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Monday, December 23, 2019

OT - NBA Thread 2020

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, and hopefully none of the other ones posted a duplicate thread to this.

Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: December 23, 2019 at 04:40 PM | 2073 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: nba, off-topic

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   2001. Booey Posted: April 02, 2020 at 02:09 PM (#5935907)
Flip
   2002. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 02, 2020 at 03:45 PM (#5935950)
Very curious what exactly this part entails, but I'm intrigued.
So, the draft is for ALL TIME SINGLE SEASON PERFORMANCES. Once that season is drafted, then that player's remaining career is off the table. So, for example, someone picks Magic Johnson, 1986-1987 during his turn. They'll pick him, and explain why they picked 86-87 instead of other seasons. Then, Magic's off the board. No one else can have Magic or any of his undrafted seasons.

Let's say the draft is 10 rounds. When the draft is done, then we each rank the drafted teams — excluding our own teams. Based on the points gained via the crowd-surfed rankings, we have a full draft power ranking. Create a tournament bracket out of that, and then have at it. Each guy can explain why they think they win their round, and then have the rest of the teams vote on the outcome.

It sounds time-consuming, but that's the point. It'll let us get deep into players and history and game planning, and it allows other people to give feedback. It'll allow us to have a lot of back and forth as to picks, team composition, match-ups, and game planning. And really, what else are we gonna do?
   2003. Harlond Posted: April 02, 2020 at 11:22 PM (#5936087)
Ten rounds sounds like a lot, but I'm interested. How many teams?
   2004. never forget: the pee tape is 57i66135 Posted: April 03, 2020 at 12:10 AM (#5936092)
dibs on 2022-23 jahlil okafor.
   2005. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 03, 2020 at 04:41 AM (#5936113)
How many teams can we get? Let's get a roll call for people interested in a fantasy draft tournament.

Hombre is in.
   2006. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: April 03, 2020 at 09:40 AM (#5936149)
In.
   2007. Harlond Posted: April 03, 2020 at 12:27 PM (#5936210)
In.
   2008. JJ1986 Posted: April 03, 2020 at 12:53 PM (#5936217)
I'm in.
   2009. tshipman Posted: April 03, 2020 at 01:04 PM (#5936225)
Sure, I'm down.

Edit: are we like pace adjusting or something, because otherwise it's just going to be whoever gets Wilt wins.
   2010. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 03, 2020 at 01:47 PM (#5936239)
are we like pace adjusting or something, because otherwise it's just going to be whoever gets Wilt wins.
Eyeball test. Everyone's going to have a reason why they think someone wins and someone loses. We should assume someone as efficient a volume scorer as Paul Arizin can figure out how to navigate the court in 2020, and mentally adjust accordingly. That said, there's definitely going to be some recency bias, and we're just going to have to live with that.
   2011. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: April 03, 2020 at 02:07 PM (#5936250)
In.
   2012. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: April 03, 2020 at 02:26 PM (#5936253)
Great idea, but seems like too much work for me right now. I'll definitely enjoy following it.

Wojbomb, relatively speaking:
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn

Story filed to ESPN: The Chicago Bulls have started a formal search process to hire a new top executive with full authority on basketball decisions, sources tell ESPN.

Good start...
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn

Ownership has discussed the plan with Executive VP of Basketball Operations John Paxson and GM Gar Forman, sources said. Paxson is likely to continue in an advisory role with franchise; there are expected to be more conversations with Forman about his future too.

...come on, man. Unless the idea is to bounce ideas off them and then do the exact opposite of their reaction.
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn

Among the Bulls initial plans will be to seek permission to interview Denver Nuggets general manager Arturas Karnisovas and Toronto GM Bobby Webster, among other candidates, sources tell ESPN.

No objections here. I really just hope they're actually given the necessary authority to ignore/overrule the dinosaurs the Reinsdorfs can never actually get themselves to get rid of.
K.C. Johnson @KCJHoop

Beyond Karnisovas and Webster, here are some other names on Michael Reinsdorf’s list: Pacers’ Chad Buchanan, Heat’s Adam Simon, Jazz’s Justin Zanik, Clippers’ Michael Winger.

No objections here either.
   2013. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 03, 2020 at 02:27 PM (#5936255)
For those Interested, I started a Google Doc page. Feel free to add yourself if you want to play, and announce it in thread. Once we get everyone in, I'll randomly create a draft order 1-Z, Z-1. I'll leave it up for a few days to give everyone a chance. I know not everyone's visiting the site daily like they used to.
   2014. never forget: the pee tape is 57i66135 Posted: April 03, 2020 at 02:51 PM (#5936263)
the artist currently known as 57i66135 official mock draft v.0.5[c]:

round 1: '14 durant
round 2: '04 garnett
round 3: '09 paul
round 4: '97 reggie
round 5: '19 embiid
round 6: '16 draymond
round 7: '17 westbrook
round 8: '15 butler
round 9: '95 rodman
round 10: '05 metta


PG: paul -> westbrook
SG: butler -> miller
SF: durant -> artest
PF: garnett -> rodman
C: embiid -> draymond


i call this one: "we live here; you're just visiting"
   2015. never forget: the pee tape is 57i66135 Posted: April 03, 2020 at 03:17 PM (#5936276)
Eyeball test. Everyone's going to have a reason why they think someone wins and someone loses. We should assume someone as efficient a volume scorer as Paul Arizin can figure out how to navigate the court in 2020, and mentally adjust accordingly. That said, there's definitely going to be some recency bias, and we're just going to have to live with that.
personally, i'd recommend narrowing the time frame to cut some of that off.

you could go post-jordan ('99 to present), or post-83 draft (to support the 80s celtics, lakers, pistons, sixers), without making this any less fun or interesting.
   2016. BaseballObscura Posted: April 03, 2020 at 05:12 PM (#5936303)
I would be down for this draft. I added my name to the spreadsheet
   2017. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 03, 2020 at 05:22 PM (#5936307)
personally, i'd recommend narrowing the time frame to cut some of that off.
I actually want to encourage some conversation/research about the players from way back in the day. Every player from the shot clock era is good to go.
   2018. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: April 03, 2020 at 05:39 PM (#5936313)
As an aside, shout out to Hombre: "Corona draft" is the subtlest beer/pandemic wordplay I've seen yet.
   2019. BaseballObscura Posted: April 03, 2020 at 05:40 PM (#5936314)
Every player from the shot clock era is good to go.
So no George Mikan then?
   2020. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 03, 2020 at 06:52 PM (#5936340)
"Corona draft" is the subtlest beer/pandemic wordplay I've seen yet.
See, you get it.

So no George Mikan then?
Dammit. Good point. Everyone's fair game.

I'm not sure I put the right link up, so here it is again.
   2021. smileyy Posted: April 03, 2020 at 07:57 PM (#5936349)
I don't have time or knowledge to participate but damn am I interested in the first couple of picks.
   2022. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: April 03, 2020 at 08:08 PM (#5936351)
It seems to me you should start with the (anonymous?) player who scored the only point in the first basketball game in Dec, 1861. I mean, at that point he had scored not only every point in the last game, but every point ever scored! His VORP must have been astronomical.
   2023. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 03, 2020 at 08:08 PM (#5936352)
Very little time required, and we're gonna take it slow!
   2024. Harlond Posted: April 03, 2020 at 08:47 PM (#5936356)
It seems to me you should start with the (anonymous?) player who scored the only point in the first basketball game in Dec, 1861. I mean, at that point he had scored not only every point in the last game, but every point ever scored! His VORP must have been astronomical.
But not even a whole Win Share, right?
   2025. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: April 03, 2020 at 11:07 PM (#5936377)
right?

Wrong, it turns out.

First, per wikipedia, the data set available to calculate win shares at the time of the game:
The eighteen players were John G. Thompson, Eugene S. Libby, Edwin P. Ruggles, William R. Chase, T. Duncan Patton, Frank Mahan, Finlay G. MacDonald, William H. Davis and Lyman Archibald, who defeated George Weller, Wilbert Carey, Ernest Hildner, Raymond Kaighn, Genzabaro Ishikawa, Benjamin S. French, Franklin Barnes, George Day and Henry Gelan 1–0.[8] The goal was scored by Chase.


Now, let's calculate his win share(s), taking from https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html:

Calculate points produced for each player.
He scored 1 point.
Calculate offensive possessions for each player.
This data isn't available, but that's not actually a problem here: it's only used in the formula to calculate (league points per possession) * (offensive possessions), which we know to be 1, and (team pace) / (league pace), which we also know to be 1.
Calculate marginal offense for each player. Marginal offense is equal to (points produced) - 0.92 * (league points per possession) * (offensive possessions).
(1) - 0.92 * (1) = 0.8
Calculate marginal points per win. Marginal points per win reduces to 0.32 * (league points per game) * ((team pace) / (league pace)).
0.32 * 1 *. 1 = 0.32.
Credit Offensive Win Shares to the players. Offensive Win Shares are credited using the following formula: (marginal offense) / (marginal points per win).

William Chase had 0.8/0.32 = 2.5 win shares. I miss basketball.
   2026. Scott Lange Posted: April 03, 2020 at 11:39 PM (#5936379)
Delurking to say: in.
   2027. Harlond Posted: April 04, 2020 at 10:57 AM (#5936438)
William Chase had 0.8/0.32 = 2.5 win shares.
Nice work! But isn't it .08/.32, or .25?
   2028. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: April 04, 2020 at 11:52 AM (#5936454)
Welp, it sure is. You were right all along, and good eye!
   2029. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: April 04, 2020 at 12:03 PM (#5936459)
This is why I love this site. I spent some time trying to find a list of players in that game, and failed. Kudos to winter.

   2030. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 04, 2020 at 03:26 PM (#5936509)
We have 10 in the all-time draft. I'd like to get a few more. I'll wait a few more days, while I write up the rules. I'll post them for public scrutiny in a few, and hopefully everyone'll be on board.

Link.
   2031. BaseballObscura Posted: April 04, 2020 at 03:36 PM (#5936515)
Thanks for doing this! Very excited.
   2032. Scott Lange Posted: April 05, 2020 at 06:04 PM (#5936809)
Bumping for potential all-time draft participants. I know y'all don't have anything better to do in quarantine!
   2033. spivey Posted: April 05, 2020 at 07:54 PM (#5936836)
Unsure I'm going to join, but part of the reason and what I think should be clarified even for me to enjoy as an onlooker is what exactly is being rated here.

What era of basketball is being played? Is there a 3 point shot? Handchecking? Illegal defense? What timelining is done? Mikan obviously can't play today, so how is he evaluated? Purely on above-replacement-player merits? Are you putting him in a time machine and giving him the strength training, nutrition, agility work, etc. that exists today? Or can each team pick their era for their home court? That still works a bit weird because having guys across eras is awkward and if you have a team with LeBron James and George Mikan and you want to play in Mikan's era, what does that mean for LeBron? What's it mean for the other team?

What does drafting the year mean? Are you drafting the regular season and playoff combination? Are we playing out a full season or just assuming the teams are in a playoff format (sounds like maybe the latter since you mention a bracket).

I mean, I realize these can't all be answered perfectly, but I think having some parameters around this is necessary for it to not be pure talking past each other.
   2034. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: April 05, 2020 at 09:33 PM (#5936849)
Play by the rules in effect when the player with possession had their season. When Curry takes a shot, there is a 3-point line. When Mikan does, there isn't. :-P
   2035. Howie Menckel Posted: April 05, 2020 at 11:00 PM (#5936858)
Mikan was at the NBA's 50th anniversary All-Star Game in Cleveland in 1996, as one of the 50 Greatest Players - and it seemed really weird, as if Ty Cobb or Babe Ruth was at the MLB version.

Mikan was "only" 71 at the time, and he looked exactly what you'd expect him to look like. nice fellow, too.

but it still seemed weird.

Mikan died shortly before his 81st birthday in 2005, which is an amazingly long life for a 6-foot-10 person born at the time that he was.
   2036. DCA Posted: April 06, 2020 at 01:43 AM (#5936876)
Unsure if I want to draft, but I'll definitely lurk if I don't.

I do, however, suggest that the draft go 1-Z, Z-1, Z-1, Z-1, etc ... a regular snake can't make up for the advantage of getting peak Kareem/LeBron/Jordan at the very top.
   2037. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: April 06, 2020 at 01:07 PM (#5937010)
I'm pretty sure I was in the same draft as Hombre, and here is what was stipulated:

*Each player is adjusted to his era. While you may believe that Bill Russell would be overmatched against 2020 athletes, for the purposes of this exercise he is elite at all the things he was elite at in his era

   2038. Dolf Lucky Posted: April 06, 2020 at 01:17 PM (#5937016)
I'm very much a lurker, but the draft sounds fun. Adding my name to the sheet...
   2039. never forget: the pee tape is 57i66135 Posted: April 06, 2020 at 02:40 PM (#5937046)
which NBA player will gain the most weight before more games are played, and why is his name joel embiid?
   2040. Rally Posted: April 06, 2020 at 02:42 PM (#5937047)
*Each player is adjusted to his era. While you may believe that Bill Russell would be overmatched against 2020 athletes, for the purposes of this exercise he is elite at all the things he was elite at in his era


I would hope anyone thinking that way could use some of their corona basketball down time to watch some youtube of Bill Russell and quickly disavow themselves of such a silly notion.

Start here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2AlFrOj5Mc
   2041. Scott Lange Posted: April 06, 2020 at 03:40 PM (#5937059)
I do, however, suggest that the draft go 1-Z, Z-1, Z-1, Z-1, etc ... a regular snake can't make up for the advantage of getting peak Kareem/LeBron/Jordan at the very top.


I think this is a great point. I wonder if there's some cool way to go further and make it into an auction. Probably not a normal auction where we bid on each player (too logistically complicated for a board like this), but maybe we somehow get to bid on different pick packages? If you want the #1 pick, and somebody else bids super high, and you choose to outbid them, you end up with much worse picks in the rest of the draft (even worse than "last in each round."). I love designing good systems like this... I'll see if I can come up with something cool. But if not, DCA's suggestion is a big improvement over traditional snake draft I think.
   2042. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: April 06, 2020 at 03:41 PM (#5937060)
IIRC, Bill Russell was in his college days one of a handful of track and field athletes vying to be the first to high jump a 7' bar. This was before the '68 olympics popularized the fosbury flop, too, so the man was jumping his own height with a damn scissor kick.
   2043. smileyy Posted: April 06, 2020 at 04:25 PM (#5937072)
I am curious how "elite" Russell would be in today's NBA. Given modern training, I suspect he'd be MVP-caliber. He'd be stronger for sure. And on the other hand, playing against kon-average) taller, quicker and less-likely-to-smoke-cigarettes players.
   2044. tshipman Posted: April 06, 2020 at 04:27 PM (#5937073)
Unsure I'm going to join, but part of the reason and what I think should be clarified even for me to enjoy as an onlooker is what exactly is being rated here.

What era of basketball is being played? Is there a 3 point shot? Handchecking? Illegal defense? What timelining is done? Mikan obviously can't play today, so how is he evaluated? Purely on above-replacement-player merits? Are you putting him in a time machine and giving him the strength training, nutrition, agility work, etc. that exists today? Or can each team pick their era for their home court? That still works a bit weird because having guys across eras is awkward and if you have a team with LeBron James and George Mikan and you want to play in Mikan's era, what does that mean for LeBron? What's it mean for the other team?

What does drafting the year mean? Are you drafting the regular season and playoff combination? Are we playing out a full season or just assuming the teams are in a playoff format (sounds like maybe the latter since you mention a bracket).

I mean, I realize these can't all be answered perfectly, but I think having some parameters around this is necessary for it to not be pure talking past each other.


This is particularly important for modern players. 2016 Curry takes 46.7% of the 3p shots of an average 2016 team, but he takes 200% of the 3p shots of a 1989 team.

If you place him in the context of 2016, he's an amazing offensive player. If you put him in the context of the 1960s, he's a ####### unstoppable god raining devastation onto unsuspecting mechanics and longshoremen.
   2045. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: April 06, 2020 at 05:04 PM (#5937088)
I am curious how "elite" Russell would be in today's NBA. Given modern training, I suspect he'd be MVP-caliber.
Athletically, he'd be elite in any era; similarly, his intelligence, unselfishness, and maniacal competitiveness would play. The big question is his ability to develop a modern skillset, which I guess is mostly a euphemism for shooting touch.
   2046. spivey Posted: April 06, 2020 at 05:16 PM (#5937093)
Athletically, he'd be elite in any era; similarly, his intelligence, unselfishness, and maniacal competitiveness would play. The big question is his ability to develop a modern skillset, which I guess is mostly a euphemism for shooting touch.


For sure. Wilt too (obviously). Wilt high jumped 6'6" too, long jumped 22 feet, and ran the 880 in 1:58.3 in high school.

I think both of their problems would just be the game moves at lightning speed now, and the game is just way more advanced in terms of motion from multiple players. I think if they grew up in the era, they'd be fine though.
   2047. spivey Posted: April 06, 2020 at 05:21 PM (#5937097)
I'm curious to see where Steph Curry's 15-16 season goes. I think you could make a case that's better than any LeBron year. Though that first LeBron year after he finally won a title (12-13) was something to behold.
   2048. Howie Menckel Posted: April 06, 2020 at 07:15 PM (#5937124)
Tim Bontemps
@TimBontemps
Adam Silver says he's told his people with the NBA that there will be no way to have a real answer about where things are headed in terms of starting the season again until, at a minimum, May 1.
7:07 PM · Apr 6, 2020

...................

(that sounds right to me. NY and NJ both had 'good days' today - if hundreds more people dying in my area could be 'good' because it was not as bad as the day before. it appears both states may clearly peak within a week or two, which would allow a little more confirmation before May 1 - at which point, at best, you have the beginnings of "a real answer about where things are headed." I can't imagine all 29 NBA arenas hosting anything near full houses in less than six months, but plenty of alternatives have been floated.)
   2049. smileyy Posted: April 06, 2020 at 08:13 PM (#5937133)
How does Russell comp with a peak Dwight Howard?
   2050. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: April 06, 2020 at 08:20 PM (#5937136)
How does Russell comp with a peak Dwight Howard?

Howard's career high in assists per game very, very narrowly exceeds Russell's career low in assists per game (which came during his rookie year and was a full assist lower than his average in any other season). This remains true if you use stats per 36 minutes.

Apart from that, they're probably reasonably similar (in this casual fan's view, at least). Their FT% numbers are unreasonably close (and bad).
   2051. tshipman Posted: April 06, 2020 at 08:47 PM (#5937142)
Howard's career high in assists per game very, very narrowly exceeds Russell's career low in assists per game (which came during his rookie year and was a full assist lower than his average in any other season). This remains true if you use stats per 36 minutes.


And Howard's career low in TS% would be significantly higher than Russell's career high.
   2052. tshipman Posted: April 06, 2020 at 09:25 PM (#5937146)
I'm pretty sure Bill Russell is just Ben Wallace + some outlet passing.
   2053. smileyy Posted: April 06, 2020 at 11:33 PM (#5937163)
Is the TS% a factor of people just taking really shitty shots back then? Or was Russell a notoriously bad shooter?
   2054. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: April 07, 2020 at 12:02 AM (#5937164)
Is the TS% a factor of people just taking really shitty shots back then? Or was Russell a notoriously bad shooter?

Russell's FG% was 8-4-1 compared to league average during his career; above average for his first six years, then average or below in five of the last seven. As noted, his FT% was reliably bad, 10+ points below league average every year. He got to the line at what looks like an above average rate, but his FT% means that wasn't as helpful as it might have been.

It may be worth pointing out that as a team, the Celtics were below league average in FG% during 8 of the 10 titles they won with Russell on the team, so they must have been doing something else right.
   2055. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 07, 2020 at 02:12 AM (#5937173)
A few things with the draft:

• It will definitely be a 1-Z, Z-1 draft. You draft #1, you get to wait. It's only fair.

• My initial desire was to run a post-merger draft, but the idea of leaving guys like Oscar and Russell and Miken off an All-Time draft hurts me. On the other hand, the NBA in the 1960s was a dramatically different game than it was even in the 80s. I think we have to assume that an elite player in 1965 would be an elite player in 2020, and the debates around those players will — I hope! — help drive the conversations and make judging the head-to-heads more interesting.

• Since we're building actual teams, I encourage people to draft based on team identity, especially as draft gets deeper. First few rounds always go towards the best talent, but later on, what kind of team do you want to be? What are the particular strengths you're cultivating? It might even be fun to think about what sort of chemistry your team might have, given what we know about players' personalities.

• I believe this will make the draft more fun. Each pick should come with commentary, much like our college drafts.
   2056. Thok Posted: April 07, 2020 at 07:26 AM (#5937184)
You possibly want to adjust 60's era stats for pace (and well really, adjust every eras stats for pace). The 60s were extremely fast paced, which probably means a lot of bad shots were taken early in the shot clock rather than setting up for an actual play.
   2057. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: April 07, 2020 at 08:44 AM (#5937195)
I would like to plug BackPicks.com for era adjusted stats on TS and the like. It's the same guy who does the Thinking Basketball pods which I found out about here. Thanks to the current pandemic I've spent a ton of time consuming his content the past few weeks and really love it.
   2058. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: April 07, 2020 at 10:59 AM (#5937250)
I signed up. Please be kind; I'm ignorant and don't really know what I'm doing. But someone has to be the Clippers of the league.
   2059. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 07, 2020 at 11:03 AM (#5937252)
We'll get started Wednesday morning, I will post a randomize draft order, and we can go from there.
   2060. Scott Lange Posted: April 07, 2020 at 11:23 AM (#5937257)
LAEHoA - Does that mean you're doing 1-Z, Z-1, 1-Z, Z-1? I'd strongly encourage 1-Z, Z-1, Z-1, Z-1 at a minimum. As DCA said picking #1 in round 1 is a massive advantage, even with a traditional snake draft.

If you want to get more creative, here's a proposal that gives everyone an equal shot at the #1 pick. It would take a bit more to manage, but we've got nothing but time now. Feel free to take it or leave it, of course:

1- Everybody says what pick they will enter the draft at in exchange for the #1 pick. Lowest # gets and makes the #1 pick.
2- Everybody else (team that made a pick already excluded) says what pick they will enter the draft at in exchange for the #2 pick. Lowest # gets and makes the #2 pick.
3- Repeat until the first X picks are made (or nobody bids). We could set X to whatever you want it to be - first five picks, or one pick per team, or whatever.
4- Snake draft begins. Order is #1 pick team, #2 pick team, etc, followed by teams that didn’t win picks in random order. Of course, any pick that comes up before the number bid by a team that won a pick is passed.
5- Draft proceeds until every team is full.

So for example, let's say there are 15 teams. Everybody bids for the first pick, and my bid of "I'll sit out until the 75th pick" is lowest. I get the #1 pick and select 1986 Jon Koncak (obviously). Somebody wins the #2 pick with a bid of 60th and picks their guy, somebody wins the #3 pick with a bid of 45th, etc. When all that is done, we just start snake drafting and skipping anyone who comes up before their winning bid slot. (Passed slots still count when you're counting when a team is eligible to start drafting in the snake draft, to be clear).

As I said, take it or leave it, but I do hope you do something to mitigate the #1 pick advantage.
   2061. tshipman Posted: April 07, 2020 at 12:18 PM (#5937279)
Maybe this is a hot take, but I don't think there is that much of an advantage in having the #1 overall pick.

Even the Wilt 50 point season is mostly inflated by pace and playing all 48.

I think you could make an argument for about 5 different seasons to go #1 overall. You've got Bucks Kareem, Wilt, 1991 MJ, LeBron or the Curry 2016 season. All of those are pretty darn close and depend on what you value.
   2062. DCA Posted: April 07, 2020 at 12:26 PM (#5937283)
There might not be much advantage to picking 1 vs 2/3/4. But it's bigger than the difference between 21 and 22/23/24.

And more to the point, the difference between 1 and 24 is not remotely made up for by the difference between 37 and 60 (assuming 30 teams drafting).

I'm not sure that #2060's drafting of slots is something worth doing. I just did that for a start-up Scoresheet league. It was mostly a game theory exercise and orthogonal to the actual player evaluation piece. Which was fine. But it took several weeks and a lot of thought.

Unless fairness is of paramount importance, and I don't think that's the case here, I'd prefer to keep it simple and focus on the player evaluation and team construction strategy pieces.
   2063. DCA Posted: April 07, 2020 at 12:35 PM (#5937287)
Starting tomorrow morning? I'm in.

I assume order will be randomized, and the fact that my handle is in column N doesn't mean I'm picking 13th.

We pick in this thread, no? Spreadsheet is just for record-keeping?
   2064. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: April 07, 2020 at 12:51 PM (#5937293)
How's the search for the Bulls new "head" of the FO going? Glad you asked:

A few of their top targets are already off the board, however, including Heat assistant general manager Adam Simon, who withdrew his name from the search Monday, when a team spokesperson told reporters Simon would remain in his current role in Miami.

He became the second of the Bulls’ initial targets to remove his name from consideration, joining Pacers general manager Chad Buchanan, who had been rumored as a top target since at least the All-Star break. Buchanan declined an opportunity to interview with the Bulls, The Athletic reported over the weekend.

And the Raptors are almost certain to deny the Bulls permission to speak with general manager Bobby Webster, who is under contract through the 2020-21 season, according to SportsNet.


So, two guys said straight up "no thanks" and another won't be given permission. I wonder if that means the Raps (and/or the candidates) really don't see this job as the actual head of basketball ops.
   2065. Jtsports01 Posted: April 07, 2020 at 01:14 PM (#5937301)
Like Dolph I’m usually a lurker, I signed up if that’s ok
   2066. Jtsports01 Posted: April 07, 2020 at 01:41 PM (#5937308)
DCA, I assume we pick in this thread so we can offer our explanation for our pick
   2067. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: April 07, 2020 at 01:53 PM (#5937316)
It's gotta be close to time to start another thread. Might I suggest a new one before you guys start your draft? I'll happily submit if needed, but I know Hombre can as well.
   2068. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 07, 2020 at 03:29 PM (#5937351)
I'll start a new thread along with the posting of the draft rules and order.

We have 14 right now. Let's get a solid 16 for tournament purposes!

2- Everybody else (team that made a pick already excluded) says what pick they will enter the draft at in exchange for the #2 pick. Lowest # gets and makes the #2 pick.
That sounds like exponentially more work for me.
   2069. Dolf Lucky Posted: April 07, 2020 at 03:50 PM (#5937362)
Flatten the curve!
   2070. Scott Lange Posted: April 07, 2020 at 09:27 PM (#5937464)
That sounds like exponentially more work for me.

I don't think it's that much more work, really. And come to think of it, everyone could submit all their bids at once. Then it would take one email from each person at the beginning and a few minutes to make the list of picks and mark which ones get skipped.

But anyway, like I said, it's your call.
   2071. Harlond Posted: April 07, 2020 at 10:52 PM (#5937478)
A normal snake draft is fair enough for me. I got enough to do just making my picks, I don't need to spend even more time assessing the value of pick 24 versus pick 48 or whatever. Just tell me when I'm picking and I'll make do.
   2072. tshipman Posted: April 07, 2020 at 11:25 PM (#5937481)
Okay, Harlond picks last.
   2073. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: April 08, 2020 at 06:04 AM (#5937500)
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