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Monday, June 01, 2015

OT: Monthly NBA Thread - June 2015

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: trusting the Red Sox process.

The District Attorney Posted: June 01, 2015 at 11:11 AM | 3045 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   2701. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 26, 2015 at 10:32 PM (#4987267)
Who says no: Carmelo for Rudy Gay?


You couldn't pay me enough to take Carmelo's contract and his baggage. Nooooo thank you.
   2702. theboyqueen Posted: June 26, 2015 at 10:55 PM (#4987284)
I see Carmelo slowly evolving into Zach Randolph with much more range. Poor defense but if the Kings run things right it shouldn't matter. Contract and baggage are the only reasons he would be available and with the upcoming cap increase his salary won't look so bad, and it would be fun to see the Kings take advantage of another team's dysfunction for once. He has a no trade clause and would probably refuse a trade to Sac but who knows?

I don't understand at all what the Knicks are going for. Porzingis is more of a ball stopper than Carmelo ever was -- he can't (won't?) pass the ball at all. I don't actually believe Phil is making the basketball decisions there.
   2703. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 26, 2015 at 11:11 PM (#4987288)
My perception--which may well be wrong--but by perception is that falling in love with a guy's shooting to the exclusion of all other basketball skills is one of the oldest mistakes in basketball scouting, still persisting to this day. In baseball it's a pitcher's velocity or a position player's power; in football it's a quarterback's arm strength or any other player's 40-yard-dash time.

These are very obvious and very flashy skills, and it's so very easy even for seasoned scouting professionals to fall hopelessly in love with them. But ultimately it's just one skill, and to play effectively at the highest level you need multiple skills. A quarterback's arm strength means jackshit if he can't read a defense or if he can't master accuracy and timing. A basketball player's ability to drain shot after shot after shot in workouts means jackshit if he can't create shots for himself and for his teammates; and even if he can do that he still has to play defense, get some rebounds, and so on.

I wonder if Steph Curry has encouraged this kind of thinking, if people are going crazy about shooters right now because everyone's afraid of missing the next Steph Curry (spoiler: there isn't going to be another Steph Curry anytime soon.) I suspect it's more about the primal "Wow!" instinct to watching a guy shoot the lights out, though.

I think Porzingis and Frank Kaminsky were both badly overdrafted because it's so easy to fall in love with their shooting in workouts, and on film against overmatched opponents that aren't really much more relevant to scoring against NBA defenses than an empty gym is.

I'm new to seriously following basketball, I probably don't really understand what is going on, and I'm probably wrong. We'll see.
   2704. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: June 26, 2015 at 11:13 PM (#4987289)
Who says no: Carmelo for Rudy Gay?

George Karl.
   2705. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: June 26, 2015 at 11:22 PM (#4987295)
Porzingis is more of a ball stopper than Carmelo ever was -- he can't (won't?) pass the ball at all.

Honestly curious what this is based on or what this is referencing.

I think Porzingis and Frank Kaminsky were both badly overdrafted because it's so easy to fall in love with their shooting in workouts, and on film against overmatched opponents that aren't really much more relevant to scoring against NBA defenses than an empty gym is.

Can't speak for Kaminsky, but Porzingis also measured great and played well in (once again) the second best league in the world. It's strange to me that people are acting as though Porzingis is some unknown that came out of nowhere. He was Top 5 on draft boards over a year ago and played well this year. Who would have made that much a better pick in that spot?
   2706. tshipman Posted: June 26, 2015 at 11:24 PM (#4987296)
Honestly curious what this is based on or what this is referencing.


The Zinger had a really low assist rate: sub 1 per 40.

Can't speak for Kaminsky, but Porzingis also measured great and played well in (once again) the second best league in the world. It's strange to me that people are acting as though Porzingis is some unknown that came out of nowhere. He was Top 5 on draft boards over a year ago and played well this year. Who would have made that much a better pick in that spot?


I kinda agree with this. Porzingis is a project, but he's not a bad pick.
   2707. theboyqueen Posted: June 26, 2015 at 11:26 PM (#4987297)
I really believe Kaminsky is a better version of whatever Porzingis is supposed to be. Charlotte just seems like such a poor fit we may never see it.

Porzingis' ability to shoot over the kinds of guys that will guard him will probably save him from being a total bust, but I think his ceiling is very low. He's very slow, doesn't jump that well (both of which get worse if he puts on weight), can't put the ball on the floor, can't play out of the post, and cannot pass at all. Seems like a pure pick and pop/spot up from the corner guy which makes it kind of hilarious that Phil Jackson drafted him. I hope I'm wrong, he seems like a cool kid.

And yes, the fact that he perfomed decently against a higher level of competition than anyone else in the draft is another thing that argues against bust.

I see him as a high floor, low ceiling guy which goes against the "project" narrative.
   2708. theboyqueen Posted: June 26, 2015 at 11:36 PM (#4987301)
Ethan Strauss @SherwoodStrauss
Given their historic success, it's amazing Duke's never produced an NBA player who'd make the Hall strictly on his NBA games


Grant Hill seems like a clear HOF player based solely on his NBA career to me. At peak ('96-'97) had an argument for best player in the league and a very long, if discontinuous career (which is admittedly less valuable than a continuous one) mostly at a pretty high level.

And I think Elton Brand has an even better HOF case. I always forget he was a Duke guy.
   2709. never forget: the pee tape is 57i66135 Posted: June 26, 2015 at 11:38 PM (#4987304)
I kinda agree with this. Porzingis is a project, but he's not a bad pick.
the knicks were probably the worst place for him to go. combine the media attention, nightlife, poor teammates, a novice as head coach and clownshoes front office and it's easy to see how his development could go sideways.

Porzingis' ability to shoot over the kinds of guys that will guard him will probably save him from being a total bust, but I think his ceiling is very low. He's very slow, doesn't jump that well (both of which get worse if he puts on weight), can't put the ball on the floor, can't play out of the post, and cannot pass at all. Seems like a pure pick and pop/spot up from the corner guy which makes it kind of hilarious that Phil Jackson drafted him. I hope I'm wrong, he seems like a cool kid.

two words: jump hook.

when this guy gets good, anything within 15 feet will be a layup. i'd get him some looks from the short corner and run some pick and rolls for him, but his bread and butter should be getting the ball on the block, taking one dribble and either getting to the rim or throwing up a hook. with his length, mobility and shooting touch, i think following kareem's path is more likely to yield success than following dirk's.
   2710. never forget: the pee tape is 57i66135 Posted: June 26, 2015 at 11:40 PM (#4987305)
And I think Elton Brand has an even better HOF case. I always forget he was a Duke guy.

DSPN:
Thank you very much, for reminding me of the reason why I left Duke. People like you can not and will not ever understand my situation. I’m sure daddy worked very hard to send your rich self to college. While real people struggle. I would also like to extend an invitation for you not to waste your or my time ever agin. Never being considered a part of your posh group of yuppies really hurts me to the heart. Yeah, right. Because I don’t care about you or your alumni.

Sincerely,

Elton Brand #42 NBA
   2711. theboyqueen Posted: June 26, 2015 at 11:51 PM (#4987314)
Wow I'd never seen that before. He's such a quiet guy but that is freaking awesome.

when this guy gets good, anything within 15 feet will be a layup. i'd get him some looks from the short corner and run some pick and rolls for him, but his bread and butter should be getting the ball on the block, taking one dribble and either getting to the rim or throwing up a hook. with his length, mobility and shooting touch, i think following kareem's path is more likely to yield success than following dirk's.


I dunno, unless he gets either much quicker or much thicker he will lead the league in turnovers if he tries to play this way. He's developed some sort of gym-rat reputation so maybe he will figure it out. Carmelo's the perfect guy to show him how to do this but Carmelo would probably rather sabotage his development than help him along, just to prove a point.
   2712. never forget: the pee tape is 57i66135 Posted: June 27, 2015 at 12:08 AM (#4987325)
I dunno, unless he gets either much quicker or much thicker he will lead the league in turnovers if he tries to play this way. He's developed some sort of gym-rat reputation so maybe he will figure it out. Carmelo's the perfect guy to show him how to do this but Carmelo would probably rather sabotage his development than help him along, just to prove a point.
that's why the power dribble is important. you're not gonna turn him over when he takes a single dribble, but that one dribble gives him three and a half steps, and when things click for him, those steps will get him any shot he wants.

given jackson's comments about threes, i wonder if that might actually be how they plan to use him.
   2713. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: June 27, 2015 at 12:10 AM (#4987326)
Porzingis' ability to shoot over the kinds of guys that will guard him will probably save him from being a total bust, but I think his ceiling is very low. He's very slow, doesn't jump that well

From Porzingis' Draft Express profile:
Porzingis is extremely athletic for a player his size. He runs the floor well, is very mobile, and plays above the rim with ease. His big, long strides allow him to cover a huge amount of ground, as you often see him running stride for stride with players much smaller than him, which helps him as a rim-runner in transition and defensively on the pick and roll.

From his ESPN scouting profile:
Long, athletic big man
Good lateral quickness for a player his size
Good perimeter shooter with three point range
Excellent player in transition
Good ball handler, can create off the dribble
Good defender who can guard multiple positions
Excellent shot blocker
   2714. theboyqueen Posted: June 27, 2015 at 12:16 AM (#4987328)
I can't find a single bit of footage showing Porzingis doing anything like what you are describing so if that's the plan, then, yeah "project" is a word that fits.

EDIT -- that was for Steagles.
   2715. tshipman Posted: June 27, 2015 at 12:16 AM (#4987329)
I really believe Kaminsky is a better version of whatever Porzingis is supposed to be. Charlotte just seems like such a poor fit we may never see it.

Porzingis' ability to shoot over the kinds of guys that will guard him will probably save him from being a total bust, but I think his ceiling is very low. He's very slow, doesn't jump that well (both of which get worse if he puts on weight), can't put the ball on the floor, can't play out of the post, and cannot pass at all. Seems like a pure pick and pop/spot up from the corner guy which makes it kind of hilarious that Phil Jackson drafted him. I hope I'm wrong, he seems like a cool kid.

And yes, the fact that he perfomed decently against a higher level of competition than anyone else in the draft is another thing that argues against bust.


No offense, but I think just about every part of this is wrong.
1. He's much, much better than Kaminsky. He's significantly more athletic, despite being younger and playing in a better league. He might be able to be a rim protector in the future.
2. He certainly doesn't seem to be slow or unable to put the ball on the floor. He has low turnover numbers and shot a very high percentage on his 2p shots (indicating he gets to the rim). Further, he takes about 5 FTs per 40, indicating he does more than just shoot it.

He really does seem to not be a great passer, but it's really hard to tell because you don't know how Spanish league stats translate and what his team asked him to do.
   2716. theboyqueen Posted: June 27, 2015 at 12:27 AM (#4987333)
Draft Express Alexis Ajinca (I'm assuming "undersized" is a typo -- he's the exact size as Porzingis):
STRENGTHS:
- Timing
- Ability to face the basket
- Pick and roll defense
- Shot-blocking skills
- Shot-blocking tools
- Basketball IQ
- Huge upside
- Unselfishness
- Work ethic
- Solid passer
- Ability to finish around basket
- Athleticism
- Excellent wingspan
- Fluidity
- Size for position
- Undersized
- 3-point range


He already has what should be an unblockable jump hook. He's also playing against even better competition than Porzingis.
   2717. theboyqueen Posted: June 27, 2015 at 12:36 AM (#4987334)
Ajinca's DX video in case anyone is interested. They look like very similar players to me (Ajinca has a much more mature body obviously).
   2718. theboyqueen Posted: June 27, 2015 at 12:50 AM (#4987339)
Better athlete, much better body, equal shooter(?) -- Myers Leonard.
   2719. tshipman Posted: June 27, 2015 at 12:51 AM (#4987340)
Ajinca was really good last year (in limited minutes).

I'm not sure what the point is.
   2720. theboyqueen Posted: June 27, 2015 at 01:04 AM (#4987341)
"Really good" is a stretch, but the point is that he did that in his age 26 season against NBA competition after putting up absolutely dominant Euroleague stats. I don't see where Porzingis has any higher upside than that.

Ajinca could definitely be a hell of a player if he managed to stay out of foul trouble. He's obviously on the wrong team though.
   2721. theboyqueen Posted: June 27, 2015 at 01:06 AM (#4987342)
The most hopeful sign that Ranadive has learned some humility is that the Kings didn't trade into the second round to draft Satnam Singh.
   2722. Manny Coon Posted: June 27, 2015 at 01:07 AM (#4987343)
Ajinca played in France when he was Porzingis age, playing only about 10 minutes a game, Spain is much tougher league, Porzingas played over 20 minutes a game both there and in the Eurocup, in total of 50 games.

Ajinca didn't put up real stats in Euroleague until after he washed out of the NBA and was in his mid-20s.
   2723. theboyqueen Posted: June 27, 2015 at 01:13 AM (#4987345)
Yeah I get all that. I just don't see the tools and think he moves funny. I could be wrong.

I also think Chad Ford is an exceptionally poor analyst and would like him to be embarrassed yet another time (Dirk/Durant comparisons!), but that is very negative of me and I apologize to the gods.
   2724. aberg Posted: June 27, 2015 at 02:13 AM (#4987351)
Ajinca had work ethic issues in his first go round. The Pelicans' announcers made a big deal about how he was a new man when they brought him back this year.

I actually agree with a lot of what steagles said. I think he can shoot or play off of 1-2 dribbles. Fwiw, I was way too thin and used a power dribble to compensate when I was younger.
   2725. rr Posted: June 27, 2015 at 02:23 AM (#4987355)
Brook Lopez officially opted out today. Also, there are RUMORS! (probably meaning "player agents and their staffers leaking stuff to internet media guys who are active on Twitter") that:

Orlando may let Tobias Harris walk, now that they have Mario Hezonja.
D'Andre Jordan will seriously consider Dallas and Milwaukee, even though the Clippers are really good and can offer more money. Supposedly Jordan and Paul have some issues and Jordan wants to be out of the Paul/Griffin Vortex.
   2726. rr Posted: June 27, 2015 at 02:48 AM (#4987356)
DeAndre, actually.
   2727. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 27, 2015 at 09:24 AM (#4987389)
I can't imagine how living and working with Chris Paul every day could wear a person out.
   2728. GregD Posted: June 27, 2015 at 10:10 AM (#4987411)
Zwerling says David West to Knicks
   2729. theboyqueen Posted: June 27, 2015 at 10:15 AM (#4987414)
Zwerling says David West to Knicks


Unless this is for something like 2yrs/8m...huh?!?
   2730. puck Posted: June 27, 2015 at 12:51 PM (#4987544)
I can't imagine how living and working with Chris Paul every day could wear a person out.


Too many passes taken off the side of the head?
   2731. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 27, 2015 at 01:53 PM (#4987577)
I don't know if we're finishing this up or not, or if the fact of the actual draft has derailed things entirely, but just in case:

With the 50th pick of the 2015 Mock NBA Draft, the Atlanta Hawks take Some Forward, Small or Power, That I Have No Idea About, because reasons and stuff.

With the 59th pick of the 2015 Mock NBA Draft, the Atlanta Hawks pick Someone Who Will Take A Couple Mil To Hurt Matthew Dellevadova.
   2732. The District Attorney Posted: June 27, 2015 at 03:28 PM (#4987621)
Jordan wants to be out of the Paul/Griffin Vortex.
I thought he and Blake were BFFs?

There were also reports that Melo was consulted on the Porzingis decision and approved. So it's not even clear that he dislikes it, never mind that he's throwing a fit over it. None of that is an issue, IMO.

The interesting thing for me to ponder is whether Phil is trying to shoot the moon and get younger while simultaneously getting better... or whether the long-term plan is to trade Melo and do a full rebuild. Phil did mention in his Times interview that he doesn't want players around who care more about their "branding" than the team. Melo, in any event, cares deeply about his branding. And then, when the reporter smartly followed up by asking why Melo played in the All-Star Game, Phil had no trouble admitting that it was because of Melo's shoe contract.

Phil is extraordinarily difficult to read, as we just discovered. But if you did want to set the scene for a Melo trade without irking the fans or the player himself, you would probably do the sort of things he is doing.

If that's how it turns out, and you thus remove Melo's age and position from the equation, that would completely change my opinion of the Porzingis pick.

(One thing I do still wonder, however -- even if we were to limit the field to Euros who were potentially best available at #4 -- is why not Hezonja instead. It's much easier for me to envision what Hezonja would be doing as a star NBA player than what Porzingis would be doing. The only route I can see to stardom for Porzingis to is to become Dirk Nowitzki -- shoot the lights out and contribute some weak-side blocks. It doesn't seem plausible that he's going to pass, rebound, protect the rim, or play man defense. So, Porzingis has to become this very specific and hyper-skilled thing, while Hezonja has to become better within the typical shooting guard skill set he has. Even putting aside "fit"/"timeline" entirely, I have trouble believing Porzingis was the best player available.)
   2733. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: June 27, 2015 at 03:38 PM (#4987629)
30 years from now teams will probably still be overdrafting big Europeans who can shoot and do little else in the hopes of finding another Dirk.
   2734. rr Posted: June 27, 2015 at 03:52 PM (#4987640)
I thought he and Blake were BFFs?


Supposedly DAJ wants more touches,etc. But he has no personal issues with Griffin--just Paul. We will see if any of this means much when he actually has to sign a contract.

is why not Hezonja instead.


You can't teach height.

And yes, there are some who think that Phil is hoping Anthony will want out now.
   2735. JC in DC Posted: June 27, 2015 at 07:20 PM (#4987710)
Wouldn't it be great if Porzingis turned out to be a taller, perhaps less electric version of Durant? Durant is not a big assist, rebounding, rim protecting, defensive wonder, right? And yet he contributes. I'm not saying Porzingis will be Durant, but perhaps his scoring is weaker, and some of the other facets better? Isn't that the ceiling?

And regardless of what happens to Melo, the team has, all of a sudden, two young pieces that seem quite promising. Turning Hardaway into Grant, who I've watched since he was in 6th grade and who just seems to get smarter and better every year, was a coup. I can't believe we added a PG who can defend and see the court and has good ability to penetrate. He's got Ron Harper's size, more or less, and runs the point so well. Just a huge get.

I like this stuff. Forward-looking. Melo independent, whatever happens to Melo. All this will fall into place (or not) depending on what happens in free agency. I don't immediately see what West brings should he be added, but perhaps some of you might. (Maturity? Better locker-room guy? Kick Melo's ass?)
   2736. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: June 27, 2015 at 07:59 PM (#4987728)
The only route I can see to stardom for Porzingis to is to become Dirk Nowitzki -- shoot the lights out and contribute some weak-side blocks. It doesn't seem plausible that he's going to pass, rebound, protect the rim, or play man defense.


Who knows, but pretty much every scouting report I've seen says that with his quickness, length, and jumping ability, he can be a good defender and rim protector. I think passing and rebounding will be weak points, and post defense with his lack of strength. I'm also skeptical of how successful any 7'1" or 7'2" guy can be dribbling in the half-court, but it sounds like his handle is tight enough to let him lead a fastbreak. Porzingis' upside kind of sounds like a rich man's Ibaka to me, with enough handle and post moves to actually create for himself in the half-court (I like the idea of the power dribble for him) and the length and athleticism to be a rim protector without the body to bang down low.

I would much rather have Porzingis than Hezonja personally, since the latter never draws FT and has a JR Smithian shot selection, but I can see the arguments for Mudiay or Winslow at 4.
   2737. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: June 27, 2015 at 08:02 PM (#4987732)
I'm just glad Flip didn't screw the whole thing up.
   2738. spivey Posted: June 27, 2015 at 09:02 PM (#4987767)
If Dekker/Lyles are good athletes, why do they get fewer than 1 block or steal per 40 minutes?

I don't think they're necessarily crazy athletes, but they're legitimate NBA athletes.

But, a lot of this can be who you play with, team philosophy, etc. Wisconsin plays an absurdly slow pace and is much more about playing positionally on defense. Justin Anderson from UVa, is probably the best athlete in the draft and was in the discussion with WCS for best defender in all of college and he didn't get many blocks or steals mainly because of the type of guys he guarded and the style of defense that Virginia plays.
   2739. never forget: the pee tape is 57i66135 Posted: June 27, 2015 at 10:41 PM (#4987805)
I actually agree with a lot of what steagles said.
you don't have to say that like it'll only happen once in your lifetime.
(I like the idea of the power dribble for him)

I think he can shoot or play off of 1-2 dribbles. Fwiw, I was way too thin and used a power dribble to compensate when I was younger.
the power dribble is a beautiful thing. seeing a big in the post dribble the air out of the ball with no intention of going to the basket makes my blood boil. between pivots, pump fakes, bank shots and the three and a half steps you get from the power dribble, i'm at a loss as to why there are so few great post players these days.

maybe i'm just saying that for the obvious reason, but if you have any physical advantage over whoever's guarding you, you can get a clean look 3/4 of the time. you still have to make the shot and it might only be a baseline jumper from 10 feet out, but that's a worst case scenario and if you can hit that shot, you can always get it.
   2740. Howie Menckel Posted: June 27, 2015 at 11:10 PM (#4987808)

"David West to Knicks"

West is almost 35, he is a serious person, and he grew up in Teaneck, NJ - a dozen miles from the Garden. There are worse places to end up (ignoring roster considerations)

   2741. Norcan Posted: June 28, 2015 at 09:53 AM (#4987865)
Wouldn't it be great if Porzingis turned out to be a taller, perhaps less electric version of Durant? Durant is not a big assist, rebounding, rim protecting, defensive wonder, right? And yet he contributes. I'm not saying Porzingis will be Durant, but perhaps his scoring is weaker, and some of the other facets better? Isn't that the ceiling?


Durant is absolutely a big assist and rebounding guy, especially for a small forward. His rebounding average high is 8, which is fantastic for his position and has been usually in the 7s, also fantastic. And he averaged 5.5 assists just a few seasons ago and during the time Westbrook for out for awhile, he averaged over 7 assists a game. I failed to understand how one can watch him create for teammates in transition or a ballhandler off high middle-screens time and time again and say that's not an extremely impressive part of his game. I always thought his playmaking skills developed from scratch in the NBA until I saw a game from his rookie season against the Celtics. His passing vision was there all along.

I think Porzingis might be more in the Bargnani camp than Dirk and especially Durant. With the Dirk comp, it's just so hard to project anyone being that kind of shooter. I guess it's not impossible since Dirk wasn't an elite shooter when he was 18/19 years old but I'm skeptical. I can't compare Porzingis and Bargnani at the same age because I didn't see Bargnani play at 19 but I would give Bargnani the edge based on what I remember. I like Bargnani's ability to put the ball on the floor and drive against defenders much more than Porzingis' who plays way too upright and couldn't get past pretty underwhelming defenders.
   2742. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: June 28, 2015 at 11:12 AM (#4987897)
The Sixers have been fined $3 million for failing to fully disclose Jrue Holiday's injury history to New Orleans when they traded him (along with Pierre Jackson) for Nerlens Noel and a future 1st rounder. Reportedly Holiday dealt with stress fractures in his right leg during his last season in Philly. The article also notes that the Sixers are seeking payment from the Lakers for failure to disclose the true extent of Andrew Bynum's knee problems.

   2743. JC in DC Posted: June 28, 2015 at 11:27 AM (#4987902)
I love Durant and argued for him over Oden years ago. But he's a 3.3 assists per 36 guy for his career for a guy with the ball in his hand a lot. His rebounding is fine. I'll be very pleased if Kristaps averages 6 a game like Durant dues. If nothing what it'll show he's in the court a bunch.
   2744. Norcan Posted: June 28, 2015 at 11:56 AM (#4987912)
I love Durant and argued for him over Oden years ago. But he's a 3.3 assists per 36 guy for his career for a guy with the ball in his hand a lot.


Okay, if you want to use career averages and not the player he's become. I doubt he's going to average as few as 3.3 assists in any season for a long time. I'd be pretty confident he'd be a 5 plus assist guy regularly if he didn't have one of the highest usage players as a teammate.
   2745. Norcan Posted: June 28, 2015 at 12:00 PM (#4987914)
His rebounding is fine. I'll be very pleased if Kristaps averages 6 a game like Durant dues. If nothing what it'll show he's in the court a bunch.


6 rebounds/36 per game would be horrible for a PF/C. That's Bargnani territory.
   2746. Norcan Posted: June 28, 2015 at 12:39 PM (#4987936)
Justin Anderson from UVa, is probably the best athlete in the draft and was in the discussion with WCS for best defender in all of college and he didn't get many blocks or steals mainly because of the type of guys he guarded and the style of defense that Virginia plays.


Speaking of Justin Anderson, I was checking out his measurement comparables on draftexpress' measurement database and right above him is Anthony Brown and I think we have a new leader in the orthotics race, displacing former leader Cole Aldrich (unofficially only because unfortunately I didn't scour the entire database subtracting heights with shoes and without; in due time though). Aldrich had measured 6'9 in his birthday feet and a no longer whooping 6'11.25 in shoes. Anthony Brown blew him away with a 6'5.25 and 6'8.5 split!! Those Rocky Horror type shoes helped him net a 3.5 inch longer standing reach than Justin Anderson though they were the same height without shoes. It's really a miracle he can run and jump with those shoes on.
   2747. theboyqueen Posted: June 28, 2015 at 01:05 PM (#4987953)
Anthony Brown blew him away with a 6'5.25 and 6'8.5 split!!

It's really a miracle he can run and jump with those shoes on.


Upside: Ginger Rogers
   2748. never forget: the pee tape is 57i66135 Posted: June 28, 2015 at 01:31 PM (#4987963)
The Sixers have been fined $3 million for failing to fully disclose Jrue Holiday's injury history to New Orleans when they traded him (along with Pierre Jackson) for Nerlens Noel and a future 1st rounder. Reportedly Holiday dealt with stress fractures in his right leg during his last season in Philly. The article also notes that the Sixers are seeking payment from the Lakers for failure to disclose the true extent of Andrew Bynum's knee problems.
that's obviously not good, but i think the sixers deserve some benefit of the doubt there. jrue holiday had been extremely durable, playing all but 5 games over the previous 3 seasons and the organization basically purged its entire front office that offseason, so i think it's more likely to be an oversight than anything nefarious.


   2749. jmurph Posted: June 28, 2015 at 01:41 PM (#4987965)
Boston should have an interesting offseason. By my count they have 11 guys under contract, not counting their two first round picks and the 2nd rounders they presumably want to keep, not counting Bass and Crowder and Jerebko and Datome, who they supposedly want to bring back. I'm sure some of those 11 have opt-outs or team options that I'm not aware of, but still. Lot of players, lot of youth, some upside, but also a lot of mediocrity. Assuming, again, that they can't get Love (or Aldridge, obviously), I just don't understand what they're going to be able to do with all of these guys that are 23 or younger.

Also I may be the only Celtics fan that feels this way, but I hate having Bradley on this team. He's not exactly overpaid*, but is he really much better than a replacement-level player? He still can't shoot. He's still a 6'2 guard who can't be your primary ballhandler. He's still a good to great perimeter defender, sure, but he's just entirely unnecessary on this team given where they are.

*Eh, you know he's probably overpaid. 25ish million over the next 3 years.
   2750. Norcan Posted: June 28, 2015 at 02:00 PM (#4987971)
Also I may be the only Celtics fan that feels this way, but I hate having Bradley on this team.


Oh no, you are not the only one. I think he's a well-below average player. I think my antipathy goes a step further than yours because I think his defense is very overrated. It's flashy as heck with his quick, constantly moving feet but opposing guards don't find him hard to get by. He also doesn't get bonus points for defensive versatility.

I was stunned when they signed him to an extension as it came before he could hit restricted free agency. I was already ready to move on from an undersized guard who can't dribble or pass and loves, absolutely loves to shoot the ball. It's disheartening that Ainge commits to a player who rates terribly in a lot stats, traditional and advanced.
   2751. jmurph Posted: June 28, 2015 at 02:37 PM (#4987986)
You're probably right about his defense, Norcan. Related, it's not clear they see Smart as a true, full time point guard, right? And if that's the case, he needs to be getting all of Bradley's minutes this year.
   2752. Norcan Posted: June 28, 2015 at 02:41 PM (#4987988)
I think I'm a bigger fan of the Celtics' last pick in the draft, Marcus Thornton, than their first pick, Terry Rozier. Thornton is actually an inch taller, pretty lengthy himself, also an undersized 2-guard rather than a point guard, also tested out as a great athlete but he can actually shoot from three. I guess neither profiles as a starter and in that case, I would prefer the shorter guard with shooting range off the bench. Despite being a senior compared to a sophomore like Rozier, he's also only one year older because Rozier spent a year in prep school after high school.
   2753. rr Posted: June 28, 2015 at 03:17 PM (#4988000)
From a New Orleans paper (Monroe is from there and talked to them at a camp):

When the NBA’s free-agency period begins Wednesday, New Orleanian Greg Monroe will be one of the top big men available.

Monroe, an unrestricted free agent who played five years with the Detroit Pistons, joins centers Marc Gasol and DeAndre Jordan and power forward LaMarcus Aldridge as those available who could most bolster a team’s frontcourt.

Five teams have shown serious interest — the Boston Celtics, New York Knicks, Milwaukee Bucks, Los Angeles Lakers and Portland Trail Blazers. Monroe said he’ll meet with those teams this week.
   2754. theboyqueen Posted: June 28, 2015 at 03:50 PM (#4988016)
Monroe is basically the middle-class Boogie Cousins. For some reason it seems wrong that he's not on the Knicks. I hope they fix that.
   2755. Joey B. is counting the days to Trea Turner Posted: June 28, 2015 at 05:02 PM (#4988060)
I'll be damned, LeBron is a free agent.

There's no way that he can possibly bail out on Cleveland again after just one year, right? Especially after that big tearjerker he wrote about coming back home?
   2756. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: June 28, 2015 at 05:17 PM (#4988067)
It's strictly procedural - he's re-upping.
   2757. jmurph Posted: June 28, 2015 at 08:26 PM (#4988162)
I've always liked Monroe and find the "plodding, old-fashioned big man" narrative to be a bit weird with him. I'm not saying it's not true (have barely seen Detroit the last couple of years, so I can't really say), but in college he seemed to have a decent mid-range game, and was a very good passer. He's certainly bulked up since he got in the league, but I imagine he's still capable of doing more than just hanging around the rim on offense.
   2758. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: June 28, 2015 at 08:33 PM (#4988164)
For sure.
   2759. Norcan Posted: June 28, 2015 at 09:05 PM (#4988173)
I'm not in favor of pursuing Monroe. And yeah, he really is plodding; he runs like he has wooden clogs on. Thus far in his career, he hasn't taken many mid-range jumpers or made many of them. Last season he only attempted .076% of his shots from longer than 10 feet and shot under 35%. A majority of his shots do come close to the rim but it's not necessarily because he's hanging around there all the time. He's very good at backing in from further out or driving to the rim.

I think he's a solid player but just not worth the years and money it'll take to sign him. I'm not sure you can win big with a guy who can't defend the rim at all and can be neutralized by good defenders.
   2760. Norcan Posted: June 28, 2015 at 09:12 PM (#4988177)
Since apparently Kobe hasn't come out and said he's retiring for sure after next season, I think he'll come back for more. One of the biggest reasons I feel that way is there is no way a player who has maximized his salary as much as he has is going to retire before the salary cap takes a big jump. If he has a good season and shows he has more in the tank, he'll be looking to cash in even more.
   2761. jmurph Posted: June 28, 2015 at 09:14 PM (#4988179)
I think he's a solid player but just not worth the years and money it'll take to sign him. I'm not sure you can win big with a guy who can't defend the rim at all and can be neutralized by good defenders.


I'm torn. I'm inclined to say he'd be good paired with a rim defender, but that was basically Detroit, and SVG is clearly comfortable moving on. I don't know. I'm not guaranteeing success for whoever pays him, but I'm not convinced he can't be one of your best/highest paid 3 players on a winning team.
   2762. RollingWave Posted: June 28, 2015 at 10:10 PM (#4988205)
Better athlete, much better body, equal shooter(?) -- Myers Leonard.

Sure. except that Leonard couldn't get on the floor in NCAA at the same age of Porzingis on a not particularly strong team in a ok conference. and didn't show a 3 pointer until age 23, meanwhile, Porzingis played pretty heavy minutes for one of the better teams in the second best pro league in the world that featured a bunch of former NBA players.

If He shoots like Leonard this year, but puts up a 17-19 PER instead of 12-14 PER, is that a good player? I'd say that's at least a starter in the league.

Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if Porzingis bust to some extend. but then pretty much all these guys are likely to be much less than what we think they are right now. sure, there might be a Paul George hidden in one of those wings drafted in the mid first, but it's also very possible that they're all Evan Turners / Wes Johnson / Al-Farouq Aminu (all wings taken before Paul George that year.)

I mean, chances are, this draft isn't going to be better than the 2010 draft, that produced 1 to maybe 2 top 10 player , and several other stars / max guys. you know what, the undrafted Jeremy Lin is arguably the 10th best player in that group. and he's probably the closest thing to a statistical average NBA player.

So chill, chances are at least half of the first rounders aren't even going to be rotation players in the league, and a bunch more are just decent role players. that year Evan Turner was the #2 pick ( a pretty big bust.) Wes Mathews was #4 and Epke Udoh was #6 (two gigantic bust.)

   2763. tshipman Posted: June 28, 2015 at 11:08 PM (#4988218)
Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if Porzingis bust to some extend. but then pretty much all these guys are likely to be much less than what we think they are right now.


Mostly this. Prospect hounds always talk about guys projecting as all stars and all that. The vast majority of the 1st rounders will be out of the NBA within 5 years.
   2764. PJ Martinez Posted: June 28, 2015 at 11:28 PM (#4988222)
The vast majority of the 1st rounders will be out of the NBA within 5 years.

This strikes me as pretty wrong. Just glancing over the 2008, 2009, and 2010 drafts, e.g., it looks me like a solid two thirds of the players from those years are still in the league. I didn't count, so that's give or take, but most of the first-rounders from five to seven years ago are still in the NBA.
   2765. theboyqueen Posted: June 28, 2015 at 11:46 PM (#4988226)
I have said this before, but nobody ever has projected to be a Kevin Durant or Dirk Nowitzki at age 19, and that includes Durant and Nowitzki.
   2766. tshipman Posted: June 28, 2015 at 11:59 PM (#4988230)
This strikes me as pretty wrong. Just glancing over the 2008, 2009, and 2010 drafts, e.g., it looks me like a solid two thirds of the players from those years are still in the league. I didn't count, so that's give or take, but most of the first-rounders from five to seven years ago are still in the NBA.


You're right. 5 years is probably too short a time horizon.

Of the 2008 NBA draft, it looks like

In the top 10:
9 still in the league, 3 All NBA guys, one other all star.
Overall, just 5/30 are completely out of the league. However, several others are at the fringes. OJ Mayo is probably the biggest bust. Russell Westbrook would probably go first if there was a redraft (maybe not, not sure how Chicago fans feel about Rose vs. Westbrook right now).

Of the 2009 NBA draft, it looks like:

In the top 10:
8 still in the league, 3 all NBA, one other all star.
Overall 8/30 out of the league, with a few more at the fringes. Hasheem Thabeet (who else?) the biggest bust at #2, Steph Curry would probably go first if there was a redraft (maybe not tho, Blake is pretty good).

Of the 2010 NBA draft, it looks like:
In the top 10:
10/10 still in the league!! (probably not for long for Ekpe Udoh). Just two all nba, one other all star.
Despite the success in the top 10, 10/30 players out of the league, with a few more on the way. Biggest bust is probably Evan Turner at 2, and John Wall would probably still go #1 overall in a redraft (unless it's Boogie).

I'm surprised at how successful teams are in the first round (at least in a 5-7 year time frame). The actual bust rate is probably something like 1/3, which is significantly lower than I thought without looking.
   2767. RollingWave Posted: June 29, 2015 at 01:35 AM (#4988238)
I'm surprised at how successful teams are in the first round (at least in a 5-7 year time frame). The actual bust rate is probably something like 1/3, which is significantly lower than I thought without looking.

Ehh, a lot of the guys are fringe guys or ok rotation players (Tony Douglas , Earl Clack, Austin Daye, Tyler Hansbrough, Cole Aldrich, Wes Johnson etc Jordan Hill, Wayne Ellington, Omri Casspi, Grevis Vasquez, Patrick Patterson just to name a few.) though.

I'd say the median expected outcome in the first round is a solid role player (a guy you can expect to play in the 8 man rotation on most teams.) obviously if it's top 3 top 5 the odds of it beating that is much higher.


   2768. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: June 29, 2015 at 08:52 AM (#4988268)
Steph, yo.

I just saw this today so apologies if it's been covered.
   2769. theboyqueen Posted: June 29, 2015 at 10:14 AM (#4988295)
Steph, yo.

I just saw this today so apologies if it's been covered.


That's awesome. Oddly enough, I was watching the 1992 Dream Team finals against Croatia the other day on youtube for kicks. The two guys that impressed me most were actually Charles Barkley (a cross between Russell Westbrook and a frigging cannonball in the open court) and Drazen Petrovic, who was just so fearless and smooth against the greatest basketball team ever assembled. He belonged on that court, and he is definitely in the ancestral tree than leads to Steph Curry. Which makes the story doubly cool.

Actually Petrovic in that game reminded be of the Davidson Steph Curry, going up against Georgetown or Kansas. He was the one guy to stop and they couldn't.
   2770. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 29, 2015 at 01:18 PM (#4988423)
So, the Nets are looking to move Joe Johnson as an expiring...
   2771. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 29, 2015 at 01:36 PM (#4988440)
Why would they? They made the playoffs. They're just a piece away.

*cough*terribleorganization*cough*
   2772. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: June 29, 2015 at 01:39 PM (#4988443)
Kirk Hinrich opts in for next year. This is not a surprise, but I'm still disappointed and it's yet another thing the Bulls will have to overcome to contend.

This is getting interesting:

Lastly, Chicago forward Jimmy Butler hopes to take his talents elsewhere and take advantage of the new television deal after his career year coincided with Tom Thibodeau’s firing and Derrick Rose’s chemistry issues. Although Butler wants to sign a one-year deal with the Lakers, according to a league source familiar with his thinking, the Bulls are expected to match any offer for the restricted free agent.


As everyone all over the place is pointing out, the Lakers can't offer Jimmy a 1 year deal (or even a 2 year deal with an opt-out after year 1; they also can't offer a 3 year with opt-out after 2 once the Bulls offer the max). But there's enough out there that I have to accept Butler really isn't currently interested in staying with the Bulls long term. It very well could be his team trying to exert any leverage they have, as things have been pretty quiet from the Bulls end save for the "offering the full max" thing.

The way I read it is that the Bulls trump card is not offering anything shorter than the full max; they have little reason to want to give Butler anything that would get him a new contract or to UFA any sooner (especially if he really wants out). Butler's only real trump is signing the QO and playing out the year and becoming an UFA in a year. If Butler signs any sort of offer sheet, he's locked into a deal with the Bulls for 3 years, so that's probably the most likely scenario.
   2773. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 29, 2015 at 01:42 PM (#4988446)
*cough*terribleorganization*cough*


Alan Anderson is going FA too, which is intriguing to me as Demarre Carrol backup.
   2774. jmurph Posted: June 29, 2015 at 01:43 PM (#4988449)
So, the Nets are looking to move Joe Johnson as an expiring...


The Memphis talk makes some sense. Obviously Brooklyn would have to take a lot back: Jeff Green and Vince seem like the obvious starting parts of that deal. I don't know. On the one hand, he's still something of a threat. On the other hand, that is just so much money, I don't know that they have enough bad contracts on the books to make it worth it.
   2775. rr Posted: June 29, 2015 at 02:42 PM (#4988486)
if Butler signs any sort of offer sheet, he's locked into a deal with the Bulls for 3 years, so that's probably the most likely scenario.


That depends on how bad he wants out of Chicago, and I don't think anybody really knows that except Butler and a few of his people. I do think the Lakers and Knicks are sometimes used as stalking horses by agents et al in leaks, in part because outlets like SB Nation, where that stuff above shows up, need clicks and angry commenters, and a lot of folks get riled up when they read "Your guy is thinking about the Lakers." So I will believe the Lakers stuff when I see it. But Butler, like Monroe did, can bail in a year if he wants to.

   2776. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: June 29, 2015 at 02:50 PM (#4988493)
But Butler, like Monroe did, can bail in a year if he wants to.

Which I pointed out in the sentence directly before the part you quoted. Paragraph 1 is my educated guess on his leanings, which is purely a guess on my part. Paragraph 2 is about how his choices would play out in his contract offers.

I do agree with you on the Lakers/Knicks thing; things are leaked for a reason.
   2777. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 29, 2015 at 02:59 PM (#4988499)
I do think the Lakers and Knicks are sometimes used as stalking horses by agents et al in leaks, in part because outlets like SB Nation, where that stuff above shows up, need clicks and angry commenters, and a lot of folks get riled up when they read "Your guy is thinking about the Lakers." So I will believe the Lakers stuff when I see it.
Apropo to this, SB Nation and its mirror, Bleacher Report, have been claiming the Lakers are really, honestly, totally going to trade Russell for Cousins. Nevermind that the Lakers could have thrown them the #2 pick for Boogie last week if this were the case, but there's no chance in this world that Sacramento is going to send player worth anything to the one franchise they hate the most, much less their best player.

(I'm still holding out hope for LMA coming south.)
   2778. smileyy Posted: June 29, 2015 at 03:03 PM (#4988500)
Nevermind that the Lakers could have thrown them the #2 pick for Boogie last week


Well, I'm assuming that its the Kings saying no, but coaxing themselves into saying yes.
   2779. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 29, 2015 at 03:04 PM (#4988503)
Alan Anderson is going FA too, which is intriguing to me as Demarre Carrol backup.
The Hawks should make a run at Dudley or Aminu. Dudley might get priced out of their range, but he'd be perfect for that team.
   2780. rr Posted: June 29, 2015 at 03:06 PM (#4988506)
Which I pointed out in the sentence directly before the part you quoted.


Fair enough. But the key words there are "purely a guess." If Butler really wants out, he can sign the QO and hit UFA before his 27th birthday with a supposedly greatly expanded salary cap coming and half the league, including the Lakers, being flush with cap space. And I think that there will be guys looking to sign short deals of various types for exactly that reason (the league and cap, not the Lakers)--but that is, of course, a guess.

The problem with all the Lakers/Knicks stuff is simple, though: guys don't want to play on shitty teams. A lot of Lakers fans have been talking about Jordan, but today the story is, not surprisingly, that it will either be the Clippers or Dallas. I had read in several places that Monroe was strongly leaning Knicks and that Phil wants him, but today, supposedly he is telling his people that he wants to be on a team that is actually, you know, good.

So, I expect that if the Lakers do at some point swoop in and snag in-demand guys, it will be next year, when the cap has expanded, Kobe's deal is off the books, and they can theoretically get 2-3 guys at once.
   2781. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: June 29, 2015 at 05:02 PM (#4988583)
K.C. Johnson ‏@KCJHoop 12m12 minutes ago
Bulls making Dunleavy priority & will bid for him. Dunleavy comfortable here. But if Bulls don't land him, keep eye on Belinelli as target.


I like MJD just fine, but the Bulls could use some Belinelli back in their lives (on a better team, with a coach finding better ways to use him).
   2782. Squash Posted: June 29, 2015 at 05:19 PM (#4988591)
Since apparently Kobe hasn't come out and said he's retiring for sure after next season, I think he'll come back for more. One of the biggest reasons I feel that way is there is no way a player who has maximized his salary as much as he has is going to retire before the salary cap takes a big jump. If he has a good season and shows he has more in the tank, he'll be looking to cash in even more.

I think this would make for a very interesting negotiation. A lot of Lakers fans seem to have moved on from the Kobe era - there's a lot of talk about once Kobe's contract is off the books and such. I'm guessing the FO feels the same. I'm not sure what would constitute a good season, but he would have to really crush it to get a significant offer, let alone an up.

EDIT: Off the books, for example, like rr's comment above which I'm just seeing now. Apologies for the echo.
   2783. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: June 29, 2015 at 05:35 PM (#4988597)
Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 3m3 minutes ago
Sourcs: Charlotte has informed forward Bismack Biyombo that it won't tender a qualifying offer, making him an unrestricted free agent.
   2784. rr Posted: June 29, 2015 at 05:43 PM (#4988605)
Kupchak has already stated publicly that he thinks this is Bryant's last year, and Jeanie Buss has stated publicly that this year will be a "Kobe Celebration"--IOW, a Long Goodbye (if he can stay on the floor, which he has not been able to do in three years). Bryant himself is non-committal, as one would expect.

Lakers fans are like anybody else: we want the team either to win or failing that, to be able to feel like it is moving in the right direction. Bryant, as great as he has been, doesn't really help in either area anymore, and I think that once FA starts and the fanbase sees guys not coming here, there will be more negative noise about his contract. I said at the time that I was OK with letting him go out as the highest-paid player in the league--on a one-year deal. But for two years, they needed to offer him a lot less. I do not blame him for taking the deal, but I very much blame the FO for offering it.

Also, the fanbase will be expecting him to step back and play more off-ball this year, now that the decision has been made to draft Russell and with Clarkson looking like that he may be a pretty good player. Many people musing about possible Opening-night lineups are envisioning Bryant at the 3, with three other spots being filled by Russell, Randle, and Clarkson, with a FA at the 5.
   2785. theboyqueen Posted: June 29, 2015 at 06:00 PM (#4988609)
Bryant at the 3, with three other spots being filled by Russell, Randle, and Clarkson, with a FA at the 5.


This configuration screams for a stretch 5. Kobe should be planted in the post, along with with Randle.

Whichever of Deandre/Chandler that doesn't end up on the Mavs playing pick and roll with the guards could also work. I actually think that makes more sense than LMA both from an offensive and a defensive standpoint. LMA doing his thing seems like it would create spacing problems.
   2786. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 29, 2015 at 06:08 PM (#4988613)
This configuration screams for a stretch 5.
I'm not sure it screams for anything but development time. The Lakers need to see if Russell can play, if Randle can play, if Clarkson can play. If they can, then the Lakers can start thinking of what to put around them. If not, they need to see about finding other foundational players. 2015-16 is not a season to be thinking about being competitive, it's about rebuilding and about saying a grateful farewell to Kobe Bryant('s salary), whether he wants it or not.

(I wouldn't mind seeing KB back after this season, but only at a reasonable price tag. Hard to see him agreeing to a number that I would consider reasonable.)
   2787. smileyy Posted: June 29, 2015 at 06:18 PM (#4988620)
I think Kobe could be great in a reserved veteran's presence role. I think he's capable. The Lakers, during his elder years, have never been in a position where that position makes sense.
   2788. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 29, 2015 at 06:22 PM (#4988623)
So would I. Personally, I'd love it if he stayed on, but again, it's hard for me to see him gracefully reconciling his diminishing skills with his... well, Kobe-ness. I have no doubt he can still going to be a good, skilled, dangerous player, but he's not going to be an effective one playing 35 minutes a game.
   2789. Squash Posted: June 29, 2015 at 07:18 PM (#4988638)
Kupchak has already stated publicly that he thinks this is Bryant's last year, and Jeanie Buss has stated publicly that this year will be a "Kobe Celebration"--IOW, a Long Goodbye (if he can stay on the floor, which he has not been able to do in three years). Bryant himself is non-committal, as one would expect.

Most likely it's Kobe's last year with the Lakers regardless. I do wonder what happens though if he has a decent year and decides he wants to come back. Or has a bad year and decides he doesn't want to go out like that. Jordan went to Washington, Ewing went to Orlando/Seattle, Olajuwon went to Toronto, etc.

Looking up Ewing's stats, he had a strange run in the middle of his career where he decided he was a three point shooter. He shot 14 in 93-94, 21 in 94-95, and 28 in 95-96 (and 7 in 92-93 - apparently multiples of 7 were his favorite numbers). That was a lot of 3s back in the day for a big guy, especially a massive lumbering type like Ewing.

Going in even further, Ewing's draft class (1985) was pretty outstanding - all-time greats including Ewing, Malone, Dumars, Mullin, all-time very goods like Terry Porter, Detlef Schrempf, Charles Oakley, Arvydas Sabonis (an all-time int'l great), good pieces like Spud Webb, Mario Elie, and AC Green, and oddities like Xavier McDaniel, Manute Bol, Hot Rod Williams (owner of one of the first WTF? contracts), and the immortal Benoit Benjamin. That's quite an 80s/90s bunch.
   2790. theboyqueen Posted: June 29, 2015 at 07:25 PM (#4988642)
Three of the four worst guys in the league by RPM last year were Derrick Williams, Anthony Bennett, and Jason Smith (Zach Lavine basically lapped the field as the worst). Unfortunately, as passive power forwards who shoot too much and can't defend any position, those guys to me represent the downside of Porzingis, and of course two of them were drafted even higher than he was.

If he gets a lot of minutes next year, there is the potential of him being truly terrible (not saying he won't eventually be decent, but if he is anything other than bad next year I will be surprised). How much of that is the NYK fanbase/mediocracy going to take before making him the symbol of all that is wrong in the world? The more I think about it, the more I think he's a terrible fit for that team particularly.
   2791. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: June 29, 2015 at 07:33 PM (#4988649)
RIP Jackson Vroman.
   2792. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: June 29, 2015 at 07:36 PM (#4988655)
wisconsin head coach bo ryan to retire after the next season

   2793. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Fred Posted: June 29, 2015 at 07:44 PM (#4988660)
Wasn't there some talk a while back of Kobe going to Europe at the end of his career? Or was that based on nothing more than his childhood?
   2794. John Shade has yet to hear the Squeak Posted: June 29, 2015 at 07:48 PM (#4988661)
Warriors picked up Mo Speights' option. Seems like a no brainer, but also an indication that Lacob really is willing to pay significant tax this year.
   2795. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 29, 2015 at 08:04 PM (#4988670)
Wasn't there some talk a while back of Kobe going to Europe at the end of his career? Or was that based on nothing more than his childhood?
He went back there a few years ago, and did some interviews talking about how he wanted to own an Italian league team when he retired, and last year there were some noises about him potentially buying an Italian soccer team. [SNIP]

Edit: Apparently, the owner of the Montreal MLS team bought the team Bryant was angling for.
   2796. tshipman Posted: June 29, 2015 at 08:36 PM (#4988685)
Looking up Ewing's stats, he had a strange run in the middle of his career where he decided he was a three point shooter. He shot 14 in 93-94, 21 in 94-95, and 28 in 95-96 (and 7 in 92-93 - apparently multiples of 7 were his favorite numbers). That was a lot of 3s back in the day for a big guy, especially a massive lumbering type like Ewing.


Didn't they move the 3p line in for a couple seasons around then?
   2797. theboyqueen Posted: June 29, 2015 at 08:42 PM (#4988687)
Warriors picked up Mo Speights' option. Seems like a no brainer, but also an indication that Lacob really is willing to pay significant tax this year.


I don't know why they did this unless they are truly sold on some sort of chemistry thing. They would be more than fine without Speights, just throw McAdoo or whatever out there.

Speights is one of my least favorite players -- all of the worst offensive and defensive traits somehow combined into one guy. I predict he ends a career someday with his defensive flopping.
   2798. Red Voodooin Posted: June 29, 2015 at 08:48 PM (#4988690)
Looking up Ewing's stats, he had a strange run in the middle of his career where he decided he was a three point shooter. He shot 14 in 93-94, 21 in 94-95, and 28 in 95-96 (and 7 in 92-93 - apparently multiples of 7 were his favorite numbers). That was a lot of 3s back in the day for a big guy, especially a massive lumbering type like Ewing.


I remember this. If memory serves, they were almost always top of the key threes, off some odd screen and roll variation ...
   2799. billyshears Posted: June 29, 2015 at 09:01 PM (#4988694)
Looking up Ewing's stats, he had a strange run in the middle of his career where he decided he was a three point shooter. He shot 14 in 93-94, 21 in 94-95, and 28 in 95-96 (and 7 in 92-93 - apparently multiples of 7 were his favorite numbers). That was a lot of 3s back in the day for a big guy, especially a massive lumbering type like Ewing.


Ewing had an excellent mid-range shot for some time. He obviously wasn't a 3-point shooter, but it wasn't absurd as it might at first seem. Usually these shots occurred at the end of the shot clock or when he founded himself with the ball out past the 3-point line completely unguarded.
   2800. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 29, 2015 at 09:34 PM (#4988708)
Kobe in Europe in 2016-17 also crossed my mind. He was IIRC set to play in China during the lockout before things fell through.

If I could get decent odds, I'd bet on this. Jordan's story notwithstanding, I don't see what's in it for Kobe to have a late-career ministop, I can't see a contender wanting to pay him real money, he has no real reason to ring chase (has many, don't see him wanting to play a small role on a team just to tie MJ, etc). He'd probably make more money in Europe (with the increasing salary cap being maybe why not), and even if he made less could easily spin it as Global Ambassador.

That's what I would do if I were Kobe, would be a legacy all his own, that seems to make sense. Plus he could still school guys like Hezonja (hotshot nba prospects) which I think he'd very much enjoy.

If he stays in the US, I think it would be hilarious and entirely in play for the Kings to sign him.
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