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Monday, June 01, 2015

OT: Monthly NBA Thread - June 2015

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: trusting the Red Sox process.

The District Attorney Posted: June 01, 2015 at 11:11 AM | 3045 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   2601. i hear there are a lot of dead animals in 57i66135 Posted: June 25, 2015 at 11:53 PM (#4986477)
not a huge fan of gudaitis, but it's the 47th pick, so it could be worse.


DraftExpress: With the #49 pick the Washington Wizards take Aaron White from Iowa. He will get stashed in Europe. DX profile http://t.co/6LvalfYnDh
   2602. nick swisher hygiene Posted: June 25, 2015 at 11:54 PM (#4986478)
....and they pick Dakari Johnson. Was he even the best 7-footer left?
   2603. i hear there are a lot of dead animals in 57i66135 Posted: June 25, 2015 at 11:56 PM (#4986479)
DraftExpress: With the #50 pick the Atlanta Hawks take Markus Erikkson. Was out all year w\/ torn ACL. Big time shooter from Sweden http://t.co/FFk7gVDHpl
this was another guy i liked.
   2604. J. Sosa Posted: June 25, 2015 at 11:58 PM (#4986481)
Hanlan. Bleh. At least they didn't take Burke in the lottery again. Similar players. Even less of a conscience than Burke.
   2605. Thok Posted: June 26, 2015 at 12:03 AM (#4986483)
CHA just did the deal Thok wanted for Vaulet.


Except that it's the bizarro universe version of that trade. (The Hornets really aren't in a position to care about salary cap issues, and Vaulet is much more likely to bust with a disfunctional Nets organization than with the Spurs.)
   2606. J. Sosa Posted: June 26, 2015 at 12:07 AM (#4986486)
Fran liked Diez. Not sure if that's good or bad.
   2607. aberg Posted: June 26, 2015 at 12:07 AM (#4986487)
The Cavs drafted Sir'Dominic Pointer, a night for King James's court.

I feel validated taking Mulitinov in our mock after the Spurs took him.

Other picks I like: Harrell, Portis, Booker, Grant. Even Tyler Harvey might play a little. He has a little Marcus Thornton in him (the preexisting Thornton).
   2608. Quaker Posted: June 26, 2015 at 12:08 AM (#4986488)
Aberg, what made you high on Mulitinov?
   2609. Oriole Tragic didn't have the teams Lebron had Posted: June 26, 2015 at 12:11 AM (#4986490)
Jeez, I got schooled on my Jonathan Holmes pick. DX had him at #33!
   2610. aberg Posted: June 26, 2015 at 12:14 AM (#4986491)
@Quaker - The things that stuck out to me were shooting touch, youth, size, and production against real competition. Nothing guarantees he'll produce, but they're all positive.

The Spurs just drafted Cady Lalanne who sounds like she might be an 80s adult film star.
   2611. J. Sosa Posted: June 26, 2015 at 12:16 AM (#4986492)
Carlisle says Anderson reminds him of Crowder. I like that comp. Doesn't have as much of an edge though.
   2612. rr Posted: June 26, 2015 at 12:28 AM (#4986495)
No one took Upshaw.
   2613. Quaker Posted: June 26, 2015 at 12:51 AM (#4986498)
RCB just comped Milutinov to Rasho. Guess that wld be a solid outcome for #26.
   2614. theboyqueen Posted: June 26, 2015 at 12:57 AM (#4986500)
Jason Jones ‏@mr_jasonjones 26m26 minutes ago
Divac: "A lot of guys think I'm a rookie and proposed some bad deals. I'm no rookie. I've been around basketball all my life."


Jason Jones ‏@mr_jasonjones 30m30 minutes ago
Divac: "I respect my coach and I think he’s great but he has to trust me to do my job. That’s all."


Jason Jones ‏@mr_jasonjones 36m36 minutes ago
Divac said a defensive small forward and point guard remain priorities in the offseason.


I don't think Karl is coaching this team next year. And I'm fine with that. The sad thing is that Malone would be the perfect coach for the direction this team is headed. Any chance Thibs would take this job? Probably not but I would certainly look into it.
   2615. theboyqueen Posted: June 26, 2015 at 01:04 AM (#4986502)
Scotty Brooks on the other hand, is from this area. Only problem is I don't want him.
   2616. i hear there are a lot of dead animals in 57i66135 Posted: June 26, 2015 at 01:10 AM (#4986503)
this is ridiculous, but my opinion of the sixers' night basically comes down to being disappointed that they took richaun holmes instead of andrew harrison. what the #### is wrong with me.

and again, i actually like holmes. he kind of reminds me of marreese speights in terms of his physical profile and skillset (though hopefully he doesn't share the same childlike sense of wonderment), so i guess that makes him like a mike scott.

anyway, i'd have also preferred shawn dawson instead of tokoto, but that's really getting into degenerate territory.


i'm gonna walk away now.
   2617. i hear there are a lot of dead animals in 57i66135 Posted: June 26, 2015 at 01:13 AM (#4986504)
anyway, i'd have also preferred shawn dawson instead of tokoto, but that's really getting into degenerate territory.
and the fact that i'm excited about this:
Jake Fischer ‏@JakeLFischer 5m5 minutes ago
Per multiple league sources, Sixers selecting J.P. Tokoto at No. 58 was contingent on agreeing to be stashed in the D-League or overseas.
puts me in full blown degenerate territory.
   2618. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: June 26, 2015 at 01:21 AM (#4986506)
Yeah STEAGLES, I thought I was weird for having a dream about Myles Turner, but caring that much about 2nd round picks...?
   2619. theboyqueen Posted: June 26, 2015 at 02:28 AM (#4986512)
A cultural studies dissertation idea:

The Sixers: "Waiting for Godot" as executive philosophy.
   2620. Norcan Posted: June 26, 2015 at 05:12 AM (#4986519)
I like the Lyles pick for Utah I guess because I like Lyles. Makes sense to me.

He has legitimate small forward and power forward skills with legitimate power forward size. That can't really be said about many players. He can really check off almost every skill, from passing, dribbling, post play, rebounding and he just needs to refine his long range shot. He might have to choose one position eventually based on how they want to build him up physically. Even if just for the sake of curiosity, I'd liked to see him play some SF alongside Exum, Hayward, Favors and Gobert, which would have to be one of the biggest lineups of all time.

For the Celtics, I was floored when they took Rozier. I couldn't have imagined that in my wildest dreams. Never did I thought when I watched him be a poor shooting, undersized chucker at Louisville that he'd be a first round pick, nevermind by the Celtics. At least the draft got better from there with the selections of Hunter and Mickey. One thing I like about Mickey's upside is that there were times at LSU when it seemed like he wouldn't contest shots because his team couldn't afford him being in foul trouble. He still nevertheless averaged a ton of blocks but it's possible he'll be able to take his defense to another level by being able to go all out.
   2621. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 26, 2015 at 06:13 AM (#4986520)
The NBA Draft Board has something amusing: literally every single player has only positives listed except one, Pat Connaughton, whose lack of quickness is called out in his blurb. What does that headline writer have against Pat Connaughton?
   2622. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 26, 2015 at 06:30 AM (#4986521)
Richaun Holmes is a really good pick IMO (at that spot obviously). It's not hard to see a world where he becomes a very good player. He will probably bust like any 2R but the possibility is there.

No one took Upshaw.


I don't get this. I guess character issues + possible heart condition is scary, but you'd think someone would take a flyer on this kind of potential. Evidently he's going to summer league with LAL which means like any potential Laker he'll have a shot to make the roster. LAL did well last night between Russell and Anthony Brown who I think is going to be minimum a useful shoot and catch guy (and probably maximum, also, but some of those guys are super valuable). Not sure how Larry Nance Jr fits into the picture but hey, after seeing the Splash Brothers blow up I imagine NBA offspring are going to be the new trend.
   2623. i hear there are a lot of dead animals in 57i66135 Posted: June 26, 2015 at 07:50 AM (#4986526)
A cultural studies dissertation idea:

The Sixers: "Waiting for Godot" as executive philosophy.
i have no idea what that means.


i wonder if it'd be a good idea to take a page from the cavs playbook and play as slow a pace as possible. run every possession through the post and let the size of embiid/okafor/noel create opportunities at the rim and the FT line.

and along those lines, jeremy lin might be a good target for a free agent. he can shoot a little bit, he can run the pick and roll and when other teams get in foul trouble, he can get to the FT line and make them pay.
   2624. Thok Posted: June 26, 2015 at 08:19 AM (#4986536)
I suspect that the Celtics would be getting higher draft grades if they took Hunter at 16 and Rozier at 28, rather than vice versa.

Some mock darft post-mortem: Of the 48 picks we made in our mock, we got 7 exactly correct (Towns-1,Russell-2,Okafor-3,WCS-6,Turner-11,Payne-14, and McCullough-29!) We drafted 5 people who went undrafted in real life (Upshaw, Wood, Alexander, Johnathan Holmes, Frazier.) The highest drafted people we did not draft were Nance Jr-27, Anthony Brown-34, Darrun Hillard-38, Hanlan-42,Young 43)
   2625. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: June 26, 2015 at 09:20 AM (#4986558)
why is the hunter kid drafted by boston characterized as a great shooter when he hit 49 percent on his 2's and 30 percent on his 3's? is the perception that he had shots taken in the mix that would not happen on a different (better) team?

just curious.
   2626. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: June 26, 2015 at 09:28 AM (#4986564)
To expand on my Portis to the Bulls comment from last night...

The Bulls clearly were using the best player available strategy. But they have definite needs - backup PG*, another wing player. Essentially everything but bigs. Even if they are going to move someone**, they're drafting a guy that isn't likely to get a lot of minutes anytime soon. And Portis isn't really insurance for Noah being not 100%. I'm looking at everything through the lense of how can the Bulls get Mirotic more PT*** and this doesn't help that at all. I would have liked Grant or Wright, but both were gone, so I could have seen either Jones or Hunter as excellent fits (other lesser fits were also gone in Vaughn and Andersen).

*Hinrich will likely exercise his PO, but he can't be counted on as the main backup. Brooks may or may not be back, and we Thibs was a backup PG whisperer so I think the Bulls have to try a little harder now (maybe they use the MLE on a veteran upgrade).
**With Taj's surgery/4 month recovery time, it makes it hard to trade him in anything more than a dump move.
***Unless the plan is to play Niko more at the 3, which didn't work last year, but in theory might work better in a better designed offense.
   2627. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: June 26, 2015 at 09:34 AM (#4986565)
why is the hunter kid drafted by boston characterized as a great shooter when he hit 49 percent on his 2's and 30 percent on his 3's? is the perception that he had shots taken in the mix that would not happen on a different (better) team?

He shot much better the year before, and he was essentially the only offensive option on his team, so he faced lots of double teams and schemes designed exclusively to slow him down. At the same time, his shot selection during the tourney did leave a lot to be desired.
   2628. Thok Posted: June 26, 2015 at 09:35 AM (#4986566)
why is the hunter kid drafted by boston characterized as a great shooter


He was significantly better his freshman and sophmore year before teams started double teaming him his junior year. He's not the only small college player to take that sort of hit to his stats when teams started focusing on him (Stephen Curry had a similar "slump" in his junior year stats, although he obviously started out from a higher level of play.)

Edit: Coke to Moses Taylor.
   2629. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: June 26, 2015 at 09:47 AM (#4986574)
moses/thok

i somewhat figured but wanted to be sure

good luck to him
   2630. Avoid Running At All Times- S. Paige Posted: June 26, 2015 at 09:52 AM (#4986585)
I'm a Knicks fan and I have to say I was pleasantly surprised by Phil Jackson's work last night. The Hardaway trade is nothing but upside to me, and I like the pick of Zinger, who looks to have an exciting skill set and seems to have a great head on his shoulders. Also, Stephen A. Smith and the Bridge and Tunnel Crew of Lon Gislanders hates the selection and that is a positive sign! I'm most impressed that Jackson made a move that shows he's thinking long-term.
   2631. Norcan Posted: June 26, 2015 at 09:52 AM (#4986586)
He shot much better the year before, and he was essentially the only offensive option on his team, so he faced lots of double teams and schemes designed exclusively to slow him down. At the same time, his shot selection during the tourney did leave a lot to be desired.


Georgia State was not RJ Hunter and bunch of scrubs. Their point guard Ryan Harrow, ex-North Carolina State, ex-Kentucky player, former highly ranked recruit, played just as well as Hunter did. Kevin Ware, looking pretty well recovered from his gruesome injury, was also on that team and while he didn't put up big numbers, looked pretty good against that quality of competition in some of the games I checked out. I put Hunter's struggles more to shooting too many ridiculously long shots that were even beyond the NBA 3-point line and maybe a bit of draftitis. It wasn't like he was shooting over four arms every time. One of the frustrating things about watching him was how passive he could be. He clearly possessed a wide range of skills but too often didn't even dribble on many of touches but just passed it off. I couldn't believe why his teammates probed defenses more.

   2632. Norcan Posted: June 26, 2015 at 09:58 AM (#4986590)
I wished the Celtics had drafted Portis. I don't know why he dropped all the way to the Bulls. He's got size, good athleticism (featuring fantastic lateral agility), a wide range of skills and plays tremendously hard. At the very least he seems to have a good shot of being a rotation big and those aren't that easy to come by. As an added bonus, his doctors apparently told him that he might still grow into a 7-footer or close to it. Portis, Mickey and RJ Hunter would've been a pretty nice haul. I just hope whatever they saw in Rozier during his impressive workouts proves more insightful than his erratic play in games.
   2633. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 26, 2015 at 09:59 AM (#4986591)
I'm still baffled by Atlanta, turning the #15 pick into Tim Hardaway Jr. and two second round picks. Why not just stay put and draft one of several worthwhile guard prospects, or Kelly Oubre?
   2634. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 26, 2015 at 10:04 AM (#4986596)
I'm still baffled by Atlanta, turning the #15 pick into Tim Hardaway Jr. and two second round picks. Why not just stay put and draft one of several worthwhile guard prospects, or Kelly Oubre?


Maybe Danny Ferry destroyed all their scouting information in a fit of rage before he left.
   2635. JJ1986 Posted: June 26, 2015 at 10:05 AM (#4986602)
Some mock darft post-mortem: Of the 48 picks we made in our mock, we got 7 exactly correct (Towns-1,Russell-2,Okafor-3,WCS-6,Turner-11,Payne-14, and McCullough-29!) We drafted 5 people who went undrafted in real life (Upshaw, Wood, Alexander, Johnathan Holmes, Frazier.) The highest drafted people we did not draft were Nance Jr-27, Anthony Brown-34, Darrun Hillard-38, Hanlan-42,Young 43)
Harvey was the top guy on my board for Orlando, so we had a good chance to get one more exactly right if we'd continued.
   2636. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: June 26, 2015 at 10:29 AM (#4986635)
Maybe Danny Ferry destroyed all their scouting information in a fit of rage before he left.

The cover sheets were beautiful and great, but the reports were all counterfeit.
   2637. The Buddy Biancalana Hit Counter Posted: June 26, 2015 at 10:34 AM (#4986646)
I'm still baffled by Atlanta, turning the #15 pick into Tim Hardaway Jr. and two second round picks. Why not just stay put and draft one of several worthwhile guard prospects, or Kelly Oubre?

The Hawks want to re-sign Millsap and Carroll and, because they only hold the Early Bird Rights to both, will need to use cap space to sign Millsap to a contract starting at more than $16.6m or Carroll to a contract starting at more than $5.8m. So that's their motivation for the money saving portion of the decision.

More troubling is that they are at least giving lip service to attempting to turn the wing version of Mike Scott into a rotation player. Good news for Bazemore, I guess.
   2638. tshipman Posted: June 26, 2015 at 10:34 AM (#4986648)
I'm still baffled by Atlanta, turning the #15 pick into Tim Hardaway Jr. and two second round picks. Why not just stay put and draft one of several worthwhile guard prospects, or Kelly Oubre?


A great point I saw on twitter:
Knicks failed to get a first rounder for Tyson Chandler, JR Smith or Shumpert, but somehow got one for Tim Hardaway, Jr.
   2639. Oriole Tragic didn't have the teams Lebron had Posted: June 26, 2015 at 11:26 AM (#4986687)
I feel like Nance should be the Summer League invitee and LAL should have drafted Upshaw, instead of the other way round, but at least the Lakers should get a good look at the big guy.
   2640. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 26, 2015 at 11:29 AM (#4986689)
Every team in the NBA passed on Upshaw at least twice (except the few that had fewer than two picks). There's almost certainly a good reason.
   2641. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 26, 2015 at 11:32 AM (#4986690)
Every team in the NBA passed on Upshaw at least twice (except the few that had fewer than two picks). There's almost certainly a good reason.


The main reason (other than previous questions about his lack of motor, getting kicked off two teams, etc) is the heart issue flagged at the combine (I am not sure what happened with followups to that story). I imagine that this scared off a lot of teams. Still think a flyer would be reasonable with a 2R, but that's what they know more about than us I imagine.
   2642. Oriole Tragic didn't have the teams Lebron had Posted: June 26, 2015 at 11:32 AM (#4986691)
Didn't he go first-round in our draft? I wonder which player had the largest delta in BBTF/NBA draft position.
   2643. Oriole Tragic didn't have the teams Lebron had Posted: June 26, 2015 at 11:40 AM (#4986701)
#2641/AS: Makes sense. DX sprung that news on 5 June, which was very probably well after Upshaw was picked #19 in out draft. DX's final mock has him at #45.
   2644. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: June 26, 2015 at 11:57 AM (#4986715)
I'm happy.
   2645. J. Sosa Posted: June 26, 2015 at 12:15 PM (#4986740)
Locke remains high on Lyles. I must say I am pretty impressed with his connections. He knew Winslow was probably going to slip to 10, which is impressive. To me, at least. I still don't understand why the Jazz didn't try to move up but maybe the teams ahead of them just wouldn't do it. As it stands now I think the Jazz top out as a western version of the recent Pacers team barring a leap to stardom the next few years by Exum (possible given how huge the jump he made was) or a healthy Burks (who has always played with pain, he might show improvement after getting his shoulder fixed). Conference finalist with a chance for more if things break right isn't a terrible fate, but I thought they had a chance to get a meaningful player which is disapointing. Anyways, I was interested in thinking about who I prefer to Lyles for posterity's sake with the obvious understanding that most of the guys would not have been possible to obtain and that the Jazz are building a team at this point rather than gathering assets. And quickly discovered Lyles went at pretty much the exact spot he should have.

Towns, Russell, Okafor, Porzingis, Hezonja, WCS, Mudiay, Winslow, Wright, Portis, Anderson, were the guys I think that will be better. There is a real dropoff after after about 7 or 8 guys. But Winslow was one of those guys, and it was frustrating. According to Simmons MJ refused a king's ransom from Boston, and maybe the Pistons also were not willing to move. So, it is what it is. The Jazz are really smart, maybe he does have an upside as a longtime rotation big.

   2646. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 26, 2015 at 12:25 PM (#4986758)
Man is Charlotte's front office a disaster.
   2647. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 26, 2015 at 12:28 PM (#4986761)
[2645] The Celtics were apparently also trying to trade up to nab Winslow but having no luck, see this tweet (h/t Lowe).

edit: oh, I see you addressed this, my bad, read before posting
   2648. . Posted: June 26, 2015 at 12:33 PM (#4986772)
I'm a Knicks fan and I have to say I was pleasantly surprised by Phil Jackson's work last night. The Hardaway trade is nothing but upside to me, and I like the pick of Zinger, who looks to have an exciting skill set and seems to have a great head on his shoulders. Also, Stephen A. Smith and the Bridge and Tunnel Crew of Lon Gislanders hates the selection and that is a positive sign! I'm most impressed that Jackson made a move that shows he's thinking long-term.

And the cherry on last night's delicious cake is that Melo feels "betrayed and hoodwinked."
   2649. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: June 26, 2015 at 12:40 PM (#4986779)
I'm happy enough the Warriors took Looney and, taking someone who's an injury risk, makes me think they didn't take him with the idea of flipping him. They were in a good position to adjust a high upside/high bust potential guy who they don't need production from right away. On the other hand, it makes me nervous when a 19 year old athlete walks like an old man up to the stage...

Jonathan Holmes didn't get drafted, either, so maybe the Dubs can bring him in as a FA to get a look-see.
   2650. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: June 26, 2015 at 12:44 PM (#4986785)
Why didn't Charlotte just make the trade and cross their fingers Kaminsky dropped which was pretty likely to happen. And if he didn't, well, so what? Why get fixated on Kaminsky when you've already traded for Spencer Hawes?
   2651. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: June 26, 2015 at 12:50 PM (#4986797)
Just read about Melo's unhappiness. I'm even happier.
   2652. Avoid Running At All Times- S. Paige Posted: June 26, 2015 at 01:07 PM (#4986810)
And the cherry on last night's delicious cake is that Melo feels "betrayed and hoodwinked."


Nelson Muntz reaction here.
   2653. aberg Posted: June 26, 2015 at 01:25 PM (#4986818)
Wolves nearing a trade for Bjelica. That's going to make the frontcourt rotation very deep and very confusing.
   2654. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: June 26, 2015 at 01:41 PM (#4986825)
Since when does Melo care what players are on the Knicks other than him?
   2655. aberg Posted: June 26, 2015 at 01:45 PM (#4986828)
Wolves Depth Chart

PG - Rubio, Jones, Lorenzo Brown (non-guaranteed contract)
SG - Martin, Lavine
SF- Wiggins, Muhammad, Budinger
PF - Towns, Bjelica, Bennett, Payne
C - Pekovic, Dieng

That's 14 guys under contract for next year (assuming Bjelica's deal gets done) and Garnett would be the 15th. They might waive Brown to get more back court experience, but I'm not sure they're going to get a more productive third PG, even if they get someone who is more experienced.

All of that makes me even more confident that they will try to trade Bennett this offseason. Flip obviously saw something he likes in Payne and Bjelica likely wouldn't come over if he wasn't going to play. I think they will also try to trade Budinger, but that seems like it would be more difficult to accomplish. In terms of flexibility, Martin, Wiggins, Muhammad, and Budinger can probably play either wing spot, Brown can play a bit off the ball in a pinch, Towns and Payne can play a bit of C (I think Towns will grow into that over time) and Dieng can fake PF in a pinch.

That's obviously not a 50 win team next year. Maybe it can be a 35-40 win tearm if Wiggins continues to improve and Towns is a pretty good player right away. Maybe Rubio, Martin, and Pekovic are not ever going to be healthy, but it's not like the injury luck will get worse.

In terms of future assets, I think the team has 7-10 guys who are likely to have positive value in 2-3 years. I'm confident in Jones, Lavine, Wiggins, Muhammad, Towns, Bjelica, and Dieng being useful. I think there's at least a decent chance of Rubio, Payne, and/or Bennett could be useful, but I think they're all less likely to be part of the next good core. I think Martin and Pekovic are useful, but are on the wrong side of their primes and will not be meaningful contributors when the team is ready to compete.

That means my rough sketch of a future depth chart would look something like this:

PG - Jones, Rubio?
SG - Lavine
SF - Wiggins, Muhammad
PF - Bjelica, Payne? Bennett?
C - Towns, DIeng

Looking at it that way, I think SG will eventually be the biggest need. Lavine strikes me as more of a bench player long term as a combo guard, but he could prove me wrong. They're a long way from needing to address that issue, but it's something to keep in mind for the long term FO plan.

I can also envision a front-line of Towns and Dieng playing together. If Dient continues to improve his defensive positioning and anticipation, that would be a helluva back line. We have seen glimpses of Towns stepping away from the basket and playing a face-up game, which would preserve some offensive spacing with Dieng in the lineup.

Just thinking of this year, I think they're very well equipped for the multiple PNR offenses that have become so much more popular. If Rubio initiates the offense with Pekovic (a very good roll man), that leaves him to either use that pick or swing it to Martin or Wiggins to start a secondary PNR with Towns. Wiggins can thrive in that role, because even with his developing ball handling, he will be attacking a secondary defender who is likely tilted to the other side of the court. It makes his ability to slash and finish even more useful.

I know I'm getting way aherad of myself, but there have not been many bright spots in this team's history. The only time I remember feeling this optimistic about the long-term future is early in the KG/Marbury years. Obviously, that turned out poorly, but I feel like I just bought a lottery ticket and get to dream about the boats and mansions my winnings will buy.
   2656. aberg Posted: June 26, 2015 at 01:46 PM (#4986829)
Typo in my earlier post- not trading for Bjelica, signing him.
   2657. Norcan Posted: June 26, 2015 at 01:59 PM (#4986842)
Who knows who has the final say in Charlotte but it's pretty ironic that one of the most athletic players of all time has been involved in drafting so many relatively mediocre athletes like Kaminsky, Dudley and Morrison. I feel like MJ went with the Dudley and Morrison types, very accomplished college players with forgettable athleticism, as a reaction to the Kwame Brown bust, then became more open to once again taking theoretically higher upside players like Biyombo, Kemba, Vonleh and Zeller and now has returned to the Dudley-Morrison types again. I think I would have just taken Winslow and tried to trade Kidd-Gilchrist. It's mind-blowing that Kidd-Gilchrist didn't attempt a single 3 last season.
   2658. jmurph Posted: June 26, 2015 at 02:04 PM (#4986848)
I know I'm getting way aherad of myself, but there have not been many bright spots in this team's history. The only time I remember feeling this optimistic about the long-term future is early in the KG/Marbury years. Obviously, that turned out poorly, but I feel like I just bought a lottery ticket and get to dream about the boats and mansions my winnings will buy.


I think if any fanbase has earned some unmitigated optimism, it's the Wolves.

The other cool thing about their young talent (sorry if you mentioned this previously) is that it's distributed fairly evenly. Couple of bigs, couple of wings, all of whom can probably play together, at least in stretches.
   2659. rr Posted: June 26, 2015 at 02:06 PM (#4986850)
Did Anthony actually use the term "hoodwinked?" Did he also say, "Good god, man, where is your sense of decency?" and "Zounds! We drafted Zinger!"

Like I said, I was very surprised. I thought Phil would take Cauley-Stein and try to sign Monroe and a wing in FA. He may still do the latter two, of course, but this changes the calculus.

I know I'm getting way aherad of myself,


If Towns and Wiggins turn out to be big stars, Minnesota will be good. If they don't, the other guys won't matter. Given how many lottery picks and high lottery picks are on the team, they will probably have a good team at some point. The Love teams didn't work out largely because they missed on Williams, Johnson, and Flynn with high/pretty high lottery picks. But now they have two guys who are great athletes and who were picked #1. It is harder to miss on those.
   2660. aberg Posted: June 26, 2015 at 02:11 PM (#4986855)
Not sue if it was related to Anthony, but as soon as the draft when off the air, Stephen A went on Sportscenter and did the Malcolm X "hookwinked, bamboozled, led astray run amok" speech directed at Phil. It was in slightly poor taste, and naturally, sounded really dumb. That might have something to do with people using that word toward Jackson.
   2661. rr Posted: June 26, 2015 at 02:13 PM (#4986857)
I don't care about the Knicks one way or the other, but I am kind of rooting for Porzingis to turn into Dirk 2 now. I lurked at KnickerBlogger and a couple of guys there are calling him "Dr. Doom" since the Marvel/Fantastic Four baddie was from "Latveria."
   2662. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: June 26, 2015 at 02:16 PM (#4986862)
From ESPN:

The Celtics made a massive play to move up for Winslow Thursday night, offering as many as six draft picks and four potential 1st-rounders for Charlotte's No. 9 pick, sources told ESPN's Chris Forsberg. They also made unsuccessful attempts to acquire picks No. 4-8. Winslow ended up going 10th to Miami.


I think Charlotte screwed the pooch. Either take Winslow there or take the deal. If Ainge wanted Winslow that bad I would have definitely taken Winslow and considered Ainge's lust my de facto scouting report.

   2663. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 26, 2015 at 02:22 PM (#4986868)
Typo in my earlier post- not trading for Bjelica, signing him.


I admit I was confused. Anyway ...

I think Brown is gone (and Zach will play at being third PG when needed). Bennett and Budinger are goner if they can find someone willing to offer ... well anything.

But basically I think you are pretty much correct. And I am also excited. Call me silly but a core of Rubio, Towns, Wiggins with some other young parts that can definitely get better has me really excited. With Bjelica (hopefully) coming over, the draft picks and missing everyone last year due to injury it is almost like a whole new team.
   2664. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: June 26, 2015 at 02:29 PM (#4986874)
a couple of guys there are calling him "Dr. Doom" since the Marvel/Fantastic Four baddie was from "Latveria."


Awesome.

I think Charlotte screwed the pooch.


Someone has to be below average. I am just happy the Wolves front office has seemingly escaped that fate.
   2665. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 26, 2015 at 02:51 PM (#4986890)
Not taking the trade was defensible if only because "never trade with Danny Ainge" does not appear to be a bad rule to follow. But yeah, that they refused that trade and then took Kaminsky is staggering. Refuse the trade and take the guy Ainge wanted. (Though it's unclear if Ainge wanted Winslow for himself or had more of a mind to add him to an offer for Cousins.)
   2666. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: June 26, 2015 at 03:02 PM (#4986895)
"never trade with Danny Ainge"

I'm not convinced this should really be a thing yet.
   2667. Norcan Posted: June 26, 2015 at 03:04 PM (#4986897)
I can't believe Christian Wood went undrafted. He ended up falling to the second round in draftexpress' final mock draft but he'd been in the late first round pool for a long time, in mock drafts anyway. It wasn't hard to see why with his size, athleticism, youth and promising production. Watching Rashad Vaughn and Wood play together, there was no way one was a mid-first rounder and the other an undrafted player. No reports about medical concerns popped up afterwards so he must have really bombed the workouts and/or the interviews or not gotten positive reports from his coaches. I hope the Celtics are in on him.
   2668. aberg Posted: June 26, 2015 at 03:06 PM (#4986898)
Someone has to be below average. I am just happy the Wolves front office has seemingly escaped that fate.


Flip's major moves so far:

Trade Trey Burke for Muhammad and Dieng

Trade Kevin Love for Andrew Wiggins, Anthony Bennett, Thad Young

Draft Towns over Okafor

Trade 2 2nds for Tyus Jones

Nothing to be upset about so far.
   2669. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 26, 2015 at 03:08 PM (#4986901)
All purely theoretical, but in the NBA2K13 franchise I tinker with occasionally, I have a contending team, about on the level of the Rockets or Clippers; its star got hurt in Game 1 of its second round series and lost the series in 6, but it's of title quality. An unprotected first rounder I acquired the previous season (from Utah, bless their hearts) turned into the #1 pick. There was no overwhelming prospect available in this draft, so I traded down to #3 (picking up a first) and then from there traded down again to #6 (picking up another future first), where I drafted the kind of prospect you would expect to get at #6.

Interesting question, though. Supposing a contender that already has a superstar and a lesser star, and has an opening for a center, landed the #1 pick this year, which would be better, assuming trades were to be had: Just draft Towns, or trade down and end up with WCS plus a couple future firsts that can be used to keep cheap talent coming (or as assets for future trades)?
   2670. sardonic Posted: June 26, 2015 at 03:10 PM (#4986903)
Interesting question, though. Supposing a contender that already has a superstar and a lesser star, and has an opening for a center, landed the #1 pick this year, which would be better, assuming trades were to be had: Just draft Towns, or trade down and end up with WCS plus a couple future firsts that can be used to keep cheap talent coming (or as assets for future trades)?


I'd draft Towns and not even worry about it. But I'm just some guy on the internet.
   2671. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 26, 2015 at 03:12 PM (#4986905)
I can't believe Christian Wood went undrafted. He ended up falling to the second round in draftexpress' final mock draft but he'd been in the late first round pool for a long time, in mock drafts anyway. It wasn't hard to see why with his size, athleticism, youth and promising production. Watching Rashad Vaughn and Wood play together, there was no way one was a mid-first rounder and the other an undrafted player. No reports about medical concerns popped up afterwards so he must have really bombed the workouts and/or the interviews or not gotten positive reports from his coaches. I hope the Celtics are in on him.


Looney and Harrell were both projected in the 15-25 range and ended up in the second round (well, Looney went last pick of the first), Wood was projected late first and went undrafted. Looney had the injury problems of course, but maybe it's just a front office trend right now that teams aren't interested in guys don't project to play anywhere but at the 4? Or phrased another way, guys that can't shoot threes, can't guard 3's and don't protect the rim.

Addendum: Jonathan Holmes was also undrafted; he's listed as PF/SF but at 6'9/242 sounds unlikely to be able to guard NBA 3's.
   2672. jmurph Posted: June 26, 2015 at 03:15 PM (#4986910)
2668: Yeah, that's good work so far. The major quibble would be picking Thad over a 1st rounder. I'd like to argue he's held onto too many vets so far, but in fairness, it's not clear there are actually deals to be had.
   2673. aberg Posted: June 26, 2015 at 03:15 PM (#4986911)
Interesting question, though. Supposing a contender that already has a superstar and a lesser star, and has an opening for a center, landed the #1 pick this year, which would be better, assuming trades were to be had: Just draft Towns, or trade down and end up with WCS plus a couple future firsts that can be used to keep cheap talent coming (or as assets for future trades)?


That's fairly close to the Spurs situation when they drafted Duncan. That would require one of Sean Elliott or Avery Johnson to be a "lesser star," which is probably not true, though.
   2674. aberg Posted: June 26, 2015 at 03:16 PM (#4986912)
2668: Yeah, that's good work so far. The major quibble would be picking Thad over a 1st rounder. I'd like to argue he's held onto too many vets so far, but in fairness, it's not clear there are actually deals to be had.


He did dump Corey Brewer and Mo Williams. I'd like to see Budinger go too, at least.
   2675. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 26, 2015 at 03:17 PM (#4986913)
Nah. If a generational prospect like Tim Duncan is on the board you don't think about trading out of that pick for a single split-second.
   2676. jmurph Posted: June 26, 2015 at 03:18 PM (#4986914)
He did dump Corey Brewer and Mo Williams. I'd like to see Budinger go too, at least.


True. Was thinking about Martin and Pek (though Pek, surely, is basically untradeable at this point).
   2677. spivey Posted: June 26, 2015 at 03:20 PM (#4986915)
Holmes is a true tweener. I don't think he can guard SFs and I don't think he can guard PFs. He's good enough to play professionally, of course. Just not the NBA.
   2678. sardonic Posted: June 26, 2015 at 03:26 PM (#4986919)
Warriors GM Bob Myers commented that they're likely to exercise Mo Speights's $3.8M team option ($12M including luxury tax if DLee isn't moved). That tells me that the team either already has a deal in place to move Lee (unlikely, because why wouldn't they have pulled the trigger already) or that ownership is willing to bite the bullet and go deep into the luxury tax this year. Warriors rotation next year would be basically unchanged from this year's:

PG Curry
SG Thompson
SF Barnes
PF Green
C Bogut

Rotation Players: Iguodala, Livingston, Ezeli, Speights, mini-MLE signing
Deep bench: Justin Holiday, Orgjan Kuzmic, Brandon Rush, James McAdoo, Kevon Looney

In this scenario I'm assuming that they buy out Lee to let him catch on with a new team. Maybe they have a handshake agreement to buy him out in return for him not signing with a major contender in the Western Conference.

Things you'd be looking for would be Ezeli taking a step forward with a fully healthy year and exiting the year looking like he's ready to take over for Bogut, Barnes continuing to develop and signing an extension, Holiday growing into a 3/D player who can play 15 min off the bench and Looney being healthy and putting on some weight/strength.
   2679. jmurph Posted: June 26, 2015 at 03:32 PM (#4986925)
In this scenario I'm assuming that they buy out Lee to let him catch on with a new team. Maybe they have a handshake agreement to buy him out in return for him not signing with a major contender in the Western Conference.


I'm still convinced Lee is movable, but I of course know nothing. I think some fringe playoff team in the east could still use him, like the Celtics or... Knicks? I mean, assuming Boston is not going to land an actual franchise-altering talent in the free agency market, absorbing 1 year of Lee into their cap space to help carry the load seems perfectly reasonable to me, assuming there are also draft pick benefits (2 seconds or whatever).
   2680. sardonic Posted: June 26, 2015 at 03:36 PM (#4986927)
I'm still convinced Lee is movable, but I of course know nothing. I think some fringe playoff team in the east could still use him, like the Celtics or... Knicks? I mean, assuming Boston is not going to land an actual franchise-altering talent in the free agency market, getting absorbing 1 year of Lee into their cap space to help carry the load seems perfectly reasonable to me, assuming there are also draft pick benefits (2 seconds or whatever).


The Warriors can't trade their first rounder next year because they already owe 2017 to Utah, and won't have another second rounder until 2019 (!!), so they basically have no draft picks they can trade unless it's their 2019 first (is that even legal?). So unless someone still wants Kevon Looney, or just wants David Lee on his deal hard to see a deal getting done.
   2681. Norcan Posted: June 26, 2015 at 03:36 PM (#4986929)
I wouldn't call Ainge an impeccable trader. He's had his hits and misses. Of course there was the KG trade, without which he might not be with the Celtics anymore but he did trade the 7th pick for Sebastian Telfair. In that trade however, he did get Theo Ratliff whose contract played no small role in facilitating the KG deal. He also has a bad habit of trying to hit home runs on I supposed "undervalued" players like Ricky Davis and Jeff Green. Regardless of who they were traded for, they made the Celtics worse so there's no defending the deals as far as I'm concerned. I mean damn, if you lose Perkins for nothing, you lose him but don't bring in players like Green who do nothing to help a team win.

I also wonder just how good Ainge is at drafting. In his first few years, he was superb, selecting a slew of solid to better players despite never picking higher than 15th. Since 2008 however, his drafting record is decidedly mixed, with many memorable busts like JaJuan Johnson, JR Giddens and Fab Melo alongside so-so hits like Avery Bradley and Jared Sullinger. These two periods coincide with Daryl Morey's tenure with the Celtics and then the Rockets. Since Houston has been a great drafting team under Morey, it makes me wonder if he wasn't the secret weapon to the Celtics drafting success and not Ainge.
   2682. jmurph Posted: June 26, 2015 at 03:44 PM (#4986944)
Sullinger and Olynyk and Bradley have to be considered good value picks for where they were selected. Glen Davis, too (was Morey still there at that point?).

There have been no homeruns, that much I agree with.
   2683. Norcan Posted: June 26, 2015 at 03:51 PM (#4986950)
Looney and Harrell were both projected in the 15-25 range and ended up in the second round (well, Looney went last pick of the first), Wood was projected late first and went undrafted. Looney had the injury problems of course, but maybe it's just a front office trend right now that teams aren't interested in guys don't project to play anywhere but at the 4? Or phrased another way, guys that can't shoot threes, can't guard 3's and don't protect the rim.


I doubt teams are downgrading all exclusive 4s to undraftable or second round status. And that definition of can't shoot threes, can't guard 3s and don't protect the rim is too broad to define as exclusive 4s.

Even if Looney didn't have the medical concerns, I think he also might have been hurt by looking pretty awkward on the court. He has a serious case of clothes hanger shoulders. Few if any good basketball players "look" like him so that might have hurt him along with the medical stuff. Harrell is extremely undersized for his skillset so it's no surprised he fell. With Wood though, there was so much to like, athleticism, good height and length, very good shotblocking numbers, solid shooting potential that it's harder to see how he just fell completely out of the draft.
   2684. J. Sosa Posted: June 26, 2015 at 03:56 PM (#4986954)
For the Knicks fans:

At this point would you do a Punto trade with Carmelo? Just dump him on a team like the Lakers if they would have him. I feel like I would but maybe he has more value than I think. I don't think LA would even do a Punto style trade but maybe I am nuts.
   2685. Norcan Posted: June 26, 2015 at 03:57 PM (#4986955)
Sullinger and Olynyk and Bradley have to be considered good value picks for where they were selected. Glen Davis, too (was Morey still there at that point?).


No, Morey was hired as the assistant Houston GM in April 2006. I don't know what to make of the 2006 draft because I think that's the best draft during Ainge's tenure since he got Rondo and Powe and it technically occurred while Morey was no longer with the organization. But I can't imagine he didn't have any role in helping Ainge evaluate those two players.
   2686. The District Attorney Posted: June 26, 2015 at 04:02 PM (#4986961)
I went to the Knicks' "draft party" at Madison Square Garden yesterday, an exclusive affair which I attended with (allegedly) 5,000 of my closest friends. Before the draft began, Al Trautwig polled the crowd on who'd they prefer, Mudiay ("yay") or Porzingis ("BOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!")

Suffice it to say that the event quickly ceased to be a "party." Trautwig later interviewed a patched-in Kristaps via phone, and at least most people had the courtesy not to boo him when he could actually hear it. John Starks, Larry Johnson, Bernard King, and Kenny "Sky" Walker then all came out to reassure us that everything would be fine, although only King really seemed to know much of anything about the player in question.

I definitely sense that there is a basketball hipster reaction coalescing that assumes that anyone who hates the pick is a Francesa-esque mouthbreather. That is, of course, every bit as simplistic as assuming that the guy is no good because he's not from here. Even if Kris is not the next Darko, there are still some major issues that leap to mind. He's a 4, and Melo is best at the 4. And if you add in Greg Monroe as everyone expects, you have a horrific defensive frontcourt. And Kris doesn't pass well, which is a bad thing in general, and especially so as a big man in the triangle. And the Knicks now stunk for a year in order to bring in a project who won't be ready for another couple of years (and they don't have a first-rounder next year). That all means that several of Melo's (again, allegedly) star-quality years will have been wasted.

In sum, it's not a "fit", at all. The only way it's the right pick is if Kris truly was the best player available, and is a franchise-altering talent or close to it. Which he totally could be. So I won't say it's a bad pick. However, I myself would have had Mudiay, Hezonja, Winslow, and Cauley-Stein (if doctors agreed) all above him on my Knick list.

The undisputed good news is that Grant for Hardaway is highway robbery. Hernangomez, yet another defensively challenged big man, looks like a bad fit for the Knicks... but at least in the abstract, worth what they gave up in order to get him, so an "asset" in that sense. And perhaps giving Kris a buddy is a good idea (although Hernangomez isn't going to be here for the first year or two, when it will presumably be toughest for Kris.)

I also like what the Nets did, not that it matters.

Re: players who unexpectedly fall entirely out of the draft: I think it's almost always due to either medical or psychological concerns.
   2687. Rally Posted: June 26, 2015 at 04:09 PM (#4986966)
Ainge trading for not-Zeke Thomas was a big win. Didn't give up much and got a good player on a very team friendly deal.

Trading Rondo gave up nothing, as Rondo was terrible this season and whether he ever returns to being good, his contract was up after the season. They got one first round pick and Brandan Wright, who was swapped for another first rounder.

The Garnett & Pierce trade to the Nets looks like an all-time ripoff. Tanked the team for one year while the Nets managed only 44 wins and first round playoff victory. One year later the Celtics move past the Nets, Pierce and Garnett are gone, and the Nets have an old team miles above the salary cap with no hope of contention. And the Nets still owe multiple picks that should turn out to be pretty good. Celtics have the Nets' 2016 and 2018 picks. I don't think there is any protection. They have the right to swap picks in 2017. Nets are awful and don't even have the chance to try and rebuild until 2019.
   2688. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: June 26, 2015 at 04:27 PM (#4986986)
i understand there is a delicate balance but i sense the bucks are moving too quickly into thinking that they are in 'contending' mode. again, i know there is a finite window given players being under contract and all the other variables. but they just seem to be jumping the gun in my mind.

anyway, that's my gut reaction.
   2689. . . . . . . Posted: June 26, 2015 at 04:45 PM (#4987002)
I see we all go along with the fiction that Ainge is the one making the Celtics FO decisions.
   2690. aberg Posted: June 26, 2015 at 04:47 PM (#4987005)
I see we all go along with the fiction that Ainge is the one making the Celtics FO decisions.


Even if he's only the one taking the advice of smarter people around him, he deserves a lot of credit for that, too. In some ways, being the leader who can acknowledge his own weaknesses and shortcomings is even more valuable than being a leader who is highly skilled in his operational area.
   2691. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: June 26, 2015 at 05:16 PM (#4987033)
But I can't imagine he didn't have any role in helping Ainge evaluate those two players.


Allegedly, Ryan McDonough was the man pushing for Rondo. I don't know if anyone in particular was advocating for Powe, but him being drafted seems to have been awfully influenced by circumstance: the C's passed on him earlier in the draft due to injury concerns (which did, in fact, end up derailing his career far too soon), but decided to pull the trigger when he was still available in the 40s.

Ainge is excellent and has the luck to be able to operate patiently: he hasn't had any post-Rondo breakout stars or any lottery luck, but I can't fault his process and I appreciate his unwillingness to make bad deals out of impatience. I'm still salty he passed on Gobert, though: that draft was near the apex of Hibbert's recent dominance, and I decided Gobert would be a great gamble for no reason other than the fact that he's 7'2".
   2692. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: June 26, 2015 at 06:55 PM (#4987121)
I definitely sense that there is a basketball hipster reaction coalescing that assumes that anyone who hates the pick is a Francesa-esque mouthbreather.

Most Knicks fans who hate the pick ARE Francesa-esque mouthbreathers who hate the pick solely for the fact that Porzingis is European. The best thing about the Porzingis pick is that it signals that Phil/the front office isn't primarily concerned with the drive for .500 in the Melo era, but with maybe, possibly, actually building something here. If you think someone is a superior talent, passing on him to take an inferior talent because you are concerned about fit on your 15 win team is batshit insane. And as far as Porzingis being a project, I'm not sure why the guy who played professional basketball is seen as more of a project than the guys who played 1 year of college. It's rare any draftee contributes their first year or two in the league.
   2693. . Posted: June 26, 2015 at 07:00 PM (#4987123)
At this point would you do a Punto trade with Carmelo? Just dump him on a team like the Lakers if they would have him. I feel like I would but maybe he has more value than I think. I don't think LA would even do a Punto style trade but maybe I am nuts.

I'd offer him to the Lakers for Russell and Randle and I'd do it if they said Russell straight up.
   2694. rr Posted: June 26, 2015 at 07:02 PM (#4987124)
Francesa-esque mouthbreather


I think this needs to be my new handle.

Or maybe this:

basketball hipster reaction
   2695. Avoid Running At All Times- S. Paige Posted: June 26, 2015 at 07:13 PM (#4987129)
One of the ironies is that Francesa is probably the only New York sports radio host whose view on the selection even remotely aligns with the Knicks fans here. He is totally on board with jettisoning Melo but doesn't think it's possible and he finds the Zinger pick intriguing. Meanwhile it sure seems like Stephen A. is being the mouthpiece for Melo.
   2696. rr Posted: June 26, 2015 at 07:16 PM (#4987131)
I think Ainge is a good GM, but I am skeptical about this narrative that has popped up here that presents him as some kind of roster-construction and personnel Einstein. Building a winner in the NBA takes smarts, luck, timing, and money. I think Boston has enough of the first one and the last one, but they still need some of the middle two. Ainge isn't a genius.

Masai Ujiri gave an interview early in the season when Toronto was rolling, and one of the things he said was that luck plays a bigger role in constructing a Finals-caliber squad than a lot of people seem to think. I agree with him.
   2697. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: June 26, 2015 at 07:27 PM (#4987135)
this narrative that has popped up here that presents him as some kind of roster-construction and personnel Einstein

Building a winner in the NBA takes smarts, luck, timing, and money. I think Boston has enough of the first one and the last one, but they still need some of the middle two

FWIW, I agree wholeheartedly with the second proposition, and not with the first (though to be pedantic, there's no contradiction).
   2698. . Posted: June 26, 2015 at 08:30 PM (#4987195)
Meanwhile it sure seems like Stephen A. is being the mouthpiece for Melo.

It's been pretty clear for a very long time that you can't build a winner around the guy -- at the very latest when he threw a hissy fit about Linsanity in the middle of a long winning streak, and got the coach fired. When that cold realization smacks you in the face, you simply have to Move. On.

In magnitude, delusion, and tone deafness, this latest hissy fit, coming off a 17-win year when all you cared about was the All-Star Game, and when the team has $20+ million in cap room and free agency hasn't even started yet may very well be unprecedented in the annals of the Association. What in the #### is going through this guy's head?
   2699. theboyqueen Posted: June 26, 2015 at 10:28 PM (#4987263)
Who says no: Carmelo for Rudy Gay?
   2700. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 26, 2015 at 10:32 PM (#4987266)
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