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Thursday, August 06, 2020

OT - NBA Bubble Thread

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, and hopefully none of them get caught leaving the bubble for strip club wings.

Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: August 06, 2020 at 06:04 PM | 4034 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: bubbles, nba, off-topic

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   2901. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: September 24, 2020 at 04:55 PM (#5978561)
What I appreciated most about those writers was how they evolved over time. They went from a bunch of people who wrote mostly dumb fun with occasional insights and reporting to people who engaged in a lot of reporting and analysis in not-so-dumb fun ways. As a group, they were more open to outside criticisms than any other popular site, and seemed eager to be more than they used to be. I always appreciated that. For the life of me, I'll never understand why the higher-ups decided their business model would be improved by getting rid of the same writers that drove their traffic.

That's an industry wide problem though, right? That is enough for me to hope this defector gamble pays off for them, that ways other people try the same thing. Kinda like what The Athletic is trying, but for "blogs".
   2902. tshipman Posted: September 24, 2020 at 04:58 PM (#5978562)
I appreciate Deadspin in the same way that I appreciate Howard Zinn.

They were often wrong, but a useful corrective. I'm glad they evolved, but they had a lot of warts. All these woke people used to post a bunch of T&A on their website regularly as part of their standard pageview strategy.
   2903. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: September 24, 2020 at 05:12 PM (#5978563)
All these woke people used to post a bunch of T&A on their website regularly as part of their standard pageview strategy.
Barstool proved that appealing to the lowest common denominator works for sports sites. Deadspin proved that a site didn't have to stay that way to be successful.
Kinda like what The Athletic is trying, but for "blogs".
My subscription to The Athletic was almost purely on principle. FYI, I have some 30-day guest passes for anyone who wants to read the site during the NBA Finals and MLB playoffs. Lemme know.
   2904. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: September 24, 2020 at 05:18 PM (#5978564)
I don't think Hulk Hogan's junk counts as T&A...
   2905. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: September 24, 2020 at 05:42 PM (#5978566)
I'm not saying that's not important in the NBA, but those are still more of college strengths. Again, I don't know that he'd be bad - or I don't think he was *bad* before - I just don't see any reason to expect he would be great (though he could be).

it's not so much that i expect calipari would be great for the sixers; it's that calipari being great for the sixers is one of the only ways i can imagine them recovering from their self-inflicted fence post impaling.

and even if calipari doesn't work miracles for the sixers, it will, at the very least, be interesting.
   2906. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: September 24, 2020 at 05:51 PM (#5978569)
They were often wrong, but a useful corrective. I'm glad they evolved, but they had a lot of warts. All these woke people used to post a bunch of T&A on their website regularly as part of their standard pageview strategy.
fun fact:

they ripped themselves for that, too:
I have written for this site for a decade, and if you dip into my back archive, you’ll find posts that are just as shitty as some of the posts that Portnoy had thrown in his face after his ESPN deal surfaced. One time I wrote a post called “In Defense of Female Objectification,” which featured the standard frat bro logic of, “Don’t blame men for being horny! That’s just the way we are!” I also joined in the comments on a post that goofed on high school football player Holley Mangold (sister of former Jets center Nick) for her size and appearance. She was 16 at the time. And, of course, I wrote a post calling LeBron James a ##########. Three posts, actually. When GLAAD got angry about the first post, I remember going to my old boss and being like, “Why are they mad? ########## just means #######!” I considered only my definition of the slur to be valid, conveniently overruling the definition of people who rightfully take the term literally.
...
Back at Deadspin, this very column featured a Halftime Masturbation Kit that included links to more boobs and butts, as if finding such things yourself online is a difficult endeavor. And so it’s a touch cynical of me to berate Barstool for doing caveman #### when I’ve posted things here that could appear on that site rather seamlessly.
...
One time I wrote a book called Men With Balls, which has a LOT of nasty lines in it. One female Youtuber reviewed it and politely said she didn’t care for it. So what did I do? I posted the review at KSK, of course, with the tag “come here, are ya ticklish?” She took the video down after commenters ripped her mercilessly. I used the money from the book advance to buy a Honda.
...
I am not here to boast to you that I am a changed man. I’m not here to put my hand on my heart and declare the GMG elevators abuse-free, or scrawl ALLY across my chest in red letters. All I can tell you is that I’m not making sexist jokes here anymore. I’m not topping posts with the first Erin Andrews photo I can find. I’m not calling everything gay. And that’s not because I’ve been forbidden from it. I’m not screaming at Marchman to stet SLUT across articles. I just … I don’t wanna make those jokes anymore. They’re not funny. They’re not necessary. And they’re not true. I’m well aware that cultural sensitivity can sometimes careen into the realm of the absurd, but that does not mean I get to dismiss the very real hurt some posts can do.
...
I have tried to reckon with my online past here, but I know the job is incomplete. There’s no “I’m sorry” for men to offer to make everything right. There is only the action … the will to take a good hard look at the man you’ve been, and ask if that’s really the man you want to be. You can either reckon with that now, or you can double down on your assholery. I promise you the latter comes with a bigger price tag.
   2907. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: September 24, 2020 at 06:32 PM (#5978580)
I don't think Hulk Hogan's junk counts as T&A...


All those steroids work in mysterious ways.
   2908. Fourth True Outcome Posted: September 24, 2020 at 07:06 PM (#5978589)
Count me among the group that's glad The Defector exists, and thinks Deadspin was a net good. It started puerile, but grew up and openly grappled with the crappier aspects of its old T&A stuff, rather than just sweeping it under the rug. And for all the warts their coverage and bias brought (nothing worse than righteous spleen-venting you don't agree with...) they were willing to do the sort of sports and sports-adjacent journalism that is genuinely never done by larger, more corporate outlets because they aren't ever going to piss off the money. To see them not only take the personal risk of quitting en masse to not compromise on their principles in the face of incompetence from above but to at least attempt to run a media site that is outside the media economics that have gutted most good journalism over the last couple of decades is great, even if I don't love Albert Burnenko shitting on the teams I like and Cincinnati chili, or whatever your version of that is.
   2909. tshipman Posted: September 24, 2020 at 09:08 PM (#5978606)
I guess Jameer Nelson is never going to miss a jumpshot ever again.

Edit: I meant Jamal Murray, but you know what, the comparison makes sense to me.
   2910. tshipman Posted: September 24, 2020 at 09:47 PM (#5978614)
God, I wish the Lakers could have kept Lonzo instead of Kyle Kuzma.

Kuzma is the epitome of empty numbers. He's played 9 minutes and leads the team in field goal attempts. He has some kind of weird feud with Michael Porter, Jr. Can the Lakers just cut his ass in the middle of the conference finals?
   2911. RJ in TO Posted: September 24, 2020 at 09:51 PM (#5978615)
even if I don't love Albert Burnenko shitting on the teams I like and Cincinnati chili
If he was actually shitting on Cincinnati chili, would you even be able tell the difference?

I wish Defector well, and at least their early subscription numbers made it look like they should be able to make a go of it, but I have long term concerns about any subscription-based online service which has a ton of "free" competitors.

And I will always enjoy Magary's annual "Why Your Team Sucks" series.
   2912. smileyy Posted: September 24, 2020 at 10:07 PM (#5978621)
You all shut your damn mouths about Cincinnati chili.
   2913. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: September 24, 2020 at 10:28 PM (#5978623)
AD has 2 rebounds in the last two games, 66 minutes played. He's certainly scoring well but I wonder if he's fatigued. The Lakers are up but I don't like the flow of the game right now.
   2914. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: September 24, 2020 at 10:31 PM (#5978624)
You all shut your damn mouths about Cincinnati chili.

i don't really have a dog in that fight, but chili + pasta is not an additive combination. there's no synergy going on.
   2915. tshipman Posted: September 24, 2020 at 10:34 PM (#5978625)
AD has 2 rebounds in the last two games, 66 minutes played. He's certainly scoring well but I wonder if he's fatigued. The Lakers are up but I don't like the flow of the game right now.


He's spending a ton of time switched out on guys at the perimeter. He's not even at the FT rebounding spots for the gimmies there. The way he's playing, he's basically never getting the freebie rebounds.
   2916. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: September 24, 2020 at 10:36 PM (#5978626)
He's spending a ton of time switched out on guys at the perimeter. He's not even at the FT rebounding spots for the gimmies there. The way he's playing, he's basically never getting the freebie rebounds.

This is a good point.

Also, Jerami Grant is gonna get paid this offseason.
   2917. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: September 24, 2020 at 10:38 PM (#5978627)
Also, Jerami Grant is gonna get paid this offseason.
hinkie lives.
   2918. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: September 24, 2020 at 10:47 PM (#5978633)
I really don't like the flow of the game for the Lakers right now.
   2919. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: September 24, 2020 at 10:48 PM (#5978634)
More entertaining basketball. Just wonderful.
   2920. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: September 24, 2020 at 10:59 PM (#5978636)
Jamal Murray makes pretty layups.
   2921. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: September 24, 2020 at 11:00 PM (#5978637)
I wouldn't sit Joker right now.
   2922. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: September 24, 2020 at 11:02 PM (#5978638)
Ooooooooh. Noooooooo.
   2923. SteveF Posted: September 24, 2020 at 11:03 PM (#5978639)
I assume he'd take himself out of the game if he heard a pop. He should be ok.
   2924. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: September 24, 2020 at 11:04 PM (#5978640)
Jamal Murray is very real.
   2925. SteveF Posted: September 24, 2020 at 11:06 PM (#5978641)
That wasn't even a foul.
   2926. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: September 24, 2020 at 11:08 PM (#5978642)
How many tough shots can Murray hit?
   2927. tshipman Posted: September 24, 2020 at 11:10 PM (#5978643)
This is a good example of why replay is dumb. It's a terrible call that LeBron somehow fouled Murray by Murray falling down. It's still going to result in Denver possession even if it's overturned, and I kinda doubt they'll overturn.
   2928. SteveF Posted: September 24, 2020 at 11:11 PM (#5978644)
Looked like LeBron bodied him to me and the foul should be confirmed.
   2929. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: September 24, 2020 at 11:11 PM (#5978645)
I honestly don't know why Malone didn't challenge the Millsap foul. There's no guarantee that there's going to be another play you will be able to challenge, there's like 5 minutes in the game. That's why I think this challenge by Vogel is a good one, no matter what the call is. What are you waiting for?
   2930. tshipman Posted: September 24, 2020 at 11:14 PM (#5978646)
Looked like LeBron bodied him to me and the foul should be confirmed.


If that's a foul, then you can just call it on every single possession.
   2931. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: September 24, 2020 at 11:15 PM (#5978649)
If that's a foul, then you can just call it on every single possession.

waaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh
   2932. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: September 24, 2020 at 11:23 PM (#5978650)
Lebron looks gassed. He's settling for bad jumpers.
   2933. tshipman Posted: September 24, 2020 at 11:23 PM (#5978651)
Denver is challenging that?
   2934. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: September 24, 2020 at 11:25 PM (#5978652)
Denver is challenging that?

That's what I meant 2929. Why do coaches hold the challenge? Malone not challenging the Millsap foul to use it for this is wrong.
   2935. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: September 24, 2020 at 11:25 PM (#5978653)
Given that challenges are (a) a use it or lose it proposition and (b) they give you rest time anyway, I think coaches should go ahead and burn those in the 4th and view it as a timeout.
   2936. tshipman Posted: September 24, 2020 at 11:27 PM (#5978654)
Wow, why are you using your last timeout here? You need two scores for sure.
   2937. Booey Posted: September 24, 2020 at 11:34 PM (#5978655)
Nuggets twirling their mustaches deviously at being down 3-1. All part of the master plan...

If they come back from this yet again, it doesn't even matter if they lose in the Finals, it would already be the most impressive playoff run ever.
   2938. SteveF Posted: September 24, 2020 at 11:36 PM (#5978656)
Hard to imagine Denver coming back again. Lakers are winning these games on the boards and by getting to the line.
   2939. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: September 24, 2020 at 11:37 PM (#5978658)
LeBron D'ing Murray in the 4th quarter, with approximately 1 million miles on the odometer, is just super impressive. I do think he was tired and he settling for some jumpers.

Jerami Grant played really well but he also made some costly fouls against LeBron that bailed out the Lakers and were a big difference.

Howard and Rondo were huge in this game and they don't win this game without them.

The Nuggets feel much deeper than the Lakers. They almost won this game with just an average game from Jokic.

Murray hit some incredible shots today. I think he might be the best difficult shot maker in the world right now.

Danny Green looks completely useless sometimes.
   2940. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: September 24, 2020 at 11:50 PM (#5978659)
Jerami Grant played really well but he also made some costly fouls against LeBron that bailed out the Lakers and were a big difference.

LeBron had no jumper today. He should have dared him to shoot.

Danny Green looks completely useless sometimes.

He has a tendency to be either completely useless or the greatest role player ever. Not much in-between.
   2941. Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb Posted: September 24, 2020 at 11:58 PM (#5978660)
I get that Green's role is to shoot 3 pointers and he's going to look bad when they don't go in. But anytime he does anything but shoot on offense, he looks like he has never played basketball before. It's incredible. Even KCP can do a few other things occasionally.
   2942. tshipman Posted: September 25, 2020 at 12:17 AM (#5978661)
I get that Green's role is to shoot 3 pointers and he's going to look bad when they don't go in. But anytime he does anything but shoot on offense, he looks like he has never played basketball before. It's incredible. Even KCP can do a few other things occasionally.


Danny Green just cannot dribble the basketball at all. He's good at most other things, but if you make him take even one dribble, he's the worst player in the NBA.
   2943. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: September 25, 2020 at 12:55 AM (#5978665)
Green used to be able to play some defense, too. He looks absolutely cooked in this series on defense, though. Maybe it's just this particular match-up? He looked fine the first few rounds.
   2944. Rally Posted: September 25, 2020 at 08:16 AM (#5978674)
LeBron D'ing Murray in the 4th quarter, with approximately 1 million miles on the odometer, is just super impressive. I do think he was tired and he settling for some jumpers.


Older Lebron has had some bad defensive numbers for years, going back to his time in Miami. Mostly going by the on/off ratings. But that seems to be mostly an energy conservation choice, so he can stay on the floor and run the offense and survive to tell about it. When he picks his spots to play D, he is still amazing.
   2945. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: September 25, 2020 at 11:22 AM (#5978702)
I found this Simmons hypothetical from his latest pod really interesting. If you could have the following duos over the next 5 years, how would you rank them: Jokic and Murray, Porzingis and Luka, Tatum and Brown, Simmons and Embiid. Curious what people here think. The process I went through in my head:

Performance Record:
1. Luka
2. Jokic
3. Embiid
4. Simmons
5. Tatum
6. KP
7. Brown
8. Murray

Ceiling:
1. Embiid
2. Luka
3. Jokic
4. Simmons
5. Tatum
6. KP
7. Murray
8. Brown

Fit:
1. DAL
2. DEN
3. BOS
4. PHI

5 Year Rank:
1. DAL
2. DEN
3. BOS
4. PHI

I like the offense/defense fit of Luka as hub and KP as rim protector. I think it's easier to fit the rest of the pieces you'll need between those two guys than in other combos. KP's health is a huge worry. Denver is a great offensive fit and I'm really risking it on Murray's performance, but you are going to have to work to put a good defense around these two. I can see a lot of people disagreeing with my Boston rank but (a) I'm not very high on Brown and (b) I (perhaps incorrectly) don't think either guy is an anchor on either end of the floor guaranteeing your team a certain floor of performance. I just really hate the Philly fit.
   2946. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: September 25, 2020 at 11:55 AM (#5978708)
Is age a factor (as part of ceiling)?
   2947. Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus Posted: September 25, 2020 at 11:55 AM (#5978710)
I agree with 1 DAL / 2 DEN, and could go either way on 3/4 but still think I'd go PHI 3 / BOS 4. I agree with you rankings implying I'd rather have Embiid and/or Simmons than either Tatum (I'm still a bit of a Tatum skeptic) but agree that Simmons/Embiid probably don't work together. I could see an argument for the PHI pair over the DEN pair, admitting there's a huge recency bias with DEN right now and Murray still has to prove this is a new level for him. I like Brown as player, but I just think he's a really, really good role player rather than a #2 on a championship team (to go back to other arguments we've had over the years) when I can see the other 7 guys as at least that #2. For the purposes of this exercise, Tatum is the lowest of the possible #1s, so that's what I mean mostly by Tatum skeptic.

Now for a real wrinkle, for those next 5 years where do you put LeBron/AD? Are they still #1 even with with LeBron's age?
   2948. spivey Posted: September 25, 2020 at 12:30 PM (#5978717)
Now for a real wrinkle, for those next 5 years where do you put LeBron/AD? Are they still #1 even with with LeBron's age?


Good question. I think I'm putting them and Giannis/Middleton above any of these 5. I'm not sure where Durant/Kyrie belong, or Steph/Klay. But if you were to ask me who is more likely to win a title in the next 5 years (beyond this year), I think I'd take Brooklyn and GSW over Denver and Philly. And I think that comes down more to the top 2 than any supporting cast stuff.

I like Boston's duo a lot, because I am continuing to see them grow their games, and I think in the playoffs when wings are king, they are super versatile with a ton of supporting casts around them. I think I probably have them above Philly and Denver.
   2949. tshipman Posted: September 25, 2020 at 12:35 PM (#5978718)
Now for a real wrinkle, for those next 5 years where do you put LeBron/AD? Are they still #1 even with with LeBron's age?


I feel like every year you have to project Bron to take a step back until he doesn't.

Maybe I'm too dismissive, but Denver to me just does not belong in the same conversation. Jamal Murray needs to prove that he's more than just bubble cheese. Denver's been outscored in the playoffs, even with Murray overperforming. For me, they're more of a fluke than a contender.
   2950. Fourth True Outcome Posted: September 25, 2020 at 01:04 PM (#5978723)
I must be more pessimistic about KP's long-term health than the rest of you. His recurring injuries, probably colored by the stories about him not rehabbing/training as well as other players, has me pretty down on his ability to stay healthy. I hope I'm wrong, as his game is great and he's a really good fit with Luka.

i don't really have a dog in that fight, but chili + pasta is not an additive combination. there's no synergy going on.

Do you like bolognese? Cincinnati chili is just a meat chili used like a meat sauce, but somehow using the word chili makes people lose their damn minds about it when it's put on spaghetti. It's great, and the weird performative dismissing of it is just people robbing themselves of a delicious dish. Spivey and I will be over here, enjoying it, I guess.
   2951. tshipman Posted: September 25, 2020 at 01:06 PM (#5978724)
Do you like bolognese? Cincinnati chili is just a meat chili used like a meat sauce, but somehow using the word chili makes people lose their damn minds about it when it's put on spaghetti. It's great, and the weird performative dismissing of it is just people robbing themselves of a delicious dish. Spivey and I will be over here, enjoying it, I guess.


They put cinnamon and other weird #### in it that makes it taste disgusting. You're just wrong about this.
   2952. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: September 25, 2020 at 01:11 PM (#5978726)
This is correct. There is a famous place in Milwaukee called "Real Chili" that makes chili, and puts it on spaghetti, leading to something delicious.

The Cincinnati tradition is similar but does include weird seasoning that some don't like. I think it's fine.

The real problem is the Provel cheese in St. Louis.

[edit: I said St. Louis instead of Cincinnati]
   2953. spivey Posted: September 25, 2020 at 01:12 PM (#5978727)
I don't like Cincinnati chili. I don't know how I got roped into that. I don't even eat meat, and I'll be damned if I'm throwing a bunch of cinnamon in my bean chili.
   2954. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: September 25, 2020 at 01:13 PM (#5978728)
i've never had cincinnati chili but i have had pretty good chili with cinnamon in it before, so i'd be willing to give it a shot (as much as i'm naturally inclined to think that if cincy is doing it, they're probably doing it wrong).
more generally, there are a lot of diverse and good types of chili out there.

provel cheese on pizza is bad and the city of saint louis should feel bad for it.

i do think you need to project lebron to take steps back at this point - he turns 36 this year! and i'm discounting murray's recent success a bit as well - hope i'm wrong! good murray is a fun murray! - he hasn't been this in the past.
   2955. puck Posted: September 25, 2020 at 01:34 PM (#5978730)

Also, Jerami Grant is gonna get paid this offseason


That is what I am afraid of. How much is too much for the Nuggets to pay him? Looks like Milsap and Plumlee are off the books after this season. Murray's extension takes most of the Milsap savings.
   2956. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: September 25, 2020 at 01:36 PM (#5978731)
My old roommate was very proud of his Cincinnati chili and would whip it out for special occasions. This was very strange, since (a) he had no idea how to cook in general, (b) he wasn't from anywhere near Cincinnati, and (c) he didn't generally like chili or noodles.

I have to say that in general Cincinnati chili is pretty terrible, but somehow his version turned out decent.

The best Midwest regional delicacy is frozen custard, which is amazing and should supplant ice cream everywhere.
   2957. tshipman Posted: September 25, 2020 at 01:40 PM (#5978733)
That is what I am afraid of. How much is too much for the Nuggets to pay him? Looks like Milsap and Plumlee are off the books after this season. Murray's extension takes most of the Milsap savings.


It's really tricky for the Nuggets because Grant's natural position is the 4. Will Barton is normally in the starting lineup and is a better fit next to Jokic.

MPJ is almost certainly going to move into the starting lineup next season, so Grant ends up being a super sub as a backup 5, backup 4, backup 3. It's hard to fit Jokic, Porter, Barton and Grant on the court. I think they probably would lean towards letting Grant walk in the offseason.
   2958. Dandy Little Glove Man Posted: September 25, 2020 at 01:40 PM (#5978734)
I can't see ranking Embiid over Doncic on ceiling. Embiid is 5 years older and Doncic is already much easier to build an offense around. If Doncic can simply hit 3s at a league average rate (like he did in the playoffs and for much of his rookie year) and make better use of his physical tools defensively, he can quickly become a deserving MVP candidate.

I'm also higher on Tatum than most. Given his age and skill set, I think it's easy to envision how he continues progressing toward the top of the league. Tatum is following the Kawhi blueprint of starting with really good defense and shooting, and then ramping up his shot creation and playmaking without losing efficiency. I can't seem to find the article right now, but I think Tatum led the league in unassisted 3P% this year, hitting 40% of his off-the-dribble 3s on around 200 attempts. I'm sure for every player who continues progressing like Kawhi there are many who don't, but we're talking about upside here.

Ranking that list is still splitting hairs, but purely based on ceiling I'd probably put Doncic in his own tier at the top and consider Tatum for the #2 spot behind him, with most of the other guys in his same tier. Porzingis and Brown would be a level below the rest.
   2959. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: September 25, 2020 at 01:54 PM (#5978736)
The best Midwest regional delicacy is frozen custard, which is amazing and should supplant ice cream everywhere.

I'm not sure about "best" - that's too lofty a title for me to just toss out there - and I'd argue for augment versus supplant? - but it's very good. Also seems to be making significant inroads in my neck of the woods (Triangle) - there are several custard chains with in a short drive of my house.

I also think Doncic's ceiling is pretty clearly ahead of Embiid's.

Grant's a tricky one, the case for him in theory (plus defender who can guard multiple spots and has learned to consistently hit threes while playing the four) is compelling, while his on-court impact has disappointed. I thought they'd keep him though I guess it might depend if someone else makes a giant offer. (I don't think they will - money might not be there - though it only takes one.)
   2960. tshipman Posted: September 25, 2020 at 01:55 PM (#5978737)
Don't you think that Grant gets at least the full MLE?
   2961. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: September 25, 2020 at 01:57 PM (#5978739)
So much depends on the cap, but FA is probably going to be a buyer's market this year I would think. Even if the cap doesn't go down drastically, future cap projections are definitely also down, and people are trying to keep their powder dry for the much stronger free agent class the following year.
   2962. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: September 25, 2020 at 02:02 PM (#5978741)
While I identify as a Vermonter, I've got family roots in Cincinnati, so I know from Cincinnati chili. It is unequivocally a good dish. It is not universally good, but when it's done right, it's fantastic. "Differently-spiced bolognese" is a good reference point. Gold Star is better than Skyline, IIRC. De gustibus non est disputandum and all, but some of you are wrong.

A surprisingly controversial topic.

I can't see ranking Embiid over Doncic on ceiling.
I can see ranking Embiid over Doncic on "most likely to hurt himself running into a ceiling", but otherwise agree with Dandy.
   2963. Rally Posted: September 25, 2020 at 02:10 PM (#5978743)
i do think you need to project lebron to take steps back at this point - he turns 36 this year!


At some point father time gets everyone, I'm just enjoying this run while it lasts (and if it lasts for 5 more wins, Lakers and Lebron have another ring!).

Just looked up the numbers and I'm shocked to see that for the first time in his career, Lebron is getting playoff rest. He's at 34.6 MPG in the playoffs, about the same as he was in the regular season. This has never happened in the playoffs, he only dipped below 40 a few times in his first 13 playoff runs, and then only to 38 or 39.

It's worked like a charm. Rondo is an up and down experience, but on balance he's done a solid job handling the ball when Lebron is out. And if the extra rest is what allows Lebron to play championship D on quick little guys like Murray in the 4th quarter, then kudos to Frank Vogel for selling him on the plan, and for sticking to it.
   2964. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: September 25, 2020 at 02:37 PM (#5978746)
I've had Skyline chili once. I agree the worst part is the attempts to put things other than chili on it, such as onions or cheese. Remove that, and it's ok, though I'd prefer an actual bolognese.
   2965. Fourth True Outcome Posted: September 25, 2020 at 02:48 PM (#5978751)
Apologies, Spivey, I apparently can't differentiate between your username and smileyy, who if in fact correct on this issue.
   2966. . . . . . . Posted: September 25, 2020 at 02:54 PM (#5978753)
Cincinnati chili is just a greek meat sauce. It was invented by greeks and its spiced like greek meat sauces are spiced - with cinnamon and allspice. It's essentially the same meat sauce used in a Moussaka. (Incidentally, Moussaka is itself an 20th invented dish, combining traditional greek components with french technique like béchamel. But the ancestry of Moussaka and Cincinnati chili is basically the same.)

I think it's terrific when done right, but then again I like Moussaka too. And it sure as hell aint "chili".

Graeter's is the best Cinci invention of them all. Best chocolate chip ice cream in the world.
   2967. Fourth True Outcome Posted: September 25, 2020 at 02:56 PM (#5978754)
Graeter's is the best Cinci invention of them all. Best chocolate chip ice cream in the world.

This is the truest thing anyone has said in these threads. I grew up in Cincy until I was 13 or so, and there was a day the neighbors, who were part of the Graeter's family but not professionally part of the ice cream scene, had a Graeter's truck show up at their house to help them move, and my brother nearly lost his damn mind because he thought it was full of their ice cream.
   2968. . . . . . . Posted: September 25, 2020 at 02:58 PM (#5978755)
This is the truest thing anyone has said in these threads. I grew up in Cincy until I was 13 or so, and there was a day the neighbors, who were part of the Graeter's family but not professionally part of the ice cream scene, had a Graeter's truck show up at their house to help them move, and my brother nearly lost his damn mind because he thought it was full of their ice cream.


The day Whole Foods started carrying Graeters pints nationally was the happiest day of all. It is SO good. My wife - a born and bred New Englander who grew up on Harrells - readily admits its the best.
   2969. Fourth True Outcome Posted: September 25, 2020 at 02:59 PM (#5978756)
Out here in Oregon they carried it in Fred Meyer groceries (owned by Kroger) for two or three months a couple of years ago; I was devastated when my supply quickly evaporated.
   2970. Der-K's emotional investment is way up Posted: September 25, 2020 at 03:03 PM (#5978757)
Graeter's is outstanding.
   2971. tshipman Posted: September 25, 2020 at 03:04 PM (#5978758)
The best thing about Cincinnati is Jungle Jim's.

Graeter's is fine. There's a lot of good ice cream out there. Jeni's in Columbus is good. Salt and Straw out of Portland is good.
   2972. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: September 25, 2020 at 03:16 PM (#5978763)
Best chocolate chip ice cream in the world.
There's a lot of good ice cream out there.
That's why the decisive advantage isn't the ice cream, it's those beautifully aleatoric* chocolate chips.

* they are actually chipped from the inside of drums, which means you get a wide variety of fairly random chip sizes, and they use a soft enough texture of chocolate that the big ones are lovely to eat.
   2973. . . . . . . Posted: September 25, 2020 at 03:20 PM (#5978765)
That's why the decisive advantage isn't the ice cream, it's those beautifully aleatoric* chocolate chips.

* they are actually chipped from the inside of drums, which means you get a wide variety of fairly random chip sizes, and they use a soft enough texture of chocolate that the big ones are lovely to eat.


exactly. There are many great ice creams, but only one that includes the incredible, proprietary chips.
   2974. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: September 25, 2020 at 03:22 PM (#5978766)
Do you like bolognese? Cincinnati chili is just a meat chili used like a meat sauce, but somehow using the word chili makes people lose their damn minds about it when it's put on spaghetti. It's great, and the weird performative dismissing of it is just people robbing themselves of a delicious dish. Spivey and I will be over here, enjoying it, I guess.
i don't like most italian style pastas/sauces, either. or rather, i have the same complaints about those dishes that i have about cincinnati chili.


i do make an exception for cacio e pepe, because it is, quite literally, exceptional.
   2975. . . . . . . Posted: September 25, 2020 at 03:24 PM (#5978767)
i don't like most italian style pastas


" I don't like most beef style steak"

"I don't like most japanese style sushi"

"I don't like most mexican style tacos"
   2976. aberg Posted: September 25, 2020 at 03:30 PM (#5978769)
This postseason has been really good for UK players. AD, Murray, Bam, Herro, Rondo...
   2977. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: September 25, 2020 at 03:31 PM (#5978770)
(The actual best thing out of Cincinnati is either The National or Bootsy Collins, though.)
   2978. If on a winter's night a traveling violation Posted: September 25, 2020 at 03:41 PM (#5978773)
[2795] Macaroni and cheese and beef stroganoff would like a word.
   2979. ramifications of an exciting 57i66135 Posted: September 25, 2020 at 03:48 PM (#5978776)
" I don't like most beef style steak"

"I don't like most japanese style sushi"

"I don't like most mexican style tacos"

beef is an ingredient, not a cooking method.

i guess there is korean-style sushi (kimbap), too, but japanese sushi is pretty singular. there's also spam musubi

korean style tacos are outstanding, and every bit as good as mexican style. and taco bell sure as hell isn't a "mexican-style" taco.



but more topically, nearly every culture in the world has some kind of pasta/noodle/rice with sauce dish that is comparable to italian pastas.
   2980. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: September 25, 2020 at 04:08 PM (#5978778)
(The actual best thing out of Cincinnati is either The National or Bootsy Collins, though.)

Also The Afghan Whigs.
   2981. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: September 25, 2020 at 04:20 PM (#5978780)
The fascination in the Midwest with putting cinnamon in/with chilis (or chili-like substances) is disturbing. My sister was horrified when she moved out to Iowa from Southern California and the school cafeteria (she's a teacher) had a chili and cinnamon roll day every month. And this wasn't some crazy "let's try something insane!!!" cafeteria experiment, but a normal recurrence. I told her to get out of there quickly, but alas, she could not. Thankfully, she's maintained her "no chili on cinnamon rolls" stance in enemy territory.
   2982. Your favorite TFTIO, me! Posted: September 25, 2020 at 04:27 PM (#5978783)
Wait wait wait chili as in beans and meat and such? On cinnamon rolls?

What are the hell?
   2983. Fourth True Outcome Posted: September 25, 2020 at 04:43 PM (#5978790)
I hope we can all agree that idea is an abomination.
   2984. RJ in TO Posted: September 25, 2020 at 06:04 PM (#5978807)
My sister was horrified when she moved out to Iowa from Southern California and the school cafeteria (she's a teacher) had a chili and cinnamon roll day every month.
What in the seven shitting ##### is this nonsense?
   2985. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: September 25, 2020 at 06:30 PM (#5978813)
Wait wait wait chili as in beans and meat and such? On cinnamon rolls?


Yes. To my ongoing confusion, this is a thing, at least in Iowa. I've had people from Iowa say both things - that they've never heard of such a thing and that yes, they've experienced it and enjoyed it. At which point I call the police.

In case you think I'm making this up, a quick Google search shows plenty of hits talking about this being a Nebraska/Iowa phenomenon. Well, less "phenomenon" and more "culinary monstrosity," but it's a thing.
   2986. tshipman Posted: September 25, 2020 at 06:36 PM (#5978815)
Another Iowa thing is Taco Pizza.

Somehow it takes two great things, and creates something that is neither, and also much, much worse.
   2987. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: September 25, 2020 at 07:23 PM (#5978818)
Another Iowa thing is Taco Pizza.

Somehow it takes two great things, and creates something that is neither, and also much, much worse.


Woof. I will say, though, that two of the other...delicacies (??) that Iowa has to offer are quite wonderful: the fried pork tenderloin and the walking taco. The walking taco being a fair staple wherein you take an individual size bag of chips (usually corn chips like Doritos or Fritos, but other chips work too), opening the bag, and then dumping ground beef and other taco fixings in there. You then eat the whole mess with a fork while you walk around and admire large, green farm equipment. I couldn't tell you if it's a uniquely Iowan treat, but that's the only place I've seen it.
   2988. RJ in TO Posted: September 25, 2020 at 08:09 PM (#5978830)
The taco pizza is something for which I've seen variations and, while I'm not interested in actually consuming it, is recognizable as a real and believable food item. Fried pork tenderloin sounds like an absolutely delicious heart attack.

The walking taco is also known as Frito pie. It's not an Iowa-specific thing.
   2989. Fourth True Outcome Posted: September 25, 2020 at 08:50 PM (#5978833)
The walking taco is also known as Frito pie. It's not an Iowa-specific thing.

There are also tostilocos, tositos covered with fruit, peanuts, chicharrones, and sweet sauce and chili, that I've seen at Mexican places in the southwest. I was confused by the mix of sweet and savory stuff, but I can see how a person could like it. The way I saw it had the bag opened the long way and used as a sort of platter.
   2990. SteveF Posted: September 25, 2020 at 09:00 PM (#5978834)
Someone euthanize this Celtics team.
   2991. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: September 25, 2020 at 09:21 PM (#5978840)
Why is Duncan Robinson good?
   2992. tshipman Posted: September 25, 2020 at 09:42 PM (#5978844)
Am I misunderstanding you?

Duncan Robinson shoots 45% on 10 3pers per 36. That's why he's good.
   2993. SteveF Posted: September 25, 2020 at 09:44 PM (#5978845)
He's also tall and has a pretty quick release.
   2994. tshipman Posted: September 25, 2020 at 09:47 PM (#5978846)
Kemba is just flopping up a storm here in the second quarter.
   2995. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: September 25, 2020 at 09:48 PM (#5978847)
The Celtics are getting some nice ref help here.
   2996. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: September 25, 2020 at 09:49 PM (#5978848)
Duncan Robinson shoots 45% on 10 3pers per 36. That's why he's good.
I mean, yeah, I know. But why's he so good now, when he wasn't even a big deal on his own team in college? It blows my mind.
   2997. tshipman Posted: September 25, 2020 at 09:50 PM (#5978849)
What is even the point of instant replay? They should just get rid of it.
   2998. tshipman Posted: September 25, 2020 at 09:56 PM (#5978850)
I mean, yeah, I know. But why's he so good now, when he wasn't even a big deal on his own team in college? It blows my mind.


Well, he's a role player. So he requires a specific niche in a specific ecosystem to thrive. Miami has recognized that he had the potential to fill that niche, took a chance, and he thrived.

It's really hard to predict which of like 20 guys who look to have the skillset in college will actually put the work in to develop the skill to an elite level and fit cleanly into the niche. Miami is really good at finding guys like this, and they have a bomber like this seemingly every year.

Like, to an extent, Duncan Robinson is a creation of Bam, Jimmy and Dragic, but Duncan also helps those guys be better.

Who creates the value? The shooter who buries the shot, the screener who frees the shooter, or the creator who makes the pass?

Edit: or is it the coach who creates the system?
   2999. Crosseyed and Painless Posted: September 25, 2020 at 09:57 PM (#5978852)
I know Miami deserves credit for forcing them into it with their defense, but it really feels like Boston's played their D- game offensively this whole series.
   3000. tshipman Posted: September 25, 2020 at 10:02 PM (#5978853)
If you put Ernie Johnson on the ESPN halftime show instead of whoever the current host is, would it be watchable?

What if you swapped Charles Barkley in for Paul Pierce?

I think if you swapped both in, they could carry Jalen Rose to the Kenny Smith role, but I wonder if just one of those guys could make the ESPN show watchable.
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