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Monday, December 23, 2019

OT - NBA Thread 2020

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, and hopefully none of the other ones posted a duplicate thread to this.

Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: December 23, 2019 at 04:40 PM | 1360 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: nba, off-topic

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   601. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: January 23, 2020 at 02:28 PM (#5918766)
Roth's Tweet is mildly offensive, since it does a real disservice to Statler and Waldorf.

I watch most sports events on mute.Still enjoy baseball on radio...old guy stuff.
   602. bob gee Posted: January 23, 2020 at 02:32 PM (#5918767)
598 - and Van Gundy said he didn't want to make a decision, since he hadn't seen Zion play (live, I think) and Jackson was ripping into him for not making a decision.

My immediate thought was that I should mute the TV, but I usually like the main NBA play by play people. The NBA ex-athletes who are commentary - Reggie Miller, Webber, Jackson in particular - are awful.

   603. jmurph Posted: January 23, 2020 at 02:47 PM (#5918779)
It's a bummer because I think that booth used to be really entertaining. Jackson never offered the most rigorous analysis but he was at least reasonably fun, and the three of them had good chemistry. But JVG has just gone full bitter old man and it's brought everything down (not to absolve Jackson by any means, but I feel like Van Gundy's change has been more drastic). Doris Burke is miles ahead of them both at this point, just give it to her and Breen.
   604. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: January 23, 2020 at 02:48 PM (#5918780)
“and Van Gundy said he didn't want to make a decision, since he hadn't seen Zion play (live, I think) and Jackson was ripping into him for not making a decision.”
At which point I barked at my TV something about just because it’s your job to fill time and spark conversation, doesn’t mean you’ve got to be an idiot.

There are worse color guys than Jackson, but there are also many who are better. It’s frustrating.
   605. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: January 23, 2020 at 03:23 PM (#5918790)
I predict SVG won't be as gloomy on the air as his brother.
   606. spivey Posted: January 23, 2020 at 03:42 PM (#5918795)
I get those damn Van Gundys confused. I think JVG used to be funny but also good at analysis. I don't know if he would have become a curmudgeon on his own, but I think being with Jackson brings out the worst in him.
   607. aberg Posted: January 23, 2020 at 03:47 PM (#5918797)
Roth's Tweet is mildly offensive, since it does a real disservice to Statler and Waldorf.


Jackson: "You know, the NBA in 2020 isn't half bad."

JVG: "You're right, it's all bad!"

I usually like the main NBA play by play people


There are lots of good ones. Breen, Harlan, Mark Jones, Ruocco, Eagle are all good national people. Doris and Hubie are great. I have found Jim Jackson and PJ Carlesimo pretty good, too.
   608. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 23, 2020 at 03:56 PM (#5918798)
One of the things that annoys me is that some of the newer color person talent has been great. I'd love to hear more of Richard Jefferson and Kendrick Perkins on national games, but there are scant opportunities because of the mediocrity in place. Getting rid of Reggie, Webber, and Mark Jackson would go miles. (You don't even have to fire them, just relegate them to studio work!)

Edit: it is also long past time for Marv Albert to retire. This reddit joke absolutely slayed me the other day.
   609. reech Posted: January 23, 2020 at 04:46 PM (#5918810)
I can understand why no one has hired Mark Jackson as a coach since he was canned by Golden State-
He must be a real drag in the locker room-
   610. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: January 23, 2020 at 05:37 PM (#5918829)
He must be a real drag in the locker room-

In some ways, sure. IIRC, a number of the W's really liked him as a coach (for example) and others didn't.
   611. bob gee Posted: January 23, 2020 at 05:44 PM (#5918832)
608 - I agree! NY area, I've been very impressed with Jefferson. I've been around long enough to remember Mike Breen on Imus' morning show, and Ian Eagle as the scores guy on - I think - Mike & The Mad Dog show. I loved (hearing) their progression from WFAN to NY (Knicks / Nets, respectively) basketball games to national play by plays.


I haven't heard Perkins yet.
   612. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 23, 2020 at 05:50 PM (#5918835)
609 - That's true, but sort of understates the negative. Jackson tried to turn the team against an injured Festus Ezeli for no apparent reason and feuded with several assistant coaches (and Jerry f'n West!). Nothing wrong with a strong coach, but the Ezeli situation in particular was weird and extremely unprofessional, at least from what came out publicly about it.
   613. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 23, 2020 at 06:16 PM (#5918841)
[Bah, meant 610 and didn't notice until the edit window elapsed.]
   614. PJ Martinez Posted: January 23, 2020 at 08:01 PM (#5918856)
All-Star starters from the Eastern Conference:

•Giannis Antetokounmpo
•Joel Embiid
•Pascal Siakam
•Kemba Walker
•Trae Young

All-Star starters from the Western Conference:

•Anthony Davis
•Luka Dončić
•James Harden
•LeBron James
•Kawhi Leonard

LeBron and Giannis are the captains and will pick teams.

P.S. If I'm Giannis and get the first pick I take Dončić. If I'm LeBron and get the first pick I take Davis.
   615. puck Posted: January 23, 2020 at 09:54 PM (#5918887)
I have no idea how various components contribute to a good PER but was surprised Zion's per is 38.1 despite the 5 turnovers (28% turnover rate!).

I guess 4 for 4 on 3's in 18 minutes will do that.
   616. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: January 23, 2020 at 09:59 PM (#5918889)
Yeah, I mean, obviously this is simplistic, but if you just lump the threes and turnovers that's 12 points on 9 possessions, which is pretty good.
   617. aberg Posted: January 24, 2020 at 01:22 PM (#5919063)
Yeah, I mean, obviously this is simplistic, but if you just lump the threes and turnovers that's 12 points on 9 possessions, which is pretty good.


IIRC, that's not too far from what PER does. It's a way of using linear weights for the point value of different box score metrics, which is kind of a combination of points per possession and possessions added.
   618. SteveF Posted: January 24, 2020 at 01:35 PM (#5919066)
On the one hand, I think Butler is more deserving of being named a starter than Young. On the other, no player is more prepared to play in a meaningless game with no defense than Trae Young.
   619. tshipman Posted: January 24, 2020 at 01:36 PM (#5919067)
From inside the NBA last night:

"We want to bring you the highlights" - Ernie

"What are the highlights" -Chuck

"Washington and Cleveland" -Ernie

"No we don't" - Chuck

   620. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: January 24, 2020 at 01:40 PM (#5919072)
I'm amused by the local push/attention on Lavine trying to make the All-Star team. I mean, I get that it's here in Chicago and all, but he really isn't *that* close to deserving it. He's fun to watch, and when he's "on" it's generally thrilling, but he's really not that good - although his contract is just fine and has turned out better than any of us expected. Like Young, he's a guy that would be a lot of fun in the game itself.
   621. i hear there are a lot of dead animals in 57i66135 Posted: January 24, 2020 at 01:51 PM (#5919075)
609 - That's true, but sort of understates the negative. Jackson tried to turn the team against an injured Festus Ezeli for no apparent reason and feuded with several assistant coaches (and Jerry f'n West!). Nothing wrong with a strong coach, but the Ezeli situation in particular was weird and extremely unprofessional, at least from what came out publicly about it.
also, GSW improved by 16 wins and won the title the year after they got rid of him, despite no significant changes to their roster.
   622. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: January 24, 2020 at 01:56 PM (#5919076)
618: SteveF, that's super true and why I'm trying to let it go that Young made it. (I'm a Hawks fan, I ought to be ok regardless but I want a meritocracy here)
   623. i hear there are a lot of dead animals in 57i66135 Posted: January 24, 2020 at 02:03 PM (#5919081)
the guy who's doing this finished 8th in all-star voting among eastern conference guards:

16 PPG
8 RPG
8.5 APG
2.2 SPG (#1 in the NBA, btw)

58% FG%
60% TS%
20 PER
4.9 BPM
   624. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: January 24, 2020 at 02:06 PM (#5919083)
and from the line? threes per 36?
   625. Booey Posted: January 24, 2020 at 02:26 PM (#5919091)
#623 - And Gobert finished behind Melo amongst Western Conference frontcourt players. Hard to put too much stock into these rankings. Fans have always been awful at voting, but honestly the players vote is almost as bad.

Hopefully the coaches are a little more reasonable.
   626. jmurph Posted: January 24, 2020 at 03:05 PM (#5919103)
honestly the players vote is almost as bad.

I think the players might actually be worse:
Stat of the Day #95!

The players gave *multiple* All-Star votes to:

Kevin Durant (0 games)
John Wall (0)
Zion (1)
Jarrell Brantley (2 games, 0 points)
Giannis brother #1 (3, 0)
Miye Oni (3, 0)
Tacko Fall (4 games)
Jordan Bone (5 games, 4 points)
Giannis brother #2 (13 games)
   627. jmurph Posted: January 24, 2020 at 03:18 PM (#5919108)
Am I crazy or is Iguodala likely to kind of suck when he comes back?
   628. Booey Posted: January 24, 2020 at 03:21 PM (#5919111)
Sounds like some players just vote for their teammates/friends. Or brothers (betcha Giannis voted for both his bros). That, or a few players were confused and voted for the wrong Antetokounmpo by mistake...
   629. aberg Posted: January 24, 2020 at 03:31 PM (#5919115)
Am I crazy or is Iguodala likely to kind of suck when he comes back?


I was thinking about that this morning. The counter-argument would be that he has flipped a switch in the playoffs after looking done in the past, but it's more of a gamble than I've heard discussed.
   630. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 24, 2020 at 03:36 PM (#5919117)
I'd imagine any team trading for him would probably do due diligence; it's an interesting question of whether saving the wear and tear of the season is worth more than another year of aging has taken away. (I'm assuming he's kept himself in good enough shape that ramping up to game shape wouldn't be an issue.)
   631. tshipman Posted: January 24, 2020 at 03:38 PM (#5919118)
You're picking up Andre for what he gives you in May and June, not what he does in March.

He's been a positive player at the highest level for years, and was a net plus in the playoffs last year. The injuries are a concern, and the regular season is likely to be low effort, but Iggy is a playoff beast until proven otherwise.
   632. jmurph Posted: January 24, 2020 at 03:39 PM (#5919119)
The counter-argument would be that he has flipped a switch in the playoffs after looking done in the past, but it's more of a gamble than I've heard discussed.

He was kind of bad in the Finals, but was good against Houston.

I guess I'm just suggesting it would be crazy to trade anything real for him. I get taking a run at him if he takes a buyout, that's no risk at all.
   633. jmurph Posted: January 24, 2020 at 03:40 PM (#5919120)
He's been a positive player at the highest level for years

Right, but for a looooooooooooooooooooot of years.
   634. jmurph Posted: January 24, 2020 at 03:43 PM (#5919123)
Why is Embiid "ramping up his conditioning" after a finger injury?
Tim Bontemps @TimBontemps
Josh Richardson will be re-evaluated in two weeks, per Sixers. Joel Embiid has been ramping up his conditioning, and he will be re-assessed Monday. Participated fully in practice today — including contact.
   635. tshipman Posted: January 24, 2020 at 03:46 PM (#5919125)
Iguodala's player type is so rare. He's a wing player who acts as a ceiling lifter. He makes your team better without needing the ball and is one of like 5 guys who can guard LeBron, Kawhi and Giannis.

Edit: Yeah, he might just be too old, but he's very difficult to replicate if you don't have someone already. The Clippers, Lakers and Mavs basically don't have that player.
   636. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: January 24, 2020 at 03:55 PM (#5919130)
Yeah, Lakers fans want Iguodala simply because they think he can help with Leonard and George, and so the Clippers don't get him.
We understand that no one can save us from being schooled by Joe Ingles.
   637. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: January 24, 2020 at 04:01 PM (#5919132)
Chicago Bulls @chicagobulls

INJURY UPDATE:
Lauri Markkanen underwent an MRI of his right hip at Rush Hospital on Jan. 23 which revealed an early stress reaction of his right pelvis. Following a period of rest, Markkanen will resume basketball related activities with a full return anticipated in 4-6 weeks.


Cool. cool cool cool.

Tom Haberstroh @tomhaberstroh

Zach LaVine
Otto Porter Jr
Lauri Markkanen
Wendell Carter Jr

Since Otto Porter was acquired a year ago, Bulls' four-man core has played 9 of a possible 74 games together. 9.


Job security.
   638. aberg Posted: January 24, 2020 at 04:02 PM (#5919133)
Iguodala's player type is so rare. He's a wing player who acts as a ceiling lifter. He makes your team better without needing the ball and is one of like 5 guys who can guard LeBron, Kawhi and Giannis.

Edit: Yeah, he might just be too old, but he's very difficult to replicate if you don't have someone already. The Clippers, Lakers and Mavs basically don't have that player.


Agree with all of that. Only issue is if he isn't in good enough shape or has lost enough of a step that he is no longer a plus at guarding those guys.
   639. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: January 24, 2020 at 04:12 PM (#5919135)
It's funny - these threads have been going on long enough that I remember getting teased for my Iguodala love way back when.
Anyway, as for 2020, I'm a little skeptical that he'll be super useful in the playoffs, but he's worth a shot for a select set of teams, especially as he'll be rested and obviously would know his role.
   640. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 24, 2020 at 04:12 PM (#5919136)
The flipside of Iggy's age/situation, of course, is that he wouldn't be available to that teams that need him were it not the case. It seems like we all agree there is some age-related risk, but not enough that the teams trying to get him shouldn't jump at the chance.

Since Otto Porter was acquired a year ago, Bulls' four-man core has played 9 of a possible 74 games together. 9.

You know, to put on my Doc Rivers hat, the Bulls' core is undefeated in NBA Finals with everyone healthy...
   641. jmurph Posted: January 24, 2020 at 04:14 PM (#5919137)
Yes I fully agree that the good teams should sign Iguodala quickly if/when he becomes available post-buyout. I just think he's not going to have much to offer (but wouldn't mind being wrong, he's a likable guy).
   642. tshipman Posted: January 24, 2020 at 04:17 PM (#5919138)
Yes I fully agree that the good teams should sign Iguodala quickly if/when he becomes available post-buyout. I just think he's not going to have much to offer (but wouldn't mind being wrong, he's a likable guy).


I don't think he gets to a buyout. Someone is going to toss Memphis a second at least (which makes GSW's original trade of him look that much worse).
   643. jmurph Posted: January 24, 2020 at 04:20 PM (#5919139)
$17.1 is a lot of salary to match, I don't know.
   644. spivey Posted: January 24, 2020 at 04:22 PM (#5919140)
I'm ok with Milwaukee tossing a 2nd rounder for Iggy, but Iggy makes a lot of money and I think that makes it hard to make a deal. At least for Milwaukee.
   645. Fourth True Outcome Posted: January 24, 2020 at 04:39 PM (#5919142)
I'm very curious if Memphis will stick to its no-buyout guns if they can't get a deal in place by the trade deadline. Would they really keep him if they can't find a trade? Would Iggy help them make the playoffs? Would the team want that at this point? Would he just play golf until he's a free agent? We may well find out soon.
   646. DCA Posted: January 24, 2020 at 05:18 PM (#5919155)
This works for the Lakers. Memphis would probably go for it too.

This works for the Clippers. But I think both teams say no, unless Memphis is able to pass on Harkless to a third team. And maybe Clips say yes to block move to the Lakers.
   647. i hear there are a lot of dead animals in 57i66135 Posted: January 24, 2020 at 05:18 PM (#5919156)
I'm very curious if Memphis will stick to its no-buyout guns if they can't get a deal in place by the trade deadline. Would they really keep him if they can't find a trade? Would Iggy help them make the playoffs? Would the team want that at this point? Would he just play golf until he's a free agent? We may well find out soon.
on the one hand, not buying him out may help them in the future since it means teams would be less likely to call their bluff.

on the other hand, not buying him out may hurt them in the future, since it'll mean that players are less likely to take their money if they have other options.
Yeah, Lakers fans want Iguodala simply because they think he can help with Leonard and George, and so the Clippers don't get him.
this seems most accurate.
   648. tshipman Posted: January 24, 2020 at 05:20 PM (#5919157)
Some teams don't have that hard of a time matching salary:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=wfkf7sp

Memphis loses:
Iguodala
Clippers lose:
Zubac
Mo Harkless
Second round pick

The Lakers get there with KCP, Quinn Cook and Troy Daniels.

Dallas gets there with Courtney Lee and Josh Jackson.

I don't think it's that hard to get to Iguodala's number.
   649. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: January 24, 2020 at 06:37 PM (#5919167)
WCS dealt by GWS to Dallas for Utah's 2nd in '20.
Before that, Dallas created a roster spot by swapping Roby and Patton+$ (Patton, on an non-guaranteed in the future deal was then waived) with OKC.

I've wondered why I hadn't heard more GS should move WCS talk - he makes the minimum but it's a larger minimum which impacts the Warriors + this would allow them to bring Chriss back on a full deal if they want.

--

I'm curious if the Clips will move Harkless. Think they will - it's the last year of his deal and I don't feel like Rivers wants to play him much + his contract size is a good fit for a number of other possible moves, but I'm under the impression that Leonard and George like playing with him. That said, I don't know the Clippers culture at all.
   650. tshipman Posted: January 24, 2020 at 09:01 PM (#5919183)
WCS dealt by GWS to Dallas for Utah's 2nd in '20.


Good move for Dallas.

On the season, WCS is at 1.14 PPP as the roll man, but his PnR partners have been ... less than stellar. Will be interesting to see if he can roll like a ############ in Dallas's system. Also provides more defense than Powell.
   651. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: January 24, 2020 at 09:04 PM (#5919185)
I'm sure James Harden is a perfectly nice dude IRL, but every time I watch him play, I just want to see him fall over and poop his pants.
   652. spivey Posted: January 24, 2020 at 09:18 PM (#5919189)
I’d like Harkless on Milwaukee. Having length on the wing is key in the playoffs. I think there’s value on him just not being on one of the Clippers contenders.

   653. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: January 24, 2020 at 09:48 PM (#5919197)
The Timberwolves are awful.
   654. JC in DC Posted: January 24, 2020 at 10:08 PM (#5919203)
I'm old enough to remember when James Harden was a good player.
   655. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: January 24, 2020 at 10:11 PM (#5919204)
I mean, he's amazing; one of the three or four best players in the league. But I find him so aesthetically offensive, I find myself reduced to rootin' for poopin', If You Know What I Mean.
   656. JC in DC Posted: January 24, 2020 at 10:13 PM (#5919205)
I'm joshing, obviously, but man, when he slumps, he slumps.
   657. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: January 24, 2020 at 10:19 PM (#5919207)
Roth's Tweet is mildly offensive, since it does a real disservice to Statler and Waldorf.


Jackson: "You know, the NBA in 2020 isn't half bad."

JVG: "You're right, it's all bad!"


Since Disney/Cthulu owns both The Muppets and ABC, they should have the real Statler and Waldorf show up and do some PBP on one of the ABC games.

   658. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: January 25, 2020 at 03:42 AM (#5919219)
So tonight Williamson was 7/9 from the floor and +16 in 21 minutes, but NO lost anyway, since Ingram, Ball and Holiday went a combined 11/37 from the floor, and Denver is a good team.

But still..the guy is 15/20 from the floor in his first two games.
   659. KronicFatigue Posted: January 25, 2020 at 10:40 AM (#5919238)
James Harden is the type of player I can objectively respect for exploiting the fringes of the rules, but subjectively hate for doing so. If I was athletic enough to play in pickup games, and someone played his style of game, I'd hate him.

I think it's bad enough where the NBA has to readjust the rules.
   660. nick swisher hygiene Posted: January 25, 2020 at 12:14 PM (#5919247)
I mean, giving NBA rules and officiating as they are, Harden is no worse than the 3rd best guy in the league.

But if you're picking teams for a pickup game, where guys call their own fouls, there's no way he'd go in the top 10.

Without the fear of three free throws, doesn't most of the rest of his game collapse, and we end up with a pretty good, borderline all-star player?
   661. Booey Posted: January 25, 2020 at 12:28 PM (#5919252)
#659 - Yep. Changing the "rip-thru" move to a non shooting foul a few years ago was a good start. Now they just need to give only 2 free throws for a foul on a 3-per, tweak the "landing space" rule to only apply if the shooter goes straight up and down, and ignore all fouls initiated by the shooter (or call them as offensive fouls if the contact is egregious enough), and we'll be set. IMO that would create a perfect balance halfway between allowing way too much mugging like they did in the 90's, vs not allowing players to play defense at all like we see today. YMMV, of course.
   662. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: January 25, 2020 at 06:47 PM (#5919277)
James needs 18 points to pass Bryant on the scoring list. Embiid is out again apparently.
   663. spivey Posted: January 25, 2020 at 08:33 PM (#5919289)
I think one of my biggest problems with Harden's foul drawing and everything is I don't feel like he's getting fouled the most of any player in the NBA. When I think of Giannis and the contact guys get away with on him, younger LeBron, Shaq those guys were just getting fouled way more. Now maybe their styles of play were such that they generated more of the contact and if you do that then it opens you up to receiving more too, though I don't know that's entirely true with LeBron - but to me, what annoys me is that the types of contact that I consider a foul or impediment to the offensive player are not called consistently, and Harden just happens to fouled among the most in this very specific way that they don't let go as much.

And I think the refs should fix that. And frankly, they kind of do in the playoffs, where Harden's foul drawing rate drops precipitously.

Also, why I admire his skill, iso basketball really does get pretty monotonous.
   664. i hear there are a lot of dead animals in 57i66135 Posted: January 25, 2020 at 10:15 PM (#5919297)
i think it's terrible that the sixers aren't stopping this game to celebrate lebron passing kobe on the all-time scoring list, while the lakers are losing by 20.
   665. i hear there are a lot of dead animals in 57i66135 Posted: January 25, 2020 at 10:18 PM (#5919301)
JVG: "simmons, horford and thybulle are great defenders; harris is...big."
   666. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: January 26, 2020 at 02:38 PM (#5919364)
TMZ is reporting that Kobe just died in a helicopter crash. Damn.
   667. Tin Angel Posted: January 26, 2020 at 02:43 PM (#5919365)
I still don't understand if this is true or not, but I really, really hope it isn't.
   668. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: January 26, 2020 at 02:47 PM (#5919366)
####
   669. Booey Posted: January 26, 2020 at 02:52 PM (#5919369)
Holy sh1t, man. Is TMZ reliable? I don't see it on ESPN. Really hope it's not true.
   670. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: January 26, 2020 at 02:53 PM (#5919370)
Woj confirms.

I just... can't quite wrap my head around it.
   671. KronicFatigue Posted: January 26, 2020 at 03:04 PM (#5919374)
Not sure why this is hitting me so hard. Doesn't feel real.

Also, helicopters seem really unsafe.
   672. Booey Posted: January 26, 2020 at 03:04 PM (#5919375)
Just...mind numbing. You never realize sometimes how much impact people you've never met before can have on your lives. I always respect-hated Kobe as a player, but now I'm honestly choking up a bit writing this.

RIP, Mamba.
   673. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: January 26, 2020 at 03:07 PM (#5919376)
671, me too. I’m have some mixed feelings about the guy but I feel very sad.
   674. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: January 26, 2020 at 03:08 PM (#5919377)
Condolences to those hurting right now.

I just read yesterday about the unusually high survival rate of nba MVPs (of those since 56, the only others to have died were Wilt and Moses).
   675. Dock Ellis Posted: January 26, 2020 at 03:09 PM (#5919378)
:(
   676. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: January 26, 2020 at 03:10 PM (#5919380)
Now reports are coming in that at least three of his kids died, too.
   677. jmurph Posted: January 26, 2020 at 03:11 PM (#5919381)
The ABC News guy who preempted ESPN's coverage just said his kids were on board? Did I hear that wrong? All other sources saying they weren't.

Also this is irredeemable from ESPN, like a 2 minute cut-in and now back to the Pro Bowl, a game hardcore football fans don't even care about.
   678. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: January 26, 2020 at 03:12 PM (#5919382)
Various sources are reporting his wife was definitely not on board, but I hadn't seen any indication his kids weren't, until ABC just a few minutes ago reported that they were.
   679. greenback slays lewks Posted: January 26, 2020 at 03:12 PM (#5919384)
Also this is irredeemable from ESPN, like a 2 minute cut-in and now back to the Pro Bowl, a game hardcore football fans don't even care about.

They don't know what's going on yet.

First thought: This sucks.
Second thought: Oh, yeah, that. I don't know.
   680. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: January 26, 2020 at 03:18 PM (#5919385)
I saw this Kobe news pop up on my phone and I came here to try to process the news. Man, that is just terrible. Way way way too young.
   681. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: January 26, 2020 at 03:21 PM (#5919386)
Vince Staples, who is of course not a news source but is a guy from LA who might know stuff, just tweeted "RIP RICK FOX."
   682. tshipman Posted: January 26, 2020 at 03:30 PM (#5919388)
Kobe Bryant is dead.

Kobe was a basketball psychopath. Ralph Wiley, back when he was alive, wrote a piece on the Shaq-Kobe Lakers, where he compared Kobe to Miles Davis, and that metaphor has always stuck for me. Kobe was a pretty awful human being by all accounts (particularly when he was younger), much like Miles, but the way that he played was so compelling that I couldn't look away.

Two memories stand out for me. Game 7 of the 2000 Western Conference finals, with the famous Kobe to Shaq alley-oop. The oop actually only brought the Lakers to within 2. Pippen is guarding Kobe at the 3p line, Kobe uses a cross over to get past him, and draw the help. He tosses it up for Shaq. It's always Shaq's face, hooting and pointing with both arms that closes the highlight. Shaq misses Kobe for the high 5 because he's too excited. I noticed that when it happened and I always wondered if that was where some of the resentment started. Kobe made the whole play happen, but Shaq's face is what people remember.

The other was not a basketball memory, strictly speaking. In 2009, Kobe broke his ring finger on his shooting hand, and he played through it. I think we posted about it in this neverending thread. In the middle of a game in the middle of February, his finger popped out of the splint. Kobe calmly walked over, and had someone push it back in. He never showed pain. You know, like a psychopath.

I loved watching Kobe, defended him, but I always knew that there were problems. He was a challenging person to root for. The rape case. Shaq leaving. Stories about him in practice. The last year of his career. Maybe the best encapsulation of Kobe was the last game of his career. 60 points on 50 shots. A basketball psychopath until the end.

By all accounts, he changed in retirement. I loved that he had four girls. He cared about them so much, and his whole face lit up when he talked about them. I loved his short film, his analysis of the playoffs. He was an interesting person with interesting things to say. I'm glad that he seemed to grow. I hope for the best for his daughters.
   683. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: January 26, 2020 at 03:32 PM (#5919389)
Yeah, now some outlets are reporting Kobe's kids weren't on board, but Rick Fox was? Doesn't sound like anyone actually knows.
   684. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: January 26, 2020 at 03:42 PM (#5919391)
apparently Rick Fox was not involved, thankfully. Vince took the tweet down.
   685. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: January 26, 2020 at 03:45 PM (#5919393)
TMZ (who first broke the news and, against all expectation, appears to be the reliable news source on this) reports that one of Kobe's daughters was on board and the other three people who died are still unknown except that none of them is Rick Fox.
   686. Ken Griffey's Grotesquely Swollen Jaw Posted: January 26, 2020 at 04:01 PM (#5919395)
ugh. from Woj: "Sources: Kobe Bryant was on his way to a travel basketball game with his daughter Gianna when the helicopter crashed. Those aboard the helicopter also included another player and parent."
   687. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: January 26, 2020 at 04:18 PM (#5919399)
This is so surreal. I can't believe it.
   688. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: January 26, 2020 at 04:29 PM (#5919400)
682/tshipman: that’s a nice summation
   689. Dock Ellis Posted: January 26, 2020 at 04:47 PM (#5919404)
   690. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: January 26, 2020 at 04:54 PM (#5919405)
This tweet has a clip of LeBron last night talking about how much Kobe meant to him. It's surreal beyond description to watch it today. Near the end LeBron said "Things happen that don't make sense in this universe"... he could never have imagined Kobe had 12 hours left to live.
   691. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: January 26, 2020 at 05:21 PM (#5919409)
San Antonio and Toronto started their game with each team taking a 24-second violation.
   692. Red Voodooin Posted: January 26, 2020 at 06:06 PM (#5919410)
Kobe was a pretty awful human being by all accounts


I don't really believe this to be true, but it's subjective. YMMV. But this:

The oop actually only brought the Lakers to within 2.


Is definitely false. They were up 4 with under a minute left. The oop put them up six and sealed the deal.

   693. Booey Posted: January 26, 2020 at 06:11 PM (#5919411)
Now reports are saying there were 9 people on board rather than 5. Ugh.
   694. puck Posted: January 26, 2020 at 06:15 PM (#5919412)
Holy effing crap. I had no idea until I decided to check the NBA thread.
   695. tshipman Posted: January 26, 2020 at 06:20 PM (#5919413)
Is definitely false. They were up 4 with under a minute left. The oop put them up six and sealed the deal.


My bad, I checked and still got it wrong.
   696. Meatwad Posted: January 26, 2020 at 06:29 PM (#5919414)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qSLiIQcRbtw&feature=share
Supposed video of the crash. If real its mechanical failure. And worse they knew they were done before it crashed.
   697. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: January 26, 2020 at 06:35 PM (#5919415)
Helicopters are supposedly much safer than riding in cars. We tend to hear about helicopter crashes because rich/famous people ride and thus die in them.
   698. puck Posted: January 26, 2020 at 06:38 PM (#5919416)
Helicopters are supposedly much safer than riding in cars. We tend to hear about helicopter crashes because rich/famous people ride and thus die in them.


And if the engine fails, you can use autorotation to land. I don't know what happened here, they may have been very low.
   699. Fancy Crazy Handle on Altuve's Buzzer Posted: January 26, 2020 at 06:41 PM (#5919417)
Helicopters are supposedly much safer than riding in cars. We tend to hear about helicopter crashes because rich/famous people ride and thus die in them.

Well also, it is rather difficult to have an unspectacular helicopter crash. So they tend to make for good news.

Plus they are often used in urban environments, which can lead to all sorts of collateral damage. There was a police helicopter crash in Glasgow a few years ago, that was big news over here. Crashed into a pub. Killed 3 on board, and another 7 inside the pub. Plus another 30 or so injured.
   700. AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther Posted: January 26, 2020 at 06:43 PM (#5919418)
The Leicester City (EPL soccer) owner died in a helicopter crash last year.
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