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Monday, June 01, 2015

OT: Monthly NBA Thread - June 2015

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, but with our own thread, we won’t detract from what this site is really about: trusting the Red Sox process.

The District Attorney Posted: June 01, 2015 at 11:11 AM | 3045 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   2801. vagab0nd kills for candy Posted: June 29, 2015 at 09:36 PM (#4988709)
flip
   2802. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: June 29, 2015 at 10:03 PM (#4988726)
Didn't they move the 3p line in for a couple seasons around then?

That's exactly what happened. I remember wondering if he might become a three-point threat, since he could knock down long twos. He did take a few more, but the shortened distance was still a bit out of his range.
   2803. theboyqueen Posted: June 29, 2015 at 10:07 PM (#4988730)
If he stays in the US, I think it would be hilarious and entirely in play for the Kings to sign him.


If the options are Barcelona versus Sacramento, I doubt that very much. Sacramento would never, ever affiliate with Kobe anyway unless he wants to join Shaq in the ownership group.

I would love to see Kobe playing in the Spanish league deep into his 40s. It would be kind of a David Beckham move.
   2804. tshipman Posted: June 29, 2015 at 10:35 PM (#4988743)
We haven't really talked about this that much in the thread:

Ramona Shelburne
‏@ramonashelburne
Dwyane Wade will not pick up his player option for next year & instead become a free agent, source tells ESPN


There's some serious bad blood between Wade and Riley at this point. Wade feels like he gave a discount 5 years ago and now wants to be given the max. Riley's position is that he's not worth the max anymore and thanks for saving us that money, but tough luck, kid.

Wade in Cleveland would be absolutely freaking hilarious.
   2805. i hear there are a lot of dead animals in 57i66135 Posted: June 29, 2015 at 10:52 PM (#4988749)
Wade in Cleveland would be absolutely freaking hilarious.
spite is a powerful motivator, but i doubt it's enough to get someone to willingly move to cleveland.

   2806. stevegamer Posted: June 29, 2015 at 11:04 PM (#4988756)
Wade in Cleveland is quite possible, but requires a huge discount. I think his big money destinations are limited.

   2807. tshipman Posted: June 29, 2015 at 11:11 PM (#4988761)
Wade in Cleveland is quite possible, but requires a huge discount. I think his big money destinations are limited.


One line of speculation:
LeBron and Love both opted out. They could all take a paycut again, do the Miami Waltz, to get everyone to fit.
   2808. Tin Angel Posted: June 29, 2015 at 11:13 PM (#4988763)
STEAGLES slams it home with authority!
   2809. jmurph Posted: June 29, 2015 at 11:18 PM (#4988766)
Wade might be in a rapid free fall, right? Granted, he started at a higher place than most, so still might have another good year or two in him. But for what, 60 games a year, including the playoffs? If Riley is as cold-blooded as he is made out to be, he's offering either one year or 2 years at a greatly reduced price.

On the flip side, I thought I read that if he walks, given their cap situation, they basically can't even replace him? Or was that Deng?
   2810. Fourth True Outcome Posted: June 29, 2015 at 11:56 PM (#4988780)
LaMarcus Aldridge is going to be meeting with the Lakers, Rockets, Spurs, Mavericks, Suns, Raptors, and Knicks Wednesday and Thursday (link) He's apparently not meeting with the Blazers because they've already made their pitch and offer.

Beyond speculation of where he's going to end up (I'm guessing San Antonio or Portland, but LMA is a guy who holds his cards close to his vest, so who knows), how good do you guys think he is? I've watched a lot of him here in Portland over the last few years, and I can't totally decide. He's an elite midrange shooter, very good rebounder, and good individual defender, but not a great help defender or passer. I struggle with deciding how much value he brings. It'll be interesting to see how much of an impact he has on his new team if he ends up leaving Portland.

   2811. theboyqueen Posted: June 30, 2015 at 01:10 AM (#4988786)
I think LMA could take over the Duncan role fairly seamlessly. I'm surprised he's actually younger than Paul Millsap.

I think Wade to Cleveland makes perfect sense from a basketball standpoint but I don't think it will happen. Does Lebron really want to be seen as a guy who could never win a title without Dwyane Wade?
   2812. theboyqueen Posted: June 30, 2015 at 01:12 AM (#4988787)
How is it the Rockets and Mavs always seem to be in a position to sign big money free agents?

I really want the Kings to go after Monta Ellis.
   2813. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 30, 2015 at 06:03 AM (#4988805)
If the options are Barcelona versus Sacramento, I doubt that very much. Sacramento would never, ever affiliate with Kobe anyway unless he wants to join Shaq in the ownership group.


You can't see Vivek wanting to make a splash and throwing a lot more money at Kobe than anyone else does, partly for splash reasons and partly for misguided player evaluation?

Here's a quote from Vlade on Kobe (albeit likely prompted / say something nice, Vlade):

It was a lovely story that I finished my career with Kobe, with somebody who I was traded for. I have a lot of respect for the guy. I think he’s definitely, by far, the best talent that I ever, ever played with. (It’s) obviously very close with Magic (Johnson) and Chris Webber, Glen Rice and Peja Stojakovic — it’s unbelievable experience for me to have a teammate like that next to me.


I'm not saying it will happen, but given that we don't really know who's calling the shots in Sacramento and I don't think it's the fans...
   2814. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 30, 2015 at 08:14 AM (#4988820)
Antic is going back to Europe apparently (Fenerbahce).
   2815. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 30, 2015 at 08:25 AM (#4988825)
I hate Dwayne Wade. I mean, I really abhor Dwayne Wade. So naturally, he'll certainly go to Cleveland where all of the worst people live. But if he doesn't, wouldn't Dwayne Wade's horrific ugly detestable morally cretinous ass fit really well as a fifth/sixth man in Atlanta?
   2816. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 30, 2015 at 08:26 AM (#4988826)
Antic is going back to Europe apparently (Fenerbahce).


Saw that yesterday. To repeat my response, "PerNOOOOOOO!!!" Actually, it was clear he was out due to money and fit. I think Muscala takes his rotation spot and big guy from Spain I forget his name takes Moose's spot at the end of the bench.
   2817. spivey Posted: June 30, 2015 at 08:56 AM (#4988839)
Wade is still one of the best players in the NBA when he's on the floor. At least he was last year.

Trouble is how much he's on the floor is a real concern.
   2818. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: June 30, 2015 at 09:18 AM (#4988848)
Trouble is how much he's on the floor is a real concern.


Right. He's now in the "aging veteran needs a breather more often than not but when he's fresh legged still a force to be reckoned with" Kobe stage. Or maybe Kobe's in the Wade stage. Which is why he'd be a perfect creator/scorer in the sixth man role in Atlanta, bringing a capacity they lacked last year as Korver/Carroll backup. Or he could start and Carroll could come in. Whatev. It would work, from a strategic perspective. Not sure Wade would do it, of course.
   2819. Rally Posted: June 30, 2015 at 09:22 AM (#4988853)
Wade is still one of the best players in the NBA when he's on the floor. At least he was last year.


I think that assessment is about 2 years old. Last year Wade shot .489 from 2 - not bad, but way down from .557 the year before. He had been over 50% for 6 straight years. He can't shoot a 3. He's still getting to the line at a decent rate (6.8 per 36) but it's way down from his peak. Turnovers were up. He doesn't really play defense anymore.

His WS/48 was below average at .086 (trend 227-192-149-086) while his on/off was decent at +2.0. Heat were 28-34 when he played, 9-11 when he didn't. All together, that looks like an average player, albeit a high-usage average player. He probably could improve his efficiency playing limited minutes while not being the focal point of the offense. Like, if he were playing with Lebron again. But doesn't it make more sense to fill that role with a real shooter? Doing that and creating space gives Lebron better chances to take it to the hoop.

You've got a 34 year old player with a lot of miles on the knees, hasn't been healthy for a full season in 5 years. He's average now. Your best hope is that he stays average. There's a pretty good chance he doesn't. Wouldn't surprise me if the next 2 years out of Wade are no more productive than the last 2 from Kobe.

*And this is coming from one of the few on the planet who will admit to liking Wade.
   2820. Norcan Posted: June 30, 2015 at 09:25 AM (#4988856)
I've watched a lot of him here in Portland over the last few years, and I can't totally decide. He's an elite midrange shooter, very good rebounder, and good individual defender, but not a great help defender or passer. I


I think he's a very good mid-range shooter, possibly elite too but the stats do not bear that out. From 16-23 feet, he's at 42% for his career, was 41.5% last season and his career best is 44%. From 10-16, those respective numbers go
41/39.2/44.3. KG is 45.4% from 16-23 for his career and 46.1% from 10-16. Dirk is 47.7 and 47.2.

Aldridge's propensity to take extremely long turnaround jumpers--he by far takes the longest in the league--might explain why his percentages aren't as impressive as perhaps expected. I would think his spot up percentage from mid-range is pretty impressive. Dirk too also takes a lot of difficult, in the post mid-range jumpers but that just goes to show how he's a level or more above Aldridge as a shooter.

He was absolutely horrible in the playoffs against Memphis but I would give him the benefit of the doubt since he was playing with a torn ligament in his thumb. Even so, it did expose his inability to impact the game in other ways besides scoring and rebounding. I'm not sure he's good enough to turn a team like say Toronto into a contender but I'm pretty sure he'll be fantastic in San Antonio because seemingly every player plays fantastic there.
   2821. i hear there are a lot of dead animals in 57i66135 Posted: June 30, 2015 at 09:28 AM (#4988860)
do the knicks have enough cap room to sign wade and lamarcus aldridge? throw years at wade (4/70) and then use him and melo to pull in aldridge. that takes pressure off porzingis and it would give them players who might actually be able to run the triangle. sign a rim protector like brandon wright or biyombo with a cap exception and that team would be a fun combination of ugly to watch, annoying to root for and not good enough to actually compete for anything more than a division title.
   2822. theboyqueen Posted: June 30, 2015 at 09:29 AM (#4988861)
You can't see Vivek wanting to make a splash and throwing a lot more money at Kobe than anyone else does, partly for splash reasons and partly for misguided player evaluation?


I have an easier time imagining him retiring on the A's, honestly.
   2823. jmurph Posted: June 30, 2015 at 10:11 AM (#4988895)
do the knicks have enough cap room to sign wade and lamarcus aldridge? throw years at wade (4/70)


As entertaining as NJ's reaction would be to this, I can't imagine Phil is that dumb. Wade on 4/70 combined with Melo's deal just murders the Knicks.
   2824. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: June 30, 2015 at 10:41 AM (#4988911)
One line of speculation:
LeBron and Love both opted out. They could all take a paycut again, do the Miami Waltz, to get everyone to fit.

In a world where the Cavs renounced rights to every free agent, and Mike Miller decided he didn't like free money, those three could split about 34 million to play with Irving, Mozgov, Varejao and Harris. In the real world, where contracts and cap holds for everybody the Cavs presumably plan¹ to bring back total about 100 million, Wade's path to Cleveland involves playing for basically no money...to spite Miami for not offering him enough.

¹ Have to, really, given their cap situation leaves them no avenue to adequately replace Thompson, Shumpert or Smith.
   2825. i hear there are a lot of dead animals in 57i66135 Posted: June 30, 2015 at 10:53 AM (#4988918)
In a world where the Cavs renounced rights to every free agent, and Mike Miller decided he didn't like free money, those three could split about 34 million to play with Irving, Mozgov, Varejao and Harris. In the real world, where contracts and cap holds for everybody the Cavs presumably plan¹ to bring back total about 100 million, Wade's path to Cleveland involves playing for basically no money...to spite Miami for not offering him enough.

¹ Have to, really, given their cap situation leaves them no avenue to adequately replace Thompson, Shumpert or Smith.
they can use varejao's salary to facilitate a sign and trade for wade. that lets them sign love and lebron using their bird rights and probably thompson, shumpert and smith, too. and they'd have the MLE.

that makes a shitty situation for love even shittier, but maybe the guy's actually a high functioning idiot with masochistic tendencies, in which case, "extended warranty? how can i lose?"
   2826. JC in DC Posted: June 30, 2015 at 11:03 AM (#4988923)
Listening to Riley yesterday I got no sense of bad blood from him (or from Wade). Riley seems to get that this is Wade's last payout and last opportunity to position himself for another title, if he can find some ideal situation. If not, he stays (which I totally anticipate). Is there some evidence of the bad blood or is merely the fact he opted out?
   2827. jmurph Posted: June 30, 2015 at 12:04 PM (#4988991)
I think you're mostly kidding but there is no scenario in which Riley is taking back the $19 million (!!!!!!!) guaranteed to Varejao to facilitate Wade joining Lebron somewhere else.
   2828. Tin Angel Posted: June 30, 2015 at 12:05 PM (#4988993)
Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA
Yahoo Sources: Sacramento probing Kentucky's John Calipari about interest in running front office and coaching.


Zach Lowe ‏@ZachLowe_NBA
"Would you like to stop being a god at Kentucky and come be our 4th coach in 7 months? Maybe play some 4-on-5?"
   2829. jmurph Posted: June 30, 2015 at 12:10 PM (#4989000)
Caught a bit of SportsCenter earlier and Haberstroh was saying that with a maxed out Dragic and a max or near max Wade, Miami would be paying about $150 million this year, tax included. And I just can't stop wondering why they would be willing to do that to assemble a team that could only get out of the East if Lebron got injured AND the Wizards regress significantly AND Chicago regresses significantly AND maybe even Atlanta or Toronto regresses significantly. Every team needs some breaks to make a run, but they would need more than most, I think. And that's only external. They would also be counting on Bosh returning with no complications and Wade somehow being healthy for the first time in a while, Deng somehow returning to fitness, etc. How is this worth it for Arison?
   2830. JJ1986 Posted: June 30, 2015 at 12:12 PM (#4989003)
How does Haywood's contract work? Could he be used as the main piece in a Wade S&T?
   2831. jmurph Posted: June 30, 2015 at 12:22 PM (#4989013)
How does Haywood's contract work? Could he be used as the main piece in a Wade S&T?


Looks like $10.5 million, fully waivable? So still nowhere near enough. I'm out of my element but with two teams in the tax, wouldn't a deal have to be even money?
   2832. JC in DC Posted: June 30, 2015 at 12:25 PM (#4989016)
Calipari is tweeting denials of the rumors. He's going nowhere, says he.
   2833. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: June 30, 2015 at 12:36 PM (#4989026)
I'm not sure why NBA teams think Calipari's skill set will translate to the NBA.
   2834. JC in DC Posted: June 30, 2015 at 12:39 PM (#4989031)
I love it when pro sports teams think the way to win is combining college coaches with their old players (see, e.g., Skins and Spurrier, Knicks/Celts and Pitino, and now the notion of Calipari and WCS and Cousins).
   2835. theboyqueen Posted: June 30, 2015 at 12:47 PM (#4989038)
Sacramento probing Kentucky's John Calipari about interest in running front office and coaching.


I feel like I started this rumor. Sorry, world.

Lots of noise locally about going after Eric Bledsoe. I have no idea what the Kings have that could facilitate this.
   2836. theboyqueen Posted: June 30, 2015 at 12:52 PM (#4989043)
The hope with a guy like Calipari in a miserable market like Sacramento is that he brings enough gravitas that good players want to play here. He's getting all these kids to Lexington, somehow. I have no illusions that he is much of an in-game coach, but now that the rules are a bit more unified I think college coaches are seeing more success in the NBA than they used to.

I don't think I would let him be GM/coach though. One or the other.
   2837. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: June 30, 2015 at 12:57 PM (#4989052)
I'm out of my element but with two teams in the tax, wouldn't a deal have to be even money?

Not exactly, but under the CBA a Cleveland sign-and-trade for Wade is incompatible with the Cavs re-signing LeBron, Love, and Tristan Thompson to market contracts.

The basic trade rules dictate that taxpaying teams can receive players earning 125% plus $100K of their outgoing salary. Therefore, since Haywood's outgoing salary is $10.52M, the Cavs theoretically could get back $13.25M in trade. Wade might be willing to sign a 1-yr, $13.25M contract in Cleveland, so that part works.

However, any team that receives a signed-and-traded player becomes hard-capped at the apron $4M above the luxury tax. With the tax projected around $82M, the apron should be roughly $86M. The Cavs have $31M committed to 4 players, plus something like $23M for LeBron, $19M for Love, and $12-$15M for Thompson if they keep them all, i.e. $85M+ for 7 players. There's essentially no way the Cavs could stay below the apron and thus be permitted to acquire Wade by sign-and-trade barring some cap shenanigans like LeBron playing for the minimum, unless Love goes elsewhere. Even losing Thompson couldn't realistically get them there without a pay cut for LeBron or Love since they'd still need to fill out the rest of the roster.

Of course, this ignores the implausibility of the Heat agreeing to send Wade to the Cavs for nothing but a non-guaranteed contract. If Wade wants to play in Cleveland next year, he'd have to sign for the MMLE.
   2838. CFBF's Overflowing Pathos Posted: June 30, 2015 at 01:00 PM (#4989057)
Luke Ridnour has had an eventful off-season.
   2839. aberg Posted: June 30, 2015 at 01:08 PM (#4989062)
Dandy- As I read that, I'm thinking "yeah, of course, who doesn't know about the tax apron and the MMLE?" and realizing what lunatics we all are.
   2840. . Posted: June 30, 2015 at 01:12 PM (#4989063)
LOL at thinking John Calipari, snake oil salesman, for George Karl, proven NBA winner, is an upgrade.
   2841. Mark S. is bored Posted: June 30, 2015 at 01:13 PM (#4989066)

I'm not sure why NBA teams think Calipari's skill set will translate to the NBA.


The Kings have a superstar in the making with Cousins and a coach who's trying his best to piss everyone off. How much could Calipari hurt this situation?
   2842. theboyqueen Posted: June 30, 2015 at 01:15 PM (#4989067)
The bigger story in the Calipari saga is Calipari admitting he has been talking to Ranadive about Boogie Cousins and WCS. Supposedly Ranadive had no input into the draft process (nor any potential personnel moves), so what the hell is he doing talking to Calipari about these things? Ranadive needs to shut up and disappear; the guy really seems like a weird megalomaniac.
   2843. Famous Original Joe C Posted: June 30, 2015 at 01:44 PM (#4989096)
Supposedly Ranadive had no input into the draft process (nor any potential personnel moves)


Stauskas? Stauskas?

NICK ROCKS!
   2844. theboyqueen Posted: June 30, 2015 at 02:08 PM (#4989118)
I'm talking about this year. Obviously he was in complete charge last year, with the aforementioned result.
   2845. i hear there are a lot of dead animals in 57i66135 Posted: June 30, 2015 at 02:34 PM (#4989134)

Stauskas? Stauskas?

NICK ROCKS!
after one season, you can't say that sauce castillo was an obviously worse pick than vonleh or mcdermott would have been.
Zach Lowe ‏@ZachLowe_NBA
"Would you like to stop being a god at Kentucky and come be our 4th coach in 7 months? Maybe play some 4-on-5?"

there's at least one obvious reason why validation would leave kentucky for sacramento. it rhymes with 'MDMA innovations'.

   2846. theboyqueen Posted: June 30, 2015 at 02:45 PM (#4989140)
after one season, you can't say that sauce castillo was an obviously worse pick than vonleh or mcdermott would have been.


I think those are clearly worse picks. The alternative was Elfrid Payton. Payton is a far better player right now but obviously can't shoot, so it's too early to make much of a conclusion about this. That said, if Stauskas has trade value I have no problem shipping him off for something useful.
   2847. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: June 30, 2015 at 03:58 PM (#4989169)
Bulls officially offer Butler the max QO. Thus, like I said yesterday:

Mark Deeks ‏@MarkDeeksNBA 2h2 hours ago
Jimmy Butler now has 4 options. 1) Accept max QO: 5 years, max salary, no options. 2) Accept 1 year QO: 1 year, $4.5 million, UFA next year.

Mark Deeks ‏@MarkDeeksNBA 2h2 hours ago
3) Sign offer sheet with someone; at least 3 years, not including opt years. Will get matched. 4) Sign other deal with CHI: can be anything.


Bulls don't really have an incentive for #4, Jimmy's leverage is in taking #2, so if Jimmy wants to maximize earnings and Bulls refuse to give PO after 2 years #3 is most likely. I'm hoping for for #1.
   2848. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 30, 2015 at 03:59 PM (#4989170)
and realizing what lunatics we all are.

Lunatics are the best kind of tics.
   2849. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: June 30, 2015 at 04:41 PM (#4989190)
now that the rules are a bit more unified I think college coaches are seeing more success in the NBA than they used to.


I mean, the recent list of coaches to successfully make the college => NBA transition is Brad Stevens. I'd at least hold off until Hoiberg does well before calling it a trend.
   2850. theboyqueen Posted: June 30, 2015 at 04:50 PM (#4989194)
Good point.
   2851. GregD Posted: June 30, 2015 at 05:01 PM (#4989203)
I think Calipari remains viable for the NBA because

1) he is a headline hire and would get at first good PR. This is a dumb reason but one teams seem to care about

2) he is truly popular and seemingly respected among NBA players. It is hard to know how much this would survive contact with a losing season but if a big part of a coach's job is to figure out how to keep the star both happy and improving, Cal has been able to do that though usually just for one year.

3) while he doesn't have a great rep as a genius his teams have generally been tremendous defensively--though not the Wall/Cousins team. Talent is a part of it but isn't all of it. And his guys generally play super hard.

I also think Calipari has become good at listening to his coaches and keeps smart guys on the bench.

I am not saying I would hire him for ten million. I tend to think coaches are often fungible. But I can see why he gets buzz
   2852. theboyqueen Posted: June 30, 2015 at 05:11 PM (#4989207)
I am not saying I would hire him for ten million. I tend to think coaches are often fungible. But I can see why he gets buzz


Seems to me, at least in the NBA, coaches are anything but fungible. That 10 million spent on a coach is money especially well spent since it has no cap implications. Is it better to spend 10 million on Monta Ellis? Somehow I doubt it.

Some of this is confirmation bias but the last "mediocre" coach to win a championship is who -- KC Jones?
   2853. JC in DC Posted: June 30, 2015 at 05:21 PM (#4989215)
I take your point, Greg D, and Calipari a second time around could work. I just am suspicious when the plan is bring the college guy in to coach his own guys. Now, granted, his guys are top picks and not Danny Wuerffel, but I have too many nightmares starring Rick Pitino and Walter McCarty to ignore this approach.
   2854. Famous Original Joe C Posted: June 30, 2015 at 05:31 PM (#4989224)
Stauskas? Stauskas?

NICK ROCKS!
after one season, you can't say that sauce castillo was an obviously worse pick than vonleh or mcdermott would have bee


Sure - not making fun of the pick as much as making fun of the goofy-ass owner who let his goofy-ass draft night "war room" be recorded for some reason.
   2855. rr Posted: June 30, 2015 at 05:36 PM (#4989226)
I think the only reason to hire Calipari would be if you thought he could recruit FAs with the same skill that he recruits HS guys. Also, I think Calipari would be making a mistake if he bailed on UK for the NBA.
   2856. . Posted: June 30, 2015 at 06:00 PM (#4989238)
When Calipari was actually an NBA coach, he was not admired and respected by his players -- he was mocked and ridiculed. His initial stint was nowhere near as successful as Pitino's and nothing in the decade or so between stints really helped Pitino the second time around. Plus Pitino is actually a competent game manager, at both the college and pro levels, and Calipari isn't.
   2857. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: June 30, 2015 at 06:03 PM (#4989241)
I mean, the recent list of coaches to successfully make the college => NBA transition is Brad Stevens.


It's also great that Brad Stevens was able to go 40-42 with little talent and his future looks bright (I'd bet on him), but worth noting that he hasn't managed more than getting swept in the first round just yet. Who knows how successful he will be with stars with egos, in the crucible of a 7 game playoff series, etc.. 1 year below .500 seems like not enough evidence of anything.

Some of this is confirmation bias but the last "mediocre" coach to win a championship is who -- KC Jones?


Yeah, confirmation bias plays a big part here. Doc Rivers was a retread who nobody thought very highly of before he won a championship.

I don't feel like there have been that many unsuccessful college -> NBA immediate head coach transitions recently period (most recent hires have been assistants most recently, of course several of these guys coached college somewhere at some point), so the jury feels pretty out. Tim Floyd hasn't coached in the NBA in 11 years, those jokes are kinda dated.

I highly doubt Cal is leaving, he gets a ton of salary, a cushy travel schedule, all the love and fame he wants, his vehement denials will look crazy in retrospect, etc.. Fun to chat about, not happening.
   2858. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 30, 2015 at 06:19 PM (#4989260)
Scottie Pippen: 'I was LeBron James before LeBron James'

I don't think he's wrong. Pippen is a poor man's Lebron, but that's still a pretty good guy to have.
   2859. theboyqueen Posted: June 30, 2015 at 06:29 PM (#4989266)
Pippen invented the "point-forward" position and Lebron perfected it. Don't know who else is even in the conversation, so to that extent Pippen is making sense here. Also, having the greatest player in history retire on you and still leading that 1993 team to 55 wins is a pretty Lebron-esque achievement.

Beyond that though, their actual games seem quite different.
   2860. Mark S. is bored Posted: June 30, 2015 at 06:30 PM (#4989268)
Luke Ridnour traded for fourth time this offseason, sent to Raptors


Will Ridnour have been on the roster of all 30 teams by the time the season starts?
   2861. Norcan Posted: June 30, 2015 at 06:30 PM (#4989269)
When Calipari was actually an NBA coach, he was not admired and respected by his players -- he was mocked and ridiculed.


Yeah, I don't know too many details of his Nets coaching tenure but I'm pretty sure wearing out his welcome was one of the reasons he got canned in his third season even though it was impressive the Nets went from 26 wins to 43 wins and a playoff berth in his second season. He's a big time screamer on the sidelines at Kentucky, although he's really toned it down the past few seasons after crescendoing to the edge of berserkness a few seasons ago (so many air punches and getting right up into players' faces and screaming his head off), so it's not hard to see why professionals got tired of his act pretty quickly. It's really quite remarkable that a coaching tyrant has one of the slickest images in college basketball.

I have a soft spot for him from his Umass days and think he's a solid coach, not just a master recruiter but I don't think his hire is going to mean a ton of positive PR. Maybe a lot of positive digital ink spilled from Woj though, because Calipari is represented by a powerful agency and Woj is all about shilling for agents to get info.
   2862. Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield Posted: June 30, 2015 at 06:42 PM (#4989275)
Scottie Pippen: 'I was LeBron James before LeBron James'

That's always going to be the pull, quote but:

“They want to compare him to the greatest whether it be Michael Jordan or Magic Johnson, but he's more closer to myself,” Pippen said. “It's natural for folks to say that, but if you look at how he plays the game and how I played the game, you'll see more similarities with us.”


I think I agree with this, Pip is a better comp than MJ or Magic. And as much as I love Pip, LBJ is probably better at everything than Pip - some, more than others.
   2863. theboyqueen Posted: June 30, 2015 at 06:45 PM (#4989281)
LBJ is not better at perimeter/wing defense than Pippen, because really nobody is (except maybe Jordan).

But Lebron's total game is not wholly comparable to anybody. There are bits and pieces of all kinds of guys, the aforementioned included.
   2864. TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm Posted: June 30, 2015 at 07:01 PM (#4989291)
Pippen invented the "point-forward" position and Lebron perfected it.

Paul Pressey?
   2865. Tin Angel Posted: June 30, 2015 at 07:16 PM (#4989299)
Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA
Around the league, executives believe the Lakers are pursuing space to offer free agent deals to LaMarcus Aldridge and DeAndre Jordan.


Wouldn't they have to essentially gut their entire team (except for Kobe) to make this possible?
   2866. theboyqueen Posted: June 30, 2015 at 07:53 PM (#4989325)
Paul Pressey?


Good call.

It's really amazing how much the modern game owes to Don Nelson.
   2867. Thok Posted: June 30, 2015 at 07:59 PM (#4989329)
I see that OKC has finally executed the salary dump for a foreign stash-away trade I was thinking of during the mock draft.

I'm pretty sure they've got another such trade in them. It's not like they want to pay Perry Jones.
   2868. smileyy Posted: June 30, 2015 at 07:59 PM (#4989330)
MDMA innovations


Validation*, fully aware that he'll fail in the NBA and be fired after/within one season by his batshit owner, spends the entire season *($#ed out of his mind on a brand new undetectable ecstasy variant?

*Calipari, for the uninitiated
   2869. Norcan Posted: June 30, 2015 at 07:59 PM (#4989331)
I can't see Aldridge going to the Lakers, not at this point of his career. Maybe if he was younger, 26 or so, then hitching his future to a team of talented, although, unproven young players and a franchise with a history of being able to draw big time free agents might make sense but not at his age. I think the Rockets make the most sense. None of the other teams can offer the potential to team up with two elite teammates who are young enough to maintain their elite production for the length of his contract. The Spurs also make sense because they should have Kawhi signed for a long time and have the best front office in the game. Being able to play a year or so with Duncan and the other Spurs legends and legitimately contend for a championship isn't insignificant either.

I wouldn't mind him signing with the Knicks along with Wade. They would have so much talent--still--but also so many questions about how the players will fit.

If he signs with Toronto, does that mean he really doesn't like his extended family in Texas?
   2870. smileyy Posted: June 30, 2015 at 08:01 PM (#4989333)
Seems to me, at least in the NBA, coaches are anything but fungible.


Sub-median coaches are fungible.
   2871. . Posted: June 30, 2015 at 08:11 PM (#4989338)
If Jordan wants a bigger role, and he sure seems to, why would he go to the Lakers with LMA and Kobe (and Russell and Randle, for that matter)?
   2872. Norcan Posted: June 30, 2015 at 08:20 PM (#4989341)
If Jordan wants a bigger role, he should sign with the Knicks. Guys like Cole Aldrich, Lou Amundson, Quincy Acy and so on were getting fed in the post because the Triangle offense called for that sort of thing, as if Knicks fans were suffering enough. Jordan will reach a career high in back to the basket touches after ten games.
   2873. rr Posted: June 30, 2015 at 08:35 PM (#4989364)
2865. Into the Void Posted: June 30, 2015 at 07:16 PM (#4989299)
Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA
Around the league, executives believe the Lakers are pursuing space to offer free agent deals to LaMarcus Aldridge and DeAndre Jordan.


Wouldn't they have to essentially gut their entire team (except for Kobe) to make this possible?


There is not much of a team to gut; they already said that they are not re-upping Hill. Sacre, Kelly, Randle and some cap holds are on the books. And I think Sacre's deal is not guaranteed.

So, all they had to do if they wanted to try something like this now was to give Kobe and Young one-year deals last summer, or, preferably, not re-sign Young at all. But they didn't, so if there is actually any chance that Aldridge and Jordan would want to do this, it isn't going to happen barring some really weird stuff going down.
   2874. theboyqueen Posted: June 30, 2015 at 08:45 PM (#4989380)
If Jordan wants a bigger role, he should sign with the Knicks. Guys like Cole Aldrich, Lou Amundson, Quincy Acy and so on were getting fed in the post because the Triangle offense called for that sort of thing, as if Knicks fans were suffering enough. Jordan will reach a career high in back to the basket touches after ten games.


Jordan's offensive game, which is already tremendous, is based on pick and rolls and alley-oops. Jordan getting a bunch of back to the basket touches sounds like a potentially comical way to neuter his strengths.

If he really wants a bigger role he should sign with the Warriors for $5 and play pick and roll with Steph Curry all day. Or...stay with the Clippers and play with Chris Paul and Blake Griffin because there actually is no better role for him.

On a more realistic front there is noise about the Warriors signing Belinelli, which seems almost unfair.
   2875. JC in DC Posted: June 30, 2015 at 09:07 PM (#4989411)
Aside from whether Aldridge wants to go to LA, if I'm LA, I'm not sure I want him. I like Aldridge a lot, but I'm not sure he's a guy to build around, and trying to build something to give Kobe another shot sounds like a losing proposition.

Moses, I'll defer to you, but IMHO, I think Pippen was a better defender than Lebron. Pippen was just so quick. He just killed the Knicks on and off the ball on D, and it seemed like he could legitimately match up against anyone in the 1-4 spots. I loved him, and hated him.
   2876. J. Sosa Posted: June 30, 2015 at 10:07 PM (#4989457)
Like others here I am in the tank for Pippen. Probably my favorite player ever other than Duncan. It was Simmons who called LeBron mega Pippen and I like it overall. Only if Pippen had Magic's floor game and was built like Malone as has been said in various places.

It has been said many times but if not for Hugh Hollins phantom calls Pippen may very well have taken the Bulls to a final without Jordan. Like JC I like Pippen as a better defender than LeBron. IIRC it seems like he was in position more and didn't gamble quite as much. Of course Jordan took the offensive pressure off and if LeBron wasn't generally carrying the offense he may have surpassed him on defense. I don't think so though. Closest guy I have seen is Leonard. He is stronger than Pippen but isn't quite as quick. Pippen was just a wonderful player.

As for Aldridge he would really have to like glitz to go to LA. I am sure Duncan is pitching him that he will do the lunch pail stuff that Robinson once did for Duncan when the Admiral was winding down. Duncan, Leonard, no state tax. It is close but the Lakers don't have stars in place already. I wouldn't be shocked if it was Lakers but I would think San Antonio makes too much sense.

As for Jordan... He isn't quite Perkins in the post on offense but not far from it. If touches are a factor that is kind of hilarious. Surely he won't leave the Clips?
   2877. Famous Original Joe C Posted: June 30, 2015 at 10:13 PM (#4989460)
Jordan's offensive game, which is already tremendous, is based on pick and rolls and alley-oops.


Tremendous? He has no post game, can't shoot outside of six feet, and has only played with two other superstars (I know he and Blake aren't the best match but still). Barkley said it best - if you left him alone in the gym all night but told him he couldn't dunk, he'd have six points in the morning. Not to mention he's a liability in playoff games if the other team decides to start fouling him.

He's very good defensively, and excellent rebounder (though his stats are inflated just a bit as he's a known rebound hog), his offensive game does have value, and he should get a max deal especially with where the cap is headed - but I strongly disagree that it's fair to characterize his offensive game as "tremendous".

I agree that the Knicks are a good choice for him if he wants more touches. I would guess if he leaves the Clips he'll end up in Dallas though; I think he complements Dirk wonderfully.
   2878. Famous Original Joe C Posted: June 30, 2015 at 10:16 PM (#4989463)
Closest guy I have seen is Leonard. He is stronger than Pippen but isn't quite as quick. Pippen was just a wonderful player.


He's also not nearly the passer/playmaker Pippen was. Suppose there's still time for him to develop it though I don't really see it.
   2879. J. Sosa Posted: June 30, 2015 at 10:24 PM (#4989466)
Should have clarified, closest I have seen on defense. Not close on offense. Pippen could run point, had the hook in the post, and the mid range bank game. But on defense close. Leonard is probably going to be a better distance shooter though.

As fo Alrdridfe and Houston I forgot to mention I would think San Antonio's stars are more attractive. Harden is a ball dominant guard and Dwight likes his shots. Duncan doesn't care. He would take zero shots if asked. Leonard also doesn't require shots. Aldridge would be the man on offense and if Parker is healthy that would be a lethal partnership.
   2880. Famous Original Joe C Posted: June 30, 2015 at 10:41 PM (#4989476)
Should have clarified, closest I have seen on defense. Not close on offense. Pippen could run point, had the hook in the post, and the mid range bank game. But on defense close. Leonard is probably going to be a better distance shooter though.


Of course - just throwing it out there - and agree on the outside shooting.
   2881. Norcan Posted: June 30, 2015 at 11:21 PM (#4989498)
Jordan has a better post game than he's being given credit for. Early on in his career, he was like Asik, a hit or miss proposition to make an open layup but to my great surprise a few seasons ago, he started being able to make little hooks with either hand. I think it was the last year of the Del Negro era, they went him early in games like teams sometimes do with their role playing bigs and he would deliver. If being more involved offensively is something that's important to him, money being pretty equal among his suitors, I could see him being swayed by Phil Jackson's philosophy of getting everyone engaged and making plays.
   2882. rr Posted: June 30, 2015 at 11:51 PM (#4989510)
Pippen was phenomenal.
   2883. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: June 30, 2015 at 11:54 PM (#4989512)
Rumor is that the cap might be 2m higher than expected ... maybe 69.1m.
   2884. rr Posted: July 01, 2015 at 12:01 AM (#4989514)
Alrdridfe


I think this is the LOTR version of Aldridge.
   2885. Maxwn Posted: July 01, 2015 at 12:04 AM (#4989515)
Woj has Davis agreeing to 5/145 extension with NOP.

Edit: Now just better hope Gentry can help them make the leap.
   2886. rr Posted: July 01, 2015 at 12:07 AM (#4989516)
It also depends on what kind of opt-outs, if any, the deal has.
   2887. Maxwn Posted: July 01, 2015 at 12:09 AM (#4989517)
Woj story says opt-out after 4th year.

I guess of the extension. Which would be 5 years from now, I think. Not sure.

Either way, Gentry and the front office ought to have a few years to get it together and turn them into a real contender, it sounds like.
   2888. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 01, 2015 at 12:10 AM (#4989518)
edit: coke to maxwn
   2889. rr Posted: July 01, 2015 at 12:10 AM (#4989519)
then that is very good for NO.
   2890. rr Posted: July 01, 2015 at 12:13 AM (#4989520)
Berger saying SA signed Leonard for 5/90.
   2891. theboyqueen Posted: July 01, 2015 at 12:14 AM (#4989521)
Just watched this highlight reel of a 1995 Pippen 35/9/6/5/2 game where he completely demoralizes Barkley after switching onto him a few possessions into the game. Never paid much attention to what an amazing post defender Pippen was, on top of everything else.

What's up with his salaries on the Bulls? In 1997, when Jordan made 33 million, Pippen made less than 3 million. I sure hope Jordan took care of him.
   2892. King Mekong Posted: July 01, 2015 at 12:14 AM (#4989522)
Not unexpected but still a relief.
   2893. Famous Original Joe C Posted: July 01, 2015 at 12:15 AM (#4989523)
I'm glad Davis is staying with the Pelicans. I'm excited to see Gentry coach that team next year and seeing if they can put a team around him - and if they can't get it together, he can be a free agent again in 2020 at age 27. Everybody wins here.
   2894. theboyqueen Posted: July 01, 2015 at 12:20 AM (#4989524)
Wow AD is getting A-Rod money.
   2895. Famous Original Joe C Posted: July 01, 2015 at 12:23 AM (#4989525)
Wow AD is getting A-Rod money.


So will every guy qualifying for the Rose rule who signs a max contract starting in 2016-17.
   2896. theboyqueen Posted: July 01, 2015 at 12:27 AM (#4989526)
Most of them will still be underpaid. A guy like AD should be worth at least twice as much as any baseball player ever.
   2897. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: July 01, 2015 at 12:28 AM (#4989527)
Rumor!
Aminu to POR for 4/30 (woj, natch)
   2898. Maxwn Posted: July 01, 2015 at 12:29 AM (#4989528)
Woj has Aminu to Portland for 4/$30.

wat

edit: here's your coke back, der-k.
   2899. theboyqueen Posted: July 01, 2015 at 12:32 AM (#4989530)
Not sure I get what Portland is going for right now but Aminu is a nice player. Good for him.
   2900. Maxwn Posted: July 01, 2015 at 12:40 AM (#4989532)
Most of them will still be underpaid. A guy like AD should be worth at least twice as much as any baseball player ever.

While I agree with the basic premise that the NBA's labor market rules make the top guys underpaid, the pedantic economist in me doubts the second sentence is true. While a great NBA player is worth more to a team than a great baseball player is, the MLB also does like double the revenue of the NBA, though that's a bit dated info on wikipedia, so the gap may be smaller now. or bigger, who knows? How all that would net out in a completely unrestricted labor market, I have no idea. My off-the-cuff wild-ass guess is that a top-tier NBA player and a top-tier MLB player are probably worth similar amounts of money, because the NBA player's bigger impact is offset to some extent by the fact that MLB is bigger business. Could be wrong, but I doubt it's double the MLB player's value.
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