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Friday, October 05, 2018

OT - NBA Thread (2018-19 season kickoff edition)

I estimate only 10-12 Primates care about the NBA, none of whom knew the old thread would get closed, thus detracting from what this site is really about: the baseball playoffs, maybe?

Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: October 05, 2018 at 03:43 PM | 6856 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: basketball, nba, off-topic

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   6801. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: February 13, 2019 at 04:57 PM (#5815080)
Why don’t the 76’ers run more pick and roll. Butler/Embiid or Embiid//Harris would be a much better use of possessions than Embiid getting owned in the post by daddy Al then getting frustrated and chucking 3’s.
embiid does not appear to be comfortable running the pick and roll. he's also not particularly good at defending it.
But--MHS is right, as it's been remarked before. Philadelphia's bizarre refusal to run the pick-and-roll--despite having one of the very best lineups in the NBA to run the pick-and-roll with! They should be PnRing people to death!

it's not really the pnr itself that the sixers need, it's the ability to use the pick and roll to force defenses to switch, thereby creating offensive mismatches.

in general, the sixers are terrible at forcing and abusing mismatches.
   6802. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: February 13, 2019 at 06:00 PM (#5815106)
*Tries to shake memories of AI NBA Jam opponents hitting buzzer-beating full-court winners with a greater than 90 percent success rate*


You're supposed to get back and goaltend it. You're allowed to goaltend after the buzzer!
   6803. PJ Martinez Posted: February 13, 2019 at 07:04 PM (#5815118)
Blazers beat a crowded field for Kanter, including the Lakers, per sources. Kanter is an important addition for Blazers, where he'll play a good share of minutes. Portland signed Kanter to a $70M offer sheet in 2015, which OKC matched.
   6804. Booey Posted: February 13, 2019 at 08:04 PM (#5815133)
Embiid fined 25k after saying, "These refs f***ing sucked" at the end of last night's postgame press conference.

We'll see if he ends up getting the Gobert treatment the next couple of games...
   6805. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: February 13, 2019 at 08:08 PM (#5815134)
We'll see if he ends up getting the Gobert treatment the next couple of games...
not a chance.

#charisma
   6806. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: February 13, 2019 at 08:20 PM (#5815135)
As an impartial observer of the Philadelphia-Boston game, I thought the officiating was slanted somewhat in Philadelphia's favor, if anything.

I really don't understand what Portland wants with Kanter. Well, I don't know what anyone would want with Kanter, but especially Portland.
   6807. tshipman Posted: February 13, 2019 at 08:55 PM (#5815137)
Blazers beat a crowded field for Kanter, including the Lakers, per sources. Kanter is an important addition for Blazers, where he'll play a good share of minutes. Portland signed Kanter to a $70M offer sheet in 2015, which OKC matched.


I did not know Enes Kanter's agent broke NBA news.
   6808. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: February 13, 2019 at 09:43 PM (#5815144)
Mitchell Robison is good.
   6809. JC in DC Posted: February 13, 2019 at 09:47 PM (#5815145)
Playoff atmosphere in NY! Indeed, it's hard not to dream on Mitchell.
   6810. Paul D(uda) Posted: February 13, 2019 at 10:08 PM (#5815148)
Siakam had 44 tonight.
   6811. . . . . . . Posted: February 13, 2019 at 10:15 PM (#5815149)
Excellent loss by the Knicks tonight.
   6812. Booey Posted: February 13, 2019 at 10:17 PM (#5815150)
Gorgonzola Havarti with 3 straight good games of at least 18 pts on efficient shooting (and 4 of the last 5).
   6813. CFBF's Overflowing Pathos Posted: February 13, 2019 at 10:18 PM (#5815151)
Naive question: how did Giannis last until the 15th selection in the draft? I mean, I understand you can ask that question about a lot of guys who end up becoming superdee-dooperdee-stars, but Giannis just seems like such a ridiculous human specimen that it's hard to see how someone didn't fall in love with the seven-footer with the condor wingspan, pogo stick legs and point guard handle earlier. Has he developed that much since coming into the NBA?
   6814. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: February 13, 2019 at 10:25 PM (#5815153)
Naive question: how did Giannis last until the 15th selection in the draft? I mean, I understand you can ask that question about a lot of guys who end up becoming superdee-dooperdee-stars, but Giannis just seems like such a ridiculous human specimen that it's hard to see how someone didn't fall in love with the seven-footer with the condor wingspan, pogo stick legs and point guard handle earlier. Has he developed that much since coming into the NBA?

This was made for you.
   6815. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: February 13, 2019 at 10:29 PM (#5815154)
He's very skilled and long, but lacks strength and explosiveness at this point. The problem for him and scouts is that the level of competition that he's played at at is very low, considered by scouts as the equivalent to Div 2-3 college ball, making it more difficult to project him. He'll also need to improve upon his shooting ability. NBA Comparison: DerMarr Johnson
Gobert has really been dropping after missing the adidas Eurocamp, and failing to impress in workouts. Gobert struggled some at the draft combine as he looked mechanical and slow running the floor. On the bright side, he has ridiculous length with a 7-foot-9 wingspan. He also possesses good shooting touch and appears to have a body that will allow him to add strength and eventually battle in the paint in the NBA.He struggled to put up consistent numbers in the French League. So the question is whether teams will be willing to look past the lack of productivity and draft him on potential. His mobility and athleticism are average by NBA standards and he still needs to get tougher and develop a better feel for the game. The concern with Gobert is whether he has the speed and agility in an NBA where quickness trumps size. NBA Comparison: Shawn Bradley
Despite being 6'7, Bennett's wingspan makes him essentially a 6'9 player and he's got massive shoulders and hands. Bennett wins the award for most vicious dunks in college as he had numerous dunks that reminded fans of Shaq. He lacks the foot speed to defend on the perimeter, essentially making him a stretch 4. Some scouts have even mentioned him as a potential #1 pick, though that's probably a reach, considering he's a tweener and the last 6'9 or under PF to go first was Kenyon Martin. Bennett battled injury problems in high school and appeared to be breaking down some towards the end of the year. His post season shoulder surgery reinforces his reputation for being injury prone and has made it impossible for him to work out for teams leading up to the draft. Without the injury concerns he'd likely be a top 5 pick, with them he could slide a few spots. NBA Comparison: Rodney Rogers
his return coincided with the team's resurgence as he anchored Louisville's interior defense. His condor like 7'3.5 wingspan makes him a formidable obstacle around the basket. NBA Comparison: Ruben Boumtje-Boumtje
He is a better version of his brother Miles who somehow landed in the late first round in 2012. While he's not overly skilled in the post, he shows nice explosiveness, runs the floor well and shows a willingness to fight for rebounds and play tough in the paint. In such a weak draft, Plumlee figures to land in the teens. NBA Comparison: Yi Jianlian
   6816. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: February 13, 2019 at 10:34 PM (#5815155)
I think Giannis was 6'9" when he was drafted, and subsequently grew two inches. Am I remembering that right?
   6817. CFBF's Overflowing Pathos Posted: February 13, 2019 at 10:44 PM (#5815157)
6814: Amusingly, the tidbit about the Knicks not sending a scout was what prompted me to ask the question here.
   6818. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: February 13, 2019 at 11:10 PM (#5815159)
Here was Bill Simmons' take on the Antetokounmpo pick.
   6819. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: February 13, 2019 at 11:15 PM (#5815160)
[6816] Yep. Same thing happened with Paul George.
   6820. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: February 13, 2019 at 11:22 PM (#5815162)
Here was Bill Simmons' take on the Antetokounmpo pick.
in this video, the BSer compares a pu pu platter to:
A: carmelo anthony's pick and roll defense vs. ATL
B: BOS's return in the garnett/pierce to BRK trade.
C: the NJ turnpike authority raising the toll for the george washington bridge.
D: khloe kardashian hosting saturday night live while her husband, lamar odom, was in a coma because of a heroin overdose, and not expected to come out of it.



a hint


this one is also really good.
   6821. calming him down with his 57i66135 Posted: February 13, 2019 at 11:24 PM (#5815163)
again, from nbadraft.net:
Athletic wing with a remarkable 7’3” wingspan of and incredibly huge hands ... He’s still in the development stage and has grown three inches since last year ... Standing 6’9
   6822. tshipman Posted: February 14, 2019 at 12:39 AM (#5815170)
Giannis was playing in a really bad Greek league and wasn't dominant.

He was playing 22 minutes and less than 10 ppg, 5 rebounds, less than 2 assists and less than a steal and block per game.

Projecting an MVP candidate from that would have gotten laughed out of the room.
   6823. MHS Posted: February 14, 2019 at 07:31 AM (#5815194)
Does anyone have a good theory or seen a good article on why the Celtics play better without Kyrie? Maybe it’s a bias but it sure seems like it.

And I totally buy into Stevens position that Kyrie can let them be the best version of themselves.
   6824. PJ Martinez Posted: February 14, 2019 at 08:59 AM (#5815209)
Does anyone have a good theory or seen a good article on why the Celtics play better without Kyrie? Maybe it’s a bias but it sure seems like it.
My theory, which I share with Chris Forsberg, is that they are not, in fact, better without Kyrie, despite their 10-2 record in games that he's missed. Here are the numbers:
The two Kyrie-less losses came against two current playoff teams with a combined winning percentage of .534. The 10 wins came against nine teams — three of which are currently playoff bound — with a combined winning percentage of .457. Put another way, more than half of the wins have come against lottery teams.

The more telling stat here is Boston’s overall on/off splits this season. With Irving on the court, Boston’s offensive rating is a team-best 113.8 and the team owns a net rating of plus-8.9 overall in his 1,526 minutes of floor time. Boston’s offensive rating plummets to 105 — a mark that would rank them 27th behind the Cleveland Cavaliers if maintained for the season — with a team-worst off-court net rating of plus-1.8 during the 1,278 minutes with Irving off the floor. Those net ratings suggest that, when Irving is on the court, the Celtics play at a level somewhere between conference leaders Milwaukee and Golden State, and, when he’s on the bench, they are a seventh or eighth seed at best.
I do think that the team has chemistry issues, as previously discussed, which can probably be traced in part to Irving; I don't think the younger players have really clicked with him, I think they get frustrated with their roles in the offense, and I think that this sometimes shows in their performance. (Rozier, e.g., seems to be better when he starts, which he basically only does when Irving's out.) But that, as also previously discussed, is pretty vague and disputable. I don't think, on the other hand, that there's much of a case to be made that, this season, they have been better, as a team, without him on the floor.
   6825. JC in DC Posted: February 14, 2019 at 09:27 AM (#5815213)
I have reached the point of saturation with the GSW. Yes, they're great. And I love watching them play. But they're also severely full of ####. Kerr getting thrown out was a joke: that was a complete flagrant on Collins by Green. It would have been outrageous had they not called it. Good for the refs.
   6826. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: February 14, 2019 at 10:26 AM (#5815238)
My impression from the few Kyrie-less Boston games I've watched is that they play better defense without him, but also are prone to long stretches where they really struggle to score points. They're kind of a reverse Denver: I don't trust Denver in the playoffs because they can't get a stop when they need one, and I don't trust (a Kyrie-less) Boston in the playoffs because they can't get a bucket when they need one. Boston's management knew that; it's why they acquired Kyrie.

Really fun Denver-Sacramento game last night. The officiating was very biased in Sacramento's favor (the game was in Denver) in the first half, throughout which Mike Malone grew increasingly angry until he flipped out near halftime and got ejected. The officiating was much better in the second half, and Denver managed to eke out an ugly win.

Malone loses his #### and berates the refs regularly, far more than any other current coach I've seen. Malone seems like a good coach, but his anger management issues are a serious problem for Denver. Setting aside the way a coach's comportment will rub off on his team, to put it mildly, it does a team no favors when the refs hate its coach. I honestly think at this point that were I running Denver, I would sit Malone down and tell him very clearly that you will immediately cease abusing the officials or you're fired. He's a good coach, but not so good that it's worth having your team constantly struggling against biased officiating because your coach is an abusive ####### to the refs and they can't stand him.

Also: Kosta Koufos was playing in crunch time for a team that is trying to make the playoffs.
   6827. jmurph Posted: February 14, 2019 at 10:30 AM (#5815241)
I enjoyed the Kings-Nuggets game, too. Isaiah had some moments, which was great to see, though I doubt he's going to be much of a factor once the playoffs start. I really just hope they can get somewhere near fully healthy.
   6828. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: February 14, 2019 at 10:50 AM (#5815246)
Otto Porter is actually a really nice fit on this Bulls team. Obviously he's just in a hot shooting stretch right now, and the Bulls are still terrible, but I think I'm even more happy with how that trade will work out than I was on the day it happened. Again, remember we're grading the Bulls on a curve here. (He had 37 on 16 for 20 shooting last night.)
   6829. Tin Angel Posted: February 14, 2019 at 03:25 PM (#5815382)
Kerr getting thrown out was a joke: that was a complete flagrant on Collins by Green.


Warriors fan but I thought it was pretty questionable. They called it since tensions were clearly escalating, so ok I kind of get it. But in the second quarter of a Magic Suns game there is no way that's a flagrant.
   6830. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: February 14, 2019 at 03:38 PM (#5815394)
i thought the consensus was that it wasn't a flagrant (not that green doesn't lose his mind on the reg)?
   6831. MHS Posted: February 14, 2019 at 03:50 PM (#5815403)
I watched some of the Denver game last night but ended up having to goto bed after It’s first rotation. It’s great seeing him in the court again. I’ll always pull for that guy.

Oh yeah and Joker is great.
   6832. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: February 14, 2019 at 04:19 PM (#5815421)
On Giannis: I figured who better to consult than us. I went back to the thread about the 2013 draft that Giannis was in and I found... nothing. The discussion of international players is centered around Bebe Nogueira with some mixed thoughts on Gobert mixed in. This is literally the only mention of the man who would end up spelling his name Antetokoumpo, from RollingWave:

One that's almost surely to happen is Thomas Robinson being moved for a pick, the Rockets will probably used said pick on one of Adentokunbo / Noguiera / Gobert (in that order) and just stash them overseas.


He was mentioned a few other times as "the Greek guy" but there is zero discussion of him as a player. Some other things from that thread -- I will avoid the STIGGLES wall of block quotes.

Things that we had consensus on and got right:
-- Anthony Bennett #1 was a disaster
-- Porter has done well
-- Shabazz Muhammad would be a mega-bust
-- Pretty high level of excitement about Gobert

Things that we had consensus on and got wrong:
-- Nerlens Noel should have been drafted #1 even with injury concerns
-- Olynyk is worthless and a big overdraft (Celtics fans most of all)
-- The big one: general take on the Garnett/Pierce trade for the Celtics was negative (though mixed, but no one was excited), and people felt somewhat positive about it for Brooklyn. We were, in retrospect, probably too aghast at the C's taking on Gerald Wallace's contract. Der-K felt that Boston should not do that deal. Wallace is signed for three more seasons at 10.1M per!

Random notes/comments that are amusing in retrospect:
-- A much rumored trade was Luol Deng to the Wizards for Emeka Okafor and the #3 pick that became Otto Porter. Porter made it to Chicago eventually after all!
-- A terrible take from yours truly: Not sure why the Pistons would take McCollum over [Trey] Burke.
-- Lots of discussions of the Jordan Bulls vs the Heatles, if that floats your boat.
-- Pelton on Boban: He hasn't been in the Euroleague or EuroCup in two years, but looks like he could be about replacement level. Not as good a shot blocker as you'd think for a 7-3 guy, but an OK finisher/rebounder, it appears.
-- I miss Maxwn. Come back to the thread, buddy!
-- Gold Star on the Suns drafting Len: Suns take the early lead in the Wiggins sweepstakes.
-- Der-K (sorry to pick on you): Supposedly, we (atl) really wanted that Greek guy. I'm happy w Bebe myself...
-- Tom Cervo zinger: I had one class with Solomon Hill. He was not interested in Middle Eastern history...
-- Booey zinger: I keep forgetting that 'Pelicans' is actually the teams real name now. Whenever I see someone write it, my first thought is always that they're making fun of them like we do with the Horcats.

   6833. jmurph Posted: February 14, 2019 at 04:40 PM (#5815436)
Things that we had consensus on and got wrong:
-- Nerlens Noel should have been drafted #1 even with injury concerns

Cue stiggles posting the per-36 numbers for a guy who plays a third of that.
   6834. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: February 14, 2019 at 04:43 PM (#5815439)
I still like Bebe!
My approach to picks has plusses and minuses. One minus is that I will always miss on a Giannis (that's a big minus!).
   6835. JJ1986 Posted: February 14, 2019 at 06:33 PM (#5815479)
I'm pretty sure I was very high on Noel, way too positive on Burke and I still don't believe Olynyk will be any good.
   6836. Tin Angel Posted: February 14, 2019 at 06:54 PM (#5815486)
The NBA is sending us into all star weekend with some real gems...Orlando vs. Charlotte or Atlanta vs. NY is a tough decision.
   6837. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: February 14, 2019 at 07:26 PM (#5815490)
I remember being ecstatic about Burke. Oof. I think I was happy about the Gobert pick, seeing him as a lottery ticket they didn't have to give up anything for.
   6838. PJ Martinez Posted: February 14, 2019 at 07:29 PM (#5815491)
Markieff Morris had an aggressive market over the past week — with pursuits from the Thunder, Rockets, Nets, Raptors and several others. OKC received the commitment from Morris on Thursday.
   6839. Howie Menckel Posted: February 14, 2019 at 09:59 PM (#5815515)
what could go wrong?

Tim MacMahon
‏Verified account @espn_macmahon
43m43 minutes ago

Anthony Davis will not return to the game due to a left shoulder injury, according to the Pelicans.
   6840. Booey Posted: February 14, 2019 at 10:08 PM (#5815518)
Anthony Davis will not return to the game due to a left shoulder injury, according to the Pelicans.


My expert medical advice as some guy who saw a couple episodes of ER about 15 years ago is that AD should sit out the All Star game to rest, and since team LeBron will need a replacement...sigh...I GUESS Gobert will have to do.

Keep in mind that my motivations are entirely related to Davis's long term health and what's best for his career going forward, of course.
   6841. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: February 15, 2019 at 08:27 AM (#5815558)
I am on usually excited for the celebrity game tonight. Not least of which because of Brad Williams participation, that’s Brad Williams the 4’4” comedian.
   6842. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: February 15, 2019 at 08:49 AM (#5815563)
I am on usually excited for the celebrity game tonight. Not least of which because of Brad Williams participation, that’s Brad Williams the 4’4” comedian.


I really hope that Muggsy Bogues gets to play and abuses him in the post.
   6843. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: February 15, 2019 at 08:54 AM (#5815568)
We have a player who doesn't really want to play unless it's for the Lakers but has 290,000 reasons each game to halfheartedly do so while the home fans rain boos down on him, a team that doesn't really want him to play either because they'd rather be tanking, and a league office that is forcing the team to play him anyway.

I'm shocked, shocked, that injury has struck this player. Of all the rotten luck!
   6844. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: February 15, 2019 at 09:00 AM (#5815571)
Belated happy Denzel Valentine's Day to everyone.
   6845. NJ in NY (Now with two kids!) Posted: February 15, 2019 at 10:43 AM (#5815613)
I am on usually excited for the celebrity game tonight. Not least of which because of Brad Williams participation, that’s Brad Williams the 4’4” comedian.

I LOVE the celebrity game. Might be my favorite event of ASW actually.
   6846. Booey Posted: February 15, 2019 at 11:08 AM (#5815620)
I'm shocked, shocked, that injury has struck this player. Of all the rotten luck!


If he (or the team) is milking the injury though, wouldn't it make more sense to wait until after the AS game (I assume AD wants to play in it)? It's gonna look bad if he plays in the AS game and then decides to shut it down for a while.


(And most importantly, it will deny me of my wish to get Gobert into the game)
   6847. Der-K: at 10% emotional investment Posted: February 15, 2019 at 11:31 AM (#5815628)
I just wish the celebrity game had more interesting entrants - that list is rough.
   6848. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: February 15, 2019 at 11:57 AM (#5815640)
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn 5m5 minutes ago

New Orleans has parted ways with GM Dell Demps, league sources tell ESPN.


Whoa
   6849. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: February 15, 2019 at 12:04 PM (#5815646)
As was discussed at length, Demps was pretty unprofessional in handling the Davis situation (and isn't a very good GM, anyway). But I wonder if that's all there is to it, or if New Orleans ownership is now prepared to capitulate to the general demand to give Davis to the Lakers.

But in any case, why in the world would you fire him now?
   6850. tshipman Posted: February 15, 2019 at 12:08 PM (#5815649)
Poorly run franchises make bad decisions at seemingly random times.
   6851. PJ Martinez Posted: February 15, 2019 at 12:16 PM (#5815652)
But in any case, why in the world would you fire him now?
To give the organization time to bring in a new team that can map out a decent plan going forward before the decision with Davis has to be made?

Granted, the Pelicans might screw this up, but as a general proposition, making this move now makes all the sense in the world to me. (Maybe they should have done it sooner, but that ship had sailed.)
   6852. tshipman Posted: February 15, 2019 at 12:19 PM (#5815656)
To give the organization time to bring in a new team that can map out a decent plan going forward before the decision with Davis has to be made?

Granted, the Pelicans might screw this up, but as a general proposition, making this move now makes all the sense in the world to me. (Maybe they should have done it sooner, but that ship had sailed.)


If that's the plan, they should have fired Demps and have ownership handle all trade calls.
   6853. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: February 15, 2019 at 12:20 PM (#5815657)
@wojespn

Ownership was livid with an injured Anthony Davis leaving arena during Thursday night’s game, sources say. Gayle Benson is telling associates she wants an overhaul of Pelicans and a search for a GM to take command of Davis trade talks and the reshaping of team’s future.


Getting rid of Demps and overhauling the FO makes sense, but getting that upset because Davis left the arena is pretty funny. What leverage would any GM have over a player as good as Davis in that scenario?
   6854. JC in DC Posted: February 15, 2019 at 12:26 PM (#5815660)
Ok, so it was Atlanta, but that lineup NY rolled out last night actually looked like an NBA lineup. I like adding Kornet's height, and as much as a wish Vonleh would become something, he's just a bit too "off" as a player still to be as good as he might be. But, they moved the ball and defended well, and looked like an actual NBA team.
   6855. jmurph Posted: February 15, 2019 at 01:20 PM (#5815680)
Eh I don't think the timing of this is particularly weird or problematic, I'm with PJ. They didn't like the way he handled the Davis situation and want to get the right person in place to make the trade/manage the rebuild. Certainly better now than in May/June.
   6856. jmurph Posted: February 15, 2019 at 01:53 PM (#5815701)
It seems we have a new thread.
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