and isn't ready to immediately be the sort of wing player that OKC would like, but most of the alternatives are PF/C types that don't really help OKC that much.
   6139. Thok Posted: June 17, 2017 at 02:00 AM (#5478008)
Updating to include jmurph's pick of Justin Patton, C, Creighton

Dandy is on the clock.

1. Boston (MHS)- Markelle Fultz, PG Washington.
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Lonzo Ball, PG UCLA
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES) - Josh Jackson, F Kansas
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic) - Jonathan Isaac, F FSU
5. Sacramento (smileyy) - De'Aaron Fox, Kentucky
6. Orlando (Votto) - Jayson Tatum, Duke
7. Minnesota (berg) - Lauri Markkanen, F Arizona
8. New York (NJ/JC) - Frank Ntilikina, PG France
9. Dallas (billyshears) - Malik Monk, G Kentucky
10. Indiana via Sacramento (King Mekong) - Dennis Smith Jr, NC State
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw) - Donovan Mitchell, Louisville
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)- Zach Collins, F Gonzaga
13. Denver (PASTE) - Luke Kennard, G Duke
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse) - Jarret Allen, C Texas
15. Chicago via Portland (Dandy) - Jordan Bell, F Oregon
16. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES) - Justin Jackson, SF North Carolina
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)- Tyler Lydon, SF Syracuse
18. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy) - Bam Adebayo, Kentucky
19. Atlanta (Laser Man) - T.J. Leaf, F UCLA
20. Portland (JJ) - OG Anunoby, F Indiana
21. OKC (Thok) - Terrence Ferguson, SF/SG Adelaide 36ers
22. Brooklyn (jmurph) - Justin Patton, C, Creighton
23. Chicago via Philadelphia (via Toronto) (Dandy)
24. Utah (Booey)
25. Orlando (Votto)
26. Portland (JJ)
27. Brooklyn (jmurph)
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
29. San Antonio (Quaker)
30. Utah (Booey)

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man)
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
33. Orlando (Votto)
34. Sacramento (smileyy)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston (Der-K)
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston (Der-K)
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver (PASTE)
50. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
51. Denver (PASTE)
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York (NJ/JC)
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)

Trades:

PHI: #16, #38, ed davis
CHI: #23, richaun holmes

POR: Lopez and Rondo (waived)
CHI: Crabbe, Davis, and #15

SAC: #18 #47 2018 lotto protected that turns into a 2nd if not conveyed.
IND: #10

TOR: gerald henderson, nik stauskas, #36, #50
PHI: demarre carroll, #23
   6140. PJ Martinez Posted: June 17, 2017 at 06:42 AM (#5478010)
Comments that Fultz are better than Butler ... are blowing my mind right now.

Well, he's not better than him now -- perhaps he'll be better than him someday, perhaps he won't. My unprofessional opinion is that a consensus #1 in a reasonably strong draft with Fultz's numbers has a decent chance to be better than Jimmy Butler someday, and for a lot of teams (certainly Philly, in my view) that upside, along with (crucially) the years of control that his drafting team receives, makes him a more valuable player to have than twenty-seven-year-old Butler with two more seasons left on his somewhat below-market contract. Maybe that's true for Boston, maybe it isn't, for reasons we've all discussed ad nauseam; I think it probably depends on what other moves Boston makes. (And of course we don't know right now whether this BOS-PHI stuff is about Butler at all.)
   6141. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: June 17, 2017 at 07:42 AM (#5478011)
The Bulls select Jawun Evans, PG Oklahoma State. I'll write something up on him later.

Booey and the Jazz are on the clock.

1. Boston (MHS)- Markelle Fultz, PG Washington.
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Lonzo Ball, PG UCLA
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES) - Josh Jackson, F Kansas
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic) - Jonathan Isaac, F FSU
5. Sacramento (smileyy) - De'Aaron Fox, Kentucky
6. Orlando (Votto) - Jayson Tatum, Duke
7. Minnesota (berg) - Lauri Markkanen, F Arizona
8. New York (NJ/JC) - Frank Ntilikina, PG France
9. Dallas (billyshears) - Malik Monk, G Kentucky
10. Indiana via Sacramento (King Mekong) - Dennis Smith Jr, NC State
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw) - Donovan Mitchell, Louisville
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)- Zach Collins, F Gonzaga
13. Denver (PASTE) - Luke Kennard, G Duke
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse) - Jarret Allen, C Texas
15. Chicago via Portland (Dandy) - Jordan Bell, F Oregon
16. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES) - Justin Jackson, SF North Carolina
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)- Tyler Lydon, SF Syracuse
18. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy) - Bam Adebayo, Kentucky
19. Atlanta (Laser Man) - T.J. Leaf, F UCLA
20. Portland (JJ) - OG Anunoby, F Indiana
21. OKC (Thok) - Terrence Ferguson, SF/SG Adelaide 36ers
22. Brooklyn (jmurph) - Justin Patton, C, Creighton
23. Chicago via Philadelphia (via Toronto) (Dandy) - Jawun Evans, PG Oklahoma St
24. Utah (Booey)
25. Orlando (Votto)
26. Portland (JJ)
27. Brooklyn (jmurph)
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
29. San Antonio (Quaker)
30. Utah (Booey)

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man)
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
33. Orlando (Votto)
34. Sacramento (smileyy)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston (Der-K)
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston (Der-K)
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver (PASTE)
50. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
51. Denver (PASTE)
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York (NJ/JC)
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)

Trades:

PHI: #16, #38, ed davis
CHI: #23, richaun holmes

POR: Lopez and Rondo (waived)
CHI: Crabbe, Davis, and #15

SAC: #18 #47 2018 lotto protected that turns into a 2nd if not conveyed.
IND: #10

TOR: gerald henderson, nik stauskas, #36, #50
PHI: demarre carroll, #23
   6142. Booey Posted: June 17, 2017 at 11:23 AM (#5478034)
The Jazz select John Collins, PF Wake Forest.

Can someone update the list? Sorry, the copy and paste function isn't working on my laptop right now.

Orlando and Votto are on the clock.
   6143. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 17, 2017 at 11:25 AM (#5478036)
If Crosseyed had taken Luke Kennard at 12, I was going to take John Collins at 13. Very surprised to see him drop all the way to 24.
   6144. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 17, 2017 at 11:31 AM (#5478037)
here's my semi-contemporaneous ranking of process era top 5 draft prospects:

2017: ball, fultz, jackson, fox, isaac
2016: simmons, ingram, dunn, brown, murray
2015: towns, russell, okafor, porzingis, winslow
2014: wiggins, embiid, parker, exum, vonleh
2013: noel, porter, mclemore, oladipo, mccollum

tier 1 (in order):
simmons, towns, ball, wiggins

tier 2 (in order):
embiid, russell, fultz, jackson, okafor, fox, porzingis

tier 3 (in order):
noel, porter, isaac, ingram, dunn, mclemore, oladipo, brown

tier 4 (in order):
mccollum, murray, winslow, exum, vonleh
   6145. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 17, 2017 at 11:36 AM (#5478040)
If Crosseyed had taken Luke Kennard at 12, I was going to take John Collins at 13. Very surprised to see him drop all the way to 24.
yeah, collins was the last really good prospect left on my board. there are still a lot of interesting players around, but they're on a lower tier, imo.
   6146. Oriole Tragic Posted: June 17, 2017 at 11:47 AM (#5478043)
I'll take whomever is remaining at the top of the DX mock when PHO turn comes around. Thanks.
   6147. JJ1986 Posted: June 17, 2017 at 11:50 AM (#5478044)
Kris Dunn is like Tier 7.
   6148. PJ Martinez Posted: June 17, 2017 at 12:02 PM (#5478048)
I think Wiggins was really overrated as a prospect -- basically, he looked like the second coming out of high school, and no one *quite* displaced him during his one college year (though Parker came close, and Embiid presumably would have if not for the injury), so he kept that pre-college shine. But his numbers at Kansas (and I know numbers aren't everything, but still) were unimpressive.
   6149. JC in DC Posted: June 17, 2017 at 01:19 PM (#5478065)
Projecting HS kids is tough. In rare instances, LBJ, Moses Malone, KG, etc, you have a guy who's clearly better than anyone else, but in most cases guys are so young, and their body types so common it's hard to know what you're getting, even after one year of college. Even Embiid, it's partly due to the uncommonality of the body: great size, phenomenal, projectable athleticism. Fultz, or Wiggins, or Ball, or any of these guys may be the next Kobe or Michael or whatever, but no one thought that about those guys when they were 18-19. That was my point re Fultz and MHS's trade proposal: of course a Boston fan wants gobs of assets in return, but Fultz is not in that class in terms of predictability. He's much more like Wiggins, who had more star power in HS than did Fultz, than he is like Garnett, or LBJ, or even, based on what people are saying, Wall.
   6150. spivey Posted: June 17, 2017 at 01:32 PM (#5478069)
I agree with JC. I also don't think that this is considered a particularly strong draft in terms of #1, is it? I feel like Simmons and Towns were both significantly more well thought of. I'd also say that even taking some of the guys that were clearly thought of very highly - Simmons, Towns, Wiggins, and Parker - there's a real chance none of those guys has a year as good as Butler this year. I guess some of this may just come down to where people think Butler lands, but I think a guy in the 8th to 15th best player in the league area on a solid contract is worth way more than all but the most slam-dunky of #1 picks.
   6151. PJ Martinez Posted: June 17, 2017 at 01:43 PM (#5478075)
Towns was almost as good as Butler this season, at the age of twenty-one, so I'd be pretty surprised if he never surpasses Butler. My guess is Wiggins never has a year as good as Butler just had. I don't have a good feel for Simmons or Parker.

Fultz is definitely a lesser prospect than Towns was, in any case. In fact, a decent point of reference for him, mentioned by robin, is the guy who went just behind Towns, D'Angelo Russell. Roughly similar measurements, pretty similar college numbers, comparable games. Obviously Russell's been a little disappointing so far, though I still think he could become a very good player. But how good? And how much better, if at all, can Fultz be? I really don't know. He strikes me as a very good prospect but I agree that he's not a slam dunk on the level of Towns.

Edit: Woj is currently nudging the BOS-PHI trade story along on Twitter: "The plan's for Markelle Fultz's visit to Philadelphia today to clear way toward finalizing a deal with Boston for No. 1 pick. Discussions have centered on Sixers sending 2017 No. 3, 2018 Lakers pick, and possibly 2021 1st -- including complicated protections."
   6152. Quaker Posted: June 17, 2017 at 01:48 PM (#5478078)
I always thought it was a warning sign that in Wiggins' HS highlight vids he had to spin a lot. He didn't seem to be able to just flat go past ppl. If you watch DRose or Wall in HS, they could often just put their heads down and blow by their defender. The same thing applied to DWill vs. CP3 back in the day. DWill had a very pretty cross, but it seemed that he'd had have to go back and forth with the ball a few times to first get the defender off-balance and then finally drive by. Paul, on the other hand, could generally just make one fake and be in the clear.
   6153. MHS Posted: June 17, 2017 at 01:49 PM (#5478079)
The Bulls select Jawun Evans, PG Oklahoma State. I'll write something up on him later.


I think this is a great pick. I like him a bunch, more than lots of the guys who have gone ahead of him.

My understanding is Fuktz is considered an above average but not towns level number 1 pick. Pretty much on par with Simmons ahead of other recent number 1's.
   6154. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: June 17, 2017 at 01:49 PM (#5478080)
I agree with JC. I also don't think that this is considered a particularly strong draft in terms of #1, is it?


No. I don't think that many people are thinking, "Oh man, Boston is about to add Markelle Fultz to a conference finals team! Look out!" And, apparently, Ainge doesn't see it that way, either, since if the reports are true, he is considering trading the pick.

To add to what JC is saying, when a guy is 19 or 20, unless he has great size and/or OMG explosive athleticism along with obvious basketball skills, it is pretty hard to project the guy out as an ASG-level guy. The other thing I look for is at least extremely great basketball skill. Curry, for example, coming out of Davidson, clearly had the awesome shooting talent. This is why, although I think he could be a bust, I would probably prefer Ball to Jackson or to another guy for the Lakers. Flaws and all, Ball does have a real gift for passing the basketball.

   6155. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 17, 2017 at 01:54 PM (#5478082)
I always thought it was a warning sign that in Wiggins' HS highlight vids he had to spin a lot. He didn't seem to be able to just flat go past ppl. If you watch DRose or Wall in HS, they could often just put their heads down and blow by their defender. The same thing applied to DWill vs. CP3 back in the day. DWill had a very pretty cross, but it seemed that he'd had have to go back and forth with the ball a few times to first get the defender off-balance and then finally drive by. Paul, on the other hand, could generally just make one fake and be in the clear.
i noticed the same thing with fultz's college video. nothing was clean for him and he wound up taking a ton of circus shots at the rim.

conversely, deaaron fox blows by everyone. he's a blur with the ball in his hands.
   6156. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: June 17, 2017 at 01:58 PM (#5478084)
Fultz is definitely a lesser prospect than Towns was, in any case. In fact, a decent point of reference for him, mentioned by robin, is the guy who went just behind Towns, D'Angelo Russell


Key advantage for Fultz over Russell IMO is FTR:
Fultz: .383
Russell at Ohio State: .303
Wall at Kentucky: .530

This is a perhaps a big issue with Ball, since at .286 he was even lower than Russell, and it may not work having two guards who don't get to the stripe that much if the Lakers do take Ball.



   6157. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: June 17, 2017 at 02:09 PM (#5478085)
Obviously Russell's been a little disappointing so far,


I covered this already, but I don't think he has, actually. Between being the highest Lakers' pick since James Worthy, dealing with Kobe Bryant's Farewell Tour, dealing with Byron Scott, and being paired with Jordan Clarkson and Lou Williams, he has had kind of a tough path into the NBA. That said, he has not helped himself with the fanbase, since he gives off a slightly entitled vibe when he plays--and he is not a superstar talent. But if you look at the numbers and his age, he is doing just fine.
   6158. PJ Martinez Posted: June 17, 2017 at 02:32 PM (#5478088)
6157: That's fair. (And that's an interesting point about free-throw rate.)

Edit: Embiid is into it.
   6159. Norcan Posted: June 17, 2017 at 03:16 PM (#5478097)
I remember watching several of Wiggins' high school games, a slew of which were available online. He didn't have trouble blowing by guys. He used the spin move when needed or I guess when he wanted to after setting it up but he didn't need to rely on it just to get by defenders. One player who definitely had trouble blowing by guys in high school and also rising over defenders at the rim and finishing was Julius Randle. Those warning signs, which also existed in college, have borne out.

I like Fultz a lot more than D'Angelo coming out of college. Better athlete, handles and diversity of shot. He also has the transition element in his game that Russell doesn't. I never got the fuss over Russell anyway, especially not his passing. He made a few nice bounce passes in college but most of them were simple lateral passes to a teammate on the perimeter.

I don't know about trading the no.1 overall pick if it's just to get the extra Lakers 2018 pick. Who knows if that'll end up top 5 and further, if it's to get Josh Jackson, good grief. I like Jackson but not at the expense of someone who can create his own shot like Fultz. Figures that when Ainge finally is in position to draft a perimeter player with handles and a good shot, he supposedly likes the prospect with some liability to his game. He must scout what they can't do--shoot, handle or both--and then fall in love.
   6160. Paul d mobile Posted: June 17, 2017 at 03:17 PM (#5478098)
Kelly Dwyer was let go by Yahoo. He goes all the way back to onhoops and Los chucks doesn't he? That site was gr at, but it's lost to the world now.
   6161. jmurph Posted: June 17, 2017 at 03:24 PM (#5478101)
Murph, who says no:

Deng/Randle for Lopez? Lopez is about to walk.

Hmmmm, I think Brooklyn might do that in real life just to take a chance on Randle, so I'll do that for the fake Nets. Call it in!
   6162. jmurph Posted: June 17, 2017 at 03:27 PM (#5478102)
Lots of conflicting thoughts on the ongoing Boston/Philly rumors, but the bottom line is I'd feel a lot stronger about this if I watched more college basketball. If Aingle likes Jackson almost as much as Fultz, and can get the Lakers pick and another future 1st for moving down? That makes all the sense in the world to me. The benefit of (relative) ignorance! I'll be talked into it either way.
   6163. MHS Posted: June 17, 2017 at 03:28 PM (#5478103)
I covered this already, but I don't think he has, actually.


I completely agree. Russell is getting a bum deal, his production relative to age has been very good. I think he has a solid chance of being a lesser star, defense he damned.
   6164. Hombre Brotani Posted: June 17, 2017 at 03:30 PM (#5478104)
Hmmmm, I think Brooklyn might do that in real life just to take a chance on Randle, so I'll do that for the fake Nets. Call it in!
Virtual handshake initiated!

LOS ANGELES LAKERS TRADE JULIUS RANDLE, LUOL DENG, AND LUOL DENG'S CONTRACT TO
BROOKLYN NETS FOR BROOKE LOPEZ

Rumor has it that the BTF Lakers are shopping Timo Mozgov. The only thing I'd want back is expiring money.
   6165. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 17, 2017 at 04:32 PM (#5478120)
I think I'm alone in this, but I think (a) Markelle Fultz is a likely star, (b) Josh Jackson is a likely bust, and therefore (c) Boston will prove to have made a major mistake trading down to 3, unless it lands them a player even better than Fultz next year.

I also don't understand why Boston wants Jackson when they already have Jaylen Brown--unless, as has been speculated, they're simultaneously working on a Jimmy Butler deal, which would certainly involve one or the other heading to Chicago. Ainge may be dreaming of a Thomas-Butler-Jackson/Brown-Griffin-Horford lineup next year, which I admit looks pretty awesome on paper.

Oh, and if Boston really wants to trade down to draft a 3, that definitely means they're targeting Blake Griffin rather than Gordon Hayward, right?
   6166. Howie Menckel Posted: June 17, 2017 at 04:55 PM (#5478130)
tremendous new post-mortem on the Nets-Celtics epic 2013 trades
yes, we already know about some of the Nets' motivations. but I was surprised at how many ex-Nets employees (they have virtually no staffer of significance left who was around at the time) were willing to go on the record about the trade and subsequent behind-the-scenes events.

that's what makes the piece so good
   6167. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 17, 2017 at 05:20 PM (#5478137)
“Billy’s literally like an addicted gambler when he’s close to doing those trades,” said an opposing executive. “He’ll do anything when it reaches a certain point.

   6168. Hombre Brotani Posted: June 17, 2017 at 05:32 PM (#5478139)
I was surprised at how many ex-Nets employees (they have virtually no staffer of significance left who was around at the time) were willing to go on the record about the trade and subsequent behind-the-scenes events.
Thanks for the link. My brother (Celtic fan) and I often argue about the NBA, in true LA/BOS dynamic. His latest thing has been a defense of Brooklyn's moves, and how Boston totally treated the Nets fairly. I'm looking forward to his reaction to this article.
   6169. MHS Posted: June 17, 2017 at 06:10 PM (#5478145)
6165 - I think that's right.
   6170. Hombre Brotani Posted: June 17, 2017 at 08:30 PM (#5478170)
Cameron Maybin with a lead-off homer. Since May, he's been hitting .294/.413/.445.
   6171. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 17, 2017 at 08:41 PM (#5478173)
Cameron Maybin with a lead-off homer. Since May, he's been hitting .294/.413/.445.

Yeah, but what's his wingspan? Does he have wiggle?
   6172. Hombre Brotani Posted: June 17, 2017 at 08:56 PM (#5478177)
Doh!
   6173. covelli chris p Posted: June 17, 2017 at 08:58 PM (#5478178)
Are we sure Jackson is Ainge's target? What about Tatum. I don't watch NCAA, but the idea of yet another wing that can't shoot sounds awful to me, yet right in line with Ainge's track record. What about Tatum? Seems like he has better length and a better shot ...
   6174. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 17, 2017 at 09:13 PM (#5478181)
I bet Ainge's master plan is to trade down several times and wind up with Luke Kennard and a pile of future first round picks.
   6175. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: June 17, 2017 at 09:58 PM (#5478187)
Embiid has posted a pic of himself and Saric in front of a locker that says "Markelle Fultz."

https://twitter.com/JoelEmbiid
   6176. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: June 17, 2017 at 10:26 PM (#5478194)
Orlando will take DJ Wilson from Michigan. Mostly potential at this point. Good physical tools who could blossom into a nice stretch 4.

1. Boston (MHS)- Markelle Fultz, PG Washington.
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Lonzo Ball, PG UCLA
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES) - Josh Jackson, F Kansas
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic) - Jonathan Isaac, F FSU
5. Sacramento (smileyy) - De'Aaron Fox, Kentucky
6. Orlando (Votto) - Jayson Tatum, Duke
7. Minnesota (berg) - Lauri Markkanen, F Arizona
8. New York (NJ/JC) - Frank Ntilikina, PG France
9. Dallas (billyshears) - Malik Monk, G Kentucky
10. Indiana via Sacramento (King Mekong) - Dennis Smith Jr, NC State
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw) - Donovan Mitchell, Louisville
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)- Zach Collins, F Gonzaga
13. Denver (PASTE) - Luke Kennard, G Duke
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse) - Jarret Allen, C Texas
15. Chicago via Portland (Dandy) - Jordan Bell, F Oregon
16. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES) - Justin Jackson, SF North Carolina
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)- Tyler Lydon, SF Syracuse
18. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy) - Bam Adebayo, Kentucky
19. Atlanta (Laser Man) - T.J. Leaf, F UCLA
20. Portland (JJ) - OG Anunoby, F Indiana
21. OKC (Thok) - Terrence Ferguson, SF/SG Adelaide 36ers
22. Brooklyn (jmurph) - Justin Patton, C, Creighton
23. Chicago via Philadelphia (via Toronto) (Dandy) - Jawun Evans, PG Oklahoma St
24. Utah (Booey) - John Collins, Wake Forest
25. Orlando (Votto) - DJ Wilson, Michigan
26. Portland (JJ)
27. Brooklyn (jmurph)
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
29. San Antonio (Quaker)
30. Utah (Booey)

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man)
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
33. Orlando (Votto)
34. Sacramento (smileyy)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston (Der-K)
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston (Der-K)
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver (PASTE)
50. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
51. Denver (PASTE)
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York (NJ/JC)
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)

Trades:

PHI: #16, #38, ed davis
CHI: #23, richaun holmes

POR: Lopez and Rondo (waived)
CHI: Crabbe, Davis, and #15

SAC: #18 #47 2018 lotto protected that turns into a 2nd if not conveyed.
IND: #10

TOR: gerald henderson, nik stauskas, #36, #50
PHI: demarre carroll, #23
   6177. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: June 17, 2017 at 10:29 PM (#5478195)
David Aldridge:
"Trade between Philly and Boston will be finalized on Monday, per source. Sides have agreed. Sixers will get first pick and take Fultz."
   6178. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 17, 2017 at 10:30 PM (#5478196)
In the abstract I think Fultz is the slightly better prospect, but for the Sixers specifically I kinda think I'd rather take Ball.
   6179. PJ Martinez Posted: June 17, 2017 at 10:34 PM (#5478197)
So, does Ainge know who the Lakers are taking at #2, or does he not care?

P.S. This Sixers team could be really fun. Here's hoping Embiid stays healthy.
   6180. JC in DC Posted: June 17, 2017 at 10:41 PM (#5478199)
Some video of Fultz working out with the Sixers. That's what I meant those times I referred to seeing him shoot threes. He ain't Steph, Dell, or Seth from out there.

[Maybe the Sixers asked him to depress his value for the deal?]
   6181. PJ Martinez Posted: June 17, 2017 at 10:42 PM (#5478200)
Woj: "Sources: For top pick, Sixers planning to send Celtics '17 No. 3 overall pick, '18 FRP (via LA) and '19 FRP (via Kings) - w/ protections."

Pretty curious about what those protections are. (In a previous tweet, Woj or someone referred to them as "complicated.")
   6182. Howie Menckel Posted: June 17, 2017 at 10:44 PM (#5478201)
ex-Nets exec (who now works for Woj) quoted in the link above now tweets

Bobby Marks‏Verified account @BobbyMarks42 10m10 minutes ago

If I am Lonzo Ball I would send my medical info to Boston and get an interview in the next few days as a precaution.
   6183. JC in DC Posted: June 17, 2017 at 10:45 PM (#5478202)
Zow. Good on Danny Ainge!
   6184. PJ Martinez Posted: June 17, 2017 at 11:25 PM (#5478205)
Not quite as good as that, apparently, per Woj: "Clarification on deal: Besides its 2017 FRP, Philly sends '18 Lakers pick w/ protections. If it doesn't convey, 76ers send 2019 Kings pick."

Derek Bodner: "Celtics will get Lakers pick if it falls between 2 and 5 in the 2018 draft, per league source. If not, the Celtics will get the Kings in '19."
   6185. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: June 17, 2017 at 11:26 PM (#5478206)
Butler with two more seasons left on his somewhat below-market contract.

We've beaten this Butler Celtics thing to death, but I get riled up by the attempts to make the Celtics side seem more reasonable by running down Butler. How is his deal only somewhat below market? He's going to make $18.7 mil next year and $19.7 the next. Hayward's max deal is going to start him at $30.9mil next season.
   6186. PJ Martinez Posted: June 17, 2017 at 11:29 PM (#5478207)
6185: OK, I withdraw the "somewhat." (I mean, Isaiah's making less than 7 million dollars next season, but I agree that 19 compared to 30 is more than somewhat.)
   6187. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: June 17, 2017 at 11:54 PM (#5478208)
So Woj reported it was 3 1st round picks at first and has since said it is 2. That kinda feels like a big correction, right?

Why are media types and die hard fans so in awe of that guy? He gets draft picks minutes before they are announced at the podium! What incredible information!
   6188. Der-K's tired of these fruits from poisoned trees Posted: June 17, 2017 at 11:54 PM (#5478209)
Did we cover that BBB got its first shoe endorser? Rashad McCants.
Yes, that Rashad McCants.
   6189. J. Sosa Posted: June 17, 2017 at 11:59 PM (#5478211)
With love and respect, as I've said before, all the Celtics hand wringing over contracts is just... I don't know man. It isn't super complicated.

Butler is vastly underpaid in the current market. He will be vastly underpaid for two seasons. Thomas will be vastly underpaid next season. You max out a free agent, do what you have to do,and then let Horford walk when the time comes. Ainge knows what he's doing. Do people really think Horford came north for weather and the chowder? He didn't come to Boston to baby sit 19 year old kids. Ainge could surprise, but as I've said for a few days now he's most likely up to something and has been for a good while.

Fultz just isn't THAT good of a prospect. I'd say he is a better prospect than Russell. But he's not even in the same league of a prospect as Wall or Rose, or even Kyrie for that matter, and I'm not even that big of a fan of Kyrie. Why is everybody assuming Ainge is enamored of Jackson? Ainge is perhaps the most dishonest executive in the league when it comes to telegraphing his intentions. It is all good. Whatever happens, it is going to be good for the Celtics.
   6190. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: June 18, 2017 at 12:14 AM (#5478214)
Whatever happens, it is going to be good for the Celtics.


The early spec is that all of this is setting up Boston to make a run at Davis. Sign Hayward, then cash in a bunch of stuff for Davis.
   6191. JJ1986 Posted: June 18, 2017 at 12:18 AM (#5478215)
Portland takes Semi Ojeleye. Brooklyn is on the clock.

1. Boston (MHS)- Markelle Fultz, PG Washington.
2. LA Lakers (hombRRe) - Lonzo Ball, PG UCLA
3. Philadelphia (STIGGLES) - Josh Jackson, F Kansas
4. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic) - Jonathan Isaac, F FSU
5. Sacramento (smileyy) - De'Aaron Fox, Kentucky
6. Orlando (Votto) - Jayson Tatum, Duke
7. Minnesota (berg) - Lauri Markkanen, F Arizona
8. New York (NJ/JC) - Frank Ntilikina, PG France
9. Dallas (billyshears) - Malik Monk, G Kentucky
10. Indiana via Sacramento (King Mekong) - Dennis Smith Jr, NC State
11. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw) - Donovan Mitchell, Louisville
12. Detroit (Crosseyed)- Zach Collins, F Gonzaga
13. Denver (PASTE) - Luke Kennard, G Duke
14. Miami (Mellow Mouse) - Jarret Allen, C Texas
15. Chicago via Portland (Dandy) - Jordan Bell, F Oregon
16. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES) - Justin Jackson, SF North Carolina
17. Milwaukee (Sosa)- Tyler Lydon, SF Syracuse
18. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy) - Bam Adebayo, Kentucky
19. Atlanta (Laser Man) - T.J. Leaf, F UCLA
20. Portland (JJ) - OG Anunoby, F Indiana
21. OKC (Thok) - Terrence Ferguson, SF/SG Adelaide 36ers
22. Brooklyn (jmurph) - Justin Patton, C, Creighton
23. Chicago via Philadelphia (via Toronto) (Dandy) - Jawun Evans, PG Oklahoma St
24. Utah (Booey) - John Collins, Wake Forest
25. Orlando (Votto) - DJ Wilson, Michigan
26. Portland (JJ) - Semi Ojeleye, PF, SMU
27. Brooklyn (jmurph)
28. LA Lakers (hombRRe)
29. San Antonio (Quaker)
30. Utah (Booey)

Round 2
31. Atlanta (Laser Man)
32. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
33. Orlando (Votto)
34. Sacramento (smileyy)
35. Orlando (Votto)
36. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
37. Boston (MHS)
38. Philadelphia via Chicago (STIGGLES)
39. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
40. New Orleans
41. Charlotte (Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw)
42. Utah (Booey)
43. Houston (Der-K)
44. New York (NJ/JC)
45. Houston (Der-K)
46. Philadelphia (STIGGLES)
47. Sacramento via Indiana (smileyy)
48. Milwaukee (Sosa)
49. Denver (PASTE)
50. Toronto (via Philadelphia) (TFTIO)
51. Denver (PASTE)
52. Washington (AROM)
53. Boston (MHS)
54. Phoenix (Oriole Tragic)
55. Utah (Booey)
56. Boston (MHS)
57. Brooklyn (jmurph)
58. New York (NJ/JC)
59. San Antonio (Quaker)
60. Atlanta (Laser Man)

Trades:

PHI: #16, #38, ed davis
CHI: #23, richaun holmes

POR: Lopez and Rondo (waived)
CHI: Crabbe, Davis, and #15

SAC: #18 #47 2018 lotto protected that turns into a 2nd if not conveyed.
IND: #10

TOR: gerald henderson, nik stauskas, #36, #50
PHI: demarre carroll, #23
   6192. SteveF Posted: June 18, 2017 at 12:21 AM (#5478216)
An interesting part of this deal is that it's going to happen before LA makes the pick at #2. That really tells me there are 3-4 guys they view as all roughly equal in terms of potential. If LA takes Jackson, they must be fine with Tatum.
   6193. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: June 18, 2017 at 12:33 AM (#5478217)
Trades:


We made a trade with jmurph--Deng and Randle for Brook Lopez.
   6194. J. Sosa Posted: June 18, 2017 at 12:53 AM (#5478218)
I see that the Celts real gm has a poll up asking if Ainge should be fired for trading the pick. I #### you not, yes is winning. One guy said that Ainge set them back twenty years.
   6195. aberg Posted: June 18, 2017 at 03:06 AM (#5478222)
I also saw a Philly poll that had preference for the trade at about 85-15. It seemed almost exactly opposite (or worse) on this board.
   6196. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: June 18, 2017 at 03:34 AM (#5478223)
I #### you not, yes is winning


Apparently most of the people posting on that site were born in 2009 or later. I remember people saying WTF when Ainge got Ray Allen...for about two days. Whether you are rooting against Boston, for them, or don't care, it is pretty obvious that the thing to do at this point is to wait and see what happens down the line. My opinions on the Jimmy Butler/Boston rumors are well-known here, but Ainge is playing a different hand, and even when I was criticizing him, I acknowledged that his moves may pay off.
   6197. PJ Martinez Posted: June 18, 2017 at 07:02 AM (#5478227)
"An interesting part of this deal is that it's going to happen before LA makes the pick at #2. That really tells me there are 3-4 guys they view as all roughly equal in terms of potential."

There's been some reporting to that effect -- supposedly the Boston FO thinks there are four roughly equal prospects in the draft (probably Fultz, Ball, Jackson, and Tatum). Of course, the other possible inference is that perhaps Ainge is going to trade the pick, and thinks that he can get what he wants with the no. 3, and then maybe use the additional first-rounder in another deal. In which case, we shall see. Before details on the protections were out, one Boston-centric reporter tweeted, "Multiple NBA sources believe Celtics are working on another deal. One told me: 'Who cares about the protections? They aren't keeping them.'"
   6198. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 18, 2017 at 07:39 AM (#5478228)
I also saw a Philly poll that had preference for the trade at about 85-15. It seemed almost exactly opposite (or worse) on this board.

the sentiment behind that margin is this:
Fultz is the best player by far in this draft and fits an absolute need on this roster that pairs well with previous said stars

That bleeping Lakers pick has been an illusion for 3 years

Those 3 picks will probably turn into 1 or 2 good players and 1 bust for them (assuming they even convey). You easily trade that for a chance at a superstar



never mind that 1, fultz isn't the best player by far and the fit doesn't matter if he's only the 10th best PG in the league; 2, the LAL pick is unprotected next year, so no amount of luck would have let the lakers keep it (also, ironically, this trade might make next year's lottery the most frustrating one yet); and 3, 'chance' is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.


my dislike of this trade comes down to a few things:
1, i think trading for fultz is like multiplying 3 rounded numbers. he's the right age, he has physical tools and the right complementary skills, so everything lines up in a way that makes him look like the perfect fit, but if his production isn't elite (or even just lacking in a key area or two), his upside is basically goran dragic.
2, there's a ton of depth at PG in the NBA and i don't think it's wise to trade high value assets to get one right now
3, i don't trust colangelo at all
4, i like ball more than fultz.

   6199. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: June 18, 2017 at 07:46 AM (#5478229)
this is one of the worst days in NBA trading history, right?
February 19, 2015
As part of a 3-team trade, the Phoenix Suns traded Goran Dragic and Zoran Dragic to the Miami Heat; the Miami Heat traded Norris Cole, Justin Hamilton and Shawne Williams to the New Orleans Pelicans; the Miami Heat traded Danny Granger, a 2017 1st round draft pick and a 2021 1st round draft pick to the Phoenix Suns; and the New Orleans Pelicans traded John Salmons to the Phoenix Suns. (2017 1st-round pick is top-7 protected)

As part of a 3-team trade, the Phoenix Suns traded a future 1st round draft pick to the Philadelphia 76ers; the Phoenix Suns traded Tyler Ennis and Miles Plumlee to the Milwaukee Bucks; the Milwaukee Bucks traded Brandon Knight and Kendall Marshall to the Phoenix Suns; and the Philadelphia 76ers traded Michael Carter-Williams to the Milwaukee Bucks. (PHI 1st round pick received from PHO is LAL's and is top-5 protected in 2015 and top-3 protected in 2016 & 2017.)

As part of a 3-team trade, the Phoenix Suns traded Isaiah Thomas to the Boston Celtics; the Boston Celtics traded Tayshaun Prince to the Detroit Pistons; the Boston Celtics traded Marcus Thornton and a 2016 1st round draft pick to the Phoenix Suns; and the Detroit Pistons traded Gigi Datome and Jonas Jerebko to the Boston Celtics. (PHO 2016 1st round pick received from BOS is CLE's pick and is top-10 protected.)
   6200. MHS Posted: June 18, 2017 at 08:05 AM (#5478230)
I don't like the deal as reported. I l didn't consider the protection protecting against lakers being good next year. That's a nice idea. I hate like the top 1 protection. I feel like teams often allow too much protection in trades.

With all of that said, Ainge has a great track record - and is one of the better basketball mind in the buisiness.

It's certainly a fun time to me a Celtics fan.

I selfishly want the lakers to take Jackson, if Ball or Tatum end up in Boston I like a lot more.

A huge part of my dislike of this deal has consistently been my dislike of Jackson, largely due to the personal stuff.
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