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Monday, November 22, 2021

OT - NHL Thread

We had one of these awhile back and at least one other person is interested so here is your place to talk Troy Terry, Connor McDavid and America’s Sweetheart Brad Marchand!

Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful Posted: November 22, 2021 at 01:26 PM | 101 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: chris drury, frozen pond, nhl

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   1. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: November 22, 2021 at 01:54 PM (#6054006)
It looks like the Leafs are playing well after an uneven start to the season. Their defense has been good and they are actually winning despite not scoring a lot of goals. Jack Campbell would probably be on the shortlist of Vezina candidates if the season ended today.

Doesn't really matter though, they will get eliminated in the first round.
   2. The Duke Posted: November 22, 2021 at 02:30 PM (#6054023)
The obvious question, which no one can ever seem to answer, is “why do players skate up to within millimeters of the red line and then shoot the puck in for icing?” These guys are the best in that world at what they do and I see 2-3 icings a game where they fail to clear the red line on a dump in.
   3. Obo Posted: November 22, 2021 at 03:22 PM (#6054043)
Usually it's because somebody is lined up to destroy them if they take one more step.
   4. The Duke Posted: November 22, 2021 at 03:37 PM (#6054044)
I’ve looked at that and from the eye test, I’ve seen a couple cases of that but mostly they just miss. And if you are going to be hit, why is icing the puck your first option ?
   5. John DiFool2 Posted: November 22, 2021 at 03:46 PM (#6054045)
Some chatter whether Ovechkin can break Gretzy's goal record, which in this day and age would be astounding. Nay: he's coming off of a 24 goal season, has missed substantial time last two seasons (Covid season didn't help any way you slice it), is still 150 short. Yea: He's got 15 in 19 games this year, and if he can pop out 50 goals this go-around he'll be ~113 short going into his age 37 season.
   6. Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful Posted: November 22, 2021 at 04:23 PM (#6054060)
I’ve looked at that and from the eye test, I’ve seen a couple cases of that but mostly they just miss. And if you are going to be hit, why is icing the puck your first option ?


It's also a matter of getting the puck in quick. A lot of times someone else has put the hammer down and his heading for the blue line full speed in hopes of getting in deep first. If the player waits to dump it in that player is going to be offside.
   7. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: November 22, 2021 at 04:40 PM (#6054063)
Some chatter whether Ovechkin can break Gretzy's goal record, which in this day and age would be astounding. Nay: he's coming off of a 24 goal season, has missed substantial time last two seasons (Covid season didn't help any way you slice it), is still 150 short. Yea: He's got 15 in 19 games this year, and if he can pop out 50 goals this go-around he'll be ~113 short going into his age 37 season.
jaromir jagr scored 120 goals in his age 39-45 seasons.

given the similarity of their playing style, and given that ovechkin is still an elite scoring threat, i wouldn't bet against him.
   8. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: November 22, 2021 at 04:47 PM (#6054064)
The obvious question, which no one can ever seem to answer, is “why do players skate up to within millimeters of the red line and then shoot the puck in for icing?” These guys are the best in that world at what they do and I see 2-3 icings a game where they fail to clear the red line on a dump in.

playing hockey is exhausting, and when people are fatigued, they're prone to making mental mistakes.

90+% of the time, refs treat it like the neighborhood play at 2nd base, they give players the benefit of the doubt and life goes on. that leniency breeds the complacency that results in the other 5-ish percent of icing calls that do get made.
   9. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: November 22, 2021 at 10:04 PM (#6054133)
Some chatter whether Ovechkin can break Gretzy's goal record, which in this day and age would be astounding. Nay: he's coming off of a 24 goal season, has missed substantial time last two seasons (Covid season didn't help any way you slice it), is still 150 short. Yea: He's got 15 in 19 games this year, and if he can pop out 50 goals this go-around he'll be ~113 short going into his age 37 season.

I am not sure whether or not Ovechkin will break the record but he is undoubtedly in my mind the greatest goal scorer in the history of the NHL. When you consider the fact that Gretzky scored most of the schools in the 1980s when offense was inflated, and that Alexander has done so during an era in which goal scoring is much more difficult, I do not think there is much argument that Gretzky is the better goal scorer. Alexander has led the NHL in goals 9 times and has been in the top 10 mind-boggling 14 times. Gretzky lead the league in goals 5 times and was top-10 ten times. Wayne was the best goal scorer in league for the first decade of his career but was relatively pedestrian after that. Alexander has been a goal scoring machine since he entered the NHL other than a brief period of time in which he was relatively pedestrian in 2011 and 2012.

What makes Gretzky arguably the greatest hockey player in history was that he was the best playmaker in NHL history who happens to have also scored more goals than anyone else.
   10. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: November 22, 2021 at 11:02 PM (#6054144)
The obvious question, which no one can ever seem to answer, is “why do players skate up to within millimeters of the red line and then shoot the puck in for icing?” These guys are the best in that world at what they do and I see 2-3 icings a game where they fail to clear the red line on a dump in.


Refs actually only call icing on that play maybe 10% of the time. Players get away with a LOT of dumping the puck from a foot behind the red line, that should be whistled for icing but isn't. It's hockey's version of the old neighborhood play around second base--it's kind of an unwritten rule that the refs will only call it if you make it so obvious that they have to.

So the answer to your question is, because the de facto red line is about a foot or two behind the real one.

Ovechkin has an excellent chance to catch Gretzky on goals, I think. Even if he can't really move anymore, he'll still be able to stand on the dot and sock 25 power play dingers a year when he's 45, most likely.

There is no question that Ovechkin is the best pure scorer in history. Crosby was the better player of the two when you consider defense IMO*, but just on offense Ovechkin has it all over him. His mere presence on the ice puts extreme pressure on the opposing defense even when he doesn't touch the puck, because if you lose track of him for two seconds he will score. There's never been anything like him.

* (Although Ovechkin has played 150 more games than Crosby, and that gap will likely widen, as Ovi is still going strong and Crosby has been hurt and is beginning to look old, so stay tuned.)
   11. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: November 22, 2021 at 11:06 PM (#6054146)
Also on the subject of ridiculously great players, an interesting factoid I saw last month is that Leon Draisaitl scored 21 points in his first 9 games--the first player to do that since Mario Lemieux.

What's interesting there is that Lemieux did it (the last of three times he did it, actually) in 2003--so this remarkable feat achieved by one of the best young players in the world who plays alongside the very best player in the world, Lemieux did that when he was 37 and his back was completely shot, playing on the worst team in the league, at the nadir of the dead puck/trap/clutch-n-grab era. Lemieux was ridiculous.
   12. The Duke Posted: November 23, 2021 at 09:06 AM (#6054204)
The Blues look like they’ve managed to recover from their horrible season last year. They’ll make the playoffs which was an open question. If they could get another big defenseman they could pair up with their smaller guys (Faulk, krug and Perunovich), they could be formidable. I always like Saad when he played in Chicago. Guy scores a lot by just being near the net.

Tarasenko is back and skating well but he just can’t score even though he takes a ton of shots. Just bangs them right into the goalies midsection all game long.

They really got screwed on their window. They were cruising in 2020 pre-Covid and then completely fell apart. I think their time has passed now but their play has been entertaining this year.
   13. Random Transaction Generator Posted: November 23, 2021 at 01:04 PM (#6054259)
I am not sure whether or not Ovechkin will break the record but he is undoubtedly in my mind the greatest goal scorer in the history of the NHL.


I think there are three legitimate choices for "greatest goal scorer of all time":

Gretzky, Ovechkin, Bossy

It's hard to measure them because Bossy's career was derailed by a career-ending injury in this 10th and final season (bad discs in his back), but if you take the first 9 seasons of each of their careers, and use adjusted goals, Ovechkin comes out on top:

                                              
                                          Adju
Player            Tm From   To Active  GP    G
Mike Bossy       NYI 1977 1986      9 689  429
Wayne Gretzky    EDM 1979 1988      9 696  463
Alex Ovechkin    WSH 2005 2014      9 679  484


Ovechkin has the lead at this point in their careers, and never lets it go against Gretzky.
The only one ahead of him in adjusted goals is Gordie Howe, and that's only because of the massive difference in games played:

                                                    
                                                Adju
Player           Tm   Pos From   To Active   GP    G
Gordie Howe     TOT    RW 1946 1980     26 1767  925
Alex Ovechkin   WSH RW/LW 2005 2022     17 1216  904
   14. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: November 23, 2021 at 06:53 PM (#6054347)
There's no question in my mind that Ovechkin is the greatest goal scorer the game has ever seen. And, barring a major injury that becomes chronic, he's a near lock to break the record. He never misses much time and his skills are suited to an old man style of game - he doesn't need to be fast or quick and if his hands start to go, he's still got his ridiculous one=time and snapshot. Father Time comes for everyone, so there's always a chance he falls off a cliff at some point, but my guess is he breaks the record early in his age 40 season, reminiscent of Aaron breaking Ruth's record.

For Ovechkin to do this in the era he has is incredible.

More interesting is to me is whether or not Connor McDavid is the greatest hockey player we've ever seen (or whether you think he can become that if you don't think he is already). He seems to have a very Mike Trout feel to him - a kid coming along and doing things at the highest level possible at an early age for a mediocre team while getting better every season. I just hope he doesn't run into the mid-career injuries like Trout has. The plays McDavid makes while going significantly faster than anyone else on the ice - it's simply breathtaking. I know Draisaitl is outscoring him right now, but I think McDavid winds up with 160 points this season.
   15. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: November 23, 2021 at 09:04 PM (#6054387)
More interesting is to me is whether or not Connor McDavid is the greatest hockey player we've ever seen (or whether you think he can become that if you don't think he is already).

Unless you are making the argument that players today are better than anyone could possibly be 40 years ago, there's no real argument for McDavid over Gretzky as a forward. There's certainly an argument that Mario Lemieux at his best might be better than anyone and Orr did amazing things as a defenseman.

Gretzky would have won 3 scoring titles with his assists alone, not counting his goals. He had a year were he broke the all-time record of goals and assists in the same year. Obviously, the eras are different but Gretzky was by far the best goal scorer and best setupman at the same time during a season. McDavid has never come close to leading the league in goals, his best showing in that regard a distant second last year behind Matthews (41-33).
   16. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: November 23, 2021 at 10:52 PM (#6054433)
I think if you frame the question as "you can have anyone at his absolute peak for one game or one playoff series, who do you want" then the answer is probably Mario Lemieux. If you stretch it out even as far as a season then it's probably Gretzky; any longer than that, it's definitely Gretzky.

IMO there is a pretty strong argument that Nicklas Lidstrom was the best defenseman ever.

What I like is the uniqueness of the 21st century crop of megastars. There has never been a player like Ovechkin; there has never been a player like Crosby; there has never been a player like McDavid.

If you get a chance, watch the Rangers sometime, in person if you can--Adam Fox is extremely good. He has that sixth sense that feels almost like clairvoyance that only the truly great ones have, and that I don't think I've seen in a defenseman since Pronger and Lidstrom retired.


Extra random thought: I have a theory that there is a level freakish athleticism in a big, musclebound body that no human body can possibly support for long; go over that threshold and your athletic career being shortened by severe injury is certain. Bo Jackson. Mario Lemieux. Mike Trout. J.J. Watt. Are there any counterexamples to this? Mickey Mantle, maybe. Eric Lindros rates an asterisk, since his career was ruined by concussions before any kind of bodily injury could get there. Jim Brown was an iron man but retired early, before it could happen to him. Oscar Charleston played forever with that kind of body, though he was much shorter and it was a very long time ago.

edit: the great defensive end Julius Peppers is a good counterexample, perhaps. And before him, Bruce Smith. But I'm not actually sure even those guys were at that level of athletic freakishness. Ehhhh, it's probably all just random and I'm grasping at the wind, my primate brain stubbornly insisting on creating narratives out of the uncaring chaos of the universe. :)
   17. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: November 24, 2021 at 04:26 PM (#6054507)
I think Mario Lemieux could have been the man if he'd been able to stay healthy. I know Gretzky's got all the numbers, but the game he played in was so different in the '80s. His dominance changed the way teams played defense. McDavid has done this in a league where the average team scores 2.9 goals per game. In Gretzky's day it was 4.0 goals per game. And just by the eye test - man, watching McDavid stickhandle through four guys at full speed and then lift a puck past a 6'5" goaltender taking up the entire net is so much more exciting than watching Gretzky skate unmolested into the offensive zone and take a slapshot from the circle past a guy who didn't know the butterfly would be a thing. I'm overstating it, I know.

I see what McDavid's doing in the league now and think it's just as impressive, if not more so, as what Gretzky was doing then. We'll see if he can put up a couple of transcendent seasons in the next few years, but he's on his way. Mario Lemieux put up 161 points in 95-96. No one has put up more than 128 in a season since. If McDavid can put up a few 150-point seasons I think he's in the discussion. From the eye test, he's already there for me.
   18. Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful Posted: November 24, 2021 at 04:54 PM (#6054516)
I've seen the Gretzky stuff on the Twitterz today and there are some pretty silly comments there (not here). But one thing I haven't seen addressed is the elimination of the two line pass rule. While there are changes all over I think that's one that can't be ignored. That Gretzky did what he did with less space is remarkable.

The athleticism today is of course off the charts but that becomes a matter of how you want to do this exercise. I think if you drop 1984 Wayne Gretzky in 2021 he struggles comparatively. If you look at how much he dominated the game of his era that's a different matter. Look at Gretzky's best year relative to league scoring. 1985-86, 215 points in a league averaging 3.97 goals per game. 2018-19 (the last full season) was 3.01. Adjust that 215 by the 25% (roughly) difference and you get to 163 points. Just to put it into perspective only five guys have 150+ points in a season; Gretzky (8), Lemieux (4), Yzerman, Nicholls, Esposito.

Having said all that I think I'm with JAHV that the current NHL is just a treat. There is a level of quality overall that is so much fun to watch. Just watch some of those old highlights of Gretzky or anyone else. The speed of the game today is just ludicrous and the athleticism of goalies in particular is nonsense really.
   19. APNY Posted: November 24, 2021 at 05:14 PM (#6054522)
If you get a chance, watch the Rangers sometime, in person if you can--Adam Fox is extremely good. He has that sixth sense that feels almost like clairvoyance that only the truly great ones have, and that I don't think I've seen in a defenseman since Pronger and Lidstrom retired.


Incredible skater. Not in a Bure/Neidermayer speed way, but crazy body control/agility on skates. Hard to explain maybe, but it's like the one kid in street hockey game who can do crazy things cause he's on feet and everyone else is on blades.

Mike Bossy is a weird one for me - was always obsessed with the stat line - then Youtube came along - goaltending was really bad back then.
   20. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: November 24, 2021 at 06:43 PM (#6054533)
A rumor made the rounds a couple weeks ago that John Henry's FSG is looking into buying the Penguins. Weird if true. The Penguins are done as a serious Cup contender and are going to crash hard in the next 2-3 years. OTOH their majority owner (Ron Burkle) has been looking to sell for the right price, so maybe they're just the most available team for someone looking to buy into the NHL right now.
   21. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: November 24, 2021 at 07:40 PM (#6054541)
What I like is the uniqueness of the 21st century crop of megastars. There has never been a player like Ovechkin; there has never been a player like Crosby; there has never been a player like McDavid.

ovechkin: jagr.
crosby: forsberg.
mcdavid: yzerman.

all of this has happened before; all of this will happen again.
Ehhhh, it's probably all just random and I'm grasping at the wind, my primate brain stubbornly insisting on creating narratives out of the uncaring chaos of the universe. :)
yeah, probably.
Mike Bossy is a weird one for me - was always obsessed with the stat line - then Youtube came along - goaltending was really bad back then.
part of that is that the michellin men didn't show up until the 90s. another part is that the butterfly style of goaltending didn't become dominant until the 90s.
   22. APNY Posted: November 24, 2021 at 07:53 PM (#6054546)
I don't see ovechkin:jagr. More like a souped-up Shanahan.

I like Crosby:Forsberg.

There's been plenty of McDavid types, he's just better.
   23. Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful Posted: November 24, 2021 at 09:14 PM (#6054557)
Bruins and Sabres want to get home for thanksgiving. They have been playing long stretches without a whistle. In the 2nd they had an 11:02 stretch where the only stoppage was for a penalty shot. Advertisers couldn’t have been happy.
   24. John DiFool2 Posted: November 24, 2021 at 09:43 PM (#6054568)
I know Gretzky's got all the numbers, but the game he played in was so different in the '80s. His dominance changed the way teams played defense.


I watched some of the 1984 Finals awhile back. I was struck by how disorganized and undisciplined defenses were-and often this was the Islanders I am alluding to. Players abandoning their zone willy-nilly leaving yawning gaps in the defensive scheme. Mess and Gretz just ate them alive when they did that.

another part is that the butterfly style of goaltending didn't become dominant until the 90s.


One quick question since I only got into the sport (spectating) in the mid-80s; how do you defend against the low shots along the ice if you don't do the butterfly drop down thing? Seems you have to depend on those little flaps in front of your skates to stop them, or your stick blade.


   25. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: November 25, 2021 at 05:08 AM (#6054599)
One quick question since I only got into the sport (spectating) in the mid-80s; how do you defend against the low shots along the ice if you don't do the butterfly drop down thing? Seems you have to depend on those little flaps in front of your skates to stop them, or your stick blade.


It was basically just using your stick. There was also a lot of stacking the pads, particularly on shots where the player was moving laterally in front of the net. But there were goalies who could also make the ol' "kick save and a beauty!" with the toe of their skate.

It seems like my Ducks have decided to revert to the form everyone thought they'd take before the season started. At least we had that nice eight-game run.
   26. Random Transaction Generator Posted: November 26, 2021 at 02:07 PM (#6054676)
The thing about the 1980s is that defensemen were pretty much allowed to maul forwards in the slot. Brad Marsh would essentially turn into a backpack and drape himself over forwards. You could grab their sticks, or hook their sticks and entangle them without the puck being anywhere nearby. Multiple crosschecks to the back and shoulders were common place, and if you knocked a guy down in front, well, that was just "good defense".

The two-line-offside rule killed long breakouts, and defensemen doing micro-hooking on the skating player's hands (or sometimes out-and-out "water ski hooks"), whether they had the puck or not, murdered speed except for the exceptionally skilled.

Add an opportunity to perform human-torpedo type hits to anyone who touched a puck in the previous 10 seconds ("finishing the check"), including head shots, cheap shots, and blind shots.

Almost all of that has since been outlawed from the game in one way or another.
   27. Random Transaction Generator Posted: November 26, 2021 at 02:15 PM (#6054677)
Eric Lindros rates an asterisk, since his career was ruined by concussions before any kind of bodily injury could get there.


If he doesn't have concussion issues, I think his combination of speed, skill, size, and "truculence" would have put him in the discussion of top 5 in NHL history by the time his career is over.
   28. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: November 26, 2021 at 05:21 PM (#6054694)
RTG #26: Great post. One of the reasons 80s hockey was the way it was is just as you say: there was a lot of stuff you couldn't do out in open ice because if you tried you'd get annihilated and the refs, the media, and your coaches would say "getting knocked unconscious was your own damn fault, keep your head up, meat" that you can do now because we now understand that concussions aren't cool.

When players weren't allowed to play defense by playing the man anymore, they switched to playing the puck--which might be less manly, but it turned out to be far more effective.

About goaltending, I don't know. I think goalies Before Roy played the way they played (i.e. standing up 95% of the time) because of the equipment of the day--a goalie getting his head any closer to the ice than absolutely necessary was considered suicidal. My best guess it that it was suicidal until about the early 80s, but it wasn't until Patrick Roy in the late 80s that someone conclusively demonstrated it wasn't--at which point the butterfly became ubiquitous extremely quickly.

The other element of that was the pads--goalies Before Roy, who were mostly smaller than skaters whereas After Roy goalies quickly came to be bigger than skaters, valued mobility more than space coverage and used smaller pads. Better pads were developed by, again, the late 80s that enabled a goalie to wear gigantic pads and still be able to move, and then Roy and others demonstrated that wearing the biggest pads you can get away with, going into the butterfly and staying mostly stationary was a far superior strategy than standing up and relying on your reflexes to stop shots.

These trends were, of course, interlinked: as the game rapidly grew faster, goalies became no longer able to survive on their reflexes; their first weapon had to be their positioning and coverage of the net.

The above is the best of my understanding. Please enlighten me if any of that is wrong. I'm a historian on this, I wasn't actually there as an active hockey fan before about 1990.

One last thing: skaters lying down to block shots. You'd have to be suicidally insane to try this with the equipment of anytime before about 1990. But with the advent of universal helmets and much better body armor, players and coaches quickly learned you could (mostly) safely do this, so now it's universally done. I wish the NHL would adopt a rule making any skater intentionally lie down on the ice a penalty, because (1) we could use a few more goals, and also (2) players still get hurt blocking shots pretty regularly. But I also wish penalties could be broken down further than just 2/4/5 minutes so it and a few other things could be 45 second or 1 minute penalties.
   29. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: November 26, 2021 at 05:54 PM (#6054699)
The above is the best of my understanding. Please enlighten me if any of that is wrong. I'm a historian on this, I wasn't actually there as an active hockey fan before about 1990.
i think you also have to account for the change from wood sticks to composites, which started in the late 90s. slap shots did not used to be the heat seeking missiles that they are today.
Add an opportunity to perform human-torpedo type hits to anyone who touched a puck in the previous 10 seconds ("finishing the check"), including head shots, cheap shots, and blind shots.
aside from the semi-occasional line brawls, pre-1990 hockey was a lot less violent than the modern NHL.
   30. John DiFool2 Posted: November 27, 2021 at 08:22 PM (#6054935)
The stats do show a large drop in power play opportunities (as well as success rates).
   31. The Duke Posted: November 29, 2021 at 11:58 AM (#6055147)
Yeah, banning the “lying down on the ice” thing would be good. I’d happily trade that for less penalties on flipping the puck into the stands. Can’t there be a bit of discretion here. There’s way too many of these penalties. The refs probably don’t want discretion but their whole job is discretion - a bright line rile like that seems too harsh

I had one question on the delayed offsides call after a goal. Is there any time limit on a goal being called back? I saw one where it seemed like the offense had the puck in the zone for 30 seconds, goal finally gets scored and the goal is then taken away from something that happened so far back in time. Seems like there should be a time limit on this. If you can’t get the puck out of your zone you can hardly blame the original infraction for your troubles.
   32. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: November 29, 2021 at 12:21 PM (#6055152)
There's no time limit on that that I know of, no.

FSG (John Henry)'s purchase of the Penguins is official. Very interesting. They've bought a sinking franchise and will soon have some fascinating decisions to make, but their track record is of course very strong.

One thing I will say: up through this morning I would have put the probability of Sidney Crosby ever playing for any other franchise on terms other than a very end of career handful of unfortunate games at 0.000%. But given FSG's willingness to let Mookie Betts go, you can no longer be too sure.
   33. The Duke Posted: November 30, 2021 at 10:18 PM (#6055479)
Binnington gives up two goals in 5 seconds. Second goal on a face off dump in from center ice INTO THE CORNER. Picks hits the boards rolls to Binnington who doesn’t appear to be able to track it and it just rolls into net. Amazing
   34. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: December 01, 2021 at 11:23 PM (#6055756)
The Leafs are just killing people right now. 15-2 in their last 17 games, and have won their last 5 games on a Western trip by a combined score of 26-7. This will make their inevitable first round exit even worse.

Crazy stat: The last time the Leafs won a playoff round, Alexander Ovechkin had yet to score a single NHL goal.
   35. The Duke Posted: December 06, 2021 at 04:50 PM (#6056421)
Blues are down to 17 players tonight (10 forwards and 7 defense ) due to Covid and LTIR - why won’t the NHL give more roster flexibility in Covid situations ?
   36. Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful Posted: December 06, 2021 at 08:00 PM (#6056444)
I would assume they will call someone up before tomorrow’s game unlesss they are having some massive outbreak in the minor league city as well.

I had one question on the delayed offsides call after a goal. Is there any time limit on a goal being called back? I saw one where it seemed like the offense had the puck in the zone for 30 seconds, goal finally gets scored and the goal is then taken away from something that happened so far back in time. Seems like there should be a time limit on this. If you can’t get the puck out of your zone you can hardly blame the original infraction for your troubles.


I’m pretty sure the limit is getting the puck back out of the zone. I get what you are saying but the initial entry is the key event. I think it’s the right thing to do it that way but I can see your argument.

   37. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: December 08, 2021 at 12:47 PM (#6056659)
I love Trevor Zegras so much. That goal last night was one of the most incredible I've ever seen. He's got amazing hands, incredible vision, and creativity that's off the charts. It's been a while since I've been excited to be a Ducks fan, but I look forward to watching this kid for years to come.
   38. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: December 08, 2021 at 02:23 PM (#6056680)
Here's the video for those who are interested. I've watched it probably 25 times already.

Zegras-Milano goal
   39. Paul d mobile Posted: December 08, 2021 at 02:56 PM (#6056688)
Random hit and run from someone who barely follows the NHL... just how good was Dominik Hasek? To the eye test he was the best goalie I've ever seen, but I know that the eyes can lie. (Did I ask this once years ago? Maybe I asked somewhere else, I'm having deja vu typing out this question).
   40. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: December 08, 2021 at 03:48 PM (#6056696)
Random hit and run from someone who barely follows the NHL... just how good was Dominik Hasek? To the eye test he was the best goalie I've ever seen, but I know that the eyes can lie. (Did I ask this once years ago? Maybe I asked somewhere else, I'm having deja vu typing out this question).

that's definitely not unreasonable.
   41. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: December 08, 2021 at 07:55 PM (#6056740)
Hasek was probably the best goalie that ever lived. The advanced stats, such that we retroactively have for the 1990s/early 2000s, certainly have him far ahead of everyone else, including Roy and Brodeur.
   42. Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful Posted: December 08, 2021 at 08:33 PM (#6056742)
That goal last night was phenomenal, full stop. But the question I have to ask is how long were they going to let Milano stand there. I realize the game has changed and you can’t just wipe him out but man, put a body on him or at least try to get in front of him, don’t let him stand there that long untouched.

Hasek was remarkable. I loathed him like you can’t imagine so it is difficult for me to type but man he was great. Is there a GAA+ or something like that that can give us a good era comparison? The 90s/00s were a down era for goals but he was the best of the era without question. I think a lot of where he ranks hinges on how much credit you give guys like Roy/Brodeur for the extra games they played compared to Hasek and how much you want to adjust things for older guys (e.g. Dryden, Plante) for having to deal with the various challenges of those eras.

I can’t imagine a scenario where Hasek isn’t top five and even that may be too low.
   43. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: December 09, 2021 at 02:14 AM (#6056757)
Look, that goal probably doesn't happen against a team other than Buffalo. But I'm not going to let that kill my enjoyment of it. In seriousness, both defensemen were worried about Zegras coming out from behind the net, and they figured he couldn't get the puck to Milano without trying to come around the side and through them. But as soon as they moved, they would create space for him to operate. There was no way to know that the airborne attack was coming.

As for Hasek - loved watching him when he was on the Sabres, not so much once he joined the Red Wings. He led the league in Goals Saved Above Average every year for five years straight. By A LOT. Like he had double the next best guy. It's a simple measure that takes saves minus the average save percentage for the season times the number of shots faced. Now they use shot data to come up with better measurements using expected goals. But it's clear Hasek was dominant throughout the late 90's unlike any other goalie for an extended period of time.
   44. Ron J Posted: December 09, 2021 at 10:43 AM (#6056781)
#26 And the holding etc. was worse in the playoffs. There's a famous Hockey News cover showing a player (pretty sure it was Brad Marsh) with a smoking pistol standing over the body of an opponent. Caption was something like, do that again and it's a penalty.
   45. Ron J Posted: December 09, 2021 at 10:51 AM (#6056782)
The Coyotes have been threatened with eviction. There's a $1.3 million tax lien for unpaid local taxes and arena fees and if not paid by Dec. 20 they'll be locked out out of the arena.

Nothing new for the Coyotes. There's over 300K in unpaid invoices to other vendors.

Not clear whether it's just their policy or whether they just can't pay these bills. I once briefly worked for a company whose accounts payable person was forbidden from answering the phone. This is what you might call a serious red flag and I was gone shortly after I found out.

Gary Bettman is trying to keep them in Arizona, but I doubt the NHL is interested in paying their bills.
   46. Ron J Posted: December 09, 2021 at 11:11 AM (#6056783)
#39 You can sensibly argue for any of Hasek, Ken Dryden, Patrick Roy or Jacques Plante I think.

Dryden's save percentage exceeded league average by a greater margin than any other. Yeah, great teams (with a great focus on team defense) and short career. He was much better than his backups and great teams don't carry passengers.

Roy's case is a combination of his innovator status and being so much better than his backups. His save percentages are not quite as dominant as Dryden or Hasek.

Hasek changed the nature of the position -- perhaps more than anybody else. He wasn't considered technically sound (which is why Mike Keenan wouldn't play him much -- same kind of thing initially happened with Tony Esposito. Keenan tells a different story now. That he saw how good Hasek was and wanted to trade Belfour and management was not on board) and ultimately demonstrated that a lot of what was believed about the technical side is just wrong. He is also Dryden's only competition in terms of save percentage relative to the league.

Plante has it all. Long career. Innovator. Really good at keeping the puck out of the net. Different time of course and no way of being certain he could have adapted to today's higher pace.
   47. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: December 09, 2021 at 12:14 PM (#6056791)
Hasek was a maniac and the closest analogue in hockey to Babe Ruth, in that he did not give a #### how the position was supposed to be played, he was going to play his way no matter what the coach thought of it. He did all the things goalies were coached from age 5 to never do: roamed around behind the net, came way out of the crease to cut down a breakaway shooter's angle, went all the way out to the blue line to attack the puck if he thought he could get to it first, overcommitted in one direction figuring he could get back in time if he turned out to be wrong, etc. He was wonderfully aggressive in a way no goalie has been before or since. In no small part because no one else has had the skill set to make it work.

The closest thing to Hasek in terms of his YOLO style of play has been Marc-Andre Fleury--who, very unusually for a goalie, was the #1 overall pick because he was billed as the Next Hasek--but Fleury wasn't that good. He was a very good shot stopper, but most of his career was plagued by comical ####-ups attempting to play the puck. Most recently the one that got him, as the reigning Vezina Trophy winner, given away to another team for nothing. He's always been phenomenally popular with teammates and fans, and his coaches have always disliked him, because he doesn't listen to them. Playin' the game my way, baybee.
   48. Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful Posted: December 09, 2021 at 07:23 PM (#6056842)
One thing about Fleury is that he has one of the greatest Clutch saves in history.. Maybe it’s just the media I read but that’s a Brunansky-esque play in the biggest moment.
   49. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: December 09, 2021 at 09:06 PM (#6056853)
All things considered that was probably the best hockey game of my lifetime, to finish out the best Stanley Cup final we've had since the 1994 Rangers-Canucks. I still can't believe Fleury made that save. As a Penguins fan, at that moment, watching as if in agonizingly slow motion as Nicklas Lidstrom--of course it would be Lidstrom--materialized in front of the loose puck, I was screaming "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" and it took several seconds for it to sink in to my consciousness that Lidstrom did not, in fact, score.

That Penguins team was very good. But the Red Wings dominated that series. Play it 100 times and they would win 80 or 85 of them. Sports is like that sometimes.

As an aside, IMO there is a very sound argument that other than Gretzky, Nicklas Lidstrom was the greatest hockey player ever. The argument in very brief is that he was the best player on the ice almost every second he was on the ice, playing nearly 30 minutes a game, for almost 20 years. He was a great, great player at his peak--and his peak was between about 1994 and 2011. Besides being a defenseman, he suffers a bit in perception, I think, due to a form of Carlos Beltran disease: he made it look so easy. Like he wasn't even really exerting himself. With the sole possible exception of Gretzky, I've never seen instincts quite like his, not even from Crosby. You'd watch him play his usual 29 minutes and come away swearing to god he was clairvoyant. He rarely had to go full throttle, because he was always a step ahead of the play. And he just never made mistakes. Rarely spectacular, but he was a Good Play metronome on both ends of the ice.

Orr was better, sure. But not by all that much, and Lidstrom's career was 125% longer.
   50. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: December 10, 2021 at 12:33 AM (#6056871)
It looked so easy for Lidstrom because he interfered with every single player who dumped the puck in and tried to skate by him.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic.

Kind of.
   51. Paul d mobile Posted: December 10, 2021 at 09:13 AM (#6056881)
Thanks for the input - fun when the stats back up your perception. As much as I wish the 98 Olympics had gone another way, man was Hasek good.
   52. Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful Posted: December 10, 2021 at 01:26 PM (#6056898)
Man the Oilers are terrifying to play against. The Bruins got a great win against them last night but the entire experience was terrifying. I realize McDavid is The Chosen One (and rightly so) but man oh man is Draisaitl a force of nature. That dude was just everywhere all night.

And they aren't a one line time by any stretch. Nugent-Hopkins is awfully good in his own right and Hyman is pretty slick and their defensemen join the rush as often as not. That said they remind more than a bit of the '92-'94 Red Wings (give or take a year or two). There is a wealth of offensive talent but I don't know if the defense and goaltending is there to make a run. But man, no lead is safe against those guys.
   53. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: December 10, 2021 at 05:13 PM (#6056932)
The Oilers and Maple Leafs are the two really fun teams to watch--no lead is ever safe, in either direction, where those teams are involved. 5-1 after two periods, you'd better just keep watching.

Unfortunately the all offense/no defense setup is a recipe for quickly exiting the playoffs, because in the playoffs penalties other than Puck Over Glass and really obvious tripping are no longer called.
   54. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: December 11, 2021 at 01:32 AM (#6056980)
The Oilers and Maple Leafs are the two really fun teams to watch--no lead is ever safe, in either direction, where those teams are involved. 5-1 after two periods, you'd better just keep watching.

Unfortunately the all offense/no defense setup is a recipe for quickly exiting the playoffs, because in the playoffs penalties other than Puck Over Glass and really obvious tripping are no longer called.


The Leafs aren't really like that this year. They are 12th in goals per game and 5th in goals against. They are actually a pretty sound defensive team for the most part. The Oilers are 4th in goals for and 20th in goals against.
   55. John DiFool2 Posted: December 11, 2021 at 10:17 AM (#6056994)
Loved Nicky and he was great, but he wasn't even the best defenseman on his own team. Before his accident Vladdie K was the best defensive defenseman I ever saw; he'd just completely disrupt and shut down offensive attacks in their tracks.

Can't forget Brodeur, esp. since he was the best puckhandling goalie ever. Trapezoid rule and all that.
   56. The Duke Posted: December 11, 2021 at 04:01 PM (#6057020)
What exactly was the ruling in the sabres-rangers game. It clearly looks like the Sabres player was offside - now the NHL days the overturn was wrong. I don’t get it
   57. The Duke Posted: December 11, 2021 at 04:15 PM (#6057022)
What exactly was the ruling in the sabres-rangers game. It clearly looks like the Sabres player was offside - now the NHL days the overturn was wrong. I don’t get it
   58. Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful Posted: December 11, 2021 at 05:47 PM (#6057034)
The ruling was offsides. The issue was the puck wasn't being touched during the time Dahlin was still in the zone so it shouldn't have been offsides. If you watch the play the only play offsides is Dahlin, he's still off when the puck enters the zone but crucially no one is touching the puck at that point so when he touches the blue line that should negate the offsides (since no one else had entered yet).
   59. APNY Posted: December 11, 2021 at 07:28 PM (#6057041)
They didn't say it wasn't offsides, just that is was inconclusive and therefore should not have been overturned.

Kind of funny that is a season that they are celebrating their crazy play-by-play man, the one call against the Sabres he didn't wine endlessly about turned out to be handled incorrectly.
   60. Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful Posted: December 13, 2021 at 10:56 AM (#6057164)
Flames aren't playing this week as they've had an outbreak and there were concerns about what would happen if they left Canada then wouldn't be able to get back in.
   61. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: December 14, 2021 at 01:23 PM (#6057339)
I'm really worried they aren't going to let players go to the Olympics. Or that many players will opt out (Robin Lehner already has). Don't get me wrong; I don't find it unreasonable that players would be cautious in heading over there. But I really enjoy watching best-on-best Olympic hockey. It's the closest thing we get to All Star games, since the one the NHL puts on is a joke.

But with COVID still rearing its ugly head, I could see the league saying no completely. That would be a huge disappointment.
   62. Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful Posted: December 14, 2021 at 01:52 PM (#6057346)
I was listening to a podcast the other day and they noted that for the first time they've recently heard players express some skepticism. Apparently the big concern for a lot of the players is that a positive test requires like a three week quarantine in China before you can come back so the players are starting to hesitate for that reason. I agree, I'd love to see it but I doubt it will happen.

I miss the old Canada Cup/World Cup. I assume there were issues between the NHLPA and owners about it that caused it to die but that was such a fun tournament.
   63. Random Transaction Generator Posted: December 14, 2021 at 04:19 PM (#6057377)
that was such a fun tournament


The last one, where they had "Team North America" and "Team Europe" was a blast.

Team NA was all the Canadian/American players under 23:

G: Hellebuyck/Gibson/Murray

D: Ekblad/Gostisbehere/Jones/Murray/Reilly/Trouba/Parayko

LW: Gaudreau/Miller/Saad

C: McDavid/Matthews/Eichel/Scheifele/Nugent-Hopkins/Couturier/Trocheck

RW: MacKinnon/Drouin/Larkin

That's a bonkers lineup. They missed out on the playoffs because of a tie-breaker, but everyone would have loved to see them play Team Canada.
   64. Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful Posted: December 15, 2021 at 09:45 AM (#6057428)
The Bruins got waxed last night. That was hideous but after that road trip hard to be too upset.

WTF is up with the Senators though? They've won 5 out of 6 including a 4-0 over Tampa on Saturday and 8-2 over Florida last night? Have they figured something out or is this just random #### happening?
   65. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: December 15, 2021 at 11:46 AM (#6057446)
Some of it is playing a little bit better, some of it is getting actual goaltending (Forsberg is back up to his save percentage from the last few years - Matt Murray was awful), but most of it seems random. They're still getting outchanced most nights, but non-putrid goaltending and some bounces here and there and they're winning. Outside of the Florida win, this doesn't look the same as their run at the end of last year where they looked like a team turning the corner a bit.

I don't watch much of their play, so I couldn't tell you if they've changed anything about their style or line combinations that might signal a reason for the improvement.
   66. Snowboy Posted: December 19, 2021 at 01:47 AM (#6057966)
Perhaps I should be posting this in the resident covid thread, but I'll do it here anyway.
My family in London ONT cancelled Christmas today, second year in a row.
As mentioned above, the Flames are shut down. 18 players, 30 overall in the organization including head coach, into isolation. Four games postponed already, they won't be allowed together until maybe the new year.
Habs played to an empty arena this week. Restrictions in Toronto, Ottawa has cancelled games, Leafs@Canucks postponed tonight after nine Leafs test positive.
I don't intend to spoil this gem of a thread with political or medical analysis. I'm just reporting that hysteria is high again in Canada, and I'll be surprised if the NHL players (or any Canadian athletes) go to China in a few weeks for the Olympics.
   67. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: December 21, 2021 at 01:10 PM (#6058217)
The NHL season is getting blown up. I can't see the players going to the Olympics.

The bigger question that some have started to raise (and I guess is being discussed in other sports) is: when does this just become a fact of life for the NHL and not worth canceling games over? All* the players are vaccinated and while there have been some players who have gotten sick from COVID, I'm not aware of any severe cases for vaccinated players. Players have mentioned possibly testing and quarantining only those who are symptomatic. I usually find myself in the middle of these types of things. I want people to be safe, and want to protect others, so I understand the impulse to continue to treat any positive cases, symptomatic or not, as a reason for quarantine. On the other hand, if everyone* at the rink is vaccinated and is willing to accept the very small risk that not only do they contract COVID but are symptomatic and significantly ill, why shouldn't they keep on going? It's an interesting discussion to have, although it's framed by the point that this is professional sports and is hardly a vital service.

* I think there are still one or two holdouts. Mackenzie Blackwood and Tyler Bertuzzi were the only two I was aware of.
   68. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: December 21, 2021 at 03:31 PM (#6058252)
And there it is - the NHL will not send players to the Olympics and will most likely be using the planned break to make up games that have been postponed. As a fan I hate it, but it's probably for the best.
   69. John DiFool2 Posted: January 05, 2022 at 02:06 PM (#6059730)
Asking here, since I can't see a recent Primer Dugout...where did the NFL thread go?
   70. Ron J Posted: January 05, 2022 at 02:23 PM (#6059737)
Probably expired.
   71. Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful Posted: January 06, 2022 at 10:05 AM (#6059892)
Not any kind of major surprise but Tuukka Rask is officially a member of the Providence Bruins. He'll start tomorrow. No word on how long it will take him to get back into game shape.
   72. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: January 06, 2022 at 12:55 PM (#6059937)
I saw somewhere that he's targeting a week. I'm not sure if that's realistic, but I suspect he's been keeping himself in shape.
   73. The Mighty Quintana Posted: January 06, 2022 at 01:28 PM (#6059945)
Good news, I think he needs two more solid years to get any HOF love.
   74. The Mighty Quintana Posted: January 06, 2022 at 01:29 PM (#6059946)
Well, and that darn Cup...
   75. Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful Posted: January 24, 2022 at 11:10 AM (#6062220)
Thread is reopened! Keith Yandle ties the record tonight and breaks the record tomorrow.
   76. The Yankee Clapper Posted: January 24, 2022 at 05:29 PM (#6062296)
Some chatter whether Ovechkin can break Gretzy's goal record, which in this day and age would be astounding. Nay: he's coming off of a 24 goal season, has missed substantial time last two seasons (Covid season didn't help any way you slice it), is still 150 short. Yea: He's got 15 in 19 games this year, and if he can pop out 50 goals this go-around he'll be ~113 short going into his age 37 season.
Now looking like Ovechkin will have another 50+ goal season, which will close the gap with Gretzky more rapidly than the skeptics probably thought. One of Ovie’s better seasons, too, by +/- & assists, and he still looks more likely to injure someone than be injured. Seems likely that he’ll get the career goals record, but I haven’t checked the betting odds.
   77. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: January 24, 2022 at 08:04 PM (#6062319)
I expect the Flyers to send Yandle down to the AHL as soon as he breaks the record, just to provide some symmetry with Doug Jarvis.
   78. The Duke Posted: January 24, 2022 at 11:07 PM (#6062350)
Blues goalie controversy gets a lot of wood on the fire tonight. Husso three great starts and tonight Binnington gives up 7 goals in two periods before mercifully getting pulled for third period.

Blues sign Binnington to big LT contract and he immediately regresses to one of the worst goalies in the league .
   79. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: January 25, 2022 at 01:52 AM (#6062359)
As a Duck fan, I'm not complaining at all, but boy, Tuukka Rask needs to go back in the oven and bake a little longer. He looked terrible tonight (and by his numbers, has seemingly looked that way since his return).
   80. Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful Posted: January 25, 2022 at 08:46 AM (#6062373)
Tuukka was great the other night but he's not at game speed yet. He's definitely been below expectations so far. The Bruins rushed him, he didn't play any games in the minor leagues after major surgery. He was supposed to play a couple but COVID postponed the games. I'm kind of looking at him like a hitter who misses spring training. I'm not worried about the bad April and just assume he'll pick it up in May. Tuukka is one guy who should benefit from the revised schedule. Taking February off would be bad but now being able to keep playing I expect him to be back to normal mid-February or so.

The other problem last night is the Bruins just played terribly. It's weird, they had a 5-2 homestand and looked frankly dominant. Their two losses were absolute shitshows though. Against Carolina we were invisible (and while Tuukka got lit up it wasn't his fault, frankly it should have been worse) and last night a lot of little mistakes (taking nothing away from Anaheim who played very well).

I think the Bruins need another defenseman still. Not having Grzelyck last night was a big problem, him and McAvoy are an absolute shutdown pairing right now but the other four have been inconsistent.

As a side note, in what universe was that NOT a five minute major on Steen? I mean when Jack Edwards and Andy Brickley are saying in real time it's a five minute major and the entire between period studio crew agree that the Bruin player should have been called for the major that's pretty clear.
   81. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: January 25, 2022 at 02:02 PM (#6062431)
As a side note, in what universe was that NOT a five minute major on Steen? I mean when Jack Edwards and Andy Brickley are saying in real time it's a five minute major and the entire between period studio crew agree that the Bruin player should have been called for the major that's pretty clear.


I don't want to be a homer, but I was pretty upset about that call reversal. The Ducks acting head coach (Eakins is out on protocol), Geoff Ward, said the explanation the ref gave him was that there was no injury on the play. First of all, if there wasn't an injury it was pure luck since the hit was brutal and put his face right into the dasher. They should punish based on the severity of the hit and the amount of danger it put the player in, not whether God intervened and kept Deslauriers from being broken. Second, the first point is moot since THERE WAS AN ACTUAL INJURY. Deslauriers left and didn't return. I don't get that one either.

The Ducks played fairly well last night, but they also had a number of mistakes that the Bruins just didn't capitalize on - some were good saves by Gibson and some were fumbled pucks or bad shots. And Rask just couldn't track the puck. Two of those goals (the Lundestrom shortie and Getzlaf's goal) should be stopped by an NHL goaltender. But hey, after a rough stretch where I thought the Ducks were going to revert to the team everyone thought they'd be this season, they pasted the Lightning 5-1 and then beat the Bruins on the road in a fairly well-played game. If they can get 7 or 8 points on their current five-game road trip, they'll be in good shape heading into the All Star break.

I just worry that means the Ducks won't trade any of their pending UFAs. And God forbid they make any short-term acquisitions. Even if they sneak into the playoffs, they're not going anywhere.
   82. Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful Posted: January 25, 2022 at 03:20 PM (#6062448)
Geoff Ward, said the explanation the ref gave him was that there was no injury on the play.


Jack Edwards made the point on the Bruin broadcast that if that's what caused them to reverse it that it was terrible. As he said there is already too much diving and incentive to go down in the game, Deslauriers should be applauded for not making more of it and it should have been a Major.

The big play in the game, or sequence, for me was when Gibson kept the stick down on Pastrnak's break in then a moment later Rask didn't on the shorthanded goal. That should have been 1-1 instead it was 2-0.
   83. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: January 25, 2022 at 04:29 PM (#6062460)
That might be the first time I've ever agreed with something Jack Edwards said.
   84. The Duke Posted: March 01, 2022 at 12:56 PM (#6066516)
Anyone have any trade predictions yet ?
   85. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: March 08, 2022 at 10:36 PM (#6067104)
The Leafs are playing a brand of hockey that is unlikely to lead to much postseason succes, as they are scoring a ton of goals while also giving up a lot.

Auston Matthews has now scored 36 goals in his last 37 games, after scoring only 7 in 17 games to start the year. He's the best goalscorer in the league right now.
   86. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: March 08, 2022 at 10:56 PM (#6067105)
Anyone have any trade predictions yet ?
the flyers will make numerous inexplicably self-destructive decisions, and the resulting damage will, somehow, look even worse with hindsight.
   87. Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful Posted: March 09, 2022 at 12:29 AM (#6067110)
85 - yeah it’s hard to see the Leafs as a meaningful threat. They can score enough to win a series but I can’t see them going particularly deep unless Campbell reverts pretty dramatically to his early season form. Even then the defense just looks too thin. Edmonton are in the same boat.
   88. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: March 09, 2022 at 03:14 PM (#6067151)
A group of Black Canadian intellectuals and churchmen of the time looked at the sport, and saw the same thing, and decided that simply because things were the way they were, that wasn’t how they had to be. So they started their own league, the Coloured Hockey League of the Maritimes, which existed just long enough to invent much of what’s best about the modern game—before it was killed off by white business interests. As a result of its short lifespan, the CHL doesn’t get a prominent place in most tellings of hockey’s story, but its legacy is undeniable.
...
It’s difficult to understand how fully the league fell out of the public consciousness. Even descendants of CHL players have been surprised to learn how influential their forefathers were in the development of Canada’s national sport. Much easier to figure out is why the league went out of business.

Most sports league failures can be attributed to some combination of managerial incompetence, over-expansion, or waning public interest. The CHL had none of these issues. A decade into its existence it was still selling out arenas across Nova Scotia with a popular, unique brand of fast-paced and action-packed hockey. No, what killed the league was politics.
...
In response to Kinney and other local black leaders’ attempts to derail their passion project, Nova Scotian businessmen went scorched earth on the CHL. They refused to have anything more to do with the league, refusing to allow any mention of it in newspapers and banning its teams from renting rinks.

this is good ####.
   89. 57i66135 is a hard word for me. Posted: March 18, 2022 at 01:07 PM (#6068249)
the flyers will make numerous inexplicably self-destructive decisions, and the resulting damage will, somehow, look even worse with hindsight.
told ya:
Atlanta Thrashers @NotThrashers
BREAKING: The Atlanta Thrashers have acquired Claude Giroux, pending trade call
   90. Ron J Posted: March 18, 2022 at 01:23 PM (#6068254)
#89 A 34 year old on a terrible team and playing OK. This was one of the most widely predicted moves. Can't see this one being damaging in the long term. In the short term, a bad team gets worse.
   91. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: April 05, 2022 at 12:40 AM (#6070376)
Auston Matthews has scored 47 goals in his last 47 games, and 17 goals in his last 13. He has tied the all time single season goal record for the Toronto Maple Leafs and there's still 13 games left in the season.
   92. Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful Posted: April 05, 2022 at 08:15 AM (#6070386)
People who watch the Leafs more than I do tell me it's not just the goals (though that's a stupid pace) but the fact that he's doing it all over the ice.
   93. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: May 11, 2022 at 12:44 PM (#6076265)
Yesterday, Auston Matthews played a realy great game. He scored the winning goal. He was not perfect as he was on the ice for Tampa's third goal and he could have played better. But he played 24 minutes, was a physical presence, was very good defensively, and you just felt his presence on the ice when he was on. Very impressive game.
   94. Snowboy Posted: May 11, 2022 at 07:57 PM (#6076354)
Russlan I agree, Matthews played well. He hasn't done that great so far in this series, and I saw a small but important change last night in that he and Marner were sent out for the opening faceoff. That got his engine started, and he kept his motor running all night.

I can't argue with sending out Tavares to take the first faceoff in any game. And some (like Tampa last night) will send out their third line in a big game, just until the dust settles. If they win the faceoff and dump it in, the first line will come over the boards, and it's go time, tally ho! But a problem for Matthews (I think) has been that Tavares' line stays out (again, who can argue?) and then Leafs get an early penalty, and Matthews doesn't kill penalties, and before you know it it's halfway through the first period before he really gets on the ice. At this point in his career, Auston Matthews is like a thoroughbred. He works himself up into a lather, and needs to get let out of the gate. That happened last night.

(The idea of starting a second or third line in an important game is not new. Kelvington's Barry Melrose did it when he coached the LA Kings, until one day during their 1993 playoff run Pat Conacher (and Charlie Huddy) went in to talk to the coach. It's a story from Kelly Hrudey. Conacher said "while I appreciate the trust and the support, coach, we need to get Gretzky out there. Right away." Melrose listened and made a change.)
   95. Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful Posted: May 11, 2022 at 09:10 PM (#6076370)
Yeah I don’t watch much of hte Leafs but it seems to me they should be doing whatever maximizes Matthews. He can be a force when he’s rolling, he’s not a wispy little winger out there.

The Bruins are kind of the opposite. They had a lot of success mid season in part from starting their third line every night (Coyle-Smith-Frederic). Let those guys bang and then roll out the Bergeron line. Now to your point snowboy Bergeron/Marchand are also their primary penalty killers and PP guys so an early penalty doesn’t impact them much.
   96. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: May 12, 2022 at 11:21 PM (#6076514)
The Leafs have now lost 8 straight games where a win would have allowed them to advance. I really don't think there's much chance they will win Game 7 against the Lightning. The Lightning are really good and the Leafs seemingly never win these games. Horrible loss today.
   97. Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful Posted: May 13, 2022 at 10:24 AM (#6076524)
First goal in Toronto is going to be huge. If the Leafs get it the place will be rocking, if Tampa gets it that crowd is going to be tighter than a drum.
   98. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: May 13, 2022 at 11:51 AM (#6076538)
Assuming that the Leafs had a roughly 50% chance to win those 8 games, the chances that they would lose all 8 of them is 1/256.

Only the Leafs, man.
   99. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: May 14, 2022 at 09:58 PM (#6076746)
Deep sigh.
   100. Snowboy Posted: May 16, 2022 at 01:25 AM (#6076942)
Flop...or flip!
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