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Monday, June 01, 2015

OT: Monthly NBA Thread - June 2015

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: trusting the Red Sox process.

The District Attorney Posted: June 01, 2015 at 11:11 AM | 3045 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   1. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: June 01, 2015 at 11:29 AM (#4968203)
It's June, and the Warriors are still playing.

That's all.
   2. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 01, 2015 at 11:54 AM (#4968233)
That it's June and the season isn't over smells funny.
   3. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 01, 2015 at 11:56 AM (#4968237)
Repeating from previous thread:

On the Clock: MIN (aberg) (Still. What is taking so long?*)

1. MIN (aberg) - Karl Towns, University of Kentucky
2. LAL (Hombre and RR) - D'Angelo Russell, The Ohio State University
3. PHI (STEAGLES) - Jahlil Okafor, Duke University
4. NYK (NJ) - Justise Winslow, Duke University
5. ORL (JJ1986) - Emmanuel Mudiay, Guangdong Tigers
6. SAC (theboyqueen) - Willie Cauley-Stein, University of Kentucky
7. DEN (Amit) - Mario Hezonja, FC Barcelona Basquet
8. DET (smileyy) - Kristaps Porzingis, Baloncesto Sevilla
9. CHA (Votto) - Devin Booker, University of Kentucky
10. MIA (stevegamer) - Stanley Johnson, University of Arizona
11. IND (Zeth) - Myles Turner, University of Texas (traded to UTA)
12. UTA (Tom Cervo/Booey) - Kelly Oubre, University of Kansas (traded to IND)
13. PHO (Oriole Tragic) - Bobby Portis, University of Arkansas
14. OKC (Thok) - Cameron Payne, Murray State University
15. ATL (Rickey) - Tyus Jones, Duke University
16. BOS (Joe C.) - R.J. Hunter, Georgia State University
17. MIL (Griffey) - Frank Kaminsky, University of Wisconsin
18. HOU (Dandy) - Delon Wright, University of Utah
19. WAS (JC in DC) - Robert Upshaw, University of Washington
20. TOR (Der-K) - Sam Dekker, University of Wisconsin
21. IND (Zeth) from HOU via DAL - Montrezl Harrell, University of Louisville
22. LAL (Hombre) from PHO via CHI - Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, University of Arizona
23. POR (Lord Palmerston) - Justin Anderson, University of Virginia
24. CLE (Bitter Mouse) - Trey Lyles, University of Kentucky
25. MIN (aberg) from MEM
26. SAS (Quaker)
27. PHO (Oriole Tragic) from LAL
28. BOS (Joe C)
29. BKN (District Attorney)
30. GSW (Chris P)

31. MEM (Maxwn) from MIN
32. DAL (Arjun) from HOU
33. BOS (JoeC)
34. PHO (Oriole Tragic) from LAL
35. PHI (steagles)
36. MIN (aberg)
37. PHI (steagles)
38. DET (smiley)
39. CHA (Votto)
40. MIA (stevegamer)
41. BKN (DA)
42. UTA (BooeyCervo)
43. HOU (Dandy) from IND
44. PHO (Oriole Tragic)
45. BOS (JoeC)
46. MIL (Griffey)
47. PHI (steagles)
48. OKC (Thok)
49. WAS (JC in DC)
50. ATL (sam)
51. ORL (JJ1986)
52. IND (Zeth) from HOU via DAL
53. CLE (Bitter Mouse)
54. UTA (BooeyCervo)
55. SAS (Quaker)
56. NOP
57. DEN (Amit)
58. PHI (steagles)
59. ATL (sam)
60. PHI (steagles)

Transactions:
HOU #32, Motiejunas to DAL
DAL #21, 52 to HOU

UTA #12 (Kelly Oubre), Alec Burks to IND
IND Myles Turner (#11) to UTA

CHI #22, Taj Gibson to PHO
PHO Markieff Morris, P.J Tucker to CHI

PHO #22 (via CHI) to LAL
LAL #27, #34 to PHO

HOU #21 (via DAL), #52 (via DAL), Kostas Papanikoloau to IND
IND #43, C.J. Miles to HOU

MEM #25 to MIN
MIN #31, Nemanja Bjelica to MEM

* Pestering aberg for humor only. I am not in a hurry at all. Take your time.
   4. aberg Posted: June 01, 2015 at 12:00 PM (#4968241)
Sorry for the mock draft delay everyone. I wasn't keeping up with the thread over the weekend without games happening- my bad.

MINNESOTA TIMBERWOLVES SELECT - PG JERIAN GRANT, NOTRE DAME

I outlined some of the reasons that I wanted to move up earlier- a logjam at PF was going to prevent me from getting minutes for all of Bennett, Payne, and Bjelica, and I needed some additional roster space to even make the rest of my picks (other than pure stash guys). Also, unless you assume Gary Neal comes back, the Wolves desperately need some depth at PG. Lavine is miscast in that role, and Rubio has not stayed healthy for full seasons. Getting a young guard who can develop behind Rubio and maybe spot start here and there is the most obvious hole on the roster after drafting Towns.

That answers the "why a PG" question, but not the "why Grant" question. At this point, I think it's more about value. There are things I like about all three of Jones, Wright, and Grant, and I would have been happy with any of them this late. Even though Grant is a bit old for a rookie (22), he comes into the league with ready-made PNR and playmaking skills. He's not an elite shooter, but he was 35% on a fair volume of threes for his career, so he's not the kind of guy who defenses can completely ignore. He has the size to be a solid NBA defender, and he has demonstrated that he can get into the paint and draw fouls. Even without much projection, I think that's a very good backup and maybe a marginal starter right away. That seems like very good value in the late first to me.
   5. EddieA Posted: June 01, 2015 at 12:11 PM (#4968249)
In games I saw this year, the only shot Grant missed at a critical situation with the clock on his back was the last one of his college career. I think it was 9 of 10. He should have been ACC player of the year.
   6. Quaker Posted: June 01, 2015 at 12:59 PM (#4968282)
I work til ~7 tonight. I'll make my pick before I go to bed. It will be one of Wood, Looney or Luwawu.
   7. theboyqueen Posted: June 01, 2015 at 02:28 PM (#4968363)
Anxious to see what the Wolves get in round two because Towns and Grant is a hell of a start. Rubio is only 24, two years older than Jerian Grant. There is going to be so much young talent on that team next year. Seems like they would do well to hire a real coach.
   8. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 01, 2015 at 02:33 PM (#4968368)
Seems like they would do well to hire a real coach.


I think that is a bit harsh. Flip is an OK coach, though I have been fairly consistent in wanting him to hire someone else (who likes Defense and the three point shot, hopefully).
   9. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 01, 2015 at 03:05 PM (#4968405)
I've been waiting for Grant to go off the board and as a Spurs sorta-fan was hoping for him as Mills potential replacement / Ginobili potential padawan in this hypothetical world. Sniped! Though it sounds like Quaker was thinking in another direction anyway.

I think he'll be the steal of the draft. In the world where everyone was super aggro on Lord Palmerston, I was ready to step in and pick him for the Blazers (Anderson was a close #2 on my thought process for that team, and I think that's a good pick by LP for Portland too.)
   10. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 01, 2015 at 03:10 PM (#4968410)
On the Clock: Quaker (SAS)

On the Clock: MIN (aberg) (Still. What is taking so long?*)

1. MIN (aberg) - Karl Towns, University of Kentucky
2. LAL (Hombre and RR) - D'Angelo Russell, The Ohio State University
3. PHI (STEAGLES) - Jahlil Okafor, Duke University
4. NYK (NJ) - Justise Winslow, Duke University
5. ORL (JJ1986) - Emmanuel Mudiay, Guangdong Tigers
6. SAC (theboyqueen) - Willie Cauley-Stein, University of Kentucky
7. DEN (Amit) - Mario Hezonja, FC Barcelona Basquet
8. DET (smileyy) - Kristaps Porzingis, Baloncesto Sevilla
9. CHA (Votto) - Devin Booker, University of Kentucky
10. MIA (stevegamer) - Stanley Johnson, University of Arizona
11. IND (Zeth) - Myles Turner, University of Texas (traded to UTA)
12. UTA (Tom Cervo/Booey) - Kelly Oubre, University of Kansas (traded to IND)
13. PHO (Oriole Tragic) - Bobby Portis, University of Arkansas
14. OKC (Thok) - Cameron Payne, Murray State University
15. ATL (Rickey) - Tyus Jones, Duke University
16. BOS (Joe C.) - R.J. Hunter, Georgia State University
17. MIL (Griffey) - Frank Kaminsky, University of Wisconsin
18. HOU (Dandy) - Delon Wright, University of Utah
19. WAS (JC in DC) - Robert Upshaw, University of Washington
20. TOR (Der-K) - Sam Dekker, University of Wisconsin
21. IND (Zeth) from HOU via DAL - Montrezl Harrell, University of Louisville
22. LAL (Hombre) from PHO via CHI - Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, University of Arizona
23. POR (Lord Palmerston) - Justin Anderson, University of Virginia
24. CLE (Bitter Mouse) - Trey Lyles, University of Kentucky
25. MIN (aberg) from MEM - Jerian Grant, University of Notre Dame
26. SAS (Quaker)
27. PHO (Oriole Tragic) from LAL
28. BOS (Joe C)
29. BKN (District Attorney)
30. GSW (Chris P)

31. MEM (Maxwn) from MIN
32. DAL (Arjun) from HOU
33. BOS (JoeC)
34. PHO (Oriole Tragic) from LAL
35. PHI (steagles)
36. MIN (aberg)
37. PHI (steagles)
38. DET (smiley)
39. CHA (Votto)
40. MIA (stevegamer)
41. BKN (DA)
42. UTA (BooeyCervo)
43. HOU (Dandy) from IND
44. PHO (Oriole Tragic)
45. BOS (JoeC)
46. MIL (Griffey)
47. PHI (steagles)
48. OKC (Thok)
49. WAS (JC in DC)
50. ATL (sam)
51. ORL (JJ1986)
52. IND (Zeth) from HOU via DAL
53. CLE (Bitter Mouse)
54. UTA (BooeyCervo)
55. SAS (Quaker)
56. NOP
57. DEN (Amit)
58. PHI (steagles)
59. ATL (sam)
60. PHI (steagles)

Transactions:
HOU #32, Motiejunas to DAL
DAL #21, 52 to HOU

UTA #12 (Kelly Oubre), Alec Burks to IND
IND Myles Turner (#11) to UTA

CHI #22, Taj Gibson to PHO
PHO Markieff Morris, P.J Tucker to CHI

PHO #22 (via CHI) to LAL
LAL #27, #34 to PHO

HOU #21 (via DAL), #52 (via DAL), Kostas Papanikoloau to IND
IND #43, C.J. Miles to HOU

MEM #25 to MIN
MIN #31, Nemanja Bjelica to MEM
   11. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 01, 2015 at 03:12 PM (#4968412)
One other thing to keep in mind with Grant is that Brey's system doesn't really, uh, play defense. I think he'll be a better defender than he showed in college. He has the tools to do it.
   12. Rally Posted: June 01, 2015 at 03:15 PM (#4968414)
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/6/1/8697181/dwyane-wade-heat-union-salary-superstars-war

Reading TFA, I can understand the argument that Lebron, Durant, or Anthony Davis are worth 50 million or more - almost 20 years after Jordan was paid 30 million.

But Dwyane Wade? Sure, he's sacrificed a bit in the past. Next year he's set to earn 16.1 million at age 34. WS/48 for the last 4 seasons: .227-.192-.149-.086. Games played, last 3 - 69-54-62. If I'm Pat Riley, I'm secretly hoping he opts out and signs somewhere else.

How much would people here pay to have Wade on their team? From a pure future projection standpoint, I don't think I'd go higher than about 2/16. At this point the question is not whether Wade is a superstar but whether he's even a good player. Wade to the Knicks would be an Isiah Thomas type move.
   13. aberg Posted: June 01, 2015 at 03:23 PM (#4968419)
@AS - I agree that a lot of Grant's defense is projection. That's true for ND guys, and for a lot of college guys in general (particularly on the perimeter). More than anything, I look at size, length, and quickness. If they have those elements and are put into a good system, it's basically on them to develop.
   14. theboyqueen Posted: June 01, 2015 at 04:24 PM (#4968468)
What about Wade to the Cavs?
   15. theboyqueen Posted: June 01, 2015 at 04:26 PM (#4968471)
Also, I didn't mean that Flip isn't generally a decent coach, it just seems like now is the time to hire the coach that is going to develop all these young guys be there when they get good and I just can't see Flip as that guy.
   16. theboyqueen Posted: June 01, 2015 at 04:45 PM (#4968486)
Chad Ford just posted some video of KAT and WCS shooting threes and my goodness they look beautiful. I'm starting to think Towns is Horford at minimum but sky's the freaking limit. I'm also starting to doubt WCS will still be around at #6 for the Kings, which makes me sad.
   17. aberg Posted: June 01, 2015 at 04:55 PM (#4968490)
I'm fully immersed in "try not to freak out of the Wolves don't take KAT" mode. And I'm not sure it's working.
   18. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 01, 2015 at 05:29 PM (#4968511)
Chad Ford just posted some video of KAT and WCS shooting threes and my goodness they look beautiful. I'm starting to think Towns is Horford at minimum but sky's the freaking limit. I'm also starting to doubt WCS will still be around at #6 for the Kings, which makes me sad.


It strikes me that there are some similarities between drafting these Kentucky players and drafting internationals. Because of Calipari's line change system they've all played much less than you'd expect players of their talent to play in college, like Euro 19 year olds on the top Euroleague teams. Dakari Johnson has taken 300 shots in his two-year career at UK! So we fall back on some of these great workouts and things. Given that this approach has been shaky on some internationals (projecting from great workouts), I feel like there might be a bit of irrational exuberance here, if not enough to bring out the hose (Towns surely deserves to be picked #1, but I wouldn't take this as that strong evidence that he's a generational prospect instead of a solid #1.)
   19. theboyqueen Posted: June 01, 2015 at 05:39 PM (#4968517)
Given that this approach has been shaky on some internationals (projecting from great workouts), I feel like there might be a bit of irrational exuberance here, if not enough to bring out the hose (Towns surely deserves to be picked #1, but I wouldn't take this as that strong evidence that he's a generational prospect instead of a solid #1.)


Maybe, but is there evidence this approach has been shaky on the Calipari guys? Cousins, Davis, and Wall are three of the top 15 guys in the NBA. MKG, Noel, Terrence Jones are really damn good. This isn't quite Yi Jianlian posting up a chair.

It's as easy to argue Calipari's system doesn't allow us to see the full potential of any of these guys.
   20. theboyqueen Posted: June 01, 2015 at 05:46 PM (#4968521)
Lakers/Knicks getting Okafor/Mudiay is my hope since they seem like the busts of this draft. A pure pick and roll guy like WCS probably doesn't fit well in the triangle, does he?
   21. Moeball Posted: June 01, 2015 at 06:29 PM (#4968541)
Since the regulars here are far more on top of drafts and such than I am, I thought I would throw this question out to you (as it's a few days before the Finals start):

-There is a thread going on over on the baseball side about best draft classes ever and which teams have drafted best - what about in the NBA? What have been the best draft years? And I guess I'm not just referring to the obvious things - if you draft a LeBron or a Jordan or a Magic, you're getting the kind of player who can almost single-handedly make your team a real contender for the title. But have there been teams that drafted multiple players in a single year where the combination of those players really turned a team around?

-Has the NBA ever had an equivalent to a Mike Piazza type situation where someone drafted way down the list and believed to not have much of a future surprised the heck out of everyone and wound up as a HOF-caliber player?
   22. sardonic Posted: June 01, 2015 at 06:35 PM (#4968544)
The 2003 is generally considered a historically good draft, and produced the following future All Stars:

Lebron James (1)
Carmelo Anthony (3)
Chris Bosh (4)
Dwyane Wade (5)
Chris Kaman (6)
David West (18)
Josh Howard (29)
Mo Williams (47)
Kyle Korver (51)

And other NBA starters/useful players in Kirk Hinrich, TJ Ford , Nick Collison, Boris Diaw, Michkael Pietrus, Luke Ridnour, Dahntay Jones, Leandro Barbosa, Carlos Delfino, Luke Walton, Steve Blake, Zaza Pachulia and James Jones.
   23. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 01, 2015 at 06:48 PM (#4968551)
As for a Piazza-type situation, there may well be some historical examples that are analogous, but the NBA Draft has been only two rounds long since 1989, so there just isn't enough draft for someone to be that low-odds a pick. Second rounders sometimes pan out, and sometimes really pan out (Ginobli and Marc Gasol, for instance), but even then they're only second-rounders. I think the NBA's version of a Piazza would be an undrafted player becoming a HoF-level guy. I think Ben Wallace might be your best comp there.

Edit: I apparently cannot spell Piazza.
   24. aberg Posted: June 01, 2015 at 07:00 PM (#4968555)
I think Ben Wallace might be your best comp there.


The ONLY thing they have in common is great hair.
   25. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 01, 2015 at 07:05 PM (#4968560)
The ONLY thing they have in common is great hair.

I dunno, I bet if Ben Wallace got ahold of a pitch he could hit it a long, long way.
   26. Quaker Posted: June 01, 2015 at 07:13 PM (#4968562)
I would 100% take Grant over any of the players remaining on the board. I'm an ND fan, so I may be biased but I think he'll be a decent pro. I don't see why he would be a Mills replacement though--Patty is signed cheap for 2 more years. I think Grant would pair well with Mills b/c Patty needs to play w/someone (currently Ginobili) who can run the offense/create shots.

If anyone wants to trade up from the early 2nd round for #26, let me know. Not asking a lot at all.

I think I want to take Luwawu, but 26 seems a bit early for him. Analytics I've seen have Looney/Wood as relatively strong prospects, fwiw.
   27. theboyqueen Posted: June 01, 2015 at 07:21 PM (#4968569)
But have there been teams that drafted multiple players in a single year where the combination of those players really turned a team around?


2012 Warriors drafted 4(!) guys who are on the current roster -- Harrison Barnes (7th), Festus Ezeli (30th), Draymond Green (35th), and Ognen Kuzmic (52nd). Pound for pound that has to rank amongst the best single draft hauls ever, and that's one year after drafting Klay Thompson at 11 and three years after drafting Steph Curry at 7.

And of course Monta Ellis was a second round pick who they traded for Andrew Bogut. This team was almost entirely assembled through incredible drafting, which makes it easy to fill in with pieces like Iguodala, Livingston, etc.
   28. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 01, 2015 at 07:50 PM (#4968586)
This team was almost entirely assembled through incredible drafting
Shout out to Ekpe Udoh.
   29. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: June 01, 2015 at 08:02 PM (#4968592)
Has the NBA ever had an equivalent to a Mike Piazza type situation where someone drafted way down the list and believed to not have much of a future surprised the heck out of everyone and wound up as a HOF-caliber player?

george gervin was drafted in i think the 4th round of the old draft
   30. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: June 01, 2015 at 08:03 PM (#4968595)
and dennis johnson was a second round pick
   31. All Oriole Tragic heard was ruff ruff Posted: June 01, 2015 at 08:04 PM (#4968596)
@BooeyCervo: One last ask, then I promise to leave you alone. My #27 for both your seconds?

@Votto: Ditto on the last ask. TJ Warren for your #39 and Troy Daniels? I'm hoping that's more than fair for Warren.
   32. theboyqueen Posted: June 01, 2015 at 08:06 PM (#4968598)
Speaking of great hair, Rodman was second round. Also both Parker and Ginobili.
   33. theboyqueen Posted: June 01, 2015 at 08:08 PM (#4968600)
Udoh was also part of the Bogut trade (as was Kwame Brown!). Shout out to the Clippers for recognizing game.
   34. Thok Posted: June 01, 2015 at 08:09 PM (#4968602)
But have there been teams that drafted multiple players in a single year where the combination of those players really turned a team around?


The Bulls picked up Horace Grant and Scottie Pippen in the 1987 draft. Granted, Pippen was obtained by a draft day trade (for Olden Polynice) and they already had this guy named Jordan.
   35. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: June 01, 2015 at 08:11 PM (#4968603)
hey, the bucks drafted alex english in the second round a thousand years ago
   36. theboyqueen Posted: June 01, 2015 at 08:13 PM (#4968604)
That Bogut trade was something else: Ellis, Udoh, and Brown for Bogut and Stephen Jackson. Jackson was then traded to the Spurs for garbage plus the pick that became Ezeli.
   37. sardonic Posted: June 01, 2015 at 08:14 PM (#4968607)
This team was almost entirely assembled through incredible drafting
Shout out to Ekpe Udoh.


Sticks out like a sore thumb huh:

2009 #7 - Steph Curry

2010 #6 - Ekpe Udoh

2011 #11 - Klay Thompson
2011 #44 - Charles Jenkins

2012 #7 - Harrison Barnes
2012 #30 - Festus Ezeli
2012 #35 - Draymond Green
2012 #52 - Ognjen Kuzmic

They traded away their 2014 (and 2017) picks to clear contracts (Richard Jefferson and Andris Biedrins) to get Andrew Iguodala. Not sure what happened to their 2013 pick, which I know went to Utah and was famously top 7 protected in 2012.
   38. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: June 01, 2015 at 08:23 PM (#4968610)
@BooeyCervo: One last ask, then I promise to leave you alone. My #27 for both your seconds?


Done!
   39. All Oriole Tragic heard was ruff ruff Posted: June 01, 2015 at 08:31 PM (#4968615)
@BooeyCervo: Excellent. Thanks for your patience.
   40. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: June 01, 2015 at 08:37 PM (#4968618)
Its early but in 2011 the Bulls drafted Mirotic 23 and Butler 30. That's pretty damn good value.
   41. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: June 01, 2015 at 09:06 PM (#4968629)
Here's hoping Hoiberg can have more of a Kerr season than a Fisher one. Fred's obviously more experienced but sounds like he's getting the exact same contract. Press conference tmrw afternoon.
   42. Quaker Posted: June 01, 2015 at 09:07 PM (#4968630)
Parker was a first round pick.
   43. Quaker Posted: June 01, 2015 at 09:19 PM (#4968635)
Spurs take Christian Wood.

Decision came down to the following:
1. I liked Luwawu but had no analytics to back up that hunch and he could easily be there in Rd. 2.
2. Looney had the best analytics but I didn't see where he would really fit in the pro game. Patrick Patterson with better defense and worse shooting? He looks good in some DE vids moving his feet, and staying in front of ppl but where is he going to fit in offensively?
3. I read somewhere that Looney's college steal numbers might be inflated by playing at the top of UCLA's zone.
4. Wood has a decent mix of good analytics and some upside. He's skinny but he boarded and blocked shots at the college level. Only hit 28% of his threes, but has a decent looking stroke and hit low 70's from the line.
5. I think Wood could become a Channing Frye type player. That would be a good value from 26.
   44. All Oriole Tragic heard was ruff ruff Posted: June 01, 2015 at 09:22 PM (#4968637)
On the Clock: UTA (BooeyCervo)

1. MIN (aberg) - Karl Towns, University of Kentucky
2. LAL (Hombre and RR) - D'Angelo Russell, The Ohio State University
3. PHI (STEAGLES) - Jahlil Okafor, Duke University
4. NYK (NJ) - Justise Winslow, Duke University
5. ORL (JJ1986) - Emmanuel Mudiay, Guangdong Tigers
6. SAC (theboyqueen) - Willie Cauley-Stein, University of Kentucky
7. DEN (Amit) - Mario Hezonja, FC Barcelona Basquet
8. DET (smileyy) - Kristaps Porzingis, Baloncesto Sevilla
9. CHA (Votto) - Devin Booker, University of Kentucky
10. MIA (stevegamer) - Stanley Johnson, University of Arizona
11. IND (Zeth) - Myles Turner, University of Texas (traded to UTA)
12. UTA (Tom Cervo/Booey) - Kelly Oubre, University of Kansas (traded to IND)
13. PHO (Oriole Tragic) - Bobby Portis, University of Arkansas
14. OKC (Thok) - Cameron Payne, Murray State University
15. ATL (Rickey) - Tyus Jones, Duke University
16. BOS (Joe C.) - R.J. Hunter, Georgia State University
17. MIL (Griffey) - Frank Kaminsky, University of Wisconsin
18. HOU (Dandy) - Delon Wright, University of Utah
19. WAS (JC in DC) - Robert Upshaw, University of Washington
20. TOR (Der-K) - Sam Dekker, University of Wisconsin
21. IND (Zeth) from HOU via DAL - Montrezl Harrell, University of Louisville
22. LAL (Hombre) from PHO via CHI - Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, University of Arizona
23. POR (Lord Palmerston) - Justin Anderson, University of Virginia
24. CLE (Bitter Mouse) - Trey Lyles, University of Kentucky
25. MIN (aberg) from MEM - Jerian Grant, University of Notre Dame
26. SAS (Quaker) - Christian Wood, UNLV
27. UTA (BooeyCervo) from PHO via LAL
28. BOS (Joe C)
29. BKN (District Attorney)
30. GSW (Chris P)

31. MEM (Maxwn) from MIN
32. DAL (Arjun) from HOU
33. BOS (JoeC)
34. PHO (Oriole Tragic) from LAL
35. PHI (STEAGLES)
36. MIN (aberg)
37. PHI (STEAGLES)
38. DET (smileyy)
39. CHA (Votto)
40. MIA (stevegamer)
41. BKN (DA)
42. PHO (Oriole Tragic) from UTA
43. HOU (Dandy) from IND
44. PHO (Oriole Tragic)
45. BOS (JoeC)
46. MIL (Griffey)
47. PHI (STEAGLES)
48. OKC (Thok)
49. WAS (JC in DC)
50. ATL (sam)
51. ORL (JJ1986)
52. IND (Zeth) from HOU via DAL
53. CLE (Bitter Mouse)
54. PHO (Oriole Tragic) from UTA
55. SAS (Quaker)
56. NOP
57. DEN (Amit)
58. PHI (STEAGLES)
59. ATL (sam)
60. PHI (STEAGLES)

Transactions:
HOU #32, Motiejunas to DAL
DAL #21, 52 to HOU

UTA #12 (Kelly Oubre), Alec Burks to IND
IND Myles Turner (#11) to UTA

CHI #22, Taj Gibson to PHO
PHO Markieff Morris, P.J Tucker to CHI

PHO #22 (via CHI) to LAL
LAL #27, #34 to PHO

HOU #21 (via DAL), #52 (via DAL), Kostas Papanikoloau to IND
IND #43, C.J. Miles to HOU

MEM #25 to MIN
MIN #31, Nemanja Bjelica to MEM

PHO #27 (via LAL) to UTA
UTA #42, #54 to PHO
   45. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 01, 2015 at 09:34 PM (#4968643)
Oriole Tragic is apparently determining to turn the Suns into Sixers West by acquiring the other half of the second round.
   46. Tin Angel Posted: June 01, 2015 at 09:34 PM (#4968644)
Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA
Chicago Bulls coach Fred Hoiberg is signing a 5-year deal worth nearly $25M, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.


edit: coke to Moses.
   47. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: June 01, 2015 at 09:36 PM (#4968645)
If you're Alvin Gentry...don't you feel some kind of way about the going rate for unproven NBA coaches being $5M a year when you got less than 4?
   48. All Oriole Tragic heard was ruff ruff Posted: June 01, 2015 at 09:38 PM (#4968648)
@Supporter: definitely lots of "from" and "via" happening. Let me know if I need to clean up the draft reset? I had it done and then Quaker picked right after I first posted it.
   49. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 01, 2015 at 09:45 PM (#4968649)
If you're Alvin Gentry...don't you feel some kind of way about the going rate for unproven NBA coaches being $5M a year when you got less than 4?


Maybe, but I also get to coach Anthony Davis, so I've got that going for me, which is nice.
   50. theboyqueen Posted: June 01, 2015 at 09:49 PM (#4968653)
That seems like a massive contract for a guy like Hoiberg. I know nothing about him, what's he supposed to be good at?
   51. theboyqueen Posted: June 01, 2015 at 09:50 PM (#4968654)
And who are the Bulls bidding against?
   52. All Oriole Tragic heard was ruff ruff Posted: June 01, 2015 at 09:51 PM (#4968655)
NOP, ORL jobs are filled. I hope Thibs doesn't end up coaching the Lakers.
   53. Booey Posted: June 01, 2015 at 10:16 PM (#4968669)
-Has the NBA ever had an equivalent to a Mike Piazza type situation where someone drafted way down the list and believed to not have much of a future surprised the heck out of everyone and wound up as a HOF-caliber player?


Not quite the same thing - and these guys weren't all the Jazz's own picks or drafted in the same year - but I always enjoyed how good Utah was from 2007-2010 (avg of 52 wins per) with a core consisting of mostly low picks. The core guys for the 2010 team that went 53-29 and made it to the 2nd round in a stacked western conference:

Deron Williams (3rd pick)
Andrei Kirilenko (24th pick)
Carlos Boozer (2nd round)
Mehmet Okur (2nd round)
Paul Millsap (2nd round)
Kyle Korver (2nd round)
Wes Matthews (undrafted)

6 of those 7 made at least one all star team (not all with the Jazz), and 4 of the all stars were 2nd round picks (and another was a late 1st). Only DWill was a lottery pick.
   54. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: June 01, 2015 at 10:27 PM (#4968676)
With the 27th pick the Utah Jazz select Kevon Looney. I'm intrigued by the fact that he's 6'9", played PG in HS, and then did quite well as a freshman playing PF for UCLA. He's raw and might simply not be an NBA player, but with the 27th pick and the Jazz roster they can afford to be patient and probably even send him to the D-League for part (or most) of 2015-16.

I also like taking a lottery ticket after trading for #27 since the last time the Jazz did this they drafted Rudy Gobert.
   55. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 01, 2015 at 10:54 PM (#4968697)
On the Clock: BOS (Joe C) with pick 28

1. MIN (aberg) - Karl Towns, University of Kentucky
2. LAL (Hombre and RR) - D'Angelo Russell, The Ohio State University
3. PHI (STEAGLES) - Jahlil Okafor, Duke University
4. NYK (NJ) - Justise Winslow, Duke University
5. ORL (JJ1986) - Emmanuel Mudiay, Guangdong Tigers
6. SAC (theboyqueen) - Willie Cauley-Stein, University of Kentucky
7. DEN (Amit) - Mario Hezonja, FC Barcelona Basquet
8. DET (smileyy) - Kristaps Porzingis, Baloncesto Sevilla
9. CHA (Votto) - Devin Booker, University of Kentucky
10. MIA (stevegamer) - Stanley Johnson, University of Arizona
11. IND (Zeth) - Myles Turner, University of Texas (traded to UTA)
12. UTA (Tom Cervo/Booey) - Kelly Oubre, University of Kansas (traded to IND)
13. PHO (Oriole Tragic) - Bobby Portis, University of Arkansas
14. OKC (Thok) - Cameron Payne, Murray State University
15. ATL (Rickey) - Tyus Jones, Duke University
16. BOS (Joe C.) - R.J. Hunter, Georgia State University
17. MIL (Griffey) - Frank Kaminsky, University of Wisconsin
18. HOU (Dandy) - Delon Wright, University of Utah
19. WAS (JC in DC) - Robert Upshaw, University of Washington
20. TOR (Der-K) - Sam Dekker, University of Wisconsin
21. IND (Zeth) from HOU via DAL - Montrezl Harrell, University of Louisville
22. LAL (Hombre) from PHO via CHI - Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, University of Arizona
23. POR (Lord Palmerston) - Justin Anderson, University of Virginia
24. CLE (Bitter Mouse) - Trey Lyles, University of Kentucky
25. MIN (aberg) from MEM - Jerian Grant, University of Notre Dame
26. SAS (Quaker) - Christian Wood, UNLV
27. UTA (BooeyCervo) from PHO via LAL - Kevon Looney, UCLA
28. BOS (Joe C)
29. BKN (District Attorney)
30. GSW (Chris P)

31. MEM (Maxwn) from MIN
32. DAL (Arjun) from HOU
33. BOS (JoeC)
34. PHO (Oriole Tragic) from LAL
35. PHI (STEAGLES)
36. MIN (aberg)
37. PHI (STEAGLES)
38. DET (smileyy)
39. CHA (Votto)
40. MIA (stevegamer)
41. BKN (DA)
42. PHO (Oriole Tragic) from UTA
43. HOU (Dandy) from IND
44. PHO (Oriole Tragic)
45. BOS (JoeC)
46. MIL (Griffey)
47. PHI (STEAGLES)
48. OKC (Thok)
49. WAS (JC in DC)
50. ATL (sam)
51. ORL (JJ1986)
52. IND (Zeth) from HOU via DAL
53. CLE (Bitter Mouse)
54. PHO (Oriole Tragic) from UTA
55. SAS (Quaker)
56. NOP
57. DEN (Amit)
58. PHI (STEAGLES)
59. ATL (sam)
60. PHI (STEAGLES)

Transactions:
HOU #32, Motiejunas to DAL
DAL #21, 52 to HOU

UTA #12 (Kelly Oubre), Alec Burks to IND
IND Myles Turner (#11) to UTA

CHI #22, Taj Gibson to PHO
PHO Markieff Morris, P.J Tucker to CHI

PHO #22 (via CHI) to LAL
LAL #27, #34 to PHO

HOU #21 (via DAL), #52 (via DAL), Kostas Papanikoloau to IND
IND #43, C.J. Miles to HOU

MEM #25 to MIN
MIN #31, Nemanja Bjelica to MEM

PHO #27 (via LAL) to UTA
UTA #42, #54 to PHO
   56. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 01, 2015 at 11:08 PM (#4968711)
Though I don't know about Utah drafting another big after trading a shooter to move up for a big earlier in the first round, I do think Looney is objectively a very good value as a lottery ticket down at #27.

Looney joins Trey Lyles as guys who went far lower in our draft than in most of the mocks. Some of them have Looney going in the lottery (There was even one that had Utah taking him up at #12) and many of them have him going ahead of Portis and Harrell.
   57. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: June 02, 2015 at 12:07 AM (#4968755)
Though I don't know about Utah drafting another big after trading a shooter to move up for a big earlier in the first round, I do think Looney is objectively a very good value as a lottery ticket down at #27.


Yeah, though in our fantasy trade I thought of Burks more as a necessary salary dump to clear cap room for Danny Green.
   58. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 02, 2015 at 12:51 AM (#4968776)
Yeah, and I imagine in the real world Burks' shoulder isn't sound and you'd have to move down in the draft to unload his contract, not up. In our pretend world where Burks' shoulder is fine, acquiring him allowed me to move Miles to jump back up in the first round for a player I wanted.
   59. theboyqueen Posted: June 02, 2015 at 01:18 AM (#4968780)
Speaking of Utah -- sadly Andrei Kirilenko has officially retired. I think he is one of the most underrated players of the last 20 years -- in his prime he could do basically everything both offensively and defensively. Draymond Green with more length and a better post game. I can't remember ever hearing about the 5x5 before him (and I haven't heard much about it since). One of the great nicknames ever too. I think he would be far better appreciated today with the +/- stats available. Imagine if today he were pushed out of position for Carlos Boozer (who, to be fair, was pretty damn good in his own right for the Jazz) what the debates would be like.

I cannot believe he is only 34, seems like he's been washed up for quite some time.
   60. theboyqueen Posted: June 02, 2015 at 01:22 AM (#4968782)
   61. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: June 02, 2015 at 01:24 AM (#4968783)
He was soooo good in his prime. Having flashy roto numbers helped his rep in some circles, I guess.
   62. theboyqueen Posted: June 02, 2015 at 01:29 AM (#4968784)
In this game, as a rookie, he started in the frontcourt and got 3 blocks on Shaq. The second half they put him on Kobe and he held him to 3 points.
   63. theboyqueen Posted: June 02, 2015 at 01:35 AM (#4968787)
Between his NBA and international careers (played in 3 Olympics and got a bronze in 2012 though he was way past his prime at that point, and was the Eurobasket 2007 MVP, when they defeated the host country Spain) he seems like a deserving hall of famer but I would be shocked if he made it.
   64. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: June 02, 2015 at 05:01 AM (#4968800)
i thought fred hoiberg was black. i have apparently never seen a picture of fred hoiberg before.

Looney joins Trey Lyles as guys who went far lower in our draft than in most of the mocks. Some of them have Looney going in the lottery (There was even one that had Utah taking him up at #12) and many of them have him going ahead of Portis and Harrell.
i think the people in this thread tend to prefer players who have a specific position. portis and harrell are PFs, whereas lyles, looney and christian wood are kinda tweenerish.
   65. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: June 02, 2015 at 06:01 AM (#4968802)
If you're Alvin Gentry...don't you feel some kind of way about the going rate for unproven NBA coaches being $5M a year when you got less than 4?

Yes.

That seems like a massive contract for a guy like Hoiberg. I know nothing about him, what's he supposed to be good at? And who are the Bulls bidding against?

Offense. Iowa St has run a pro-style, uptempo offense, which isn't exactly common in college ball. He's had a decent amount of success there, and he's been able to plug in different types of players (IIRC, they've been big on JUCO transfers to get the program off the ground). Had a decent amount of success, especially considering the school. It actually sounds like a good fit for most of the current Bulls roster (maybe not Pau, but he should be playing less next year regardless).

That is the going rate for coaches like him (I mentioned before that Kerr and Fisher both got that same exact deal last year, and neither of them had ever coached before). As for who the Bulls are bidding against, well, it came out he made the interview rounds (he interviewed in both ORL and NO before the Bulls fired Thibs) and that the Bulls had a "gentlemen's agreement" before they fired Thibs. Also, they're competing against his current job - his alma mater in his home town, it was going to take a good bump to get him to move. But really, what does it matter what they pay him? Only way it would matter is if he bombs and they're too cheap to fire him, but considering they're eating so much of Thibs' deal and paying this much, it gives me a little hope (perhaps misguided), the Bulls might actually push into the tax again this season before the big cap jump, in an attempt to make another serious run next year.

i thought fred hoiberg was black.

........
   66. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 02, 2015 at 06:07 AM (#4968803)
i think the people in this thread tend to prefer players who have a specific position. portis and harrell are PFs, whereas lyles, looney and christian wood are kinda tweenerish.


I'm probably wrong, but my impression of Looney is that either he's going to be a 4 in the NBA or he isn't going to make it.
   67. Paul D(uda) Posted: June 02, 2015 at 07:05 AM (#4968807)
Der-k, did you ever go into detail about your draft pick for Toronto?
   68. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: June 02, 2015 at 07:13 AM (#4968809)
i thought fred hoiberg was black. i have apparently never seen a picture of fred hoiberg before.

Oh man, STEAGLES, that's a credibility hit!
   69. All Oriole Tragic heard was ruff ruff Posted: June 02, 2015 at 08:20 AM (#4968819)
Looks like the DX board has shifted a bit. They now have Kaminsky at #8 (one above Porzingis), Portis falling a spot to #17, and it looks like Grant (#19) and Looney (#20) have climbed some. Hernangomez has cracked their first round, too.
   70. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 02, 2015 at 08:36 AM (#4968825)
We can go back and forth about what kind of player Kaminsky will be in the NBA, but to draft him at #8 would be batshit insane.

IMHO.
   71. Thok Posted: June 02, 2015 at 08:55 AM (#4968829)
Part of the reason Looney went so low is that we decided to have a run on guards rather than pick somebody out of the power forward mess. Payne, Jones, Hunter, and especially Wright were drafted earlier here than I might expect based on other drafts. (And yes, I know I drafted Payne; even when I did it I said I thought it was a bit early but that I didn't like the other options.)
   72. Rally Posted: June 02, 2015 at 09:27 AM (#4968838)
I don't think there's a good match for Piazza. Talent is much easier to see coming in basketball.

Bill Laimbeer was a 3rd rounder. Rick Mahorn and Dennis Rodman were second rounders. Pistons did OK with that frontline.
   73. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: June 02, 2015 at 09:29 AM (#4968839)
@Votto: Ditto on the last ask. TJ Warren for your #39 and Troy Daniels? I'm hoping that's more than fair for Warren.


Oriole, I accept this if your offer is still on the table. The real-world Hornets could use Warren. He's from NC originally, and played at NC State.
   74. All Oriole Tragic heard was ruff ruff Posted: June 02, 2015 at 09:31 AM (#4968840)
@Votto: Done and done, then!
   75. All Oriole Tragic heard was ruff ruff Posted: June 02, 2015 at 09:39 AM (#4968842)
On the Clock: BOS (Joe C) with pick 28

1. MIN (aberg) - Karl Towns, University of Kentucky
2. LAL (Hombre and RR) - D'Angelo Russell, The Ohio State University
3. PHI (STEAGLES) - Jahlil Okafor, Duke University
4. NYK (NJ) - Justise Winslow, Duke University
5. ORL (JJ1986) - Emmanuel Mudiay, Guangdong Tigers
6. SAC (theboyqueen) - Willie Cauley-Stein, University of Kentucky
7. DEN (Amit) - Mario Hezonja, FC Barcelona Basquet
8. DET (smileyy) - Kristaps Porzingis, Baloncesto Sevilla
9. CHA (Votto) - Devin Booker, University of Kentucky
10. MIA (stevegamer) - Stanley Johnson, University of Arizona
11. IND (Zeth) - Myles Turner, University of Texas (traded to UTA)
12. UTA (Tom Cervo/Booey) - Kelly Oubre, University of Kansas (traded to IND)
13. PHO (Oriole Tragic) - Bobby Portis, University of Arkansas
14. OKC (Thok) - Cameron Payne, Murray State University
15. ATL (Rickey) - Tyus Jones, Duke University
16. BOS (Joe C.) - R.J. Hunter, Georgia State University
17. MIL (Griffey) - Frank Kaminsky, University of Wisconsin
18. HOU (Dandy) - Delon Wright, University of Utah
19. WAS (JC in DC) - Robert Upshaw, University of Washington
20. TOR (Der-K) - Sam Dekker, University of Wisconsin
21. IND (Zeth) from HOU via DAL - Montrezl Harrell, University of Louisville
22. LAL (Hombre) from PHO via CHI - Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, University of Arizona
23. POR (Lord Palmerston) - Justin Anderson, University of Virginia
24. CLE (Bitter Mouse) - Trey Lyles, University of Kentucky
25. MIN (aberg) from MEM - Jerian Grant, University of Notre Dame
26. SAS (Quaker) - Christian Wood, UNLV
27. UTA (BooeyCervo) from PHO via LAL - Kevon Looney, UCLA
28. BOS (Joe C)
29. BKN (District Attorney)
30. GSW (Chris P)

31. MEM (Maxwn) from MIN
32. DAL (Arjun) from HOU
33. BOS (JoeC)
34. PHO (Oriole Tragic) from LAL
35. PHI (STEAGLES)
36. MIN (aberg)
37. PHI (STEAGLES)
38. DET (smileyy)
39. PHO (Oriole Tragic) from CHA
40. MIA (stevegamer)
41. BKN (DA)
42. PHO (Oriole Tragic) from UTA
43. HOU (Dandy) from IND
44. PHO (Oriole Tragic)
45. BOS (JoeC)
46. MIL (Griffey)
47. PHI (STEAGLES)
48. OKC (Thok)
49. WAS (JC in DC)
50. ATL (sam)
51. ORL (JJ1986)
52. IND (Zeth) from HOU via DAL
53. CLE (Bitter Mouse)
54. PHO (Oriole Tragic) from UTA
55. SAS (Quaker)
56. NOP
57. DEN (Amit)
58. PHI (STEAGLES)
59. ATL (sam)
60. PHI (STEAGLES)

Transactions:
HOU #32, Motiejunas to DAL
DAL #21, 52 to HOU

UTA #12 (Kelly Oubre), Alec Burks to IND
IND Myles Turner (#11) to UTA

CHI #22, Taj Gibson to PHO
PHO Markieff Morris, P.J Tucker to CHI

PHO #22 (via CHI) to LAL
LAL #27, #34 to PHO

HOU #21 (via DAL), #52 (via DAL), Kostas Papanikoloau to IND
IND #43, C.J. Miles to HOU

MEM #25 to MIN
MIN #31, Nemanja Bjelica to MEM

PHO #27 (via LAL) to UTA
UTA #42, #54 to PHO

PHO TJ Warren to CHA
CHA #39, Troy Daniels to PHO
   76. All Oriole Tragic heard was ruff ruff Posted: June 02, 2015 at 09:45 AM (#4968844)
@70/Zeth: I fully concur. If he goes Top 10, I'll be floored.
   77. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: June 02, 2015 at 09:58 AM (#4968848)
I didn't, Paul, thanks for the reminder. This will be, I suspect, unexciting.

The Toronto Raptors are at a crossroads. I don't know what they want to do with Casey going forward, with the roster - and playing the "here's how I'd build the franchise going forward" seemed like a different game than I wanted to run, which was "who would I pick here". Because I didn't know the philosophy to build for (and because there was a run on the guys I most valued), I went generic, I went Sam Dekker.

He does a lot of things okay. Solid athlete, should defend the three spot well^ and be effective against twos and fours on the pick and roll. Makes good decisions - resulting in a high 2pt percentage (64%) and very low turnover rate.^^ Can be an asset in transition or on the offensive boards, but not going to be a playmaker. What will ultimately determine his value, I suspect, is whether or not he can improve his perimeter game from passable (if that) to good - I don't need him around if his jump shot is optimized from 16 feet out. The work ethic appears to be there, but that the needle hasn't moved from distance or the line in his three years in school is disturbing. I'd like to see if we can turn up his lateral mobility - some work here and he has a glimmer of potential as a defensive specialist. He's also big enough to credibly serve as a stretch four - again, provided that he delivers on the stretch part of that appellation.

Ultimately, my guess is that he'll be a journeyman who bounces around, being kind of useful. If you're lucky, he turns into a DeMarre Carroll type or a bigger, poor man's Dan Majerle.
Normally, I'd rather spend a pick on a player on whom I'm more enthused or who is more of a specialist, but there are enough avenues of potential usefulness here that I pulled the trigger. I do reserve the right to prefer guys I didn't pick over him by the time the draft rolls around, mind you.

^ Dekker does have really low steal numbers - like red flag low - but I think that's partly a function of how the Badgers used him. He does strike me as more a positional defender, but I think he'll be fine on that end.
^^ This is actually a mixed bag - good decision making itself bodes well for the next step, but you'd rather see sins of commission that illustrate future skills rather than a guy not filling the stat sheet - and Dekker did not have a particularly high usage rate, etc...).
   78. tshipman Posted: June 02, 2015 at 10:02 AM (#4968850)
I thought Hoiberg was black, too. No lie.

i think the people in this thread tend to prefer players who have a specific position. portis and harrell are PFs, whereas lyles, looney and christian wood are kinda tweenerish.


That's part of it, but I think it's also the NBA in 2015. If you're a big, you either have to defend the rim or space the floor. It's really, really tough to run a team that has two guys who do neither.
   79. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: June 02, 2015 at 10:12 AM (#4968855)
I like tweener guys, actually. Tend to be underrated, cause mismatches of their own.

I was a huge Hoiberg fan as a pro. As a collegian, well, they called him the Mayor for a reason.
   80. Norcan Posted: June 02, 2015 at 10:29 AM (#4968867)
Dekker reminds me of a worse version of Harrison Barnes, not much worse but of the two, I would take Barnes every time. They have similar size and on court athleticism, neither are threats to go coast to coast off the dribble or are much in the way of playmakers. Why I find Barnes superior is because he can take smaller guys in the post pretty effectively and is a bit better at facing up defenders and hitting iso jumpers; he's not a full-fledged multi-dimensional SF but he's more than just a 3-and-D wing.
   81. Juilin Sandar to Conkling Speedwell (Arjun) Posted: June 02, 2015 at 10:30 AM (#4968868)
I like tweener guys, actually. Tend to be underrated, cause mismatches of their own.

Same and, plus, I like watching wonky players. Makes the game more unique!
   82. theboyqueen Posted: June 02, 2015 at 10:34 AM (#4968870)
Looking at some film of Hezonja now that I think WCS will be gone before the Kings pick at #6, and I have all kinds of concerns about the guy. He is a good athlete, but certainly not good enough to dominate on pure athleticism in the NBA, and his shot looks exceptionally slow (watch all the places the ball goes on his catch and shoot and compare it to, say, Klay Thompson). I want a guy like this to be a creative passer and a playmaker but I don't see any of that. He has the tools to be a decent defender but I'm not sure he has the attention span for it.

The guy he reminds me of the most is actually Stauskas, except Stauskas has a much quicker release.

At this rate, Kaminsky might be a defensible pick for them. And if so, I'd definitely be looking to trade down for a team who really likes Mudiay (I don't like Mudiay at all).
   83. theboyqueen Posted: June 02, 2015 at 10:43 AM (#4968874)
Dekker reminds me a little of Gallinari.

Back to Hezonja, I guess Gallinari is proof that a slow, hitchy release can be effective in the NBA but I think it's because he's guarded by bigger, slower guys than Hezonja will be.
   84. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 02, 2015 at 10:45 AM (#4968875)
I was a huge Hoiberg fan as a pro. As a collegian, well, they called him the Mayor for a reason.


Hey here in MN he was still called the Mayor. Something to do with his popularity in Ames Iowa (If my vague memory is to be trusted).

I wanted him as coach for my Wolves. Oh well, I am a semi-Bulls fan (from my time living in Chicago), so I can cheer for him at a distance I guess.
   85. Booey Posted: June 02, 2015 at 10:47 AM (#4968876)
In this game, as a rookie, he started in the frontcourt and got 3 blocks on Shaq. The second half they put him on Kobe and he held him to 3 points.


I liked the game where he blocked Kobe 4 times in the last 1:30 of the first quarter. There's video of it off to the right when you click on the link in #60.

Happy trails, Andrei. One of my top 5 favorite Jazzmen of all time.

Edit: Oh, and I said hi to him in passing at a mall once and he said hi back, so extra points for that.
   86. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: June 02, 2015 at 10:48 AM (#4968878)
I would think you Wolves fans would be a little disappointed in how this played out. Makes you wonder if Flip tried to hire him early on if they could have closed the deal, or if Hoiberg was always committed to coming to Chicago. It was a little surprising to hear he'd interviewed elsewhere, and obviously the Bulls don't appear to have interviewed anyone else.
   87. tshipman Posted: June 02, 2015 at 10:50 AM (#4968882)
I'd be really, really surprised if Hoiberg was as good a coach as Thibodeau.

So essentially the Bulls are paying more for a downgrade. Seems like the kind of move that prefigures a fall in the standings.
   88. theboyqueen Posted: June 02, 2015 at 10:56 AM (#4968886)
Hoiberg seems like exactly the kind of guy who SHOULD be taking over the Wolves right now.
   89. spivey Posted: June 02, 2015 at 10:59 AM (#4968890)
Sam Dekker is taller than Barnes by an inch. He also took Winslow into the post a few times successfully in the title game, IIRC (I could be misremembering here).

Barnes killed Dekker on the vertical leap data on Draftexpress though, and I've seen him finish at the rim a way I wouldn't expect Dekker to.

The thing with Dekker is he shouldn't be considered a 3-D guy. His shot has way too much arc for my liking and his percentage in college is quite bad. His dribbling is iffy at best, too. I'm rooting for him, living in Madison - but offensively he can't do much at an NBA level.
   90. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: June 02, 2015 at 11:02 AM (#4968892)
maybe the bulls gets one season of the talent being freed from the previous coach's regimented approach and it's all wonderful which translates into a great season. don't know if the previous bulls coach can really be compared to a bobby valentine but maybe a change creates the same result in the short term

then comes the NEXT season and the new guy cannot really contribute anything and it all goes to h8ll
   91. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 02, 2015 at 11:03 AM (#4968894)
Makes you wonder if Flip tried to hire him early on if they could have closed the deal, or if Hoiberg was always committed to coming to Chicago.


Cynically I suspect it was more money than they wanted to pay.

I'd be really, really surprised if Hoiberg was as good a coach as Thibodeau.


For a single game? Very likely. For a franchise over the long term? Maybe and maybe not. Depends on if you believe he helped build the toxic atmosphere in Chicago (as the Bulls management essentially claimed) and if you believe his style led to increased injuries.

Thibodeau reminds me of Bill Mussleman as a coach. And hey after some googling it looks like Thibs first job was as an assistant under Muss.

Hoiberg seems like exactly the kind of guy who SHOULD be taking over the Wolves right now.


As a wolves fan I am used to not getting what I want. I am still recovering from getting the number one pick, but when they pass over Towns for Okafor my life will be in balance again.
   92. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 02, 2015 at 11:04 AM (#4968895)
I thought Hoiberg was black, too. No lie.


Me three.

I've been thinking about this a little bit and the conclusion I've come to is that I confused him with Dickey Simpkins (in that I confused their names, obviously they are pretty different players).
   93. theboyqueen Posted: June 02, 2015 at 11:04 AM (#4968896)
Wonder if the Bulls try and resurrect Royce White's career now. Seems like it would be worth a shot.
   94. theboyqueen Posted: June 02, 2015 at 11:05 AM (#4968899)
Dickey Simpkins is black?
   95. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: June 02, 2015 at 11:08 AM (#4968902)
I'd be really, really surprised if Hoiberg was as good a coach as Thibodeau.

So essentially the Bulls are paying more for a downgrade. Seems like the kind of move that prefigures a fall in the standings.


I don't know if you saw my previous response to your doubting of Thibs' firing or not. But sure, it's definitely a possibility. Regardless, I think Thibs had reached his expiration date in Chicago, there's a good chance he's just another Scott Skiles*, and he has obvious shortcomings that contributed to the Bulls underperforming this year. The current roster is at a bit of a crossroads, and the Bulls are limited in what changes they can make this offseason. Who cares about the money - Jerry can afford it and it doesn't impact the cap.

*That first year really was phenomenal, but it may have also just been a perfect storm and it's caused us to overrate Thibs since. I'm not saying that for sure, but I'm curious to see how things go in his next stop.
   96. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: June 02, 2015 at 11:10 AM (#4968903)
Wonder if the Bulls try and resurrect Royce White's career now. Seems like it would be worth a shot.

In fact, there have been rumors to that effect recently.
   97. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: June 02, 2015 at 11:15 AM (#4968906)
I have no idea why any of you thought Hoiberg was black. His last name is Hoiberg! He was in the league for 10 years and before that he was a huge college star! It would be like if in 15 years there are people who assume Festus Ezeli was white. That said, the whole thing cracks me up. And now I eagerly await the first person who confesses to thinking Jimmer Fredette was black.
   98. Norcan Posted: June 02, 2015 at 11:16 AM (#4968908)
Barnes killed Dekker on the vertical leap data on Draftexpress though, and I've seen him finish at the rim a way I wouldn't expect Dekker to.


I think Barnes tanked his standing reach to help his vertical numbers and he wouldn't be the first. Pat Connaughton did that pretty egregiously just this past combine. Barnes is 6'7, Dekker is 6'7.75, Barnes's wingspan on that day and time measured 6'11.25, Dekker 6'11.5 but we're to believe that he has a 4.5 inch smaller standing reach (8'5.5 to 8'10)? Regardless of whether his vertical measurements were inflated, he's certainly an above average jumper and has had some highlight reel dunks. But he's also not played like some freakish athlete his athletic numbers would suggest so as regards their game athleticism, I don't think they're far apart.

Yeah, I don't think Dekker's a 3-and-D guy either, although I guess I did suggest that. I don't think his D is going to be good enough to fit that label but he might more offensively capable than just a spot up 3-point shooter as well. I would like him a lot more if he was a better playmaker. He doesn't do enough things well enough that he can get away with not having value as a playmaker.
   99. Famous Original Joe C Posted: June 02, 2015 at 11:20 AM (#4968909)
Boston selects Jordan Mickey, PF, Louisiana State University

Brooklyn (The District Attorney) is on the clock.


1. MIN (aberg) - Karl Towns, University of Kentucky
2. LAL (Hombre and RR) - D'Angelo Russell, The Ohio State University
3. PHI (STEAGLES) - Jahlil Okafor, Duke University
4. NYK (NJ) - Justise Winslow, Duke University
5. ORL (JJ1986) - Emmanuel Mudiay, Guangdong Tigers
6. SAC (theboyqueen) - Willie Cauley-Stein, University of Kentucky
7. DEN (Amit) - Mario Hezonja, FC Barcelona Basquet
8. DET (smileyy) - Kristaps Porzingis, Baloncesto Sevilla
9. CHA (Votto) - Devin Booker, University of Kentucky
10. MIA (stevegamer) - Stanley Johnson, University of Arizona
11. IND (Zeth) - Myles Turner, University of Texas (traded to UTA)
12. UTA (Tom Cervo/Booey) - Kelly Oubre, University of Kansas (traded to IND)
13. PHO (Oriole Tragic) - Bobby Portis, University of Arkansas
14. OKC (Thok) - Cameron Payne, Murray State University
15. ATL (Rickey) - Tyus Jones, Duke University
16. BOS (Joe C.) - R.J. Hunter, Georgia State University
17. MIL (Griffey) - Frank Kaminsky, University of Wisconsin
18. HOU (Dandy) - Delon Wright, University of Utah
19. WAS (JC in DC) - Robert Upshaw, University of Washington
20. TOR (Der-K) - Sam Dekker, University of Wisconsin
21. IND (Zeth) from HOU via DAL - Montrezl Harrell, University of Louisville
22. LAL (Hombre) from PHO via CHI - Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, University of Arizona
23. POR (Lord Palmerston) - Justin Anderson, University of Virginia
24. CLE (Bitter Mouse) - Trey Lyles, University of Kentucky
25. MIN (aberg) from MEM - Jerian Grant, University of Notre Dame
26. SAS (Quaker) - Christian Wood, UNLV
27. UTA (BooeyCervo) from PHO via LAL - Kevon Looney, UCLA
28. BOS (Joe C) Jordan Mickey, PF, Louisiana State University
29. BKN (District Attorney)
30. GSW (Chris P)

31. MEM (Maxwn) from MIN
32. DAL (Arjun) from HOU
33. BOS (JoeC)
34. PHO (Oriole Tragic) from LAL
35. PHI (STEAGLES)
36. MIN (aberg)
37. PHI (STEAGLES)
38. DET (smileyy)
39. PHO (Oriole Tragic) from CHA
40. MIA (stevegamer)
41. BKN (DA)
42. PHO (Oriole Tragic) from UTA
43. HOU (Dandy) from IND
44. PHO (Oriole Tragic)
45. BOS (JoeC)
46. MIL (Griffey)
47. PHI (STEAGLES)
48. OKC (Thok)
49. WAS (JC in DC)
50. ATL (sam)
51. ORL (JJ1986)
52. IND (Zeth) from HOU via DAL
53. CLE (Bitter Mouse)
54. PHO (Oriole Tragic) from UTA
55. SAS (Quaker)
56. NOP
57. DEN (Amit)
58. PHI (STEAGLES)
59. ATL (sam)
60. PHI (STEAGLES)

Transactions:
HOU #32, Motiejunas to DAL
DAL #21, 52 to HOU

UTA #12 (Kelly Oubre), Alec Burks to IND
IND Myles Turner (#11) to UTA

CHI #22, Taj Gibson to PHO
PHO Markieff Morris, P.J Tucker to CHI

PHO #22 (via CHI) to LAL
LAL #27, #34 to PHO

HOU #21 (via DAL), #52 (via DAL), Kostas Papanikoloau to IND
IND #43, C.J. Miles to HOU

MEM #25 to MIN
MIN #31, Nemanja Bjelica to MEM

PHO #27 (via LAL) to UTA
UTA #42, #54 to PHO

PHO TJ Warren to CHA
CHA #39, Troy Daniels to PHO
   100. Famous Original Joe C Posted: June 02, 2015 at 11:21 AM (#4968910)
I cannot believe any of you ever for a second thought Fred Hoiberg of Iowa State was black.
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